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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump & Boris: Both blond, both born in New York and both under-perform in the polls
There’s a interesting post tonight by Ron Faucheux on the US site The Hill highlighting the fact that in recent primaries Donald Trump has been doing worse than the polling. He writes:
Comments
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Who has bigger hands?0
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Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.
Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.
Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*0 -
Awesome Mike. Peas in a pod.0
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Or in other words, yes, I suppose there is a common theme in the polling point. Quite stark, that 2012 chart. Ken was not as big a problem as people thought.kle4 said:Donald Trump: At least I don't under-perform downstairs, if you know what I mean.
Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.
Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*
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You really enjoyed writing this Mike.
I can tell.0 -
I think it's time for a true patriot to lead the USA personally, the time for fun and games are over Mr Trump.0
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Is Trump saying open your mouth and see if you can take my whole hand?0
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Don't you mean they overperform in the polls?0
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FPT (because I'm very interested to hear any pro-Kasich case):
Laying Kasich (for the nomination) is my main move at present. I think he has a very small chance of success and the 10/1ish odds seen today are nuts. He needs a brokered convention then the choice to light on him. I can only see that happening if there is a real surge to him in the final weeks. I don't see his chances as better than 1 in 40.Pulpstar said:
No value in Kasich. He's playing for a VP spot.Cicero said:Kasich is still in the race, is polling increasingly well, and yet is still being mostly ignored. Could he pull something off in Michigan? Is there any value at the current prices? He certainly seems a bit cheap compared to a fading Rubbio or even a Trump that the RNC would love to block at the convention, or even before if possible. Thoughts?
I would be very interested to hear arguments to the contrary, of course.0 -
In a sense, Mr Trump was talking about his ability when it comes to the 18th-century sense of the "homunculus"kle4 said:Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.
Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.
Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*0 -
Is Faucheux a real name ?0
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I don't got a pro-Kasich case, I bought at 100/1 and sold far too early a week ago when I thought his bubble was bursting -Wanderer said:FPT (because I'm very to hear any pro-Kasich case):
Laying Kasich (for the nomination) is my main move at present. I think he has a very small chance of success and the 10/1ish odds seen today are nuts. He needs a brokered convention then the choice to light on him. I can only see that happening if there is a real surge to him in the final weeks. I don't see his chances as better than 1 in 40.Pulpstar said:
No value in Kasich. He's playing for a VP spot.Cicero said:Kasich is still in the race, is polling increasingly well, and yet is still being mostly ignored. Could he pull something off in Michigan? Is there any value at the current prices? He certainly seems a bit cheap compared to a fading Rubbio or even a Trump that the RNC would love to block at the convention, or even before if possible. Thoughts?
I would be very interested to hear arguments to the contrary, of course.
but I will say that he will be so far behind Cruz in a brokered convention that it's not a credible option, unless you think Cruz will drop out -
because even if he wins Michigan and Ohio (my indicative guess would be 2/1 at the most charitable), it's hella late for momentum and you can only assume he would win about 1/3rd of remaining delegates in a 3-man race, starting from well behind0 -
I think it still makes sense to lay Boris for the leadership. He won't get into the last two unless he can persuade MPs that he is the man to entrust their destiny to and he's making a lousy job of that at the moment.0
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There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.
Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.
OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...0 -
The voice of Rod.RodCrosby said:There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.
Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.
OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...0 -
FPT:
I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.SeanT said:
Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.
You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.
This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.
Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.
Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.
That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'0 -
TBF I may disagree with Rod on quite a few things, but he is an excellent forecaster. I recall he even outperformed the legendary ARSE last May.MonikerDiCanio said:
The voice of Rod.RodCrosby said:There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.
Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.
OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...
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'In his last election outing, the 2012 mayoral election, every single poll over-stated his actual lead.'
The very same pollsters that covered themselves in glory in May last year,there's a surprise.0 -
So difficult to decide what will happen to the Trump price in the next few hours.
UP if he wins as expected in Michigan, I guess?
DOWN if he does poorly in Michigan
But is it UP or DOWN for Trump's nomination if Rubio does really poorly, and drops out before an expected humiliation in Florida? Thinking rationally, that should be worse for Trump, right? But will Joe Punter think rationally or assume that a Rubio drop-out means Trump is winning?0 -
Rod, are you still confident of a Trump win in November? Obviously the market has backed off from Trump quite a bit since Super Tuesday. Are we all fools?RodCrosby said:There's no evidence Trump has underperformed the polls, aside from perhaps Kansas.
Cruz has outperformed, by about 5 points on average.
OGH and poll analysis has always been PB's achilles heel...0 -
Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.SeanT said:
Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.
You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.
This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.
Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.
Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.
That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'
As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.
Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.
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Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....
..... and both twats0 -
And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.Roger said:Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....
..... and both twats
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Yes, both are true. And yes, banking is another very good example. My point is one cannot declare that large scale Muslim immigration is impossible to square with UK values, when one has made no attempt to enforce those values, even when transgression of them breaks the laws of the land.Cyclefree said:
Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.
As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.
Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.0 -
You can't be successful or not until you run.Cyclefree said:
And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.Roger said:Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....
..... and both twats
And Trump's now running...0 -
True I suppose but couldn't the same be said for Ken Livingstone and even Corbyn-several election victories and leader of the opposition? If election victories absolved anyone from being a twat how could we explain Michael Fabricant?Cyclefree said:
And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.Roger said:Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....
..... and both twats0 -
Maybe. But even if there were the willingness to enforce our values, I wonder whether there is the patience to wait and see whether this will be effective while at the same time continuing to permit further Muslim immigration. At some point, size matters. Not just in terms of resistance to integration or no longer needing to but also electorally. I don't, for instance, feel that Corbyn's Labour would be willing to take action against those Muslims who act contrary to British laws and values or otherwise behave in ways which we find repellent.Luckyguy1983 said:
Yes, both are true. And yes, banking is another very good example. My point is one cannot declare that large scale Muslim immigration is impossible to square with UK values, when one has made no attempt to enforce those values, even when transgression of them breaks the laws of the land.Cyclefree said:
Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.
As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.
Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.
Sometimes when you are seeking to make culture change you need also to take a pause from other change in order to stabilise the situation. You cannot have everything changing at once.
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BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid
Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-75193980 -
Well I wasn't absolving BJ from being a twat, as my post made clear.Roger said:
True I suppose but couldn't the same be said for Ken Livingstone and even Corbyn-several election victories and leader of the opposition? If election victories absolved anyone from being a twat how could we explain Michael Fabricant?Cyclefree said:
And one has been elected twice to be Mayor of London and has twice become an MP whereas the other, so far, hasn't been elected to any office. So one may be a twat, but has been rather more successfully electorally than the other.Roger said:Both blond both born in New York and both under perform in the polls.....
..... and both twats
There are plenty of idiots in Westminster. As Gore Vidal once said, even idiots deserve representation.
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Former St Helens North MP, John Evans, Lord Evans has died aged 85.0
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"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."bigjohnowls said:BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid
Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
I think it's hilarious.TheWhiteRabbit said:
"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."bigjohnowls said:BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid
Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct
Melvyn Bragg suggested something like that years ago0 -
It's not the cash, it's the loss of control they object to.TheWhiteRabbit said:
"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."bigjohnowls said:BBC set for war with Tory Government over latest budget raid
Titter BBC Tory toadying not really paying dividends.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bbc-set-war-tory-government-7519398
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.0
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Excellent idea.TheWhiteRabbit said:"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
Really good post.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.SeanT said:
Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.
You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.
This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.
Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.
Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.
That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'0 -
Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.0 -
Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?
We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.0 -
You have to wait for the polls to close first.gettingbetter said:Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.
Less than 4 hours now.
For the very first results go to Decision Desk HQ, but beware their accuracy is not great, writing down results on paper from the phone as fast as you can to beat the AP wire can result in mistakes:
http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/
Or else try CNN, they are slower but accurate:
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/mi/0 -
Thanks, I appreciate that.DavidL said:
Really good post.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
I'm sorry, I don't agree. You are still putting everything down to antecedents, when the majority of human behaviour is governed by consequences. In Rotherham, of course there were antecedents - perversion, religious ideology etc., but the main reason the situation developed as it did, was consequences - or in this case, the lack of consequences. These men were able to live out their sick fantasies (that probably became sicker with time), in the total absence of negative consequence. As were (incidentally) Jimmy Savile and others like him. The total lack of any check on behaviour is the common thread that links these awful stories.SeanT said:
Don't be stupid. It's Islam. 800 or 120 years ago it could have been Christianity.
You need the power of a fundamentalist, revelatory religion to get this power, to harness humanity in this way. A secular political ideology (e.g. Marxism) which cannot promise salvation, purpose and an afterlife pales in comparison.
This is why Christianity and Islam rule billions today whereas Nazism and Marxism are dead.
Ally religion in a fascistic, growing, supremacist mood with the power of the internet and global communications and you have modern Islamism, from ISIS to Saudi to Malaysia to Rotherham.
Imagine if every man over 6 ft tall, could push their shopping trolley past the till without paying and say 'fuck off I'm over 6ft tall'. Some of us would continue to pay 'because that's how we were brought up', but a large and steadily growing number of us (as we saw others) would take advantage. I'm not trying to absolve these men of their wicked crimes, but I am saying, that in a tragically ironic way, police inaction designed to preserve the status quo and sweep these incidents under the carpet actually metastasised this scandal. Crack down on these things hard and swift, and they won't happen in quantity - no-one bangs their head deliberately against a brick wall. The same goes for FGM.
That's why I believe we need to look to ourselves in all this. 'Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for THEE BERNARD'0 -
Hmm... So we can have another bunch of grossly overpaid Tristrams deciding at exhorbitant public expense which art project public money should be spent on? Call me unconvinced.Richard_Nabavi said:
Excellent idea.TheWhiteRabbit said:"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
You are a star Speedy. And I really appreciate your commentaries. And your views.Speedy said:
You have to wait for the polls to close first.gettingbetter said:Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.
Less than 4 hours now.
For the very first results go to Decision Desk HQ, but beware their accuracy is not great, writing down results on paper from the phone as fast as you can to beat the AP wire can result in mistakes:
http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/
Or else try CNN, they are slower but accurate:
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/mi/0 -
And my English teacher said never to start a sentence with "and".gettingbetter said:
You are a star Speedy. And I really appreciate your commentaries. And your views.Speedy said:
You have to wait for the polls to close first.gettingbetter said:Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.
Less than 4 hours now.
For the very first results go to Decision Desk HQ, but beware their accuracy is not great, writing down results on paper from the phone as fast as you can to beat the AP wire can result in mistakes:
http://www.decisiondeskhq.com/
Or else try CNN, they are slower but accurate:
http://edition.cnn.com/election/primaries/states/mi/0 -
http://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahburton/mind-if-i-comb-over#.qrrB8WDBAzAlastairMeeks said:Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?
We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.
His hair was originally light brown.
His kids from Ivana (she is blond) also betray the original hair colour of the father.0 -
lol!kle4 said:Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.
Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.
Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*0 -
AceOfSpades run a really rapid Decision Desk based on volunteers on location reporting in live.gettingbetter said:Where can we see the results of the US primary elections quickly please?
I know some kind soul posted a link to a very good website a week or two ago but I have lost it.
I have a terrible book for the Republican primary and not much better for the Presidential and I really need to know when to cut my losses to save a little bit of money as we have a baby due any day.
It's always been one of the fastest and most accurate sources of early information on the web. Beats the MSM hands down. Not sure if the tone of the site will suit you? It's perfect for me .... a mixture of rightist Republicans, Tea Partiers and libertarians.
http://ace.mu.nu/0 -
For all we know, the Donald could be bald.AlastairMeeks said:Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?
We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.0 -
We already have that. The idea is to give them some competition.DavidL said:
Hmm... So we can have another bunch of grossly overpaid Tristrams deciding at exhorbitant public expense which art project public money should be spent on? Call me unconvinced.Richard_Nabavi said:
Excellent idea.TheWhiteRabbit said:"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
One more example of pb's unparalleled political resource base.Speedy said:
http://www.buzzfeed.com/sarahburton/mind-if-i-comb-over#.qrrB8WDBAzAlastairMeeks said:Are we quite sure that Donald Trump is blond?
We could launch an expedition to settle this along with the Paddy Power pecker punt.
His hair was originally light brown.
His kids from Ivana (she is blond) also betray the original hair colour of the father.0 -
Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...0
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Muslims or no Muslims, we'd better be ready to enforce consequences, because the story of the London riots is just the same. These people were quoted as saying 'People need to understand, we can do what we like'. I do not regard the rioters, or Muslims, or anyone else, to be uniquely awful. But all of us are capable of awful behaviour if the consequences of that behaviour are more favourable than unfavourable.Cyclefree said:
Maybe. But even if there were the willingness to enforce our values, I wonder whether there is the patience to wait and see whether this will be effective while at the same time continuing to permit further Muslim immigration. At some point, size matters. Not just in terms of resistance to integration or no longer needing to but also electorally. I don't, for instance, feel that Corbyn's Labour would be willing to take action against those Muslims who act contrary to British laws and values or otherwise behave in ways which we find repellent.Luckyguy1983 said:
Yes, both are true. And yes, banking is another very good example. My point is one cannot declare that large scale Muslim immigration is impossible to square with UK values, when one has made no attempt to enforce those values, even when transgression of them breaks the laws of the land.Cyclefree said:
Both are true, no? There are reasons why some people may do bad things. If they do them and get away with them then they will carry on doing them and others will join them.
As true in banking as in Rotherham or Cologne, even if the reasons why some bankers thought their behaviour acceptable and some Muslim men thought their behaviour acceptable were different.
Either way you need to enforce consequences consistently and you need to change the culture which allows the behaviour to take root and spread. The latter is much much harder than the former, of course.
Sometimes when you are seeking to make culture change you need also to take a pause from other change in order to stabilise the situation. You cannot have everything changing at once.
To bring in our earlier discussion, it is not the disease specifically that we need worry about, but the health of the immune system to fight it. Somehow reducing numbers of Muslims (not even sure how that could even be achieved) is like wearing a mask on the tube. It might 'work' in a way, but does not address the long term health of the patient.0 -
Overrated, overpaid and over here?
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The GOP messing with the rules again ?RodCrosby said:Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...
If Romney had stayed silent no one would have known what the ultimate goal of the establishment was before it was too late, though there were plenty of hints before hand.0 -
That is fabulous.kle4 said:Donald Trump: At least I don't underperform downstairs, if you know what I mean.
Moderator: Mr Trump, the question was about tax reform.
Boris: What a bloviating homunculus, eh? Sic transit gloria mundy *falls off stage to audience applause*
What with PM Boris and President Trump (or not, as OGH sagely divines) it's like us Atlanticists are trying to get one back over Italy for Berlusconi.
Ireland should join in. None of their politicians seem particularly keen to run the country, don't they have a standby 'sleb they could pass the buck (or euro) to?0 -
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
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Bit like James II, who was intercepted by some Kent fisherman and brought back to London.. William of Orange's men had to send him off again, with a guard to make sure he got to France safely!volcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
0 -
Boris lacks Trumps modesty.0
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13 or more hours after Boris killed off that email memo, the BBC is still reporting it as a news story......0
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John Longworth is still on the broadcast media 3 days after his suspension/resignationTCPoliticalBetting said:13 or more hours after Boris killed off that email memo, the BBC is still reporting it as a news story......
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Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
0 -
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.0 -
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.0 -
For 'bankers' read anyone involved in what might be considered, by normal people, as large and/or complex finance. Perhaps it is not fair, but I imagine, yes, they would be regarded as bankers.gettingbetter said:
Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
0 -
Sorry Finance Industry to be correctgettingbetter said:
Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
0 -
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.0 -
Multiplication or extermination? I know which side my money's on.Richard_Nabavi said:
We already have that. The idea is to give them some competition.DavidL said:
Hmm... So we can have another bunch of grossly overpaid Tristrams deciding at exhorbitant public expense which art project public money should be spent on? Call me unconvinced.Richard_Nabavi said:
Excellent idea.TheWhiteRabbit said:"It is understood Mr Whittingdale is considering offering bodies such as the Arts Council the chance to bid for licence fee cash to create ‘public service’ programmes to show on BBC channels ."
Um... so the licence fee would pay for programmes direct? hardly draconian0 -
OK thanks for the clarification. It's just that if it is pejorative term used then it should be used with caution and if it is a descriptive term then it is not very specific.kle4 said:
For 'bankers' read anyone involved in what might be considered, by normal people, as large and/or complex finance. Perhaps it is not fair, but I imagine, yes, they would be regarded as bankers.gettingbetter said:
Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
0 -
The UK isn't engaged with the EU referendum.
They will think about it in June, subject to the football staying out of the way.0 -
If anyone is planning to watch the live coverage on CNN or Fox tonight through satellite, you may get an astronomical problem:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/directv-hit-outages-multiple-channels-873578
http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-directv-outages-idUKKCN0WA2J2
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/directv-woes-caused-by-whats-called-sun-transit-outage-2016-03-080 -
Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc
I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.
ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.
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It's a normal process, especially on the GOP side, and certainly happened last time. States rules are badly drafted and ambiguous, almost exclusively in relation to the rounding. However, this should result in a change of no more than +/-1 from initial projections for any candidate.Pulpstar said:
Rod, there seem to be quite a few of these. LA I think a delegate moved about or so. Is this normal process or an attempt at a background stitch up ?RodCrosby said:Looks like Trump and Cruz each lose a delegate in OK, going to Unbound...
At the last minute the RNC appears also to have outlawed superdelegates this year.
And at least two states (at this juncture) will have no primary or caucus, and their delegates will be presumably unbound.
I still can't get my head around LA though, and no figures have been provided to show why Rubio with 11% statewide obtained 28% of the CD delegates.0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Shame Carney didn't provide the pros and cons, and the long-term risks of QMV voting by the Eurozone applying rules to us that are damaging. I suppose some people might be angry that an "independent" person showed little balance to his views.
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They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.0 -
This has been a poor fortnight for Remain with serialization of Mervyn King's book predicting the implosion of the Eurozone, the UK's payment to the 6 billion euros bribe to Turkey rising to £500 millions, and migrant camps in Greece being splashed on the ITV News most nights .... and, still, Yvette Cooper has not taken in the refugee she promised during the Labour leadership campaign (deterred apparently because it was not wanted by the Conservative government!) ...0
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It's a fair point - I imagine non-bankers involved in finance are not particularly happy being associated with the general poor reputation of the banking industry. Or if they are even worse, grateful for the cover I suppose!gettingbetter said:
OK thanks for the clarification. It's just that if it is pejorative term used then it should be used with caution and if it is a descriptive term then it is not very specific.kle4 said:
For 'bankers' read anyone involved in what might be considered, by normal people, as large and/or complex finance. Perhaps it is not fair, but I imagine, yes, they would be regarded as bankers.gettingbetter said:
Are insurance clerks regarded as "bankers" now?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
0 -
I'm sure the Yazidi, women will be pleased to hear that.pinkrose said:Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc
I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.
ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.0 -
Are you saying ISIS have never raped anyone?pinkrose said:Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc
I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.
ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.0 -
I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of Englandnigel4england said:
They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.0 -
Thanks for that. So they are decent chaps after all. I have no particular objection to the stoning of child rapists, other than the general objections that I have to the death penalty:pinkrose said:Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc
I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.
ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.
a) That if new evidence comes to light that would lead to a successful appeal it would be too late
b) That to allow a proper system of justice for death penalty cases is not feasible within our legal aid budget., as it is incredibly expensive.
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Utter rot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of Englandnigel4england said:
They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.0 -
HYUFD said
'There will not be a next time if Remain win comfortably, Leave at least need to make it close (which I still think it will be no matter how inept their campaign) '
There can always be a next time even if it takes another 41 years to get there. Even a repeat of the 2 to 1 In vote achieved in 1975 would not prevent demands for another vote if events subsequently lead to claims that the British people had been conned by the Remain campaign. It really would not take much for UKIP and Tory Eurosceptics to start shouting 'We told you so!'. At the end of the day , there is no reason at all why the 2016 vote should prove any more final than its 1975 predecessor.0 -
What a crock of shit.pinkrose said:Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc
I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.
ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.
ISIS are a bunch of garden rapists. They've raped their way through Kobane and juat about every other captured town in Syria and Iraq. They even rape children and keep them as sex slaves.
Puritanical my arse. More like disaffected, unemployable bullies who only act under the banner of religion because it gives them impunity from arreat and an opportunity to exercise their sexual and twisted fantasies. Absolute scum.
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Yes, all wives and daughters have been perfectly safe in ISIS territory .... ding-dong ....pinkrose said:Islam has nothing to do with the grooming gangs that have been happening in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley, Oxford etc etc
I cannot understand how anyone arrives at the conclusion that Salafi/Wahabbi/ISIS type Muslims are in anyway the same as these vile creatures who exploited mainly white children for sex. They are chalk and cheese. Exact opposites.
ISIS/Salafi/Wahabbi types and their sympthasisers are ultra conservative, puritanical, practising Muslims who would like to see Sharia Law implemented in the UK and all over the world, indeed that is what the ISIS are currently fighting for. Those who have been convicted of child grooming and exploitation are non practising Muslims who are as far removed from the ISIS types as you can get. Under ISIS rule those men in Rotherham etc would've been stoned to death, according to the hudd (penal code) of Sharia that they are currently busily implementing.0 -
I do not agree at all - leave have no narrative of what happens on the 24th June and are morphing into their own "Project Fear' with the migrant crisis. Indeed this crisis may not be all it is made out to be for leave if they come over as non compassionate, non caring and want to close our bordersLewisDuckworth said:This has been a poor fortnight for Remain with serialization of Mervyn King's book predicting the implosion of the Eurozone, the UK's payment to the 6 billion euros bribe to Turkey rising to £500 millions, and migrant camps in Greece being splashed on the ITV News most nights .... and, still, Yvette Cooper has not taken in the refugee she promised during the Labour leadership campaign (deterred apparently because it was not wanted by the Conservative government!) ...
0 -
A heated discussion on Islam?!
Good night everybody.0 -
I doubt the average man or woman on the street has a clue who Mark Carney is. Most will simply see a rich 'American' financier in an expensive suit telling them to vote to stay in the EU, ask themselves why, and choose accordingly.nigel4england said:
Utter rot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of Englandnigel4england said:
They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.
Next to politicians, bankers remain some of the least popular people in the UK. Best to stay in the shadows.
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True. It was the BS that the Bank was neutral that annoyed me. But, maybe having been challenged in this way he may just shut the eff up for the next few months. The Mervyn quotes are more than adequate to give a contrasting view. Odd that the BBC and Peston on ITV news seem unaware of what Mervyn said....MarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Shame Carney didn't provide the pros and cons, and the long-term risks of QMV voting by the Eurozone applying rules to us that are damaging. I suppose some people might be angry that an "independent" person showed little balance to his views.
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First exit poll leaks.
3 in 4 support the muslim ban in Mississippi. 6 out of 10 in Michigan.0 -
I love it when you come over all compassionate and caring ... Like these:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do not agree at all - leave have no narrative of what happens on the 24th June and are morphing into their own "Project Fear' with the migrant crisis. Indeed this crisis may not be all it is made out to be for leave if they come over as non compassionate, non caring and want to close our bordersLewisDuckworth said:This has been a poor fortnight for Remain with serialization of Mervyn King's book predicting the implosion of the Eurozone, the UK's payment to the 6 billion euros bribe to Turkey rising to £500 millions, and migrant camps in Greece being splashed on the ITV News most nights .... and, still, Yvette Cooper has not taken in the refugee she promised during the Labour leadership campaign (deterred apparently because it was not wanted by the Conservative government!) ...
It was six months ago this week when Nicola Sturgeon heroically admitted she’d be ‘happy’ to have a refugee move into her detached Glasgow home. That same rousing week last September, we were treated to the vision of Yvette Cooper ‘bravely’ holding up a piece of A4 paper with #refugeeswelcome scrawled on it.
As he’s wont to do, Bob Geldof went one further, offering to put up three families in his pile in Kent and another in his London flat. Yet, to date, it seems that not a single refugee has been welcomed through the Chunnel and made it to Nicola’s nest, Casa Cooper or either of Geldoff’s gaffs.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/03/welcome-to-luvvie-island-a-haven-for-virtue-signalling-celebrities/0 -
I'm curious why OGH refers regularly to the 2012 election and not the 2008 election result and opinion polls which we also have information to.
First Preference share in final polls:
YouGov: Johnson 43, Livingstone 36 (lead 7)
mruk: Johnson 43, Livingstone 44 (lead -1)
Ipsos MORI: Johnson 38, Livingstone 41 (lead -3)
ICM: Johnson 42. Livingstone 41 (lead 1)
Actual result: Johnson 43.2, Livingstone 37.0 (lead 6.2)
Apart from YouGov which was a rounding error from absolutely perfect, all other polls overestimated Livingstone significantly, two underestimate Johnson and they all underestimated Johsnon's lead.
Kind of throws a spanner in the works of OGH's theory which is probably why this incovenient fact is just ignored rather than used as further evidence of the meme. "Johnson underperforms" seems to be the new "Labour crutch" meme here.0 -
Outside this forum and the Westminster Village among the day to day people who will have the deciding say it is not utter rot by any means. If you went to most any pub or football match and referred to Mervyn King they would probably want to know which team he played fornigel4england said:
Utter rot.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think many will know who Mervyn King is but they will recognise the designation of the current Governor of the Bank of Englandnigel4england said:
They only need to quote Mervyn King in the response, it's never difficult to repel a Remain claim.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Carney is ex Goldman Sachs, enough said.0 -
True. It was the BS that the Bank was neutral that annoyed me. But, maybe having been challenged in this way he may just shut the eff up for the next few months. The Mervyn quotes are more than adequate to give a contrasting view. Odd that the BBC and Peston on ITV news seem unaware of what Mervyn said....
I've listened to two longish interviews on the BBC radio with King over the last few days. Dont think he got off the fence once. His backside must be very sore. Not impressed.
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More from the exit polls:
Mississippi 44% angry, 43% dissatisfied
Michigan: 32% angry, 55% dissatisfied
Mississippi: 76% evangelicals
Michigan: 49% evangelicals
Mississippi looks more like S.Carolina, Michigan more like Virginia.0 -
unsurprising, breaks largely for Trump/CruzSpeedy said:First exit poll leaks.
3 in 4 support the muslim ban in Mississippi. 6 out of 10 in Michigan.0 -
Listened to Mervyn King on Hard Talk tonight and he was as neutral as anyone I have heardTCPoliticalBetting said:
True. It was the BS that the Bank was neutral that annoyed me. But, maybe having been challenged in this way he may just shut the eff up for the next few months. The Mervyn quotes are more than adequate to give a contrasting view. Odd that the BBC and Peston on ITV news seem unaware of what Mervyn said....MarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well is was a gift for remain as evidenced by the anger from leave and the ill considered comments by Lord LawsonMarkHopkins said:Big_G_NorthWales said:
I do agree with your comments except Mark Carney who is respected as an independent voice and his words today will be repeated ad infinitum by remainLuckyguy1983 said:
I highly doubt any of this has made any difference whatever - and that's not partisan - I highly doubt a day when Farage makes a cracker of a speech, Juncker gets a custard pie in the face, and the PM has a dreadful interview with Andrew Neil would make a difference the other way. It's Westminster bubble stuff that won't change anyone's view. Especially as far as Leave supporters go, establishment bankers and central bankers really are factored in. More likely to fire them up than change their mind.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Today was a very poor day for leave with Mark Carney's select committee appearance all but endorsing remain, Boris making a 'cock up' (his words) and Priti Patel being denounced for drawing the suffragettes into the leave side. As far as bankers are concerned the head of Lloyd' s came out very forcefully on the remain side earlier todayvolcanopete said:On the eurref I thought Leave edged it today.Labour and EU Labour in particular scored a hit for Remain on gender equality,something Farage is not well-known for,but news from the Governor that thousands of bankers would run from London is an unwanted gift to Leave.May I suggest ukip get a fleet of boats and take them across the Channel.A definite hit for Leave.However,what has swung it is that champagne will go up if we leave.Good.
Remain will still win. But not because of Emmiline Pankhurst's descendent grabbing her 15 minutes.
Propaganda usually is.
Shame Carney didn't provide the pros and cons, and the long-term risks of QMV voting by the Eurozone applying rules to us that are damaging. I suppose some people might be angry that an "independent" person showed little balance to his views.0 -
Michigan
Shares my values in the 30's
Tells it like it is 24
Change 28
Can win in november 12
37 late deciders
63 early deciders.
Look's like Trump will be in the 30's, perhaps high 30's.0
