politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ipsos MORI referendum REMAIN lead drops by an astonishing

HurstLlama said:

Someone with principles to start with and as that knocks Cameron out there isn't much point, in the context of this discussion, in pushing further.

Anyway, I am glad you are on Mr. Jessop as I wanted to ask your advice. What do you know about outdoor clothing from a company called Regatta. I ask because there is a shop near me having a big sale and most of the Regatta stuff is being marked down by 50% (e.g. a pair of boots which was £90 is on offer for £45). I don't suppose I will ever do really serious walking again so I don't need top notch stuff, so do you think that the Regatta range will be suitable?

I've got a couple of Regatta fleeces. They're cheaper than the more high-tech stuff I use on my long walks (not that I do any atm. ), but reasonable enough quality. Weight probably won't be as important for you as it is for me.

I've no experience of the boots at all, and I wouldn't normally consider them for what I do (I'm a Scarpa man), but I've read some good reviews of them. But I always say with boots buy what is comfortable regardless of the price. It's pointless having a cheap pair of boots if they're uncomfortable. But you'll know that.

Regatta are not seen as being 'stylish' (at least amongst my crowd), so they'll always be cheaper than brands that sell equivalent gear with a premium.

MikeL said:

Does anyone know what is happening re reversing the Lords amendment re 16 year olds voting in Local Elections?

Committee Stage in Commons was yesterday and I see no mention of it being reversed. One more day of Committee still to come but I can't see any sign of it on list of amendments.

If they aren't voted on in committee, would it be at second (third) reading?

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative.

Nah, that was Attlee!

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative.

Nah, that was Attlee!

More Empie countries becaime Commonwealth under SuperMac than St Clem. Although if you're talking populations.....

OldKingCole said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative.

Nah, that was Attlee!

More Empie countries becaime Commonwealth under SuperMac than St Clem. Although if you're talking populations.....

Bwahahahaha

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

taffys said:

Just seen a tweet Nuttall may take a run at Oldham.

Does this mean UKIP might fancy their chances?

It would surely be seen as more of a profile booster.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative.

Nah, that was Attlee!

Unsound.

Mr. Jessop, that is plain wrong.

Vampires are the allegorical beast of myth you want, not zombies. The mindless shambling zombies are nothing like the picture you paint (a lich could perhaps be an exception, of course, but liches and zombies are not the same thing).

JEO said:

Freggles said:

JEO said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

If May backs the Out campaign, I think she would become favourite for the next Tory leader.

Interesting either way what Boris does in that scenario. Team up and form an insurgent movement against the PM, or stick with Remain and claim the mantle of Cameronism?

The Cameroons would back Osborne, so Boris would be left between a rock and a hard place. I think if May backed Out everyone else would be squeezed out of a May versus Osborne contest. And this will likely be after a referendum campaign where most Conservatives voted for Leave.

This is why the Cameroons badly need for the referendum campaign to be an honest, conciliatory affair. If it becomes dishonest and divisive, then conservative voters will hold it against the Cameroons as much Labour nationalists held it against Labour after the Scottish referendum. They really can't afford to be seen as sacking eurosceptic ministers, forcing collective responsibility, lying about three million jobs being lost, or calling eurosceptics reactionary or xenophobic.

Couldn't agree more with that last paragraph. Hopefully there are enough undecideds that the arguments are made with evidence and honesty, with ministers campaigning on either side and resigning if they wish afterwards. To do otherwise would leave the country with nothing but divided parties on all sides, then who the hell are we all supposed to vote for in 2020..?

Off now, but people who like Old Who may be interested to know that, at 8pm, on Horror (Freeview channel 70) there's the first appearance of a series favourite.

Also, 9pm on BBC2 there's Last Kingdom. We'll see how that stacks up.

HurstLlama said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

HurstLlama said:

JEO said:

Philip_Thompson said:

This EVEL motion does not go anywhere near far enough. It is no more than English Veto for English Laws. We need English Votes for English Laws.

On issues where the Scots have decided to devolve matters out of Westminster there should be zero votes by Scottish MPs on those matters.

Entirely agree. This proposal does not deserve to be called English votes, when it is merely veto power.

I agree. What does confuse me is why a Conservative government has been so pusillanimous on this matter. It feels to me like Cameron is trying to fob us off with the minimum he thinks he can get away with rather than actually tackling a serious constitutional issue.

Now, my own view is that Cameron is a nasty PR spiv with not a principled bone in his body but people on here keep telling me he is proper Conservative who really does care about more than political power. Actions, as always, speak louder than words and I am damned if I can see why I should shift my opinion of the man.

You are rather confused about your history. A proper Conservative is someone who takes a pragmatic and realistic view. Cameron is bang in the centre of the great tradition of Conservative Prime Ministers, doing the best that can be done in the circumstances. Of course it's a bit of a fudge - most things in the great unwritten British constitution, such as the Salisbury Convention, are.

Drivel, Mr. Nabavi, pure drivel. Very unusual from you but drivel nonetheless.

Edited extra bit: You edited and added to your post after I replied.

You naughty naughty boy

taffys said:

''I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous"

Not great for tories though. PM going head to head with his own Home Secretary. Ugly.

Wouldn't happen in the Labour party

Sandpit said:

taffys said:

''Actions, as always, speak louder than words and I am damned if I can see why I should shift my opinion of the man. ''

To be honest, I'm struggling to think of a situation where more than a veto would be necessary.

Because there are two different scenarios where EV4EL may apply, and the current proposal only deals with one of those scenarios - that where there is a UK majority but not an English majority for a piece of legislation then the English PMs can 'Veto' it.

The scenario not covered by the proposal is that where there is a clear English majority in favour of something but not a UK majority, such as allowing fox hunting. The 'Veto' there doesn't work because it's the final vote (of all UK PMs) where the legislation will fail to pass.

The test would be could the Conservatives alone have got something through 2010-15, when they had an overall majority in England? A real English Parliament would also have allowed the Conservatives to propose legislation in England as the govt, even if in the UK they had been the opposition to a hypothetical rainbow coalition.

Softly softly catchee monkey

''Regatta are not seen as being 'stylish' (at least amongst my crowd), so they'll always be cheaper than brands that sell equivalent gear with a premium.''

I'm lucky that cheap gear seems to suit me. Karrimor boots are pretty cheap but I think they're very comfortable as long as you get the one with waterproofing and Vibram sole.

JEO said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative. That R A Butler fellow must have been some kind of pinko, what with the 1944 Education Act and all that. Ted Heath was of course beyond the pale. Willie Whitelaw? Nah, far too wet. William Hague? No, he's a Cameroon.

Maggie, do I hear? What, the minister who presided over the closure of so many grammar schools?

Margaret Thatcher was certainly much more consistently conservative than David Cameron. I disagree with HurstLlama. David Cameron I think is instinctively conservative, but more in the respect that he would never want to upset the apple cart, rather than in pushing for conservative principles to be upheld.

Thatcher was a classical liberal. She was not a conservative.

Casino_Royale said:

JEO said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative. That R A Butler fellow must have been some kind of pinko, what with the 1944 Education Act and all that. Ted Heath was of course beyond the pale. Willie Whitelaw? Nah, far too wet. William Hague? No, he's a Cameroon.

Maggie, do I hear? What, the minister who presided over the closure of so many grammar schools?

Margaret Thatcher was certainly much more consistently conservative than David Cameron. I disagree with HurstLlama. David Cameron I think is instinctively conservative, but more in the respect that he would never want to upset the apple cart, rather than in pushing for conservative principles to be upheld.

As usual, I agree with JEO 100% on this.

Thatcher was a Radical, not a Conservative.

The strength of the Conservative Party is its ability to change.

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Jessop, that is plain wrong.

Vampires are the allegorical beast of myth you want, not zombies. The mindless shambling zombies are nothing like the picture you paint (a lich could perhaps be an exception, of course, but liches and zombies are not the same thing).

Surely a wight not a lich?

Charles said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Jessop, that is plain wrong.

Vampires are the allegorical beast of myth you want, not zombies. The mindless shambling zombies are nothing like the picture you paint (a lich could perhaps be an exception, of course, but liches and zombies are not the same thing).

Surely a wight not a lich?

Wraith!

Casino_Royale said:

MP_SE said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

And yet she was playing the identity politics game with the police today.

Sadly, I think her politics on EU and the immigration are opportunist. I wouldn't necessarily mind that, provided she did something about it.

I only trust her marginally more than Boris. Mainly because she works hard and isn't afraid to go against advice.

I can't see it either, but, like death and taxes, a new Cons leader is inevitable and it has to be someone. It is currently a known unknown, well this gives us 329 to choose from.

Is there an unknown unknown someone extraordinary gets parachuted as MP ok it's possible. Parachuted in then straight to leader & thence PM? Hmm.

There's no Dan Jarvis-type a raving sensible island in an otherwise bonkers sea; so that, sadly, leaves the existing front-runners.

No to Boris who will fail, just as Lab did at the GE, because sensible people will sober up and reject the very idea; no to Gove, too untelegenic (sad but true); no to May (IMO, I may be biased) because she will be shot as the nasty messenger; no to Hammond as a boring white guy although not crazy idea; one of the front bench wimmin? - Amber could do it, Justine no - but quite far out.

Which leaves Sajid or Jeremy. Jeremy is getting every kind of stick about junior doctors so may prove toxic.

Which leaves Sajid.

Suck that OEs - now it's muslim immigrant stock that occupies the top offices of state.

MP_SE said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

The most worrying part of that article for me is this:

"Other Tories dismiss their party’s stated aim of bringing immigration down to tens of thousands a year as silly and unachievable, but May believes in it."

If that's true, I'm in the wrong party.

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Charles said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Jessop, that is plain wrong.

Vampires are the allegorical beast of myth you want, not zombies. The mindless shambling zombies are nothing like the picture you paint (a lich could perhaps be an exception, of course, but liches and zombies are not the same thing).

Surely a wight not a lich?

Wraith!

The Wraith Coupe is a decent motor ....

Edit .... The Phantom Coupe is better ....

JEO said:

Casino_Royale said:

MP_SE said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

The most worrying part of that article for me is this:

"Other Tories dismiss their party’s stated aim of bringing immigration down to tens of thousands a year as silly and unachievable, but May believes in it."

If that's true, I'm in the wrong party.

The vast majority of the party voters and activists agree with you. The MPs are just our representatives. Make sure you take part in local hustings and the next leadership election if you disagree with them.

Thanks. I'm going to a victory dinner on Sat 7th Nov and might do a bit of canvassing there on this.

I might also write to my MP.

I'd vote May, rather than Osborne. He's just not appealing. I consider myself on the Cameron/Gove side of the Party.

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

MP_SE said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

And yet she was playing the identity politics game with the police today.

Sadly, I think her politics on EU and the immigration are opportunist. I wouldn't necessarily mind that, provided she did something about it.

I only trust her marginally more than Boris. Mainly because she works hard and isn't afraid to go against advice.

I can't see it either, but, like death and taxes, a new Cons leader is inevitable and it has to be someone. It is currently a known unknown, well this gives us 329 to choose from.

Is there an unknown unknown someone extraordinary gets parachuted as MP ok it's possible. Parachuted in then straight to leader & thence PM? Hmm.

There's no Dan Jarvis-type a raving sensible island in an otherwise bonkers sea; so that, sadly, leaves the existing front-runners.

No to Boris who will fail, just as Lab did at the GE, because sensible people will sober up and reject the very idea; no to Gove, too untelegenic (sad but true); no to May (IMO, I may be biased) because she will be shot as the nasty messenger; no to Hammond as a boring white guy although not crazy idea; one of the front bench wimmin? - Amber could do it, Justine no - but quite far out.

Which leaves Sajid or Jeremy. Jeremy is getting every kind of stick about junior doctors so may prove toxic.

Which leaves Sajid.

Suck that OEs - now it's muslim immigrant stock that occupies the top offices of state.

If it came down to a membership vote between Osborne and May, I would vote May.

I might also but would only be doing it to put some grit in the oyster.

HurstLlama said:

JosiasJessop said:

HurstLlama said:

Someone with principles to start with and as that knocks Cameron out there isn't much point, in the context of this discussion, in pushing further.

Anyway, I am glad you are on Mr. Jessop as I wanted to ask your advice. What do you know about outdoor clothing from a company called Regatta. I ask because there is a shop near me having a big sale and most of the Regatta stuff is being marked down by 50% (e.g. a pair of boots which was £90 is on offer for £45). I don't suppose I will ever do really serious walking again so I don't need top notch stuff, so do you think that the Regatta range will be suitable?

I've got a couple of Regatta fleeces. They're cheaper than the more high-tech stuff I use on my long walks (not that I do any atm. ), but reasonable enough quality. Weight probably won't be as important for you as it is for me.

I've no experience of the boots at all, and I wouldn't normally consider them for what I do (I'm a Scarpa man), but I've read some good reviews of them. But I always say with boots buy what is comfortable regardless of the price. It's pointless having a cheap pair of boots if they're uncomfortable. But you'll know that.

Regatta are not seen as being 'stylish' (at least amongst my crowd), so they'll always be cheaper than brands that sell equivalent gear with a premium.

Thanks for that, Mr. J.. I don't suppose I'll now ever do more than wander daytrips over the Downs and maybe the Devonshire moors (in good weather, mind). So, based on what you say, the Regatta kit will probably do for me.

Thanks again.

If you are looking for a waterproof jacket and don't mind cam pattern these are outstanding quality for the price.

http://forcesuniformandkit.com/collections/all-army-surplus-jackets-and-coats/products/french-army-surplus-cce-camo-gore-tex-jacket

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0220/2076/products/french_camo_goretex_jacket_ab_front_c_1024x1024.jpg?v=1443440257

JEO said:

JosiasJessop said:

JEO said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative. That R A Butler fellow must have been some kind of pinko, what with the 1944 Education Act and all that. Ted Heath was of course beyond the pale. Willie Whitelaw? Nah, far too wet. William Hague? No, he's a Cameroon.

Maggie, do I hear? What, the minister who presided over the closure of so many grammar schools?

Margaret Thatcher was certainly much more consistently conservative than David Cameron. I disagree with HurstLlama. David Cameron I think is instinctively conservative, but more in the respect that he would never want to upset the apple cart, rather than in pushing for conservative principles to be upheld.

This is the sort of thing that perplexes me. Surely the reason the Conservative Party has survived for so long is that the principles it holds have altered over time. Would Chamberlain or Churchill have supported Thatcher's policies, yet alone Andrew Bonar Law?

Labour went through a similar process of change with New Labour. As the party is now well over 100 years old, it's developed dementia under Corbyn and is trapped permanently in its youth.

Whereas the Conservative Party is a zombie party: it survives by renewing itself by killing other parties and drinking their policies.

And the Lib Dems are spotty students (think Rick from the Young Ones).

So if the alternative to the Conservative party was a Stalinist one, you think the Conservatives should adopt Stalinist policies to stay in power?

I am very content to adapt to change and listen to arguments made by others and adopt them as necessary. The difference between you and I seems to be that I don't see that as the be-all and end-all. My ultimate aim is the achievement and maintenance of a conservative society of individual ownership, freedom and personal responsibility. Some times you do that by co-opting others, sometimes you do it by tipping over the apple cart. Neither are good things of themselves, but merely means to an end.

No, moving to a Stalinist position in one go would be too much. But look at how much of what the left were asking for in the 1920s were asking for has been implemented, and is now firmly supported by the Conservative Party.

Yet alone the Monster Raving Loony Party's manifestos ...

Society changes, and the Conservatives have changed with it, many times over.

And BTW, I'm not a Conservative.

Plato_Says said:

I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are.

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

When I was an undergrad, back in the mid-90s, I just used my spare Wednesday afternoons to explore London's Tube and Rail network - only out to Travelcard Zone 4 back in those days

''I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are. ''

'Twas ever thus. I remember universities appointing Winston Silcott Vice Chancellor in the 1980s.

Plato_Says said:

I'd vote May, rather than Osborne. He's just not appealing. I consider myself on the Cameron/Gove side of the Party.

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

TOPPING said:

Casino_Royale said:

MP_SE said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

And yet she was playing the identity politics game with the police today.

Sadly, I think her politics on EU and the immigration are opportunist. I wouldn't necessarily mind that, provided she did something about it.

I only trust her marginally more than Boris. Mainly because she works hard and isn't afraid to go against advice.

I can't see it either, but, like death and taxes, a new Cons leader is inevitable and it has to be someone. It is currently a known unknown, well this gives us 329 to choose from.

Is there an unknown unknown someone extraordinary gets parachuted as MP ok it's possible. Parachuted in then straight to leader & thence PM? Hmm.

There's no Dan Jarvis-type a raving sensible island in an otherwise bonkers sea; so that, sadly, leaves the existing front-runners.

No to Boris who will fail, just as Lab did at the GE, because sensible people will sober up and reject the very idea; no to Gove, too untelegenic (sad but true); no to May (IMO, I may be biased) because she will be shot as the nasty messenger; no to Hammond as a boring white guy although not crazy idea; one of the front bench wimmin? - Amber could do it, Justine no - but quite far out.

Which leaves Sajid or Jeremy. Jeremy is getting every kind of stick about junior doctors so may prove toxic.

Which leaves Sajid.

Suck that OEs - now it's muslim immigrant stock that occupies the top offices of state.

If it came down to a membership vote between Osborne and May, I would vote May.

I might also but would only be doing it to put some grit in the oyster.

I just don't think he has that loveability factor. Even EdM wasn't beyond laughing at himself. Does GO have a sense of humour?

Sajid.

Radical feminism - usual bollox imho.

The women's movement is back pedalling like hell. As marriage rates plummet and more and more women face a life alone (28% of over 40s according to the Mail today), those gears are getting slammed into reverse.

See the Spectator cover, the end of feminism (paraphrase 'stop this for f8cks sake')

It turns out that, astonishingly, many men don;t like feminists.

taffys said:

Radical feminism - usual bollox imho.

The women's movement is back pedalling like hell. As marriage rates plummet and more and more women face a life alone (28% of over 40s according to the Mail today), those gears are getting slammed into reverse.

It turns out that, astonishingly, many men don;t like feminists.

Nothing wrong with a woman seeking equality. Why should they be treated differently?

But this crap about cis and trans and queer and questionning and the virtue signalling and the witchnon-gendered-magic-practioner-hunts. Just go away and lock yourself in an airtight room. Waste your remaining breath wailing about how vindicated you feel about being persecuted. And that goes for the ultra-PC, emasculated, wet-fart male fellow-travellers too.

First exhibit for the prosection: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33278165/we-know-what-lgbt-means-but-heres-what-lgbtqqiaap-stands-for

Aaaand breathe....

*claps*

Anorak said:

taffys said:

Radical feminism - usual bollox imho.

The women's movement is back pedalling like hell. As marriage rates plummet and more and more women face a life alone (28% of over 40s according to the Mail today), those gears are getting slammed into reverse.

It turns out that, astonishingly, many men don;t like feminists.

Nothing wrong with a woman seeking equality. Why should they be treated differently?

But this crap about cis and trans and queer and questionning and the virtue signalling and the witchnon-gendered-magic-practioner-hunts. Just go away and lock yourself in an airtight room. Waste your remaining breath wailing about how vindicated you feel about being persecuted. And that goes for the ultra-PC, emasculated, wet-fart male fellow-travellers too.

First exhibit for the prosection: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/33278165/we-know-what-lgbt-means-but-heres-what-lgbtqqiaap-stands-for

Aaaand breathe....

JosiasJessop said:

JEO said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

That Harold Macmillan chap - he dismantled the Empire, so he certainly wasn't a proper Conservative. That R A Butler fellow must have been some kind of pinko, what with the 1944 Education Act and all that. Ted Heath was of course beyond the pale. Willie Whitelaw? Nah, far too wet. William Hague? No, he's a Cameroon.

Maggie, do I hear? What, the minister who presided over the closure of so many grammar schools?

Margaret Thatcher was certainly much more consistently conservative than David Cameron. I disagree with HurstLlama. David Cameron I think is instinctively conservative, but more in the respect that he would never want to upset the apple cart, rather than in pushing for conservative principles to be upheld.

This is the sort of thing that perplexes me. Surely the reason the Conservative Party has survived for so long is that the principles it holds have altered over time. Would Chamberlain or Churchill have supported Thatcher's policies, yet alone Andrew Bonar Law?

Labour went through a similar process of change with New Labour. As the party is now well over 100 years old, it's developed dementia under Corbyn and is trapped permanently in its youth.

Whereas the Conservative Party is a zombie party: it survives by renewing itself by killing other parties and drinking their policies.

And the Lib Dems are spotty students (think Rick from the Young Ones).

Rick from the Young Ones became Tony Blair....

Plato_Says said:

I've visited several seaside towns unintentionally... Bognor, St Leonards - never got as far as Southampton but that was pure luck

JosiasJessop said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Plato_Says said:

I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are.

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

When I was an undergrad, back in the mid-90s, I just used my spare Wednesday afternoons to explore London's Tube and Rail network - only out to Travelcard Zone 4 back in those days

When I was a student in London in the early 1990s, I often explored London's Tube and Rail network by accident, by falling asleep on the train. Something I believe has happened to one of PB's finest as well.

Although sometimes it was just stupidity: my first ever visit to Cambridge was when I got on a non-stopper from Kings X instead of a stopper. I was visiting my GF, and she was not happy when I turned up a few hours late ...

O'Reillyitis is clearly infectious ....

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

I don't know why the minister of state for universities doesn't make a statement to all university unions and the NUS publicly rebuking all this nonsense and imploring them to defend the right of free speech.

JackW said:

Plato_Says said:

I've visited several seaside towns unintentionally... Bognor, St Leonards - never got as far as Southampton but that was pure luck

JosiasJessop said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Plato_Says said:

I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are.

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

When I was an undergrad, back in the mid-90s, I just used my spare Wednesday afternoons to explore London's Tube and Rail network - only out to Travelcard Zone 4 back in those days

When I was a student in London in the early 1990s, I often explored London's Tube and Rail network by accident, by falling asleep on the train. Something I believe has happened to one of PB's finest as well.

Although sometimes it was just stupidity: my first ever visit to Cambridge was when I got on a non-stopper from Kings X instead of a stopper. I was visiting my GF, and she was not happy when I turned up a few hours late ...

O'Reillyitis is clearly infectious ....

I ended up having to doss down in Hitchin station after falling asleep on the last train after a firm's xmas party.

MP_SE said:

Casino_Royale said:

MP_SE said:

Danny565 said:

Possible game-changer for the EU Referendum: Theresa May could back the "Out" campaign

http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/10/is-theresa-may-gearing-up-to-lead-the-eu-no-campaign/

I think the conclusion towards the end is sound: she is the kind of intelligent, credible, reassuring figure who could make Brexit seem a lot less "dangerous".

Would explain why she will not back down on getting immigration down to the tens of thousands. When the time comes, May can argue that the only way to get control of our borders is to leave the EU.

The most worrying part of that article for me is this:

"Other Tories dismiss their party’s stated aim of bringing immigration down to tens of thousands a year as silly and unachievable, but May believes in it."

If that's true, I'm in the wrong party.

This is not an issue exclusive to the Tories. You only have to look at Corbyn's victory to realise Labour MPs are out of touch with their membership too. Quite disappointing, no wonder people are so disinterested with politics.

It's a reflection of the sort of people who become MPs - they increasingly move in a common public policy circle and are metropolitan, urban and affluently middle-class.

Will have a looksee - thnx

perdix said:

@Plato - I also prefer May to Ozzie but he comes across more human in this interview with Moore about the book on Maggie.... It's a long video but worth watching imo.
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/modevents/item/margaret-thatcher-everything-she-wants-charles-moore-in-conversation-with-george-osborne

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

JackW said:

Plato_Says said:

I've visited several seaside towns unintentionally... Bognor, St Leonards - never got as far as Southampton but that was pure luck

JosiasJessop said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Plato_Says said:

I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are.

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

When I was an undergrad, back in the mid-90s, I just used my spare Wednesday afternoons to explore London's Tube and Rail network - only out to Travelcard Zone 4 back in those days

When I was a student in London in the early 1990s, I often explored London's Tube and Rail network by accident, by falling asleep on the train. Something I believe has happened to one of PB's finest as well.

Although sometimes it was just stupidity: my first ever visit to Cambridge was when I got on a non-stopper from Kings X instead of a stopper. I was visiting my GF, and she was not happy when I turned up a few hours late ...

O'Reillyitis is clearly infectious ....

I ended up having to doss down in Hitchin station after falling asleep on the last train after a firm's xmas party.

A friend (and notorious non-drinking) friend of mine ended up in carriage sidings near Peterborough station a few years back after falling asleep. He ended up having to call the police as he had no way of opening the doors, yet alone getting back to the station.

It was treated as a fairly serious event, rather to the embarrassment of my friend.

Just so everyone knows, I've written a little Python script that automatically "counts" every time a poster uses the phrases "virtue signalling" or "peak [x]".

Right now, I'm thinking everyone should be allowed to use these phrases once... a year or so. Any more, and there will be an automatic (temporary) ban.

I've not actually put this live yet, but I'm sorely tempted...

JosiasJessop said:

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

JackW said:

Plato_Says said:

I've visited several seaside towns unintentionally... Bognor, St Leonards - never got as far as Southampton but that was pure luck

JosiasJessop said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Plato_Says said:

I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are.

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

When I was an undergrad, back in the mid-90s, I just used my spare Wednesday afternoons to explore London's Tube and Rail network - only out to Travelcard Zone 4 back in those days

When I was a student in London in the early 1990s, I often explored London's Tube and Rail network by accident, by falling asleep on the train. Something I believe has happened to one of PB's finest as well.

Although sometimes it was just stupidity: my first ever visit to Cambridge was when I got on a non-stopper from Kings X instead of a stopper. I was visiting my GF, and she was not happy when I turned up a few hours late ...

O'Reillyitis is clearly infectious ....

I ended up having to doss down in Hitchin station after falling asleep on the last train after a firm's xmas party.

A friend (and notorious non-drinking) friend of mine ended up in carriage sidings near Peterborough station a few years back after falling asleep. He ended up having to call the police as he had no way of opening the doors, yet alone getting back to the station.

It was treated as a fairly serious event, rather to the embarrassment of my friend.

Surely the "train manager" (ugh) is supposed to check the train is empty before leaving??

JosiasJessop said:

A friend (and notorious non-drinking) friend of mine ended up in carriage sidings near Peterborough station a few years back after falling asleep. He ended up having to call the police as he had no way of opening the doors, yet alone getting back to the station.

It was treated as a fairly serious event, rather to the embarrassment of my friend.

There are some track bashers who would have been delighted to tick of the siding!

Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:

JackW said:

Plato_Says said:

I've visited several seaside towns unintentionally... Bognor, St Leonards - never got as far as Southampton but that was pure luck

JosiasJessop said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

Plato_Says said:

I continue to be appalled at how small minded students are.

Anorak said:

From the BBC's parliament live blog:

Cardiff University's Women's Officer has launched a petition to ban Germaine Greer from speaking at the university in November.

Rachel Melhuish, the Women's Officer at Cardiff University Student's Union launched the petition because she believes the speaker is "trans-exclusionary"

Someone needs a history lesson. Honestly, f*cking students, eh.

When I was an undergrad, back in the mid-90s, I just used my spare Wednesday afternoons to explore London's Tube and Rail network - only out to Travelcard Zone 4 back in those days

When I was a student in London in the early 1990s, I often explored London's Tube and Rail network by accident, by falling asleep on the train. Something I believe has happened to one of PB's finest as well.

Although sometimes it was just stupidity: my first ever visit to Cambridge was when I got on a non-stopper from Kings X instead of a stopper. I was visiting my GF, and she was not happy when I turned up a few hours late ...

O'Reillyitis is clearly infectious ....

I ended up having to doss down in Hitchin station after falling asleep on the last train after a firm's xmas party.

Whilst I'm sure Hitchen Station has many delights, you clearly had only a minor dose of "Hersham Clap" - the full effects of which deliver the patient to the more exotic climes of the south coast Riviera.

RobD said:

rcs1000 said:

Just so everyone knows, I've written a little Python script that automatically "counts" every time a poster uses the phrases "virtue signalling" or "peak [x]".

Right now, I'm thinking everyone should be allowed to use these phrases once... a year or so. Any more, and there will be an automatic (temporary) ban.

I've not actually put this live yet, but I'm sorely tempted...

Has "PB Tory/Tories" made the cut?
Unspoofable has fallen out of fashion these days...

I think you've reached peak virtue signalling of your scripting skills

MP_SE said:

I find this sentence hidden away in the depths of the article particularly amusing:

It confirmed agreements to refrain from cyber-espionage and to liberalise visa regimes and called for the 'swift' launch of a feasibility study for a China/EU Free Trade Agreement...

Outside of the EU we would likely be able to sign an FTA with China. Remaining in the EU we will not sign an FTA so long as countries such as Italy and France continue with their policy of protectionism and isolationism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3283556/The-Queen-Prince-Philip-bid-farewell-Chinese-President-Lady.html

I wish this were true. Unfortunately, China has shown no evidence of wishing to free up its services or financial industries. Take Switzerland's free trade agreement with China, that basically excludes banking, finance, and service industries. But it does cut the tariff on Swiss watches exported to China from 11.5% to 5% over the next ten years.