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Oh, if it's Leave then all bets are off, because obviously we will need a different team to negotiate the new terms. But if it's Remain, I simply don't get this idea that there will be an appetite for a rerun. Voters will have spoken, the matter will be closed.HYUFD said:
As either it will be a narrow Remain in which case they will feel robbed, or it is Leave in which case they will back the best Leave candidate availableRichard_Nabavi said:
Why?HYUFD said:The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref
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Just applied for the Poole QT!0
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The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!0 -
Declaring an interest here, Crabb is my MP and Carwyn my Labour leader in Wales.
IMO Crabb is very lucky to be Sec of State. Gets elected down here because he is involved in church and lots of small groups. Likeable enough but no way PM material. Not a good debater and would flounder at the despatch box under pressure.
Never been a big fan of Carwyn, but a step above Crabb. Wish he was more forceful sometimes and lacks the personality that Rhodri had.0 -
Liam Fox's problem is that he has been Defence Minister. A senior post, of special importance to Conservative Party members.
It wasn't, shall we say, the most glittering of ministerial careers.0 -
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
http://crompton.localstats.co.uk/census-demographics/england/north-west/bolton/crompton0 -
Does Crompton constitute the whole of Northern England?foxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!0 -
Get the house on Khan for mayor then !isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!0 -
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!0 -
Then use the profit to move out of LondonPulpstar said:
Get the house on Khan for mayor then !isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!0 -
Each of twofoxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!0 -
It is this weeks sample of opinion, in real unweighted votes rather than online ranting.nigel4england said:
Does Crompton constitute the whole of Northern England?foxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
* Liz Kendall on the TW loveseat. Worth staying up for.0 -
1) He is the most prominent BREXIT backer so far, that gives him a significant constituency, unless and until someone even more prominent in the Tory party backs Leave Fox will be leader of the sceptics by defaultMortimer said:
You're missing two dynamics and getting all excited about one poll (to which you always lend as much credence as if they were actual elections, by the way.HYUFD said:
It was hardly shockingly poor to beat Ken Clarke, a former Chancellor and almost knock-out David Davis, the one-time favourite. The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even morMortimer said:
...HYUFD said:
He was just 6 votes awayMortimer said:
That was 2005.HYUFD said:
/Mortimer said:
Loose canon, mHYUFD said:
Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membershipMortimer said:
...HYUFD said:
...Mortimer said:
...HYUFD said:
...Mortimer said:
Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.HYUFD said:
LFCBLOTOMortimer said:
LFWNBPMHYUFD said:Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html
And he didn't knock Davis out.
1) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to have a popular support base and be the nominated leader of that group - Fox is not the obvious leader of the sceptics.
2) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to not be detested by other strong support bases within the party - Fox is unpopular amongst the part of the Tory party which is keener to govern and win elections, REALLY unpopular. Unpopular enough that others would do all they could to stop him getting anywhere near the final ballot.
2) Yes being loathed by the likes of Michael Heseltine torpedoed IDS' leadership campaign in 2001 didn't it! Opponents can try as hard as they like to stop Fox but with 100-150 Tory MPs likely to back BREXIT there is nothing much they can do to stop a BREXIT backer getting on the ballot paper0 -
Not my cup of tea at all, prefer Claire Perry!foxinsoxuk said:
It is this weeks sample of opinion, in real unweighted votes rather than online ranting.nigel4england said:
Does Crompton constitute the whole of Northern England?foxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
* Liz Kendall on the TW loveseat. Worth staying up for.0 -
Must be the rough valleys accent.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cold shower now!Danny565 said:Only Leanne Wood can make the term "food banks" sound sexy.
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Ugh a bunny boiler.nigel4england said:
Not my cup of tea at all, prefer Claire Perry!foxinsoxuk said:
It is this weeks sample of opinion, in real unweighted votes rather than online ranting.nigel4england said:
Does Crompton constitute the whole of Northern England?foxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
* Liz Kendall on the TW loveseat. Worth staying up for.0 -
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!0 -
Oh God, Liz Kendall is about to compare herself to Hillary Clinton.0
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Watched loads of porn though!TCPoliticalBetting said:
Ugh a bunny boiler.nigel4england said:
Not my cup of tea at all, prefer Claire Perry!foxinsoxuk said:
It is this weeks sample of opinion, in real unweighted votes rather than online ranting.nigel4england said:
Does Crompton constitute the whole of Northern England?foxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
* Liz Kendall on the TW loveseat. Worth staying up for.0 -
PB Tories 4 Wood!valleyboy said:
Must be the rough valleys accent.TheScreamingEagles said:
Cold shower now!Danny565 said:Only Leanne Wood can make the term "food banks" sound sexy.
...make of that what you will.0 -
Not quite, but that was obviously implied.RobD said:
Well, did she?Danny565 said:Oh God, Liz Kendall is about to compare herself to Hillary Clinton.
She was going on about how the wise "moderates" like Clinton and herself were too mature for the poor voters to get their little heads round, when compared to the savage "populists" who dare to offer an alternative.0 -
Heseltine was powerless by 2001.HYUFD said:Mortimer said:
1) He is the most prominent BREXIT backer so far, that gives him a significant constituency, unless and until someone even more prominent in the Tory party backs Leave Fox will be leader of the sceptics by defaultHYUFD said:
You're missing two dynamics and getting all excited about one poll (to which you always lend as much credence as if they were actual elections, by the way.Mortimer said:
It was hardly shockingly poor to beat Ken Clarke, a former Chancellor and almost knock-out David Davis, the one-time favourite. The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even morHYUFD said:
1) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to have a popular support base and be the nominated leader of that group - Fox is not the obvious leader of the sceptics.
2) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to not be detested by other strong support bases within the party - Fox is unpopular amongst the part of the Tory party which is keener to govern and win elections, REALLY unpopular. Unpopular enough that others would do all they could to stop him getting anywhere near the final ballot.
2) Yes being loathed by the likes of Michael Heseltine torpedoed IDS' leadership campaign in 2001 didn't it! Opponents can try as hard as they like to stop Fox but with 100-150 Tory MPs likely to back BREXIT there is nothing much they can do to stop a BREXIT backer getting on the ballot paper
Being unpopular with people who are SoS etc in Cabinet is entirely different.
And that is the last I will say about why Fox will never be Tory leader. You can take him on as your latest favourite if you like. It won't help him any more than it helped Burnham.0 -
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...0 -
Harry Cole ✔ @MrHarryCole
Brexit's @LiamFoxMP beating chickens in race to be next Tory leader: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6925870/Brexit-Fox-beating-chickens-in-race-to-be-next-Tory-leader.html …
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6925870/Brexit-Fox-beating-chickens-in-race-to-be-next-Tory-leader.html
On hearing the news about himself(fox) has rocketed to the top of the tory activists list for next party leader - from the article.
The right-wing stalwart refused to comment on the development tonight but Westminster allies said the Scotsman was “buoyed” by the news.
Looks like foxy might run for leader - lol0 -
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT0 -
Lower Stoke (Coventry) result:
LAB: 57.2% (+20.9)
CON: 15.9% (-18.1)
UKIP: 13.4% (-4.9)
GRN: 7.6% (+2.6)
LDEM: 5.7% (+5.7)0 -
Half the vote on half the turnout? So only 25% of those who voted kipper in May 2014 were willing to turn out again for the kippers. Faragism sweeping the nation...nigel4england said:
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT0 -
Faragism sweeping the Midlands too!Pulpstar said:Lower Stoke (Coventry) result:
LAB: 57.2% (+20.9)
CON: 15.9% (-18.1)
UKIP: 13.4% (-4.9)
GRN: 7.6% (+2.6)
LDEM: 5.7% (+5.7)0 -
As I said the referendum is much more important than the Ukip vote, if you read much into this by election that is up to you.foxinsoxuk said:
Half the vote on half the turnout? So only 25% of those who voted kipper in May 2014 were willing to turn out again for the kippers. Faragism sweeping the nation...nigel4england said:
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT
I care about coming out of the horrible EU, not the long term prospects of Ukip0 -
Like your party the limp dems.foxinsoxuk said:
Faragism sweeping the Midlands too!Pulpstar said:Lower Stoke (Coventry) result:
LAB: 57.2% (+20.9)
CON: 15.9% (-18.1)
UKIP: 13.4% (-4.9)
GRN: 7.6% (+2.6)
LDEM: 5.7% (+5.7)0 -
In both Coventry and Bolton parties supporting Remain go up, Leavers go down...nigel4england said:
As I said the referendum is much more important than the Ukip vote, if you read much into this by election that is up to you.foxinsoxuk said:
Half the vote on half the turnout? So only 25% of those who voted kipper in May 2014 were willing to turn out again for the kippers. Faragism sweeping the nation...nigel4england said:
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT
I care about coming out of the horrible EU, not the long term prospects of Ukip0 -
Lower stoke is actually a very close match for Coventry generally, demographically.0
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Good news for you and your self interest, form filling will be easy and you can bugger off to the sun.foxinsoxuk said:
In both Coventry and Bolton parties supporting Remain go up, Leavers go down...nigel4england said:
As I said the referendum is much more important than the Ukip vote, if you read much into this by election that is up to you.foxinsoxuk said:
Half the vote on half the turnout? So only 25% of those who voted kipper in May 2014 were willing to turn out again for the kippers. Faragism sweeping the nation...nigel4england said:
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT
I care about coming out of the horrible EU, not the long term prospects of Ukip0 -
Not sure Labour will be able to complete the fourfold in Eastleigh. I'd expect the Lib Dems to perhaps increase their majority though, given the fact the Docs strike is playing out to the Tories' disadvantage at the moment.0
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Lib dems sweeping Eastleigh,who would have thought ;-)Pulpstar said:Not sure Labour will be able to complete the fourfold in Eastleigh. I'd expect the Lib Dems to perhaps increase their majority though, given the fact the Docs strike is playing out to the Tories' disadvantage at the moment.
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Why would Labour split? The anti-EU segment has almost disappeared already - if all the remainder left it would be a one-day wonder.philiph said:I still think there is a chance that both Labour and conservative will split post referendum. If one starts the other could follow.
Good Labour results in today's by-elections, incidentally.0 -
Just a few of the many advantages Remaining in the EU will bring!nigel4england said:
Good news for you and your self interest, form filling will be easy and you can bugger off to the sun.foxinsoxuk said:
In both Coventry and Bolton parties supporting Remain go up, Leavers go down...nigel4england said:
As I said the referendum is much more important than the Ukip vote, if you read much into this by election that is up to you.foxinsoxuk said:
Half the vote on half the turnout? So only 25% of those who voted kipper in May 2014 were willing to turn out again for the kippers. Faragism sweeping the nation...nigel4england said:
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT
I care about coming out of the horrible EU, not the long term prospects of Ukip
Good night all.0 -
Davies was not a candidate - I think Davis was though!Mortimer said:
Losing to Davies is pretty shockingly poor.HYUFD said:
He was just 6 votes awayMortimer said:
That was 2005.HYUFD said:
He very nearly knocked out Davis in the final round and he never went to the membership but would have likely given Cameron a closer race according to polls at the timeMortimer said:
Loose canon, managed to get sacked very soon after the coalition took office.HYUFD said:
Evidence? He is probably popular enough to get into the final 2, especially if there is a strong Leave vote and he is popular with the membershipMortimer said:
WikiBot HYUFD strikes again.HYUFD said:
Fox was already a strong 3rd amongst MPs in 2005 with 51 Tory MPs backing him and almost pipped Davis for the run-off, the parliamentary party is now even more euroscepticMortimer said:
No - he wont.HYUFD said:
It depends on EUref, if it is Remain I would agree Fox is unlikely to be the next leader, though if it is close he will be a contendor, if it is Leave he becomes the favouriteMortimer said:
Nah - he has been in the public eye, and mostly for the wrong reasons, for too long.HYUFD said:
LFCBLOTOMortimer said:
LFWNBPMHYUFD said:Liam Fox tops the latest ConservativeHome next leaders' poll for the first time, he gets 20.89% of Tory members' votes, Theresa May 20.60%, Boris Johnson 18.60% and George Osborne 14.88%
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2016/02/fox-tops-our-next-leader-poll-but-with-the-joint-lowest-frontrunner-share-on-record.html
I'd be surprised if he made it to 4th or 5th in the MPs contest.
That is the past.
Fox is not popular amongst the parliamentary Party.
Plus, most of the Parly party only know him as a leadership contest loser. In the Tory party today, that sticks.
And he didn't knock Davis out.
You don't seem to have an understanding of the dynamics of political parties. Are you a member of any?0 -
@Involved in the church'? That sounds highly hypocritical for a rightwing Tory to say the least! He clearly fails to practise what he preaches.valleyboy said:Declaring an interest here, Crabb is my MP and Carwyn my Labour leader in Wales.
IMO Crabb is very lucky to be Sec of State. Gets elected down here because he is involved in church and lots of small groups. Likeable enough but no way PM material. Not a good debater and would flounder at the despatch box under pressure.
Never been a big fan of Carwyn, but a step above Crabb. Wish he was more forceful sometimes and lacks the personality that Rhodri had.0 -
Heseltine was one of the biggest Tory beasts in the jungle and IDS was also unpopular with the likes of Maude and Portillo etc who were prominent figures in the Tory Party at the time and had been in Hague's Shadow Cabinet. Fox would be the activists choice, Burnham was a good choice for the general election but the activists wanted Corbyn. As I said Fox's chances are tied to EUref, the higher the Leave vote, the better his prospects. GoodnightMortimer said:
Heseltine was powerless by 2001.HYUFD said:Mortimer said:
1) He is the most prominent BREXIT backer so far, that gives him a significant constituency, unless and until someone even more prominent in the Tory party backs Leave Fox will be leader of the sceptics by defaultHYUFD said:
You're missing two dynamics and getting all excited about one poll (to which you always lend as much credence as if they were actual elections, by the way.Mortimer said:
It was hardly shockingly poor to beat Ken Clarke, a former Chancellor and almost knock-out David Davis, the one-time favourite. The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even morHYUFD said:
1) To win a party leadership election such as in the Tory party you need to have a popular support base and be the nominated leader of that group - Fox is not the obvious leader of the sceptics.
2) Yes being loathed by the likes of Michael Heseltine torpedoed IDS' leadership campaign in 2001 didn't it! Opponents can try as hard as they like to stop Fox but with 100-150 Tory MPs likely to back BREXIT there is nothing much they can do to stop a BREXIT backer getting on the ballot paper
Being unpopular with people who are SoS etc in Cabinet is entirely different.
And that is the last I will say about why Fox will never be Tory leader. You can take him on as your latest favourite if you like. It won't help him any more than it helped Burnham.0 -
Did he not go to Dubai on defence matters with advisor ?Richard_Nabavi said:Liam Fox's problem is that he has been Defence Minister. A senior post, of special importance to Conservative Party members.
It wasn't, shall we say, the most glittering of ministerial careers.0 -
Lib Dems beating UKIP ! UKIP didn't even last until the ref !TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Not just Dubai:surbiton said:
Did he not go to Dubai on defence matters with advisor ?Richard_Nabavi said:Liam Fox's problem is that he has been Defence Minister. A senior post, of special importance to Conservative Party members.
It wasn't, shall we say, the most glittering of ministerial careers.
Between February 2009 and 2011 Werritty was in Fox's company on many trips abroad:
Israel, February 2009.
Singapore, 4–6 June 2010.
Dubai, 7–8 June 2010.
Florida, 2–3 July 2010.
Dubai, 6–8 August 2010.
Washington DC September 2010
Bahrain, 2–6 December 2010.
Dubai, 17–22 December 2010.
Hong Kong, 16–23 January 2011.
Israel, 6–7 February.
Switzerland, 17–21 February.
Dubai, April 2011.
Abu Dhabi, 14–18 April 2011.
Florida/Washington, 22–25 May 2011.
Hong Kong, 31 May – 1 June 2011.
Singapore, 2–6 June 2011.
Sri Lanka, July 2011.
Dubai, 17 June 2011.
Washington DC, 30 June – 3 July 2011.
Spain, 5–9 August.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Werritty
And there'll always be the photos......of the scrapped Nimrods (almost certainly the correct decision, but it still 'looks bad')0 -
Mail Online:
"David Cameron’s ‘thin gruel’ EU referendum deal has been watered down even further, according to documents leaked last night.
The Prime Minister’s draft agreement with Brussels had already been condemned as ‘feeble’ by Tory backbenchers. But No 10’s hopes of bolstering the deal ahead of next week’s summit were dashed by an updated version which critics say is even worse."
Oh Dear ...... has it just become even worse for Cameron?0 -
It was unlikely that the Mail would find anything in the EU deal to cheer......what's worse - a parachute with one hole in it, or one with two?peter_from_putney said:Mail Online:
"David Cameron’s ‘thin gruel’ EU referendum deal has been watered down even further, according to documents leaked last night.
The Prime Minister’s draft agreement with Brussels had already been condemned as ‘feeble’ by Tory backbenchers. But No 10’s hopes of bolstering the deal ahead of next week’s summit were dashed by an updated version which critics say is even worse."
Oh Dear ...... has it just become even worse for Cameron?0 -
Fail to see how this is a massive shock since its in the kipper manifesto.foxinsoxuk said:
He was banging on about controlling borders and tariffs. That means not being in the EEA.TheScreamingEagles said:
Really?Pulpstar said:Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.
TO REFORM OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM UKIP WILL:
• Take back control of our borders
• Put a five-year moratorium on immigration for unskilled workers,
which will enable the unemployed already living here to find work and
those already working to see wage growth
• Introduce an Australian-style points based system to manage the
number and skills of people coming into the country, treating all
citizens of the world on a fair and equal basis as a welcoming,
outward-looking country
0 -
How can you 'introduce' a system that is already in place, and has been, since 2008?Indigo said:
• Introduce an Australian-style points based systemfoxinsoxuk said:
He was banging on about controlling borders and tariffs. That means not being in the EEA.TheScreamingEagles said:
Really?Pulpstar said:Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.
0 -
If Remain wins but the their campaign promises are quickly proven false,(e.g, the next EU treaty commits all member states to full union by 2050) they'll be accused of campaigning in bad faith, cheating their way to victory.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, if it's Leave then all bets are off, because obviously we will need a different team to negotiate the new terms. But if it's Remain, I simply don't get this idea that there will be an appetite for a rerun. Voters will have spoken, the matter will be closed.HYUFD said:
As either it will be a narrow Remain in which case they will feel robbed, or it is Leave in which case they will back the best Leave candidate availableRichard_Nabavi said:
Why?HYUFD said:The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref
If this happens, and the Remain margin of victory is narrow, say under 5%, expect loud calls to rerun the referendum, this time with both sides campaigning honestly.0 -
Betfair EUREF vote share market finally up;
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.1229813770 -
Exactly. So not compatible with membership of the EEA, which is what the original point was.Indigo said:
Fail to see how this is a massive shock since its in the kipper manifesto.foxinsoxuk said:
He was banging on about controlling borders and tariffs. That means not being in the EEA.TheScreamingEagles said:
Really?Pulpstar said:Farage advocating leaving the EEA as well as EU.
TO REFORM OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM UKIP WILL:
• Take back control of our borders
• Put a five-year moratorium on immigration for unskilled workers,
which will enable the unemployed already living here to find work and
those already working to see wage growth
• Introduce an Australian-style points based system to manage the
number and skills of people coming into the country, treating all
citizens of the world on a fair and equal basis as a welcoming,
outward-looking country0 -
Faragism sweeping the nation once more!surbiton said:
Lib Dems beating UKIP ! UKIP didn't even last until the ref !TheScreamingEagles said:
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If, as it seems, the latest changes have put the City offside, then much worse.peter_from_putney said:Mail Online:
"David Cameron’s ‘thin gruel’ EU referendum deal has been watered down even further, according to documents leaked last night.
The Prime Minister’s draft agreement with Brussels had already been condemned as ‘feeble’ by Tory backbenchers. But No 10’s hopes of bolstering the deal ahead of next week’s summit were dashed by an updated version which critics say is even worse."
Oh Dear ...... has it just become even worse for Cameron?0 -
UKIP down about 10% in each of Hounslow, Coventry and Bolton results.
LibDems up around 5.5% in two and 0.5% in the other.
Con roughly the same.
Lab up 10.5% in two, 0.3% in the third.
https://twitter.com/britainelects0 -
The Tory Party seems to be gathering for a "love-in" !
Don't worry, Dave ! The Socialists are with you.0 -
Apparently, it is all the fault of Muslims !logical_song said:UKIP down about 10% in each of Hounslow, Coventry and Bolton results.
LibDems up around 5.5% in two and 0.5% in the other.
Con roughly the same.
Lab up 10.5% in two, 0.3% in the third.
https://twitter.com/britainelects0 -
A reasonable comparison. They are both rude, arrogant, self-centred, have a long track record of failure, female, and get walloped by geriatric socialists who inspire messianic fervour in the party's activist base.Danny565 said:Oh God, Liz Kendall is about to compare herself to Hillary Clinton.
I doubt if that was what she meant, of course!
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a parachute with no hole in it?CarlottaVance said:
It was unlikely that the Mail would find anything in the EU deal to cheer......what's worse - a parachute with one hole in it, or one with two?peter_from_putney said:Mail Online:
"David Cameron’s ‘thin gruel’ EU referendum deal has been watered down even further, according to documents leaked last night.
The Prime Minister’s draft agreement with Brussels had already been condemned as ‘feeble’ by Tory backbenchers. But No 10’s hopes of bolstering the deal ahead of next week’s summit were dashed by an updated version which critics say is even worse."
Oh Dear ...... has it just become even worse for Cameron?0 -
This is music to my ears. The Tory Party will never be reconciled to a REMAIN win !Robert_Of_Sheffield said:
If Remain wins but the their campaign promises are quickly proven false,(e.g, the next EU treaty commits all member states to full union by 2050) they'll be accused of campaigning in bad faith, cheating their way to victory.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, if it's Leave then all bets are off, because obviously we will need a different team to negotiate the new terms. But if it's Remain, I simply don't get this idea that there will be an appetite for a rerun. Voters will have spoken, the matter will be closed.HYUFD said:
As either it will be a narrow Remain in which case they will feel robbed, or it is Leave in which case they will back the best Leave candidate availableRichard_Nabavi said:
Why?HYUFD said:The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref
If this happens, and the Remain margin of victory is narrow, say under 5%, expect loud calls to rerun the referendum, this time with both sides campaigning honestly.0 -
They can afford not to be, as they're the only show in town.surbiton said:
This is music to my ears. The Tory Party will never be reconciled to a REMAIN win !Robert_Of_Sheffield said:
If Remain wins but the their campaign promises are quickly proven false,(e.g, the next EU treaty commits all member states to full union by 2050) they'll be accused of campaigning in bad faith, cheating their way to victory.Richard_Nabavi said:
Oh, if it's Leave then all bets are off, because obviously we will need a different team to negotiate the new terms. But if it's Remain, I simply don't get this idea that there will be an appetite for a rerun. Voters will have spoken, the matter will be closed.HYUFD said:
As either it will be a narrow Remain in which case they will feel robbed, or it is Leave in which case they will back the best Leave candidate availableRichard_Nabavi said:
Why?HYUFD said:The Tory membership is eurosceptic and will become even more eurosceptic post EU ref
If this happens, and the Remain margin of victory is narrow, say under 5%, expect loud calls to rerun the referendum, this time with both sides campaigning honestly.
Hopefully, the issue won't arise, if Leave win.0 -
i doubt if one can read very much into a couple of local elections, in terms of the EU referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
In both Coventry and Bolton parties supporting Remain go up, Leavers go down...nigel4england said:
As I said the referendum is much more important than the Ukip vote, if you read much into this by election that is up to you.foxinsoxuk said:
Half the vote on half the turnout? So only 25% of those who voted kipper in May 2014 were willing to turn out again for the kippers. Faragism sweeping the nation...nigel4england said:
Half the turnout would not have helped. I have lost enthusiasm for Ukip, for me the GE is four years away and the most important thing is the referendum.foxinsoxuk said:
Since May 2014?nigel4england said:
White flight is the term you are looking for.foxinsoxuk said:
UKIP got 21% in 2014, 10% tonight.isam said:
I would have thought corbynism goes down very well In areas with huge muslim populations like Crompton, and Farage goes down like cold sickfoxinsoxuk said:
The vote has gone down by half.isam said:
Crompton had three times the amount of Asians than the Bolton average in 2007, I shouldn't think it has decreasedfoxinsoxuk said:
That northern WWC just loves dem kippers doesn't it?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://www.bolton.gov.uk/sites/DocumentCentre/Documents/Crompton PDF.pdf
Yet we are told that Corbyn goes down in Northern England like a cup of cold sick while Faragism sweeps the nation. Colour me a little sceptical!
Do muslims breed that fast? Or is it that UKIP are flopping here? It looks like the latter to me!
Or is it that the people have seen through the kippers...
Having said that Farage was good on QT
I care about coming out of the horrible EU, not the long term prospects of Ukip0 -
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Why would anybody listen to an "erratic Marxist"? At least Corbyn isn't erratic.dugarbandier said:
Well, OK, apart from on defence..0 -
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I don't think he'd be thrilled to be called either. But modern socialism doesn't actually have much more than a name link to Marxism. It owes a lot more to Stalinism.MarqueeMark said:
Why would anybody listen to an "erratic Marxist"? At least Corbyn isn't erratic.dugarbandier said:
Well, OK, apart from on defence..
He is however undoubtedly erratic, and not just on defence. Who could forget his positions on collective responsibility and cabinet reshuffles a mere six weeks after he flip-flopped on the subject?0
This discussion has been closed.