politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why the decline of the BNP is good new for Farage’s UKIP
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What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.
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You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html0 -
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?blackburn63 said:
She's very sensible but I hate to say naive. Millions of young Germans are perfectly capable of having a night out without surrounding young girls and molesting them, curtailing their social lives because of the unacceptable behaviour of visitors seems unfair. I'm told that the places these people have come from are awful, if they can't behave send them straight back.Cyclefree said:
Sensible girl Miss Moses.Moses_ said:
Young Miss Moses said to me tonight that they should tell the men not to go out and have a night curfew placed on them. After all it's them raping and sexually assaulting us.FrancisUrquhart said:
Somebody was on here 2-3 days ago saying on a recent trip to Vienna they were told by taxi drivers to watch out.AndyJS said:Apparently Vienna's police chief is advising women not to go out on the streets alone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html
Can't fault the logic I suppose though the practicalities may be somewhat challenging.
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
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It causes global warming?blackburn63 said:
What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.0 -
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.0 -
You want to bring all that up again?blackburn63 said:
What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.
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And what's right about imposing a de facto curfew on the likely victims, none of whom are responsible for the crimes?blackburn63 said:
Oh come on that's unfair, I'm as outraged as anybody but imposing a curfew on men when the authorities know it's a tiny % of the population isn't right.Cyclefree said:
In effect women are being placed under a curfew. So why not the men? That's where the risk is.Wanderer said:
Naturally I'm not really in favour of curfews on anyone, but it has occurred to me that if men, as a whole, were under a curfew until this problem was fixed, it would get fixed (one way or another) pretty damn fast.Moses_ said:
Young Miss Moses said to me tonight that they should tell the men not to go out and have a night curfew placed on them. After all it's them raping and sexually assaulting us.FrancisUrquhart said:
Somebody was on here 2-3 days ago saying on a recent trip to Vienna they were told by taxi drivers to watch out.AndyJS said:Apparently Vienna's police chief is advising women not to go out on the streets alone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html
Can't fault the logic I suppose though the practicalities may be somewhat challenging.
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Climate Change please... ;-)Tim_B said:
It causes global warming?blackburn63 said:
What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.
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If you mean social democracy I'm all in favour of itkle4 said:
What about 'socialist inspired' ideas?Wanderer said:
Though I'm strongly opposed to a socialist government here, I don't it's necessarily *ridiculous* to be a socialist. Certainly there was a time, a little over a hundred years ago - when I would have said it was eminently reasonable. To me, socialism as a idealistic vision has never recovered from the failure of the Second International in 1914.blackburn63 said:
Well, a eurocommunist is virtually a ToryWanderer said:
You're free to stick them in if you want to - I don't wrote the page and it's bad form for people to edit their own page. But however much you put quotes around them, we're talking about my views 45 years ago. I gave up on communism when I was 21 (and living in Denmark) - felt it was a nice idea in principle (so long as it was linked to democracy, in the Eurocommunist fashion of the time) that didn't actually work.NickPalmer said:anything more strenuous than Sainsbury microwaveable meals. I'll be 66 next month and I'm enjoying having a bit more free time with only two jobs instead of three.
Since then vast amounts of water have passed under the bridge and to be a socialist now seems almost antique. However, it is still a very powerful critique of capitalism. It has its allure.
I'm still not voting for it though
Personally, I don't think most people fear a label like socialist in a politician, unless they are simultaneously seen as extreme (one might argue anyone who is or might be a socialist is definitely extreme, but people can get away with that sort of thing - a similar example is the argument some put forward that Cameron's strength is not alarming people when he is in fact a lot more right wing than many people think, who regard him as instinctively centrist), though there are a fringe who, regardless of how ideologically consistent they are with genuine socialism, do see it as the 'moral' tag to have against evil capitalists, but those are a minority. So someone socialist or socialist inspired I think could still be accepted.
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I don't detest UKIP - I ran a non-partisan animal welfare stand at their conference in 2014 - had a pleasant time chatting to delegates, which I don't think I would have at a BNP conference. And my comment was intended to be friendly - I think they've avoided the ultra-right suspicions more successfully than most. But I do think that UKIP has hit a bit of a ceiling because floating voters (i.e. the ones who might push them up to 20%) see them as a bit eccentric and (fairly or not) a bit racist, and voters who quite like what they say don't feel comfortable identifying with them. They need a few more Carswell-like defectors with gravitas to change that.blackburn63 said:
Floating voters? Oh come off it Nick the Labour Party has chucked all sorts of rubbish at ukip. You're clearly a decent man, there is an element of your party that will stoop to any depths where smearing is concerned. The labour council in Rotherham removed two foster children because the parents joined ukip.0 -
I think you will find that the risk is not german men but muslim immigrants.Cyclefree said:
In effect women are being placed under a curfew. So why not the men? That's where the risk is.Wanderer said:
Naturally I'm not really in favour of curfews on anyone, but it has occurred to me that if men, as a whole, were under a curfew until this problem was fixed, it would get fixed (one way or another) pretty damn fast.Moses_ said:
Young Miss Moses said to me tonight that they should tell the men not to go out and have a night curfew placed on them. After all it's them raping and sexually assaulting us.FrancisUrquhart said:
Somebody was on here 2-3 days ago saying on a recent trip to Vienna they were told by taxi drivers to watch out.AndyJS said:Apparently Vienna's police chief is advising women not to go out on the streets alone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html
Can't fault the logic I suppose though the practicalities may be somewhat challenging.
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I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?blackburn63 said:
She's very sensible but I hate to say naive. Millions of young Germans are perfectly capable of having a night out without surrounding young girls and molesting them, curtailing their social lives because of the unacceptable behaviour of visitors seems unfair. I'm told that the places these people have come from are awful, if they can't behave send them straight back.Cyclefree said:
Sensible girl Miss Moses.Moses_ said:
Young Miss Moses said to me tonight that they should tell the men not to go out and have a night curfew placed on them. After all it's them raping and sexually assaulting us.FrancisUrquhart said:
Somebody was on here 2-3 days ago saying on a recent trip to Vienna they were told by taxi drivers to watch out.AndyJS said:Apparently Vienna's police chief is advising women not to go out on the streets alone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html
Can't fault the logic I suppose though the practicalities may be somewhat challenging.
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.
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I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 390 -
Please forgive me - I have obviously failed to keep abreast of the topicFrancisUrquhart said:
Climate Change please... ;-)Tim_B said:
It causes global warming?blackburn63 said:
What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation. 0 -
Michael Dugher on Corbyn's advisers:
"A bunch of far-left, antiwar former communists in thrall to Ken Livingstone".
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/0 -
You obviously didn't get the memo...it is men of "North African and Arab appearance"...Gaius said:
I think you will find that the risk is not german men but muslim immigrants.Cyclefree said:
In effect women are being placed under a curfew. So why not the men? That's where the risk is.Wanderer said:
Naturally I'm not really in favour of curfews on anyone, but it has occurred to me that if men, as a whole, were under a curfew until this problem was fixed, it would get fixed (one way or another) pretty damn fast.Moses_ said:
Young Miss Moses said to me tonight that they should tell the men not to go out and have a night curfew placed on them. After all it's them raping and sexually assaulting us.FrancisUrquhart said:
Somebody was on here 2-3 days ago saying on a recent trip to Vienna they were told by taxi drivers to watch out.AndyJS said:Apparently Vienna's police chief is advising women not to go out on the streets alone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html
Can't fault the logic I suppose though the practicalities may be somewhat challenging.0 -
Thats the GE campaign written...No need to pay Crosby this time around.AndyJS said:Michael Dugher on Corbyn's advisers:
"A bunch of far-left, antiwar former communists in thrall to Ken Livingstone".
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/0 -
Yes I'm curious what he said.flightpath01 said:
You want to bring all that up again?blackburn63 said:
What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.
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Just had a gander at tim on twitter... it's a shame NPxMP doesn't have a chat with him on there... now that would be a thread to post up on here.0
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Missed that, very funny!Tim_B said:
It causes global warming?blackburn63 said:
What did Farage say about breastfeeding?Danny565 said:
For me, I think the main problem with UKIP is not that they're seen as "racist", but more that they're just stuffy and old-fashioned. I actually think Farage's comments about women not breastfeeding in public, and the whole thing about "gay marriage causing floods", have been worse for their reputation than anything they've said about immigrationWanderer said:
No doubt the neo-Nazi whiff is especially toxic in Germany.NickPalmer said:
They have the same problem as most radical right parties - they are constantly fighting off suspicion of being neo-Nazi or at least racist - the media keep finding one more district chairman with dodgy views. In Germany, for obvious historical reasons, that's even more deadly than elsewhere.Wanderer said:
Yes, a difficulty with all this CDU-in-crisis stuff is that AfD is still polling in single figures. Maybe they are just not very credible?NickPalmer said:
Here are the German polls. Can you spot any recent trends? If anything the CDU seems a bit up on a couple of months ago. The AfD definitely bounced in the autumn, but have seemed stuck since. You can see the full list for each institute by clicking on it.Floater said:
http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/
To give Farage credit, he did impose the ban on former BNP members early on, and that's limited the problem for UKIP. I think floating voters see them as a bit obsessive and maybe a bit racist, but not neo-Nazi or anything like that.
I'm not at all clear about the relationship, if any, between AfD and Pegida. If asked I would probably guess AfD=UKIP, Pegida=BNP, but I don't know if that's right.
It's a fair point about UKIP. Even those of us who think they are... special... still see them as a respectable party. "BNP in blazers" is not really a fair characterisation.
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There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.0 -
He's not big on irony, is our Nick.AndyJS said:0 -
Who just so happen to be MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS.FrancisUrquhart said:
You obviously didn't get the memo...it is men of "North African and Arab appearance"...Gaius said:
I think you will find that the risk is not german men but muslim immigrants.Cyclefree said:
In effect women are being placed under a curfew. So why not the men? That's where the risk is.Wanderer said:
Naturally I'm not really in favour of curfews on anyone, but it has occurred to me that if men, as a whole, were under a curfew until this problem was fixed, it would get fixed (one way or another) pretty damn fast.Moses_ said:
Young Miss Moses said to me tonight that they should tell the men not to go out and have a night curfew placed on them. After all it's them raping and sexually assaulting us.FrancisUrquhart said:
Somebody was on here 2-3 days ago saying on a recent trip to Vienna they were told by taxi drivers to watch out.AndyJS said:Apparently Vienna's police chief is advising women not to go out on the streets alone:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3390168/Migrant-rape-fears-spread-Europe-Women-told-not-night-assaults-carried-Sweden-Finland-Germany-Austria-Switzerland-amid-warnings-gangs-ordinating-attacks.html
Can't fault the logic I suppose though the practicalities may be somewhat challenging.
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I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
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At the moment most Iowa polls are showing Cruz then Trump with Rubio thirdSpeedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.0 -
Regarding Cruz and a potential legal case against him on the basis that he was born in Canada, can I just ask: what the hell are the Dems doing?
Cruz is the only candidate that Hillary would comfortably beat.0 -
I'm surprised you even bothered replying Mr Tyndall. It's the same as the breastfeeding thing, several on here are busy googling the smoking gun over something Nigel didn't say.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
It's pathetic.
0 -
Yes, everyone knows it's only immigrants breastfeeding that causes global warmingblackburn63 said:
I'm surprised you even bothered replying Mr Tyndall. It's the same as the breastfeeding thing, several on here are busy googling the smoking gun over something Nigel didn't say.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
It's pathetic.0 -
While I don't seriously advocate putting men under a curfew, there is something implicit in what @Cyclefree is saying that I strongly agree with which is that the burden of this.. situation.. cannot be allowed to fall entirely on women. I think all of us, though we disagree about some other subjects, are united in outrage about this, but I don't think it's enough for those of us who are men to be outraged. I think we need to act as we would if it were we who were directly threatened. I think we need to try to see this from a woman's point of view.blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.0 -
That's on FBN on the 14th. Moderators Maria Bartiromo and Neil Cavuto. It's from North Charleston SC. There is the happy hour debate then the main debate.Speedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only (!) 7 qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
Two weeks later, on the 28th, Fox News hosts a GOP debate in Des Moines IA. Hosts are Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly and Chris Wallace.
The intriguing one is the February 26 debate. The network has yet to be announced after the disaster for CNBC that was their debate. They took such a ratings hit after that debate that Fox Business Network is approaching CNBC's ratings.
0 -
blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?blackburn63 said:
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.
Of course it is wrong to punish millions of innocent men. I agree with you. But, with respect, you are missing the point. You are willing to permit the punishment of millions of innocent women. Why is the punishment of innocent men so much worse than the punishment of women?
Isn't the assumption implicit in that precisely the same attitude that some of the attackers have - that women are worth less than men?
Let me quote from that Nawaz article:-
"Former Israeli prime minster Golda Meir may have done and said many things people disagree with, but one of her stances is difficult to argue with. When there was an outbreak of nighttime assaults against women in Israel, a minister in the cabinet suggested a curfew to keep women in after dark. “But it’s the men who are attacking the women,” she retorted. “If there’s to be a curfew, let the men stay at home, not the women.”
I don't want any curfews. I don't want a load of young men from failed states with barbarous cultures in Europe. But the Germans let them in. And I don't think it should be German women who should suffer the consequences.
Rather than men getting outraged at the idea of a curfews on them perhaps they could channel some of that outrage into doing something about the problem. That was what Wanderer was suggesting. And he had a point.0 -
Exactly so. And not assume that an infringement of men's freedom is worse than an infringement of women's freedom.Wanderer said:
While I don't seriously advocate putting men under a curfew, there is something implicit in what @Cyclefree is saying that I strongly agree with which is that the burden of this.. situation.. cannot be allowed to fall entirely on women. I think all of us, though we disagree about some other subjects, are united in outrage about this, but I don't think it's enough for those of us who are men to be outraged. I think we need to act as we would if it were we who were directly threatened. I think we need to try to see this from a woman's point of view.blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.0 -
Spoke too soon, second N.H poll (a phone poll) for the night, this time from NH1 :HYUFD said:
At the moment most Iowa polls are showing Cruz then Trump with Rubio thirdSpeedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.
http://www.nh1.com/news/new-nh1-news-poll-donald-trump-leads-in-nh-but-jeb-bush-narrowly-edges-john-kasich-for-2nd/
Trump 32
Bush 12
Kasich 12
Christie 11
Cruz 10
Rubio 10
Fiorina 5
Carson 4
Paul 3
The using the average for the 3 N.H polls of today and yesterday it seems that Trump is just above 30% with five other candidates clustered just above 10%.0 -
Ffs.Wanderer said:
While I don't seriously advocate putting men under a curfew, there is something implicit in what @Cyclefree is saying that I strongly agree with which is that the burden of this.. situation.. cannot be allowed to fall entirely on women. I think all of us, though we disagree about some other subjects, are united in outrage about this, but I don't think it's enough for those of us who are men to be outraged. I think we need to act as we would if it were we who were directly threatened. I think we need to try to see this from a woman's point of view.blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.
Act? What do you mean act?
Look, plenty of us have been warning for ages what would happen if people from a medieval culture are let loose in liberal western cities, we've been called all sorts of names. Now, after the horse has well and truly bolted you want to keep all men indoors. Have you ignored what happened in Rotherham and other cities?
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never comitted any crime whatsoever, be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of men who see women as blow up dolls?
0 -
To be fair UKIP should have been well aware of his views before he defected and should never have allowed him to join in the first place. They kind of left themselves open to the ridicule. We all now that the other parties are hypocrites when it comes to this sort of thing so UKIP need to be absolutely tight when it comes to vetting potential representatives. Something they have failed to do adequately in the past.blackburn63 said:
I'm surprised you even bothered replying Mr Tyndall. It's the same as the breastfeeding thing, several on here are busy googling the smoking gun over something Nigel didn't say.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
It's pathetic.
0 -
Kasich!Speedy said:
Spoke too soon, second N.H poll (a phone poll) for the night, this time from NH1 :HYUFD said:
At the moment most Iowa polls are showing Cruz then Trump with Rubio thirdSpeedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.
http://www.nh1.com/news/new-nh1-news-poll-donald-trump-leads-in-nh-but-jeb-bush-narrowly-edges-john-kasich-for-2nd/
Trump 32
Bush 12
Kasich 12
Christie 11
Cruz 10
Rubio 10
Fiorina 5
Carson 4
Paul 3
I'd forgotten all about him0 -
Fox has all GOP candidates beating Hillary except Bush in their new poll but bear in mind Fox is also the only national poll which has had Trump beating her in earlier pollsrcs1000 said:Regarding Cruz and a potential legal case against him on the basis that he was born in Canada, can I just ask: what the hell are the Dems doing?
Cruz is the only candidate that Hillary would comfortably beat.
"Rubio (50-41 percent) and Cruz (50-43 percent) perform best against the presumptive Democratic nominee. Rubio has a nine-point advantage and Cruz is up by seven.
Trump tops Clinton by three points (47-44 percent) and Bush ties at 44 percent each."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-cruz-top-gop-race-nationally.html0 -
It's typical of the liberal-left to try to imply that men as a whole are somehow to blame for what happened in Germany. No. Those to blame are the people who carried out the attacks, and no-one else.0
-
The most crucial debate is of course the one on the 28th, it's just 3 days before the Iowa caucus.Tim_B said:
That's on FBN on the 14th. Moderators Maria Bartiromo and Neil Cavuto. It's from North Charleston SC. There is the happy hour debate then the main debate.Speedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only (!) 7 qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
Two weeks later, on the 28th, Fox News hosts a GOP debate in Des Moines IA. Hosts are Bret Baier, Megyn Kelly and Chris Wallace.
The intriguing one is the February 26 debate. The network has yet to be announced after the disaster for CNBC that was their debate. They took such a ratings hit after that debate that Fox Business Network is approaching CNBC's ratings.
Goodnight.0 -
Lay Rubio.Speedy said:
Spoke too soon, second N.H poll (a phone poll) for the night, this time from NH1 :HYUFD said:
At the moment most Iowa polls are showing Cruz then Trump with Rubio thirdSpeedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.
http://www.nh1.com/news/new-nh1-news-poll-donald-trump-leads-in-nh-but-jeb-bush-narrowly-edges-john-kasich-for-2nd/
Trump 32
Bush 12
Kasich 12
Christie 11
Cruz 10
Rubio 10
Fiorina 5
Carson 4
Paul 3
The using the average for the 3 N.H polls of today and yesterday it seems that Trump is just above 30% with five other candidates clustered just above 10%.0 -
Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.0 -
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never committed any crime whatsoever BUT WHO IS FEMALE AND AT RISK be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of women who see women as blow up dolls?blackburn63 said:
Ffs.Wanderer said:
While I don't seriously advocate putting men under a curfew, there is something implicit in what @Cyclefree is saying that I strongly agree with which is that the burden of this.. situation.. cannot be allowed to fall entirely on women. I think all of us, though we disagree about some other subjects, are united in outrage about this, but I don't think it's enough for those of us who are men to be outraged. I think we need to act as we would if it were we who were directly threatened. I think we need to try to see this from a woman's point of view.blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.
Act? What do you mean act?
Look, plenty of us have been warning for ages what would happen if people from a medieval culture are let loose in liberal western cities, we've been called all sorts of names. Now, after the horse has well and truly bolted you want to keep all men indoors. Have you ignored what happened in Rotherham and other cities?
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never comitted any crime whatsoever, be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of men who see women as blow up dolls?
Fixed it for you.
0 -
He's out on Betfair at 360-1rcs1000 said:
Kasich!Speedy said:
Spoke too soon, second N.H poll (a phone poll) for the night, this time from NH1 :HYUFD said:
At the moment most Iowa polls are showing Cruz then Trump with Rubio thirdSpeedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.
http://www.nh1.com/news/new-nh1-news-poll-donald-trump-leads-in-nh-but-jeb-bush-narrowly-edges-john-kasich-for-2nd/
Trump 32
Bush 12
Kasich 12
Christie 11
Cruz 10
Rubio 10
Fiorina 5
Carson 4
Paul 3
I'd forgotten all about him0 -
That's rings a bell now that you mention it. Yes, that is harsh.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
Is it the case that UKIP comes under more scrutiny than the pre-coalition Lib Dems did, inspite of having far fewer MPs?0 -
@cyclefree
I find your stance extraordinary, it reminds me of Germaine Greer saying all men are rapists.
Cologne has been, as far as I'm aware, a perfectly safe place for women for a long time, it is absolutely clear who is committing these heinous crimes, they must be punished severely. And as importantly there must be absolute acceptance of who is committing the crime and why.
I'm astonished, it's as if some people have just landed here from another planet.
0 -
You know I think I'll shred those Fox News Polls from my files, if it's so easy for them to create a poll that shows those results then it's easy for them to produce a poll showing their favourite result in the primaries too.HYUFD said:
Fox has all GOP candidates beating Hillary except Bush in their new poll but bear in mind Fox is also the only national poll which has had Trump beating her in earlier pollsrcs1000 said:Regarding Cruz and a potential legal case against him on the basis that he was born in Canada, can I just ask: what the hell are the Dems doing?
Cruz is the only candidate that Hillary would comfortably beat.
"Rubio (50-41 percent) and Cruz (50-43 percent) perform best against the presumptive Democratic nominee. Rubio has a nine-point advantage and Cruz is up by seven.
Trump tops Clinton by three points (47-44 percent) and Bush ties at 44 percent each."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-cruz-top-gop-race-nationally.html0 -
Ed is, what's the word?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/ed-miliband-stared-me-out-on-the-tube-a3151091.html0 -
I think we'll call that one of the more pessimistic predictions seen to date. Let's hope you're wrong!CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
Good night.0 -
If you're going to put money on the US election primaries, remember two things -
1. Polls tighten the closer to the voting day you get.
2. Caucuses can produce very odd results.0 -
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
0 -
Are you for real?Wanderer said:
That's rings a bell now that you mention it. Yes, that is harsh.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
Is it the case that UKIP comes under more scrutiny than the pre-coalition Lib Dems did, inspite of having far fewer MPs?
0 -
You see, that is why I think that none of them will drop out before N.H. thus allowing Trump an easy win there, because who of the five will actually be persuaded if they are all tied for second place in the polls and thus think they have an equal chance?rcs1000 said:
Kasich!Speedy said:
Spoke too soon, second N.H poll (a phone poll) for the night, this time from NH1 :HYUFD said:
At the moment most Iowa polls are showing Cruz then Trump with Rubio thirdSpeedy said:
There is yet another GOP debate next week, by it's rules looking at the polls it seems that Paul and Fiorina won't make it on stage, it's first 6 nationally or first 5 in Iowa and N.H., only 7 (!) qualify for that.HYUFD said:
I added them with the national figures here againSpeedy said:
You beat me too it, but not in N.H.HYUFD said:Iowa Fox GOP
Cruz 27(-1)
Trump 23(-3)
Rubio 15(+2)
Carson 9(-1)
Bush 7(+2)
N.H Fox poll:
Trump 33 +6
Rubio 15 +2
Cruz 12 +1
Bush 9 0
Kasich 7 0
Christie 5 -1
Paul 5 +2
Carson 4 -5
Fiorina 3 0
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-holds-commanding-lead-in-new-hampshire.html
Fox National GOP Trump 35, Cruz 20 Rubio 13, Carson 10
Dems Clinton 54,Sanders 39
I'm looking now almost exclusively on Iowa and N.H polls now, it's only a little more than 3 weeks till the voting starts there.
We need more Iowa polls, PPP is doing one but it's not published until next week.
Goodnight.
http://www.nh1.com/news/new-nh1-news-poll-donald-trump-leads-in-nh-but-jeb-bush-narrowly-edges-john-kasich-for-2nd/
Trump 32
Bush 12
Kasich 12
Christie 11
Cruz 10
Rubio 10
Fiorina 5
Carson 4
Paul 3
I'd forgotten all about him
0 -
I could tell horror stories of the vetting processRichard_Tyndall said:
To be fair UKIP should have been well aware of his views before he defected and should never have allowed him to join in the first place. They kind of left themselves open to the ridicule. We all now that the other parties are hypocrites when it comes to this sort of thing so UKIP need to be absolutely tight when it comes to vetting potential representatives. Something they have failed to do adequately in the past.blackburn63 said:
I'm surprised you even bothered replying Mr Tyndall. It's the same as the breastfeeding thing, several on here are busy googling the smoking gun over something Nigel didn't say.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
It's pathetic.
0 -
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.0 -
I wouldn't ignore them completely but they do lean GOP, RCP includes them in its poll average but still has Hillary leading all but Rubio on the GOP side overallSpeedy said:
You know I think I'll shred those Fox News Polls from my files, if it's so easy for them to create a poll that shows those results then it's easy for them to produce a poll showing their favourite result in the primaries too.HYUFD said:
Fox has all GOP candidates beating Hillary except Bush in their new poll but bear in mind Fox is also the only national poll which has had Trump beating her in earlier pollsrcs1000 said:Regarding Cruz and a potential legal case against him on the basis that he was born in Canada, can I just ask: what the hell are the Dems doing?
Cruz is the only candidate that Hillary would comfortably beat.
"Rubio (50-41 percent) and Cruz (50-43 percent) perform best against the presumptive Democratic nominee. Rubio has a nine-point advantage and Cruz is up by seven.
Trump tops Clinton by three points (47-44 percent) and Bush ties at 44 percent each."
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/01/08/fox-news-poll-trump-cruz-top-gop-race-nationally.html0 -
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
0 -
You only have to think back to how Europe was 15, then 10, then 5 years ago, economically, socially, etc... the deterioration is stark, accelerating and clearly there is an inevitability about it.kle4 said:
I think we'll call that one of the more pessimistic predictions seen to date. Let's hope you're wrong!CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
Good night.
The UK's first step should be to leave the EU and then comprehensively rethink multi-culturalism and create a society where tolerance does not extend to the point that we destroy ourselves.
The Germans wanted to be uber-tolerant. Now they're curfewing by gender.0 -
CornishBlue said:
Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
It is not a men v women thing. Or it should not be. But the response of some men has been outrage at the idea that in the forced choice of on whom a curfew should be imposed, some of us have suggested that it should be imposed on the sex from which the attackers are likely to come rather than on the possible victims.
Such a choice is ludicrous of course. We should not be in this situation. But we are. So what's it to be guys?
1. Put up with sexual crimes on our streets and pray that it does not happen to your daughters.
2. A de facto curfew on women.
3. A curfew on all men.
4. A curfew on all men of North African and Arabic appearance.
5. A curfew on all immigrants.
6. Arresting, conducting and deporting (to where?) the criminals.
Because at the moment what's happening is a mix of 1 and 2. Not good enough. Seriously not good enough.
So enough with male outrage at the very idea of having to have your freedoms restricted - welcome to our world - and let's hear your actual solutions to this problem now. And not "we shouldn't be in this position".
0 -
You disagree?blackburn63 said:
Are you for real?Wanderer said:
That's rings a bell now that you mention it. Yes, that is harsh.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
Is it the case that UKIP comes under more scrutiny than the pre-coalition Lib Dems did, inspite of having far fewer MPs?0 -
I don't think now they are really. Having failed to win many seats at the GE they have rather been ignored since. But certainly prior to the previous elections they were under far more scrutiny than any other party. Trying to point out the rampant homophobia amongst some Tory councilors was like whistling in the wind.Wanderer said:
That's rings a bell now that you mention it. Yes, that is harsh.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
Is it the case that UKIP comes under more scrutiny than the pre-coalition Lib Dems did, inspite of having far fewer MPs?0 -
It's been explained to you - it is better for society that all women are punished than a possibility of blame being attached to someone who is a member of a "minority".Cyclefree said:
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never committed any crime whatsoever BUT WHO IS FEMALE AND AT RISK be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of women who see women as blow up dolls?blackburn63 said:
Ffs.Wanderer said:
While I don't seriously advocate putting men under a curfew, there is something implicit in what @Cyclefree is saying that I strongly agree with which is that the burden of this.. situation.. cannot be allowed to fall entirely on women. I think all of us, though we disagree about some other subjects, are united in outrage about this, but I don't think it's enough for those of us who are men to be outraged. I think we need to act as we would if it were we who were directly threatened. I think we need to try to see this from a woman's point of view.blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.
Act? What do you mean act?
Look, plenty of us have been warning for ages what would happen if people from a medieval culture are let loose in liberal western cities, we've been called all sorts of names. Now, after the horse has well and truly bolted you want to keep all men indoors. Have you ignored what happened in Rotherham and other cities?
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never comitted any crime whatsoever, be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of men who see women as blow up dolls?
Fixed it for you.0 -
Can you just stop the gender warfare, because it's making me physically sick.Cyclefree said:CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
It is not a men v women thing. Or it should not be. But the response of some men has been outrage at the idea that in the forced choice of on whom a curfew should be imposed, some of us have suggested that it should be imposed on the sex from which the attackers are likely to come rather than on the possible victims.
Such a choice is ludicrous of course. We should not be in this situation. But we are. So what's it to be guys?
1. Put up with sexual crimes on our streets and pray that it does not happen to your daughters.
2. A de facto curfew on women.
3. A curfew on all men.
4. A curfew on all men of North African and Arabic appearance.
5. A curfew on all immigrants.
6. Arresting, conducting and deporting (to where?) the criminals.
Because at the moment what's happening is a mix of 1 and 2. Not good enough. Seriously not good enough.
So enough with male outrage at the very idea of having to have your freedoms restricted - welcome to our world - and let's hear your actual solutions to this problem now. And not "we shouldn't be in this position".
This is EXACTLY why we are in such a mess. This way of thinking. There should be no curfews. Certainly not based on gender. There is a cause for the present problems. That cause is not one gender or the other. It is mass, uncontrolled immigration from parts of the world that are so utterly backward that their men believe that women (and non-Muslim/white women in particular) should be raped - and practice and enjoy that too.
So please just stop. Focus your attention on the enemy. Don't divide the civilized people of the world into their genders. That is reverting to exactly the mentality of our enemy.0 -
@cyclefree, are you a lawyer?Cyclefree said:CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
It is not a men v women thing. Or it should not be. But the response of some men has been outrage at the idea that in the forced choice of on whom a curfew should be imposed, some of us have suggested that it should be imposed on the sex from which the attackers are likely to come rather than on the possible victims.
Such a choice is ludicrous of course. We should not be in this situation. But we are. So what's it to be guys?
1. Put up with sexual crimes on our streets and pray that it does not happen to your daughters.
2. A de facto curfew on women.
3. A curfew on all men.
4. A curfew on all men of North African and Arabic appearance.
5. A curfew on all immigrants.
6. Arresting, conducting and deporting (to where?) the criminals.
Because at the moment what's happening is a mix of 1 and 2. Not good enough. Seriously not good enough.
So enough with male outrage at the very idea of having to have your freedoms restricted - welcome to our world - and let's hear your actual solutions to this problem now. And not "we shouldn't be in this position".
Anyway.
1. Under no circumstances.
2. Don't be ridiculous, everywhere or just Cologne?
3. See 2.
4. I wouldn't want that, I can see them imposing it on themselves out of fear.
5. As ridiculous as the others.
6. That would be a start, you know, punishing people that have committed crimes.
0 -
I do not consider all men rapists nor do I want a curfew. I am trying to point out to you that it should not be the victims or likely victims - women - who should be punished. You are more outraged at the idea of men being punished than of women being punished. You seem to give the impression that you value men more highly than women.blackburn63 said:@cyclefree
I find your stance extraordinary, it reminds me of Germaine Greer saying all men are rapists.
Cologne has been, as far as I'm aware, a perfectly safe place for women for a long time, it is absolutely clear who is committing these heinous crimes, they must be punished severely. And as importantly there must be absolute acceptance of who is committing the crime and why.
I'm astonished, it's as if some people have just landed here from another planet.
I wholeheartedly agree that we need to be clear as to who is doing these crimes and punish them. And we should not be letting into our countries young men from societies and cultures with such appalling views about women. I have said this repeatedly.
But you don't seem very bothered that until that happens women are expected to bear the brunt, either by being at risk or by having their freedoms curtailed. That is the point I am trying to make to you.
Anyway it's late now. So goodnight all.
0 -
1 - Proper immigration controls - even for those claiming asylumCyclefree said:CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
It is not a men v women thing. Or it should not be. But the response of some men has been outrage at the idea that in the forced choice of on whom a curfew should be imposed, some of us have suggested that it should be imposed on the sex from which the attackers are likely to come rather than on the possible victims.
Such a choice is ludicrous of course. We should not be in this situation. But we are. So what's it to be guys?
1. Put up with sexual crimes on our streets and pray that it does not happen to your daughters.
2. A de facto curfew on women.
3. A curfew on all men.
4. A curfew on all men of North African and Arabic appearance.
5. A curfew on all immigrants.
6. Arresting, conducting and deporting (to where?) the criminals.
Because at the moment what's happening is a mix of 1 and 2. Not good enough. Seriously not good enough.
So enough with male outrage at the very idea of having to have your freedoms restricted - welcome to our world - and let's hear your actual solutions to this problem now. And not "we shouldn't be in this position".
2 - Apply the rule of law equally throughout every community - there can be no more no-go areas due to 'cultural sensitivity'
3 - Suspension of human rights laws that prevent the deportation of convicted criminals - if you commit a crime, you have invalidated any claim you have to reside in the EU.
Those are real world solutions that mean we start reclaiming control over our borders and our streets. They will take time - but we need to draw a line in the sand and make it clear that we will not tolerate the sort of behaviour towards anyone that we are seeing.0 -
Well the level of media interest in UKIP is going to ramp up again. Possibly in much more propitious circumstances. The focus will really be on the issue, not what any UKIP councillor has or hasn't said. (God, that's a naive-seeming thing I've just said. I think it's true for the next few months though.)Richard_Tyndall said:
I don't think now they are really. Having failed to win many seats at the GE they have rather been ignored since. But certainly prior to the previous elections they were under far more scrutiny than any other party. Trying to point out the rampant homophobia amongst some Tory councilors was like whistling in the wind.Wanderer said:
That's rings a bell now that you mention it. Yes, that is harsh.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think the biggest annoyance about that particular episode for UKIP was that the person concerned had been saying exactly the same thing as a Tory councillor and no one had paid a blind bit of notice. After he had left the Tories and joined UKIP (and you have to ask what the hell were UKIP doing letting him join?) he repeated the claims and suddenly it is big news. UKIP kicked him out but the damage was done. The funny thing being that the Tories had done nothing about him in spite of lots of anti-gay comments whilst he was one of theirs.Wanderer said:
I agree. The gay-marriage-floods thing especially. It has stuck in people's minds simply because it's funny. Unfair on intelligent kippers, but there you go.
Is it the case that UKIP comes under more scrutiny than the pre-coalition Lib Dems did, inspite of having far fewer MPs?0 -
My daughter is determined this year to go and buy her own home to be independent. After going through the mortgage options etc, my major piece of advice to her is - buy a gun. I'll pay for it and the firearms training course.Cyclefree said:
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never committed any crime whatsoever BUT WHO IS FEMALE AND AT RISK be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of women who see women as blow up dolls?blackburn63 said:
Ffs.Wanderer said:
While I don't seriously advocate putting men under a curfew, there is something implicit in what @Cyclefree is saying that I strongly agree with which is that the burden of this.. situation.. cannot be allowed to fall entirely on women. I think all of us, though we disagree about some other subjects, are united in outrage about this, but I don't think it's enough for those of us who are men to be outraged. I think we need to act as we would if it were we who were directly threatened. I think we need to try to see this from a woman's point of view.blackburn63 said:
I find that astonishing, you are encouraging the punishment of millions of innocent men.Cyclefree said:
Of course it's unfair to all those young men who are capable of being outside in public without molesting women. It's just as unfair on those women who feel at risk or fearful. So whom shall we value more? The men? Or the women who are at risk of being the victims of crime?
Currently the approach has been to value the men more and place less value on the women victims, who are expected - despite having done nothing wrong - to take avoiding action.
We are rewarding bad behaviour and punishing the innocent. Morally reprehensible. And wrong.
Look, let's stop tiptoeing around the issue here, a group of men, numbers unknown, have been raised to believe that women are to be treated as they see fit, it is abhorrent and must be dealt with in the strictest terms, to impose a curfew on millions of German men because of the vile behaviour of immigrants is just plain wrong.
Act? What do you mean act?
Look, plenty of us have been warning for ages what would happen if people from a medieval culture are let loose in liberal western cities, we've been called all sorts of names. Now, after the horse has well and truly bolted you want to keep all men indoors. Have you ignored what happened in Rotherham and other cities?
Why should I, a law abiding citizen who has never comitted any crime whatsoever, be locked indoors because my stupid govt has encouraged the importation of men who see women as blow up dolls?
Fixed it for you.
I don't own a gun but as an older male I'm not really threatened.0 -
It does not help when people write nonsense like
The news this afternoon that the BNP is no longer officially a political party has been dismissed by party officials as an oversight. The move has, apparently, been caused by the failure of the party to send in the fee of £25 by the the due date with the result that it has been removed from the official list.
The BNP still exists ("officially" (whatever that means) or otherwise) as a political party, just as much as it did yesterday. Not renewing its registration simply means that it is no longer registered under the terms of PPERA, and, as such, its candidates cannot use its name or description on ballot papers. Not being registered does not mean it somehow doesn't exist.0 -
Personally I think the one we should be concentrating on is #6. It should be made absolutely clear that our society and our modern culture is based on the principle that everyone is equal under the law and that applies to women and gays just as much as anyone else. Any immigrant who does not abide by these principles should be subject to deportation.Cyclefree said:CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
It is not a men v women thing. Or it should not be. But the response of some men has been outrage at the idea that in the forced choice of on whom a curfew should be imposed, some of us have suggested that it should be imposed on the sex from which the attackers are likely to come rather than on the possible victims.
Such a choice is ludicrous of course. We should not be in this situation. But we are. So what's it to be guys?
1. Put up with sexual crimes on our streets and pray that it does not happen to your daughters.
2. A de facto curfew on women.
3. A curfew on all men.
4. A curfew on all men of North African and Arabic appearance.
5. A curfew on all immigrants.
6. Arresting, conducting and deporting (to where?) the criminals.
Because at the moment what's happening is a mix of 1 and 2. Not good enough. Seriously not good enough.
So enough with male outrage at the very idea of having to have your freedoms restricted - welcome to our world - and let's hear your actual solutions to this problem now. And not "we shouldn't be in this position".
Immigrants need to earn the right to stay in our country. They do that by behaving as good, responsible citizens. If they do not do so then they should lose that right. I honestly don't care where they get deported to. They do not deserve that consideration if they are attacking people in our country.
By the way, that should apply to an Australian, a Frenchman or a Brazilian just as much as a Syrian or North African.0 -
How dare you say I'm more outraged at the idea of men being punished than women?Cyclefree said:
I do not consider all men rapists nor do I want a curfew. I am trying to point out to you that it should not be the victims or likely victims - women - who should be punished. You are more outraged at the idea of men being punished than of women being punished. You seem to give the impression that you value men more highly than women.blackburn63 said:@cyclefree
I find your stance extraordinary, it reminds me of Germaine Greer saying all men are rapists.
Cologne has been, as far as I'm aware, a perfectly safe place for women for a long time, it is absolutely clear who is committing these heinous crimes, they must be punished severely. And as importantly there must be absolute acceptance of who is committing the crime and why.
I'm astonished, it's as if some people have just landed here from another planet.
I wholeheartedly agree that we need to be clear as to who is doing these crimes and punish them. And we should not be letting into our countries young men from societies and cultures with such appalling views about women. I have said this repeatedly.
But you don't seem very bothered that until that happens women are expected to bear the brunt, either by being at risk or by having their freedoms curtailed. That is the point I am trying to make to you.
Anyway it's late now. So goodnight all.
I've never said any such thing and for you to resort to such utter lies is beneath contempt.
I'm beginning to realise you're part of the problem, waving this stupid feminist card around when just about every man I know could solve this problem in a couple of weeks. You want to turn everything into a pathetic feminist campaign, open your eyes for heavens sake and accept what going on underneath them, you're part of the problem, you're a million miles from a solution.
0 -
-
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.0 -
Nah, far too rational and pragmatic. Much better to either stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening, or to blurt out the tried-and-tested "white men are to blame for everything" diatribe.blackburn63 said:
6. That would be a start, you know, punishing people that have committed crimes.
It's times like this one has to turn to good ol' Starkey for a reminder of how to destroy the horrible trendy-lefty-fascists...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj9dA6E3fJw0 -
I totally agree with that. I think we need to get on and do it. Your last sentence is quite a key point also.Richard_Tyndall said:
Personally I think the one we should be concentrating on is #6. It should be made absolutely clear that our society and our modern culture is based on the principle that everyone is equal under the law and that applies to women and gays just as much as anyone else. Any immigrant who does not abide by these principles should be subject to deportation.Cyclefree said:CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
It is not a men v women thing. Or it should not be. But the response of some men has been outrage at the idea that in the forced choice of on whom a curfew should be imposed, some of us have suggested that it should be imposed on the sex from which the attackers are likely to come rather than on the possible victims.
Such a choice is ludicrous of course. We should not be in this situation. But we are. So what's it to be guys?
1. Put up with sexual crimes on our streets and pray that it does not happen to your daughters.
2. A de facto curfew on women.
3. A curfew on all men.
4. A curfew on all men of North African and Arabic appearance.
5. A curfew on all immigrants.
6. Arresting, conducting and deporting (to where?) the criminals.
Because at the moment what's happening is a mix of 1 and 2. Not good enough. Seriously not good enough.
So enough with male outrage at the very idea of having to have your freedoms restricted - welcome to our world - and let's hear your actual solutions to this problem now. And not "we shouldn't be in this position".
Immigrants need to earn the right to stay in our country. They do that by behaving as good, responsible citizens. If they do not do so then they should lose that right. I honestly don't care where they get deported to. They do not deserve that consideration if they are attacking people in our country.
By the way, that should apply to an Australian, a Frenchman or a Brazilian just as much as a Syrian or North African.0 -
@AndyJS
'It's typical of the liberal-left to try to imply that men as a whole are somehow to blame for what happened in Germany. No. Those to blame are the people who carried out the attacks, and no-one else.'
And the identical attacks that took place in Helsinki by pure coincidence were carried by the same ethnic group as in Germany.
And again by pure coincidence Finland has had one of the largest pro rata intakes of so called 'asylum seekers'.
0 -
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
0 -
blackburn63 said:
How dare you say I'm more outraged at the idea of men being punished than women?Cyclefree said:
I do not consider all men rapists nor do I want a curfew. I am trying to point out to you that it should not be the victims or likely victims - women - who should be punished. You are more outraged at the idea of men being punished than of women being punished. You seem to give the impression that you value men more highly than women.blackburn63 said:@cyclefree
I find your stance extraordinary, it reminds me of Germaine Greer saying all men are rapists.
Cologne has been, as far as I'm aware, a perfectly safe place for women for a long time, it is absolutely clear who is committing these heinous crimes, they must be punished severely. And as importantly there must be absolute acceptance of who is committing the crime and why.
I'm astonished, it's as if some people have just landed here from another planet.
I wholeheartedly agree that we need to be clear as to who is doing these crimes and punish them. And we should not be letting into our countries young men from societies and cultures with such appalling views about women. I have said this repeatedly.
But you don't seem very bothered that until that happens women are expected to bear the brunt, either by being at risk or by having their freedoms curtailed. That is the point I am trying to make to you.
Anyway it's late now. So goodnight all.
I've never said any such thing and for you to resort to such utter lies is beneath contempt.
I'm beginning to realise you're part of the problem, waving this stupid feminist card around when just about every man I know could solve this problem in a couple of weeks. You want to turn everything into a pathetic feminist campaign, open your eyes for heavens sake and accept what going on underneath them, you're part of the problem, you're a million miles from a solution.
You clearly have not read my posts where I have stated that it is not a gender issue, I don't want a curfew and think that it is a mistake to let in large numbers of young men from failed states and very different cultures to our own into Europe. I could hardly have been clearer on these points.
You are rightly outraged at the idea of punishing innocent men for the crimes of a few. But I have asked you why you think it acceptable that, until a solution is found, women should - in effect - be punished by being told to stay at home to avoid the risk of assault. And, forgive me if I have missed this, that has not caused you quite so much anger.
0 -
Hyacinth really is useless isn't she. I can see what JJ sees in her.Plato_Says said:0 -
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?0 -
Just reading that apparently before Christmas ZDF deliberately didn't run a serious sex crime on their equivalent of Crime Watch that was committed by another one of these "North African or Arab" appearance. They gave the reason the Stage III answer.0
-
You know, it would have been much simpler (and nicer for the victims) if they hadn't been allowed to just walk into the country (or, even, freely bused in...) without any checks or control.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
Stable doors, horses, bolting...0 -
@cyclefree
I have not at any stage said that a curfew, inadvertently or not, should be imposed on women, or indeed anybody.
As you said goodnight earlier I'll bid you the same.
I will view any further discussions in a different light.0 -
Both.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
But the implicit difference between you and I is I wouldn't have let them in in the first place.
0 -
Eh? I haven't even expressed an opinion on the latter point.blackburn63 said:
Both.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
But the implicit difference between you and I is I wouldn't have let them in in the first place.0 -
Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all.CornishBlue said:
You know, it would have been much simpler (and nicer for the victims) if they hadn't been allowed to just walk into the country (or, even, freely bused in...) without any checks or control.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
Stable doors, horses, bolting...0 -
BrilliantCornishBlue said:
Nah, far too rational and pragmatic. Much better to either stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening, or to blurt out the tried-and-tested "white men are to blame for everything" diatribe.blackburn63 said:
6. That would be a start, you know, punishing people that have committed crimes.
It's times like this one has to turn to good ol' Starkey for a reminder of how to destroy the horrible trendy-lefty-fascists...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj9dA6E3fJw
0 -
And good ol'Starkey gets the ban hammer from some uni's, while CAGE get invited in....bonkers.blackburn63 said:
BrilliantCornishBlue said:
Nah, far too rational and pragmatic. Much better to either stick your head in the sand and pretend nothing is happening, or to blurt out the tried-and-tested "white men are to blame for everything" diatribe.blackburn63 said:
6. That would be a start, you know, punishing people that have committed crimes.
It's times like this one has to turn to good ol' Starkey for a reminder of how to destroy the horrible trendy-lefty-fascists...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oj9dA6E3fJw0 -
Wanderer said:
Eh? I haven't even expressed an opinion on the latter point.blackburn63 said:
Both.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
But the implicit difference between you and I is I wouldn't have let them in in the first place.
Well go on then
0 -
Impose a curfewFrancisUrquhart said:
Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all.CornishBlue said:
You know, it would have been much simpler (and nicer for the victims) if they hadn't been allowed to just walk into the country (or, even, freely bused in...) without any checks or control.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
Stable doors, horses, bolting...
0 -
Long term..what are they going to do? What are all these people going to do for work, for housing, etc. Germany is a high skill, highly efficient, high tech economy. At the very least, all these people are going to need massive amounts of training. Syria ain't exactly famous for it luxury car production or high spec tooling.blackburn63 said:
Impose a curfew0 -
Hehe. OK. I wouldn't have encouraged refugees to come to Germany. I don't think it was wise for Germany or Europe.blackburn63 said:Wanderer said:
Eh? I haven't even expressed an opinion on the latter point.blackburn63 said:
Both.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
But the implicit difference between you and I is I wouldn't have let them in in the first place.
Well go on then0 -
I live 22 miles from France, that stretch of water has saved us for centuries.FrancisUrquhart said:
Long term..what are they going to do? What are all these people going to do for work, for housing, etc. Germany is a high skill, highly efficient, high tech economy. At the very least, all these people are going to need massive amounts of training. Syria ain't exactly famous for it luxury car production or high spec tooling.blackburn63 said:
Impose a curfew
0 -
Hmmm... should have thought about that earlier.FrancisUrquhart said:
Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all.
People like myself did. I personally experienced the debate - between those who were aghast at the open door policy and those where aghast at those who were aghast - at my place of work. Those who loudly supported letting in endless millions of incompatible migrants (and most are just that: economic migrants, not refugees) are now (not so) surprisingly quiet. Maybe in ten years time they'll openly admit to having been totally wrong, mindlessly following the dogma of the liberal-left consensus of the Western political class and media.
All those people protesting in favour of endless, uncontrolled open door immigration from North Africa and the Middle East... I wonder if they'll soon start deleting the evidence from their Facebook profiles etc?0 -
It's also possible to have a semi-open door, take some people but not all, which is effectively what we are doing at present.CornishBlue said:
Hmmm... should have thought about that earlier.FrancisUrquhart said:
Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all.
People like myself did. I personally experienced the debate - between those who were aghast at the open door policy and those where aghast at those who were aghast - at my place of work. Those who loudly supported letting in endless millions of incompatible migrants (and most are just that: economic migrants, not refugees) are now (not so) surprisingly quiet. Maybe in ten years time they'll openly admit to having been totally wrong, mindlessly following the dogma of the liberal-left consensus of the Western political class and media.
All those people protesting in favour of endless, uncontrolled open door immigration from North Africa and the Middle East... I wonder if they'll soon start deleting the evidence from their Facebook profiles etc?0 -
Semi open, more like gaping, 600000 last year. God knows what you consider open if 600k is ajar.Wanderer said:
It's also possible to have a semi-open door, take some people but not all, which is effectively what we are doing at present.CornishBlue said:
Hmmm... should have thought about that earlier.FrancisUrquhart said:
Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all.
People like myself did. I personally experienced the debate - between those who were aghast at the open door policy and those where aghast at those who were aghast - at my place of work. Those who loudly supported letting in endless millions of incompatible migrants (and most are just that: economic migrants, not refugees) are now (not so) surprisingly quiet. Maybe in ten years time they'll openly admit to having been totally wrong, mindlessly following the dogma of the liberal-left consensus of the Western political class and media.
All those people protesting in favour of endless, uncontrolled open door immigration from North Africa and the Middle East... I wonder if they'll soon start deleting the evidence from their Facebook profiles etc?
0 -
@FrancisUrquhart
'Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all'
I thought the EU had done a deal with Turkey, free access to Schengen without visas for Turks plus a € 3 billion EU handout but as you say & the TV shows they still keep coming.
Has the the EU has been conned.0 -
We haven't taken anything like that number of people from Syria and North Africa have we?blackburn63 said:
Semi open, more like gaping, 600000 last year. God knows what you consider open if 600k is ajar.Wanderer said:
It's also possible to have a semi-open door, take some people but not all, which is effectively what we are doing at present.CornishBlue said:
Hmmm... should have thought about that earlier.FrancisUrquhart said:
Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all.
People like myself did. I personally experienced the debate - between those who were aghast at the open door policy and those where aghast at those who were aghast - at my place of work. Those who loudly supported letting in endless millions of incompatible migrants (and most are just that: economic migrants, not refugees) are now (not so) surprisingly quiet. Maybe in ten years time they'll openly admit to having been totally wrong, mindlessly following the dogma of the liberal-left consensus of the Western political class and media.
All those people protesting in favour of endless, uncontrolled open door immigration from North Africa and the Middle East... I wonder if they'll soon start deleting the evidence from their Facebook profiles etc?0 -
"Between you and I"? Me! Me! O ye deranged ungrammatical buffoon!blackburn63 said:
Both.Wanderer said:
Deport or imprison the people responsible.blackburn63 said:
So what would you do beyond wringing your hands?Wanderer said:
As I've said a couple of times, I'm not advocating any kind of curfew. Rather, I think we should look at the situation with the kind of urgency we would have if we were faced with that as the alternative. People propose various solutions - @Cyclefree has summarised a few. I have a strong suspicion that none of them will be adopted and that we'll muddle through. Or rather women will muddle though. Which I don't think is OK.blackburn63 said:
Well said Sir.CornishBlue said:
The first duty of a government is to protect its country and its citizens.blackburn63 said:
Well quite, it's only a matter of time before vigilantes in Cologne take the law into their own hands.CornishBlue said:Wow. I can't believe what I am reading in these comments... people turning the situation in Europe into a men v. women thing, rather than what the real battle is, namely the civilized world v. the barbarians.
It's no wonder we are witnessing the end of our civilization here in Europe.
I give it by the end of this year before the first European states break down into violence and/or succumb to fascism.
The German government not only has failed in this in a negligent way, but actually recklessly compromised the security of its territory and people.
The Germans should - and in time, will - rise up. It will be nasty. And it's what happens when ideological idiots like Merkel gain power and abuse it.
Contributors on here that I had previously considered lucid and measured are suggesting locking up all German men.
I'm sure they'd all understand.
I actually don't think there's any disagreement between those of us commenting here tbh. All I'm really saying is we can't let this linger as just one of those things women have to put up with.
What would you do?
But the implicit difference between you and I is I wouldn't have let them in in the first place.
0 -
And you're surprised?john_zims said:@FrancisUrquhart
'Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all'
I thought the EU had done a deal with Turkey, free access to Schengen without visas for Turks plus a € 3 billion EU handout but as you say & the TV shows they still keep coming.
Has the the EU has been conned.
This is Turkey we're talking about. Turkey. We only pretend to be friends with them in order to keep them in NATO, allied against the nutty Russians.
All we've done is open the door (further) to some 80 million Turks, most of which practice that particular religion which is so compatible with the West.0 -
You simply cannot have a European style welfare state and unlimited immigration. The numbers just don't work.john_zims said:@FrancisUrquhart
'Problem is now. They have 1.1 million extra people and still 3000+ people are registering every day...What the bloody hell are they going to do with them all'
I thought the EU had done a deal with Turkey, free access to Schengen without visas for Turks plus a € 3 billion EU handout but as you say & the TV shows they still keep coming.
Has the the EU has been conned.0
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