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Attention Tory leadership candidates: 71% of party members inclined to @vote_leave https://t.co/zxhtCslumi pic.twitter.com/TJZRtKSL6f
Comments
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First.0
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Isn't this based on respondents to the ConHome website though?0
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Yep. That is a pretty good poll for Remain on Ukiphome!TheWhiteRabbit said:Isn't this based on respondents to the ConHome website though?
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odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high0
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crazy is as crazy does0
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We got 761 Party member responses to the poll out of a total of 1756 replies.
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seems far too high. I would say a large majority of Cons members are out-leaning waverers, having until, say, pre-migrant crisis, been in-leaning waverers. That still leaves us a long way from 74% out IMO.0
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Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.0
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Sneaky and loaded question. I'm "inclined to leave" but I'm 90% certain I will vote to remain and I think the vast majority of tory members will too.0
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Tory members maybe, Tory voters are split 50 50 in most polls
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Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
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That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
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Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence:
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/661510162063032321
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Yes.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
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I'm thinking of doing a thread about saying the EU referendum should be a multi option referendumTOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
Do you want to
a) Leave the EU
b) Remain in the EU
c) Become like Norway
d) Join NAFTA
e) Join the EEA/EFTA
This would mean the referendum has to be conducted under AV.
Think of the joys, discussing the EEA/AFTA and AV all in one thread.0 -
What we need is TSE's magnum opus on AV to get the juices flowing!TOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
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I am genuinely undecided but I have this instinctive feeling that if David Cameron announces his intention is to recommend to remain the likely result will be a comfortable remain. However, I do hope he respects all the views in the Conservative party and allows all the Ministers and MP's to campaign for or against on the understanding that both sides will accept the result, whatever it is, and come together after the result in a unified party0
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http://blogs.new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/left-no-longer-happy-family/MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence:
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/661510162063032321
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Yes.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
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@AndyDataSci: Peak Google searches for Cameron, Corbyn, Boris, Osborne, May. Turns out #piggate killed Corbynmania.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CS6tceYXAAUZhDb.jpg0 -
UKIPs media always seem to highlight random sentences that don't quite flow IMOMP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence:
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/661510162063032321
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Yes.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
eg if they feel the need to highlight some words here "Corbyn...anthem" would be better I think0 -
By 'juices' I assume you mean bile, tears and vomit...foxinsoxuk said:
What we need is TSE's magnum opus on AV to get the juices flowing!TOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
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f) join the galactic republic?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of doing a thread about saying the EU referendum should be a multi option referendumTOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
Do you want to
a) Leave the EU
b) Remain in the EU
c) Become like Norway
d) Join NAFTA
e) Join the EEA/EFTA
This would mean the referendum has to be conducted under AV.
Think of the joys, discussing the EEA/AFTA and AV all in one thread.
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I noticed at conference there was a real desire on all sides to i) Give Cameron time/the benefit of the doubt ii) Present a united frontBig_G_NorthWales said:I am genuinely undecided but I have this instinctive feeling that if David Cameron announces his intention is to recommend to remain the likely result will be a comfortable remain. However, I do hope he respects all the views in the Conservative party and allows all the Ministers and MP's to campaign for or against on the understanding that both sides will accept the result, whatever it is, and come together after the result in a unified party
I think it was the soap dodgers hurling abuse at we shy retiring Tories that also probably contributed in the united front.0 -
No, the bile, tears and vomit will come when I add the Scottish Independence angle.Anorak said:
By 'juices' I assume you mean bile, tears and vomit...foxinsoxuk said:
What we need is TSE's magnum opus on AV to get the juices flowing!TOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
"Brexit could trigger Scottish secession, the polls show England wants Scotland to remain the in Union so we can rob them blind of their oil revenues, so will England 'take one for the team' and vote Remain to keep in the Union?"0 -
OK. But if his respect for the Conservative Party countermands his duty to provide collective cabinet responsibility, he or his successor will pay the price.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am genuinely undecided but I have this instinctive feeling that if David Cameron announces his intention is to recommend to remain the likely result will be a comfortable remain. However, I do hope he respects all the views in the Conservative party and allows all the Ministers and MP's to campaign for or against on the understanding that both sides will accept the result, whatever it is, and come together after the result in a unified party
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f) Reform The Seventh Coalition with the Germans and batter the French via the EU.TheWhiteRabbit said:
f) join the galactic republic?TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm thinking of doing a thread about saying the EU referendum should be a multi option referendumTOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
Do you want to
a) Leave the EU
b) Remain in the EU
c) Become like Norway
d) Join NAFTA
e) Join the EEA/EFTA
This would mean the referendum has to be conducted under AV.
Think of the joys, discussing the EEA/AFTA and AV all in one thread.0 -
It's a carbon copy of the Labour party in reverse.
Members getting themselves wound up into a frenzy over stuff the general public has very little interest in.0 -
FPT
For election results after 1931, consult Richard Kimber's Political Science Resources website
For anything before, the reference books of FWS Craig0 -
Tim 'busted by the election flush' Montie, someone I've increasingly got bored of as he's toyed with kipperdom.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
He's definitely one of those 'tories obsessed with europe' and thus not coming in our new Tory party - well not if I can help it!!!0 -
He's buggering off to the USA for the next year and focussing on American politics.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Tim 'busted by the election flush' Montie, someone I've increasingly got bored of as he's toyed with kipperdom.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
He's definitely one of those 'tories obsessed with europe' and thus not coming in our new Tory party - well not if I can help it!!!
Just rejoice at that news0 -
Thanks. An entertaining read. I hope Corbyn and his comrades stick around.Cyclefree said:0 -
Why not let them secede, but build a series of artificial Islands first, all across the oil fields (like China and the Spratlys). We claim territorial rights, and we have a nice navy to back it up. Scotland would have a gun boat filled with angry Glaswegians; we'd have a couple of aircraft carriers and some nuclear subs.TheScreamingEagles said:
No, the bile, tears and vomit will come when I add the Scottish Independence angle.Anorak said:
By 'juices' I assume you mean bile, tears and vomit...foxinsoxuk said:
What we need is TSE's magnum opus on AV to get the juices flowing!TOPPING said:
That said, if it means we can avoid endless posts about the nuances of interpretation of EEA/EFTA, etc I will happily discuss it all night.SquareRoot said:odds on this being a voodoo poll .... high
"Brexit could trigger Scottish secession, the polls show England wants Scotland to remain the in Union so we can rob them blind of their oil revenues, so will England 'take one for the team' and vote Remain to keep in the Union?"0 -
I thought our national anthem was "God Save the Queen" not "God Save the Armed Forces"MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence:
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/661510162063032321
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Yes.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
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Much as I would love it to be true there are so many holes in this poll that I don't think it is possible to really draw anything from it.0
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Perhaps he'll get something right pontificating on that nation's politics.TheScreamingEagles said:
He's buggering off to the USA for the next year and focussing on American politics.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Tim 'busted by the election flush' Montie, someone I've increasingly got bored of as he's toyed with kipperdom.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
He's definitely one of those 'tories obsessed with europe' and thus not coming in our new Tory party - well not if I can help it!!!
Just rejoice at that news
I won't hold my breath.0 -
Evening all.
Wasn’t this poll mentioned the other day on PB and is based on a ConHome vox populi?
If so, it’s utterly worthless.
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I believe Montie is equally anti-tax credit changess, so is presumably a new favourite pundit for pb threads...SimonStClare said:Evening all.
Wasn’t this poll mentioned the other day on PB and is based on a ConHome vox populi?
If so, it’s utterly worthless.0 -
Massive fail not to have a poppy on his M&S lapel. Cove's obviously a conchie.MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence:
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/661510162063032321
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.0 -
FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?0 -
He had a bucket of plastic poppies melted down and injected intravenously. Patriotic love of our armed services literally runs though his veins.Theuniondivvie said:
Massive fail not to have a poppy on his M&S lapel. Cove's obviously a conchie.MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence:
https://twitter.com/UKIP/status/661510162063032321
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.0 -
The little I would draw from it is that Tory activists are still rather more anti EU than Tory supporters generally. I don't find that at all surprising. It might indicate that Cameron might find it harder than he expects if he tried to utilise CCHQ resources in favour of a remain vote. I don't find that surprising either.0
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How can you doubt Montie?Scrapheap_as_was said:
Perhaps he'll get something right pontificating on that nation's politics.TheScreamingEagles said:
He's buggering off to the USA for the next year and focussing on American politics.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Tim 'busted by the election flush' Montie, someone I've increasingly got bored of as he's toyed with kipperdom.foxinsoxuk said:
Does Ashcroft still have an interest in the site?saddened said:Tim Montgomerie, really? Yesterday's man and then some.
He's definitely one of those 'tories obsessed with europe' and thus not coming in our new Tory party - well not if I can help it!!!
Just rejoice at that news
I won't hold my breath.
Tory campaign strategist Lynton Crosby has been coming under increasing pressure over recent days from inside the Conservative Party, with many blaming him for the negative approach to the campaign so far. Last month, high ranking Tories privately admitted that the Crosby has “got the whole tone wrong”.
Many on the right suspect that Crosby was the brains behind Michael Fallon’s intervention on Trident today, which has come under fire for both being untrue and an unnecessarily personal attack on Ed Miliband. Former ConservativeHome editor and Times columnist Tim Montgomerie said that Fallon’s article was “embarrassing”:
http://bit.ly/1MfFzrS0 -
Montgomerie ratchets up the pressure…..
Arf, I don’t think so - He hasn’t been a mover or a shaker in almost a decade.
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The problem is that I also get invited to take these surveys and the only thing stopping me from claiming to be a Tory party member as far as I can tell is my own desire not to mislead. My wife used to be a party member and would take these polls as well and I have seen no evidence of any verification of who is a party member and who is not.Casino_Royale said:FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?0 -
True - but the evidence on here suggest the party is split down the middle on this. It wouldn't surprise me if the true picture were 60%/40% to Leave, now, so it's not miles out.Richard_Tyndall said:
The problem is that I also get invited to take these surveys and the only thing stopping me from claiming to be a Tory party member as far as I can tell is my own desire not to mislead. My wife used to be a party member and would take these polls as well and I have seen no evidence of any verification of who is a party member and who is not.Casino_Royale said:FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?
The good news is the discussion is fairly amicable. The message to Cameron is to tread carefully. The message to future Tory leaders is don't think it's over after the vote.0 -
Posted this in the last thread because nobody, looking at you TSE, mentioned there was a new one. However it is just as applicable here as there so I shall break a rule and post it again:
Gosh, just catching up and there have been some really good and interesting posts this evening - Mrs. Free leading the charge as usual.
There have also been on or two posts that have fallen below that high standard. In that regard it is with great regret that I have to include this comment from the normally excellent Dr. Sox,
"Britain and Russia are the bookends of Europe. Neither of us feel we entirely belong, and there is both a suspicion and a degree of jelousy about the countries in the middle."
There is no suspicion about France, there is stone-cold hard fact backed by 900 years of evidence. As for jealousy, I fear the good Doctor may have of drink taken and to excess. What, with the possible exception of the German education system, is there to be jealous of in Europe.
The jealousy runs the other way which is of course why most of the continent have been trying to shaft us for the last couple of centuries. The only honourable exceptions being the Portuguese, with whom we are BFF and have been since 1373, and the Cloggies with whom we should be BFF but our politicians are too stupid to capitalise on the great friendship the two peoples have for each other.0 -
Indeed. The frothing and headbanging wing has been exported to Nigel's demesne. I'm not convinced the conviviality will last, but it's better than I'd feared for now.Casino_Royale said:
The good news is the discussion is fairly amicable. The message to Cameron is to tread carefully. The message to future Tory leaders is don't think it's over after the vote.Richard_Tyndall said:
The problem is that I also get invited to take these surveys and the only thing stopping me from claiming to be a Tory party member as far as I can tell is my own desire not to mislead. My wife used to be a party member and would take these polls as well and I have seen no evidence of any verification of who is a party member and who is not.Casino_Royale said:FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?0 -
Farage's blunder last week about using the referendum to topple Dave will also help Tory unity.Anorak said:
Indeed. The frothing and headbanging wing has been exported to Nigel's demesne. I'm not convinced the conviviality will last, but it's better than I'd feared for now.Casino_Royale said:
The good news is the discussion is fairly amicable. The message to Cameron is to tread carefully. The message to future Tory leaders is don't think it's over after the vote.Richard_Tyndall said:
The problem is that I also get invited to take these surveys and the only thing stopping me from claiming to be a Tory party member as far as I can tell is my own desire not to mislead. My wife used to be a party member and would take these polls as well and I have seen no evidence of any verification of who is a party member and who is not.Casino_Royale said:FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?0 -
ConservativeHome is probably a good barometer for grass-roots right-wingers. It's not clear that they speak for anyone else.
Meanwhile, perhaps of interest for those who've suspected Corbyn of anti-semitism:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/03/gerald-kaufmans-jewish-money-condemned-jeremy-corbyn
Kaufman is Jewish himself and a member of the left-wing Jewish campaign group Paole Zion, but very pro-Palestinian (he's also incidentally the Father of the House).0 -
ConHome is normally pretty accurate, for example they got the 2005 Tory leadership result pretty much spot on. Tory members are more sceptic than Tory voters though who are split down the middle on the EURichard_Tyndall said:
The problem is that I also get invited to take these surveys and the only thing stopping me from claiming to be a Tory party member as far as I can tell is my own desire not to mislead. My wife used to be a party member and would take these polls as well and I have seen no evidence of any verification of who is a party member and who is not.Casino_Royale said:FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?0 -
@Casino_Royale
Hope you are still around - do you mind if I PM you?
Wanted to get your take on implications of a major transport infrastructure initiative - think that's your field?
Ta muchly0 -
I typed in the results for 1931 and 1935. Haven't got round to 1929 yet. It's very time-consuming.EPG said:FPT
For election results after 1931, consult Richard Kimber's Political Science Resources website
For anything before, the reference books of FWS Craig0 -
lol based on a self selecting survey of two UKIP anoraks + Tim Montegomerie0
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Not too sure what to make of this -
FBI Director Comey made a speech the other day saying that the increase in the crime rate is because politicians are not supporting the police. The White House immediately came out and denied it. Director Comey then made another speech a day or so later saying the same thing again.
The talking heads on both CNN and Fox News opined that this was a sign that the FBI was fed up with political interference and was thus a threat to Hillary Clinton in her email scandal.
They must know something.0 -
Nick: I enjoy my debates with you, particularly the one about your family on the previous thread and your link to the website on left debates about the EU, for which, thank you.NickPalmer said:ConservativeHome is probably a good barometer for grass-roots right-wingers. It's not clear that they speak for anyone else.
Meanwhile, perhaps of interest for those who've suspected Corbyn of anti-semitism:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/03/gerald-kaufmans-jewish-money-condemned-jeremy-corbyn
Kaufman is Jewish himself and a member of the left-wing Jewish campaign group Paole Zion, but very pro-Palestinian (he's also incidentally the Father of the House).
But you are being naughty here. No-one accused Corbyn of being anti-Semitic himself. The accusation was that he hung around with those who were and/or was indifferent to those who were anti-Semitic if they were otherwise useful to him or on his side in some cause he did care about.
Good he condemned Kaufman's remarks. Not good that it took him as long as it did. And I query why he refers to the remarks not being helpful to the Palestinian cause. Would the remarks have been OK if they HAD helped the Palestinian cause? If not, why mention it at all?
Now, shall we see how long it takes him to criticise Andy Slaughter? Or Stop the War for their refusal to allow a victim of Assad's torture to speak about his experiences?
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Jealous is perhaps the wrong word but there are masses of things both big and small that various European countries do better than the UK - just as there are many things we do better. I would point to a number of the European health systems as an example of one of the big things.HurstLlama said:Posted this in the last thread because nobody, looking at you TSE, mentioned there was a new one. However it is just as applicable here as there so I shall break a rule and post it again:
Gosh, just catching up and there have been some really good and interesting posts this evening - Mrs. Free leading the charge as usual.
There have also been on or two posts that have fallen below that high standard. In that regard it is with great regret that I have to include this comment from the normally excellent Dr. Sox,
"Britain and Russia are the bookends of Europe. Neither of us feel we entirely belong, and there is both a suspicion and a degree of jelousy about the countries in the middle."
There is no suspicion about France, there is stone-cold hard fact backed by 900 years of evidence. As for jealousy, I fear the good Doctor may have of drink taken and to excess. What, with the possible exception of the German education system, is there to be jealous of in Europe.
The jealousy runs the other way which is of course why most of the continent have been trying to shaft us for the last couple of centuries. The only honourable exceptions being the Portuguese, with whom we are BFF and have been since 1373, and the Cloggies with whom we should be BFF but our politicians are too stupid to capitalise on the great friendship the two peoples have for each other.
This is not an argument for membership of a supra-national organisation like the EU but nor should opposition to that organisation blind us to the fact that there is still a great deal we could learn from our European neighbours (and incidently many other first world countries around the globe)
Trying to pretend we are better than everyone else at everything is a mugs game.0 -
Even if one disagrees with Kaufman's language, is he factually incorrect ? He should know. As you say he is Jewish himself.NickPalmer said:ConservativeHome is probably a good barometer for grass-roots right-wingers. It's not clear that they speak for anyone else.
Meanwhile, perhaps of interest for those who've suspected Corbyn of anti-semitism:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/03/gerald-kaufmans-jewish-money-condemned-jeremy-corbyn
Kaufman is Jewish himself and a member of the left-wing Jewish campaign group Paole Zion, but very pro-Palestinian (he's also incidentally the Father of the House).
Personally, I would not use the expression "Jew" or "Jewish" myself. It is the Israeli government which is the occupier. To hold all Jews responsible would be wrong. Israel kills Palestinians and bulldozes their homes in complete violation of any international law. And no one condemns them. For some reason US and UK political parties are scared of them.
In the US, frankly, only Florida is a swing state where Israeli supporters could change the outcome. NY and NJ are spoken about. But the Democratic majority is greater than the Jewish vote even if all were to vote for the Republicans which they would not. Most Jews in the US are progressive people. In Britain, electorally, the Israeli supporters are hardly important.
Many in the media , however, do have connections with Israel. Kaufman to his credit has spoken out despite his own connections with the community. Money also talks.
Brave man !0 -
The Egyptian president has turned up in London and is asking Cameron to finish the job Cameron and co started in Libya. It would seem that the Egyptians are not totally grateful for HMG creating a failed state packed full of islamic extremists and then buggering off leaving the Egyptians with a problem.
Who would have thought that going to war without planning for the aftermath would be a really stupid idea? I suppose Cameron thought it was OK to do just that because Blair did it with Iraq and as we know Cameron thinks he is the real "Heir to Blair".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/11973648/Egyptian-President-Sisi-tells-UK-finish-job-in-Libya-to-stop-another-Syria.html0 -
A number of posters have missed the point of OGH's thread. The significance is not the poll, which is bollocks. It is that Tim Montgomerie is expressly linking it to the Tory leadership election.
Personally if I were an ambitious Conservative, I'd look at what Tim Montgomerie was suggesting and do the opposite: his track record is poor. But unaccountably he has influence in Conservative circles.0 -
The murderer is here ? Someone should get hold of a citizen's warrant and have him arrested like Pinochet !HurstLlama said:The Egyptian president has turned up in London and is asking Cameron to finish the job Cameron and co started in Libya. It would seem that the Egyptians are not totally grateful for HMG creating a failed state packed full of islamic extremists and then buggering off leaving the Egyptians with a problem.
Who would have thought that going to war without planning for the aftermath would be a really stupid idea? I suppose Cameron thought it was OK to do just that because Blair did it with Iraq and as we know Cameron thinks he is the real "Heir to Blair".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/11973648/Egyptian-President-Sisi-tells-UK-finish-job-in-Libya-to-stop-another-Syria.html
Western governments tend to think that bombing the hell out of a country finishes the job ! They are always surprised that, apparently, the mission is not necessarily accomplished.0 -
I am stone cold sober (having a teetotal, vegetarian and generally abstemios November in preparation for the Bachannalia of December).HurstLlama said:Posted this in the last thread because nobody, looking at you TSE, mentioned there was a new one. However it is just as applicable here as there so I shall break a rule and post it again:
Gosh, just catching up and there have been some really good and interesting posts this evening - Mrs. Free leading the charge as usual.
There have also been on or two posts that have fallen below that high standard. In that regard it is with great regret that I have to include this comment from the normally excellent Dr. Sox,
"Britain and Russia are the bookends of Europe. Neither of us feel we entirely belong, and there is both a suspicion and a degree of jelousy about the countries in the middle."
There is no suspicion about France, there is stone-cold hard fact backed by 900 years of evidence. As for jealousy, I fear the good Doctor may have of drink taken and to excess. What, with the possible exception of the German education system, is there to be jealous of in Europe.
The jealousy runs the other way which is of course why most of the continent have been trying to shaft us for the last couple of centuries. The only honourable exceptions being the Portuguese, with whom we are BFF and have been since 1373, and the Cloggies with whom we should be BFF but our politicians are too stupid to capitalise on the great friendship the two peoples have for each other.
Portugal is also a bookend/liminal part of Europe looking outwards rather than inwards, so perhaps should be classed with Britain and Russia (as should perhaps Turkey also).
But I fear you are wrong. From Belgian Beer, to German engineering, to Spanish siestas to the Italian dolce vitae, Greek sunsets, Finnish saunas and the trans-carpathian forests there is much to be jealous of in Europe. Even that curious Danish complacency of hygge.0 -
Elliot Bidgood @ElliotBidgood 27m27 minutes ago
Elliot Bidgood Retweeted Guido Fawkes
If I'm right, think this means rough spend-per-vote was Kendall £8.69, Burnham £4.20, Cooper £4.60, Corbyn £1.470 -
As ever the voice of reason here. God only knows why The Times demeans itself by employing himantifrank said:A number of posters have missed the point of OGH's thread. The significance is not the poll, which is bollocks. It is that Tim Montgomerie is expressly linking it to the Tory leadership election.
Personally if I were an ambitious Conservative, I'd look at what Tim Montgomerie was suggesting and do the opposite: his track record is poor. But unaccountably he has influence in Conservative circles.0 -
Of course its a mugs game and only a complete idiot would indulge in it and of course other countries do some things much better than we do and we could and should learn from them. By the way we could also learn some good lessons from countries who are not considered to be in the first world.Richard_Tyndall said:
Jealous is perhaps the wrong word but there are masses of things both big and small that various European countries do better than the UK - just as there are many things we do better. I would point to a number of the European health systems as an example of one of the big things.HurstLlama said:Posted this in the last thread because nobody, looking at you TSE, mentioned there was a new one. However it is just as applicable here as there so I shall break a rule and post it again:
Gosh, just catching up and there have been some really good and interesting posts this evening - Mrs. Free leading the charge as usual.
There have also been on or two posts that have fallen below that high standard. In that regard it is with great regret that I have to include this comment from the normally excellent Dr. Sox,
"Britain and Russia are the bookends of Europe. Neither of us feel we entirely belong, and there is both a suspicion and a degree of jelousy about the countries in the middle."
There is no suspicion about France, there is stone-cold hard fact backed by 900 years of evidence. As for jealousy, I fear the good Doctor may have of drink taken and to excess. What, with the possible exception of the German education system, is there to be jealous of in Europe.
The jealousy runs the other way which is of course why most of the continent have been trying to shaft us for the last couple of centuries. The only honourable exceptions being the Portuguese, with whom we are BFF and have been since 1373, and the Cloggies with whom we should be BFF but our politicians are too stupid to capitalise on the great friendship the two peoples have for each other.
This is not an argument for membership of a supra-national organisation like the EU but nor should opposition to that organisation blind us to the fact that there is still a great deal we could learn from our European neighbours (and incidently many other first world countries around the globe)
Trying to pretend we are better than everyone else at everything is a mugs game.
However, that was not what the doctor was suggesting - suspicion and jealousy of European states were the topics. With tongue firmly in cheek I hope I demolished his argument. Suspicious of France, indeed - the man was blithering.0 -
Oh no, another poster with an avatar that my uncultured mind will confuse with Richard Nabavi and JackW.HisEminence said:
As ever the voice of reason here. God only knows why The Times demeans itself by employing himantifrank said:A number of posters have missed the point of OGH's thread. The significance is not the poll, which is bollocks. It is that Tim Montgomerie is expressly linking it to the Tory leadership election.
Personally if I were an ambitious Conservative, I'd look at what Tim Montgomerie was suggesting and do the opposite: his track record is poor. But unaccountably he has influence in Conservative circles.0 -
I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.0 -
Consider it traditional British understatement. Of course we suspect the French and the Russians the Germans, how could it be otherwise?HurstLlama said:
Of course its a mugs game and only a complete idiot would indulge in it and of course other countries do some things much better than we do and we could and should learn from them. By the way we could also learn some good lessons from countries who are not considered to be in the first world.Richard_Tyndall said:
Jealous is perhaps the wrong word but there are masses of things both big and small that various European countries do better than the UK - just as there are many things we do better. I would point to a number of the European health systems as an example of one of the big things.HurstLlama said:Posted this in the last thread because nobody, looking at you TSE, mentioned there was a new one. However it is just as applicable here as there so I shall break a rule and post it again:
Gosh, just catching up and there have been some really good and interesting posts this evening - Mrs. Free leading the charge as usual.
There have also been on or two posts that have fallen below that high standard. In that regard it is with great regret that I have to include this comment from the normally excellent Dr. Sox,
"Britain and Russia are the bookends of Europe. Neither of us feel we entirely belong, and there is both a suspicion and a degree of jelousy about the countries in the middle."
There is no suspicion about France, there is stone-cold hard fact backed by 900 years of evidence. As for jealousy, I fear the good Doctor may have of drink taken and to excess. What, with the possible exception of the German education system, is there to be jealous of in Europe.
The jealousy runs the other way which is of course why most of the continent have been trying to shaft us for the last couple of centuries. The only honourable exceptions being the Portuguese, with whom we are BFF and have been since 1373, and the Cloggies with whom we should be BFF but our politicians are too stupid to capitalise on the great friendship the two peoples have for each other.
This is not an argument for membership of a supra-national organisation like the EU but nor should opposition to that organisation blind us to the fact that there is still a great deal we could learn from our European neighbours (and incidently many other first world countries around the globe)
Trying to pretend we are better than everyone else at everything is a mugs game.
However, that was not what the doctor was suggesting - suspicion and jealousy of European states were the topics. With tongue firmly in cheek I hope I demolished his argument. Suspicious of France, indeed - the man was blithering.0 -
Doc, you list nice things and I could add to the list (Vinho Verde and chilled white port for a start) but the fact that a country has something nice doesn't mean we should be, let alone are, jealous of it. These are just things to be enjoyed whilst you are there. Jealousy comes only when considering higher matters.foxinsoxuk said:
I am stone cold sober (having a teetotal, vegetarian and generally abstemios November in preparation for the Bachannalia of December).HurstLlama said:Posted this in the last thread because nobody, looking at you TSE, mentioned there was a new one. However it is just as applicable here as there so I shall break a rule and post it again:
Gosh, just catching up and there have been some really good and interesting posts this evening - Mrs. Free leading the charge as usual.
There have also been on or two posts that have fallen below that high standard. In that regard it is with great regret that I have to include this comment from the normally excellent Dr. Sox,
"Britain and Russia are the bookends of Europe. Neither of us feel we entirely belong, and there is both a suspicion and a degree of jelousy about the countries in the middle."
There is no suspicion about France, there is stone-cold hard fact backed by 900 years of evidence. As for jealousy, I fear the good Doctor may have of drink taken and to excess. What, with the possible exception of the German education system, is there to be jealous of in Europe.
The jealousy runs the other way which is of course why most of the continent have been trying to shaft us for the last couple of centuries. The only honourable exceptions being the Portuguese, with whom we are BFF and have been since 1373, and the Cloggies with whom we should be BFF but our politicians are too stupid to capitalise on the great friendship the two peoples have for each other.
Portugal is also a bookend/liminal part of Europe looking outwards rather than inwards, so perhaps should be classed with Britain and Russia (as should perhaps Turkey also).
But I fear you are wrong. From Belgian Beer, to German engineering, to Spanish siestas to the Italian dolce vitae, Greek sunsets, Finnish saunas and the trans-carpathian forests there is much to be jealous of in Europe. Even that curious Danish complacency of hygge.
Good point about Portugal, though, and maybe we should include the Netherlands in the same group. Then that opens another question about us being great mates with countries who have a tradition of looking outwards from Europe and that opens a whole new train of thought that is to much for the time of night.0 -
As I said ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership election pretty much spot on. However this is a poll of Tory members, Tory voters are more split, BMG on Friday had Tory voters 55% to 45% for Leave, with nationally In fractionally ahead 52% to 48%Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BMG-Research-Westminster-Voting-Intentions-and-the-EU-Referendum-Tables-291015.pdf0 -
There is nothing brave about repeating an old accusation which falls within the accepted definition of anti-semitism and which was said in more or less precisely the same terms by another Labour MP about Labour a few years back. What Kaufman also said at the same meeting was that at least half of the allegations that Israelis had been stabbed were fabricated. Given that there is clear evidence of what has happened i.e. of Israelis being attacked, stabbed etc and, incidentally, of Palestinians also being attacked, why does Kaufman come up with bizarre statements about fabrications?surbiton said:
Even if one disagrees with Kaufman's language, is he factually incorrect ? He should know. As you say he is Jewish himself.NickPalmer said:ConservativeHome is probably a good barometer for grass-roots right-wingers. It's not clear that they speak for anyone else.
Meanwhile, perhaps of interest for those who've suspected Corbyn of anti-semitism:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/03/gerald-kaufmans-jewish-money-condemned-jeremy-corbyn
Kaufman is Jewish himself and a member of the left-wing Jewish campaign group Paole Zion, but very pro-Palestinian (he's also incidentally the Father of the House).
Personally, I would not use the expression "Jew" or "Jewish" myself. It is the Israeli government which is the occupier. To hold all Jews responsible would be wrong. Israel kills Palestinians and bulldozes their homes in complete violation of any international law. And no one condemns them. For some reason US and UK political parties are scared of them.
In the US, frankly, only Florida is a swing state where Israeli supporters could change the outcome. NY and NJ are spoken about. But the Democratic majority is greater than the Jewish vote even if all were to vote for the Republicans which they would not. Most Jews in the US are progressive people. In Britain, electorally, the Israeli supporters are hardly important.
Many in the media , however, do have connections with Israel. Kaufman to his credit has spoken out despite his own connections with the community. Money also talks.
Brave man !
Cui Bono? Well, maybe his audience was a clue. The rising levels of anti-semitism in Europe and the complexities and sensitivities of the Israeli-Palestinian issue are such that even a pompous old booby like Kaufman should think more carefully before indulging in crude conspiracy theories and insulting sterotypes.
0 -
Indeed, I remember the days when OGH made a point of ridiculing these ConHome polls.Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.0 -
Would you call the Tory MPs who write articles for ConservativeHome Kippers as well?Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.0 -
Yes, I think the significance of this campaign is going to be greater in shaping the public's view of Corbyn and his increasingly sinister henchmen, than in the by-election itself.MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence
...
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
...
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Of course the reality of how massively out of touch Corbyn is with the values of decent Britons was always going to come out in the end, but UKIP in Oldham are extremely well placed to act as a catalyst in speeding up the process.0 -
I think it could be quite a nasty little by election. I would like to think I am wrong.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, I think the significance of this campaign is going to be greater in shaping the public's view of Corbyn and his increasingly sinister henchmen, than in the by-election itself.MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence
...
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
...
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Of course the reality of how massively out of touch Corbyn is with the values of decent Britons was always going to come out in the end, but UKIP in Oldham are extremely well placed to act as a catalyst in speeding up the process.0 -
Good points as usual, Mr. N. That last phrase sticks in the craw a bit though. I can't quite put my finger on why but something along the lines of UKIP doing the work the Conservatives want done but can't bring themselves to do keeps popping into my head.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, I think the significance of this campaign is going to be greater in shaping the public's view of Corbyn and his increasingly sinister henchmen, than in the by-election itself.MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence
...
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
...
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Of course the reality of how massively out of touch Corbyn is with the values of decent Britons was always going to come out in the end, but UKIP in Oldham are extremely well placed to act as a catalyst in speeding up the process.0 -
Regular readers might be a bit surprised to hear that I've actually got quite a lot of time for Tim Montgomerie, although his political positioning is rather different from mine. I think he writes some very interesting stuff, and he also is one of the very few commentators who, in one well-argued article, has significantly changed my view on a major issue.
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.0 -
It will be interesting to see what sort of campaign the Tories go for. Both the Tories and UKIP attacking Corbyn's lack of patriotism and worrying associations could be quite effective.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, I think the significance of this campaign is going to be greater in shaping the public's view of Corbyn and his increasingly sinister henchmen, than in the by-election itself.MP_SE said:Lack of patriotism, IRA sympathiser and refusal to sing the national anthem all mentioned in one sentence
...
In that one sentence there is something for everyone... to hate about Corbyn.
...
Decent media coverage could be quite damaging to Labour nationally and not just in Oldham.
Of course the reality of how massively out of touch Corbyn is with the values of decent Britons was always going to come out in the end, but UKIP in Oldham are extremely well placed to act as a catalyst in speeding up the process.0 -
Is this an Ashcroft Poll? Does not Ashcroft nor run ConHome? Does Ashcroft not hate Cameron? Montgomerie likewise? On the scale of the BBC being bought by the EU, then how trustworthy is this poll?HisEminence said:
Indeed, I remember the days when OGH made a point of ridiculing these ConHome polls.Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.0 -
It's not so much that the Conservatives don't want to do it themselves, it's the different audience - Labour (or ex/potential Labour) voters, who will be more receptive to a UKIP message, especially from someone like John Bickley, than they would be to a Conservative message.HurstLlama said:I can't quite put my finger on why but something along the lines of UKIP doing the work the Conservatives want done but can't bring themselves to do keeps popping into my head.
0 -
If the Tory party only listened to Tory members rather than potential Tory voters then it would be as far from govt as the GOP are without a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.HYUFD said:
As I said ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership election pretty much spot on. However this is a poll of Tory members, Tory voters are more split, BMG on Friday had Tory voters 55% to 45% for Leave, with nationally In fractionally ahead 52% to 48%Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BMG-Research-Westminster-Voting-Intentions-and-the-EU-Referendum-Tables-291015.pdf0 -
The police are upset at being filmed on smartphone when they get put of their cars, so are not getting out of their cars. It's alleged violent crime is therefor up. Is it? Obama denies it, but he would I suppose.Tim_B said:Not too sure what to make of this -
FBI Director Comey made a speech the other day saying that the increase in the crime rate is because politicians are not supporting the police. The White House immediately came out and denied it. Director Comey then made another speech a day or so later saying the same thing again.
The talking heads on both CNN and Fox News opined that this was a sign that the FBI was fed up with political interference and was thus a threat to Hillary Clinton in her email scandal.
They must know something.
I further suppose that if American police beat up fewer black people when they got out of their cars then they would not be filmed so much.
I quite admire the general run of US policeman, but the reasons for the mistrust they are held in must be pretty clear to us all.
I think this may have something to do with the FBI's actions.0 -
Indeed, of course some present Tory voters will have voted for Blair, unlike Tory membersflightpath01 said:
If the Tory party only listened to Tory members rather than potential Tory voters then it would be as far from govt as the GOP are without a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.HYUFD said:
As I said ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership election pretty much spot on. However this is a poll of Tory members, Tory voters are more split, BMG on Friday had Tory voters 55% to 45% for Leave, with nationally In fractionally ahead 52% to 48%Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BMG-Research-Westminster-Voting-Intentions-and-the-EU-Referendum-Tables-291015.pdf0 -
Farage is peddling himself and setting himself up for his future career by doing LBC talk shows. He will be running companies set up with Ashcroft next.TheScreamingEagles said:
Farage's blunder last week about using the referendum to topple Dave will also help Tory unity.Anorak said:
Indeed. The frothing and headbanging wing has been exported to Nigel's demesne. I'm not convinced the conviviality will last, but it's better than I'd feared for now.Casino_Royale said:
The good news is the discussion is fairly amicable. The message to Cameron is to tread carefully. The message to future Tory leaders is don't think it's over after the vote.Richard_Tyndall said:
The problem is that I also get invited to take these surveys and the only thing stopping me from claiming to be a Tory party member as far as I can tell is my own desire not to mislead. My wife used to be a party member and would take these polls as well and I have seen no evidence of any verification of who is a party member and who is not.Casino_Royale said:FWIW, I replied to this survey (as a Tory party member) and, funnily enough, replied "Leave".
Should I create a badge saying I'm 'one of the 540'?
Fronting himself and his name like this is quite clever from his point of view. It at least shows he has been watching Trumps career.0 -
Montie is pro anything that is anti the Tory party. He is a ratbag of the highest order and thick as two short planks with it.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I believe Montie is equally anti-tax credit changess, so is presumably a new favourite pundit for pb threads...SimonStClare said:Evening all.
Wasn’t this poll mentioned the other day on PB and is based on a ConHome vox populi?
If so, it’s utterly worthless.0 -
I couldn't judge on that, not knowing which ones are regular contributors, but there seem plenty of Tory MPs who would be kippers if they had the balls to take the risk.MP_SE said:
Would you call the Tory MPs who write articles for ConservativeHome Kippers as well?Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.
Hood night all.0 -
Some, no doubt. Some will have voted for Clegg.HYUFD said:
Indeed, of course some present Tory voters will have voted for Blair, unlike Tory membersflightpath01 said:
If the Tory party only listened to Tory members rather than potential Tory voters then it would be as far from govt as the GOP are without a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.HYUFD said:
As I said ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership election pretty much spot on. However this is a poll of Tory members, Tory voters are more split, BMG on Friday had Tory voters 55% to 45% for Leave, with nationally In fractionally ahead 52% to 48%Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BMG-Research-Westminster-Voting-Intentions-and-the-EU-Referendum-Tables-291015.pdf0 -
Hug a Hoodie!kle4 said:
Hood night all.0 -
Did you hear about the Psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?Richard_Nabavi said:
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.
He became a Voodoo Pole!0 -
A few in 2010, not many in 2015flightpath01 said:
Some, no doubt. Some will have voted for Clegg.HYUFD said:
Indeed, of course some present Tory voters will have voted for Blair, unlike Tory membersflightpath01 said:
If the Tory party only listened to Tory members rather than potential Tory voters then it would be as far from govt as the GOP are without a Bush or Nixon on the ticket.HYUFD said:
As I said ConHome got the 2005 Tory leadership election pretty much spot on. However this is a poll of Tory members, Tory voters are more split, BMG on Friday had Tory voters 55% to 45% for Leave, with nationally In fractionally ahead 52% to 48%Philip_Thompson said:I'm a party member and don't go to ukiphome, why would I? How is this voodoo poll at all relevant and why isn't it being flagged as a voodoo poll in the Opening Post?
OGH normally does give warnings about voodoo polls.
http://www.bmgresearch.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/BMG-Research-Westminster-Voting-Intentions-and-the-EU-Referendum-Tables-291015.pdf0 -
What was the issue he changed your mind on? (IYDMMA)Richard_Nabavi said:Regular readers might be a bit surprised to hear that I've actually got quite a lot of time for Tim Montgomerie, although his political positioning is rather different from mine. I think he writes some very interesting stuff, and he also is one of the very few commentators who, in one well-argued article, has significantly changed my view on a major issue.
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.0 -
Why would the next leader come from the winning side? That will be the view of the voters. The Leader will be chosen by members. Members polls have consistently been pro leaving the EC.Richard_Nabavi said:
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.0 -
"The government may be forced to delay the EU referendum until 2017 if it loses a parliamentary vote on the electoral franchise later this month.
David Cameron has said the in-out vote will take place by the end of 2017 but is thought to prefer a date in 2016.
But the Electoral Commission told the BBC if 16 and 17 year-olds are given the vote, the poll should be delayed by as much as 12 months to register them."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-347087420 -
Votes for 16/17 year olds? A policy rejected at the ballot box. Let's hope the modification to the franchise gets removed at the Commons stage.AndyJS said:"The government may be forced to delay the EU referendum until 2017 if it loses a parliamentary vote on the electoral franchise later this month.
David Cameron has said the in-out vote will take place by the end of 2017 but is thought to prefer a date in 2016.
But the Electoral Commission told the BBC if 16 and 17 year-olds are given the vote, the poll should be delayed by as much as 12 months to register them."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-347087420 -
Oh gawd! Made me chuckle.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did you hear about the Psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?Richard_Nabavi said:
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.
He became a Voodoo Pole!0 -
Don't mind me, I'm just keeping the PB server ticking.0
-
Just so long as he didn't become Roman PolanskiRobD said:
Oh gawd! Made me chuckle.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Did you hear about the Psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?Richard_Nabavi said:
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.
He became a Voodoo Pole!0 -
Here is an article in that well-known lefty NYT on the increase in the murder rate this year:flightpath01 said:
The police are upset at being filmed on smartphone when they get put of their cars, so are not getting out of their cars. It's alleged violent crime is therefor up. Is it? Obama denies it, but he would I suppose.Tim_B said:Not too sure what to make of this -
FBI Director Comey made a speech the other day saying that the increase in the crime rate is because politicians are not supporting the police. The White House immediately came out and denied it. Director Comey then made another speech a day or so later saying the same thing again.
The talking heads on both CNN and Fox News opined that this was a sign that the FBI was fed up with political interference and was thus a threat to Hillary Clinton in her email scandal.
They must know something.
I further suppose that if American police beat up fewer black people when they got out of their cars then they would not be filmed so much.
I quite admire the general run of US policeman, but the reasons for the mistrust they are held in must be pretty clear to us all.
I think this may have something to do with the FBI's actions.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/01/us/murder-rates-rising-sharply-in-many-us-cities.html?_r=0
Your depiction of it just being police beating up too many black people is extraordinarily simplistic. While there have been some dreadful instances of excessive use of force, there is a long history of why the police go into certain neighborhoods scared and hence heavy. The more they are required to be timid about how they go in, the more of them will get killed. So their other option is not to go in to those neighborhoods. There have been lots of local stories noting that the police are now virtually absent in certain neighborhoods after the riots.
I say this as someone who is highly critical of the over-militarization of the police forces. But there are some truly scary places in US inner cities.0 -
It is utterly wrong to change the age limit just for one referendum. It feels like it is trying to gerrymander the electorate to get the result the government wants. If you're too young to drive, to be out of school or to fight in a war, then you're too young to decide on the future of the country.AndyJS said:"The government may be forced to delay the EU referendum until 2017 if it loses a parliamentary vote on the electoral franchise later this month.
David Cameron has said the in-out vote will take place by the end of 2017 but is thought to prefer a date in 2016.
But the Electoral Commission told the BBC if 16 and 17 year-olds are given the vote, the poll should be delayed by as much as 12 months to register them."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-347087420 -
Quite. It's like saying the unionists would win the election in Scotland because they won the referendum.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Why would the next leader come from the winning side? That will be the view of the voters. The Leader will be chosen by members. Members polls have consistently been pro leaving the EC.Richard_Nabavi said:
On the specific point of this latest tweet, however - even ignoring the consideration that the poll is so voodoo that it could bring Papa Doc back from the dead - isn't there a bit of a logical faux pas? The referendum comes first. The leadership election comes second. The next leader will be someone on the winning side of the referendum, not the winning side amongst party members.0 -
Is this poll really that of party members as described or just of those registeded to Montgomeries site..??? I unsubscribed from his site at least 5 yrs ago as it wasn't what I considered as representative of Conservative views.
0