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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Which Irish eyes will be smiling in 2016 – a look at next y

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  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Y0kel said:

    The problem with student politics is that some of them go straight into proper politics without doing much else or changing one bit.

    Notable that the Israelis have clearly decided that their security zone regarding Syria isn't just around and about the Golan. They've reportedly bombed missile stores to the North of Damascus this evening.

    Wondering where the mighty Russian airpower was.

    Aren't the Russians and Israelis deconflicting? I thought that I read that they were. It is a strange war, where all the outside powers are attacking everyone else's proxies and being allowed to do so without interference from the other sponsors.
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    That was probably his worst answer. She's gorgeous.

    That may be so. All the more reason to Avoid.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    edited November 2015


    Daft? Yes or no will do.

    BTW do they have the death penalty on The Rock? (aside from events there in 1988, natch)

    Now that's a more interesting question. It was abolished in 2002 along with all other British Overseas Territories.

    Gibraltar's last hanging for murder was of Ernest Opisso on 3 July 1931. He was executed for the murder of his employer in the flat above her shop where they both worked.

    Two Spaniards from La Línea recruited by the German intelligence service, the Abwehr, Luis López Cordón Cuenca (23) and José Martín Muñoz (19), were hanged on 11 January 1944. The hangings were carried out by Albert Pierrepoint, who had travelled undercover to Gibraltar to carry out the executions.

    The last sentence of death in Gib was passed and commuted in 1952.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    You know exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    The whole IRA cobblers just turned me right off. I've no idea what point you're making most of the time anymore. You're such a clever guy too.

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!
  • Options

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    The whole IRA cobblers just turned me right off. I've no idea what point you're making most of the time anymore. You're such a clever guy too.

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    I'm sorry to hear your story Geoff but by and large the state does protect us from guns. The number of gun deaths in the UK is only 40 or so IIRC. Maybe less. Comparing it to zero isn't really fair, you should be comparing to how many gun deaths we'd have anyway.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    Change what record? I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!
    Out of interest, do you happen to know which parliament has the largest 2nd chamber?
    Bonus points if you have a graph!

    Sorry, @Plato_Says, couldn't resist
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    Change what record? I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!
    Out of interest, do you happen to know which parliament has the largest 2nd chamber?
    Bonus points if you have a graph!

    Sorry, @Plato_Says, couldn't resist
    Gibraltar is just *so* cute and tiny - an assembly of just 17 members plus a speaker :)
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :trollface:
    GeoffM said:

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    Change what record? I believe I haven't defined my position on State Murd..., um, I mean the death penalty on PB before!
    Out of interest, do you happen to know which parliament has the largest 2nd chamber?
    Bonus points if you have a graph!

    Sorry, @Plato_Says, couldn't resist
  • Options
    antifrank said:

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".

    Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Norwich is A Fine City.
    It has a fine football club with fine supporters including myself and Mr Yvette Cooper.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.

    AndyJS said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.

    Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
    Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.
    A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.

    The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?

    Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.
  • Options

    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    Why not Whitby? After all Dracula came ashore there.
  • Options
    isam said:

    Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232

    Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.

    AndyJS said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.

    Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
    Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.
    I think that there are certain criminals who being sent out of this world would leave it a better place. I was disgusted when the Soham murderer tried to commit suicide and the prison authorities stopped him. However society is very different now than it was in the early sixties, when the last two were hanged.

    Leave aside the possibility of an innocent person being hanged. Forget for a moment the dreadful media circus that would attend every capital case. Just think about how today's public would react to the lottery of death. When we had the death penalty only some, a minority, sentenced to die actually went to the gallows. Why some and not others was never disclosed and it certainly had no connection to the severity, if that is the right word, of the murder they committed. Sid Darnley, an assistant hangman in the 1950s, suggested in his memoirs that they were spread about the country so that each area had one or two a year.

    The death penalty belongs to the past; a simpler time, perhaps a better time in many ways but a time gone nontheless.
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    Why not Whitby? After all Dracula came ashore there.
    I would go for Gib to keep our GeoffM happy :lol:
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I think the appeal procedure is daft - if there's huge DNA evidence and other circumstantial stuff - just zap them.

    Sticking someone on Death Row and not carrying it out is just torture for everyone.
    Tim_B said:

    Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.

    AndyJS said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.

    Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
    Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.
    A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.

    The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?

    Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.
  • Options

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".

    Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059

    isam said:

    Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232

    Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.
    I reckon it is part of a wider strategy that paints REMAIN as in the pocket of corporate self interest...Carswell is big on this
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.

    I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever instead

    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    AndyJS said:
    I spent far too many hours of my life reading that forum after the Malaysian Airlines disappearance.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    I'm sorry to hear your story Geoff but by and large the state does protect us from guns. The number of gun deaths in the UK is only 40 or so IIRC. Maybe less. Comparing it to zero isn't really fair, you should be comparing to how many gun deaths we'd have anyway.
    I was talking about the ability for someone to defend themselves from overwhelming force and I shouldn't have muddied the waters by specifically referring to being able to carry a gun for self-defence. I should have been more vague. A taser, mace, insert anything in there instead.

    The crux of my point was that there was no deterrence before the event or equal retribution afterwards. My point should have been clearer that in the absence of being allowed to defend oneself the State promises to do that for you. When they fail to do that, you'd think they would at least hang the bastard concerned to cover up their failure.

    Anyway, with apologies, enough on this. I shouldn't have bitten.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    edited November 2015
    Tim_B said:

    Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.

    AndyJS said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.

    Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
    Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.
    A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.

    The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?

    Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.
    And DNA testing is by no means bullet proof. The theory of course is sound under lab conditions but the actual practice, the use of partial or mixed DNA matches without explaining this to Juries and a considerable number of points in the system where errors can occur mean that DNA evidence is certainly not as conclusive as people like to believe.
  • Options
    isam said:

    isam said:

    Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232

    Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.
    I reckon it is part of a wider strategy that paints REMAIN as in the pocket of corporate self interest...Carswell is big on this
    Yep I can see that. The thing is to make sure they are not seen to be behaving in a petty manner though.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.

    I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever instead

    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.

    www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP
  • Options

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    I didn't get that YouGov, so they lost one pro-death penalty vote there.
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    For my part, I was very close to someone who suffered in a situation where she might have lived if she'd been allowed to carry a gun for self defence. That shapes my views on gun control and how in areas where guns are criminalised, only criminals carry guns.

    The State refuses to let us defend ourselves. The State says that it will defend us. It cannot and does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    I'm sorry to hear your story Geoff but by and large the state does protect us from guns. The number of gun deaths in the UK is only 40 or so IIRC. Maybe less. Comparing it to zero isn't really fair, you should be comparing to how many gun deaths we'd have anyway.
    It is easy to list hypothetical like this, and if the ONLY change was to make guns available to the law and law abiding citizens then it would be a good move. However giving guns to citizens raises the criminals risk of encountering a gun, and thus makes them MUCH more likely to also want to carry a gun, and use it in case someone else does so first. It just causes escalation of arms really. It's the unintended consequences that need to be considered.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.

    I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever instead

    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
    It's this mans hometown

    http://youtu.be/BLLlkP2uNpA
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I worked there and hated the whole culture. It gave me a headache.

    That was a first.
    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    snip

    I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever instead

    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
  • Options
    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.

    www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP
    How would the Spaniards react if that actually happened?
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    Devonport? It could certainly deal with the submarines without any problem though new facilities would have to be built for the missile end of the business but that is true wherever you move to.

    Of course there would be a lot of screaming and shouting from the usual suspects but nuclear weapons have been stored down there before and there is not a lot of fuss about such things in Berkshire where they are actually made.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Re DNA evidence....If I was going to comit a murder I would do it in a hairdressers. :lol:
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited November 2015

    isam said:

    Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232

    Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.
    I'm more interested about that pirate radio story, looking at it most young people in London listen to pirate radio stations.
    There are only 16 licensed radio stations (4 of them are BBC ones) on FM in London when the FM band can hold 41 stations, so obviously regulations are withholding supply so a black market of sorts has appeared on broadcasting.

    I can't understand why Britain (and most of europe) is always so restrictive on the number of TV and radio stations, before Freeview you only had 5 TV channels and only one of them private when the UHF band could hold 48.
  • Options

    I've ignored most of your last 300 comments for precisely this nit picking boring reason.

    I didn't want to say this, but there you go. Say something interesting, novel or about your mum or whatever instead

    Making trivial pedant points and reposting the same things multiple times isn't interesting.

    You added huge value re killer cucumbers. That was a long time ago. We all talk opinion rubbish as well.

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    YouGov: Do you think it was a good thing the death penalty was abolished in Britain?

    Yes - 42%
    No - 42%
    Don't Know - 16

    YouGov, August 2014: % in favour of re-introducing the death penalty by Party

    UKIP - 73%
    CON - 54%
    LAB - 35%
    LD - 35%

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.

    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
    Answer the question, dammit. Prior to tonight, when did I last discuss the death penalty on PB? If you can't answer, just say so.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    *claps*

    After hundreds of hours of CSI TV - If I can't commit a very tricky murder, well I'd be a crap student.
    Moses_ said:

    Re DNA evidence....If I was going to comit a murder I would do it in a hairdressers. :lol:

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Moses_ said:

    Re DNA evidence....If I was going to comit a murder I would do it in a hairdressers. :lol:

    Herr Kutz' establishment? ;)
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich


    Probably not novel but for me interesting. It was said that Norwich has a church for every week of the year and a pub for every day of the year.

    Also every 4 years I have to go there to be burned and drowned. My next excursion there is next spring.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190
    edited November 2015

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".

    Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.
    One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    ydoethur said:



    That might indeed explain it. Still very annoying.

    I think after last year's tragic events the illegal trade might be a bit subdued this year. Although come to think of it, that might be why it was a bit quieter last year.

    I was heavily involved in that issue as an MP because the animal welfare lobby is keen to limit the period as so many animals get scared by constant bangs. We gradually whittled it down, as Ydoethur says, and I'm sorry to hear it's widened again. The whoile fashion really took off over the millennium.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    Tim_B said:

    Moses_ said:

    Re DNA evidence....If I was going to comit a murder I would do it in a hairdressers. :lol:

    Herr Kutz' establishment? ;)
    Ouch... I think your coats over there
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059

    isam said:

    isam said:

    Polling jiggery pokery from REMAIN claim LEAVE

    https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/660946229552095232

    Hmm. Not sure this will have much mileage. The poll they are questioning was from 2013.
    I reckon it is part of a wider strategy that paints REMAIN as in the pocket of corporate self interest...Carswell is big on this
    Yep I can see that. The thing is to make sure they are not seen to be behaving in a petty manner though.
    They probably are trying to cast doubt on any further poll rather than taint this one
  • Options
    Quiet! All of you!

    "Tremors" is on ITV4 right now :)
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Given the very precise nature of DNA evidence nowadays for certain crimes - I'd have little problem with it.

    AndyJS said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    I've always been anti and would quite happily take the vote away from people who are pro death penalty.

    Is the reason why I could never vote for Priti Patel as Tory leader.
    Let's have a referendum on the death penalty I say.
    A couple of thoughts about the US death penalty.

    The primary reason I hear from Americans who support it, (otherwise than the religious nonsense), is that it's cheaper than locking them up for life without parole. Unfortunately it isn't - putting someone in Death Row for 10-20 years is horrendously more expensive than incarcerating a lifer. I've seen the figures. The religious folks who believe all life is sacred are pro capital punishment. How illogical is that?

    Someone mentioned DNA testing, which is about as bullet proof as evidence gets today. Prosecutors often will deny convicted death row inmates requests for DNA testing for various reasons, one being they don't like to be shown to be wrong, or that the justice system is fallible. Also in some states there are limits on how long after conviction new evidence can be introduced. In Texas it used to be 30 days, but I believe they've updated it since then.
    And DNA testing is by no means bullet proof. The theory of course is sound under lab conditions but the actual practice, the use of partial or mixed DNA matches without explaining this to Juries and a considerable number of points in the system where errors can occur mean that DNA evidence is certainly not as conclusive as people like to believe.
    Bullet proof was probably a poor choice of words. DNA is the most reliable evidence, but as you say it's by no means 100% in practice.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City
    The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]

    Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]

    The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    At the Mexican grand prix the podium winners have just been given sombreros to wear by the organisers and yet the University of East Anglia (who know so much better) banned them as being "racist".

    Western 'society' deserves everything it gets now we've surrendered so completely to the lefty hand-wringer brigade.

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.
    One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    That's not remotely interesting - except in Norwich.
    isam said:

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    You exactly what I'm saying. @Charles said so many times before.

    snip

    I look forward to Sunil applying his considerable intellect to PB, rather than saying the same things again and again.

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    Tim_B said:

    GeoffM said:

    GeoffM said:

    snip
    Don't worry Geoff I didn't get it either so my vehement opposition to the death penalty would have cancelled your support out. Consider us following a Yougov pairing system :-)
    I genuinely like the pairing idea :)
    It's limited to that, though. The death penalty is about the only topic I've ever disagreed with you over in all the time I've been reading your comments.
    I used to be pro and am now anti. I've previously explained here about my experience with the death penalty.
    Yes, I recall your post on the subject. We are all shaped by our experiences, as am I in this matter. Let me make very clear at this point that I respect your views and the reasons for them completely. I have no intention of insulting you by attempting to debate the issue.

    d does not. So without this protection the only thing it might offer instead is to deter and avenge. And it refuses to do that either. So what use is the State?
    Does the death penalty in the US provide a nice, peaceful gun-free society?
    I'm not sure what relevance that daft question has to anything I said in a reply specifically directed to @Tim_B
    snip
    Please tell when I previously stated an opinion on the death penalty on this Forum.

    BTW I love you too! xx
    So prior to tonight, you can't tell us when I last discussed the death penalty on PB?
    It's this mans hometown

    http://youtu.be/BLLlkP2uNpA
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,190

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    Norwich was also where the first blood libel of the Jews occured in Britain. In England in 1144 Jews of Norwich were accused of ritual murder after a boy, William of Norwich, was found dead with stab wounds in the woods.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,960

    ydoethur said:



    That might indeed explain it. Still very annoying.

    I think after last year's tragic events the illegal trade might be a bit subdued this year. Although come to think of it, that might be why it was a bit quieter last year.

    I was heavily involved in that issue as an MP because the animal welfare lobby is keen to limit the period as so many animals get scared by constant bangs. We gradually whittled it down, as Ydoethur says, and I'm sorry to hear it's widened again. The whoile fashion really took off over the millennium.
    The window has not widened.
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    edited November 2015

    The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City

    The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]

    Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]

    The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]

    One of my favourite songs

    "And girl it looks so pretty to me like it always did
    Like the Spanish City to me when we were kids"
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    That must be why they don't wear sandals.

    Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    Norwich was also where the first blood libel of the Jews occured in Britain. In England in 1144 Jews of Norwich were accused of ritual murder after a boy, William of Norwich, was found dead with stab wounds in the woods.
    Very true, Mr. Mark, but I was trying to stay away from the Jewish angle. You know how some people on here can go off on one if the word is mentioned.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    AndyJS said:
    Looking at the pictures from there I can conclude that the tail broke off.
    Particularly on page 14 of that website I can see a large aerial picture of the crash site, it's clear that there are 2 main debris fields that are not much larger that 200 ft in diameter, one containing the tail section and one containing the rest of the plane.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    My first *our song* was Romeo and Juliet from that album, the second was Carry On Wayward Son by Kansas.

    Many mock Dire Straits but IMO they were great back then.

    The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City

    The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]

    Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]

    The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]

    One of my favourite songs

    "And girl it looks so pretty to me like it always did
    Like the Spanish City to me when we were kids"
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City

    The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]

    Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]

    The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.
    One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!


    I remember it as a kid when we'd go to Redcar on vacation. I was born near Blackpool and was shocked to read a recent article as to how far it has declined.

    Like the Dire Straits song but hadn't made the connection.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    That must be why they don't wear sandals.

    Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
    Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".

    My apologies.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    That must be why they don't wear sandals.

    Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
    Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".

    My apologies.
    Do we know how many toes SeanT has? ;)
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited November 2015
    When some Dire Straits bloke bought Otham Court stately home up the lane from me I was WTF!?

    I was 350 mile away emotional teenager and it felt so local.
    Tim_B said:

    The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City

    The Spanish City was a permanent funfair in Whitley Bay, a seaside town in North Tyneside, Tyne & Wear, England. Erected as a smaller version of Blackpool's Pleasure Beach, it opened in 1910 as a concert hall, restaurant, roof garden and tearoom. A ballroom was added in 1920, and later the funfair.[1]

    Located near the seafront, the Spanish City has a 180 ft-long (54.8 m) Renaissance-style frontage and became known for its distinctive dome, now a Grade II listed building.[2] There are towers on either side of the entrance, each of which carries a half-life-size female bacchanalian figure in lead, one holding cymbals, the other a tambourine. The building's architects were Robert Burns Dick, Charles T. Marshall and James Cackett.[3]

    The band Dire Straits immortalized the Spanish City in their 1980 hit single, "Tunnel of Love," which from then on was played every morning when the park opened.[4] By the late 1990s the building had fallen into disrepair, and in the early 2000s it was closed to the public.[5] A regeneration project was announced in 2011.[4]

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.
    One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!
    I remember it as a kid when we'd go to Redcar on vacation. I was born near Blackpool and was shocked to read a recent article as to how far it has declined.

    Like the Dire Straits song but hadn't made the connection.

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    When some Dire Straits bloke bought Otham Court stately home up the lane from me I was WTF!?

    I was 350 mile away emotional teenager and it felt so local.

    Tim_B said:

    The Spanish City was my local amusements - immortalisted by Dire Straits. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_City

    snip

    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    GeoffM said:

    The University of East Anglia, famous for their respected work on climate change ;-)
    The only thing I can remember of the university when I visited it was the Brutalist architecture.
    I visited Norwich and Great Yarmouth some years ago. East Anglia as a whole is an odd place. It's miles from anywhere.
    And several decades.
    Unfortunately many of our traditional coastal regions are in a poor out of date state. On of the problems with the coast is there is no one passing through. They are destinations and people have lots of choices now. Resorts have allowed themselves to decline.
    One of the big amusement arcades in Paignton always make me laugh. It must have been named in the early 70's, in a blaze of futuristic wonderment. However the said futuristic "Leisure 2000" could now do with a bit of rebranding!
    I remember it as a kid when we'd go to Redcar on vacation. I was born near Blackpool and was shocked to read a recent article as to how far it has declined.

    Like the Dire Straits song but hadn't made the connection.


    I just read the Wiki article, and as a teenager went to both Palisades and Rockaways. I remember Cullercoats on the train too. I have the Dire Straits Greatest Hits on my iPod and must have played that song many times and have never picked up on any of it!
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    That must be why they don't wear sandals.

    Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
    Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".

    My apologies.
    Do we know how many toes SeanT has? ;)
    Ah, but SeanT's dirty little secret* is that he was actually born in Devon. Not a Cornishman at all. Don't know about the toe count though.

    * Well its not actually a secret, being as how he confessed to the fact on this very web site.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    Or - - here's a challenge - Say something interesting, or novel about Norwich

    Norwich has a very fine castle, or rather the keep of a castle.

    Norwich also, reputedly, the largest number per capita of twelve toed people of any settlement in England, and that includes anywhere Cornwall (cornwall being the Celtic word for marrying a cousin).
    That must be why they don't wear sandals.

    Did you omit a word before 'Cornwall'?
    Sorry. It should have read, "Anywhere in Cornwall".

    My apologies.
    Do we know how many toes SeanT has? ;)
    Ah, but SeanT's dirty little secret* is that he was actually born in Devon. Not a Cornishman at all. Don't know about the toe count though.

    * Well its not actually a secret, being as how he confessed to the fact on this very web site.
    It's about as secret as the tourist signs in Essex pointing you to "Secret government nuclear bunker" then?
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:

    From VoteUK forum:

    Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
    Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
    Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
    Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
    Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
    Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
    Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:

    From VoteUK forum:

    Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
    Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
    Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
    Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
    Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
    Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
    Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)

    Why have labour gone from 2/9 to 1/10?
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.

    www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP
    Great plan, move them to a wide open berth on the edge of IS territory.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Quiet! All of you!

    "Tremors" is on ITV4 right now :)

    Tremors is on of those very fine films where the positive approval of the film has been undermined and indeed destroyed by years of utterly woeful sequels. From Dusk to Dawn has much the same problem (although I've heard positive things about the new Robert Rodriguez TV show).
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:

    From VoteUK forum:

    Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
    Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
    Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
    Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
    Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
    Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
    Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)

    No Karie Murphy? So disappointing.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dair said:

    GeoffM said:

    Danny565 said:

    Is there anywhere else in the UK that Trident could feasibly be moved to?

    I'm in favour of keeping it, but it does seem a bit bad to force the Scots to house it if they really are overwhelmingly against.

    We'll take it down here! Both local party leaders are in favour.

    www.express.co.uk/news/world/572986/Gibraltar-Trident-nuclear-submarines-SNP
    Great plan, move them to a wide open berth on the edge of IS territory.
    I didn't know Bradford had a sea port.
  • Options
    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Actually if you had looked earlier you would have seen that Tim_B is a strong opponent of the Death Penalty so your assumption is completely wrong.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Dair said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:

    From VoteUK forum:

    Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
    Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
    Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
    Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
    Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
    Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
    Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)

    No Karie Murphy? So disappointing.
    For the sh*ts and giggles?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    [snip other bollocks].
    Actually he's against it, you dull fuckwit.

  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
    Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:

    From VoteUK forum:

    Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
    Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
    Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
    Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
    Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
    Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
    Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)

    Why have labour gone from 2/9 to 1/10?
    I don't know. Which betting company?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    GeoffM said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    [snip other bollocks].
    Actually he's against it, you dull fuckwit.

    I'll regard that as your interview for the open position of my attack dog.

    You're hired!
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It may not be of any importance but an interesting thing I noticed about Oldham West & Royton is that according to UKPR it was 55% Christian at the time of the 2011 census which is only 4 points lower than the England-wide figure of 59% despite having a pretty high Asian/Muslim population.
  • Options
    GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071
    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
    Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.
    You've just provided more solid identifiable evidence (if more were needed) that you have the mental sharpness of a well used riot shield.

    Drop it and wriggle back under your stone.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    AndyJS said:

    isam said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently the Labour longlist for Oldham West & Royton includes Chris Williamson who lost Derby North to the Conservatives in May:

    From VoteUK forum:

    Mohammed Azam (Oldham councillor for Alexandra ward 1999-2004; stood for Oldham East selection in 2010)
    Jane East (candidate for Colne Valley in 2015; charity worker)
    Abdul Jabbar (Oldham councillor for Coldhurst ward since 1994)
    Sabina Khan (Brent councillor for Stonebridge ward since 2014?)
    Jim McMahon (Oldham council leader; councillor for Failsworth East ward since 2004; moderate)
    Sophie Taylor (Trafford councillor for Clifford ward since 2008; backed Angela Eagle for deputy leader)
    Chris Williamson (former MP for Derby North 2010-15; Derby city councillor 1991-2010 and twice Leader of Derby City Council; Corbynite)

    Why have labour gone from 2/9 to 1/10?
    I don't know. Which betting company?
    They're the current best prices and last weeks

    Farage is on LBC at the mo presenting a chat show as we type.. How odd!

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
    Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.
    There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.

    People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.
  • Options
    notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
    Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.
    There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.

    People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.
    Not sure... I can be persuaded. I have no opposition intellectually to the principle of people receiving the death penalty for murder (possibly also high treason), my objection is a technocratic one, the obvious risk of miscarriages of justice.
  • Options
    DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
    Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.
    There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.

    People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.
    I've never seen any argument from pro-death penalty people that made any logical sense and stood up to the lightest scrutiny.

    Your second paragraph is a different point to the one you made earlier. Yes, most people are probably unpersuadable one way or the other. I wouldn't say it will be 100% but it will be the vast bulk.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    notme said:

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    Dair said:

    Tim_B said:

    You can't really argue about the death penalty. You're either pro or anti. It's an irrational argument either way. It's like Manchester United, the NY Yankees or the Dallas Cowboys - you like it or hate it. It's not a view arrived at analytically.

    I sympathize with your situation and respect your views too. No wish to debate either.

    It is an absolute nonsense to argue that there are no rational, coherent arguments over the death penalty. Of course, you holding this view makes it certain you are a supporter because it is the pro lobby which has no justification for their desire for the death penalty.

    The arguments against it meanwhile are strong. The death penalty clearly does not work, there is no correlation between the death penalty and crime levels. When the death penalty in the United States came out of abeyance in 1976 there was no detectable fall in violent crime.

    Additionally the chance of error (including numerous very clear examples of error) demonstrate what a bad choice the death penalty is. Miscarriages happen, the death penalty removes the ability to redress these,

    Most damningly, however, there is the clear message that the death penalty actually offers - that brutal, violent revenge is the right course of action and is not just approved but actually practised by the state.
    Why not search my other posts on this thread and then reply again when you have done so, rather than just raving at my perceived position.

    Otherwise I shall have to call you unflattering names which I don't really want to do.

    It's posts like this that make me wonder about you.
    Apologies for the error but the point remains, there are solid, identifiable reasons why the death penalty should not exist. Your claim that there are none is just flat out wrong.
    There are facts on both sides. You probably don't know this, but I have had considerable experience with the death penalty here.

    People are not pro or anti because of any factual or analytical analysis - it's a gut feel. That's just the way it is. Argue the facts all you want but you'll find you can't persuade anyone on either side.
    Not sure... I can be persuaded. I have no opposition intellectually to the principle of people receiving the death penalty for murder (possibly also high treason), my objection is a technocratic one, the obvious risk of miscarriages of justice.
    You get to do this one on your own. I started pro and went anti.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited November 2015
    HYUFD said:

    Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/

    Sad but at least it means no more innumerable commercials for AIG reverse mortgages.

    He was Republican minority counsel at the Watergate hearings.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    AndyJS said:

    This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html

    It might be bizarre but - it's not unusual ;)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218
    edited November 2015
    Tim_B said:

    HYUFD said:

    Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/

    Sad but at least it means no more innumerable commercials for AIG reverse mortgages.

    He was Republican minority counsel at the Watergate hearings.
    Yes, I believe he was a lawyer too before he was an actor and politician. Of course it is all hypothetical now but had he won the presidency in 2008 and been re-elected he would now have died in office
  • Options
    Tim_B said:

    AndyJS said:

    This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html

    It might be bizarre but - it's not unusual ;)
    Sublime
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,059
    Tim_B said:

    AndyJS said:

    This is rather bizarre: a lot of black people in America apparently believe Tom Jones is "passing as white". He's having a DNA test to see if there's any truth in it.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3299505/I-having-DNA-test-ancestors-black-says-Sir-Tom-told-just-passing-white.html

    It might be bizarre but - it's not unusual ;)
    Maybe he'll release "the blue blue grass of home"
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2015
    "Kids Company blew tens of thousands on £240-an-hour Harley Street hypnotist who used 'weird' methods to treat young drug addicts"

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298621/Scandal-hit-Kids-Company-spent-tens-thousands-pounds-sending-staff-clients-240-hour-Harley-Street-hypnotherapist.html
  • Options
    HYUFD said:

    Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/

    Hunt for Red October was on earlier today - on "Dave" of all channels :)
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,218

    HYUFD said:

    Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/

    Hunt for Red October was on earlier today - on "Dave" of all channels :)
    Yes indeed I caught the end, I always try to watch it if it is on, a final bow from Fred, night
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    HYUFD said:

    Former Senator, 2008 GOP presidential candidate and 'Days of Thunder', 'Die Hard 2' 'Hunt for Red October', and 'Law and Order' star Fred Thompson has died
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/11/01/fred-thompson-former-us-senator-dead-at-73/

    Hunt for Red October was on earlier today - on "Dave" of all channels :)
    In case you don't know, SeanT is currently in Mumbai.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Why does the stupid Turkish elections website
    (a) not show the map properly?
    (b) not have a scroll-bar thingy at the bottom of the screen to allow us to move across to see the map properly?

    http://www.yenisafak.com/en/secim-2015-kasim/secim-sonuclari
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Next president, WIlliam Hill:

    Clinton 1.8
    Rubio 5
    Trump 7.5

    http://sports.williamhill.com/bet/en-gb/betting/y/12/Politics.html
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