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Aren't the Russians and Israelis deconflicting? I thought that I read that they were. It is a strange war, where all the outside powers are attacking everyone else's proxies and being allowed to do so without interference from the other sponsors.Y0kel said:The problem with student politics is that some of them go straight into proper politics without doing much else or changing one bit.
Notable that the Israelis have clearly decided that their security zone regarding Syria isn't just around and about the Golan. They've reportedly bombed missile stores to the North of Damascus this evening.
Wondering where the mighty Russian airpower was.0 -
That may be so. All the more reason to Avoid.GeoffM said:That was probably his worst answer. She's gorgeous.
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Now that's a more interesting question. It was abolished in 2002 along with all other British Overseas Territories.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Daft? Yes or no will do.
BTW do they have the death penalty on The Rock? (aside from events there in 1988, natch)
Gibraltar's last hanging for murder was of Ernest Opisso on 3 July 1931. He was executed for the murder of his employer in the flat above her shop where they both worked.
Two Spaniards from La Línea recruited by the German intelligence service, the Abwehr, Luis López Cordón Cuenca (23) and José Martín Muñoz (19), were hanged on 11 January 1944. The hangings were carried out by Albert Pierrepoint, who had travelled undercover to Gibraltar to carry out the executions.
The last sentence of death in Gib was passed and commuted in 1952.0 -
You know exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
The whole IRA cobblers just turned me right off. I've no idea what point you're making most of the time anymore. You're such a clever guy too.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!Plato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?0 -
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
The whole IRA cobblers just turned me right off. I've no idea what point you're making most of the time anymore. You're such a clever guy too.Sunil_Prasannan said:
I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!Plato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
I'm sorry to hear your story Geoff but by and large the state does protect us from guns. The number of gun deaths in the UK is only 40 or so IIRC. Maybe less. Comparing it to zero isn't really fair, you should be comparing to how many gun deaths we'd have anyway.GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?0 -
Out of interest, do you happen to know which parliament has the largest 2nd chamber?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Change what record? I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!Plato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
Bonus points if you have a graph!
Sorry, @Plato_Says, couldn't resist0 -
You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.0 -
Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/6609462295520952320 -
Gibraltar is just *so* cute and tiny - an assembly of just 17 members plus a speakerGeoffM said:
Out of interest, do you happen to know which parliament has the largest 2nd chamber?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Change what record? I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!Plato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
Bonus points if you have a graph!
Sorry, @Plato_Says, couldn't resist 0 -
Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
GeoffM said:
Out of interest, do you happen to know which parliament has the largest 2nd chamber?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Change what record? I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!Plato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
Bonus points if you have a graph!
Sorry, @Plato_Says, couldn't resist0 -
It has a fine football club with fine supporters including myself and Mr Yvette Cooper.antifrank said:
Norwich is A Fine City.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".
Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.0 -
A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.Plato_Says said:Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.
AndyJS said:
Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?
Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.0 -
Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.0 -
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.isam said:Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/6609462295520952320 -
I think that there are certain criminals who being sent out of this world would leave it a better place. I was disgusted when the Soham murderer tried to commit suicide and the prison authorities stopped him. However society is very different now than it was in the early sixties, when the last two were hanged.Plato_Says said:Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.
AndyJS said:
Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
Leave aside the possibility of an innocent person being hanged. Forget for a moment the dreadful media circus that would attend every capital case. Just think about how today's public would react to the lottery of death. When we had the death penalty only some, a minority, sentenced to die actually went to the gallows. Why some and not others was never disclosed and it certainly had no connection to the severity, if that is the right word, of the murder they committed. Sid Darnley, an assistant hangman in the 1950s, suggested in his memoirs that they were spread about the country so that each area had one or two a year.
The death penalty belongs to the past; a simpler time, perhaps a better time in many ways but a time gone nontheless.0 -
I would go for Gib to keep our GeoffM happyTim_B said:
Why not Whitby? After all Dracula came ashore there.Danny565 said:Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
0 -
I think the appeal procedure is daft - if there's huge DNA evidence and other circumstantial stuff - just zap them.
Sticking someone on Death Row and not carrying it out is just torture for everyone.Tim_B said:
A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.Plato_Says said:Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.
AndyJS said:
Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?
Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.0 -
Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".
Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.0 -
I reckon it is part of a wider strategy that paints REMAIN as in the pocket of corporate self interest...Carswell is big on thisRichard_Tyndall said:
Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.isam said:Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/6609462295520952320 -
Always worth reading PPRUNE when there's a plane mystery:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/569907-breaking-news-airliner-missing-within-egyptian-fir-17.html0 -
I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.
I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever insteadSunil_Prasannan said:
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
I was talking about the ability for someone to defend themselves from overwhelming force and I shouldn't have muddied the waters by specifically referring to being able to carry a gun for self-defence. I should have been more vague. A taser, mace, insert anything in there instead.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm sorry to hear your story Geoff but by and large the state does protect us from guns. The number of gun deaths in the UK is only 40 or so IIRC. Maybe less. Comparing it to zero isn't really fair, you should be comparing to how many gun deaths we'd have anyway.GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
The crux of my point was that there was no deterrence before the event or equal retribution afterwards. My point should have been clearer that in the absence of being allowed to defend oneself the State promises to do that for you. When they fail to do that, you'd think they would at least hang the bastard concerned to cover up their failure.
Anyway, with apologies, enough on this. I shouldn't have bitten.0 -
I spent far too many hours of my life reading that forum after the Malaysian Airlines disappearance.AndyJS said:Always worth reading PPRUNE when there's a plane mystery:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/569907-breaking-news-airliner-missing-within-egyptian-fir-17.html0 -
And DNA testing is by no means bullet proof. The theory of course is sound under lab conditions but the actual practice, the use of partial or mixed DNA matches without explaining this to Juries and a considerable number of points in the system where errors can occur mean that DNA evidence is certainly not as conclusive as people like to believe.Tim_B said:
A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.Plato_Says said:Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.
AndyJS said:
Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?
Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.0 -
Yep I can see that. The thing is to make sure they are not seen to be behaving in a petty manner though.isam said:
I reckon it is part of a wider strategy that paints REMAIN as in the pocket of corporate self interest...Carswell is big on thisRichard_Tyndall said:
Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.isam said:Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/6609462295520952320 -
Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about NorwichPlato_Says said:
I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.
I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever insteadSunil_Prasannan said:
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.Danny565 said:Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP0 -
It is easy to list hypothetical like this, and if the ONLY change was to make guns available to the law and law abiding citizens then it would be a good move. However giving guns to citizens raises the criminals risk of encountering a gun, and thus makes them MUCH more likely to also want to carry a gun, and use it in case someone else does so first. It just causes escalation of arms really. It's the unintended consequences that need to be considered.TheWhiteRabbit said:
I'm sorry to hear your story Geoff but by and large the state does protect us from guns. The number of gun deaths in the UK is only 40 or so IIRC. Maybe less. Comparing it to zero isn't really fair, you should be comparing to how many gun deaths we'd have anyway.GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.Plato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.
The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?0 -
It's this mans hometownTim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Plato_Says said:I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.
I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever insteadSunil_Prasannan said:
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx
http://youtu.be/BLLlkP2uNpA0 -
I worked there and hated the whole culture. It gave me a headache.
That was a first.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Plato_Says said:snip
I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever insteadSunil_Prasannan said:
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
How would the Spaniards react if that actually happened?GeoffM said:
We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.Danny565 said:Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP0 -
Devonport? It could certainly deal with the submarines without any problem though new facilities would have to be built for the missile end of the business but that is true wherever you move to.Danny565 said:Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
Of course there would be a lot of screaming and shouting from the usual suspects but nuclear weapons have been stored down there before and there is not a lot of fuss about such things in Berkshire where they are actually made.0 -
Re DNA evidence....If I was going to comit a murder I would do it in a hairdressers. 0
-
I'm more interested about that pirate radio story, looking at it most young people in London listen to pirate radio stations.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.isam said:Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232
There are only 16 licensed radio stations (4 of them are BBC ones) on FM in London when the FM band can hold 41 stations, so obviously regulations are withholding supply so a black market of sorts has appeared on broadcasting.
I can't understand why Britain (and most of europe) is always so restrictive on the number of TV and radio stations, before Freeview you only had 5 TV channels and only one of them private when the UHF band could hold 48.0 -
Answer the question, dammit. Prior to tonight, when did I last discuss the death penalty on PB? If you can't answer, just say so.Plato_Says said:I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.
I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever insteadSunil_Prasannan said:
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.
You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?
Yes - 42%
No - 42%
Don't Know - 16
YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party
UKIP - 73%
CON - 54%
LAB - 35%
LD - 35%
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
BTW I love you too! xx0 -
*claps*
After hundreds of hours of CSI TV - If I can't commit a very tricky murder, well I'd be a crap student.Moses_ said:Re DNA evidence....If I was going to comit a murder I would do it in a hairdressers.
0 -
Probably not novel but for me interesting. It was said that Norwich has a church for every week of the year and a pub for every day of the year.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Also every 4 years I have to go there to be burned and drowned. My next excursion there is next spring.0 -
One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!flightpath01 said:
Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".
Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.0 -
I was heavily involved in that issue as an MP because the animal welfare lobby is keen to limit the period as so many animals get scared by constant bangs. We gradually whittled it down, as Ydoethur says, and I'm sorry to hear it's widened again. The whoile fashion really took off over the millennium.ydoethur said:
That might indeed explain it. Still very annoying.
I think after last year's tragic events the illegal trade might be a bit subdued this year. Although come to think of it, that might be why it was a bit quieter last year.
0 -
They probably are trying to cast doubt on any further poll rather than taint this oneRichard_Tyndall said:
Yep I can see that. The thing is to make sure they are not seen to be behaving in a petty manner though.isam said:
I reckon it is part of a wider strategy that paints REMAIN as in the pocket of corporate self interest...Carswell is big on thisRichard_Tyndall said:
Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.isam said:Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/6609462295520952320 -
Quiet! All of you!
"Tremors" is on ITV4 right now 0 -
Bullet proof was probably a poor choice of words. DNA is the most reliable evidence, but as you say it's by no means 100% in practice.Richard_Tyndall said:
And DNA testing is by no means bullet proof. The theory of course is sound under lab conditions but the actual practice, the use of partial or mixed DNA matches without explaining this to Juries and a considerable number of points in the system where errors can occur mean that DNA evidence is certainly not as conclusive as people like to believe.Tim_B said:
A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.Plato_Says said:Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.
AndyJS said:
Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:GeoffM said:Plato_Says said:
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?
Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.0 -
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).0 -
The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]
Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]
The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]MarqueeMark said:
One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!flightpath01 said:
Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".
Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.0 -
That's not remotely interesting - except in Norwich.isam said:
It's this mans hometownTim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Plato_Says said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?Plato_Says said:Sunil_Prasannan said:
Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.Plato_Says said:You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.
snipSunil_Prasannan said:
snipPlato_Says said:I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.
GeoffM said:
I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_BSunil_Prasannan said:
Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?GeoffM said:
Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.Tim_B said:
I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.GeoffM said:
I genuinely like the pairing ideaRichard_Tyndall said:
Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)GeoffM said:
snipPlato_Says said:
It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
BTW I love you too! xx
http://youtu.be/BLLlkP2uNpA0 -
Norwich was also where the first blood libel of the Jews occured in Britain. In England in 1144 Jews of Norwich were accused of ritual murder after a boy, William of Norwich, was found dead with stab wounds in the woods.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).0 -
The window has not widened.NickPalmer said:
I was heavily involved in that issue as an MP because the animal welfare lobby is keen to limit the period as so many animals get scared by constant bangs. We gradually whittled it down, as Ydoethur says, and I'm sorry to hear it's widened again. The whoile fashion really took off over the millennium.ydoethur said:
That might indeed explain it. Still very annoying.
I think after last year's tragic events the illegal trade might be a bit subdued this year. Although come to think of it, that might be why it was a bit quieter last year.0 -
One of my favourite songsPlato_Says said:The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]
Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]
The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]
"And girl it looks so pretty to me like it always did
Like the Spanish City to me when we were kids"0 -
That must be why they don't wear sandals.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?0 -
Very true, Mr. Mark, but I was trying to stay away from the Jewish angle. You know how some people on here can go off on one if the word is mentioned.MarqueeMark said:
Norwich was also where the first blood libel of the Jews occured in Britain. In England in 1144 Jews of Norwich were accused of ritual murder after a boy, William of Norwich, was found dead with stab wounds in the woods.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).0 -
Looking at the pictures from there I can conclude that the tail broke off.AndyJS said:Always worth reading PPRUNE when there's a plane mystery:
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/569907-breaking-news-airliner-missing-within-egyptian-fir-17.html
Particularly on page 14 of that website I can see a large aerial picture of the crash site, it's clear that there are 2 main debris fields that are not much larger that 200 ft in diameter, one containing the tail section and one containing the rest of the plane.0 -
My first *our song* was Romeo and Juliet from that album, the second was Carry On Wayward Son by Kansas.
Many mock Dire Straits but IMO they were great back then.Richard_Tyndall said:
One of my favourite songsPlato_Says said:The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]
Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]
The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]
"And girl it looks so pretty to me like it always did
Like the Spanish City to me when we were kids"0 -
Plato_Says said:
The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]
Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]
The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]MarqueeMark said:
One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!flightpath01 said:
Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:
I remember it as a kid when we'd go to Redcar on vacation. I was born near Blackpool and was shocked to read a recent article as to how far it has declined.
Like the Dire Straits song but hadn't made the connection.0 -
Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".Tim_B said:
That must be why they don't wear sandals.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
My apologies.0 -
Do we know how many toes SeanT has?HurstLlama said:
Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".Tim_B said:
That must be why they don't wear sandals.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
My apologies.
0 -
When some Dire Straits bloke bought Otham Court stately home up the lane from me I was WTF!?
I was 350 mile away emotional teenager and it felt so local.
I remember it as a kid when we'd go to Redcar on vacation. I was born near Blackpool and was shocked to read a recent article as to how far it has declined.Tim_B said:Plato_Says said:The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]
Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]
The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]MarqueeMark said:
One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!flightpath01 said:
Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:
Like the Dire Straits song but hadn't made the connection.
0 -
Plato_Says said:
When some Dire Straits bloke bought Otham Court stately home up the lane from me I was WTF!?
I was 350 mile away emotional teenager and it felt so local.
I remember it as a kid when we'd go to Redcar on vacation. I was born near Blackpool and was shocked to read a recent article as to how far it has declined.Tim_B said:Plato_Says said:The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
snip
MarqueeMark said:
One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!flightpath01 said:
Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.MarqueeMark said:
And several decades.Tim_B said:
I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.MP_SE said:
The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.FrancisUrquhart said:
The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)GeoffM said:
Like the Dire Straits song but hadn't made the connection.
I just read the Wiki article, and as a teenager went to both Palisades and Rockaways. I remember Cullercoats on the train too. I have the Dire Straits Greatest Hits on my iPod and must have played that song many times and have never picked up on any of it!0 -
Ah, but SeanT's dirty little secret* is that he was actually born in Devon. Not a Cornishman at all. Don't know about the toe count though.Tim_B said:
Do we know how many toes SeanT has?HurstLlama said:
Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".Tim_B said:
That must be why they don't wear sandals.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
My apologies.
* Well its not actually a secret, being as how he confessed to the fact on this very web site.0 -
It's about as secret as the tourist signs in Essex pointing you to "Secret government nuclear bunker" then?HurstLlama said:
Ah, but SeanT's dirty little secret* is that he was actually born in Devon. Not a Cornishman at all. Don't know about the toe count though.Tim_B said:
Do we know how many toes SeanT has?HurstLlama said:
Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".Tim_B said:
That must be why they don't wear sandals.HurstLlama said:
Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.Tim_B said:Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich
Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
My apologies.
* Well its not actually a secret, being as how he confessed to the fact on this very web site.0 -
Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:
From VoteUK forum:
Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)0 -
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.0 -
Why have labour gone from 2/9 to 1/10?AndyJS said:Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:
From VoteUK forum:
Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)0 -
Great plan, move them to a wide open berth on the edge of IS territory.GeoffM said:
We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.Danny565 said:Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP0 -
Tremors is on of those very fine films where the positive approval of the film has been undermined and indeed destroyed by years of utterly woeful sequels. From Dusk to Dawn has much the same problem (although I've heard positive things about the new Robert Rodriguez TV show).Sunil_Prasannan said:Quiet! All of you!
"Tremors" is on ITV4 right now0 -
No Karie Murphy? So disappointing.AndyJS said:Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:
From VoteUK forum:
Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)0 -
I didn't know Bradford had a sea port.Dair said:
Great plan, move them to a wide open berth on the edge of IS territory.GeoffM said:
We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.Danny565 said:Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?
I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP0 -
Actually if you had looked earlier you would have seen that Tim_B is a strong opponent of the Death Penalty so your assumption is completely wrong.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.0 -
For the sh*ts and giggles?Dair said:
No Karie Murphy? So disappointing.AndyJS said:Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:
From VoteUK forum:
Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)0 -
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.0 -
Actually he's against it, you dull fuckwit.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
[snip other bollocks].
0 -
Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.Tim_B said:
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.0 -
I don't know. Which betting company?isam said:
Why have labour gone from 2/9 to 1/10?AndyJS said:Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:
From VoteUK forum:
Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)0 -
I'll regard that as your interview for the open position of my attack dog.GeoffM said:
Actually he's against it, you dull fuckwit.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
[snip other bollocks].
You're hired!0 -
It may not be of any importance but an interesting thing I noticed about Oldham West & Royton is that according to UKPR it was 55% Christian at the time of the 2011 census which is only 4 points lower than the England-wide figure of 59% despite having a pretty high Asian/Muslim population.0
-
You've just provided more solid identifiable evidence (if more were needed) that you have the mental sharpness of a well used riot shield.Dair said:
Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.Tim_B said:
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
Drop it and wriggle back under your stone.0 -
They're the current best prices and last weeksAndyJS said:
I don't know. Which betting company?isam said:
Why have labour gone from 2/9 to 1/10?AndyJS said:Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:
From VoteUK forum:
Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)
Farage is on LBC at the mo presenting a chat show as we type.. How odd!
0 -
There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.Dair said:
Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.Tim_B said:
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.0 -
Not sure... I can be persuaded. I have no opposition intellectually to the principle of people receiving the death penalty for murder (possibly also high treason), my objection is a technocratic one, the obvious risk of miscarriages of justice.Tim_B said:
There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.Dair said:
Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.Tim_B said:
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.0 -
Lol this is quite chortle inducing.
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/01/nicola-sturgeon-scotlands-most-popular-person/0 -
I've never seen any argument from pro-death penalty people that made any logical sense and stood up to the lightest scrutiny.Tim_B said:
There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.Dair said:
Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.Tim_B said:
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.
Your second paragraph is a different point to the one you made earlier. Yes, most people are probably unpersuadable one way or the other. I wouldn't say it will be 100% but it will be the vast bulk.0 -
Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/0 -
You get to do this one on your own. I started pro and went anti.notme said:
Not sure... I can be persuaded. I have no opposition intellectually to the principle of people receiving the death penalty for murder (possibly also high treason), my objection is a technocratic one, the obvious risk of miscarriages of justice.Tim_B said:
There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.Dair said:
Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.Tim_B said:
Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.Dair said:
It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.Tim_B said:You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.
I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.
Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,
Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.
It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.0 -
Sad but at least it means no more innumerable commercials for AIG reverse mortgages.HYUFD said:Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/
He was Republican minority counsel at the Watergate hearings.0 -
This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html0 -
It might be bizarre but - it's not unusualAndyJS said:This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html 0 -
Yes, I believe he was a lawyer too before he was an actor and politician. Of course it is all hypothetical now but had he won the presidency in 2008 and been re-elected he would now have died in officeTim_B said:
Sad but at least it means no more innumerable commercials for AIG reverse mortgages.HYUFD said:Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/
He was Republican minority counsel at the Watergate hearings.0 -
SublimeTim_B said:
It might be bizarre but - it's not unusualAndyJS said:This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html0 -
Maybe he'll release "the blue blue grass of home"Tim_B said:
It might be bizarre but - it's not unusualAndyJS said:This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html0 -
"Kids Company blew tens of thousands on £240-an-hour Harley Street hypnotist who used 'weird' methods to treat young drug addicts"
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298621/Scandal-hit-Kids-Company-spent-tens-thousands-pounds-sending-staff-clients-240-hour-Harley-Street-hypnotherapist.html0 -
Hunt for Red October was on earlier today - on "Dave" of all channelsHYUFD said:Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/ 0 -
Yes indeed I caught the end, I always try to watch it if it is on, a final bow from Fred, nightSunil_Prasannan said:
Hunt for Red October was on earlier today - on "Dave" of all channelsHYUFD said:Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/0 -
In case you don't know, SeanT is currently in Mumbai.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Hunt for Red October was on earlier today - on "Dave" of all channelsHYUFD said:Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/0 -
Why does the stupid Turkish elections website
(a) not show the map properly?
(b) not have a scroll-bar thingy at the bottom of the screen to allow us to move across to see the map properly?
http://www.yenisafak.com/en/secim-2015-kasim/secim-sonuclari0 -
Next president, WIlliam Hill:
Clinton 1.8
Rubio 5
Trump 7.5
http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/y/12/Politics.html0
