politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Time to back Biden (if you can)

Couldn't be bothered to deposit £2 to cover my Biden red, so laid Jeb Bush at 12s to back Biden at 100s.

Probably breaks some golden 'betting rule' tbh !

Pulpstar said:

JosiasJessop said:

Plato_Says said:

ISIS's chilling new tactic: Terror group tells British-based fanatics to stay hidden in the UK and wait until they get a signal to attack

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3327809/ISIS-s-chilling-new-tactic-Terror-group-tells-British-based-fanatics-stay-hidden-UK-wait-signal-attack.html#ixzz3s7DYLgH9

This is why I fear people who blithely talk about 'destroying IS' - and I include our politicians in this - are being over-optimistic. IS is as much an ideology as it is a state, and sadly that ideology appeals to many.

If they remove IS out of Syria (and that's a big conditional; the coalition tried removing their immediate predecessor out of Iraq without much luck), they'll move back to Iraq. Remove them out of both Syria and Iraq, and they'll move to Yemen or elsewhere.

Then there are adherents to the IS ideology and aims will just form disparate al-Qaeda style groups: which might be better, but still dangerous.

We need to be in this for the long term. And we need to tackle the ideology. Now, does anyone have any ideas how to do that?

They remind me of the Nazis tbh.

How do we tackle Nazi ideology ?

"They'll like us when we win."

"I don't remember having to tell the Italians that it was only Mussolini we had a problem with! Why does the US have to take every Arab country out for an ice cream cone?! They'll like us when we win!"

Mr. F, you mean banning shoot to kill for suicide bombers and disbanding MI5 aren't vote-winners?!

Pulpstar said:

JosiasJessop said:

Plato_Says said:

ISIS's chilling new tactic: Terror group tells British-based fanatics to stay hidden in the UK and wait until they get a signal to attack

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3327809/ISIS-s-chilling-new-tactic-Terror-group-tells-British-based-fanatics-stay-hidden-UK-wait-signal-attack.html#ixzz3s7DYLgH9

This is why I fear people who blithely talk about 'destroying IS' - and I include our politicians in this - are being over-optimistic. IS is as much an ideology as it is a state, and sadly that ideology appeals to many.

If they remove IS out of Syria (and that's a big conditional; the coalition tried removing their immediate predecessor out of Iraq without much luck), they'll move back to Iraq. Remove them out of both Syria and Iraq, and they'll move to Yemen or elsewhere.

Then there are adherents to the IS ideology and aims will just form disparate al-Qaeda style groups: which might be better, but still dangerous.

We need to be in this for the long term. And we need to tackle the ideology. Now, does anyone have any ideas how to do that?

They remind me of the Nazis tbh.

How do we tackle Nazi ideology ?

One of the most important factors in the solution to the post-Nazi Germany Problem was the largest example of Ethnic Cleansing in history. The other big factor was massive financial investment in a willing population

I sense the West is not willing to go to such lengths and that there is no actual solution being put forward by the West, The West will not Ethnically Cleanse, will not create new states such as Kurdistan, will not provide huge pots of money and the populace do not appear entirely willing to accept any solution the West might offer.

The game is a bogey before it's begun, military action in Syria (and Iraq) is utterly pointless.

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

saddened said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

There's a great deal of truth in that. Young men are always keen to fight despite all the evidence showing it's a really shitty experience. Must be hard wired into the human brain.

I was being serious, our lads will be itching to get out there. It's unfathomable to 99% of us but they love it.

Then they come back in bits and whinge forever about people not fawning over them.

What an unpleasant man you are.

What an absolute idealistic stupid plank you are. Desperate for idiots to go and either murder other people or get themselves blown to bits. Unpleasant is to much of an accolade for someone like you , living your life vicariously through others deeds whilst you hide behind the sofa cheering.

saddened said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

There's a great deal of truth in that. Young men are always keen to fight despite all the evidence showing it's a really shitty experience. Must be hard wired into the human brain.

Some people enjoy fighting. They're unusual, but they certainly exist.

Cromwell said:

RUBIO combines the sunny optimism of Reagan with the affable , slick debating skills of Bill Clinton and the youth , freshness and minority status of Obama ...he's the obvious winner !

American politics is becoming increasingly intertwined with Hollywood and the entertainment industry where youth , freshness and slick presentation beats experience , gravitas and wisdom ....this first appeared with the Hollywood-esque Kennedy , then in 1992 when Clinton defeated the statesman-like Bush , did the same with the aging WW2 veteran Dole and then reappeared again in 2008 with the rise of the ''American Idol'' Barrack Obama who took the nomination from right under Hillary and then decisively defeated the aging Vietnam war hero John Mccain

A presidential candidate MUST be in the zeitgeist

Rubio is also lurking around with Carson and Cruz on ~ 10-15%, a mile behind the Donald. His 6-4 and below price is ludicrous.

And we need to take much better care of them when they come home http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10178403/More-British-soldiers-commit-suicide-than-die-in-battle-figures-suggest.html

Sean_F said:

saddened said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

There's a great deal of truth in that. Young men are always keen to fight despite all the evidence showing it's a really shitty experience. Must be hard wired into the human brain.

Some people enjoy fighting. They're unusual, but they certainly exist.

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

SquareRoot said:

blackburn63 said:

RobD said:

SquareRoot said:

You cannot win a war with air strikes. History teaches us this.. you need boots on the ground .

The US won with two rather large air strikes in '45

Dresden

Dresden was not the end of the war.. and I don't think the we are going to drop atomic bombs on ISIS. Boots on the ground after degradation will be the only way.

Dresden didn't end the war but it was pivotal and remains controversial. This is going to be dirty, it's war, but I'm afraid we're left with no options. Of course there will be people wailing when we receive recriminations but luckily we didn't stand by when Germany invaded Poland.

Dresden was totally pointless and had no military purpose, just fanatics of carpet bombing trying to promote their failed strategy.

I see the Nats are rewriting history now

Stick to comics, you are obviously not up to intelligent debate.

Are you this obnoxious in "real life" or is this an Internet persona?

I once read about inadequate young men, wearing tanktops in bed sits, alternating between youporn and message boards.

You are as stupid as your posts then , I am a mature gentleman in a nice detached house , and not at all like your personal description of yourself.
Hard to believe you can actually read.

Pulpstar said:

AlastairMeeks said:

ISIS may well be wiped off the map in short order. It's already struggling. Its millennarianist ideology will continue to gain adherents for generations. That will need continual containing and confronting.

Raqqa looks safe for them to me right now - who is going to take it.

After last week, the volunteers seem to be queuing up.

Personally, I remain highly sceptical about British military intervention. "Everyone else is doing it so why can't we?" is not a foreign policy.

We need clear aims, an understanding of what success looks like and a clear plan for the area after the military victory is won.

Dair said:

Pulpstar said:

JosiasJessop said:

Plato_Says said:

ISIS's chilling new tactic: Terror group tells British-based fanatics to stay hidden in the UK and wait until they get a signal to attack

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3327809/ISIS-s-chilling-new-tactic-Terror-group-tells-British-based-fanatics-stay-hidden-UK-wait-signal-attack.html#ixzz3s7DYLgH9

This is why I fear people who blithely talk about 'destroying IS' - and I include our politicians in this - are being over-optimistic. IS is as much an ideology as it is a state, and sadly that ideology appeals to many.

If they remove IS out of Syria (and that's a big conditional; the coalition tried removing their immediate predecessor out of Iraq without much luck), they'll move back to Iraq. Remove them out of both Syria and Iraq, and they'll move to Yemen or elsewhere.

Then there are adherents to the IS ideology and aims will just form disparate al-Qaeda style groups: which might be better, but still dangerous.

We need to be in this for the long term. And we need to tackle the ideology. Now, does anyone have any ideas how to do that?

They remind me of the Nazis tbh.

How do we tackle Nazi ideology ?

One of the most important factors in the solution to the post-Nazi Germany Problem was the largest example of Ethnic Cleansing in history. The other big factor was massive financial investment in a willing population

I sense the West is not willing to go to such lengths and that there is no actual solution being put forward by the West, The West will not Ethnically Cleanse, will not create new states such as Kurdistan, will not provide huge pots of money and the populace do not appear entirely willing to accept any solution the West might offer.

The game is a bogey before it's begun, military action in Syria (and Iraq) is utterly pointless.

Worse than pointless, and where are the locals , nowhere to be seen. Another shambles these warmongering halfwits are going to get us into.

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

SquareRoot said:

blackburn63 said:

RobD said:

SquareRoot said:

You cannot win a war with air strikes. History teaches us this.. you need boots on the ground .

The US won with two rather large air strikes in '45

Dresden

Dresden was not the end of the war.. and I don't think the we are going to drop atomic bombs on ISIS. Boots on the ground after degradation will be the only way.

Dresden didn't end the war but it was pivotal and remains controversial. This is going to be dirty, it's war, but I'm afraid we're left with no options. Of course there will be people wailing when we receive recriminations but luckily we didn't stand by when Germany invaded Poland.

Dresden was totally pointless and had no military purpose, just fanatics of carpet bombing trying to promote their failed strategy.

I see the Nats are rewriting history now

Stick to comics, you are obviously not up to intelligent debate.

Are you this obnoxious in "real life" or is this an Internet persona?

I once read about inadequate young men, wearing tanktops in bed sits, alternating between youporn and message boards.

You are as stupid as your posts then , I am a mature gentleman in a nice detached house , and not at all like your personal description of yourself.
Hard to believe you can actually read.

Mature, not on the evidence of your posts.

Gentleman, not on the evidence of your posts

Sad Bastard, on the evidence of your posts. Detached house, hahaha, pathetic attempt at showing you have somehow succeeded in life. What's next, are you going to tell us abut the car you own that makes up for your inadequate penis?

Cromwell said:

RUBIO combines the sunny optimism of Reagan with the affable , slick debating skills of Bill Clinton and the youth , freshness and minority status of Obama ...he's the obvious winner !

American politics is becoming increasingly intertwined with Hollywood and the entertainment industry where youth , freshness and slick presentation beats experience , gravitas and wisdom ....this first appeared with the Hollywood-esque Kennedy , then in 1992 when Clinton defeated the statesman-like Bush , did the same with the aging WW2 veteran Dole and then reappeared again in 2008 with the rise of the ''American Idol'' Barrack Obama who took the nomination from right under Hillary and then decisively defeated the aging Vietnam war hero John Mccain

A presidential candidate MUST be in the zeitgeist

So why hasn't he? Rubio's been in the race for seven months and is way behind Trump and treading water at 9-12% in the polls. To the extent that anyone has caught the zeitgeist, it's the Donald, frightening though that might be.

Julian Lewis this morning, http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006988/Mali-Bamako-terrorist-attack-170-hostages-Paris-live.html

He said it "may well be the right answer" to accept victory for Assad as the price of defeating Isil.

"We are still faced with a civil war [in Syria] in which there are two sides, both of them unpleasant, and the West seems to want a third alternative which there is little sign of existing," he said.

"We are faced with a choice of evils: either the Islamists will win or the Syrian government will win and there is little sign of non-Islamist forces coming out on top."

blackburn63 said:

Plato_Says said:

And we need to take much better care of them when they come home http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10178403/More-British-soldiers-commit-suicide-than-die-in-battle-figures-suggest.html

Sean_F said:

saddened said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

There's a great deal of truth in that. Young men are always keen to fight despite all the evidence showing it's a really shitty experience. Must be hard wired into the human brain.

Some people enjoy fighting. They're unusual, but they certainly exist.

Malcolmg says we should stop fawning over them. I suppose he feels the same about the police in Paris.

Now you have lost the argument , you start pointing at squirrels. What has Paris got to do with desperate idiots from this country wanting to go and shoot people in Syria.
The police there are doing their jobs against terrorists, we decry people going from UK to fight in Syria and yet we have nutjobs like you who think sending our paid mercenaries over to kill the same people are heroes.
Weak , shallow people like you cause the troubles we see around the world.

Plato_Says said:

And we need to take much better care of them when they come home http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10178403/More-British-soldiers-commit-suicide-than-die-in-battle-figures-suggest.html

Sean_F said:

saddened said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

There's a great deal of truth in that. Young men are always keen to fight despite all the evidence showing it's a really shitty experience. Must be hard wired into the human brain.

Some people enjoy fighting. They're unusual, but they certainly exist.

They are paid to do a job , if they want to go and get blown up then they should get on with it when it happens.

richardDodd said:

One thing thing that seems to feed the Jihadist cells is constant and seemingly large supplies of money..in order for them to live under the radar and also to travel extensively,particularly in the EU Schengen area..If that financial lifeline was severed then the cells might begin to dwindle..

The people involved in the Paris attack seem to have been long-term resident, so presumably they had jobs or families or benefits rather than relying on external funding from ISIS. I guess the investigations will show how much money was involved in bringing the attack off, but it doesn't seem obvious that it was expensive.

david_herdson said:

Cromwell said:

RUBIO combines the sunny optimism of Reagan with the affable , slick debating skills of Bill Clinton and the youth , freshness and minority status of Obama ...he's the obvious winner !

American politics is becoming increasingly intertwined with Hollywood and the entertainment industry where youth , freshness and slick presentation beats experience , gravitas and wisdom ....this first appeared with the Hollywood-esque Kennedy , then in 1992 when Clinton defeated the statesman-like Bush , did the same with the aging WW2 veteran Dole and then reappeared again in 2008 with the rise of the ''American Idol'' Barrack Obama who took the nomination from right under Hillary and then decisively defeated the aging Vietnam war hero John Mccain

A presidential candidate MUST be in the zeitgeist

So why hasn't he? Rubio's been in the race for seven months and is way behind Trump and treading water at 9-12% in the polls. To the extent that anyone has caught the zeitgeist, it's the Donald, frightening though that might be.

Rubio's diminutive and Americans like tall Presidents.

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

SquareRoot said:

blackburn63 said:

RobD said:

SquareRoot said:

You cannot win a war with air strikes. History teaches us this.. you need boots on the ground .

The US won with two rather large air strikes in '45

Dresden

Dresden was not the end of the war.. and I don't think the we are going to drop atomic bombs on ISIS. Boots on the ground after degradation will be the only way.

Dresden didn't end the war but it was pivotal and remains controversial. This is going to be dirty, it's war, but I'm afraid we're left with no options. Of course there will be people wailing when we receive recriminations but luckily we didn't stand by when Germany invaded Poland.

Dresden was totally pointless and had no military purpose, just fanatics of carpet bombing trying to promote their failed strategy.

I see the Nats are rewriting history now

Stick to comics, you are obviously not up to intelligent debate.

Are you this obnoxious in "real life" or is this an Internet persona?

I once read about inadequate young men, wearing tanktops in bed sits, alternating between youporn and message boards.

You are as stupid as your posts then , I am a mature gentleman in a nice detached house , and not at all like your personal description of yourself.
Hard to believe you can actually read.

Mature, not on the evidence of your posts.

Gentleman, not on the evidence of your posts

Sad Bastard, on the evidence of your posts. Detached house, hahaha, pathetic attempt at showing you have somehow succeeded in life. What's next, are you going to tell us abut the car you own that makes up for your inadequate penis?

Along comes another sad failed individual. Unlike you I at least have one and a pair to go with it ,saddo. Jog on.

malcolmg said:

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

SquareRoot said:

blackburn63 said:

RobD said:

SquareRoot said:

You cannot win a war with air strikes. History teaches us this.. you need boots on the ground .

The US won with two rather large air strikes in '45

Dresden

Dresden was not the end of the war.. and I don't think the we are going to drop atomic bombs on ISIS. Boots on the ground after degradation will be the only way.

Dresden didn't end the war but it was pivotal and remains controversial. This is going to be dirty, it's war, but I'm afraid we're left with no options. Of course there will be people wailing when we receive recriminations but luckily we didn't stand by when Germany invaded Poland.

Dresden was totally pointless and had no military purpose, just fanatics of carpet bombing trying to promote their failed strategy.

I see the Nats are rewriting history now

Stick to comics, you are obviously not up to intelligent debate.

Are you this obnoxious in "real life" or is this an Internet persona?

I once read about inadequate young men, wearing tanktops in bed sits, alternating between youporn and message boards.

You are as stupid as your posts then , I am a mature gentleman in a nice detached house , and not at all like your personal description of yourself.
Hard to believe you can actually read.

Mature, not on the evidence of your posts.

Gentleman, not on the evidence of your posts

Sad Bastard, on the evidence of your posts. Detached house, hahaha, pathetic attempt at showing you have somehow succeeded in life. What's next, are you going to tell us abut the car you own that makes up for your inadequate penis?

Along comes another sad failed individual. Unlike you I at least have one and a pair to go with it ,saddo. Jog on.

Hush, you cock.

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

Plato_Says said:

And we need to take much better care of them when they come home http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/10178403/More-British-soldiers-commit-suicide-than-die-in-battle-figures-suggest.html

Sean_F said:

saddened said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

There's a great deal of truth in that. Young men are always keen to fight despite all the evidence showing it's a really shitty experience. Must be hard wired into the human brain.

Some people enjoy fighting. They're unusual, but they certainly exist.

Malcolmg says we should stop fawning over them. I suppose he feels the same about the police in Paris.

Now you have lost the argument , you start pointing at squirrels. What has Paris got to do with desperate idiots from this country wanting to go and shoot people in Syria.
The police there are doing their jobs against terrorists, we decry people going from UK to fight in Syria and yet we have nutjobs like you who think sending our paid mercenaries over to kill the same people are heroes.
Weak , shallow people like you cause the troubles we see around the world.

Oh dear Malcolm, your temper has got the better of you again.

If it wasn't for the police and troops where would the Paris tragedy have ended, I'm very grateful we have people prepared to defend the rest of us

What are you wittering about , are you gaga. The police in Paris indeed did their job, and most of the nutjobs were locals. That is far from killing innocent people in Syria for no reason whatsoever, what has happened in the UK that would justify us murdering Syrians.

''True. That's just life - events, dear boy, events as MacMillan said. Osborne will still have to face the music next week.''

Indeed. I get the feeling many tories are losing patience with Osborne. His budget cut choices are proving to be rather unpopular, particularly police and army.

MaxPB said:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/20/saudi-court-sentences-poet-to-death-for-renouncing-islam

This is who we ally ourselves with. A nnation that executes people for apostasy. Disgusting.

Agreed. It's not apostasy - other than in religious terms. It's thinking for himself. It's freedom of thought. It's freedom of speech.

One wonders how many people would choose Islam freely if the penalties for renouncing it were not so severe.

JosiasJessop said:

Pulpstar said:

JosiasJessop said:

This is why I fear people who blithely talk about 'destroying IS' - and I include our politicians in this - are being over-optimistic. IS is as much an ideology as it is a state, and sadly that ideology appeals to many.

If they remove IS out of Syria (and that's a big conditional; the coalition tried removing their immediate predecessor out of Iraq without much luck), they'll move back to Iraq. Remove them out of both Syria and Iraq, and they'll move to Yemen or elsewhere.

Then there are adherents to the IS ideology and aims will just form disparate al-Qaeda style groups: which might be better, but still dangerous.

We need to be in this for the long term. And we need to tackle the ideology. Now, does anyone have any ideas how to do that?

They remind me of the Nazis tbh.

How do we tackle Nazi ideology ?

I'm not sure they're much like the Nazis. What did the Nazis want? Amongst other things, they wanted a greater Germany that was the world's dominant power / empire, ruled by the Aryan race. The other aspects of Nazism were more means to the end, despicable as they were. Nazism was a political ideology.

What do IS want? Their own perverted version of Islam to rule either the extents of Muslim power in the past, or the world, with an added apocalyptic twist. It is a religious ideology.

Once Germany was defeated, the concept of a greater Germany was destroyed. Neo-Nazis still exist, but their threat is vastly diminished. They concentrate more on the Aryan and race-hate side of things than the concept of a German super-state, which was the real danger to the world.

Destroy IS, and the aims IS want will still exist and appeal to many sick adherents. The ideology will keep on popping up whenever countries with significant Muslim populations have internal strife.

Basically: for many people, religion matters more than politics. Someone is more likely to change vote than change religious views, especially over many years.

For the extremist, the religious and the political are effectively one and the same; it is about blind faith in the mission of redeeming humanity, which is held to be of such critical importance that nothing can be allowed to stand in its way. Look at the deification of Hitler by the regime, as the relevant example in this case; or the principle of submission to the anointed authority (Islam meaning submission, of course).

For ISIL, the need to establish a pure Caliphate is as important as the Nazi's vision of an Aryan-dominated Reich. To the extent that there's a difference, one focusses on purity of thought and deed and the other on purity of blood but those are essentially details as interpretation of the faith is held in the hands of the all-powerful and can change on a whim, as is the right of gods.

malcolmg said:

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

SquareRoot said:

blackburn63 said:

RobD said:

SquareRoot said:

You cannot win a war with air strikes. History teaches us this.. you need boots on the ground .

The US won with two rather large air strikes in '45

Dresden

Dresden was not the end of the war.. and I don't think the we are going to drop atomic bombs on ISIS. Boots on the ground after degradation will be the only way.

Dresden didn't end the war but it was pivotal and remains controversial. This is going to be dirty, it's war, but I'm afraid we're left with no options. Of course there will be people wailing when we receive recriminations but luckily we didn't stand by when Germany invaded Poland.

Dresden was totally pointless and had no military purpose, just fanatics of carpet bombing trying to promote their failed strategy.

I see the Nats are rewriting history now

Stick to comics, you are obviously not up to intelligent debate.

Are you this obnoxious in "real life" or is this an Internet persona?

I once read about inadequate young men, wearing tanktops in bed sits, alternating between youporn and message boards.

You are as stupid as your posts then , I am a mature gentleman in a nice detached house , and not at all like your personal description of yourself.
Hard to believe you can actually read.

Mature, not on the evidence of your posts.

Gentleman, not on the evidence of your posts

Sad Bastard, on the evidence of your posts. Detached house, hahaha, pathetic attempt at showing you have somehow succeeded in life. What's next, are you going to tell us abut the car you own that makes up for your inadequate penis?

Along comes another sad failed individual. Unlike you I at least have one and a pair to go with it ,saddo. Jog on.

Hush, you cock.

You seem a bit obsessed by a certain appendage , bit worrying that people like you are roaming the streets. Wishing for one is not healthy.

Hush, you cock.

''One wonders how many people would choose Islam freely if the penalties for renouncing it were not so severe.''

One of the best ways to defeat islamism is to better protect those who break from or criticise islam.

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

saddened said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

malcolmg said:

blackburn63 said:

SquareRoot said:

blackburn63 said:

RobD said:

SquareRoot said:

You cannot win a war with air strikes. History teaches us this.. you need boots on the ground .

The US won with two rather large air strikes in '45

Dresden

Dresden was not the end of the war.. and I don't think the we are going to drop atomic bombs on ISIS. Boots on the ground after degradation will be the only way.

Dresden didn't end the war but it was pivotal and remains controversial. This is going to be dirty, it's war, but I'm afraid we're left with no options. Of course there will be people wailing when we receive recriminations but luckily we didn't stand by when Germany invaded Poland.

Dresden was totally pointless and had no military purpose, just fanatics of carpet bombing trying to promote their failed strategy.

I see the Nats are rewriting history now

Stick to comics, you are obviously not up to intelligent debate.

Are you this obnoxious in "real life" or is this an Internet persona?

I once read about inadequate young men, wearing tanktops in bed sits, alternating between youporn and message boards.

You are as stupid as your posts then , I am a mature gentleman in a nice detached house , and not at all like your personal description of yourself.
Hard to believe you can actually read.

Mature, not on the evidence of your posts.

Gentleman, not on the evidence of your posts

Sad Bastard, on the evidence of your posts. Detached house, hahaha, pathetic attempt at showing you have somehow succeeded in life. What's next, are you going to tell us abut the car you own that makes up for your inadequate penis?

Along comes another sad failed individual. Unlike you I at least have one and a pair to go with it ,saddo. Jog on.

Hush, you cock.

You seem a bit obsessed by a certain appendage , bit worrying that people like you are roaming the streets. Wishing for one is not healthy.

Hush, you cock.

That shut you up loser.

Pulpstar said:

Actually virulent antisemitism is a common link between the Islamic scumbags and the Nazis.

But they're not the only regimes who have been virulently anti-Semitic in history: the Jews have been common target for hatred for hundreds of years; even in this country as far back as ?1290?.

The belief that 'we' are the true people, and everyone else are either inferior, or Untermensch, has been used by tyrants for generations. IS does not use this, at least openly: they'll accept recruits from any country. The 'we' is based on religion, not race.

(It'd be interesting to know if this is really what IS is like for recruits; whether recruits are treated equally whatever their race, as I believe they claim).

TwistedFireStopper said:

blackburn63 said:

david_herdson said:

richardDodd said:

SR..Air strikes first.. and lots of them.. weaken the opposition.. then boots

Doesn't necessarily have to be British boots, as long as those that are there are signed up to the same strategy.

Let's not disappoint our troops Mr Herdson, they didn't join up to spend their lives on Salisbury Plain.

They didn't sign up to have to fight a crazy death cult with one hand tied behind their backs, but that is what the guys I know fear will happen. They ain't looking forward to it, that's for sure.

Indeed:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11867114/Death-in-Helmand-Is-Alex-Blackman-murderer-or-merely-mortal.html

If we did send troops to Syria how long would it be before similar cases happen.

Charles said:

Pulpstar said:

Long term all the Abrahamic religions will be seen alongside Greek/Egyptian/Norse mythology for the tales they are, but that's a VERY long way off. Since Islam is one of those, and it's currently growing I guess there will always be the malcontents.

I'm not convinced - given that religious beliefs have developed in pretty much every society, it would suggest there is some evolutionary benefit (especially as the decline of traditional religions in the UK seem to have been offset by a form of mild spiritualism).

There are two few examples to really look at, but the worst examples of human behaviour (Russia, China, Cambodia, Nazi Germany etc) appear to have been in avowedly secular/non-religious societies suggesting that humans need some kind of belief in an external force to keep their worst instincts in check

Even if all the Abrahamic religions do fade away, the likelihood is they'd be replaced by other religions. The evolutionary benefit from religious practice seems to be in the form of high birthrates and resilience in the face of massive external shocks, like the Black Death.

JosiasJessop said:

Plato_Says said:

ISIS's chilling new tactic: Terror group tells British-based fanatics to stay hidden in the UK and wait until they get a signal to attack

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3327809/ISIS-s-chilling-new-tactic-Terror-group-tells-British-based-fanatics-stay-hidden-UK-wait-signal-attack.html#ixzz3s7DYLgH9

This is why I fear people who blithely talk about 'destroying IS' - and I include our politicians in this - are being over-optimistic. IS is as much an ideology as it is a state, and sadly that ideology appeals to many.

If they remove IS out of Syria (and that's a big conditional; the coalition tried removing their immediate predecessor out of Iraq without much luck), they'll move back to Iraq. Remove them out of both Syria and Iraq, and they'll move to Yemen or elsewhere.

Then there are adherents to the IS ideology and aims will just form disparate al-Qaeda style groups: which might be better, but still dangerous.

We need to be in this for the long term. And we need to tackle the ideology. Now, does anyone have any ideas how to do that?

That Majiid Nawaz article quoted yesterday has some ideas. So does Ayan Hirsi Ali. There are other Muslim writers who have come up with ideas. They have not been listened to as they should be. And there have been ideas posted on this forum during this year (at least).

3 initial thoughts:-

1. An ideological battle starts by recognising that you are in such a battle and that you have to fight a bad ideology by pointing out repeatedly and forcefully in as many fora and in as many different ways as possible why it is bad and how bad it is. This requires more than emoting and wailing. Pointing out the hypocrisies and self-delusions of the bad ideology is also needed.

2. You defeat bad ideas by promoting better ones.

3. You do not hold back in doing 1 and 2 because the bad ideas you are fighting are grounded in and/or have some tenuous connection with a religion.

The West has failed to do 1, has been pathetic in doing 2 and has done far too much of 3.

Change that and we have made a start. And there are other practical measures we can take.

A war is not carried on by fighting alone.

Pulpstar said:

Cromwell said:

RUBIO combines the sunny optimism of Reagan with the affable , slick debating skills of Bill Clinton and the youth , freshness and minority status of Obama ...he's the obvious winner !

American politics is becoming increasingly intertwined with Hollywood and the entertainment industry where youth , freshness and slick presentation beats experience , gravitas and wisdom ....this first appeared with the Hollywood-esque Kennedy , then in 1992 when Clinton defeated the statesman-like Bush , did the same with the aging WW2 veteran Dole and then reappeared again in 2008 with the rise of the ''American Idol'' Barrack Obama who took the nomination from right under Hillary and then decisively defeated the aging Vietnam war hero John Mccain

A presidential candidate MUST be in the zeitgeist

Rubio is also lurking around with Carson and Cruz on ~ 10-15%, a mile behind the Donald. His 6-4 and below price is ludicrous.

=====================================
You don't know how to ''read between the lines '' ...if you were a homicide detective you couldn't identify your own feet by looking down

Trump and Carson are just noise , nothing more ; only Rubio and then Cruz are serious contenders ....Rubio will win N H and MAY even win Iowa ....Rubio or CRUZ will win Iowa

Rubio is going to catch afire and then burn all the way to the convention, building up a momentum that will steamroll over Hillary

Short of an ''act of God '' , Rubio will win ! .....naturally , It's possible that he gets caught in Flagrante Delicti , a la Gary Hart , or God forbid , gets assassinated by an Arab terrorist like Bobby Kennedy in 1968 .... or even becomes the victim of an aircraft disaster like Paul Wellstone ! But let's face it , he would have to be very , very unlucky indeed ...it's much more likely that he just becomes president of the United States

Rubio is like Reagan insomuch that his sunny optimism and affable nature makes him a ''lucky politician ''

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Dair said:

JosiasJessop said:

Once Germany was defeated, the concept of a greater Germany was destroyed. Neo-Nazis still exist, but their threat is vastly diminished. They concentrate more on the Aryan and race-hate side of things than the concept of a German super-state, which was the real danger to the world.

While I agree with your sentiment about the quite apparent differences between IS and Nazism, I think it's worth exanding on your point here.

Nazism didn't end because Germany was beaten, certainly the ideas that made it popular did not die. What killed both Nazism and the idea of a Greater Germany off were specific, political doctrines of De-Nazification, De-Prussification and the biggest Ethnic Cleansing in history.

The equivalent in Syria would be De-Baathism, De-Islamification and substantial Ethnic Cleansing which would be smaller than East Prussia but much closer to that example than any other example in history.

A fundamental root of Nazism was virulent anti-semitism. Sadly, there are still people with those kinds of views and probably will be for a very long time.

I'm not sure - the Nazis seemed fairly non-discriminatory in the "other" that they sought to massacre: they didn't really care if you were Jewish, Roma, homosexual or whatever.

Nazism had its roots in economic dislocation, a sense of national betrayal, and a lack of hope for the future. The creation of an Other as a focus for discontent is a part of the process, but not a fundamental root.

Indeed, the Fascists in both Spain and Italy (until it became German puppet state near the end) had no anti-Semetic laws.

Morris_Dancer said:

Incidentally, the third series of The Bridge starts tonight. Annoyingly, they've yet again double-shotted it, so it runs from 9-11pm on BBC4.

This time with added border controls.

Population exchanges Greece, Turkey in 1923, euphemistic term for forced expulsions.

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Dair said:

JosiasJessop said:

Once Germany was defeated, the concept of a greater Germany was destroyed. Neo-Nazis still exist, but their threat is vastly diminished. They concentrate more on the Aryan and race-hate side of things than the concept of a German super-state, which was the real danger to the world.

While I agree with your sentiment about the quite apparent differences between IS and Nazism, I think it's worth exanding on your point here.

Nazism didn't end because Germany was beaten, certainly the ideas that made it popular did not die. What killed both Nazism and the idea of a Greater Germany off were specific, political doctrines of De-Nazification, De-Prussification and the biggest Ethnic Cleansing in history.

The equivalent in Syria would be De-Baathism, De-Islamification and substantial Ethnic Cleansing which would be smaller than East Prussia but much closer to that example than any other example in history.

A fundamental root of Nazism was virulent anti-semitism. Sadly, there are still people with those kinds of views and probably will be for a very long time.

I'm not sure - the Nazis seemed fairly non-discriminatory in the "other" that they sought to massacre: they didn't really care if you were Jewish, Roma, homosexual or whatever.

Nazism had its roots in economic dislocation, a sense of national betrayal, and a lack of hope for the future. The creation of an Other as a focus for discontent is a part of the process, but not a fundamental root.

No, virulent anti-Semitism was absolutely core to Nazi ideology. You're right that it was far from the only group singled out. All 'deviant' lifestyles and sub-Aryan races were indeed subject to at best discrimination and at worst extermination but the Jews were held by the Nazi race-based ideology to be in a class of their own as, unlike blacks for example, Jews were held to be clever, corrupting and untrustworthy: capable of insidiously gaining control of countries while simultaneously undermining their cultural and moral strength. By contrast, blacks were not seen to pose that same threat, being mentally inferior to whites but suitable for menial work. As such, had the Nazis won the war, it's unlikely that there'd have been plans for mass extermination across Africa: attempts at re-enslavement would be much more likely. The Roma, however, may have ended up being targeted for extermination as a 'parasite' race.

Cromwell said:

JackW said:

Hillary Clinton Will Be The Forty Fifth President Of The United States

HCWBTFFPOTUS

------------------------

Frame that comment for posterity and the day after election day take a look at yourself in the mirror and then try not to laugh

I regret to advise you that you will be joining a grumbling list of my disappointed PB adversaries who attempted take a conflicting opinion to mine on US and UK general elections.

Join the long queue at the back.

The Times latest article on Oldham claims only 1 in 20 of those they spoke to there is enthusiastic about Corbyn, FWIW.

Even if people don;t transfer to UKIP, I guess its possible there could simply be a huge no show for Corbyn.

david_herdson said:

Charles said:

rottenborough said:

Dair said:

JosiasJessop said:

Once Germany was defeated, the concept of a greater Germany was destroyed. Neo-Nazis still exist, but their threat is vastly diminished. They concentrate more on the Aryan and race-hate side of things than the concept of a German super-state, which was the real danger to the world.

While I agree with your sentiment about the quite apparent differences between IS and Nazism, I think it's worth exanding on your point here.

Nazism didn't end because Germany was beaten, certainly the ideas that made it popular did not die. What killed both Nazism and the idea of a Greater Germany off were specific, political doctrines of De-Nazification, De-Prussification and the biggest Ethnic Cleansing in history.

The equivalent in Syria would be De-Baathism, De-Islamification and substantial Ethnic Cleansing which would be smaller than East Prussia but much closer to that example than any other example in history.

A fundamental root of Nazism was virulent anti-semitism. Sadly, there are still people with those kinds of views and probably will be for a very long time.

I'm not sure - the Nazis seemed fairly non-discriminatory in the "other" that they sought to massacre: they didn't really care if you were Jewish, Roma, homosexual or whatever.

Nazism had its roots in economic dislocation, a sense of national betrayal, and a lack of hope for the future. The creation of an Other as a focus for discontent is a part of the process, but not a fundamental root.

No, virulent anti-Semitism was absolutely core to Nazi ideology. You're right that it was far from the only group singled out. All 'deviant' lifestyles and sub-Aryan races were indeed subject to at best discrimination and at worst extermination but the Jews were held by the Nazi race-based ideology to be in a class of their own as, unlike blacks for example, Jews were held to be clever, corrupting and untrustworthy: capable of insidiously gaining control of countries while simultaneously undermining their cultural and moral strength. By contrast, blacks were not seen to pose that same threat, being mentally inferior to whites but suitable for menial work. As such, had the Nazis won the war, it's unlikely that there'd have been plans for mass extermination across Africa: attempts at re-enslavement would be much more likely. The Roma, however, may have ended up being targeted for extermination as a 'parasite' race.

I think we are arguing different things.

I'd agree it was core to their ideology (drawing on historical traditions in Germany and Eastern Europe of pogroms) but not a root.

Nazism - or something similar - would have existed without anti-semitism.

Innocent_Abroad said:

richardDodd said:

Corbyn states that war should be the last resort...good idea..except he needs to realise that ISIS has already declared war ..on everybody.....Come on Labour ... get rid of your idiot leader..

You're just the person they'll listen to.

A voter?

no, you are right they really aren't interested in their points of view.

''Effectively, we have to teach that penalties for apostasy in this country are wrong.''

Indeed. The trade off for you being free to worship your god is you allow others to worship theirs, or none at all.

''I dare say a few 'Community Leaders' will be casting thousands of votes for Labour.''

We do have individual voter registration now.

If there are irregularities, and the result is close, it may be in UKIP's interest to mount a legal challenge.

Floater said:

Scott_P said:

My Twitter timeline is full on angry Nats demanding IndyRef2 if we start bombing in Syria.

Until now.

@neiledwardlovat: Sturgeon switches policy on Syria and the crazy gang instantly change their mind.... I've read about this before.... https://t.co/eZBKrpSvum

Is there another kind of Nat than angry?

Drunk?

Kevin_McCandless said:

You need the UN as cover (or some sort of international consensus) because ISIS's fate is now tied with Syria's fate. Once the former falls, you have to deal with the swathe of land they controlled, tying up the civil war, Assad's exile and the minimum amount of nation fixing-up involved. These are pretty massive tasks. I don't think any combo of carpet bombing and optimistically overmotivated Kurdish peshmerge is going to do the trick.

Other than Russia and possibly Syria (if you count their barrel bombs) who do you think are carpet bombing?

0_o http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/12006988/Mali-Bamako-terrorist-attack-170-hostages-Paris-live.html#update-20151121-1045

Paris has stepped up security at key water supply sites to the capital following warnings by the prime minister that the country could not rule out “chemical or biological weapons” in the wake of the deadly terrorist attacks on the French capital.

The higher security comes amid reports of a worrying unexplained theft of chemical and biological protective suits at a top Paris hospital, write Henry Samuel and David Chazan.

taffys said:

''I dare say a few 'Community Leaders' will be casting thousands of votes for Labour.''

We do have individual voter registration now.

If there are irregularities, and the result is close, it may be in UKIP's interest to mount a legal challenge.

We also have postal voting which facilitates vote controlling.