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System Posts: 12,578
edited January 2016 in General

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  • MattW
    MattW Posts: 28,308
    Numero uno.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Interesting drop from Mail to Sun/Mirror journalists.
  • Recidivist
    Recidivist Posts: 4,679
    Lenin's party card, number one.
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    MattW..you obviously work at the BBC..
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited January 2016
    FPT
    Scott_P said:

    This has upset all the right people

    @georgegalloway: Labour can do nothing about the BBC but what about their MP Steven Doughty who admits to conspiring with them to damage his own party?

    Idiot. Doughty's 'conspiring' consisted of intending to resign, after which he would be asked questions on air by journalists, and he just agreed to speed the matter up by appearing even sooner after sending his letter of resignation that would normally be the case.
    Plato_Says said:

    Meredith Owen
    Anyone know how many of the Labour leadership contenders who promised to take in a syrian refugee during the campaign have actual done so?

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_P said:

    @portraitinflesh: This is the feminist response that apparently doesn't exist. https://t.co/nEoH8GwEUa

    My fear is it will be just like "Je Suis Charlie"...all forgotten in a few weeks, until there are more problems. Then we rinse and repeat the cycle.
    Pretty sure the gov doesn't just permit people to open up their spare bedrooms for possible refugees? I thought they had to go through local authorities to ensure appropriate properties, local school places, that sort of thing?
    Sandpit said:

    taffys said:

    ''It's all happening faster in Europe for all the obvious reasons. But I think it's a global trend that will reach everywhere in the end.''

    I know it's a curious and perhaps daft example, but it struck me when watching the world darts over Christmas.

    The overwhelmingly British audience love the top class Dutch players to bits and often support them over locals. There really is genuine mutual affection.

    Another sporting example is the European team of the Ryder Cup.

    To me, all that's needed is time and patience. Europe will homogenise naturally if only its leaders would let it. They are just so impatient for a superstate.

    Good conclusion.
    The only time I ever consider myself as European is when the Ryder Cup is on.
    Sport is actually a pretty useful way to forge those sorts of new identities, to be honest.
  • BannedInParis
    BannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Whyever would you make your argument be "its not fair"?
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    edited January 2016
    What's the most amazing thing about this story is that the journo (LauraK) that has caused this issue was only a few weeks ago being tapped up by Milne for advice on working the media more effectively. So clearly in the recent past, she was see as very least somebody who they trusted enough to ask advice from.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Given that Corbyn's team clearly have it in for every media outlet in the country except the Morning Star, how do they think they will be able to get their message across before the election apart from the legal balance requirement on the TV news?
  • MP_SE
    MP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Plato_Says said:

    Very stupid by Twitter.com

    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/09/twitter-declares-war-on-conservative-media-unverifies-breitbart-tech-editor/

    Yiannopoulos, whose public profile has been soaring since September 2014, was verified in mid-2015 and is the subject of dozens, if not hundreds, of parody and fan accounts. He is listed on the Drudge Report as one of Matt Drudge’s favourite writers and is one of the rising stars of libertarian and conservative media.

    His unverification appears to be the first time a major media personality has been stripped of a blue badge by Twitter. The company refuses to be drawn on why it had taken the popular journalist and commentator’s verified status away.
    I believe Milo Yiannopoulos has been very vocal about bias against conservatives by certain social media companies.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    edited January 2016
    Sandpit said:

    Given that Corbyn's team clearly have it in for every media outlet in the country except the Morning Star, how do they think they will be able to get their message across before the election apart from the legal balance requirement on the TV news?

    It is quite an amazing achievement, that even the more mainstream parts of the media who were initial quite pro-Corbynism and very pro bash the big corporations, the bankers, the Tories etc, now even they aren't giving him much positive press.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    "Tory Scum-Bag!"

    https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10262255_10153873444979429_4765183729291031420_n.jpg?oh=5bd30e4cb4a223eb077b3fc841246d56&oe=56FE9092
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    The Republican Right in America has the Tea Party. Never to be outdone in the outrage stakes, Scotland now has its equally angry Teacake Party, threatening boycott and retribution against the mighty Tunnock’s empire.
    Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-wilson-more-at-stake-for-scotland-than-teacakes-1-3995922#ixzz3wlB7lSBY
    Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What's the most amazing thing about this story is that the journo (LauraK) that has caused this issue was only a few weeks ago being tapped up by Milne for advice on working the media more effectively. So clearly in the recent past, she was see as very least somebody who they trusted enough to ask advice from.

    I hope the next time she is asked for advice she gives it in the most strident terms
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,080
    Scott_P said:

    The Republican Right in America has the Tea Party. Never to be outdone in the outrage stakes, Scotland now has its equally angry Teacake Party, threatening boycott and retribution against the mighty Tunnock’s empire.
    Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-wilson-more-at-stake-for-scotland-than-teacakes-1-3995922#ixzz3wlB7lSBY
    Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook

    I went through a pack of six teacakes last week! Not bad! #tunnocks
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    YOUGOV - London Mayoral poll converted into 1st round votes

    Khan 1.3m
    Goldsmith 1m
    Others 567k

    https://t.co/bGD77E2TQ0
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    this is joyous

    @LeeThom06347754: @Harryslaststand Dan Jarvis is another career politician. This is an epidemic affecting most MPs which sadly causes mass disengagement.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @derekrootboy: Please, Louise Mench and David Cameron, do take @DanJarvisMP off our hands. Good riddance to bad rubbish. #ToryPlant https://t.co/sQ9rcWi128
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    What's the most amazing thing about this story is that the journo (LauraK) that has caused this issue was only a few weeks ago being tapped up by Milne for advice on working the media more effectively. So clearly in the recent past, she was see as very least somebody who they trusted enough to ask advice from.

    They're just mightily peeved that the resigning minister made sure that the letter he sent to Corbyn arrived in his office after he'd left for the Commons and PMQs, so the first that most of the party knew about the resignation was when he popped up on the Daily Politics with a smiling Laura K :)

    Any party leadership would be upset in the same situation, but they should really take it up privately with the man who resigned, not publicly with the journalists who were, umm, just being journalists! Great scoop for Laura though, well done!
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Scott_P said:

    @derekrootboy: Please, Louise Mench and David Cameron, do take @DanJarvisMP off our hands. Good riddance to bad rubbish. #ToryPlant https://t.co/sQ9rcWi128

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election
  • Yorkcity
    Yorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had.
    She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.
    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited January 2016
    YC...The BBC has a whole Royal Team....
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Scott_P said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
    I see...and that makes him a Tory plant...they really are nutjobs these Corbynite followers. But then you only have to look at the NUS welfare officer who is a big Corbynite. She spends her time helping CAGE get into unis to spread their hate.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited January 2016
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Scott_P said:

    @derekrootboy: Please, Louise Mench and David Cameron, do take @DanJarvisMP off our hands. Good riddance to bad rubbish. #ToryPlant https://t.co/sQ9rcWi128

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?
    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/09/dan-jarvis-jeremy-and-i-are-not-on-each-others-speed-dials
    Jarvis is not enamoured of the current state of the party. He says it’s in a state of “collective amnesia”. “We’ve lost two general elections on the trot, we’re on a downward trajectory as a party and have been for 10 or more years, and we need to understand why the public didn’t feel they could put their trust in us. We are an industrial party in a post-industrial age. If Clement Attlee turned up to a Labour party meeting tonight, he would feel very comfortable. The model by which we do our politics is outdated.”
  • LadyBucket
    LadyBucket Posts: 590
    I can't remember where I read the comment but it was suggested that Labour deliberately created a fuss, so in future, the BBC would be reluctant to accept any resignation on air. I don't agree, myself.

    Such a fuss has been made of this by all sides, with journalists tweeting themselves silly, that I'm not sure if anyone comes out of it well.

    There is far more serious news to cover, i.e. the alleged sexual assaults on New Year's Eve. I think this is only the start of it!
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html

    But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
  • Kinga
    Kinga Posts: 59
    Scott_P said:

    The Republican Right in America has the Tea Party. Never to be outdone in the outrage stakes, Scotland now has its equally angry Teacake Party, threatening boycott and retribution against the mighty Tunnock’s empire.
    Read more: http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-wilson-more-at-stake-for-scotland-than-teacakes-1-3995922#ixzz3wlB7lSBY
    Follow us: @TheScotsman on Twitter | TheScotsmanNewspaper on Facebook

    Guess who will be along shortly extolling the virtues of the far superior Turnip Teacakes.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Yorkcity said:

    Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had.
    She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.

    Kuenssberg is the daughter of a left wing academic. She was trusted by Seamus Milne a rabid marxist.
  • John_M
    John_M Posts: 7,503
    Scott_P said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
    Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html

    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ha!

    #TwitterMoments https://t.co/xv0ayaxwX9
  • John_M
    John_M Posts: 7,503
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had.
    She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.

    Kuenssberg is the daughter of a left wing academic. She was trusted by Seamus Milne a rabid marxist.
    Yes, but she's done something disagreeable to the Corbynista lunatics, hence: Tory. It's a very simple algorithm, you'll soon get the hang of it.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited January 2016
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.

    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
  • EPG
    EPG Posts: 6,739
    justin124 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.

    Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.
  • Steven_Whaley
    Steven_Whaley Posts: 313
    Yet more baffling behaviour from Labour - but it has always been so, at least to me.

    I'm a floating voter who has voted Conservative (mostly), plus Green and Liberal Democrat. I understand what each of those three parties stands for and I mostly know which policies of each of these parties I agree with and disagree with. Broadly speaking, I know what I'm voting for when I vote Conservative, Green or LibDem. I also believe I understand what UKIP stands for too (though I would never vote for them as there's not really very much common ground there with my own views).

    Labour, however, have always been something of a mystery to me. I've never really understood what they stand for or how their thought processes work and I don't believe they've (collectively as a party) ever understood what they stand for either (at least not within my voting lifetime). That's the main bar to me ever voting Labour - I have absolutely no idea what a vote cast for Labour is a vote for and I don't think anyone in Labour is likely to be able to tell me in the near to medium future.

  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato..I hope the entire Army closes ranks on this nonsense..Or ask the CPS to go and get shot at..
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    Surely Mr Gove and Mr Cameron should be able to put some legislation through quickly making it quite clear that outside the military's disciplinary process, individual soldiers are not fair game for ambulance-chasing scumbag lawyers in British courts.

    If they want to sue the UK then they should sue the SoS for Defence, or sue the UK in International courts, with no British legal aid.
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Clinton's average lead over Trump down to 2 percentage points according to RCP:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited January 2016
    EPG said:

    justin124 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
    Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.

    I for one would welcome live blogging from the left wing twittersphere. Either way it provides leaping off point for further comment.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
    Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
    I wonder if the Conservative Party Chairman has actually got hold of Mr Jarvis' phone number?

    There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    Hilarious that Milne' s dad was BBC DG. All these pseudo lefties with privileged backgrounds. What a bunch of t*****s.
  • John_M
    John_M Posts: 7,503
    EPG said:

    justin124 said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    But is it to be seriously suggested that troops from the Aggressor countries - UK and US - should not be held to account for alleged atrocities committed ? At the very least such allegations deserve to be investigated in detail.
    Yes, it is to be seriously suggested. This is PB comments, after all, where liveblogging the right-wing Twittersphere comprises about fifty per cent of the content.

    For what it's worth, one of my sacred cows is that everybody is equal under the law, without fear or favour. That includes politicians, soldiers, immigrants, priests and so on and so forth.

    Having worked with the forces a good deal, I still feel queasy at armchair criticism of decisions made in the heat of battle. But that's all. I think anyone who's been in combat can tell the difference between killing someone and murdering them.
  • TCPoliticalBetting
    TCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    Let them sue the MoD but without a penny of legal aid.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
    Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
    I wonder if the Conservative Party Chairman has actually got hold of Mr Jarvis' phone number?

    There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
    I am sure that Lord Feldman is just the type of fellow he would like to do business with - someone who would never touch 'bullying' of any kind with a bargepole.
  • Yorkcity
    Yorkcity Posts: 4,382
    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Yorkcity said:

    Laura Kuenssberg is the most right wing political correspondent the BBC has had.
    She came from ITV so followed Tom Bradby in his fawning for the Royals and Conservative politics.

    Kuenssberg is the daughter of a left wing academic. She was trusted by Seamus Milne a rabid marxist.
    So what a lot of people have relations of a different political persuasion.
    Milne judgement you are relying on ?
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    felix said:

    Hilarious that Milne' s dad was BBC DG. All these pseudo lefties with privileged backgrounds. What a bunch of t*****s.

    Given he was brought up in such a household, you would think he would have at least a clue about how the media works.
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Of course the problem is Labour's poor media operation, which is of course why Labour's poor media operation is blaming the BBC (and everybody else) for its own failings.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    justin124 said:

    Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election

    That'd be an interesting one - what is the base level of popularity of the CDU sans Merkel, do we know?
    LadyBucket said:

    I can't remember where I read the comment but it was suggested that Labour deliberately created a fuss, so in future, the BBC would be reluctant to accept any resignation on air. I don't agree, myself.
    !

    I believe Dan Hodges for one suggested that. I could see it working, whether it was the intention or not.
    Scott_P said:

    this is joyous

    @LeeThom06347754: @Harryslaststand Dan Jarvis is another career politician. This is an epidemic affecting most MPs which sadly causes mass disengagement.

    I think 'career politician' and 'spad', both things people generally dislike even more than the average politician (to a degree - it doesn't stop them being leaders, in fact we seen to reward such people) and so have become meaningless insults. Trot is another one, in the other direction.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @Maomentum_: Now time for ALL sides of the party to unite and take the fight to the REAL enemy: Dan Jarvis.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited January 2016
    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.

    I wonder what Mrs Bucket thinks? Maybe somebody should ask her...
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Sandpit said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
    Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
    I wonder if the Conservative Party Chairman has actually got hold of Mr Jarvis' phone number?

    There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
    They won't but I wish one would, purely for the sheer joy of watching the Corbynite heads explode.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @seantduffy: I don't get the Dan Jarvis love. I've seen him speak - he was very average, certainly not in Cameron's league. Also - he hasn't done much.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.

    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Where would the Prosecuting authority get the collaborative and totally convincing evidence from..
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Scott_P said:

    @seantduffy: I don't get the Dan Jarvis love. I've seen him speak - he was very average, certainly not in Cameron's league. Also - he hasn't done much.

    And this guy is doing a PhD in education...in my day you had to be really bright to get a funded PhD place....now they fund c##p like this.."Precarious Transitions: How education shapes young working class individuals’ perceptions of work in austerity Scotland"
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    edited January 2016
    Sandpit said:

    John_M said:

    Scott_P said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Where is all this anti-Jarvis stuff coming from? Have I missed him saying Thatcher was right or something?

    He wants to keep Trident
    Jarvis is a Tory. You know, just like 90% of the Labour MPs. Corbynista lunacy really does know no bounds. Poor Labour. One decade a colossus, the next, a cult.
    There must be a few MPs seriously considering resigning the whip, if not crossing the floor?
    I can't believe that. Corbyn's not even in place a year, even if someone thinks he will last the distance, and many do not, not worthy resigning the whip now even.

    As for crossing the floor, every Labour rebel I've seen appears very clear one reason they are angry is the Tories are getting away with crappy government because of Corbyn incompetence or policies which will prevent a Labour government correcting that Tory government. Even if a few, in private, are thinking it would not be a crazy idea, the atmosphere seems hostile to such a move, and the Tories may change leader and/or tack right during and after the EU civil war to come, so even if you think Cameron is a centrish, acceptable leader, changing now would be silly.

    Then you have the pressure there would be to have a by-election in the event of crossing the floor - they wouldn't have to, but the Carswell principle is hard to argue against, and if they did it most would lose.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
    They are vexatious purely by being aimed at individual soldiers, and trying to prosecute them personally, funded with legal aid. If they want to sue the British government for compensation, let them sue the SoS for Defence or take the UK to an international court.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.

    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    Scott_P said:

    @seantduffy: I don't get the Dan Jarvis love. I've seen him speak - he was very average, certainly not in Cameron's league. Also - he hasn't done much.

    Sums up Labour's problem - ABC by definition must be the new messiah.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.

    We've already seen false allegations made against British servicemen, during the course of the Al-Sweady Inquiry. Leigh Day have been referred to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal as a result.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    justin124 said:

    Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election

    Don't think so. See

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-merkel-idUSKCN0Q636920150801
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.

    The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    I don't see how being a socialist means you can't have nice things.
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
    We've already seen false allegations made against British servicemen, during the course of the Al-Sweady Inquiry. Leigh Day have been referred to the Solicitors Disciplinary Tribunal as a result.

    I'm sure the shadow defence secretary will stand up for justice and ensure Leigh Day are properly punished.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited January 2016
    Ali L
    Gosh, if only they'd been proactive on New Years Eve this wouldn't have been necessary. Who'd have thunk it? https://t.co/09taK3okIi

    Reuters: Police in #Cologne have fired water canon to disperse protesters from the right-wing #PEGIDA movement following NYE sex attacks

    A Cloaked Figure
    Any Cologne attack victims on the Pegida march being water cannoned? That would be quite a double whammy in one week
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    NickPalmer said:

    justin124 said:

    Is it the case that Angela Merkel will not be seeking a further term as Chancellor? I seem to recall comments from 2013 to the effect that she was fighting her last election

    Don't think so. See

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-merkel-idUSKCN0Q636920150801
    OK -thanks for that. She has obviously changed her mind! I wonder if anyone else might be tempted to do that?
  • flightpath01
    flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    She can afford it. Good to see she supports good great British companies.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    edited January 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    Its a good job Hunter aren't still called North British Rubber. ..
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
    The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.

    That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    FlightpathO1.will that be before or after the next large cash donation from them..
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    And?
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
    Really..?

    Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.

    Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Plato_Says said:

    Ali L
    Gosh, if only they'd been proactive on New Years Eve this wouldn't have been necessary. Who'd have thunk it? https://t.co/09taK3okIi

    Reuters: Police in #Cologne have fired water canon to disperse protesters from the right-wing #PEGIDA movement following NYE sex attacks

    A Cloaked Figure
    Any Cologne attack victims on the Pegida march being water cannoned? That would be quite a double whammy in one week

    They better hope that the Pegida mob were causing trouble which required water canonning, otherwise this will be just terrible PR disaster.
  • richardDodd
    richardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Thornberry will have to make a comment or a statement in the HOC at some point regarding these allegations..I wonder what she will say..given her situation is completely untenable.
  • TwistedFireStopper
    TwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    What's wrong with that? Apart from the fact that Hunter wellies ain't as good as they used to be!
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
    The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
    That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.

    I think you rather wish to believe that British soldiers are war criminals, purely by reason of having fought in Iraq, and I think that's the motivation of people like Leigh Day.
  • Wanderer
    Wanderer Posts: 3,838
    TwistedFireStopper said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    What's wrong with that? Apart from the fact that Hunter wellies ain't as good as they used to be!
    Aigle > Hunter
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.

    The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.
  • John_M
    John_M Posts: 7,503
    Plato_Says said:

    Ali L
    Gosh, if only they'd been proactive on New Years Eve this wouldn't have been necessary. Who'd have thunk it? https://t.co/09taK3okIi

    Reuters: Police in #Cologne have fired water canon to disperse protesters from the right-wing #PEGIDA movement following NYE sex attacks

    A Cloaked Figure
    Any Cologne attack victims on the Pegida march being water cannoned? That would be quite a double whammy in one week

    But foxinsox was very clear that using water cannon on NYE might have led to fatalities. Doh! The world is turning topsy-turvy!
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    And?
    Important because it emphasises the hypocrisy of the left. Very illuminating that you cannot see it.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
    The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.

    Not at all - that is the basis on which the DPP always proceeds. 'Evidence' and 'Proof' are very different things, and the criminal standard of 'Proven beyond all reasonable doubt' is very demanding - and rightly so.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Ali L
    Gosh, if only they'd been proactive on New Years Eve this wouldn't have been necessary. Who'd have thunk it? https://t.co/09taK3okIi

    Reuters: Police in #Cologne have fired water canon to disperse protesters from the right-wing #PEGIDA movement following NYE sex attacks

    A Cloaked Figure
    Any Cologne attack victims on the Pegida march being water cannoned? That would be quite a double whammy in one week

    They better hope that the Pegida mob were causing trouble which required water canonning, otherwise this will be just terrible PR disaster.
    They had better hope it was a mob that got water cannoned, not a genuine protest from victims and their supporters. After the way the story played out during the week, it comes across as shutting down those opposed to the cover-up by the authorities.
  • kle4
    kle4 Posts: 99,113
    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: Socialist Nicola Sturgeon steps out in £179 Barbour jacket and £130 Hunter wellies https://t.co/Ko5cGkAnL2

    And?
    Important because it emphasises the hypocrisy of the left. Very illuminating that you cannot see it.
    Hardly. I just think quibbling over people's wellies is taking looking for hypocrisy in things a bit too minor to care about, and is the sort of thing that has some basis when people on the left complain about automatically critical obsessives. David Cameron's supposed concern about the expensive appearance of his wellies is equally unimportant to me, and I wanted him to be PM in both 2010 and 2015.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    I note it was also Leigh Day who a few years ago acted for Kenyan women who brought claims of rape against British soldiers which fell apart under scrutiny.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
    The British Army is not remotely equivalent to the SS.
    That is not the point at all! Due legal process should be the same.
    I think you rather wish to believe that British soldiers are war criminals, purely by reason of having fought in Iraq, and I think that's the motivation of people like Leigh Day.

    In which case you are totally wrong!
    I would far prefer to see Blair on trial at the Hague - but the two do not exclude each other as these allegations presumably relate to unlawful conduct in relation to civilians and others on the battlefield - or in the post conflict period.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    edited January 2016
    I notice the BBC / Guardian are doing a nice bit of spin by making a big point of 18 of the 31 had asylum status and none have been charged with sexual crimes....what could they be suggesting? Given the eye witness accounts we know for a fact these crimes were not committed by German (or English) speakers.
  • felix
    felix Posts: 15,180
    justin124 said:

    felix said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    If the allegations are 'vexatious and spurious' then that will surely emerge in the course of a proper investigation. I cannot imagine the prosecuting authorities bringing anyone to trial in the absence of pretty strong evidence.
    The problem is that your final sentence is very close to an assumption of guilt. In the past such statements in the public domain would have been enough to have a trial annulled.
    Not at all - that is the basis on which the DPP always proceeds. 'Evidence' and 'Proof' are very different things, and the criminal standard of 'Proven beyond all reasonable doubt' is very demanding - and rightly so.

    Indeed - but you're not the DPP and the court of public opinion sees things differently especially when idiots start spouting about ' strong evidence'. Mud sticks - as of course you knew when you wrote it.
  • justin124
    justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
    Really..?

    Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.

    Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.

    However much you may wish to hide behind Godwin , it is a fact that many individual German - and Japanese - soldiers -both SS and non-SS were charged , tried, convicted - and sometimes executed for specific crimes they were judged to have committed.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Eastleigh 1-0 Bolton :o
  • peter_from_putney
    peter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    BBC News:

    "Boris Johnson has said the UK has a "great, great future" outside the EU if it doesn't secure the reform it needs."

    That sounds very much to me as if Boris is edging towards a Leave position
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    peter_from_putney said:

    BBC News:

    "Boris Johnson has said the UK has a "great, great future" outside the EU if it doesn't secure the reform it needs."

    That sounds very much to me as if Boris is edging towards a Leave position

    Boris just playing all the angles.
  • perdix
    perdix Posts: 1,806
    Sandpit said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    Surely Mr Gove and Mr Cameron should be able to put some legislation through quickly making it quite clear that outside the military's disciplinary process, individual soldiers are not fair game for ambulance-chasing scumbag lawyers in British courts.

    If they want to sue the UK then they should sue the SoS for Defence, or sue the UK in International courts, with no British legal aid.

    Is it correct that certain lawyers have retained Iraqi civilians to actually solicit complaints from former Iraqi combatants about British soldiers?

  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    OT great animated map

    Watch as American states change over 200 years [timelapse map] https://t.co/GKgr7rOIQR https://t.co/0jWfSq16qI
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    Sandpit said:

    justin124 said:

    TCPoliticalBetting said:

    Plato_Says said:

    I'm very uncomfortable with this. They sign up to protect us, get sent wherever and then threatened with prosecution.

    AROUND 280 British soldiers could face charges over the deaths of 55 Iraqis.

    Hundreds are said to have been handed letters and quizzed on their doorsteps about the possible abuse of insurgents.

    The Iraq Historic Allegations Team (Ihat), heading the investigation, is reportedly probing 35 alleged killings and 36 claims of abuse.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6849330/280-British-troops-could-be-charged-with-torture-and-murder-of-Iraqis.html
    A breaking of the covenant. Cameron needs to quickly introduce a solution.
    British Army atrocities to go unpunished! What would we have said if the Nazis had behaved like that? I suppose it is a case of 'If they committed murder in our name we must do our very best to cover up for them'.
    If they want to sue Britain let them sue Britain and have the Government's lawyers deal with it. Certainly with no legal aid.

    Individual soldiers are not fair game for such vexatious and spurious litigation, that's not what they signed up for and the government needs to very quickly sort it out.

    From a party political point of view, this will see Conservative members posting their membership cards back in their thousands if they don't get it sorted.
    The logic there rather implies that the numerous crimes committed by the SS in World War 2 should have been addressed by suing the German Government - rather than bringing the individual murderers to trial. I suppose it is a view - but it is not how we proceeded post 1945.
    Really..?

    Britain has not just lost a World War, we are a functioning democracy happy to be sued by anyone in a number of international courts. Individual soldiers are the responsibility of the British government and are not fodder for scumbag lawyers like Leigh Day.

    Oh, and whatever they may be accused of doing, it's really really REALLY not the same as what the SS were doing in WWII. Godwin wins the day.
    However much you may wish to hide behind Godwin , it is a fact that many individual German - and Japanese - soldiers -both SS and non-SS were charged , tried, convicted - and sometimes executed for specific crimes they were judged to have committed.
    And when the UK loses a war and our government is overthrown, then maybe our soldiers will be fair game for war crimes trials from our victors. Until that day, no chance.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Sandpit said:

    Eastleigh 1-0 Bolton :o

    Bolton can always bring on the goal machine that is Shola Ameobi....LOL...
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,736
    Tommy Robinson has been in Cologne, making some "interesting" remarks. This photo is rather "unfortunate",

    https://twitter.com/oliver_lane/status/685820008723791872
This discussion has been closed.

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