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malcolmg said:

Dair said:

HurstLlama said:

malcolmg said:

isam said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Do I need to know what a cisgender man is, or is this something I can continue to live happily in ignorance of?

I think it means someone who lives their life as if they are the sex that they are

How do you live otherwise, surely you are what you are, or am I missing something. When I was a lad we just had boys and girls.

Oh dear, Mr. G., I am afraid that post indicates the sort of dreadful, old fashioned authoritarian thinking that has no place the brave new UK of the 21st century. You need to attend a diversity re-education camp. I am sure young Dair will know where the nearest one to you can be found. Until you have completed your training it would probably best if you did not post anymore, at least on any subject more controvesial than pussy cats.

You perhaps miss the benefit of cisgender.

I can specify a preference for cisgender females and not end up making any potentially embarrassing mistakes.

It is a VERY useful term.

So from Bev's post is a cisgender female one that thinks she is a female, or are you a female and I have it all back to front

Cisgender means born female and identifies as female. Of course this cisgender female could be straight or gay or something in between, mind.

Incidentally, when Theresa May increased the maximum penalties of employers for taking on illegal immigrants, Yvette Cooper's complaint was that the government wasn't being draconian enough:

But according to Labour, fewer employers have been fined for employing illegal immigrants since 2010 and £40m of fines have gone uncollected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26964901

See also:

She will also describe Labour’s plans to increase the fine for employing illegal migrants by a third to at least £30,000, and introduce an escalator system for more serious offences, meaning that serial offenders would face even higher fines.

http://leftfootforward.org/2015/03/the-tories-have-failed-to-crack-down-on-illegal-immigration/

Beverley_C said:

Casino_Royale said:

In terms of numbers we are a majority (51%) but in terms of equality? Not even close...

What are the issues that you see, Beverley?

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It just never stops and the message comes through loud and clear - my role is the lesser one or the subservient one. Even the way I have to phrase things - if I give orders to men they look at me with that blank expression, on the other hand if I rephrase it as a genteel request "Excuse me, but would you please do ..... " then things get done. Note that I have not even attempted to bring ethnic issues of violence against women into this - FGM, honour killings, forced marriage, a woman's testimony being 1/4 of a mans - but that is there, part of the background.

I do not let any of it hold me back, but it is there all the time.

Thanks Beverley. I appreciate that.

I don't have a huge amount of time to respond. But my mother told me that she had (or was obliged to) leave the Foreign Office in 1980 due to such limited career options because she got married.

That's such a short time ago.

Strangely though, my father won custody of his daughter from his first marriage in the family courts in the late 1970s through his innate responsibility, stable professional career and ability to charm the judge.

I recognise the whole secretary thing and I hope that will change in time as more women enter the professions. It is still a problem in construction almost by inertia precisely because so few women are engineers and, of those that are, most are PAs. But that's no excuse.

I've also had other women tell me that they can make a point in a meeting, only for it to be semi-ignored. Later on, a man says "earlier on someone said this - thought that was a good point" but have no clue it was 'The Woman'. Also the patronising 'good girl' stuff.

My wife has also mentioned getting propositioned all the time on social and professional media, which obviously disturbs me. I didn't appreciate the extent of the whole 'getting touched up by random strangers on public transport' stuff either, which is extremely creepy.

I get all of that - my beef is with feminism that makes men the enemy, insists on a female James Bond, says that quotas and positive discrimination are the answer to the problem, polices male-to-male bonding rituals, and aims to effectively prevent, or punish, men who approach women where they do have an attraction to them when it's not clear that it would be inappropriate or unwelcome.

Alanbrooke said:

HurstLlama said:

malcolmg said:

HurstLlama said:

malcolmg said:

isam said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Do I need to know what a cisgender man is, or is this something I can continue to live happily in ignorance of?

I think it means someone who lives their life as if they are the sex that they are

How do you live otherwise, surely you are what you are, or am I missing something. When I was a lad we just had boys and girls.

Oh dear, Mr. G., I am afraid that post indicates the sort of dreadful, old fashioned authoritarian thinking that has no place the brave new UK of the 21st century. You need to attend a diversity re-education camp. I am sure young Dair will know where the nearest one to you can be found. Until you have completed your training it would probably best if you did not post anymore, at least on any subject more controvesial than pussy cats.

Hurst , I have to say at times nowadays I feel like a dinosaur, life was so much easier when we were young.

And a lot more fun, Mr. G. Or will that be Mrs. G., today? Not sure how you're identifying these days.

I tried sorting out some money stuff for my wife the other week and the person on the end refused to talk to me for data protection reasons. I hung up and phoned back, introducing myself as Mrs Lama and they were more than happy to deal with me. Getting in touch with your feminine side can sometimes be useful.

However, for all young Dair, non-gender specific poster of this parish, might say, for 99.9% of the population life still goes on with boys and girls and the very rare exception, just as it has for millennia. Best for the likes of you and I not to worry about it.

did you change into your tight shorts when you made the second call

Nope, I just introduced myself as Mrs Llama and they were quite happy. Perhaps they have lots of ladies with deep, whisky ravaged, voices ringing them up.

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Dair said:

HurstLlama said:

malcolmg said:

isam said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Do I need to know what a cisgender man is, or is this something I can continue to live happily in ignorance of?

I think it means someone who lives their life as if they are the sex that they are

How do you live otherwise, surely you are what you are, or am I missing something. When I was a lad we just had boys and girls.

Oh dear, Mr. G., I am afraid that post indicates the sort of dreadful, old fashioned authoritarian thinking that has no place the brave new UK of the 21st century. You need to attend a diversity re-education camp. I am sure young Dair will know where the nearest one to you can be found. Until you have completed your training it would probably best if you did not post anymore, at least on any subject more controvesial than pussy cats.

You perhaps miss the benefit of cisgender.

I can specify a preference for cisgender females and not end up making any potentially embarrassing mistakes.

It is a VERY useful term.

So from Bev's post is a cisgender female one that thinks she is a female, or are you a female and I have it all back to front

malc if you have it all back to front I suspect you're transgender.

Alan, my wife calls me a lot worse than that often

tlg86 said:

Given all the posturing from Osborne, May and Johnson I was wondering who the Jim Hacker of the Tory Party currently is. Hacker was party chairman in the TV series but I see the current Tory Party Chairman is a Lord, but the deputy is Robert Halfon. Am I right in thinking that I've seen his name tipped as an outsider on here?

I've definitely seen him mentioned as one to watch, and an atypical Tory at that, though no more than an outsider for sure.

Alanbrooke said:

HurstLlama said:

malcolmg said:

HurstLlama said:

malcolmg said:

isam said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Do I need to know what a cisgender man is, or is this something I can continue to live happily in ignorance of?

I think it means someone who lives their life as if they are the sex that they are

How do you live otherwise, surely you are what you are, or am I missing something. When I was a lad we just had boys and girls.

Oh dear, Mr. G., I am afraid that post indicates the sort of dreadful, old fashioned authoritarian thinking that has no place the brave new UK of the 21st century. You need to attend a diversity re-education camp. I am sure young Dair will know where the nearest one to you can be found. Until you have completed your training it would probably best if you did not post anymore, at least on any subject more controvesial than pussy cats.

Hurst , I have to say at times nowadays I feel like a dinosaur, life was so much easier when we were young.

And a lot more fun, Mr. G. Or will that be Mrs. G., today? Not sure how you're identifying these days.

I tried sorting out some money stuff for my wife the other week and the person on the end refused to talk to me for data protection reasons. I hung up and phoned back, introducing myself as Mrs Lama and they were more than happy to deal with me. Getting in touch with your feminine side can sometimes be useful.

However, for all young Dair, non-gender specific poster of this parish, might say, for 99.9% of the population life still goes on with boys and girls and the very rare exception, just as it has for millennia. Best for the likes of you and I not to worry about it.

did you change into your tight shorts when you made the second call

My wife has threatened me with having to cook a meal. I have little or no feminine side as I have reached this age and would still struggle to use a washing machine or cook a meal, though I do load the dishwasher and clean the loos on occasion. I do all the manly outdoor tasks however and wash the car, carry shopping and such like.

NickPalmer said:

Beverley_C said:

Things are better now than they were even a few decades ago. In the 1970s women were often still regarded as chattels socially and sometimes legalistically. I was at the receiving end of that when my father made us homeless and it turned out that legally he could do it with impunity. Children and women had less say than he did and I was only a teenager. My mother took years to get over it.
...

- A few months ago I was in a meeting, me and two blokes, were we where looking at hiring new staff for technical positions. One bloke told the other that a woman had applied to which the second one said that he had reservations since women tended to involve others in their decision making and as a result held others back in their work. Neither of them took any notice of me, only three feet away. So I asked "Are you two serious?" and they both looked at me "About what?" they said, genuinely baffled. I walked away from that contract two days later citing that meeting as one of my reasons (there were others).

- I once had someone I barely knew give me some dirty washing because, being a woman, I could figure out how the washing machine worked.

- Being followed along the street and asked for sex .....



I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It just never stops and the message comes through loud and clear - my role is the lesser one or the subservient one. Even the way I have to phrase things - if I give orders to men they look at me with that blank expression, on the other hand if I rephrase it as a genteel request "Excuse me, but would you please do ..... " then things get done. Note that I have not even attempted to bring ethnic issues of violence against women into this - FGM, honour killings, forced marriage, a woman's testimony being 1/4 of a mans - but that is there, part of the background.

I do not let any of it hold me back, but it is there all the time.

Pretty sobering stuff - a lot of us are sympathetic in theory, but not really aware of the extent of this crap in practice. I think it varies a lot by environment - most of the things you describe would have been cause for a formal warning in the places I've worked. I once got reprimanded in a previous job for saying to someone that "One of our attractive staff will make the presentation" - the staff member complained, reasonably enough, that it wasn't up to me to say if she was attractive. But that pales compared to your experiences.

I think a lot of it comes down to good behaviour, and respect.

However, we all put our foot in it occasionally. I certainly have.

isam said:

Wings over Scotland is the 'Weekly Wanker' in this blog...

http://athousandflowers.net/2013/09/01/weekly-wanker-017-wings-over-scotland/

The Rev was that wanker in Sep 2013, though I'm sure he'd happily admit to subsequent wankerdom. His twitter bio does quote the description 'necessary wanker' after all.

A more recent post on Athousandflowers might give some of those over-sensitive types getting aerated about the use of the word 'loyalist' pause for thought.

'Far-right Extremists Open “Community Hub” in Glasgow’s East End

An extremist far-right group behind a series of provocative demonstrations in Glasgow has opened a self-styled “community hub” in Dennistoun, around a mile east of the city centre. The shopfront unit has been opened on Hillfoot Street by the Regimental Blues, a loyalist street movement which maintains a strong social media presence alongside regular marches and demonstrations in the city, and claims to speak “on behalf of the Loyalist community In Scotland”.

Earlier this year the group tried to hijack St Patrick’s Day by staging a march bedecked in union jacks through the city centre, and they have links to a number of loyalist flute bands, as well as the Scottish Defence League. A Thousand Flowers can reveal that the new “community hub” has links to one of Glasgow’s most notorious and violent crime families.

The shop has been branded as the “P.U.L Community Hub”, an acronym for “Protestant Unionist Loyalist”, and opened on Monday promising to offer advice and drop-in sessions on welfare, legal and housing matters, a jobs board and computer access, and “a place where the door is always open”, with kitchen and toilet facilities.'

http://tinyurl.com/okmcdug

Loyalists? Nah, no such thing.

Hmm... Is this going anywhere? She is at 10/1 for nomination. Perhaps Rubio is better value at just a little less.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/koch-brothers-mega-donors-warm-to-carly-fiorina_561187d0e4b0dd85030c6833

MarqueeMark said:

Beverley_C said:

Casino_Royale said:

In terms of numbers we are a majority (51%) but in terms of equality? Not even close...

What are the issues that you see, Beverley?

snip....

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It just never stops and the message comes through loud and clear - my role is the lesser one or the subservient one. Even the way I have to phrase things - if I give orders to men they look at me with that blank expression, on the other hand if I rephrase it as a genteel request "Excuse me, but would you please do ..... " then things get done. Note that I have not even attempted to bring ethnic issues of violence against women into this - FGM, honour killings, forced marriage, a woman's testimony being 1/4 of a mans - but that is there, part of the background.

I do not let any of it hold me back, but it is there all the time.

Within the past decade, a female colleague of mine who had done just as good a job all year as myself and my male colleague was given no bonus. It was just down to sexism. There was nothing else to it.

My male colleague and I felt wretched about this. I left the company shortly afterwards. Although, I hope you will approve that to share our bonus with her, we bundled her into a taxi and took her to Manolo Blahnik - and told her to pick whatever pair of shoes she wanted....

Interesting. I left my previous firm (Big4, if you want to know) because they promoted a woman into a Director position who was both a control freak, and a bully. She had got there solely off the backs of the efforts of others, who she would try and 'control' to do the work for her that would secure her future career (including me) The leading partner was warned she was unqualified for the role by two other existing directors, but their advice was ignored.

The firm had a % target for female directors and partners, and she was - and is - unbelievably ambitious, so she got it.

EPG said:

Hmm... Is this going anywhere? She is at 10/1 for nomination. Perhaps Rubio is better value at just a little less.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/koch-brothers-mega-donors-warm-to-carly-fiorina_561187d0e4b0dd85030c6833

Rubio is a lot less, come into 4s.

Beverley_C said:

Dair said:

Cisgender means born female and identifies as female. Of course this cisgender female could be straight or gay or something in between, mind.

Sexuality is about who you go to bed with

Gender is about who you go to bad as

Totally separate and unconnected.

Not entirely.

Who I go to bed with depends greatly on who that person goes to bed as.

In any case, I was mainly trying to get the complexity of matters across.

Beverley_C said:

malcolmg said:

On the other side you do get plenty of fluttering eyelids , crocodile tears , back stabbing , etc so not all one sided. Women are better at the nasty stuff than men.

I would never claim that women are perfect. They have their faults just like men.

women's faults are many
men have only two
everything they say
and everything they do

my Latin teacher had that on his classroom wall

Beverley_C said:

malcolmg said:

On the other side you do get plenty of fluttering eyelids , crocodile tears , back stabbing , etc so not all one sided. Women are better at the nasty stuff than men.

I would never claim that women are perfect. They have their faults just like men.

I agree totally , but my wife says I am a bad man.

malcolmg said:

Beverley_C said:

malcolmg said:

On the other side you do get plenty of fluttering eyelids , crocodile tears , back stabbing , etc so not all one sided. Women are better at the nasty stuff than men.

I would never claim that women are perfect. They have their faults just like men.

I agree totally , but my wife says I am a bad man.

she's a good judge of chareacter :-)

malcolmg said:

MTimT said:

Beverley_C said:

...

I could go on and on, but you get the idea. It just never stops and the message comes through loud and clear - my role is the lesser one or the subservient one. Even the way I have to phrase things - if I give orders to men they look at me with that blank expression, on the other hand if I rephrase it as a genteel request "Excuse me, but would you please do ..... " then things get done. Note that I have not even attempted to bring ethnic issues of violence against women into this - FGM, honour killings, forced marriage, a woman's testimony being 1/4 of a mans - but that is there, part of the background.

I do not let any of it hold me back, but it is there all the time.

Beverley, I have to say I am gobsmacked at some or your examples - the laundry in particular. Some less so.

Even though I was brought up in a household where the expectation was that my sisters would be as competitive in the professional workforce as me and household chores were split regardless of gender of sibling, I still find myself having to make a conscious effort to avoid sexism. In meetings with people I don't know, where there are men and women, checking who is the boss before making assumptions, for example, is something I have to remind myself to do consciously.

Even so, sometimes I see it on the other side of the table. Was at a meeting with our mortgage holder the other day - older guy and middle aged woman. He did all the talking, she took the notes. If I had not asked, I wouldn't have known she was the loan officer, not him.

Of course, there is also a lot of non-sexist inconsiderate thoughtlessness in the workplace too, which can appear sexist. Because I look quite a bit younger than my years (full head of hear with little grey), I am often not initially regarded as senior or experienced. Were I a woman, I might label that as sexism. As it is, I try to take it as flattery.

I must find out where I can get some of that hear, being extremely handsome but lacking in locks it could be to my advantage.

hear hear!

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

Wings over Scotland is the 'Weekly Wanker' in this blog...

http://athousandflowers.net/2013/09/01/weekly-wanker-017-wings-over-scotland/

The Rev was that wanker in Sep 2013, though I'm sure he'd happily admit to subsequent wankerdom. His twitter bio does quote the description 'necessary wanker' after all.

A more recent post on Athousandflowers might give some of those over-sensitive types getting aerated about the use of the word 'loyalist' pause for thought.

'Far-right Extremists Open “Community Hub” in Glasgow’s East End

An extremist far-right group behind a series of provocative demonstrations in Glasgow has opened a self-styled “community hub” in Dennistoun, around a mile east of the city centre. The shopfront unit has been opened on Hillfoot Street by the Regimental Blues, a loyalist street movement which maintains a strong social media presence alongside regular marches and demonstrations in the city, and claims to speak “on behalf of the Loyalist community In Scotland”.

Earlier this year the group tried to hijack St Patrick’s Day by staging a march bedecked in union jacks through the city centre, and they have links to a number of loyalist flute bands, as well as the Scottish Defence League. A Thousand Flowers can reveal that the new “community hub” has links to one of Glasgow’s most notorious and violent crime families.

The shop has been branded as the “P.U.L Community Hub”, an acronym for “Protestant Unionist Loyalist”, and opened on Monday promising to offer advice and drop-in sessions on welfare, legal and housing matters, a jobs board and computer access, and “a place where the door is always open”, with kitchen and toilet facilities.'

http://tinyurl.com/okmcdug

Loyalists? Nah, no such thing.

I don't think anyone thinks there is no such thing, they merely resent being labelled as 'loyalist' for expressing skeptical views about independence. It's a smear. Scottish nationalists are very sensitive to smears against themselves, then gleefully use them on their opponents.

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Beverley_C said:

malcolmg said:

On the other side you do get plenty of fluttering eyelids , crocodile tears , back stabbing , etc so not all one sided. Women are better at the nasty stuff than men.

I would never claim that women are perfect. They have their faults just like men.

I agree totally , but my wife says I am a bad man.

she's a good judge of chareacter :-)

LOL, unfortunately, lucky I have my wit , charm and dashing good looks.

malcolmg said:

Alanbrooke said:

malcolmg said:

Beverley_C said:

malcolmg said:

On the other side you do get plenty of fluttering eyelids , crocodile tears , back stabbing , etc so not all one sided. Women are better at the nasty stuff than men.

I would never claim that women are perfect. They have their faults just like men.

I agree totally , but my wife says I am a bad man.

she's a good judge of chareacter :-)

LOL, unfortunately, lucky I have my wit , charm and dashing good looks.

you mean she didn't marry you for your turnip field ?

Luckyguy1983 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

isam said:

Wings over Scotland is the 'Weekly Wanker' in this blog...

http://athousandflowers.net/2013/09/01/weekly-wanker-017-wings-over-scotland/

The Rev was that wanker in Sep 2013, though I'm sure he'd happily admit to subsequent wankerdom. His twitter bio does quote the description 'necessary wanker' after all.

A more recent post on Athousandflowers might give some of those over-sensitive types getting aerated about the use of the word 'loyalist' pause for thought.

'Far-right Extremists Open “Community Hub” in Glasgow’s East End

An extremist far-right group behind a series of provocative demonstrations in Glasgow has opened a self-styled “community hub” in Dennistoun, around a mile east of the city centre. The shopfront unit has been opened on Hillfoot Street by the Regimental Blues, a loyalist street movement which maintains a strong social media presence alongside regular marches and demonstrations in the city, and claims to speak “on behalf of the Loyalist community In Scotland”.

Earlier this year the group tried to hijack St Patrick’s Day by staging a march bedecked in union jacks through the city centre, and they have links to a number of loyalist flute bands, as well as the Scottish Defence League. A Thousand Flowers can reveal that the new “community hub” has links to one of Glasgow’s most notorious and violent crime families.

The shop has been branded as the “P.U.L Community Hub”, an acronym for “Protestant Unionist Loyalist”, and opened on Monday promising to offer advice and drop-in sessions on welfare, legal and housing matters, a jobs board and computer access, and “a place where the door is always open”, with kitchen and toilet facilities.'

http://tinyurl.com/okmcdug

Loyalists? Nah, no such thing.

I don't think anyone thinks there is no such thing, they merely resent being labelled as 'loyalist' for expressing skeptical views about independence. It's a smear. Scottish nationalists are very sensitive to smears against themselves, then gleefully use them on their opponents.

You should live in the West of Scotland, you might not be so magnamanious.

Luckyguy1983 said:

I don't think anyone thinks there is no such thing, they merely resent being labelled as 'loyalist' for expressing skeptical views about independence. It's a smear. Scottish nationalists are very sensitive to smears against themselves, then gleefully use them on their opponents.

It's not a smear, it is an accurate, defined term.

On the other hand, secessionist or separatist are intentional, untrue smears. Scottish Independence is not about secession or separation as neither is legally possible. Scotland is already a separate nation in political Union under international treaty. Scottish Independence is solely about dissolving that Union.

Chris Ship
IDS: if you have more kids you have to make the choices others make & not assume taxpayers money lets you avoid the consequences #taxcredits

Plato_Says said:

Chris Ship
IDS: if you have more kids you have to make the choices others make & not assume taxpayers money lets you avoid the consequences #taxcredits

For once I agree with him

Cyclefree said:

At my place of work we have just invited a prominent woman to come and speak about a campaign she is running about empowering women and, particularly, girls. The introduction to her talks mentions in this order: (1) her name; (2) where she works; (3) the number of her children; (4) whom she is married to; and (5) last the campaign she has set up and the reason why she has been invited.

I raised an objection to this on the basis that a male invitee would as likely as not have no details about his children or partner, would not put the main achievement and the main reason for the invitation last and because it somehow implies that people without children may not also have other caring responsibilities.

They've agreed to look at this again. It's a small thing I realise. And where I work does try quite hard to take sensible steps on Diversity and make practical suggestions / provide practical help rather than just talk about it. But still it grates a bit that lazy assumptions like this are still being made.

Far too much of this kind of horse manure nowadays, loads of people on diversity councils and advising on how many different sexes there really are and all that mince. people should just get on with doing the job they are paid for, instead of foghorning their sexuality and prejudices..

Dair said:

RobD said:

Dair said:

Luckyguy1983 said:

I don't think anyone thinks there is no such thing, they merely resent being labelled as 'loyalist' for expressing skeptical views about independence. It's a smear. Scottish nationalists are very sensitive to smears against themselves, then gleefully use them on their opponents.

It's not a smear, it is an accurate, defined term.

On the other hand, secessionist or separatist are intentional, untrue smears. Scottish Independence is not about secession or separation as neither is legally possible. Scotland is already a separate nation in political Union under international treaty. Scottish Independence is solely about dissolving that Union.

Deunionist would be the correct term then?

Dissolutionist is probably the easiest and most understandable term without any biased loading.

Fantasist sounds more realistic

malcolmg said:

Cyclefree said:

At my place of work we have just invited a prominent woman to come and speak about a campaign she is running about empowering women and, particularly, girls. The introduction to her talks mentions in this order: (1) her name; (2) where she works; (3) the number of her children; (4) whom she is married to; and (5) last the campaign she has set up and the reason why she has been invited.

I raised an objection to this on the basis that a male invitee would as likely as not have no details about his children or partner, would not put the main achievement and the main reason for the invitation last and because it somehow implies that people without children may not also have other caring responsibilities.

They've agreed to look at this again. It's a small thing I realise. And where I work does try quite hard to take sensible steps on Diversity and make practical suggestions / provide practical help rather than just talk about it. But still it grates a bit that lazy assumptions like this are still being made.

Far too much of this kind of horse manure nowadays, loads of people on diversity councils and advising on how many different sexes there really are and all that mince. people should just get on with doing the job they are paid for, instead of foghorning their sexuality and prejudices..

I've still yet to see a form or questionnaire which has the same options as the Green Party manifesto (yes, I read the Green Party manifesto), which was LGBTIQ, but i presume it's coming, though I am sure there are more options or sub options that could be included.

"Who I go to bed with depends greatly on who that person goes to bed as."

The mind boggles.

Mind you, because of snoring, I am largely confined to the spare room these days and so normally go to bed with the cat. So I don't need to worry if my wife is going to bed as a bloke or a woman or a woman identifying as a bloke or as a bloke identifying as a woman or as a woman identifying as a woman who is identifying as a bloke or some other combination. I dare say it's a great relief to Mrs. Llama too, what she would do if forced to worry about whether her husband was at the time male, female, male identifying as female etc. I dread to think.

malcolmg said:

Steven, Whilst tongue in cheek , all true I am afraid , my wife is great. I do however work hard.

Fair enough. You should at least try to do the ironing though. It's very relaxing alongside some music or a podcast. Good way to unwind.

New thread!

SouthamObserver said:

ReggieCide said:

SouthamObserver said:

antifrank said:

You can tell that times are grim for the left when commentisfree is reduced to peddling dreams of impending financial crashes to cheer up its readership:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/05/october-2017-crash-george-osborne-uk-global-economy

We do look to be heading for some very choppy waters. I have big worries about equity markets in most places. I fear there is going to be real turmoil over an extended period. And I don't think that the UK is that well insulated form events elsewhere, at all. In fact, we could be very badly exposed.

Equity markets have mostly gone nowhere over 5 years and I don't see that changing much any time soon. I agree that there will be volatility but investment conservatism should see anyone safe without getting rich - viva dividends. I don't think the Grauniad is a good source for any financial matters (or much else). Don't you get a copy signed by Comrade Owen Jones with your benefit cheque?

Larry Elliott is always worth reading.

I don't know what equity markets you have been looking at over the last five years, but the ones I have invested in have done very well. Now, though, I think it is time to take a break and to get a lot more watchful.

Just as an example, Footsie close today 6298, footsie close 10.12.07, 6565. I don't invest in index trackers. I too have done okay but one man's okay can be another man's absolutely fantastic. I had to google LE as I don't read comics but .... http://www.adamsmith.org/blog/regulation-industry/its-a-pity-to-see-larry-elliott-going-off-the-rails/