Undefined discussion subject.
Comments
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LAB to inch it. 3-5% winning margin.
CON down below 15%
LDs to outperform expectations (or at least retain their deposit).
Sir Oink-A-Lot to beat the Greens.0 -
Leaving aside the irony of someone criticising someone else for poor research and in the same breath citing wikipedia, I'm quite puzzled that this is what you've been jumping up and down to tell me: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=frankfurt-based-ihh-2010-07-13JosiasJessop said:
As I said, do some of the 'research' you are so proud of, and either read last night's thread or wiki.
According to the German authorities, one organisation splitting into two in 1997. Seperately run organisations - sure. 'Another organisation with the same initials' - pushing it. It seems notable that the one stopped its activities in Germany when the other begun.
They also fiercely deny being linked to Al Qaeda after being raided by the Turkish police: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/turkish-police-detain-28-in-anti-al-qaeda-op-raid-on-ihh-office.aspx?PageID=238&NID=61000&NewsCatID=341
They also fiercely deny that it was their lorries that were raided with weapons bound for Syria: http://www.todayszaman.com/latest-news_suspicious-of-arms-shipment-turkish-army-stops-truck-bound-for-syria_335503.html
My point, and I don't regret the source I used to illustrate it, was that there are clear reasons to suppose that this NGO is a legitimate target for an airstrike within Syria, as opposed to the 'NGO bread bakery' story which makes it appear that Putin just bombed the local Oxfam shop.
Those who take something from my posting words to that affect will have done so, and I'm glad to have added some nuance to their view of the event. Whether you exhuming this, trumpeting 'Alex Jones' every post, and trying to make me look bad will have added much to the debate is up to you to decide.
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He has the same position as me actually (Mine has alot more money tied up but nets off to this)Tissue_Price said:The ex-MP Tom Harris is on UKIP @ 6/1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12026844/The-Labour-Party-is-asleep-to-the-damage-Ukips-doing-it.html
He's done an Alistair Meeks with his prediction though:
Name
Tom Harris
User
Winner
Labour
Conservative %
12.07
Green %
2.47
Labour %
43.56
Liberal Democrat %
5.27
UKIP %
36.060 -
Oldham
Lab win by
0-5 2/1
5-10 15/8
10-15 9/2
15-20 33/1
20-25 40/1
25+ 50/1
Lab Lose 11/4
Any more for any more???
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Lab by 0-5 is nailed on, given my betfair book and my bet with you...isam said:Oldham
Lab win by
0-5 2/1
5-10 15/8
[...]0 -
I believe the latest wease is "free tatoos (so long as they are of the EU flag)"Richard_Nabavi said:
I was assuming we were all going to be sent one, as part of the generous investment the EU makes in the UK.rcs1000 said:I'm thinking about getting @RichardTyndall an EU advent calendar.
I'm generous like that.0 -
She also went down the Blairite rabbit hole. And didn't really come out of it.Pulpstar said:
What was wrong with Yvette ?Danny565 said:
This depends what you mean by "moderates". There's never going to be a swivel-eyed ultra-Blairite winning the leadership again, true.taffys said:''More likely after 2025, and maybe not even then.''
I don't see the moderates ever winning again. The great mass movement of working people that used to be labour no longer exists.
But the Soft Left is still near-unbeatable in Labour leadership elections IF they offer a good candidate; most members want to win elections while still having just about enough principles to make it worthwhile. The problem was there was perceived to be no Soft Left candidate in this year's leadership election (Burnham could've been it but destroyed it by following Liz Kendall down the Blairite rabbit-hole in the first couple of weeks of the contest, and even though he tried to swerve back later people had stopped trusting him).
What Labour really needs to sort itself out is a not crap Ed Miliband.0 -
I strongly suspect the prediction is from a different Tom Harris - @tnjharris not @MrTCHarrisPulpstar said:
He has the same position as me actually (Mine has alot more money tied up but nets off to this)Tissue_Price said:The ex-MP Tom Harris is on UKIP @ 6/1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12026844/The-Labour-Party-is-asleep-to-the-damage-Ukips-doing-it.html
He's done an Alistair Meeks with his prediction though0 -
UKIP are against bombing Oldham?Pulpstar said:
The Oldham optics could yet be focussing minds - seeing as UKIP are (I think) against bombing.AlastairMeeks said:@PickardJE · 2m2 minutes ago
Sounds like Labour MPs buckling under pressure: leader's office briefing 100 Syria rebels - others suggest it may be down to 30 or 40 now.0 -
I just googled for EU tattoo images - alas no real ones so far!rcs1000 said:
I believe the latest wease is "free tatoos (so long as they are of the EU flag)"Richard_Nabavi said:
I was assuming we were all going to be sent one, as part of the generous investment the EU makes in the UK.rcs1000 said:I'm thinking about getting @RichardTyndall an EU advent calendar.
I'm generous like that.0 -
That is because the black American community dislike Hispanics even more than Trump does.MikeK said:Trump is liked: fancy that!
twitter.com/AllenWest/status/6717088988149923850 -
One for Santa:Sunil_Prasannan said:
You mean a book on shoes??Beverley_C said:
Well... we will not have long to wait. If I win can I swap the book on politics for something shoe-related?rcs1000 said:
40% of the labour vote will turn outBeverley_C said:
Thank you. I see my prediction of Labour squeaking home by a few percent is not widely sharedMarkHopkins said:
You can click on the menu box (top right corner of the prediction frame), or...Beverley_C said:
Where do these predictions show up? (Even I had a go)TheScreamingEagles said:I've made my prediction.
I forgot to put in my winner. But from my prediction it is clear who I expect to win.
Search
Summary
85% of the UKIP vote will turn out
50% of conservatives
50% of libdem
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Book-Shoes-Marta-Morales/dp/1770851240
"the creations of Pons Quitana, Paco Gil, Victoria Spruce, Iris Morata, Cuple, Barbara Bui, BF Coleccion Europa, Caramelo, Chie Miraha, Ellen Ver Beek and many more...."0 -
Yup.William_H said:
She also went down the Blairite rabbit hole. And didn't really come out of it.Pulpstar said:
What was wrong with Yvette ?Danny565 said:
This depends what you mean by "moderates". There's never going to be a swivel-eyed ultra-Blairite winning the leadership again, true.taffys said:''More likely after 2025, and maybe not even then.''
I don't see the moderates ever winning again. The great mass movement of working people that used to be labour no longer exists.
But the Soft Left is still near-unbeatable in Labour leadership elections IF they offer a good candidate; most members want to win elections while still having just about enough principles to make it worthwhile. The problem was there was perceived to be no Soft Left candidate in this year's leadership election (Burnham could've been it but destroyed it by following Liz Kendall down the Blairite rabbit-hole in the first couple of weeks of the contest, and even though he tried to swerve back later people had stopped trusting him).
What Labour really needs to sort itself out is a not crap Ed Miliband.0 -
One, or maybe two out of four there.Ghedebrav said:LAB to inch it. 3-5% winning margin.
CON down below 15%
LDs to outperform expectations (or at least retain their deposit).
Sir Oink-A-Lot to beat the Greens.
I'm guessing you're a Lib Dem with the wishful thinking on the bottom two.0 -
@faisalislam: In interview with me, Labour leader @jeremycorbyn warns MPs "there is no hiding place" for their decisions in the @houseofcommons tomorrow0
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I'd claim that it was a different Alastair Meeks who'd filled out the competition. There would be a slight problem with that though.Tissue_Price said:
I strongly suspect the prediction is from a different Tom Harris - @tnjharris not @MrTCHarrisPulpstar said:
He has the same position as me actually (Mine has alot more money tied up but nets off to this)Tissue_Price said:The ex-MP Tom Harris is on UKIP @ 6/1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12026844/The-Labour-Party-is-asleep-to-the-damage-Ukips-doing-it.html
He's done an Alistair Meeks with his prediction though0 -
@faisalislam: Corbyn tells me he agreed to a free vote "in a spirit of democratic openness"0
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Ha I need UKIP to win or Lab by 16+ #inamessTissue_Price said:
Lab by 0-5 is nailed on, given my betfair book and my bet with you...isam said:Oldham
Lab win by
0-5 2/1
5-10 15/8
[...]0 -
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/12026280/David-Cameron-prepares-for-Syria-air-strikes-after-Jeremy-Corbyn-U-turn-live.html#update-20151201-1606
Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.0 -
Well it took place in October, Mike. Doubt it'd be heading up the BBC's front page right now. Other items in the news and all that.MikeK said:0 -
Mr. P, democratic openness and nowhere to hide. Hmm.0
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That looks like thinly veiled threat.Scott_P said:@faisalislam: In interview with me, Labour leader @jeremycorbyn warns MPs "there is no hiding place" for their decisions in the @houseofcommons tomorrow
'Vote for action if you choose, but remember that Momentum know where you live'.0 -
Someone complaining about me using Wikipedia, when you use PrisonPlanet without verification, is quite delicious. BTW, that was not the only place I checked. I also suggest you read the talk in wiki about it as well - sometimes (although far from always) more enlightening than the actual article.Luckyguy1983 said:
Leaving aside the irony of someone criticising someone else for poor research and in the same breath citing wikipedia, I'm quite puzzled that this is what you've been jumping up and down to tell me: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/default.aspx?pageid=438&n=frankfurt-based-ihh-2010-07-13JosiasJessop said:
As I said, do some of the 'research' you are so proud of, and either read last night's thread or wiki.
(snip)
My point, and I don't regret the source I used to illustrate it, was that there are clear reasons to suppose that this NGO is a legitimate target for an airstrike within Syria, as opposed to the 'NGO bread bakery' story which makes it appear that Putin just bombed the local Oxfam shop.
Those who take something from my posting words to that affect will have done so, and I'm glad to have added some nuance to their view of the event. Whether you exhuming this, trumpeting 'Alex Jones' every post, and trying to make me look bad will have added much to the debate is up to you to decide.
As for your source: it shows that the German and Turkish IHH's are two different organisations. Well done. And note that has nothing to do with your original claim about the Netherlands. A very poor attempt at diversion.
So what we have is that it was not banned in the Netherlands, as you claimed after reading a conspiracy-theory website. Neither was it banned in Germany.
There are 'clear reasons' for the attack in your conspiracy-theorist mind. Alternatively, it might just have been a bakery giving bread charitably to people who need it. You cannot know. I cannot know. But as usual, you cluelessly back Putin.
Thanks for showing once again that your self-satisfied checks for sources are so much bunkum. The only thing that people should take from your words are that you are a clueless tinfoil-hatter. 'Teeth are bone', 'The Olympic was swapped for the Titanic', and many more.
I hope I don't have long to wait for the next: I need a laugh.0 -
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Number of Labour MPs voting for bombing likely to be 30-40. Source says: "Many are facing appalling intimidation from the anti-war brigade."
3:41 PM - 1 Dec 2015Scott_P said:@faisalislam: In interview with me, Labour leader @jeremycorbyn warns MPs "there is no hiding place" for their decisions in the @houseofcommons tomorrow
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''Doubt it'd be heading up the BBC's front page right now. Other items in the news and all that. ''
French regionals follow on closely from Oldham. Wonder if the BBC will put them on the front page0 -
Why has Labour been firming on the Betting exchanges since the weekend? Postal vote information leaking perhaps?0
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Plato_Says said:
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Number of Labour MPs voting for bombing likely to be 30-40. Source says: "Many are facing appalling intimidation from the anti-war brigade."
3:41 PM - 1 Dec 2015Scott_P said:@faisalislam: In interview with me, Labour leader @jeremycorbyn warns MPs "there is no hiding place" for their decisions in the @houseofcommons tomorrow
Yet the Labour for Oldham odds are falling...
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That's a lovely story that's completely ruined by the reality of the Scottish diet being grossly inferior and Scotland constantly teetering on the edge of famine due to the lack of arable land.Luckyguy1983 said:
Your attitude is rather sad - you of all people I would have thought would be interested in a diet that historically made the Scottish population so healthy. Haggis (nutrient rich organ meats - a common theme), soaked oats (as I described), turnips - all very much part of the Weston A Price school of thought. Far healthier than England's contemporary diet of wheat (albeit that all bread was soaked in those days).
This situation was only remedied by the introduction of the potato and the creation of a sufficiently awesome subsoil plow which was as late as the start of the nineteenth century, and high energy density grains.0 -
Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.0
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When peace comes to Syria - Labour get no credit.chestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
The general leftist retort is, 'then why aren;t be bombing Saudi Arabia.'0 -
5-2 becomes 3-1 shot... It's the equivalent of someone noting a 2nd favourite is mucking about a touch before getting into the stalls.isam said:
Insignificant money there I would sayjustin124 said:Why has Labour been firming on the Betting exchanges since the weekend? Postal vote information leaking perhaps?
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If the shadow cabinet really wanted rid of Corbyn, they could whip the Syria vote in favour0
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You could always enter as Michael GreenAlastairMeeks said:
I'd claim that it was a different Alastair Meeks who'd filled out the competition. There would be a slight problem with that though.Tissue_Price said:
I strongly suspect the prediction is from a different Tom Harris - @tnjharris not @MrTCHarrisPulpstar said:
He has the same position as me actually (Mine has alot more money tied up but nets off to this)Tissue_Price said:The ex-MP Tom Harris is on UKIP @ 6/1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12026844/The-Labour-Party-is-asleep-to-the-damage-Ukips-doing-it.html
He's done an Alistair Meeks with his prediction though0 -
.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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I think the peaceniks are on safe ground with that calculation tbh.TGOHF said:
When peace comes to Syria - Labour get no credit.chestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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So the government has 330 MPs. Lets take off 20 through rebels and other things.
~310.
+ DUP + Libdems
~325
+ 40 Labour MPs
~365
Looking at a majority of 70-80 MPs.0 -
Oh yes.....MarqueeMark said:
One for Santa:Sunil_Prasannan said:
You mean a book on shoes??Beverley_C said:
Well... we will not have long to wait. If I win can I swap the book on politics for something shoe-related?rcs1000 said:
40% of the labour vote will turn outBeverley_C said:
Thank you. I see my prediction of Labour squeaking home by a few percent is not widely sharedMarkHopkins said:
You can click on the menu box (top right corner of the prediction frame), or...Beverley_C said:
Where do these predictions show up? (Even I had a go)TheScreamingEagles said:I've made my prediction.
I forgot to put in my winner. But from my prediction it is clear who I expect to win.
Search
Summary
85% of the UKIP vote will turn out
50% of conservatives
50% of libdem
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Book-Shoes-Marta-Morales/dp/1770851240
"the creations of Pons Quitana, Paco Gil, Victoria Spruce, Iris Morata, Cuple, Barbara Bui, BF Coleccion Europa, Caramelo, Chie Miraha, Ellen Ver Beek and many more...."
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Aren't the LD's going to vota against?DanSmith said:So the government has 330 MPs. Lets take off 20 through rebels and other things.
~310.
+ DUP + Libdems
~325
+ 40 Labour MPs
~365
Looking at a majority of 70-80 MPs.0 -
How about you give us a list of marches and demonstrations in Europe about *any* subject that made the UK news.MikeK said:
300,000 Spaniards came out against "austerity" two years ago. And it merited not a single paragraph that I noticed.0 -
Insubstantial but not insignificant.isam said:
Insignificant money there I would say.. for the six betfair boxes to be 8 ticks wide and have £200 in total is pretty meaninglessjustin124 said:Why has Labour been firming on the Betting exchanges since the weekend? Postal vote information leaking perhaps?
It signifies that no one really knows.0 -
I imagine that a great deal of this is kept out of the press only for it to be later reported that people have been convicted of plotting to bomb places like Westfield.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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http://blogs.reuters.com/bernddebusmann/2012/02/11/betting-on-syria’s-assad-staying-in-power/
On February 9, Intrade gave a 31% chance to Assad being out of office by the end of June and a 58% chance that he would be out by December 31, 2012.0 -
We don't hear about all terror-related arrests and operations - for very good reasons. Lack of awareness does not mean that there is not a significant effort in these areas.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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Rest assured, a lack of publicity doesn't mean nothing is happening.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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I'm not a libdem, but I think reports of their death have been exaggerated.Pulpstar said:
One, or maybe two out of four there.Ghedebrav said:LAB to inch it. 3-5% winning margin.
CON down below 15%
LDs to outperform expectations (or at least retain their deposit).
Sir Oink-A-Lot to beat the Greens.
I'm guessing you're a Lib Dem with the wishful thinking on the bottom two.
I'm increasingly confident they will keep their deposit.0 -
Wildy off topic, I can post from my MacBook, but on my iMac the site just spins round and asks me to log on yet again.
Is the ghost of Steve J trying to tell me something?0 -
0
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It seems from the results so far from the poll,it's a recount with a Labour win ie PB is predicting a photo-finish with Labour ahead by a nostril,ukip not quite managing to get enough Tories to switch.The relative strength of the Tory vote will ensure a win for Jim McMahon-by a whisker.0
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chestnut said:
I imagine that a great deal of this is kept out of the press only for it to be later reported that people have been convicted of plotting to bomb places like Westfield.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
watford30 said:
Rest assured, a lack of publicity doesn't mean nothing is happening.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
Message understood!oxfordsimon said:
We don't hear about all terror-related arrests and operations - for very good reasons. Lack of awareness does not mean that there is not a significant effort in these areas.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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None of the bookies taking a massive view either. Just making sure they aren't arbable with Betfair.AlastairMeeks said:
Insubstantial but not insignificant.isam said:
Insignificant money there I would say.. for the six betfair boxes to be 8 ticks wide and have £200 in total is pretty meaninglessjustin124 said:Why has Labour been firming on the Betting exchanges since the weekend? Postal vote information leaking perhaps?
It signifies that no one really knows.0 -
@bbclaurak: Big row brewing about Labour MP @LouHaigh tweeting about Security briefing - trying to get to bottom of what happened0
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If UKIP do win by a hair, can Corbyn blame the loss on the Stop The War march on Labour HQ?0
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@Scott_P fig pucker beer row brewing.
http://www.totalpolitics.com/blog/453191/cameron-is-the-inspiration-behind-a-new-beer-called-figpucker.thtml0 -
Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
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Mr. P, is that today's entry in Labour's Advent Calendar of Calamities?0
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AS we move away from the Paris attacks a little, perhaps a few more voters are looking with sympathy on Labour's Syria high minded chaos.
Late drift might be enough to get Corbyn over the line on Oldham.0 -
Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.0
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Retired Cambridge academic refuses to help Israeli girl with school project 'until there is peace in Palestine'
Dr Marsha Levine, an expert in horse domestication, told the 13-year-old that she would not answer her questions because she boycotts Israel
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12027011/Retired-Cambridge-academic-refuses-to-help-Israeli-girl-with-school-project-until-there-is-peace-in-Palestine.html
And we wondered why approval of Corbynism was so high among this demographic...0 -
Plato_Says said:
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor
Number of Labour MPs voting for bombing likely to be 30-40. Source says: "Many are facing appalling intimidation from the anti-war brigade."
3:41 PM - 1 Dec 2015Scott_P said:@faisalislam: In interview with me, Labour leader @jeremycorbyn warns MPs "there is no hiding place" for their decisions in the @houseofcommons tomorrow
People in favour of peace using intimidation. No - surely not!
I wonder whether there's a chance that the vote will not go ahead or might be lost. Still, Labour will be pleased and they will have a message at last: Labour - the terrorists's friend.
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Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Well this is the man who would rather a suicide bomber was tickled with a feather duster than neutralized.0 -
If Labour are having a free vote, why aren't the Tories?bigjohnowls said:Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.
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Isn't John Baron's case that we ought to be prepared to (theoretically) commit ground troops before we carry out air strikes? I have some sympathy with that, though I think air strikes on their own are better than abstaining at this juncture.bigjohnowls said:Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.
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0
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Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
If Mr Corbyn cares so much about finding a non-violent solution then I suggest he flies to Raqqa and speaks to ISIS directly to help find ways of getting them what they want through negotiation. I am sure that his reception there would be a memorable one ....0 -
I think the back bench Conservative vote is actually far freer than the Labour one...OldKingCole said:
If Labour are having a free vote, why aren't the Tories?bigjohnowls said:Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.
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Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Completely unfair comment.
Can you really not see the link between killing innocent people and the growth in people willing to kill innocents here.
How many wars have you already supported that have made matters worse like (Libya?)0 -
As Corbyn says "they will have no hiding place"AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
If she's broken the OSA a chat with Plod would be in order.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: Big row brewing about Labour MP @LouHaigh tweeting about Security briefing - trying to get to bottom of what happened
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I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.0 -
Thomas Moore was not a hypocriteCharles said:@flightpath01 FPT
A Man for All Seasons =/= Nick Palmer
Check the film on wiki0 -
bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
How many wars have you already supported that have made matters worse like (Libya?)
Corbyn opposed the Falklands war - the junta might still be in power if we had followed his pusillanimous approach.0 -
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh · 1m1 minute ago
The Leader of the Opposition's office estimates 100 Labour MPs could vote for Syria bombing. Tories expecting 50ish. I'm told real fig is 70
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Mr. Owls, if Gaddafi had been left unchecked, people would be criticising Cameron for not stopping genocide (and the country might have fallen to Islamists anyway).0
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Dan Hodges @DPJHodges 2m2 minutes ago
Jeremy Corbyn: "More than 75% of Labour party members have indicated they are opposed to air strikes". That's just a lie.
Afternoon all,
Popcorn replenished. Now it turns truly nasty.0 -
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Why will the Corbynite membership vote for someone who they can see is destabilising Corbyn? Look left, but loyal.0 -
A man who boasts about betting against his party and his country. Truly SLAB is his home.Tissue_Price said:The ex-MP Tom Harris is on UKIP @ 6/1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/12026844/The-Labour-Party-is-asleep-to-the-damage-Ukips-doing-it.html
Absolutely no problem with someone making a profit. But boasting about it is deliberately antagonistic and shameless.0 -
Too many tweets make a tw@t...Above all else, incredibly unprofessional. Not what you would expect of an MP in relation to incredibly sensitive matters.watford30 said:
If she's broken the OSA a chat with Plod would be in order.Scott_P said:@bbclaurak: Big row brewing about Labour MP @LouHaigh tweeting about Security briefing - trying to get to bottom of what happened
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Might be in reality, but that's not how it will be seen.Pulpstar said:
I think the back bench Conservative vote is actually far freer than the Labour one...OldKingCole said:
If Labour are having a free vote, why aren't the Tories?bigjohnowls said:Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.
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And also we are not proposing to bomb 'syria', we are bombing ISIS who are operating on the Syrian side of the Syria/Iraq border. We are already bombing ISIS in Iraq.watford30 said:
Rest assured, a lack of publicity doesn't mean nothing is happening.isam said:.
The desire to bomb Syria was borne of the terrorism in Paris wasn't it? The big danger to us must be British terrorists currently in Britain. What I find surprising/worrying are the lack of arrests/raids herechestnut said:Voting against intervention is voting to allow ISIS to carry on with their behaviour; it isn't a vote for peace, it's a vote to step aside during beheadings, terrorism, summary executions, genocide, persecution of 'others'.
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Pulpstar said:OldKingCole said:
If Labour are having a free vote, why aren't the Tories?bigjohnowls said:Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.
Because the Conservative Party has a policy on bombing Syria.0 -
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Incredible. And this is truly getting emotional and angry. Has there been anything like this in a long time? Last I can think of is the famous Healey speech at a party conference about the IMF.0 -
The real Moore was - at his trial he objected to some evidence as hearsay. It was pointed out that it was the same kind of evidence that he had used to convict and burn heretics....flightpath01 said:
Thomas Moore was not a hypocriteCharles said:@flightpath01 FPT
A Man for All Seasons =/= Nick Palmer
Check the film on wiki0 -
He is only interested in anything that slags of Muslims.rcs1000 said:
How about you give us a list of marches and demonstrations in Europe about *any* subject that made the UK news.MikeK said:
300,000 Spaniards came out against "austerity" two years ago. And it merited not a single paragraph that I noticed.0 -
Why will the Corbynite membership vote for someone who they can see is destabilising Corbyn? Look left, but loyal.Tissue_Price said:
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
NB also I suspect voting against the Government on this will be a sine qua non for the next leader. Bet accordingly when the division lists come out.0 -
Thats only 7 of 11 members?bigjohnowls said:Told John Baron has forced a vote in Foreign Affairs Committee 4,3 against strikes. Awkward for Cameron.
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They need to set up a shadow cabinet in exile.Scott_P said:If the shadow cabinet really wanted rid of Corbyn, they could whip the Syria vote in favour
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NB also I suspect voting against the Government on this will be a sine qua non for the next leader. Bet accordingly when the division lists come out.Tissue_Price said:
Why will the Corbynite membership vote for someone who they can see is destabilising Corbyn? Look left, but loyal.Tissue_Price said:
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
What about the fence sitters ?0 -
Why will the Corbynite membership vote for someone who they can see is destabilising Corbyn? Look left, but loyal.Tissue_Price said:
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
That is a good point and it highlights the problem. Looked at that way Benn and Corbyn act as two centres around which the party can split. Benn is the de facto leader of the moderates and Corbyn gets the communists & hard-liners.
New "New Labour"?0 -
Completely unfair comment.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Can you really not see the link between killing innocent people and the growth in people willing to kill innocents here.
(Snip)
I'm far from convinced that's the way it works. It's an excuse, but excuses are all Islamic terrorists have had from well before 9/11.
If we do not bomb, they'll just find something else as an excuse.0 -
Labour are totally stuffed and will probably cease to exist in its present form, certainly in the form Ed Miliband left it, within 2 years.Danny565 said:
Yup.William_H said:
She also went down the Blairite rabbit hole. And didn't really come out of it.Pulpstar said:
What was wrong with Yvette ?Danny565 said:
This depends what you mean by "moderates". There's never going to be a swivel-eyed ultra-Blairite winning the leadership again, true.taffys said:''More likely after 2025, and maybe not even then.''
I don't see the moderates ever winning again. The great mass movement of working people that used to be labour no longer exists.
But the Soft Left is still near-unbeatable in Labour leadership elections IF they offer a good candidate; most members want to win elections while still having just about enough principles to make it worthwhile. The problem was there was perceived to be no Soft Left candidate in this year's leadership election (Burnham could've been it but destroyed it by following Liz Kendall down the Blairite rabbit-hole in the first couple of weeks of the contest, and even though he tried to swerve back later people had stopped trusting him).
What Labour really needs to sort itself out is a not crap Ed Miliband.0 -
Mrs C, the Neo-Labour splitters will never defeat the Paleo-Labour true believers!
Edited extra bit: most bitter civil war since the daleks?0 -
NB also I suspect voting against the Government on this will be a sine qua non for the next leader. Bet accordingly when the division lists come out.Tissue_Price said:
Why will the Corbynite membership vote for someone who they can see is destabilising Corbyn? Look left, but loyal.Tissue_Price said:
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Exactly. This isn't about Syria anymore.0 -
Mr. Jessop, indeed. Cartoons, for example.0
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I'm far from convinced that's the way it works. It's an excuse, but excuses are all Islamic terrorists have had from well before 9/11.JosiasJessop said:
Completely unfair comment.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Can you really not see the link between killing innocent people and the growth in people willing to kill innocents here.
(Snip)
If we do not bomb, they'll just find something else as an excuse.
Good afternoon all. You make an excellent point. We keep looking at Salafism as if it's somehow related to Western concepts - tit for tat, revenge and reprisal. Whereas the creed compels believers to make war on the infidel. We're an offence just by existing - we have to either convert or die. I doubt we'll ever comprehend.0 -
Completely unfair comment.bigjohnowls said:
Corbyn seems more bothered about killing innocent people in Syria than about innocent people being murdered here.Cyclefree said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Can you really not see the link between killing innocent people and the growth in people willing to kill innocents here.
How many wars have you already supported that have made matters worse like (Libya?)
We're bombing their 'brothers' in Iraq right now, Owls. They hate us already. Seven plots foiled this year, Brussels on lock down not to mention Paris.
They hate and despise us already, @bigjohnowls.0 -
Exactly. This isn't about Syria anymore.Casino_Royale said:
NB also I suspect voting against the Government on this will be a sine qua non for the next leader. Bet accordingly when the division lists come out.Tissue_Price said:
Why will the Corbynite membership vote for someone who they can see is destabilising Corbyn? Look left, but loyal.Tissue_Price said:
I think that Benn is setting himself up for a coronation. What other senior Labour figure has shown any form of leadership? If Corbyn goes then there is only one obvious successor.Beverley_C said:Plato_Says said:Jeremy Corbyn and Hilary Benn are now in open conflict over Syrian air strikes.
In a dramatic intervention on BBC Radio earlier today, Mr Corbyn singled out Mr Benn - who supports air strikes - and said that meant killing innocent people.
Labour are totally pacifist then, even if it has to be beaten into them.0
