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Yes crimes committed by criminals is the connection.blackburn63 said:
I suspect you're deliberately missing the point, I'm sure you can find a connection between the perpetrators in Cologne and Rotherham. You might be pleased that more of them are heading this way with EU passports, I think it's reasonable to have concerns.madasafish said:
But leaving the EU does not alter the fact that Rotherham sex attacks were second generation - or third generation - immigrants. So not immigrants at all.blackburn63 said:
The truth is often unpalatable. Take a look at Rotherham if you need confirmation, the PM today touches on but skirts around cultural differences that have no place in our society.NorfolkTilIDie said:
And from a Pakistani origin - so leaving the EU will have zero impact on immigration from Pakistan.
So the article is bollox.0 -
Few emigrate from Germany and they do not qualify for passports for some time. You are missing the point about their origin.blackburn63 said:
I suspect you're deliberately missing the point, I'm sure you can find a connection between the perpetrators in Cologne and Rotherham. You might be pleased that more of them are heading this way with EU passports, I think it's reasonable to have concerns.madasafish said:
But leaving the EU does not alter the fact that Rotherham sex attacks were second generation - or third generation - immigrants. So not immigrants at all.blackburn63 said:
The truth is often unpalatable. Take a look at Rotherham if you need confirmation, the PM today touches on but skirts around cultural differences that have no place in our society.NorfolkTilIDie said:
And from a Pakistani origin - so leaving the EU will have zero impact on immigration from Pakistan.
So the article is bollox.
Trade deal with the EU would not alter the free movement issue in any event. I suggest you find another planet to live on.0 -
Worrying news from the tennis tour: Novak Djokovic says his people were approached with a $200,000 offer to throw a match in Russia in 2007.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/novakdjokovic/12105023/Novak-Djokovic-reveals-he-was-offered-cash-to-fix-match.html
Tip of the iceberg for sports betting?0 -
Yes but I'm sure you can find a connection of another kind, or do you still have your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears?Philip_Thompson said:
Yes crimes committed by criminals is the connection.blackburn63 said:
I suspect you're deliberately missing the point, I'm sure you can find a connection between the perpetrators in Cologne and Rotherham. You might be pleased that more of them are heading this way with EU passports, I think it's reasonable to have concerns.madasafish said:
But leaving the EU does not alter the fact that Rotherham sex attacks were second generation - or third generation - immigrants. So not immigrants at all.blackburn63 said:
The truth is often unpalatable. Take a look at Rotherham if you need confirmation, the PM today touches on but skirts around cultural differences that have no place in our society.NorfolkTilIDie said:
And from a Pakistani origin - so leaving the EU will have zero impact on immigration from Pakistan.
So the article is bollox.
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English should be a requirement for immigrants. If people don't speak English, then there should be no access to state services - particularly the NHS and so forth. If Mrs Abramovich doesn't speak English, but has her own private Doctor/Bupa platinum then that is fine with me. Obviously this doesn't apply to the vast majority of would be/immigrants. There are plenty enough of willing and able English speaking migrants wanting to come here anyway !0
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Indeed. As I read it, most of the poor souls congregated in Calais, on various Balkan borders and outside the Spanish N African enclaves (see BBC last night) have no connection whatsoever wth the EU. In fact, leaving the EU might actually make our situation worse as the French would have no reason to give us any assistance.madasafish said:
But leaving the EU does not alter the fact that Rotherham sex attacks were second generation - or third generation - immigrants. So not immigrants at all.blackburn63 said:
The truth is often unpalatable. Take a look at Rotherham if you need confirmation, the PM today touches on but skirts around cultural differences that have no place in our society.NorfolkTilIDie said:
And from a Pakistani origin - so leaving the EU will have zero impact on immigration from Pakistan.
So the article is bollox.
Conflating East European worker immigration ....often short-term immigration ...... with migrants from the Middle East or Africa appears to be a ploy by some of the wilder elements of Leave, without any basis in fact.0 -
I'd say that's considerable improvement, you waited until your final sentence before you insulted me, keep it up.flightpath01 said:
Few emigrate from Germany and they do not qualify for passports for some time. You are missing the point about their origin.blackburn63 said:
I suspect you're deliberately missing the point, I'm sure you can find a connection between the perpetrators in Cologne and Rotherham. You might be pleased that more of them are heading this way with EU passports, I think it's reasonable to have concerns.madasafish said:
But leaving the EU does not alter the fact that Rotherham sex attacks were second generation - or third generation - immigrants. So not immigrants at all.blackburn63 said:
The truth is often unpalatable. Take a look at Rotherham if you need confirmation, the PM today touches on but skirts around cultural differences that have no place in our society.NorfolkTilIDie said:
And from a Pakistani origin - so leaving the EU will have zero impact on immigration from Pakistan.
So the article is bollox.
Trade deal with the EU would not alter the free movement issue in any event. I suggest you find another planet to live on.
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Tennis authorities are particularly sanctimoniously patronising when it comes to denying PEDs. They used to claim tennis players wouldn't benefit from endurance boosts as they didn't run around that much during a match.AlastairMeeks said:
Which major sport doesn't have a problem with one or other or both of these?Alistair said:
Well, at least tennis has got a second thing to be in denial about after PED use now.TheScreamingEagles said:Secret files exposing evidence of widespread suspected match fixing at the top level of world tennis, including at Wimbledon, can be revealed by the BBC and BuzzFeed News.
Over the last decade 16 players who have ranked in the top 50 have been repeatedly flagged to the tennis integrity unit over suspicions they have thrown matches.
All of the players, including winners of Grand Slam titles, were allowed to continue competing.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/353192020 -
We have been saying that on here for months now, good to see it getting through to the MPs slowly. But it requires 120 MPs to agree to jump together, not just resigning the whip but actually setting up a formal SDP2.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
My knowledge isn't particularly deep, but my interest gets piqued when pols start repeating a particular statistic in isolation.TOPPING said:
No idea. A whining doctor said it was five years old but didn't mention whether its findings had conclusively been refuted.Theuniondivvie said:
Do they refer to the English study up to 2010, the Welsh one up to 2012, or do they have something more recent?TOPPING said:
Jump onto the radio iplayer and listen to "More or Less" on R4 from 17 Jan.Theuniondivvie said:
20% more likely to die from a stroke at the weekend? Hmm..TOPPING said:Dave playing super straight bat atm. Doing it well IMO.
If you know more than me (sounds like it) I would be interested in your thoughts.
Afaics the 20% claim is based on old studies and there seems to have been a big improvement in rapid treatment of strokes over the last few years. There are fewer stroke admissions at the weekend and they tend to be more serious strokes. One of the possible factors in the outcomes for weekend stroke treatment is patients being less likely to receive a same-day brain scan, which I assume has little to do with junior doctors.
In any case we're in the land of lies & damn lies. The government seems to think this 20% soundbite is an effective wedge with which to prise away public support from junior doctors; I guess we'll see if that's the case.0 -
In that case, I wonder if it might not be Theresa May. I think she'll wait until the outcome of the renegotiation.AlastairMeeks said:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fecf162-bd18-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3xaSjBd8B
"The campaign to leave the European Union will be led by a Tory cabinet minister, former chancellor Lord Lawson said, as a new poll gave a six-point lead to the “Out” side.
The peer, who is president of Conservatives for Britain, a Eurosceptic group, said on Sunday he would not reveal the identity of the senior minister but it would emerge “in due course”."
I very much doubt it will be either IDS or Grayling. It obviously can't be Fox.
It could be Theresa Villiers, Whittingdale or Patel. Javid perhaps if Osborne is being particularly canny and has given him licence to dissent.
Or possibly even Greg Hands..0 -
@hugorifkind: I hereby coin the term "Corbynterpretation" to refer to the endless debate, after Corbyn says anything, over what he was actually on about.0
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@Maomentum_: Thornberry/ Livingstone defence review will be titled Nuclear Vasectomy I am told.0
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What a cry baby you are.Dair said:
Ah the usual disingenuous rubbish.flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Norway have by far the highest military budget of similar sized nations. Norway have the luxury of spending whatever they want as being Independent and allowed to keep their own wealth, they became the richest country in the world (excluding micro-states).
Compared to Ireland, the SNP was proposing a spend of over 150% of the Irish level, on par, IIRC, with Denmark. Of course there is a great deal to be said for the Icelandic model of spending Zero on defence.
Your last sentence shows you to be disingenuous. Your previous verbage shows you to be in denial. Scotland is part of the UK and has been for longer than Norway has been in existence and as such it has, unlike Norway been protected from invasion by the rest of the uk.
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The very top people won't be involved I suspect, Djokovic and Federer hae plenty of money and legacy is far more important to them. What is $200,000 vs their reputation to them ?Sandpit said:Worrying news from the tennis tour: Novak Djokovic says his people were approached with a $200,000 offer to throw a match in Russia in 2007.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/novakdjokovic/12105023/Novak-Djokovic-reveals-he-was-offered-cash-to-fix-match.html
Tip of the iceberg for sports betting?
Personally my money would be on some of the Russian players in the top 50, especially given their recent shenanigans in athletics. Also the lower ranked players methinks are easier targets as the bribery money means more to them, and if you lose to Djoko/Fed then noone will bat an eyelid anyway.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/singles "Teymuraz Gabashvili" would probably have low odds (44th rank; Russian).0 -
Mr. Sandpit, I'll believe it when I see it.0
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Important distinction between grouping and party. I presume a party would have to register with the electoral commission?TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/689011790072680448
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Pedant hat on: 500% too small would imply that they were proposing a negative number of planes...flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
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I hate George Pascoe-Watson. He's only gone and used the classical history reference I was planning to use.
Students of history remember that it was King Pyrrhus of Epirus whose army was devastated as it defeated the Romans at Heraclea and Asculum during the Pyrrhic War.
David Cameron and the older figures in his Cabinet are acutely conscious of this lesson from the Ancients. And it’s guiding the way the Premier deals with the sensitivities of the forthcoming EU referendum.
It would be easy for the PM to emerge victorious in his efforts to keep Britain in the EU, but leading a deeply divided and ungovernable Conservative Party. The lessons of a much more recent strategic disaster in Tory history are looming large.
http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/455521/cameron-has-donned-kid-gloves-for-his-fight-with-tory-eurosceptics.thtml …0 -
I suggest they go for New Labour.RobD said:
Important distinction between grouping and party. I presume a party would have to register with the electoral commission?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It'll be interesting to see if he reported it. If not, why not? And if he did, what happened to his complaint?Sandpit said:Worrying news from the tennis tour: Novak Djokovic says his people were approached with a $200,000 offer to throw a match in Russia in 2007.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/novakdjokovic/12105023/Novak-Djokovic-reveals-he-was-offered-cash-to-fix-match.html
Tip of the iceberg for sports betting?0 -
New Labour (War Criminals) Party, you mean?TheScreamingEagles said:
I suggest they go for New Labour.RobD said:
Important distinction between grouping and party. I presume a party would have to register with the electoral commission?TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/689011790072680448
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500 was vaguely alliterative with 50.Fysics_Teacher said:
Pedant hat on: 500% too small would imply that they were proposing a negative number of planes...flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat0 -
Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.0 -
I've just come up with a new betting market.RobD said:
New Labour (War Criminals) Party, you mean?TheScreamingEagles said:
I suggest they go for New Labour.RobD said:
Important distinction between grouping and party. I presume a party would have to register with the electoral commission?TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/689011790072680448
At the next election will Labour have fewer MPs than Tony Blair's majority in 1997.
So will Corbyn's Labour be able to get 179 MPs?0 -
I suggest 'Hard Labour'0
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The way things are at the moment, Labour poses as much of a threat to the Tories during their divisions over Europe as Persia did during Rome's civil wars following the death of Caesar.TheScreamingEagles said:I hate George Pascoe-Watson. He's only gone and used the classical history reference I was planning to use.
Students of history remember that it was King Pyrrhus of Epirus whose army was devastated as it defeated the Romans at Heraclea and Asculum during the Pyrrhic War.
David Cameron and the older figures in his Cabinet are acutely conscious of this lesson from the Ancients. And it’s guiding the way the Premier deals with the sensitivities of the forthcoming EU referendum.
It would be easy for the PM to emerge victorious in his efforts to keep Britain in the EU, but leading a deeply divided and ungovernable Conservative Party. The lessons of a much more recent strategic disaster in Tory history are looming large.
http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/455521/cameron-has-donned-kid-gloves-for-his-fight-with-tory-eurosceptics.thtml …0 -
They would essentially all be deselecting themselves. They can't expect to go to the House of Commons to represent their own "grouping", and yet still try to have it both ways by getting the party endorsement, funds and canvassing efforts when it comes to the election.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
As a bettor, I don't think you need to worry too much about match fixing, or even doping - just be aware that it might be about. Indeed you might be backing the opponent of the chap who is throwing the match or the doper himself *Cough Broady's ton *Cough**.
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True LabourTheScreamingEagles said:I suggest they go for New Labour.
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More Absentee LabourPatrick said:
I suggest 'Hard Labour'
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I am afraid I view all sports results with some scepticism these days. Tournament hosts rigged, national and international bodies corrupt, matches thrown, competitors drugged. Clearly Russia must be viewed as one of the most corrupt culprits. The time to label it a pariah state is long overdue.Pulpstar said:
The very top people won't be involved I suspect, Djokovic and Federer hae plenty of money and legacy is far more important to them. What is $200,000 vs their reputation to them ?Sandpit said:Worrying news from the tennis tour: Novak Djokovic says his people were approached with a $200,000 offer to throw a match in Russia in 2007.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/tennis/novakdjokovic/12105023/Novak-Djokovic-reveals-he-was-offered-cash-to-fix-match.html
Tip of the iceberg for sports betting?
Personally my money would be on some of the Russian players in the top 50, especially given their recent shenanigans in athletics. Also the lower ranked players methinks are easier targets as the bribery money means more to them, and if you lose to Djoko/Fed then noone will bat an eyelid anyway.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/en/rankings/singles "Teymuraz Gabashvili" would probably have low odds (44th rank; Russian).0 -
I think pensions is a head issue not a heart one. For many, whether out of denial or otherwise, pensions is something that other people have and do and that "something will turn up/euromillions" is the better option in the meanwhile.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
@Theuniondivvie listen to the programme. You will be surprised. It was a study, whichever or whenever it was, and no "oh things are much better now" really could or should negate, you know, a study.
More or Less is a great programme and usually doesn't shirk from probing and often dismantling prevailing myths. I think it probably tried to do that with the 20%/stroke stat (it has certainly done it about weekend mortality in general) but sadly found that it was accurate.
Is the fact that you are 20% more likely to die if you are admitted to hospital at the weekend with a stroke sufficient to determine the outcome of the junior doctors' dispute? Probably not, but it is all part of the 7-day NHS story so Cam can be forgiven for using it.0 -
The pollsters are struggling because we live in a society where expressing the wrong opinion can end your career or get you jail time.
In public, people are much more guarded about their political opinions than they ever were.
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Is this the same Lord Lawson that secretly shadowed the deuchmark?Casino_Royale said:
In that case, I wonder if it might not be Theresa May. I think she'll wait until the outcome of the renegotiation.AlastairMeeks said:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fecf162-bd18-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3xaSjBd8B
"The campaign to leave the European Union will be led by a Tory cabinet minister, former chancellor Lord Lawson said, as a new poll gave a six-point lead to the “Out” side.
The peer, who is president of Conservatives for Britain, a Eurosceptic group, said on Sunday he would not reveal the identity of the senior minister but it would emerge “in due course”."
I very much doubt it will be either IDS or Grayling. It obviously can't be Fox.
It could be Theresa Villiers, Whittingdale or Patel. Javid perhaps if Osborne is being particularly canny and has given him licence to dissent.
Or possibly even Greg Hands..0 -
Second(ary) Strike Labour.Scott_P said:
True LabourTheScreamingEagles said:I suggest they go for New Labour.
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Mr. Herdson, Parthians*. Persians (the second time) came after.
And the Parthians did actually give the Romans some significant trouble, as well as causing a substantial downturn in Crassus' political career.
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Hugo should have gone with the Corbynquisition....Scott_P said:@hugorifkind: I hereby coin the term "Corbynterpretation" to refer to the endless debate, after Corbyn says anything, over what he was actually on about.
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I've got a Battle of Thermoplyae analogy coming up with the anti Corbynites PLP as The Spartans and Corbyn as Xerxes I.david_herdson said:
The way things are at the moment, Labour poses as much of a threat to the Tories during their divisions over Europe as Persia did during Rome's civil wars following the death of Caesar.TheScreamingEagles said:I hate George Pascoe-Watson. He's only gone and used the classical history reference I was planning to use.
Students of history remember that it was King Pyrrhus of Epirus whose army was devastated as it defeated the Romans at Heraclea and Asculum during the Pyrrhic War.
David Cameron and the older figures in his Cabinet are acutely conscious of this lesson from the Ancients. And it’s guiding the way the Premier deals with the sensitivities of the forthcoming EU referendum.
It would be easy for the PM to emerge victorious in his efforts to keep Britain in the EU, but leading a deeply divided and ungovernable Conservative Party. The lessons of a much more recent strategic disaster in Tory history are looming large.
http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/455521/cameron-has-donned-kid-gloves-for-his-fight-with-tory-eurosceptics.thtml …
Just haven't worked out who is Aspamitres the Eunuch0 -
This fantasy "risk of invasion" just highlights the nonsense your are spewing.flightpath01 said:
What a cry baby you are.Dair said:
Ah the usual disingenuous rubbish.flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Norway have by far the highest military budget of similar sized nations. Norway have the luxury of spending whatever they want as being Independent and allowed to keep their own wealth, they became the richest country in the world (excluding micro-states).
Compared to Ireland, the SNP was proposing a spend of over 150% of the Irish level, on par, IIRC, with Denmark. Of course there is a great deal to be said for the Icelandic model of spending Zero on defence.
Your last sentence shows you to be disingenuous. Your previous verbage shows you to be in denial. Scotland is part of the UK and has been for longer than Norway has been in existence and as such it has, unlike Norway been protected from invasion by the rest of the uk.
The reality is that we know, factually, what sort of military budget a West European country of Scotland's size would have and on average it is comparable to the SNP's proposals.
You didn't accidentally pick Norway, you picked the country with the highest militay spend per capita in Europe. You deliberately picked a country to make a point which was simply not true. You choose it to construct a lie about the SNP and Scotland.0 -
In that Comres poll the answer to the question 'what do you think most people will do on the EU referendum , the old by some margin believed people would vote to leave, while the young believed people would vote to stay:blackburn63 said:
You make a very good point, for this reason I'd say the Out vote is underestimated.CarlottaVance said:
Yes, but not in the way many (on the left) have meant it before, for them 'shy' = 'ashamed to admit to being', while this suggests 'shy' = 'value personal privacy' - and that could be true of many (typically older) 'small 'c' conservatives of other parties too.peter_from_putney said:Isn't this simply another round about way of stating that shy Tories really do exist?
And then, having not told opinion pollsters how they feel, what do the bustards do?
Go out and vote, in their droves.
While the mouthy 'share everything' younger folks may think tweeting about it is as important as actually casting a ballot.....so don't......
So its potentially a 'double whammy' - those least likely to talk about it are most likely to vote - while the most talkative are less likely to turnout on the day.....
Net 'Leave': +19 / -380 -
...and I'm thinking Few Labour.....0
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....and when they finally kick out Corbyn, Phew Labour.....0
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'It could be Theresa Villiers'
God help us if so - if ever there was an overpromoted non-entity...0 -
Does Mexico's trade deal with the EU include free movement?flightpath01 said:
Few emigrate from Germany and they do not qualify for passports for some time. You are missing the point about their origin.blackburn63 said:
I suspect you're deliberately missing the point, I'm sure you can find a connection between the perpetrators in Cologne and Rotherham. You might be pleased that more of them are heading this way with EU passports, I think it's reasonable to have concerns.madasafish said:
But leaving the EU does not alter the fact that Rotherham sex attacks were second generation - or third generation - immigrants. So not immigrants at all.blackburn63 said:
The truth is often unpalatable. Take a look at Rotherham if you need confirmation, the PM today touches on but skirts around cultural differences that have no place in our society.NorfolkTilIDie said:
And from a Pakistani origin - so leaving the EU will have zero impact on immigration from Pakistan.
So the article is bollox.
Trade deal with the EU would not alter the free movement issue in any event. I suggest you find another planet to live on.0 -
Reading through the PMs policy on speak English or get deported, it really does smack of desperation and panic.0
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So you admit that the points you make are for effect and not accuracy.flightpath01 said:
500 was vaguely alliterative with 50.Fysics_Teacher said:
Pedant hat on: 500% too small would imply that they were proposing a negative number of planes...flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Good to know, but it really was obvious without you highlighting it.0 -
Mr. Runnymede, whilst also not hugely impressed with Villiers, one must point out that the over-promotion prize remains firmly in the hands of Baroness 'militant secularists' Warsi.0
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There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.0 -
'Mr. Runnymede, whilst also not hugely impressed with Villiers, one must point out that the over-promotion prize remains firmly in the hands of Baroness 'militant secularists' Warsi.'
I'll concede that one0 -
Prof O'Hara
My blog's projection for GE2020 four years out - between a quarter and a third of #Labour MPs cd lose their seats:
http://publicpolicypast.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/so-how-are-labour-doing-now.html?m=10 -
Which if you had bothered to read Alastair's excellent piece will result in a big boost for the Treasury.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.0 -
No he picked a country the nationalists have continually used as an example of how much better things could be if they were independent.Dair said:
This fantasy "risk of invasion" just highlights the nonsense your are spewing.flightpath01 said:
What a cry baby you are.Dair said:
Ah the usual disingenuous rubbish.flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Norway have by far the highest military budget of similar sized nations. Norway have the luxury of spending whatever they want as being Independent and allowed to keep their own wealth, they became the richest country in the world (excluding micro-states).
Compared to Ireland, the SNP was proposing a spend of over 150% of the Irish level, on par, IIRC, with Denmark. Of course there is a great deal to be said for the Icelandic model of spending Zero on defence.
Your last sentence shows you to be disingenuous. Your previous verbage shows you to be in denial. Scotland is part of the UK and has been for longer than Norway has been in existence and as such it has, unlike Norway been protected from invasion by the rest of the uk.
The reality is that we know, factually, what sort of military budget a West European country of Scotland's size would have and on average it is comparable to the SNP's proposals.
You didn't accidentally pick Norway, you picked the country with the highest militay spend per capita in Europe. You deliberately picked a country to make a point which was simply not true. You choose it to construct a lie about the SNP and Scotland.0 -
Thanks to one of the links posted earlier, youtube highlighted a link to the BBC coverage of the 2011 Scottish Elections. Interestingly, watching the first half hour so far, the BBC seem very, very slow to understand what is going on. They seem to b concentrating on tough holds for the SNP and ignoring the Labour "safe" seats about to fall. Not until near the half hour does it even suggest Labour could be in trouble.
Interesting stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0VIU9a_uwA0 -
I wonder why it's been trailed so heavily?taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
This is Osborne throwing his tin helmet above the trench to see how much fire there is and where it's coming from. If he was serious then it wouldn't have leaked. He will 'listen' if it's too much.
I expect 45p relief to definitely go for top rate taxpayers and possibly a flat rate of 30p with some jiggery pokery to ensure that earners between 43-80k on offsetting tax allowances so they don't lose out too much.0 -
Mr. Eagles, if Labour went down to around 140-150 seats (a third lost from the current total) would that effectively mark the beginning of the end?
I suppose it depends where the seats go. Ironically, it'd be better for Labour to lose them to the Conservatives. If they got swallowed up largely by one other party (likely UKIP/the Lib Dems) Labour's battle would be not for the power of government, but the luxury of opposition. If the seats were roughly evenly split between purple and yellows, that'd be more complicated.0 -
Yes, and your point is?flightpath01 said:
Is this the same Lord Lawson that secretly shadowed the deuchmark?Casino_Royale said:
In that case, I wonder if it might not be Theresa May. I think she'll wait until the outcome of the renegotiation.AlastairMeeks said:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fecf162-bd18-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3xaSjBd8B
"The campaign to leave the European Union will be led by a Tory cabinet minister, former chancellor Lord Lawson said, as a new poll gave a six-point lead to the “Out” side.
The peer, who is president of Conservatives for Britain, a Eurosceptic group, said on Sunday he would not reveal the identity of the senior minister but it would emerge “in due course”."
I very much doubt it will be either IDS or Grayling. It obviously can't be Fox.
It could be Theresa Villiers, Whittingdale or Patel. Javid perhaps if Osborne is being particularly canny and has given him licence to dissent.
Or possibly even Greg Hands..0 -
''Which if you had bothered to read Alastair's excellent piece will result in a big boost for the Treasury.''
Some people will not see a Brownian tax raid, even when it is right in front of their eyes.
There is a wider point. Osborne's attempt to balance the budget has, in effect, failed. He's had six years and there is still and endemic shortfall, and there will be for years to come. Meanwhile the debt mountain grows inexorably.
Get him out.0 -
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
John Rentoul
Here you go @OwenJones84 @DPJHodges https://t.co/jNazBPGGwp
Dan Hodges
@JohnRentoul @OwenJones84 Blimey. Hadn't seen that before. Incredible how effective the Tories have been on this.
0 -
Lord Lawson has a history of being spectacularly wrong on the EU unlike Nick Herbert who opposed the Euro as Chief Exec of Business for Sterling.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, and your point is?flightpath01 said:
Is this the same Lord Lawson that secretly shadowed the deuchmark?Casino_Royale said:
In that case, I wonder if it might not be Theresa May. I think she'll wait until the outcome of the renegotiation.AlastairMeeks said:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fecf162-bd18-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3xaSjBd8B
"The campaign to leave the European Union will be led by a Tory cabinet minister, former chancellor Lord Lawson said, as a new poll gave a six-point lead to the “Out” side.
The peer, who is president of Conservatives for Britain, a Eurosceptic group, said on Sunday he would not reveal the identity of the senior minister but it would emerge “in due course”."
I very much doubt it will be either IDS or Grayling. It obviously can't be Fox.
It could be Theresa Villiers, Whittingdale or Patel. Javid perhaps if Osborne is being particularly canny and has given him licence to dissent.
Or possibly even Greg Hands..
Full disclosure. I've met Nick Herbert, top bloke. My kind of Tory and should be in the cabinet.0 -
Indeed, they would have to be a new party to have commons recognition.Danny565 said:
They would essentially all be deselecting themselves. They can't expect to go to the House of Commons to represent their own "grouping", and yet still try to have it both ways by getting the party endorsement, funds and canvassing efforts when it comes to the election.TheScreamingEagles said:
This would mean some positives and some negatives. Leave the Unions backing Labour, leave the debts in the Labour party, leave the constituency offices and members that support and canvas for them in the Labour party and start a fresh new unconnected party in need of all the infrastructure to run a successful national campaign.
If they want to do that they had better start getting some serious backers. As a four year project before 2020 they have a chance. As a two year project if they leave it until 2018 it will be tough.
The difference between 1980s SDP and a split of say up to 100 MPs is massive. Much more momentum (am I allowed to use that word?). However the electoral effect in 2020 could be shambolic for the left, splits between Green LD Phoenix Labour and Existing Labour would be messy.
There is a possible side effect if it were to happen soon. It may make it more likely that there is a Tory split, some to UKIP, some to Phoenix Labour and some staying Tory.0 -
I thought Jez would be bad but he's exceeded my expectations with his awfulness.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, if Labour went down to around 140-150 seats (a third lost from the current total) would that effectively mark the beginning of the end?
I suppose it depends where the seats go. Ironically, it'd be better for Labour to lose them to the Conservatives. If they got swallowed up largely by one other party (likely UKIP/the Lib Dems) Labour's battle would be not for the power of government, but the luxury of opposition. If the seats were roughly evenly split between purple and yellows, that'd be more complicated.
He must be a Tory Manchurian Candidate.0 -
I wonder why it's been trailed so heavily?
We are being softened up for what is another deeply, deeply un conservative policy. In fact, it is positively anti conservative.
Not that career obsessed Osborne cares about that.0 -
How?taffys said:''Which if you had bothered to read Alastair's excellent piece will result in a big boost for the Treasury.''
Some people will not see a Brownian tax raid, even when it is right in front of their eyes.
There is a wider point. Osborne's attempt to balance the budget has, in effect, failed. He's had six years and there is still and endemic shortfall, and there will be for years to come. Meanwhile the debt mountain grows inexorably.
Get him out.
Unless you've been asleep, there is no credible Opposition. The wreckage is busy squabbling over whether we have submarines armed with potato guns, or flags that spell 'Bang'.0 -
Trailed? I'm not sure. Osborne in the past has had a tin ear for the political consequences of otherwise rational changes proposed by the Treasury; why should this be different? It would be interesting to chart its passage through the media. Was it Antifrank@PB followed by the FT last week followed by the Mail, or does that do Fleet Street a disservice?Casino_Royale said:
I wonder why it's been trailed so heavily?taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
This is Osborne throwing his tin helmet above the trench to see how much fire there is and where it's coming from. If he was serious then it wouldn't have leaked. He will 'listen' if it's too much.
I expect 45p relief to definitely go for top rate taxpayers and possibly a flat rate of 30p with some jiggery pokery to ensure that earners between 43-80k on offsetting tax allowances so they don't lose out too much.0 -
What a dope you are. I was being generous about the size of the Scottish airforce.Dair said:
So you admit that the points you make are for effect and not accuracy.flightpath01 said:
500 was vaguely alliterative with 50.Fysics_Teacher said:
Pedant hat on: 500% too small would imply that they were proposing a negative number of planes...flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Good to know, but it really was obvious without you highlighting it.
But get real. Scotland has voted on independence and wisely rejected it and the saddo notions of a few people with chips on their shoulders. All the purported benefits have disappeared in puffs of smoke since then. Nothing is going to change so stop crying about it.0 -
If we're ruling out of Leave anyone who thought differently of the EC/EEC as it then was in the 1980s then the list of those able to campaign for it is going to be very short indeed.TheScreamingEagles said:
Lord Lawson has a history of being spectacularly wrong on the EU unlike Nick Herbert who opposed the Euro as Chief Exec of Business for Sterling.Casino_Royale said:
Yes, and your point is?flightpath01 said:
Is this the same Lord Lawson that secretly shadowed the deuchmark?Casino_Royale said:
In that case, I wonder if it might not be Theresa May. I think she'll wait until the outcome of the renegotiation.AlastairMeeks said:http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7fecf162-bd18-11e5-9fdb-87b8d15baec2.html?siteedition=uk#axzz3xaSjBd8B
"The campaign to leave the European Union will be led by a Tory cabinet minister, former chancellor Lord Lawson said, as a new poll gave a six-point lead to the “Out” side.
The peer, who is president of Conservatives for Britain, a Eurosceptic group, said on Sunday he would not reveal the identity of the senior minister but it would emerge “in due course”."
I very much doubt it will be either IDS or Grayling. It obviously can't be Fox.
It could be Theresa Villiers, Whittingdale or Patel. Javid perhaps if Osborne is being particularly canny and has given him licence to dissent.
Or possibly even Greg Hands..
Full disclosure. I've met Nick Herbert, top bloke. My kind of Tory and should be in the cabinet.0 -
Indeed. Who am I going to trust when it comes to the subject of pensions, Flightpath or Alastair Meeks?Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George will change it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
Indeed - and removing the higher rate tax relief is long overdue and fair.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.0 -
If they had the support of their individual constituency parties they could do this, otherwise they would need to build a new organisation with fundraising from somewhere in the next few years.Danny565 said:
They would essentially all be deselecting themselves. They can't expect to go to the House of Commons to represent their own "grouping", and yet still try to have it both ways by getting the party endorsement, funds and canvassing efforts when it comes to the election.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Well if you would prefer the SNP policy to be based on reparations to put right Scotland's economic position and put it on parity to Norway, the point is still moot. Either Scotland is given the money stolen and joins Norway as one of the worlds super-wealthy country, or it does not and spends an average level on Military expenditure.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he picked a country the nationalists have continually used as an example of how much better things could be if they were independent.Dair said:
This fantasy "risk of invasion" just highlights the nonsense your are spewing.flightpath01 said:
What a cry baby you are.Dair said:
Ah the usual disingenuous rubbish.flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Norway have by far the highest military budget of similar sized nations. Norway have the luxury of spending whatever they want as being Independent and allowed to keep their own wealth, they became the richest country in the world (excluding micro-states).
Compared to Ireland, the SNP was proposing a spend of over 150% of the Irish level, on par, IIRC, with Denmark. Of course there is a great deal to be said for the Icelandic model of spending Zero on defence.
Your last sentence shows you to be disingenuous. Your previous verbage shows you to be in denial. Scotland is part of the UK and has been for longer than Norway has been in existence and as such it has, unlike Norway been protected from invasion by the rest of the uk.
The reality is that we know, factually, what sort of military budget a West European country of Scotland's size would have and on average it is comparable to the SNP's proposals.
You didn't accidentally pick Norway, you picked the country with the highest militay spend per capita in Europe. You deliberately picked a country to make a point which was simply not true. You choose it to construct a lie about the SNP and Scotland.
Neither is a bad thing for Scotland and neither situation is unacceptable in any way.0 -
Mr. Song, and the longer they leave it, the harder that will be.
There was wibbling about replacing Miliband around Christmas 2014. But they'd left it too late by then. I imagine they'll do the same with this. Anyway, time for me to be off.0 -
''Unless you've been asleep, there is no credible Opposition. The wreckage is busy squabbling over whether we have submarines armed with potato guns, or flags that spell 'Bang'.''
Correct, but I am advocating we replace George Osborne with a conservative.
0 -
So you think anyone earning over £43k a year is rich?SquareRoot said:
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George has changed it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
Everything you have saved up for in a pension goes up in smoke if you die the day after you receive your first payment.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed. Who am I going to trust when it comes to the subject of pensions, Flightpath or Alastair Meeks?Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
Assuming you've bought an Annuity.flightpath01 said:
Everything you have saved up for in a pension goes up in smoke if you die the day after you receive your first payment.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed. Who am I going to trust when it comes to the subject of pensions, Flightpath or Alastair Meeks?Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
Do you think that figure is set in stone? Why should it not increase and increase dramatically if the state can afford to?Casino_Royale said:
So you think anyone earning over £43k a year is rich?SquareRoot said:
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George has changed it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
Yes, and that's generally happened when he's tried to bounce it. The omnishames budget being but one example; the tax credits backfiring being another.DecrepitJohnL said:
Trailed? I'm not sure. Osborne in the past has had a tin ear for the political consequences of otherwise rational changes proposed by the Treasury; why should this be different? It would be interesting to chart its passage through the media. Was it Antifrank@PB followed by the FT last week followed by the Mail, or does that do Fleet Street a disservice?Casino_Royale said:
I wonder why it's been trailed so heavily?taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
This is Osborne throwing his tin helmet above the trench to see how much fire there is and where it's coming from. If he was serious then it wouldn't have leaked. He will 'listen' if it's too much.
I expect 45p relief to definitely go for top rate taxpayers and possibly a flat rate of 30p with some jiggery pokery to ensure that earners between 43-80k on offsetting tax allowances so they don't lose out too much.
His big pensions surprise was a total surprise. And he managed to keep it secret even within coalition.
This is deliberate. He's testing the temperature of the water.0 -
Don't be stupid.taffys said:''Unless you've been asleep, there is no credible Opposition. The wreckage is busy squabbling over whether we have submarines armed with potato guns, or flags that spell 'Bang'.''
Correct, but I am advocating we replace George Osborne with a conservative.0 -
Don't bother engaging with flightpath01, he or she has got to be a paid astroturfer.Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
well richer than I am.. and in any case its more than that, add 15% to that for the tax reliefCasino_Royale said:
So you think anyone earning over £43k a year is rich?SquareRoot said:
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George has changed it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
Becoming the Official Opposition would bring the short money to the new 'party' and so that would give them a start. Not enough - but enough to get moving.logical_song said:
If they had the support of their individual constituency parties they could do this, otherwise they would need to build a new organisation with fundraising from somewhere in the next few years.Danny565 said:
They would essentially all be deselecting themselves. They can't expect to go to the House of Commons to represent their own "grouping", and yet still try to have it both ways by getting the party endorsement, funds and canvassing efforts when it comes to the election.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
@Maomentum_: Would Inspector Sands please make his way to the Labour Party control room.0
-
''Don't be stupid.''
The Osbornians on here, as usual, desperate to silence any criticism of their man. They have been for years.
0 -
Casino should think himself/herself luckywatford30 said:
Assuming you've bought an Annuity.flightpath01 said:
Everything you have saved up for in a pension goes up in smoke if you die the day after you receive your first payment.TheScreamingEagles said:
Indeed. Who am I going to trust when it comes to the subject of pensions, Flightpath or Alastair Meeks?Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.
if your final salary pension scheme goes bust and you are in the clutches of the PPF or FAS, If you die before your due date to retire , you get (your estate) gets sweet fanny adams, and so does your spouse (as I understand it), that notwithstanding losing 10% off the top and no increases on pre 1997 service... I don't know if there are special hardship rules...0 -
43k a year is more than 50% above the average. There is no reason to give them extra subsidies for pension payments.Casino_Royale said:
So you think anyone earning over £43k a year is rich?SquareRoot said:
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George has changed it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.0 -
I did listen to it. I guess we all hear what we want to hear, but their conclusion seemed a lot more..well..inconclusive than you suggest.TOPPING said:
@Theuniondivvie listen to the programme. You will be surprised. It was a study, whichever or whenever it was, and no "oh things are much better now" really could or should negate, you know, a study.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
More or Less is a great programme and usually doesn't shirk from probing and often dismantling prevailing myths. I think it probably tried to do that with the 20%/stroke stat (it has certainly done it about weekend mortality in general) but sadly found that it was accurate.
Is the fact that you are 20% more likely to die if you are admitted to hospital at the weekend with a stroke sufficient to determine the outcome of the junior doctors' dispute? Probably not, but it is all part of the 7-day NHS story so Cam can be forgiven for using it.
The study data was more than 5 years old which was confirmed by Charlotte McDonald, one of the presenters not a 'whining doctor', therefore you are statistically 20% more likely to die from a stroke if you are admitted to hospital at the weekend only if you can invent a time machine.0 -
Like I said, saddo people with a chip on their shoulder.Dair said:
Well if you would prefer the SNP policy to be based on reparations to put right Scotland's economic position and put it on parity to Norway, the point is still moot. Either Scotland is given the money stolen and joins Norway as one of the worlds super-wealthy country, or it does not and spends an average level on Military expenditure.Richard_Tyndall said:
No he picked a country the nationalists have continually used as an example of how much better things could be if they were independent.Dair said:
This fantasy "risk of invasion" just highlights the nonsense your are spewing.flightpath01 said:
What a cry baby you are.Dair said:
Ah the usual disingenuous rubbish.flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Norway have by far the highest military budget of similar sized nations. Norway have the luxury of spending whatever they want as being Independent and allowed to keep their own wealth, they became the richest country in the world (excluding micro-states).
Compared to Ireland, the SNP was proposing a spend of over 150% of the Irish level, on par, IIRC, with Denmark. Of course there is a great deal to be said for the Icelandic model of spending Zero on defence.
Your last sentence shows you to be disingenuous. Your previous verbage shows you to be in denial. Scotland is part of the UK and has been for longer than Norway has been in existence and as such it has, unlike Norway been protected from invasion by the rest of the uk.
The reality is that we know, factually, what sort of military budget a West European country of Scotland's size would have and on average it is comparable to the SNP's proposals.
You didn't accidentally pick Norway, you picked the country with the highest militay spend per capita in Europe. You deliberately picked a country to make a point which was simply not true. You choose it to construct a lie about the SNP and Scotland.
Neither is a bad thing for Scotland and neither situation is unacceptable in any way.0 -
This has been 'trailed' for months. Steve Webb, ex-pensions minister, has been talking about this occasionally in the newspapers since leaving office.DecrepitJohnL said:
Trailed? I'm not sure. Osborne in the past has had a tin ear for the political consequences of otherwise rational changes proposed by the Treasury; why should this be different? It would be interesting to chart its passage through the media. Was it Antifrank@PB followed by the FT last week followed by the Mail, or does that do Fleet Street a disservice?Casino_Royale said:
I wonder why it's been trailed so heavily?taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
This is Osborne throwing his tin helmet above the trench to see how much fire there is and where it's coming from. If he was serious then it wouldn't have leaked. He will 'listen' if it's too much.
I expect 45p relief to definitely go for top rate taxpayers and possibly a flat rate of 30p with some jiggery pokery to ensure that earners between 43-80k on offsetting tax allowances so they don't lose out too much.
I doubt Osborne will do it in the end. There's been talk of removing higher rate pension relief for as long as I've been interested in politics and yet nobody ever has the nerve to actually do it.0 -
Mrs Bucket still taking the Leigh Day monies....
http://order-order.com/2016/01/18/thornberry-declared-another-leigh-day-donation-in-kind-last-week/0 -
Parthians, yes, I'll give you that - sorry.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Herdson, Parthians*. Persians (the second time) came after.
And the Parthians did actually give the Romans some significant trouble, as well as causing a substantial downturn in Crassus' political career.
Crassus? No - he went to them rather than they invading Rome's borders.
Actually, I do expect Labour to give the Tories some trouble while the internal divisions last. Corbyn can't be crap all the time, and Labour do have other MPs. All the same, Rome reunited afterwards after their internal troubles and did ok.0 -
Of course! What similarity has Scotland (15,500km coastline) to a Northern European country with a very long coastline (25,000km) and oil fields to defend?Dair said:
You didn't accidentally pick Norway,flightpath01 said:
What a cry baby you are.Dair said:
Ah the usual disingenuous rubbish.flightpath01 said:
The link also shows Salmond. The SNP are also being disingenuous about defence, especially when you compare them to a similar sized Norway. Their proposed defence budget was about 50% too low. Their proposed air force about 500% too small.Scott_P said:
twitter.com/liontornado/status/688994045436280832BannedInParis said:Any policy that gets "lol wat" as a standard reply is probably worth ditching.
I think there's a really good argument for a year zero approach to our armed forces. What do we want to be able to do, how much will it cost, get it done. But the new Trident proposal.
lol
wat
Norway have by far the highest military budget of similar sized nations. Norway have the luxury of spending whatever they want as being Independent and allowed to keep their own wealth, they became the richest country in the world (excluding micro-states).
Compared to Ireland, the SNP was proposing a spend of over 150% of the Irish level, on par, IIRC, with Denmark. Of course there is a great deal to be said for the Icelandic model of spending Zero on defence.
Your last sentence shows you to be disingenuous. Your previous verbage shows you to be in denial. Scotland is part of the UK and has been for longer than Norway has been in existence and as such it has, unlike Norway been protected from invasion by the rest of the uk.
The comparison is ludicrous!
Much better to compare with Denmark (7,300km).......0 -
She really is an objectionable human being - with friends to suit. No wonder she is climbing the greasy Corbyn poleFrancisUrquhart said:Mrs Bucket still taking the Leigh Day monies....
http://order-order.com/2016/01/18/thornberry-declared-another-leigh-day-donation-in-kind-last-week/0 -
That's where the 40p tax band kicks in. This would hit many middle earners between 40-70k doing jobs like teaching, middle management, hospital work, and in the service sector. There will be plenty more who aspire to that who won't be happy.SquareRoot said:
well richer than I am.. and in any case its more than that, add 15% to that for the tax reliefCasino_Royale said:
So you think anyone earning over £43k a year is rich?SquareRoot said:
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George has changed it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.
Consider someone on £60k. At the moment pensions contributions at 5% salary and matched by 5% from the employer would net £6k of contributions a year, well below the £40k annual cap.
On the new proposals for 25% relief, they would be a clear loser.0 -
That does not necessarily follow on from changing the regime of how pensions are taxed. Nor does it set the higher rate threshold in stone.felix said:
Indeed - and removing the higher rate tax relief is long overdue and fair.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
I am ambivalent about higher rate tax relief. It does not seem that unfair to me, but I can see it is very generous, but I believe in higher thresholds and lower rates, if it can be afforded, so limiting it to the standard rate then would be less controversial. Equally I do not see it being a bad idea if pensions themselves are left untaxed. But it is all very complex and changes always leave winners and losers and ends up with 'is it worth it?'0 -
There is no extra subsidy. This is removing existing reliefs from people working hard trying to do the right thing for their retirement.felix said:
43k a year is more than 50% above the average. There is no reason to give them extra subsidies for pension payments.Casino_Royale said:
So you think anyone earning over £43k a year is rich?SquareRoot said:
You must be getting too much tax relief then, thatys why George has changed it. Frankly, rich people getting 40% tax relief was always something that had to go.. Now I am not affected any more I am happy to support the measure!Casino_Royale said:
That's fantastic spin. I would be heavily affected by these changes and stand to lose tens of thousands of pounds over the remainder of my working life. Nothing will offset that.flightpath01 said:
There is no raid. Osborne has made life better for middle England pensioners by changing the rules on pension pots and giving more flexibility. What is being suggested is taxing contributions but not taxing the pension itself.taffys said:Osborne's raid on middle England's pensions gets top billing in the Mail today.
He is in serious trouble.
It's called a stealth tax for a reason.
You may well point out £43k is above the national average. I may point out that it doesn't go very far for aspirational workers in the south east paying £3-5k a year for a season ticket who are heavily mortgaged, and also trying to repay student loans.
We have a pensions savings crisis as it is. These proposals will make it worse and hit plenty of people in marginal seats.
Which is why I don't think they will be as advertised.0 -
'Lord Lawson has a history of being spectacularly wrong on the EU unlike Nick Herbert who opposed the Euro as Chief Exec of Business for Sterling.'
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