politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Antifrank looks at what now for the House of Lords

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

Malmesbury said:

Anorak said:

Pong said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

JEO said:

perdix said:

Plato_Says said:

Golly

Parts of London have higher rates of tuberculosis than countries such as Rwanda, Eritrea and Iraq, according to a report.

The capital recorded more than 2,500 new cases of TB last year - about 40% of the UK's total.

http://news.sky.com/story/1577136/astounding-rates-of-tb-in-parts-of-london

Interesting comparisons but perhaps not quite "fair"? It's likely that some parts of Rwanda, Eritrea and Iraq have a higher incidence than some parts of London.
Not good anyway.

My oldest was born in London and had to get a TB vaccine which left a long term scar that his friends do not have. Apparently we eliminated it in the UK but African migrants brought it back.

BCG vaccine, I had mine in 1990 IIRC.

Sunil, I don't think you quite understand.

JEO's oldest son is SCARRED FOR LIFE.

BY THE AFRICAN MIGRANTS.

Ah, I remember queueing up as a 12 year old at school for my BCG (and the dreaded, terrifying-sounding, but innocuous "six needles" beforehand). All the boys leaving the room, by unspoken agreement, held their arm and adopted an expression which spoke of long-lasting trauma and extreme pain. A frisson of fear built up amongst the queuers as child after child left 'the room'.

Turned out not to be that bad, all in all. Bit like a Tory government

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

Or...they result in families not being able to pay their rent and mortgages and result in even higher welfare costs

LOL = now tax credits which give people state money are not subsidised by the state!!!! Is this how the magic money tree works?

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

Or...they result in families not being able to pay their rent and mortgages and result in even higher welfare costs

LOL = now tax credits which give people state money are not subsidised by the state!!!! Is this how the magic money tree works?

Tell me something. If a working couple's current income matches their current living costs, but then lose £1500 of their income what happens? It's pretty simple

Malmesbury said:

MP_SE said:

All this talk about the House of Lords jogged my memory.

I completely forgot about the bizarre incident involving Lord James and "Foundation X" who supposedly wanted to invest tens of billions of pounds in the UK economy.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/03/strange-case-lord-james-foundation-x

I don't think anyone ever got to the bottom of what went on.

Sounds like a standard thing that goes around - some group allegedly sitting on pile of gold that is either a substantial fraction of the all the gold ever mined or, in the crazy version, more gold than has ever been mined!

It's like 419, but for investors....

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

Or...they result in families not being able to pay their rent and mortgages and result in even higher welfare costs

LOL = now tax credits which give people state money are not subsidised by the state!!!! Is this how the magic money tree works?

Tell me something. If a working couple's current income matches their current living costs, but then lose £1500 of their income what happens? It's pretty simple

They would need to find an additional source of income or reduce their living costs

rogerh said:

Antifrank is right to ask the key question .What is the Lords for?In 1911 it emerged as a revising chamber.No doubt that this was a concession to get through the more important issue of HOC contol over financial matters until its eventual abolition.
what is the prime function of the Lords to day.Nominally it is as a revising chamber but the reality is that is a bloated repository to reward politicians from all parties for their service to the party.
The HOL is long past its sell by date -a costly anachronism which does not require reform but abolition.
There is away of moving towards abolition.That is to finally solve the west lothian question by moving to a federal Britain with home rule and English,Scottish,Welsh and N Ireland parliaments.
The house of ords as second chamber would be replaced by a small elected uk parliament to handle defence ,security , foreign affairs,currency and UK wide infrastructure.

It amazes me that the HOL is treated with such deference.Its time for cross party campaign to move from the early unsatisfactory 20th century settlement to the 21st century abolition abolition

felix said:

"Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state." The Kraken Wakes

Labournomics - still can't believe he typed and posted that.

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

Or...they result in families not being able to pay their rent and mortgages and result in even higher welfare costs

LOL = now tax credits which give people state money are not subsidised by the state!!!! Is this how the magic money tree works?

Tell me something. If a working couple's current income matches their current living costs, but then lose £1500 of their income what happens? It's pretty simple

They would need to find an additional source of income or reduce their living costs

Get a third job then...nice one

Speedy said:

Casino_Royale said:

Speedy said:

Moses_ said:

Oh dear, what a shame, never mind heh?

You will regret this, a government that cannot be held accountable to voters will make the very existence of it controversial, people will end up hating parliament itself to a scale never seen since before 1832.

Most of these objections can be boiled down to: I don't agree with the General Election result.

Lets say the result is Con 24% Lab 43%, Labour would still not be able to form a majority government, on Con 31%, Lab 38% (the reverse of 2015) the Tories will still have a majority.

Now a government that loses the popular vote by 7 points would be so unpopular that it doesn't have democratic legitimacy if it stays in power, there will be riots on election night (what would have happened in 1997 in case that despite the result the Tories still had a majority).

Tim_B said:

Malmesbury said:

Tim_B said:

Malmesbury said:

Anorak said:

Pong said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

JEO said:

perdix said:

Plato_Says said:

Golly

Parts of London have higher rates of tuberculosis than countries such as Rwanda, Eritrea and Iraq, according to a report.

The capital recorded more than 2,500 new cases of TB last year - about 40% of the UK's total.

http://news.sky.com/story/1577136/astounding-rates-of-tb-in-parts-of-london

Interesting comparisons but perhaps not quite "fair"? It's likely that some parts of Rwanda, Eritrea and Iraq have a higher incidence than some parts of London.
Not good anyway.

My oldest was born in London and had to get a TB vaccine which left a long term scar that his friends do not have. Apparently we eliminated it in the UK but African migrants brought it back.

BCG vaccine, I had mine in 1990 IIRC.

Sunil, I don't think you quite understand.

JEO's oldest son is SCARRED FOR LIFE.

BY THE AFRICAN MIGRANTS.

Ah, I remember queueing up as a 12 year old at school for my BCG (and the dreaded, terrifying-sounding, but innocuous "six needles" beforehand). All the boys leaving the room, by unspoken agreement, held their arm and adopted an expression which spoke of long-lasting trauma and extreme pain. A frisson of fear built up amongst the queuers as child after child left 'the room'.

Turned out not to be that bad, all in all. Bit like a Tory government

The real worry are the antibiotic resistant strains that are showing up. Lots of bad prescribing in the Third World, self medicating for everything etc..

It's not just the third world. Many people given courses of antibiotics in Europe and N America fail to complete it.

But the biggest problem is in countries with poorer health systems and lower levels of education

I made myself very, very unpopular among my wife's family in the Old Country by binning a considerable quantity of very ancient antibiotics that they would dose themselves with in self taught style. What 6 year out of date erythromycin would do for you (stored at a mean temperature of 25C), I shudder to think.....

rottenborough said:

Over in the States. GOP debate tomorrow night. The candidates on main debate stage:

Donald Trump, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie, and John Kasich.

Malmesbury said:

MP_SE said:

Malmesbury said:

MP_SE said:

All this talk about the House of Lords jogged my memory.

I completely forgot about the bizarre incident involving Lord James and "Foundation X" who supposedly wanted to invest tens of billions of pounds in the UK economy.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/03/strange-case-lord-james-foundation-x

I don't think anyone ever got to the bottom of what went on.

Sounds like a standard thing that goes around - some group allegedly sitting on pile of gold that is either a substantial fraction of the all the gold ever mined or, in the crazy version, more gold than has ever been mined!

It's like 419, but for investors....

I wouldn't be surprised if it was something along those lines. Similar to the Banco Noroeste fraud where they lost several hundred million dollars after an executive thought he was going to invest in an airport. I think he was prosecuted as they couldn't accept someone would be that stupid.

Read up on Prime Bank Guarantee scams. This always makes me giggle -

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-03/accused-fraudster-spent-his-money-on-other-frauds

JonnyJimmy said:

I've just started to have a glance through the Lib Dem peers, to see what qualification they might have as lawmakers for this country.

Can anyone see any worthwhile expertise in this married couple?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Beith
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baroness_Maddock

EDIT - both elevated to the peerage after losing their seats at General elections

TheKrakenAwakes said:

richardDodd said:

TKA Is that your contribution to the debate... no wonder everybody thinks you are thick.

I'll tell you one thing Dick. When Osborne announced the tax credit cuts back in July I was on here highlighting what a disastrous move it was...both for those who would suffer the losses and for the Tories.

I told you that families would lose hundreds and hundreds of pounds and all I heard from you and your Tory sycophants was that "welfare cuts" are popular with the public.

Well who was right?...was it you Dick?

The great comfort I have is, that despite all the rubbish I hear on here from 90% of the posts from individuals with not the slightest notion of how difficult it is out in the real world for hard working families, who assume every benefit recipient is a sponger and every part-timer is exploiting the tax credits system...the greatest comfort is that the cuts will be smaller, will be phased in and those who will suffer because of them will at least have a chance to prepare for them.

Do you wonder why I am so passionate about tax credit cuts? It's because I have family members who would have been absolutely slaughtered by these cuts. Not lazy layabouts but people who were raised right and who work hard for their families. People not as lucky as you and I...people with disabled children for whom they had to give up their jobs to care for....and it's people like this who are the real victims of Osborne's madness.

TheKrakenAwakes said:

richardDodd said:

TKA It is what most people have to do..we do .. and we don't get any tax credits ..

Ah DickyDodd...I wondered when you'd stick your head over the parapet...can't keep a miserable old dog down can you?

TheWhiteRabbit said:

MP_SE said:

rottenborough said:

Over in the States. GOP debate tomorrow night. The candidates on main debate stage:

Donald Trump, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie, and John Kasich.

Too many scrubs are still on the field. The numbers need slashing so the candidates get more time for in depth answers.

Graham, Pataki, Santorum, Jindal and Gilmore should withdraw.

rottenborough said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

MP_SE said:

rottenborough said:

Over in the States. GOP debate tomorrow night. The candidates on main debate stage:

Donald Trump, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie, and John Kasich.

Too many scrubs are still on the field. The numbers need slashing so the candidates get more time for in depth answers.

Graham, Pataki, Santorum, Jindal and Gilmore should withdraw.

These guys are relegated to the under-stage, or what ever it is called.

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

felix said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Anorak said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

I posted something similar earlier but didn't really get an explanation but I was looking at the "Public Expenditure Statistical Analyses 2015", (as you do) and the figure of expenditure for tax credits in 2010/11 was £28,938 million and in 2014/15 it was £29,187...virtually flat. Where is the ballooning tax credit bill?

2004-2011.

Boooooom! Headshot.

So why is Osborne so fixated with this now...he's been there for five years without slashing and burning. By definition the tax credits bill will go down because free childcare is being extended whereas before 70% of it was recoverable through tax credits and 2010 - 2015 pay rises were minimal. As pay goes up tax credits come down so the tax credits bill is going to go down in the next few years anyway

I genuinely think he would liked to have done this years ago. His hand was stayed by the presence of his coalition partners. I suspect such a measure -if proposed in the previous parliament - would have faltered and died (never to be resurrected) or would have led to the collapse of the government at the time.

I agree...but we should remember that in that period of time the UK economy was turned around, the deficit problem was taken on and employment rose to record high levels. Maybe, it was because the cuts weren't made that the coalition was able to achieve that...had these cuts taken place then, the risk of choking off the recovery would have been greater

Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state.

I know this might blow your mind.

But it might HELP the recovery

o_O

Or...they result in families not being able to pay their rent and mortgages and result in even higher welfare costs

LOL = now tax credits which give people state money are not subsidised by the state!!!! Is this how the magic money tree works?

Tell me something. If a working couple's current income matches their current living costs, but then lose £1500 of their income what happens? It's pretty simple

£1500 is not their income - it's the income of other taxpayers. What real people do when their money goes down is they cut their coat accordingly and adjust their living costs.

ReggieCide said:

felix said:

"Tax credits make less-productive people more productive - as they are not subsidised by the state." The Kraken Wakes

Labournomics - still can't believe he typed and posted that.

I suspect he actually believes in this twaddle which makes the typing and posting more believable but his credibility less so, if that's possible.

rottenborough said:

TheWhiteRabbit said:

rottenborough said:

Over in the States. GOP debate tomorrow night. The candidates on main debate stage:

Donald Trump, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, Rand Paul, Carly Fiorina, Chris Christie, and John Kasich.

10?!

Yep. Full details here:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/10/third-gop-2016-debate-colorado-when-is-it-215162

Jeb needs a killer session this time, or he is in deep trouble.

Tim_B said:

Welfare involves a payment to you of money paid by other taxpayers.

A tax credit involves no payment at all - you simply keep more of your own money.

Pulpstar said:

Tim_B said:

Welfare involves a payment to you of money paid by other taxpayers.

A tax credit involves no payment at all - you simply keep more of your own money.

Lol except the credits are larger than the amounts of tax paid. Often there is no tax paid. The word "Tax credit" is a political fiction

TheKrakenAwakes said:

richardDodd said:

TKA Is that your contribution to the debate... no wonder everybody thinks you are thick.

I'll tell you one thing Dick. When Osborne announced the tax credit cuts back in July I was on here highlighting what a disastrous move it was...both for those who would suffer the losses and for the Tories.

I told you that families would lose hundreds and hundreds of pounds and all I heard from you and your Tory sycophants was that "welfare cuts" are popular with the public.

Well who was right?...was it you Dick?

The great comfort I have is, that despite all the rubbish I hear on here from 90% of the posts from individuals with not the slightest notion of how difficult it is out in the real world for hard working families, who assume every benefit recipient is a sponger and every part-timer is exploiting the tax credits system...the greatest comfort is that the cuts will be smaller, will be phased in and those who will suffer because of them will at least have a chance to prepare for them.

Do you wonder why I am so passionate about tax credit cuts? It's because I have family members who would have been absolutely slaughtered by these cuts. Not lazy layabouts but people who were raised right and who work hard for their families. People not as lucky as you and I...people with disabled children for whom they had to give up their jobs to care for....and it's people like this who are the real victims of Osborne's madness.

Tim_B said:

Pulpstar said:

Tim_B said:

Welfare involves a payment to you of money paid by other taxpayers.

A tax credit involves no payment at all - you simply keep more of your own money.

Lol except the credits are larger than the amounts of tax paid. Often there is no tax paid. The word "Tax credit" is a political fiction

That's insane - how can you have a tax credit greater than the tax paid - that's a welfare payment by another name.

Moses_ said:

MP_SE said:

Malmesbury said:

MP_SE said:

Malmesbury said:

MP_SE said:

All this talk about the House of Lords jogged my memory.

I completely forgot about the bizarre incident involving Lord James and "Foundation X" who supposedly wanted to invest tens of billions of pounds in the UK economy.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/nov/03/strange-case-lord-james-foundation-x

I don't think anyone ever got to the bottom of what went on.

Sounds like a standard thing that goes around - some group allegedly sitting on pile of gold that is either a substantial fraction of the all the gold ever mined or, in the crazy version, more gold than has ever been mined!

It's like 419, but for investors....

I wouldn't be surprised if it was something along those lines. Similar to the Banco Noroeste fraud where they lost several hundred million dollars after an executive thought he was going to invest in an airport. I think he was prosecuted as they couldn't accept someone would be that stupid.

Read up on Prime Bank Guarantee scams. This always makes me giggle -

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-09-03/accused-fraudster-spent-his-money-on-other-frauds

Amazing. Loses the proceeds of the scam to other con artists.

Mortimer said:

Is there any truth to the tale that they are called tax credits so as to be considered negative income tax on the UK balance sheet, rather than part of DWP budget?

TheWhiteRabbit said:

Mortimer said:

Is there any truth to the tale that they are called tax credits so as to be considered negative income tax on the UK balance sheet, rather than part of DWP budget?

Well HMRC manages tax credits. But it does manage other "benefits" like Child Benefit.

TheKrakenAwakes said:

Mortimer said:

TheKrakenAwakes said:

richardDodd said:

TKA Is that your contribution to the debate... no wonder everybody thinks you are thick.

I'll tell you one thing Dick. When Osborne announced the tax credit cuts back in July I was on here highlighting what a disastrous move it was...both for those who would suffer the losses and for the Tories.

I told you that families would lose hundreds and hundreds of pounds and all I heard from you and your Tory sycophants was that "welfare cuts" are popular with the public.

Well who was right?...was it you Dick?

The great comfort I have is, that despite all the rubbish I hear on here from 90% of the posts from individuals with not the slightest notion of how difficult it is out in the real world for hard working families, who assume every benefit recipient is a sponger and every part-timer is exploiting the tax credits system...the greatest comfort is that the cuts will be smaller, will be phased in and those who will suffer because of them will at least have a chance to prepare for them.

Do you wonder why I am so passionate about tax credit cuts? It's because I have family members who would have been absolutely slaughtered by these cuts. Not lazy layabouts but people who were raised right and who work hard for their families. People not as lucky as you and I...people with disabled children for whom they had to give up their jobs to care for....and it's people like this who are the real victims of Osborne's madness.

ve

I have family who are recipients of tax credits too. They're living beyond their means on the taxes paid by others. They will cut back their unnecessary spending or work more hours.

And those others are not much better off than them - or - quite frequently - no better off per hour at all.

You have not answered my long-standing question btw - why should those working full time subsidise those working full time. Frequently it is by choice.

And you know that people who are full time carers get a carer's allowance, right?

"And you know that people who are full time carers get a carer's allowance, right?" Yes, which means that they cannot work extra hours to make up the tax credit loss

Scott_P said:

MP_SE said:

Ouch. You know Spectre is bad when it is mentioned in the same sentence as The Phantom Menace. I tried to watch Quantum of Solace the other evening but gave up.

I would rather watch Quantum of Solace on repeat rather than sit through Spectre again

TheKrakenAwakes said:

richardDodd said:

TKA Is that your contribution to the debate... no wonder everybody thinks you are thick.

I'll tell you one thing Dick. When Osborne announced the tax credit cuts back in July I was on here highlighting what a disastrous move it was...both for those who would suffer the losses and for the Tories.

I told you that families would lose hundreds and hundreds of pounds and all I heard from you and your Tory sycophants was that "welfare cuts" are popular with the public.

Well who was right?...was it you Dick?

The great comfort I have is, that despite all the rubbish I hear on here from 90% of the posts from individuals with not the slightest notion of how difficult it is out in the real world for hard working families, who assume every benefit recipient is a sponger and every part-timer is exploiting the tax credits system...the greatest comfort is that the cuts will be smaller, will be phased in and those who will suffer because of them will at least have a chance to prepare for them.

Do you wonder why I am so passionate about tax credit cuts? It's because I have family members who would have been absolutely slaughtered by these cuts. Not lazy layabouts but people who were raised right and who work hard for their families. People not as lucky as you and I...people with disabled children for whom they had to give up their jobs to care for....and it's people like this who are the real victims of Osborne's madness.