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edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Nick Palmer on why we shouldn’t pay too much attention to EU referendum polls

Membership of the EU is so central to many aspects of our political debate that almost everyone in politics has a strong view about it. We project that onto the electorate at large, and then puzzle over the small number of people who actually mention it as an issue that they worry about. Is it because the question is badly put, or because they’re concealing their strong feelings?

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    Good afternoon young Nicholas .... :smile:
  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    This is a good article - and a great example of how a left-wing author can write something that doesn't come over as a spin piece. Don Brind should take note.

    In terms of the inconsistencies described, I think the main feature is the public are just uninformed, and more so than in other EU countries. This has been the effect of the major parties wanting to be in the EU, but knowing the public are eurosceptic, so they simply avoid talking about the issue. When people do point out the very real effects it has, they are often accused of "banging on" about it. The end result is not much public debate, and a poorly informed electorate. This is why I would like to see a good year or so between the renegotiation results and the referendum so people can really understand the arguments and the fact base. The Scottish referendum really improved political consciousness in Scotland, and I'd like to see a similar thing here.
  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    The previous thread is a lesson in how wrapping yourself up in technicalities and embracing moral relativism means you do not see the wood for trees. The French Resistance were defending liberal democracy against a horrific ethnic cleansing regime, while the Iraqi army were defending a barbaric dictator against an alliance that wanted to implement democracy.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    Nick is absolutely correct. Apart from people who have nothing better to do, most people probably don't even know there will be a referendum coming.

    Anyway, with a couple of months to go, they will see at some event Cameron , Blair, Brown and Major will be standing next to each other and will ask the people to stay IN and that will be that.

    In 1975, when Labour was the anti-Europe party, it was put about as "Harold knows best".
  • Chris_A
    Chris_A Posts: 1,237
    Is the upside down flag deliberate?
  • AndyJS
    AndyJS Posts: 29,395
    A third of people haven't bothered to vote in a general election since 1997. Even then the figure was 29% not voting.
  • Danny565
    Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    I think the article is spot on - outside of the hugely politically-interested circles, I really don't think Joe Public gives a crap about the Referendum yet.

    Whether they will EVER start caring, before the Referendum happens, is an open question.
  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    This is despicable by the way:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-accused-of-doing-chinas-bidding-after-police-raid-home-of-tiananmen-square-survivor-over-peaceful-a6704911.html

    I understand we need to hold our noses and do business with China, but we should never forget that we are on the side of the democratic activists.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    JEO said:

    This is despicable by the way:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-accused-of-doing-chinas-bidding-after-police-raid-home-of-tiananmen-square-survivor-over-peaceful-a6704911.html

    I understand we need to hold our noses and do business with China, but we should never forget that we are on the side of the democratic activists.

    Sorry to say this. But our fawning recently has been shameless. Even Kate and William were selling Aston Martin !
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    JEO said:

    The previous thread is a lesson in how wrapping yourself up in technicalities and embracing moral relativism means you do not see the wood for trees. The French Resistance were defending liberal democracy against a horrific ethnic cleansing regime, while the Iraqi army were defending a barbaric dictator against an alliance that wanted to implement democracy.

    Exactly. There's a good argument that life for the average Iraqi was less bad under Saddam than under the various monsters who've emerged since his overthrow. But, that doesn't mean that Saddam was not a brute. And that doesn't mean that it was Western forces who victimised Iraqis. It was Saddam and the other monsters who victimised them.

  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    The previous thread is a lesson in how wrapping yourself up in technicalities and embracing moral relativism means you do not see the wood for trees. The French Resistance were defending liberal democracy against a horrific ethnic cleansing regime, while the Iraqi army were defending a barbaric dictator against an alliance that wanted to implement democracy.

    Exactly. There's a good argument that life for the average Iraqi was less bad under Saddam than under the various monsters who've emerged since his overthrow. But, that doesn't mean that Saddam was not a brute. And that doesn't mean that it was Western forces who victimised Iraqis. It was Saddam and the other monsters who victimised them.

    Yes, people like to talk about X million dead from the Iraq war, but most of those killed were by sectarian Iraqi leaders and Muslim religious zealots. There were certainly times where the USA betrayed her Christian principles, when it comes to torture and the like, but this was a handful of cases among suffering mainly carried out by the USA's opponents.
  • rottenborough
    rottenborough Posts: 66,865
    Great post. But not entirely sure that the 1.08 is totally free money. There's a chance, very slight obviously, that some event will get in the way. What if war in Syria escalates somehow and we are dragged into serious fighting against Russia? What if Portugal implodes financially or politically as seems possible and the whole EU faces some kind of crisis.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Good start to the second half by the ABs
  • calum
    calum Posts: 3,046
    I thought criminals weren't getting the vote !!

    https://twitter.com/consforbritain/status/654267029873147904
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    A PRECIS WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER

    "DON'T PAY ATTENTIION TO OPINION POLLS"
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    rottenborough said:

    Great post. But not entirely sure that the 1.08 is totally free money. There's a chance, very slight obviously, that some event will get in the way. What if war in Syria escalates somehow and we are dragged into serious fighting against Russia? What if Portugal implodes financially or politically as seems possible and the whole EU faces some kind of crisis.

    Portugal could be very interesting.

    It's reminds me a little bit of 2010, only where The Labour Party, the Greens, and the LibDems got together to try and make "Jamaica"-type coalition.

    Personal view: the PS - which thought it was going to win the election until a few weeks ago - ends up in a highly unstable coalition with the radical left.

    Which lasts perhaps a month or two. Either the PS then fragments, with a minority of deputies supporting Forward Portugal. Or we see new elections.
  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    edited October 2015
    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Great post. But not entirely sure that the 1.08 is totally free money. There's a chance, very slight obviously, that some event will get in the way. What if war in Syria escalates somehow and we are dragged into serious fighting against Russia? What if Portugal implodes financially or politically as seems possible and the whole EU faces some kind of crisis.

    Portugal could be very interesting.

    It's reminds me a little bit of 2010, only where The Labour Party, the Greens, and the LibDems got together to try and make "Jamaica"-type coalition.
    .
    Jamaica coalition? It's black, yellow and green on da Jamaican flag!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Jamaica
  • Dair
    Dair Posts: 6,108
    edited October 2015
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Great post. But not entirely sure that the 1.08 is totally free money. There's a chance, very slight obviously, that some event will get in the way. What if war in Syria escalates somehow and we are dragged into serious fighting against Russia? What if Portugal implodes financially or politically as seems possible and the whole EU faces some kind of crisis.

    Portugal could be very interesting.

    It's reminds me a little bit of 2010, only where The Labour Party, the Greens, and the LibDems got together to try and make "Jamaica"-type coalition.
    .
    Jamaica coalition? It's black, yellow and green on da Jamaican flag!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Jamaica
    Mali coalition
  • Artist
    Artist Posts: 1,893
    edited October 2015
    Lets be honest, the majority of people don't have a clue about the EU, what it does, how it affects us and what exactly the European parliament is for. For people to get to grips with such a multi faceted question and make an informed decision, based on a short campaign is going to be impossible. Voters will be going into the booths and making a blind choice.
  • JEO
    JEO Posts: 3,656
    edited October 2015
    Dair said:

    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rottenborough said:

    Great post. But not entirely sure that the 1.08 is totally free money. There's a chance, very slight obviously, that some event will get in the way. What if war in Syria escalates somehow and we are dragged into serious fighting against Russia? What if Portugal implodes financially or politically as seems possible and the whole EU faces some kind of crisis.

    Portugal could be very interesting.

    It's reminds me a little bit of 2010, only where The Labour Party, the Greens, and the LibDems got together to try and make "Jamaica"-type coalition.
    .
    Jamaica coalition? It's black, yellow and green on da Jamaican flag!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Jamaica
    Mali coalition
    Traffic light coalition, surely?
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Good evening, everyone.

    Mildly surprised practice went ahead. Both Ferraris have 10 place grid penalties due to new engines, which means the front row would be Hamilton-Hulkenberg if the P3 times are used [should qualifying be cancelled].

    I concur that most voters aren't paying attention, and those that are likely have a pretty settled view already.
  • stodge
    stodge Posts: 14,908
    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Close match between S Africa and New Zealand but the All Blacks go through to the final and the chance to become the first side to win back to back World Cups
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,609
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Halifax, Phoenix
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    edited October 2015
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Middlesex, Essex, Wessex ?

    Edit: and Herstmoncux

    In France, Bordeaux, and I think there're several others as well.
  • Steven_Whaley
    Steven_Whaley Posts: 313
    Nick Palmer writes: "Is there really a quarter of the electorate that is so Europhile that it wants an ever-closer union, yet so Eurosceptic that it will vote to withdraw altogether if this is not in prospect?"

    Possibly so. It's going to be a strange campaign. As EU-enthusiast I already feel defeated. I'm going to be asked to choose between leaving immediately or staying in under more EU-sceptic conditions. There'll not be anything on the ballot paper to enthuse me. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that I make wake on on the day of the referendum and think, "Sod it, the EU is better off without us."
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    JEO said:

    This is despicable by the way:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-accused-of-doing-chinas-bidding-after-police-raid-home-of-tiananmen-square-survivor-over-peaceful-a6704911.html

    I understand we need to hold our noses and do business with China, but we should never forget that we are on the side of the democratic activists.

    Agreed. A good job we're watering down that pesky Human Rights Act. Perhaps President Xi had some useful hints for Mr Cameron?

    I'm trolling here, not least as Labour's record wasn't great either, but it's worth all of us keeping in mind that when in power most leaders tend to think that dissidents are a nuisance. As an MP I used to pay a visit each year to the local Amnesty branch, who would always grill me for two hours about what we were doing and not doing, and I still support them, even when I think they're worrying about some undesirable character - it's a bit of nuisance that people in politics need.

  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited October 2015
    The -sex suffix is from Anglo-Saxon / Old English, with the actual meaning being "Saxon".

    Sussex is essentially "South Saxon".
    Middlesex is "Middle Saxon".
    Essex is "East Saxon".
    Wessex is "West Saxon".​​​​​​​

    It's Herstmonceux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herstmonceux#History
    The name ’’Herstmonceux’’ comes from Anglo-Saxon hyrst, "wooded hill", plus the name of the Monceux family who were lords of the manor here in the 12th century.
    JosiasJessop said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Middlesex, Essex, Wessex ?

    Edit: and Herstmoncux

    In France, Bordeaux, and I think there're several others as well.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p
  • stodge
    stodge Posts: 14,908
    Hmm.... Halifax, Phoenix - talk about having one of those "moments". Bordeaux - perhaps I should have stayed off the sangria ?

    Please resume the endless argument on the benefits or otherwise of our continued membership of the European Union.
  • Pulpstar
    Pulpstar Posts: 79,813
    On topic I'm on “There will be a referendum under this government” at 1.15 :)
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    Steven_Whaley said:

    Nick Palmer writes: "Is there really a quarter of the electorate that is so Europhile that it wants an ever-closer union, yet so Eurosceptic that it will vote to withdraw altogether if this is not in prospect?"

    Possibly so. It's going to be a strange campaign. As EU-enthusiast I already feel defeated. I'm going to be asked to choose between leaving immediately or staying in under more EU-sceptic conditions. There'll not be anything on the ballot paper to enthuse me. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that I make wake on on the day of the referendum and think, "Sod it, the EU is better off without us."

    Yes, I must admit I'm tempted to agree with you. But I doubt if 24% of the electorate does.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Miss Plato, so the alternative rendition of Saxony is 'Sexy'?
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,609
    stodge said:

    Hmm.... Halifax, Phoenix - talk about having one of those "moments". Bordeaux - perhaps I should have stayed off the sangria ?

    Please resume the endless argument on the benefits or otherwise of our continued membership of the European Union.

    I don't know, discussion of place names ending in 'x' sounds preferable.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    :smiley:
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, so the alternative rendition of Saxony is 'Sexy'?

  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good evening, everyone.

    Mildly surprised practice went ahead. Both Ferraris have 10 place grid penalties due to new engines, which means the front row would be Hamilton-Hulkenberg if the P3 times are used [should qualifying be cancelled].

    I concur that most voters aren't paying attention, and those that are likely have a pretty settled view already.

    Qualifying due to start on the hour, in 45 mins' time, but looking likely to be delayed due to the rain.
  • Moses_
    Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    FPT

    Thanks to john Liburne for his quick response to my P45 question on previous thread. Appreciated.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    edited October 2015
    Mr. Sandpit, aye, until tomorrow morning. But I wouldn't mind if they used the P3 times to set up the grid.

    Mr. D, but can you name the Gallic leader whose name ended in X (not Vercingetorix) against whom Caesar fought and won?
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ha, well spotted
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p

  • Chris_A
    Chris_A Posts: 1,237
    JosiasJessop said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Middlesex, Essex, Wessex ?

    Edit: and Herstmoncux

    In France, Bordeaux, and I think there're several others as well.
    Lisieux and Dreux to name just two places I visited on holiday this year
  • Steven_Whaley
    Steven_Whaley Posts: 313
    edited October 2015
    NickPalmer said:



    Yes, I must admit I'm tempted to agree with you. But I doubt if 24% of the electorate does.

    Oh, well at least I'm not completely isolated on the issue. Thanks, Nick. ;)
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    F1: they're going to try and run qualifying at 7.15pm, UK time.
  • Sean_F
    Sean_F Posts: 39,132
    JEO said:

    This is a good article - and a great example of how a left-wing author can write something that doesn't come over as a spin piece. Don Brind should take note.

    In terms of the inconsistencies described, I think the main feature is the public are just uninformed, and more so than in other EU countries. This has been the effect of the major parties wanting to be in the EU, but knowing the public are eurosceptic, so they simply avoid talking about the issue. When people do point out the very real effects it has, they are often accused of "banging on" about it. The end result is not much public debate, and a poorly informed electorate. This is why I would like to see a good year or so between the renegotiation results and the referendum so people can really understand the arguments and the fact base. The Scottish referendum really improved political consciousness in Scotland, and I'd like to see a similar thing here.

    I wonder if the EU will unravel from the inside, as support for insurgent right wing parties continues to rise.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I suspect our EU Ref will spread a contagion. Hungary has already expressed an interest in their own.
    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    This is a good article - and a great example of how a left-wing author can write something that doesn't come over as a spin piece. Don Brind should take note.

    In terms of the inconsistencies described, I think the main feature is the public are just uninformed, and more so than in other EU countries. This has been the effect of the major parties wanting to be in the EU, but knowing the public are eurosceptic, so they simply avoid talking about the issue. When people do point out the very real effects it has, they are often accused of "banging on" about it. The end result is not much public debate, and a poorly informed electorate. This is why I would like to see a good year or so between the renegotiation results and the referendum so people can really understand the arguments and the fact base. The Scottish referendum really improved political consciousness in Scotland, and I'd like to see a similar thing here.

    I wonder if the EU will unravel from the inside, as support for insurgent right wing parties continues to rise.
  • SquareRoot
    SquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Montreux
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Miss Plato, not so sure.

    If we vote Out (and actually leave...) it might. Or if we vote Out, get some concessions, and are betrayed to stay in, it might.

    But, as I think In will win, that'll be seen as a green light from the most sceptical of nations for lots more lovely, demented integration.

    Besides, the EU has an appalling habit of ignoring referendum results or asking the question repeatedly until the 'right' answer is given.
  • MTimT
    MTimT Posts: 7,034
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Bronx.
  • MTimT
    MTimT Posts: 7,034
    MTimT said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Bronx.
    Chamonix, Gex spring to mind from Geneva days.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    The EU referendum does look like it could be even closer than indyref at present, though I think Remain will still win
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Ohio primary poll BGSU
    GOP
    Trump: 26.9%
    Carson: 21.8%
    Kasich: 12.5%
    Bush: 5.6%
    Fiorina: 5.6%
    Cruz: 3.6%
    Paul: 3.3%
    Huckabee: 2.3%
    Christie: 2.1%
    Pataki: 1.4%
    Rubio: 1.4%
    Santorum: 1%
    Graham: 0.7%
    Gilmore: 0.4%
    Jindal: 0.2%

    DEMS
    Clinton: 53.8%
    Sanders: 22.7%
    Webb: 1.1%
    Chafee: 0.9%
    O’Malley: 0.6%

    General Election

    Carson: 35.2
    Clinton: 44.7 (+9.5)

    Trump: 34.8
    Clinton: 45.9 (+11.1)

    Fiorina: 30.3
    Clinton: 44.9 (+14.6)

    Bush: 30.5
    Clinton: 47 (+16.5)

    http://www.bgsu.edu/content/dam/BGSU/news/2015/10/BGSUPollFindings_Day1.pdf
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. HYUFD, think it's far too earlier to try and make that call. It's possible, but there are years to go yet.
  • Hertsmere_Pubgoer
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Roubaix
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Dominatrix

    Asterix

    This is getting silly.
    MTimT said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Bronx.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Excellent article Nick. As others have said all the better because you don't push your own preference.

    Following on from a comment below, are things in Portugal really as portrayed by the Telegraph with a left wing majority being refused the right to rule because they are Eurosceptic? If so it is a complete scandal but I would like to know how much of a spin the Telegraph has put on things.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p

    Possibly because I've walked the Wessex Ridgeway, and not the Sussex Ridgeway. ;)

    (Sussex technically does have a ridge walk I've done; it's just known as the South Downs Way)
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    Plato_Says said:

    The -sex suffix is from Anglo-Saxon / Old English, with the actual meaning being "Saxon".

    Sussex is essentially "South Saxon".
    Middlesex is "Middle Saxon".
    Essex is "East Saxon".
    Wessex is "West Saxon".​​​​​​​

    It's Herstmonceux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herstmonceux#History

    The name ’’Herstmonceux’’ comes from Anglo-Saxon hyrst, "wooded hill", plus the name of the Monceux family who were lords of the manor here in the 12th century.
    JosiasJessop said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Middlesex, Essex, Wessex ?

    Edit: and Herstmoncux

    In France, Bordeaux, and I think there're several others as well.


    Ah, I apologise profusely for not being able to spell Herstmonahcuxux. ;)
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What do you think of the merging of the two national parks?
    JosiasJessop said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p

    Possibly because I've walked the Wessex Ridgeway, and not the Sussex Ridgeway. ;)

    (Sussex technically does have a ridge walk I've done; it's just known as the South Downs Way)
  • Omnium
    Omnium Posts: 11,764
    I rather like the header "Voters aren’t pay much attention at the moment". Perhaps they're not the only ones :)

    Quite bold of you to use the 'free money' term. Often turns out not to be.
  • frpenkridge
    frpenkridge Posts: 670
    Drax.
  • MP_SE
    MP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited October 2015
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, not so sure.

    If we vote Out (and actually leave...) it might. Or if we vote Out, get some concessions, and are betrayed to stay in, it might.

    But, as I think In will win, that'll be seen as a green light from the most sceptical of nations for lots more lovely, demented integration.

    Besides, the EU has an appalling habit of ignoring referendum results or asking the question repeatedly until the 'right' answer is given.

    It would be a very sorry day for democracy if there was a second referendum after the first had the majority of voters choose to leave the EU.

    1.08 for an 8% return over 18 months is not great. I can get annualised 5% return with little risk to capital and am able to invest a much higher amount than the couple of hundred quid knocking about on the Betfair market.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's like Batmanjellybaby
    JosiasJessop said:

    Plato_Says said:

    The -sex suffix is from Anglo-Saxon / Old English, with the actual meaning being "Saxon".

    Sussex is essentially "South Saxon".
    Middlesex is "Middle Saxon".
    Essex is "East Saxon".
    Wessex is "West Saxon".​​​​​​​

    It's Herstmonceux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herstmonceux#History

    The name ’’Herstmonceux’’ comes from Anglo-Saxon hyrst, "wooded hill", plus the name of the Monceux family who were lords of the manor here in the 12th century.
    JosiasJessop said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Middlesex, Essex, Wessex ?

    Edit: and Herstmoncux

    In France, Bordeaux, and I think there're several others as well.
    Ah, I apologise profusely for not being able to spell Herstmonahcuxux. ;)

  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    Plato_Says said:

    Dominatrix

    Asterix

    This is getting silly.

    MTimT said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Bronx.
    The second-to-last place you'll see: the Styx.

    (Not the band; something's gone wrong if the Styx are the last thing you see.)
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Tyndall, from Wikipedia (so take with a pinch of salt):
    "The leftwing parties, the Socialist Party, CDU, and Left Bloc, argued that as they were willing to form a coalition which would have a majority, they ought to be invited to form the government; Portugal Ahead, as the largest single party, argued that they should be invited to form the government. After three weeks of uncertainty, the President invited Coelho to form a minority government."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Portugal
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    frpenkridge said:

    Drax.

    Bollox. I should've got that one. ;(
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    F1: Race director Charlie Whiting just got taken around in the safety car in the rain.

    Official 30 minute delay to qualifying, possibly a window around then to get in the qualy session before the rain returns.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. SE, it'd be despicable, indefensible and unforgivable.

    F1 qualifying pushed back to 7.30pm.

    I rather hope they cancel qualifying. It may give us an amusing grid, but we'd already have that with the P3 times.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Tyndall, from Wikipedia (so take with a pinch of salt):
    "The leftwing parties, the Socialist Party, CDU, and Left Bloc, argued that as they were willing to form a coalition which would have a majority, they ought to be invited to form the government; Portugal Ahead, as the largest single party, argued that they should be invited to form the government. After three weeks of uncertainty, the President invited Coelho to form a minority government."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Portugal

    So what do they do when Coelho gets voted down in Parliament? Can the President still refuse to offer the Government to the Left?
  • Luckyguy1983
    Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,093
    JEO said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    The previous thread is a lesson in how wrapping yourself up in technicalities and embracing moral relativism means you do not see the wood for trees. The French Resistance were defending liberal democracy against a horrific ethnic cleansing regime, while the Iraqi army were defending a barbaric dictator against an alliance that wanted to implement democracy.

    Exactly. There's a good argument that life for the average Iraqi was less bad under Saddam than under the various monsters who've emerged since his overthrow. But, that doesn't mean that Saddam was not a brute. And that doesn't mean that it was Western forces who victimised Iraqis. It was Saddam and the other monsters who victimised them.

    Yes, people like to talk about X million dead from the Iraq war, but most of those killed were by sectarian Iraqi leaders and Muslim religious zealots. There were certainly times where the USA betrayed her Christian principles, when it comes to torture and the like, but this was a handful of cases among suffering mainly carried out by the USA's opponents.
    So called opponents whom the ouster of Saddam and the dismantling of his state apparatus unleashed. The same thing that happened after Gadaffi. How many times does the US have to make this 'mistake' before we question whether it actually wants a stable Middle East?
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Apart from Renegade, I struggle to think a decent track of theirs.
    JosiasJessop said:

    Plato_Says said:

    Dominatrix

    Asterix

    This is getting silly.

    MTimT said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Bronx.
    The second-to-last place you'll see: the Styx.

    (Not the band; something's gone wrong if the Styx are the last thing you see.)
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Miss Plato, Lethe is very forgettable*.

    *+17 myth points to anyone who gets that.

    Mr. Tyndall, no idea.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, not so sure.

    If we vote Out (and actually leave...) it might. Or if we vote Out, get some concessions, and are betrayed to stay in, it might.

    But, as I think In will win, that'll be seen as a green light from the most sceptical of nations for lots more lovely, demented integration.

    Besides, the EU has an appalling habit of ignoring referendum results or asking the question repeatedly until the 'right' answer is given.

    Though Sweden and Denmark are still outside the Euro having voted No in their referendums on it
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    100 Impressed points you knew that - I didn't
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, Lethe is very forgettable*.

    *+17 myth points to anyone who gets that.

    Mr. Tyndall, no idea.

  • Sunil_Prasannan
    Sunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,077
    Mr Dancer,

    Did you mention Sfax, near a certain Phoenician-descended settlement in North Africa?
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. HYUFD, we'll see whether the eurozone implodes before the pesky Scandinavian voters are giving the opportunity to revise their view.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. HYUFD, think it's far too earlier to try and make that call. It's possible, but there are years to go yet.

    Maybe but No have already had several leads, Yes had not yet had any leads at this stage in Scotland
  • HurstLlama
    HurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    JosiasJessop said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p

    Possibly because I've walked the Wessex Ridgeway, and not the Sussex Ridgeway. ;)

    (Sussex technically does have a ridge walk I've done; it's just known as the South Downs Way)
    Mr. Flaming Picky would like to point out that the South Downs way starts (or ends, I suppose) in Hampshire and is thus not, strictly speaking a Sussex walk.

    < /PendantOff>
  • Malmesbury
    Malmesbury Posts: 55,725
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    JEO said:

    Sean_F said:

    JEO said:

    The previous thread is a lesson in how wrapping yourself up in technicalities and embracing moral relativism means you do not see the wood for trees. The French Resistance were defending liberal democracy against a horrific ethnic cleansing regime, while the Iraqi army were defending a barbaric dictator against an alliance that wanted to implement democracy.

    Exactly. There's a good argument that life for the average Iraqi was less bad under Saddam than under the various monsters who've emerged since his overthrow. But, that doesn't mean that Saddam was not a brute. And that doesn't mean that it was Western forces who victimised Iraqis. It was Saddam and the other monsters who victimised them.

    Yes, people like to talk about X million dead from the Iraq war, but most of those killed were by sectarian Iraqi leaders and Muslim religious zealots. There were certainly times where the USA betrayed her Christian principles, when it comes to torture and the like, but this was a handful of cases among suffering mainly carried out by the USA's opponents.
    So called opponents whom the ouster of Saddam and the dismantling of his state apparatus unleashed. The same thing that happened after Gadaffi. How many times does the US have to make this 'mistake' before we question whether it actually wants a stable Middle East?
    Though I find it interesting that the idea that said "opponents" had no moral agency of their own quite interesting. It means, quite obviously that the Iraqi people can't be held responsible for their own actions. Which in turn means they need someone to act for them...
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Excellent article Nick. As others have said all the better because you don't push your own preference.

    Following on from a comment below, are things in Portugal really as portrayed by the Telegraph with a left wing majority being refused the right to rule because they are Eurosceptic? If so it is a complete scandal but I would like to know how much of a spin the Telegraph has put on things.

    I think it is because the sitting PM says he can form a coalition which can win a confidence vote, it would be like the Tories winning 300 seats in 2010 but Brown as sitting PM forming a government of the losers with the Lib Dems, nationalists, Greens and other minor parties. One of the reasons Cameron made the offer so early and comprehensively to the Lib Dems in 2010 was to avoid the chance of that happening.

    I don't think it is as scandalous as the Telegraph are making out, at least from my understanding.
  • Omnium
    Omnium Posts: 11,764
    A couple of Roman British place names ending in X (oh no, not the Romans again!)

    For example. Deva Victrix (Chester)

    Have a feeling there's a far more famous one, but maybe I'm mistaken. Couldn't find it when I looked, and found the above instead.
  • rcs1000
    rcs1000 Posts: 60,717
    Richard_Tyndall said:

    Excellent article Nick. As others have said all the better because you don't push your own preference.

    Following on from a comment below, are things in Portugal really as portrayed by the Telegraph with a left wing majority being refused the right to rule because they are Eurosceptic? If so it is a complete scandal but I would like to know how much of a spin the Telegraph has put on things.

    According to Portuguese brokers' research, the existing government (like in the UK) has first dibs on continuing. If they are behind on votes and seats, they usually decline, and the President then goes to the second placed party, etc.

    However, in this case Forward Portugal reckons it won't get voted down, because there are a number of PS deputies who are in open revolt at the possibility of a coalition with the more left wing elements. It only requires about 6-9 PS deputies to vote with the government, or (more likely) about half a dozen to abstain.
  • Dair
    Dair Posts: 6,108
    Plato_Says said:

    The -sex suffix is from Anglo-Saxon / Old English, with the actual meaning being "Saxon".

    Sussex is essentially "South Saxon".
    Middlesex is "Middle Saxon".
    Essex is "East Saxon".
    Wessex is "West Saxon".​​​​​​​

    It's Herstmonceux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herstmonceux#History

    And North Saxon became No Sex Please We're British.
  • SimonStClare
    SimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Omnium said:

    A couple of Roman British place names ending in X (oh no, not the Romans again!)

    For example. Deva Victrix (Chester)

    Have a feeling there's a far more famous one, but maybe I'm mistaken. Couldn't find it when I looked, and found the above instead.

    Dominatrix (Hull) Tel 555-2130 :lol:
  • Malmesbury
    Malmesbury Posts: 55,725
    NickPalmer said:

    JEO said:

    This is despicable by the way:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-accused-of-doing-chinas-bidding-after-police-raid-home-of-tiananmen-square-survivor-over-peaceful-a6704911.html

    I understand we need to hold our noses and do business with China, but we should never forget that we are on the side of the democratic activists.

    Agreed. A good job we're watering down that pesky Human Rights Act. Perhaps President Xi had some useful hints for Mr Cameron?

    I'm trolling here, not least as Labour's record wasn't great either, but it's worth all of us keeping in mind that when in power most leaders tend to think that dissidents are a nuisance. As an MP I used to pay a visit each year to the local Amnesty branch, who would always grill me for two hours about what we were doing and not doing, and I still support them, even when I think they're worrying about some undesirable character - it's a bit of nuisance that people in politics need.

    Given that Chinese state visit early in Mr Blair's time in office....

    I rather suspect that this is being caused by flailing around in senior police management. After their "war with the Tory party" collapsed they seem to have completely unglued - alternately trying to kiss arse and scream about how unloved they are.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Dr. Prasannan, are you referring to a settlement, or an alternative spelling of the Numidian king Syphax, who enjoyed prolonged shenanigans with Massinissa in the Second Punic War?

    Incidentally, the Gaul was Ambiorix. As well as the more famous Vercingetorix, he and the Germanian Ariovistus were probably Caesar's principle opponents in Gaul.

    Of course, saying Caesar conquered Gaul is a slight exaggeration, as Gallia Narbonensis was founded decades before he turned up.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    @Morris_Dancer I know you're pretty keen on apex predators - have you seen the Titanoboa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanoboa That's one seriously large snake. C5 had a docu on them and well let's say they're monsters.
    By comparing the sizes and shapes of its fossilized vertebrae to those of extant snakes, researchers estimated that the largest individuals of T. cerrejonensis found had a total length of around 12.8 m (42 ft) and weighed about 1,135 kg (2,500 lb; 1.1 long tons).[1]
  • Hertsmere_Pubgoer
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Dr. Prasannan, are you referring to a settlement, or an alternative spelling of the Numidian king Syphax, who enjoyed prolonged shenanigans with Massinissa in the Second Punic War?

    Incidentally, the Gaul was Ambiorix. As well as the more famous Vercingetorix, he and the Germanian Ariovistus were probably Caesar's principle opponents in Gaul.

    Of course, saying Caesar conquered Gaul is a slight exaggeration, as Gallia Narbonensis was founded decades before he turned up.

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Dr. Prasannan, are you referring to a settlement, or an alternative spelling of the Numidian king Syphax, who enjoyed prolonged shenanigans with Massinissa in the Second Punic War?

    Incidentally, the Gaul was Ambiorix. As well as the more famous Vercingetorix, he and the Germanian Ariovistus were probably Caesar's principle opponents in Gaul.

    Of course, saying Caesar conquered Gaul is a slight exaggeration, as Gallia Narbonensis was founded decades before he turned up.

    Sfax is a fairly grim city in Tunisia. I went through it on a coach in 2001
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Miss Plato, that weight is immense.

    Whilst the length is large some snakes (I'd guess the reticulated python) today are close to that size, but a snake that weighs a ton would be a bugger to fight.

    I used the storm eagle (I think, it was years ago I did the work, and upon checking it was Haast's Eagle) as the basis for the black eagle, which plays a small role in one book of mine:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast's_eagle

    There are times when truth is stranger than fiction. For example, it's possible for a man to be run through with a sword (more easily a rapier than a broadsword, for obvious reasons) and survive. But if you put that in a book it'd seem unrealistic.

    I think it was Twain that said fiction was more realistic than life, because fiction has to make sense :p
  • PBModerator
    PBModerator Posts: 666
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Dr. Prasannan, are you referring to a settlement, or an alternative spelling of the Numidian king Syphax, who enjoyed prolonged shenanigans with Massinissa in the Second Punic War?

    Incidentally, the Gaul was Ambiorix. As well as the more famous Vercingetorix, he and the Germanian Ariovistus were probably Caesar's principle opponents in Gaul.

    Of course, saying Caesar conquered Gaul is a slight exaggeration, as Gallia Narbonensis was founded decades before he turned up.

    Mr Dancer, this place ending in 'X', as per thread-drift :)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sfax
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    HurstLlama said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p

    Possibly because I've walked the Wessex Ridgeway, and not the Sussex Ridgeway. ;)

    (Sussex technically does have a ridge walk I've done; it's just known as the South Downs Way)
    Mr. Flaming Picky would like to point out that the South Downs way starts (or ends, I suppose) in Hampshire and is thus not, strictly speaking a Sussex walk.

    < /PendantOff>
    Doesn't it start/end at Eastbourne, which is most certainly Sussex?

    The end was also moved a couple of decades ago to Winchester in Hampshire from somewhere further east. I can't remember where the old western end was, but I think it was outside Hampshire.

    As an aside, they should just join the Clarendon Way on and extend it west to Salisbury.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    edited October 2015
    Mr. Moderator, it was founded in the 9th century. I've said before that modern history isn't my forte.

    [On that note, I should post a piece about some vicious women from a few thousand years this weekend].

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Pubgoer, we are glad you survived :)
  • MikeK
    MikeK Posts: 9,053
    https://twitter.com/cinebooks/status/657977911320776704

    Great Irish actor.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Dr. Prasannan, are you referring to a settlement, or an alternative spelling of the Numidian king Syphax, who enjoyed prolonged shenanigans with Massinissa in the Second Punic War?

    Incidentally, the Gaul was Ambiorix. As well as the more famous Vercingetorix, he and the Germanian Ariovistus were probably Caesar's principle opponents in Gaul.

    Of course, saying Caesar conquered Gaul is a slight exaggeration, as Gallia Narbonensis was founded decades before he turned up.

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Dr. Prasannan, are you referring to a settlement, or an alternative spelling of the Numidian king Syphax, who enjoyed prolonged shenanigans with Massinissa in the Second Punic War?

    Incidentally, the Gaul was Ambiorix. As well as the more famous Vercingetorix, he and the Germanian Ariovistus were probably Caesar's principle opponents in Gaul.

    Of course, saying Caesar conquered Gaul is a slight exaggeration, as Gallia Narbonensis was founded decades before he turned up.

    Sfax is a fairly grim city in Tunisia. I went through it on a coach in 2001
    Very grim I used to work there and had rather too many run ins with the local police
  • jayfdee
    jayfdee Posts: 618
    Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Just back from a week in Europe's playground where British, German, Italian and French can bond over the breakfast buffet and enjoy the Spanish sunshine. Europe en fete as it were - plenty of coverage about events in Portugal and in Spain Podemos getting plenty of media along with the Citizens' party.

    Interesting to note the changing linguistic order in Mallorca - it's German first, then British with Russian coming a close third. Menus now have Russian sections after the Spanish, German and English.

    With profuse apologies to Nick (excellent piece by the way), something I noticed while driving round was a town called Felanitx and I began to muse on all the places I could think of ENDING in "X" - Appomatox being an obvious example but I started to struggle after that.

    So, my alternative to yet another debate on the EU - can anyone think of places ending in "X" ? I exclude anything with "Cross" by the way as that's just short-hand.

    Roubaix
    Well if we started in Mallorca,it has to be Andratx.
  • JosiasJessop
    JosiasJessop Posts: 46,251
    JosiasJessop said:

    HurstLlama said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Jessop, mildly amused you thought of a 9th century Saxon kingdom, but not Sussex :p

    Possibly because I've walked the Wessex Ridgeway, and not the Sussex Ridgeway. ;)

    (Sussex technically does have a ridge walk I've done; it's just known as the South Downs Way)
    Mr. Flaming Picky would like to point out that the South Downs way starts (or ends, I suppose) in Hampshire and is thus not, strictly speaking a Sussex walk.

    < /PendantOff>
    Doesn't it start/end at Eastbourne, which is most certainly Sussex?

    The end was also moved a couple of decades ago to Winchester in Hampshire from somewhere further east. I can't remember where the old western end was, but I think it was outside Hampshire.

    As an aside, they should just join the Clarendon Way on and extend it west to Salisbury.
    Following up my own post, the South Downs Way used to start at Buriton when it opened in 1972, and was extended to Winchester in the late 1980s.

    I bet that's fascinated everyone.
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Griffin flies are stupendous for mythology and real once https://arthropoda.wordpress.com/category/arthropods/hexapods/protodonatans-griffinflies/
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Miss Plato, that weight is immense.

    Whilst the length is large some snakes (I'd guess the reticulated python) today are close to that size, but a snake that weighs a ton would be a bugger to fight.

    I used the storm eagle (I think, it was years ago I did the work, and upon checking it was Haast's Eagle) as the basis for the black eagle, which plays a small role in one book of mine:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast's_eagle

    There are times when truth is stranger than fiction. For example, it's possible for a man to be run through with a sword (more easily a rapier than a broadsword, for obvious reasons) and survive. But if you put that in a book it'd seem unrealistic.

    I think it was Twain that said fiction was more realistic than life, because fiction has to make sense :p

  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    F1: qualy delayed a further 30 minutes. Now due to start on the hour, 40 mins from now.
  • Richard_Tyndall
    Richard_Tyndall Posts: 33,463
    MikeK said:

    https://twitter.com/cinebooks/status/657977911320776704

    Great Irish actor.

    Ah that's a shame. Wonderful actress. But a good innings.

    RIP.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Sandpit, it's getting a bit silly.
  • NickPalmer
    NickPalmer Posts: 21,724
    edited October 2015
    rcs1000 said:



    According to Portuguese brokers' research, the existing government (like in the UK) has first dibs on continuing. If they are behind on votes and seats, they usually decline, and the President then goes to the second placed party, etc.

    However, in this case Forward Portugal reckons it won't get voted down, because there are a number of PS deputies who are in open revolt at the possibility of a coalition with the more left wing elements. It only requires about 6-9 PS deputies to vote with the government, or (more likely) about half a dozen to abstain.

    Yes, my understanding is that part of the PS feel about the left-wing rivals a bit like the SPD in Germany feels about the Left Party (who similarly include lots of Communists, and they're the moderate wing) - at a pinch willing to govern with them locally, but nationally, oo-er, that's a bit much. I don't think that attitudes to Europe are the big factor in this.

    It's part of a more general issue all over Europe including Britain - how does the moderate left feel about increased support for the more radical left? Do they fight them or work with them? In countries with PR, this is expressed in the form of rival parties to the left, which makes it even harder to love each other after fighting an election than the evidently limited mutual affection felt by Simon Danczuk and Diane Abbott in Britain. And of course we see the same sort of splintering on the right, as evidenced by the head-scratching by centre-right parties over alliances with the Danish People's Party ("oh, all right then") or the Sweden Democrats ("no way").
  • Plato_Says
    Plato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Migrants marching through the night: Incredible thermal images show vast river of humanity snaking for miles through Slovenia

    The thermal imaging pictures show the sheer numbers crossing over the Slovenia border and into Croatia
    Some 58,000 people have arrived in Slovenia in the past week alone after Hungary closed its borders to migrants
    Comes as temper flared and police used tear gas at migrants camps today after fighting broke out between gangs
    Children are being forced to prostitute themselves to pay human traffickers, a new report by the UN has claimed


    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3287510/Refugee-children-resorting-survival-sex-pay-people-smugglers-claims-record-56-000-migrants-land-Greece-just-six-days.html#ixzz3pVls4A6T
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