Undefined discussion subject.
Comments
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"1 decimal point"
not 2 ?0 -
I'll change tharMarkHopkins said:"1 decimal point"
not 2 ?0 -
Third.
Like Labour in Scotland.0 -
Been out all morning. How many Labour car crashes have I missed?0
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There's a Loony on the ballot too IIRC. So need to total to under 100%0
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I left 0.5% for other assorted loons. I do however think the Lib Dems should be odds on for beating the MRLP. I felt generous, and put them in at 1.94%.SandyRentool said:There's a Loony on the ballot too IIRC. So need to total to under 100%
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Looking at the guesstimates so far - it's all pretty close bar one doughty soul hoping for a LD surge10
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Not much meaningful difference between voting Loony or Liberal these days.Pulpstar said:
I left 0.5% for other assorted loons. I do however think the Lib Dems should be odds on for beating the MRLP. I felt generous, and put them in at 1.94%.SandyRentool said:There's a Loony on the ballot too IIRC. So need to total to under 100%
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/labour-oldham-west-byelection-jeremy-corbyn
Why Labour fear the worst in Oldham.0 -
Corbynism sweeping the nation...chestnut said:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/labour-oldham-west-byelection-jeremy-corbyn
Why Labour fear the worst in Oldham.0 -
FPT:
Not sure where you are getting your info from - wine at more than 1500 ppm of fluoride?Dair said:
Toothpaste has around 1500 ppm of flouride. Which means it has a lower concentration than wine, tea and raisins. Of course these things also contain acids are should not be left in contact with your teeth for extended periods, whereas toothpaste is free from such negatives.Luckyguy1983 said:
There is a subtlety between what will make you drop dead on the spot, and what will be injurious to health if practised on a long term basis, that you are clearly missing. I'm not saying that fluoride in toothpaste will make people keel over, I am saying that although 'safe' in small doses, building up a large load of a toxic chemical that your body has to excrete or store is not a good idea.Richard_Tyndall said:
Most of the chemicals that go to make up our bodies and which we rely upon to survive are poisonous in large enough concentrations. It is a matter of scale and circumstances. The idea that fluoride in the sorts of concentrations you find it in dental products is a poison is just garbage
The sheer muppetry of your posts on this are genuinely beyond belief.0 -
Indeed - both have turned out to be closet Tories!Dair said:
Not much meaningful difference between voting Loony or Liberal these days.Pulpstar said:
I left 0.5% for other assorted loons. I do however think the Lib Dems should be odds on for beating the MRLP. I felt generous, and put them in at 1.94%.SandyRentool said:There's a Loony on the ballot too IIRC. So need to total to under 100%
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Is the writing on the wall for Labour - goes off to play Oldham born Walton's Balshazzar's Feast.
And in that same hour, as they feasted
Came forth fingers of a man's hand
And the King saw
The part of the hand that wrote.
And this was the writing that was written:
'Mene, Mene, Tekel Upharsin'
'Thou Art Weighed In The Balance
and Found Wanting.'0 -
"Then there are the don't knows. They hate Corbyn"FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation...chestnut said:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/labour-oldham-west-byelection-jeremy-corbyn
Why Labour fear the worst in Oldham.
That sounds like they do know.
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I spy an entry that won't be happy if they win the book *cough* @AlistairMeeks0
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What the "don't knows" mean is actually they hate the current Labour party, they hate Corbyn, but they also will never ever ever vote anybody else, because their family is Labour through and through.chestnut said:
"Then there are the don't knows. They hate Corbyn"FrancisUrquhart said:
Corbynism sweeping the nation...chestnut said:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/labour-oldham-west-byelection-jeremy-corbyn
Why Labour fear the worst in Oldham.
That sounds like they do know.0 -
Meh, my error, I misread a wiki table as g not mg. And while that puts me out by a factor of 1000, it still means a couple of bottles of will provide comparable amounts of flouride as a squeeze of toothpaste.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Not sure where you are getting your info from - wine at more than 1500 ppm of fluoride?Dair said:
Toothpaste has around 1500 ppm of flouride. Which means it has a lower concentration than wine, tea and raisins. Of course these things also contain acids are should not be left in contact with your teeth for extended periods, whereas toothpaste is free from such negatives.Luckyguy1983 said:
There is a subtlety between what will make you drop dead on the spot, and what will be injurious to health if practised on a long term basis, that you are clearly missing. I'm not saying that fluoride in toothpaste will make people keel over, I am saying that although 'safe' in small doses, building up a large load of a toxic chemical that your body has to excrete or store is not a good idea.Richard_Tyndall said:
Most of the chemicals that go to make up our bodies and which we rely upon to survive are poisonous in large enough concentrations. It is a matter of scale and circumstances. The idea that fluoride in the sorts of concentrations you find it in dental products is a poison is just garbage
The sheer muppetry of your posts on this are genuinely beyond belief.0 -
I've only been out-Kippered by MikeK so far 0
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Damning
Unfortunately for Labour, both these white working-class groups have reasons to despise Jeremy Corbyn, which is what they are expressing on doorstep after doorstep. Blue-collar households think he’s soft on immigration and welfare and a republican pacifist. Disaffected voters either don’t know who he is, in which case he’s “just another politician”, or hear him speaking about socialism and solidarity and wonder what he’s blathering on about. Both groups will know full well what his and John McDonnell’s views on the IRA are. Both groups aren’t shy in hanging St George’s flags from their windows, as Emily Thornberry might note. All of which is good reason for Corbyn cancelling seat visits and concentrating on a good local candidate in Jim McMahon.
chestnut said:http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/labour-oldham-west-byelection-jeremy-corbyn
Why Labour fear the worst in Oldham.0 -
I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc
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The perception is it will be close. I think your prediction this will squeeze the Tory, Green and Lib Dem vote is correct.Tissue_Price said:I've only been out-Kippered by MikeK so far
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I thought the thing about Labour struggling because people think they stand up / only interested in "White Dee" types.
I wondered if by that they meant the public sector worker sacked for stealing? the resultant benefit scrounging lay about? or the z-list reality tv celeb doing the PA circuit? Or all 3?0 -
I didn't want to say...Tissue_Price said:
I've only been out-Kippered by MikeK so far
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Slight danger in using this as a predictive tool - I've gone for Labour at around 48%
Not because it's my best guess, but because I think it's possible, and there won't be many predictions in that area. Far more chance of being closest with an off-centre prediction, than jumping in the middle of the pack and hoping that I guessed right on those 2 decimal places.
Of course, there may be a couple of people bullish on UKIP's chances on the other side to balance me out, but using this as a competition AND a prediction tool can be contradictory.0 -
Sadiq odds-against now (2.02). Zac 2.28. 93.4% ! Galloway isn't that likely (though with Corbyn's endorsement, who knows ;-) )0
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Am now amused to discover that William Walton's birthplace lies in Oldham West....Thou are weighed in the balance and found wanting etc.
http://www.oldham-chronicle.co.uk/news-features/8/news/77989/music-maestro-walton0 -
Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.0
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@jonwalker121: Birmingham MP Jack Dromey says Ken Livingstone must be sacked for 'legitimising' terrorism https://t.co/etaqTwDzEd https://t.co/P5Z6UHbJn00
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We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
Well that's mostly a 65% and 90% prediction skewing things.logical_song said:Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.
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You've upped your UKIP prediction from 5 to 33!!logical_song said:Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.
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I've gone with Labour by a handful - two recounts at least....0
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Saying let's talk about it, then immediately emailing everyone what you've already decided...FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
[Sunil whistles innocently...]0
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He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
And of course the "public consultation" that was as dodgy as could be. As they say, it isn't who votes, it is who counts the votes...Plato_Says said:Saying let's talk about it, then immediately emailing everyone what you've already decided...
FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
Thanks, taken what was left of both of those.Tissue_Price said:Sadiq odds-against now (2.02). Zac 2.28. 93.4% ! Galloway isn't that likely (though with Corbyn's endorsement, who knows ;-) )
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It seems that I am being a bit of a Labour optimist with my 55.55%!0
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Election_Data's piece on Oldham is worth a read:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/01/labour-oldham-west-byelection-jeremy-corbyn0 -
The biggest concentration I've read about in wine is 6 parts per million. Meaning you went on a huge rant about me being a muppet, and it was you who turned out to look like a complete chump. Don't apologise though please, it's already forgotten.Dair said:
Meh, my error, I misread a wiki table as g not mg. And while that puts me out by a factor of 1000, it still means a couple of bottles of will provide comparable amounts of flouride as a squeeze of toothpaste.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Not sure where you are getting your info from - wine at more than 1500 ppm of fluoride?Dair said:
Toothpaste has around 1500 ppm of flouride. Which means it has a lower concentration than wine, tea and raisins. Of course these things also contain acids are should not be left in contact with your teeth for extended periods, whereas toothpaste is free from such negatives.Luckyguy1983 said:
There is a subtlety between what will make you drop dead on the spot, and what will be injurious to health if practised on a long term basis, that you are clearly missing. I'm not saying that fluoride in toothpaste will make people keel over, I am saying that although 'safe' in small doses, building up a large load of a toxic chemical that your body has to excrete or store is not a good idea.Richard_Tyndall said:
Most of the chemicals that go to make up our bodies and which we rely upon to survive are poisonous in large enough concentrations. It is a matter of scale and circumstances. The idea that fluoride in the sorts of concentrations you find it in dental products is a poison is just garbage
The sheer muppetry of your posts on this are genuinely beyond belief.
As it happens, you do (purely by accident) raise a good point - not only do many of us live in areas where this poison (yes in small doses blah blah) is added to drinking water, we also get another secondary helping through food (especially that imported from the US) where there is a lot of fluoride in the water table, adding to our consumption. So therefore its more wise (not less) to limit consumption where possible.0 -
Given that Labour increased their vote share in every by-election in the neighbourhood in the last Parliament, you should be well-placed. Perhaps.SandyRentool said:It seems that I am being a bit of a Labour optimist with my 55.55%!
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Its a by election.logical_song said:Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.
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It a western version of N Korea.. KIm Jong Jezbollah..FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
It's a by-election. The Tories aren't in the race anymore. The party seen as the challenger will gain a load of protest votes. So, the facts have changed and I've changed my opinion.isam said:
You've upped your UKIP prediction from 5 to 33!!logical_song said:Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.
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If anyone has been left with a massive green on Tesa Jowell could they do me a favour and lay her at 180s ? 0
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Quite.Tissue_Price said:
Well that's mostly a 65% and 90% prediction skewing things.logical_song said:Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.
0 -
It's a fine summary. Not sure that Twitter's the ideal medium to put it out on unless he was trying to build anticipation for his conclusion.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
* waves to all the lurking voters *
I wonder if any will wave back?0 -
I like that. Kim Jong Jez and McMao have a rather good ring to it, and sums them up rather well.SquareRoot said:
It a western version of N Korea.. KIm Jong Jezbollah..FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
Consistency is the sign of a small mind.Pulpstar said:I spy an entry that won't be happy if they win the book *cough* @AlistairMeeks
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I loved @Patrick'sPulpstar said:
Its a by election.logical_song said:Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.
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Given the obvious quality (or lack thereof) of your research (witness your IHH embarrassment last night), why should anyone take anything you say about medicine seriously?Luckyguy1983 said:
The biggest concentration I've read about in wine is 6 parts per million. Meaning you went on a huge rant about me being a muppet, and it was you who turned out to look like a complete chump. Don't apologise though please, it's already forgotten.Dair said:
Meh, my error, I misread a wiki table as g not mg. And while that puts me out by a factor of 1000, it still means a couple of bottles of will provide comparable amounts of flouride as a squeeze of toothpaste.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Not sure where you are getting your info from - wine at more than 1500 ppm of fluoride?Dair said:
Toothpaste has around 1500 ppm of flouride. Which means it has a lower concentration than wine, tea and raisins. Of course these things also contain acids are should not be left in contact with your teeth for extended periods, whereas toothpaste is free from such negatives.Luckyguy1983 said:
There is a subtlety between what will make you drop dead on the spot, and what will be injurious to health if practised on a long term basis, that you are clearly missing. I'm not saying that fluoride in toothpaste will make people keel over, I am saying that although 'safe' in small doses, building up a large load of a toxic chemical that your body has to excrete or store is not a good idea.Richard_Tyndall said:
Most of the chemicals that go to make up our bodies and which we rely upon to survive are poisonous in large enough concentrations. It is a matter of scale and circumstances. The idea that fluoride in the sorts of concentrations you find it in dental products is a poison is just garbage
The sheer muppetry of your posts on this are genuinely beyond belief.
As it happens, you do (purely by accident) raise a good point - not only do many of us live in areas where this poison (yes in small doses blah blah) is added to drinking water, we also get another secondary helping through food (especially that imported from the US) where there is a lot of fluoride in the water table, adding to our consumption. So therefore its more wise (not less) to limit consumption where possible.
Do you have any medical qualifications, or did you just get it from Alex Jones or a.n.other conspiracy website?0 -
Where is Mark Senior with a 15% Lib Dem prediction
? 0 -
Not able to log on here but my predictions will be:
UKIP - 42.5
Lab - 40.2
Con - 12.3
Grn - 3.1
LD - 1.5
MRL - 0.40 -
You don't HAVE to kiss-ass to Jeremy on here you know....SandyRentool said:It seems that I am being a bit of a Labour optimist with my 55.55%!
0 -
He is only saying what I said from the minute Corbyn was elected.david_herdson said:
It's a fine summary. Not sure that Twitter's the ideal medium to put it out on unless he was trying to build anticipation for his conclusion.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
FPT:
Actually, the opposite is true of the diet protocol I 'follow' (I'm not slavish). I follow a 'Weston A Price' diet. Price was a dentist who noted declining dental (and general) health in the US population in the early 20th century. He embarked on a mission to go around the world learning about the healthiest and longest lived societies - largely those untouched by industrialisation etc. From Eskimos, to African tribes, to Swiss villages. Such a thing can't be done these days - these peoples are gone.JosiasJessop said:
"I did some research"
I would be careful given your track record of 'research'.
In all seriousness, be very careful about believing what you read on websites (and to a lesser extent the media) about medical issues. Too much of it is quackery, clickbait or money-fodder. Some of it can be actively injurious to your health.
He found each society, though some were nearly vegeterian, some almost entirely carniverous etc., had in common certain 'sacred foods' that kept them healthy, free from disease and long lived.
Look at today's society - we're being kept alive a bit longer by medical advances and greatly reduced deprivation, but healthier? Allergies and intolerances are out of control, cancer, heart and other diseases likewise. Who says our diet is healthier? 20 years ago fat was the enemy. It's now sugar. These are trends, not nutritional truths. The past is really the only place we can look to find out what's healthy - what worked generation to generation when there were no doctors. The unfashionable concept of wisdom. The 'risk' lies in following today's food fads.0 -
@Tapestry was our most entertaining conspiracy blogger - here's him on fluoride http://tapnewswire.com/2015/01/fluorides-part-in-the-increase-in-cancer/
I enjoyed this one http://tapnewswire.com/2015/11/do-nuclear-bombs-actually-exist/JosiasJessop said:
Given the obvious quality (or lack thereof) of your research (witness your IHH embarrassment last night), why should anyone take anything you say about medicine seriously?Luckyguy1983 said:
The biggest concentration I've read about in wine is 6 parts per million. Meaning you went on a huge rant about me being a muppet, and it was you who turned out to look like a complete chump. Don't apologise though please, it's already forgotten.Dair said:
Meh, my error, I misread a wiki table as g not mg. And while that puts me out by a factor of 1000, it still means a couple of bottles of will provide comparable amounts of flouride as a squeeze of toothpaste.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Not sure where you are getting your info from - wine at more than 1500 ppm of fluoride?Dair said:
Toothpaste has around 1500 ppm of flouride. Which means it has a lower concentration than wine, tea and raisins. Of course these things also contain acids are should not be left in contact with your teeth for extended periods, whereas toothpaste is free from such negatives.Luckyguy1983 said:
There is a subtlety between what will make you drop dead on the spot, and what will be injurious to health if practised on a long term basis, that you are clearly missing. I'm not saying that fluoride in toothpaste will make people keel over, I am saying that although 'safe' in small doses, building up a large load of a toxic chemical that your body has to excrete or store is not a good idea.Richard_Tyndall said:
Most of the chemicals that go to make up our bodies and which we rely upon to survive are poisonous in large enough concentrations. It is a matter of scale and circumstances. The idea that fluoride in the sorts of concentrations you find it in dental products is a poison is just garbage
The sheer muppetry of your posts on this are genuinely beyond belief.
As it happens, you do (purely by accident) raise a good point - not only do many of us live in areas where this poison (yes in small doses blah blah) is added to drinking water, we also get another secondary helping through food (especially that imported from the US) where there is a lot of fluoride in the water table, adding to our consumption. So therefore its more wise (not less) to limit consumption where possible.
Do you have any medical qualifications, or did you just get it from Alex Jones or a.n.other conspiracy website?0 -
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc
They should have the balls to act accordingly0 -
If you work backwards, Lib Dem and Green and MRLP will sum through to 5% or thereabouts. Aside from Tories 1 in 20 casting very minor party votes makes sense.david_herdson said:Not able to log on here but my predictions will be:
UKIP - 42.5
Lab - 40.2
Con - 12.3
Grn - 3.1
LD - 1.5
MRL - 0.4
Going through to Con, well there will be a squeeze.
A 14% drop in Labour looks eminently sensible, 40% is still a fair few votes. And the rest going to UKIP wraps up the maths nicely.0 -
I need to make up to him for telling him I support the bombing!MarqueeMark said:
You don't HAVE to kiss-ass to Jeremy on here you know....SandyRentool said:It seems that I am being a bit of a Labour optimist with my 55.55%!
0 -
@MikeSmithson You must be hopeful that turnout is squeezed to such a degree that those 500 or so stoic Lib Dems can save yr deposit 0
-
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly0 -
These comptitions always interesting. Aim for the centre of the pack or a bit of room on the outsides?
Still fuming I came within 0.06% of predicting Corbyn's vote but didn't win because those weren't the rules! I waz robbed....0 -
"Now I've got a letter here from Sandy here.... "SandyRentool said:
I need to make up to him for telling him I support the bombing!MarqueeMark said:
You don't HAVE to kiss-ass to Jeremy on here you know....SandyRentool said:It seems that I am being a bit of a Labour optimist with my 55.55%!
0 -
Arguably they did if they were union members or paid £3.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly0 -
Was I embarrassed last night? Unlike you I don't trawl the threads of a morning on tenterhooks to see what you may have said the previous evening. By all means complete my utter degradation by repeating whatever incisive shard of wisdom from you I may have missed if that will please you.JosiasJessop said:
Given the obvious quality (or lack thereof) of your research (witness your IHH embarrassment last night), why should anyone take anything you say about medicine seriously?
Do you have any medical qualifications, or did you just get it from Alex Jones or a.n.other conspiracy website?
As I've repeated (how many times are we up to now?) I expect intelligent readers to read my post, and decide whether they agree with the points made therein. If they think my post is utterly ridiculous they may choose to ignore. If they're not sure and want more information or supporting evidence, if I'm around I'll oblige. I wouldn't have thought this was a hard concept to assimilate, but we seem to be having great difficulty.0 -
I'm nearly with you - just think the South Asian voting block will magically tip it Labour's way.Pulpstar said:
If you work backwards, Lib Dem and Green and MRLP will sum through to 5% or thereabouts. Aside from Tories 1 in 20 casting very minor party votes makes sense.david_herdson said:Not able to log on here but my predictions will be:
UKIP - 42.5
Lab - 40.2
Con - 12.3
Grn - 3.1
LD - 1.5
MRL - 0.4
Going through to Con, well there will be a squeeze.
A 14% drop in Labour looks eminently sensible, 40% is still a fair few votes. And the rest going to UKIP wraps up the maths nicely.
0 -
The theme song for this page should be "The Political Gambler" by Kenny Rogers
"You've got to know when to Oldham, know when to fold 'em..."0 -
Our favourite LibDem by-election bar chart!Pulpstar said:@MikeK Might be near with his Lib Dem entry
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/5507160282932510730 -
''Those who think UKIP will win on average think that UKIP will get 48%. This seems optimistic on their part, maybe the same people who predicted 100 UKIP MPs.''
UKIP could get this by dint of a very very low labour turnout, I guess. IF the Guardian's characterisation of the seat is correct, labour will find it very hard to motivate those WWC voters who aren't put off by Corbyn.0 -
There is a strategic inevitability about it. Unless the MPs found a way to remove Corbyn and replace with a moderate, his position internally gets stronger and his associates firm up their chances as his replacement. With the big union paymasters aligned with the hard left political views (except Trident), Labour have no hope of a Kinnock style recovery this side of 2020. Kinnock had large moderate union leaders, Labour2015 does not.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
Remind me of MikeK's UKIP forecast for the GE?Tissue_Price said:I've only been out-Kippered by MikeK so far
0 -
UKIP 43.8
Lab 42.2
Con 8.6
Minor 5.4
0 -
I'll remind you of mine: 1.rcs1000 said:
Remind me of MikeK's UKIP forecast for the GE?Tissue_Price said:I've only been out-Kippered by MikeK so far
0 -
Are you still claiming a tooth is a bone?Luckyguy1983 said:
The biggest concentration I've read about in wine is 6 parts per million. Meaning you went on a huge rant about me being a muppet, and it was you who turned out to look like a complete chump. Don't apologise though please, it's already forgotten.0 -
They were elected by their constituents. Those are the voters they have to represent.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly
Their duty is to their electorate not Corbyn.
Corbyn showed previous Labour leaders ZERO loyalty. He has no right to demand anything less than he was prepared to offer others in his position.
He is a leader in name only. His Shadow Cabinet is against him. His MPs are against him.
Let him run round the country leading his 'members' - and let the real politicians get on with trying to rebuild a Labour Party.
We need a proper opposition party - Corbyn is not capable of delivering that.0 -
Lib Dems are trying very hard to increase their votes % in the by election. If it fails that will be a knock back in the "LD fightback" campaign.Pulpstar said:@MikeSmithson You must be hopeful that turnout is squeezed to such a degree that those 500 or so stoic Lib Dems can save yr deposit
0 -
Disingenuous though to pretend it is a free vote when it isn't. Being honest and using your powers is one thing, being deceitful something else.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc
0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Harris_(British_politician)
Name
Tom Harris
User
Winner
Labour
Conservative %
12.07
Green %
2.47
Labour %
43.56
Liberal Democrat %
5.27
UKIP %
36.06
?0 -
I didn't scan the other predictions before I posted mine.0
-
Different Tom Harris I expect: @tnjharrisPulpstar said:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Harris_(British_politician)
Name
Tom Harris
User
?0 -
Had Corbyn shown the slightest bit of loyalty to previous leaders we might be in a different position now. What goes around comes around.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly0 -
Missing the point. Where you draw your leader from the parliamentary party then if he is so far out of agreement with them, then it is quite untenable. Corbyn Momentum Stopthewar know this and are intent on replacing the MPs to be in their own image.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly
Labour is being transmogrified and those that do not like it will be wasting their breath trying to influence the members. They need to get out now. They need to blatantly start a parliamentary party that owes no loyalty to Corbyn and then all resign Corbyn's Labour.
Do something or do nothing, the labour party they joined is finished.0 -
Fine words, but the money is with the hard left and the votes for the Leader and votes for the re-selection of many of their MPs are in the hands of the hard left. The destination for Labour is either:-oxfordsimon said:
They were elected by their constituents. Those are the voters they have to represent.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly
Their duty is to their electorate not Corbyn.
Corbyn showed previous Labour leaders ZERO loyalty. He has no right to demand anything less than he was prepared to offer others in his position.
He is a leader in name only. His Shadow Cabinet is against him. His MPs are against him.
Let him run round the country leading his 'members' - and let the real politicians get on with trying to rebuild a Labour Party.
We need a proper opposition party - Corbyn is not capable of delivering that.
1. It splits
2. Mass deselections of the moderate MPs
3. A combination of the above
0 -
OT this is rather fascinating http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/12027166/What-travelling-was-like-100-years-ago.html0
-
Again more pure unadulterated nonsense.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT:
Actually, the opposite is true of the diet protocol I 'follow' (I'm not slavish). I follow a 'Weston A Price' diet. Price was a dentist who noted declining dental (and general) health in the US population in the early 20th century. He embarked on a mission to go around the world learning about the healthiest and longest lived societies - largely those untouched by industrialisation etc. From Eskimos, to African tribes, to Swiss villages. Such a thing can't be done these days - these peoples are gone.JosiasJessop said:
"I did some research"
I would be careful given your track record of 'research'.
In all seriousness, be very careful about believing what you read on websites (and to a lesser extent the media) about medical issues. Too much of it is quackery, clickbait or money-fodder. Some of it can be actively injurious to your health.
He found each society, though some were nearly vegeterian, some almost entirely carniverous etc., had in common certain 'sacred foods' that kept them healthy, free from disease and long lived.
Look at today's society - we're being kept alive a bit longer by medical advances and greatly reduced deprivation, but healthier? Allergies and intolerances are out of control, cancer, heart and other diseases likewise. Who says our diet is healthier? 20 years ago fat was the enemy. It's now sugar. These are trends, not nutritional truths. The past is really the only place we can look to find out what's healthy - what worked generation to generation when there were no doctors. The unfashionable concept of wisdom. The 'risk' lies in following today's food fads.
Put simply, correlation is not causation. Pre industrialised diets contain virtually no refined sugar. The actual foods eaten are entirely irrelevant, what matters is no sugar. That's the core here and dressed up in all the insane psuedo-science doesn't change the basic concept.
Now, clearly you went with the reduction in sugar and for people willing to do that, good luck to them. Personally I think sugar is a damn fine addition to diets and science has developed ways we can deal with relatively higher (but not completely stupidly high) levels of refined sugar through regular brushing and flouridation.
But your nonsense about rinsing and the "evil" of flouride isn't a factor. The lack of sugar is.0 -
Just think what would be in store for the rest of us if that shower of c*nts ever took full control of Government in this country.FrancisUrquhart said:
We keep hearing that Team Corbyn doesn't do nasty politics, its all about kinder gentler politics. The evidence so far is quite the opposite. Stuffing placemen, putting in place the chance to knee-cap dissenting voices by hard left grass roots operation, etc etc etc. This "free vote" is just another example.AlastairMeeks said:I wouldn't characterise it in these terms but Hopi Sen has highlighted an important aspect of what's going on in Labour with the Syria vote:
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 44m44 minutes ago
Since nobody seems to have written it, couple of tweets on why what Corbyn team are trying to do on Syria vote is nasty dirty politics..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 41m41 minutes ago
A free vote is an agreement to disagree. No punishments follow, no disloyalty, a promise from leadership that they accept MPs own choices..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 38m38 minutes ago
To have a free vote, MPs have to have faith that to disagree on this issue is not seen as breach of trust or betrayal of loyalty.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 36m36 minutes ago
But what Corbyn is doing is something entirely different. He is offering a poisoned free vote. MPs are technically unwhipped but know..
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 35m35 minutes ago
That from the leader there is no "agreement to disagree". He will not whip his agenda through Rosie W, but through Milne, the NEC & momentum
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 32m32 minutes ago
So Corbyn isn't offering MPs a truce, or accepting different views. He's saying he won't punish dissent by whips, but by other means.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 30m30 minutes ago
Corbyn's not offering MPs a free vote. He's inviting them to rebel in the knowledge he'll use a different sort of whip if they do.
Hopi Sen @hopisen · 5m5 minutes ago
Another way to explain it:
Under Corbyn, Rosie Winterton is "dignified" chief whip, but real whips are Milne, Lansman, Willsman, Fisher etc0 -
Democracy is inconvenient. Labour MPs seem unable to accept that Jeremy Corbyn won fair and square and so cannot reach an accommodation with themselves about what that means.oxfordsimon said:
They were elected by their constituents. Those are the voters they have to represent.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly
Their duty is to their electorate not Corbyn.
Corbyn showed previous Labour leaders ZERO loyalty. He has no right to demand anything less than he was prepared to offer others in his position.
He is a leader in name only. His Shadow Cabinet is against him. His MPs are against him.
Let him run round the country leading his 'members' - and let the real politicians get on with trying to rebuild a Labour Party.
We need a proper opposition party - Corbyn is not capable of delivering that.
It's fine to be appalled by Jeremy Corbyn. I'm not a fan of him myself. But whose party is it? If MPs are out of step with the membership, why should the membership be ignored?
The MPs have rethinking to do if they want members to rethink. If they don't like where the Labour party is going, the exit is clearly marked. If they don't want to leave, they need to fight their corner showing respect to the views that clearly won in September. Never mind Jeremy Corbyn, there are hundreds of thousands of party members to respect. That does not mean carrying on as before and treating the leader as an inconvenience to be ignored.0 -
Me neither, that's the fun of it.dr_spyn said:
I didn't scan the other predictions before I posted mine.
0 -
0
-
Spot on. But just as they could not act against Brown or EdMiliband, they lack the cojones to act decisively in numbers. A few may attempt a coup, but just look at the political appeasers in the shadow cabinet.flightpath01 said:
Missing the point. Where you draw your leader from the parliamentary party then if he is so far out of agreement with them, then it is quite untenable. Corbyn Momentum Stopthewar know this and are intent on replacing the MPs to be in their own image.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly
Labour is being transmogrified and those that do not like it will be wasting their breath trying to influence the members. They need to get out now. They need to blatantly start a parliamentary party that owes no loyalty to Corbyn and then all resign Corbyn's Labour.
Do something or do nothing, the labour party they joined is finished.
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Yes, the dose does make the poison, but that isn't to say that sustained small doses of something fatal in a larger dose is a good thing. On cyanide, the jury seems to be out, as studies haven't been made.CD13 said:Mr 1983,
Sola dosis facit venenum, as Paracelsus said - 'the dose makes the poison'.
And you need to discriminate between acute and chronic doses. Cyanide taken continuously in very low doses isn't fatal, but a small amount taken all at once is.
We're all made of chemicals. I'd rather have my e-numbers (all tested) rather than that dangerous" organic" stuff which could be deadly.
http://www3.epa.gov/airtoxics/hlthef/cyanide.html
You've made this point on artificial vs. natural foods before, and all I can say is it's bunk.0 -
I did not know how to and then smiled at the top 2 being close to the average....Plato_Says said:Me neither, that's the fun of it.
dr_spyn said:I didn't scan the other predictions before I posted mine.
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I remember when the Conservative - Lib Dem coalition was being put together, alot of the Lib Dem policies were taken on board. In those first few heady days alot were wondering if the Lib Dems had got too much out of the deal compared to the Tories.flightpath01 said:
Missing the point. Where you draw your leader from the parliamentary party then if he is so far out of agreement with them, then it is quite untenable. Corbyn Momentum Stopthewar know this and are intent on replacing the MPs to be in their own image.AlastairMeeks said:
Labour do not contract out the selection of their leaders to Labour constituency voters. He got a landslide from the party members and supporters. More senior party members who dislike that outcome need to accept that and either seek to change members' minds or shut up. At the moment they're doing neither.oxfordsimon said:
He only has a mandate from a small selectorate. The MPs have a mandate from a real thing - the electorate.AlastairMeeks said:
He's using the powers at his disposal. His enemies have shown that they won't hesitate to do the same. He wouldn't have to do it if his MPs were willing to defer more to his personal mandate.
They should have the balls to act accordingly
Labour is being transmogrified and those that do not like it will be wasting their breath trying to influence the members. They need to get out now. They need to blatantly start a parliamentary party that owes no loyalty to Corbyn and then all resign Corbyn's Labour.
Do something or do nothing, the labour party they joined is finished.
Corbyn will have to give in to his shadow cabinet on other issues, not just this but slowly, inevitably the 'moderates' will be heading to the jaws of death that are the Labour membership (As the Lib Dems did with the electorate).
The Corbyn project is a long game and goes beyond just Jeremy himself.0 -
Bravo!isam said:The theme song for this page should be "The Political Gambler" by Kenny Rogers
"You've got to know when to Oldham, know when to fold 'em..."
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Yes. I think that and the quality of the candidate, combined with UKIP's poor ground game..and low turnout will be enough to see Labour home.MarqueeMark said:
I'm nearly with you - just think the South Asian voting block will magically tip it Labour's way.Pulpstar said:
If you work backwards, Lib Dem and Green and MRLP will sum through to 5% or thereabouts. Aside from Tories 1 in 20 casting very minor party votes makes sense.david_herdson said:Not able to log on here but my predictions will be:
UKIP - 42.5
Lab - 40.2
Con - 12.3
Grn - 3.1
LD - 1.5
MRL - 0.4
Going through to Con, well there will be a squeeze.
A 14% drop in Labour looks eminently sensible, 40% is still a fair few votes. And the rest going to UKIP wraps up the maths nicely.
This is a battle of who can be arsed. Not a Labour v. UKIP duel to the death.0
