Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Osborne edges up further in the next CON leader betting wit

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited October 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Osborne edges up further in the next CON leader betting with Boris trailing a long way behind

With all the focus today being on the George Osborne speech it is inevitable that there has been a fair amount of betting on whether he will in fact become David Cameron’s successor.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Osborne first!
  • Options
    Evil Tory plastic carrier bag tax! :lol:
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Well this has just pushed me further towards the LEAVE camp:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html

    Karen Bradley told a fringe meeting at Conservative party conference that other countries sometimes asked British MEPs to push legislation through the European Parliament so it could not be blocked by their own national legislatures.

    She used the example of mandatory passenger name records on flights, which she said British MEPs were currently pushing through in Brussels for an unnamed country.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    edited October 2015
    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    JEO said:

    Well this has just pushed me further towards the LEAVE camp:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html

    Karen Bradley told a fringe meeting at Conservative party conference that other countries sometimes asked British MEPs to push legislation through the European Parliament so it could not be blocked by their own national legislatures.

    She used the example of mandatory passenger name records on flights, which she said British MEPs were currently pushing through in Brussels for an unnamed country.

    Disgraceful. I would expect this behaviour from Labour's MEPs but quite suprising to see the Tories getting in on it as well.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015
    Surely history shows that this is a lay-the-favourite market.

    Odds on Osborne must also be related to the EU referendum, if DC goes down there, then GO probably goes with him.
  • Options
    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    "It's the woman who's entered, the woman who's violated." - Bowfinger.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672
    Osborne's biggest weakness amongst the membership - he is very likely to get to the last two - will be his metropolitan sympathies and relaxed views on immigration, and on his pro-EU stance.

    All it takes is someone else who is more in tune with the grassroots, and he could easily lose the vote. Election credibility is a card he'll have difficulty in playing because (a) he's not a huge vote winner himself and (b) Labour's leader could well still be Corbyn.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    More news on Russia's Middle East Gambit:

    http://www.debka.com/article/24926/Chinese-warplanes-to-join-Russian-air-strikes-in-Syria-Russia-gains-Iraqi-air-base

    Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 2m2 minutes ago #BREAKING Russian air force says hit '10 Islamic State targets' in Syria Monday
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672
    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    Eh? Who also slept with the father, who in turn stuck up for his son?

    Beyond weird.
  • Options

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    "It's the woman who's entered, the woman who's violated." - Bowfinger.
    Yes, the sentence is ridiculous.

    Will be increased I imagine.
  • Options

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    Eh? Who also slept with the father, who in turn stuck up for his son?

    Beyond weird.
    Not sure about "stuck up for his son"... really stuck up for her by calling him mature and her immature...
  • Options
    MP_SE said:

    JEO said:

    Well this has just pushed me further towards the LEAVE camp:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html

    Karen Bradley told a fringe meeting at Conservative party conference that other countries sometimes asked British MEPs to push legislation through the European Parliament so it could not be blocked by their own national legislatures.

    She used the example of mandatory passenger name records on flights, which she said British MEPs were currently pushing through in Brussels for an unnamed country.

    Disgraceful. I would expect this behaviour from Labour's MEPs but quite suprising to see the Tories getting in on it as well.
    Tory Europhiles are the Kim Philby's de nos jours.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015
    O/T for this thread, but GO speech to conference now online, for those who missed it live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCY5VfT1lM
  • Options

    Evil Tory plastic carrier bag tax! :lol:

    You mean the one that was first introduced by the Welsh Assembly labour government into Wales in 2011
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,672

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    Eh? Who also slept with the father, who in turn stuck up for his son?

    Beyond weird.
    Not sure about "stuck up for his son"... really stuck up for her by calling him mature and her immature...
    He said he was totally up for it and regarded it as a notch on his belt. Sounds a bit like 'go on, my son' to me.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,763
    Sandpit said:

    O/T for this thread, but GO speech to conference now online, for those who missed it live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCY5VfT1lM

    Is anybody that sad ?
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    FPT - Osborne's delivery. It was apparently agreed there would be no triumphalism. Also GO should not be seen to be pressing his leadership case too openly, yet. Just thinking...
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,459
    edited October 2015

    Evil Tory plastic carrier bag tax! :lol:

    You mean the one that was first introduced by the Welsh Assembly labour government into Wales in 2011
    Nonsense! Osborne has had 4 years to repeal it UK-wide!
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
  • Options

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    Eh? Who also slept with the father, who in turn stuck up for his son?

    Beyond weird.
    Not sure about "stuck up for his son"... really stuck up for her by calling him mature and her immature...
    He said he was totally up for it and regarded it as a notch on his belt. Sounds a bit like 'go on, my son' to me.
    I more or less agree - but by doing so he helped her, not really him.

    Put it this way, if he'd wanted to do her the biggest favour he could, he would have said what he did.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    MP_SE said:

    JEO said:

    Well this has just pushed me further towards the LEAVE camp:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html

    Karen Bradley told a fringe meeting at Conservative party conference that other countries sometimes asked British MEPs to push legislation through the European Parliament so it could not be blocked by their own national legislatures.

    She used the example of mandatory passenger name records on flights, which she said British MEPs were currently pushing through in Brussels for an unnamed country.

    Disgraceful. I would expect this behaviour from Labour's MEPs but quite suprising to see the Tories getting in on it as well.
    Tory Europhiles are the Kim Philby's de nos jours.
    It is pretty alarming that the pro-EU side are so bereft of arguments that they are trying to use "our EU membership is good because it means we can help other governments pass laws we support against the wishes of their electorates". As if we are naive enough to believe it happens one way round but not the other.
  • Options
    JEO said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
    No, they don't.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
    No, they don't.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ched-evans-guilty-of-raping-woman-800974
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941

    Sandpit said:

    O/T for this thread, but GO speech to conference now online, for those who missed it live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCY5VfT1lM

    Is anybody that sad ?
    Given that it's dominating the news, it's surely better to see the primary source for the reports rather than third party accounts? I didn't see it so watching now.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Politics_UKnews: Conservative MP Johnny Mercer Confronts Protesters: 'Yes I Am A F***ing Tory Mate, Is That Ok?' #… http://t.co/ygVc02a317
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054

    Sandpit said:

    O/T for this thread, but GO speech to conference now online, for those who missed it live.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFCY5VfT1lM

    Is anybody that sad ?
    I'm not planning to watch it all, but if I watched bits of Corbyn and McDonnell, only fair to look at Osborne.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    Sell the favourite!
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited October 2015
    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
    No, they don't.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ched-evans-guilty-of-raping-woman-800974
    Let's see...

    - Victim is blackout drunk

    - Attacker turns up without knowledge of victim (n.b. invitor is cleared)

    - Gives account of asking for consent, by any account doesn't actually ask the victim

    I mean, you ever slept with someone after asking a completely different person if you could?


  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    perdix said:

    FPT - Osborne's delivery. It was apparently agreed there would be no triumphalism. Also GO should not be seen to be pressing his leadership case too openly, yet. Just thinking...

    I think your thoughts are amongst the more sensible here and of course in the media.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983
    Sandpit said:

    Surely history shows that this is a lay-the-favourite market.

    Odds on Osborne must also be related to the EU referendum, if DC goes down there, then GO probably goes with him.

    I doubt he'd even want the job if he had to negotiate Brexit.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,072
    FPT:
    JEO said:

    This is right, although there are exceptions of widespread losses that politicians should try to avoid:

    - Environmental damage, which may be increased if standards are excessively stripped down.
    - Sovereignty loss, where deals are enshrined permanently and can not be easily changed. This can lead to a lack of faith in political systems which we all suffer from.
    - Economic losses to low skill workers in wealthy nations, who can be outcompeted by cheaper labour in poor nations but do not have the skills to move into high skill jobs.

    I think to some extent one and two are contradictory. For ensuring environmental rules are standardised is inherently denuding of sovereignty. Agreeing in treaty to not make nitrogen fertilizers in an energy inefficient way is denying the people of that country the right to make a decision on that issue.

    Ultimately, all treaties remove power from electorates to a greater or lesser extent, because they bind a country to behave in a certain way. In the case of TIPP or TTP, the ISDS mechanisms means that foreign courts have the ability to impose fines of tens of billions of dollars, such as to effectively limit the sovereignty of domestic politicians.

    That, unfortunately, is the reality of free trade deals.

    With regards to your final point, I think it's important to understand the motivation of all the players here. The motivation for us in the UK (or in any advanced economy) is to sell the things we are good at: advanced engineering, etc. The motivation for India or China is to use provide markets for their domestic, low skilled, low wage, workers, and to drag them out of poverty. Protecting low skilled workers in the West from competition would probably make any FTA we offered unattractive to the Chinas and Indias of this world.
  • Options
    flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    edited October 2015
    MP_SE said:

    JEO said:

    Well this has just pushed me further towards the LEAVE camp:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-eu-is-used-to-bypass-national-democracy-home-office-minister-admits-a6680341.html

    Karen Bradley told a fringe meeting at Conservative party conference that other countries sometimes asked British MEPs to push legislation through the European Parliament so it could not be blocked by their own national legislatures.

    She used the example of mandatory passenger name records on flights, which she said British MEPs were currently pushing through in Brussels for an unnamed country.

    Disgraceful. I would expect this behaviour from Labour's MEPs but quite suprising to see the Tories getting in on it as well.
    ?
    This has been dragging on for years. I believe it's maditory to pass on names to the USA within 15 mins of a flight to the USA.
    Do you want to roll out a red carpet to terrorists?
    PS
    I believe the changes put forward by a UK (Tory?) MEP, in Feb15, was to narrow the definition of terror offenses and other serious crime offenses.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
    No, they don't.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ched-evans-guilty-of-raping-woman-800974
    Let's see...

    - Victim is blackout drunk

    - Attacker turns up without knowledge of victim (n.b. invitor is cleared)

    - Gives account of asking for consent, by any account doesn't actually ask the victim

    I mean, you ever slept with someone after asking a completely different person if you could?
    I don't want to endanger this website by discussing the details of a case that is currently up for review. But my point was that someone got a five year sentence not on the basis that consent was not given, but on the basis that as the woman was drunk she could not consent. Thus my original claim that you can get five years for sleeping with a drunk adult woman was completely correct. Meanwhile a woman can sleep with an eleven year old child and not get a prison sentence.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    "It's the woman who's entered, the woman who's violated." - Bowfinger.
    That was obviously written before the advent of Viagra. I won´t elaborate further.
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2015
    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    I don't know any of the facts here beyond the article, but it appears to me the problem is that the boys father has an odd idea of boundaries.

    That kid is probably confused as hell as to what actually happened.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @owenjbennett: CWU Terry Pullinger says he's glad labour lost the election as now they have Corbyn. @LucyMPowell mouths 'I'm not clapping that!'
  • Options
    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
    No, they don't.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ched-evans-guilty-of-raping-woman-800974
    Let's see...

    - Victim is blackout drunk

    - Attacker turns up without knowledge of victim (n.b. invitor is cleared)

    - Gives account of asking for consent, by any account doesn't actually ask the victim

    I mean, you ever slept with someone after asking a completely different person if you could?
    I don't want to endanger this website by discussing the details of a case that is currently up for review. But my point was that someone got a five year sentence not on the basis that consent was not given, but on the basis that as the woman was drunk she could not consent. Thus my original claim that you can get five years for sleeping with a drunk adult woman was completely correct. Meanwhile a woman can sleep with an eleven year old child and not get a prison sentence.
    Capacity is, under the law, a logically anterior question to the fact of consent.

    It is clearly possible to be too drunk to consent (Bree being the most important case in this line). The only cases I'm aware of to have succeeded are where the victim is passed out at the time, or has passed out shortly before the act of intercourse.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2015
    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    I dunno any of the facts here beyond the article, but it appears to me the problem is that the boys father has an odd idea of boundaries.

    That kid is probably confused as hell as to what actually happened.

    I don´t follow you. What has the boy´s father´s opinion of anything got to do with it? If a man commits a sexual offence, I don´t think what someone else´s parent thought about it would hold much sway with the judge, and neither should it in this case.
  • Options

    Evil Tory plastic carrier bag tax! :lol:

    You mean the one that was first introduced by the Welsh Assembly labour government into Wales in 2011
    Nonsense! Osborne has had 4 years to repeal it UK-wide!
    Why repeal a policy that is hugely successful and very popular in Wales. Also is in Scotland and Northern Ireland and is a devolved matter
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983
    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    JEO said:

    Sandpit said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    This sort of treatment is undermining the criminal justice system.

    Look at the case last week of the woman who killed a man on her estate and was given a light sentence because she was a single mother.

    Yes, the victim seems to have been an unrepentant paedophile but taking a kitchen knife with you when you go to visit and then using that knife to kill him seems to warrant more than just a couple of years behind bars.
    Imagine the outcry if the situation of the two sexual partners aged 11 and 20 had been reversed in gender. Sex with a minor under 13 is an offence where the tariff is 10 years as a starting point for the judge, how he goes from that to "oh well, one was mature and the other immature, let's give her six months suspended" is frankly bollocks.
    And yet men get five years for just sleeping with a drunk adult woman.
    No, they don't.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ched-evans-guilty-of-raping-woman-800974
    Let's see...

    - Victim is blackout drunk

    - Attacker turns up without knowledge of victim (n.b. invitor is cleared)

    - Gives account of asking for consent, by any account doesn't actually ask the victim

    I mean, you ever slept with someone after asking a completely different person if you could?
    I don't want to endanger this website by discussing the details of a case that is currently up for review. But my point was that someone got a five year sentence not on the basis that consent was not given, but on the basis that as the woman was drunk she could not consent. Thus my original claim that you can get five years for sleeping with a drunk adult woman was completely correct. Meanwhile a woman can sleep with an eleven year old child and not get a prison sentence.
    Drunkenness does not negate legal consent to sex.

    Being so drunk that you've passed out, means you can't legally consent to sex.
  • Options

    Evil Tory plastic carrier bag tax! :lol:

    You mean the one that was first introduced by the Welsh Assembly labour government into Wales in 2011
    Nonsense! Osborne has had 4 years to repeal it UK-wide!
    Why repeal a policy that is hugely successful and very popular in Wales. Also is in Scotland and Northern Ireland and is a devolved matter
    The way it is run in Scotland is bloody stupid. It applies not only to plastic bags but also to paper bags so long as they gave a handle.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    perdix said:

    FPT - Osborne's delivery. It was apparently agreed there would be no triumphalism. Also GO should not be seen to be pressing his leadership case too openly, yet. Just thinking...

    Having just watched the speech now, I didn't think the delivery was that bad. He was slow and deliberate, triumphant without sounding too arrogant about it. Given that his party just won the election he's every right to be that.

    I thought his comments on the Northern Powerhouse very telling - this is clearly something in which he passionately believes, and will be a big focus of the next couple of years in policy terms.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @gabyhinsliff: Sat in a fringe meeting where Tories discussing how to win in 2020, reading about a dep union ldr telling rally he's almost glad Lab lost..

    @gabyhinsliff: ..given it gave them the chance to get Corbyn as leader. Contrast is so stark it's surreal.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015
    AndyJS said:

    Pong said:

    JEO said:

    This is disgusting. A 21 year old woman has sex with an 11 year old boy, and she doesn't even get a jail sentence. Does anyone think for a minute that had the genders been reversed, a man wouldn't have gone to jail?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11911629/Babysitter-spared-jail-after-having-sex-with-boy-aged-11.html

    I'm utterly sick of how judges always let women off easy.

    I dunno any of the facts here beyond the article, but it appears to me the problem is that the boys father has an odd idea of boundaries.

    That kid is probably confused as hell as to what actually happened.

    I don´t follow you. What has the boy´s father´s opinion of anything got to do with it? If a man commits a sexual offence, I don´t think what someone else´s parent thought about it would hold much sway with the judge, and neither should it in this case.
    Reading a little more on this case reveals that the father of the boy had a prior sexual relationship with the woman involved. One might think that his comments to the judge were designed to help her out by leading the judge towards a severely reduced sentence compared to the tariff.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Evil Tory plastic carrier bag tax! :lol:

    You mean the one that was first introduced by the Welsh Assembly labour government into Wales in 2011
    Nonsense! Osborne has had 4 years to repeal it UK-wide!
    Why repeal a policy that is hugely successful and very popular in Wales. Also is in Scotland and Northern Ireland and is a devolved matter
    The way it is run in Scotland is bloody stupid. It applies not only to plastic bags but also to paper bags so long as they gave a handle.
    Paper bags also require energy to create. In many ways plastic bags properly disposed of are a great form of carbon capture.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PickardJE: Natalie Bennett of Greens, who got 3.8 per cent in May:

    "We are the many, they are the few."

    @JoeWatts_: Natalie Bennett is playing Corbyn's warm up act. The Greens have a real problem in their hands #CPC15

    Where is Neil these days?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Dan isn't impressed
    Over the past 48 hours, delegates, MPs, journalists and exhibitors who are attending the annual gathering of the nation’s governing party have been punched, spat at, kicked, subjected to racist abuse, sexist abuse and other general threats of violence. Fascist street-craft is being deployed in the name of the progressive majority.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11913282/The-Left-has-become-locked-in-a-death-spiral.html
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Dan isn't impressed

    Over the past 48 hours, delegates, MPs, journalists and exhibitors who are attending the annual gathering of the nation’s governing party have been punched, spat at, kicked, subjected to racist abuse, sexist abuse and other general threats of violence. Fascist street-craft is being deployed in the name of the progressive majority.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11913282/The-Left-has-become-locked-in-a-death-spiral.html

    Why would he be? He's Tory Scum after all.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Cos losing wasn't enough...
    World Rugby are investigating claims that two England coaches broke the rules by approaching the match officials in the tunnel at half-time of their 33-13 defeat by Australia at Twickenham on Saturday.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/rugbyunion/article4576708.ece
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015

    Dan isn't impressed

    Over the past 48 hours, delegates, MPs, journalists and exhibitors who are attending the annual gathering of the nation’s governing party have been punched, spat at, kicked, subjected to racist abuse, sexist abuse and other general threats of violence. Fascist street-craft is being deployed in the name of the progressive majority.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11913282/The-Left-has-become-locked-in-a-death-spiral.html
    One assumes there will be video of these assaults as well as police witnesses. If there are not arrests in the coming days expect pressure on GM Police to explain why.

    Given the notice of the protest there are probably also police (Special Branch, TSG) and spooks embedded with the nutters, to ensure there were no genuine threats against the government and its ministers among all the egg throwing and placard waving.

    I feel sorry for the Dan Hodges' and Southam Observer's of this world. They have had their party taken over by people who appear not to believe in democracy.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STVNews: The Lord Advocate will answer questions over allegations against the solicitor acting for MP Michelle Thomson. http://t.co/GQN5aOONxI
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Scott_P said:

    @STVNews: The Lord Advocate will answer questions over allegations against the solicitor acting for MP Michelle Thomson. http://t.co/GQN5aOONxI

    Total non-story.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    RobD said:

    Total non-story.

    Obviously. As is this. 2 people, who were both members of a completely apolitical organisation, who both coincidentally happen to be candidates for the same political party.

    https://twitter.com/cllrnormanwork/status/588416432989458432

    Nothng to see here.
  • Options
    JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Dan isn't impressed

    Over the past 48 hours, delegates, MPs, journalists and exhibitors who are attending the annual gathering of the nation’s governing party have been punched, spat at, kicked, subjected to racist abuse, sexist abuse and other general threats of violence. Fascist street-craft is being deployed in the name of the progressive majority.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11913282/The-Left-has-become-locked-in-a-death-spiral.html

    Sometimes I sympathise for the moderate Labour folk who have seen their party swamped and taken over by the extremists. But then I remember that they were very happy to slam the Tories as evil while overlooking the bigotry by the Diane Abbotts of the world in their own ranks. They allowed the nastiness to fester and are now paying for their own double standard.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,402
    Scott_P said:

    @STVNews: The Lord Advocate will answer questions over allegations against the solicitor acting for MP Michelle Thomson. http://t.co/GQN5aOONxI

    Quite an odd thing to do if the Lord Advocate had any contemplation of bringing charges here. We should be able to tell tomorrow where they are at by the questions he doesn't answer.

    But the Crown Office is sitting smug on this. They acted in 6 days. It is the Law Society that have questions to answer.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015
    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    Does he not understand that if he starts every speech with an attack on the media then he will end up with only RT and the Morning Star covering him? What chance that next year's conference is boycotted by the Lobby after the way they've been treated in the last 48 hours..?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JoshMay_PH: Stop the War's Lindsay German gets a big cheers as she tells Labour MPs: "Agree with Jeremy or shut up" #Peoplespost #newpolitics
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Thanks. *Starts writing letter to the Bishop and Dean*
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
    Sandpit said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Thanks. *Starts writing letter to the Bishop and Dean*
    He's from South Africa, so he won't care about your complaint.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015
    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Thanks. *Starts writing letter to the Bishop and Dean*
    He's from South Africa, so he won't care about your complaint.
    Does he really not care about being associated with protestors throwing eggs, spitting and swearing at the democratically elected government..?
    Not to mention a number of journalists and charity workers trying to go about their legitimate business in Manchester.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015
    Corbyn does an anti-Osborne speech, he's turned the volume up and moved his thanks for his campaign in the middle of his speech rather than at the beginning.
    Light on specifics, heavy on ideology and very loud.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,227
    Scott_P said:

    @JoshMay_PH: Stop the War's Lindsay German gets a big cheers as she tells Labour MPs: "Agree with Jeremy or shut up" #Peoplespost #newpolitics

    That simply cannot be right. I'm sure Nick Palmer told us that Jeremy was the collegiate sort of chap willing to have a debate and not impose his views. I didn't dream that, did I?

  • Options
    I'm still not convinced that the Tax Credit issue won't come back to haunt Osborne...I've wittered on here about it months ago about the impact of these cuts that are truly eye-watering
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MikeGapes: I've spent my life fighting for Labour and democratic socialism and no raddled old SWP trot is going to tell me or other MPs how to vote.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Sandpit said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Thanks. *Starts writing letter to the Bishop and Dean*
    He's from South Africa, so he won't care about your complaint.
    Does he really not care about being associated with protestors throwing eggs, spitting and swearing at the democratically elected government..?
    Not to mention a number of journalists and charity workers trying to go about their legitimate business in Manchester.
    You were not about to write a letter to complain about that though, you were about to complain about Corbyn.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Scott_P said:

    @MikeGapes: I've spent my life fighting for Labour and democratic socialism and no raddled old SWP trot is going to tell me or other MPs how to vote.

    So?
    He's so out of touch from reality that he nominated Liz Kendall.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015
    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Thanks. *Starts writing letter to the Bishop and Dean*
    He's from South Africa, so he won't care about your complaint.
    Does he really not care about being associated with protestors throwing eggs, spitting and swearing at the democratically elected government..?
    Not to mention a number of journalists and charity workers trying to go about their legitimate business in Manchester.
    You were not about to write a letter to complain about that though, you were about to complain about Corbyn.
    Unfortunately for everyone involved, any distinction between the various protest groups in Manchester is very blurred indeed.

    Corbyn would have been much better off staying the hell out of town, and those giving him succour would do well to reflect on how that looks to the general public, given the activities of the protestors over the past 48 hours.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054
    Scott_P said:

    @PickardJE: Natalie Bennett of Greens, who got 3.8 per cent in May:

    "We are the many, they are the few."

    Ugh, that pisses me off so much. Unless we include all non-Tory voters as a monolithic bloc dedicated to opposing the Tories, and even if we include all non-voters as being part of that bloc, the Tories at least have proof of some level of direct support from the GE which is larger than that of the Greens or their follow travelers.

    We've already been told people voting Tory didn't know the implications of what they were doing, now apparently those voting Tory just don't count at all. Even if one thinks the Tories only care about the few, they still got voted in by the many. I was not among that many, I voted LD in the end (almost Green, if only for the laughs, as I want small parties to do well), but I'd probably pretend I did if confronted by that band of loonies, who always seem to believe they speak for the majority no matter how much the majority let them down at the ballot box.
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Just been reading the General Boles twitter feed that has an excellent summary of what is being said at the Corbyn even, as are posters below.
    He seems surrounded by people that are deluded currently, he needs a practical person to help him out. Any takers?
  • Options
    perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    O/T Ominous reports if true. Russia offered base in Iraq. China to use carrier to attack Syria targets. Would give link but web site said to be risky if accessed.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,054
    Speedy said:

    You can watch Corbyn's speech live here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-NpqYjrLc

    And here:

    ttp://media.cwu.org/peoplespostlive.html

    A bit more of the anger in him this time, as befits a protest I suppose. I must say I do find him a reasonably magnetic speaker, although it seems greedy to get airtime at his own conference and still seek attention at another one.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulhutcheon: According to this piece, Ivan Mckee was in Labour for 20 years! http://t.co/n5nUmOB5ZJ
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,144

    Politics_UKnews: Conservative MP Johnny Mercer Confronts Protesters: 'Yes I Am A F***ing Tory Mate, Is That Ok?' #… http://t.co/ygVc02a317

    That is only going to add to TSE's man-crush on Johnny. Leader after next?
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,402
    HaroldO said:

    Just been reading the General Boles twitter feed that has an excellent summary of what is being said at the Corbyn even, as are posters below.
    He seems surrounded by people that are deluded currently, he needs a practical person to help him out. Any takers?

    I believe Mandelson is too busy updating his Linked In account. Or something.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,402
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    You can watch Corbyn's speech live here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-NpqYjrLc

    And here:

    ttp://media.cwu.org/peoplespostlive.html

    A bit more of the anger in him this time, as befits a protest I suppose. I must say I do find him a reasonably magnetic speaker, although it seems greedy to get airtime at his own conference and still seek attention at another one.
    There used to be conventions about that sort of thing. The line between ignorant and pig ignorant is sometimes blurry.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited October 2015

    I'm still not convinced that the Tax Credit issue won't come back to haunt Osborne...I've wittered on here about it months ago about the impact of these cuts that are truly eye-watering

    85% of the electorate do not receive tax credits.

    Tories have done an astonishingly good job in weaning the electorate off them without adverse political impacts.

    6.3m families in 2009/2010.
    4.5m families in 2013/2014.

    It will go under 4m soon.
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    DavidL said:

    HaroldO said:

    Just been reading the General Boles twitter feed that has an excellent summary of what is being said at the Corbyn even, as are posters below.
    He seems surrounded by people that are deluded currently, he needs a practical person to help him out. Any takers?

    I believe Mandelson is too busy updating his Linked In account. Or something.
    Nah, I'm sure Caroline Lucas is being texted as we speak. She represent the majority in this country donchaknow.
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    You can watch Corbyn's speech live here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-NpqYjrLc

    And here:

    ttp://media.cwu.org/peoplespostlive.html

    A bit more of the anger in him this time, as befits a protest I suppose. I must say I do find him a reasonably magnetic speaker, although it seems greedy to get airtime at his own conference and still seek attention at another one.
    As I said many weeks ago, Corbyn would be lousy to have at a boardgame, as he likes to break the rules so much I can imagine him burning rulebooks at the fireplace instead of wood.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    You can watch Corbyn's speech live here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-NpqYjrLc

    And here:

    ttp://media.cwu.org/peoplespostlive.html

    A bit more of the anger in him this time, as befits a protest I suppose. I must say I do find him a reasonably magnetic speaker, although it seems greedy to get airtime at his own conference and still seek attention at another one.
    There used to be conventions about that sort of thing. The line between ignorant and pig ignorant is sometimes blurry.
    The Conservative leadership really won't mind on this occasion.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,075
    perdix said:

    O/T Ominous reports if true. Russia offered base in Iraq. China to use carrier to attack Syria targets. Would give link but web site said to be risky if accessed.

    I've seen that reported elsewhere as well.

    The most interesting bit for me is the carrier: if the Chinese have managed to get both aircraft, crew and ship ready to perform high-tempo operations then it'll be a massively impressive and significant effort. They only did their first touch-and-go landing on the Lianoing two or three years ago.

    It's hard to know what good the Lianoing would do in theatre without the capability to perform high-tempo operations.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,168
    The leaders you cite challenged for the leadership in opposition, in power the Chancellor or Foreign Secretary tend to win
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,168
    Jeremy Hunt pulled the emergency cord by mistake in a Virgin Trains loo on the way to the Conference
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/a3083096.html
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited October 2015

    perdix said:

    O/T Ominous reports if true. Russia offered base in Iraq. China to use carrier to attack Syria targets. Would give link but web site said to be risky if accessed.

    I've seen that reported elsewhere as well.

    The most interesting bit for me is the carrier: if the Chinese have managed to get both aircraft, crew and ship ready to perform high-tempo operations then it'll be a massively impressive and significant effort. They only did their first touch-and-go landing on the Lianoing two or three years ago.

    It's hard to know what good the Lianoing would do in theatre without the capability to perform high-tempo operations.
    You can call it a practice drill, to see how they can do in a real combat situation.
    Also according to CNN the US suspects the russians are going to start ground operations in Syria soon.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/05/politics/russia-ground-campaign-syria-isis/

    You would need 160 thousand troops for an effective operation in Syria though, I can't see Russia putting in more than 10 thousand at best.
  • Options
    chestnut said:

    I'm still not convinced that the Tax Credit issue won't come back to haunt Osborne...I've wittered on here about it months ago about the impact of these cuts that are truly eye-watering

    85% of the electorate do not receive tax credits.

    Tories have done an astonishingly good job in weaning the electorate off them without adverse political impacts.

    6.3m families in 2009/2010.
    4.5m families in 2013/2014.

    It will go under 4m soon.
    These cuts are going to send tens of thousands in to a spiral of debt that it will be impossible to get out of...as a result of the way that it is structured it is nigh on impossible to earn your way out of debt because for every pound the recipient earns in salary they will lose 80 pence (48% tax credits, 12% NIC an 20% PAYE) and more importantly for Osborne it hits those on £20k+ with kids
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    If we go into politics, we go into our union work, we go into our lives on the basis that what we say we hope is of value, what the other person says we hope is of value, and we engage in an intelligent, civilised debate, not responding to personal abuse and not making personal abuse."

    – JEREMY CORBYN

    Not responding to personal abuse...
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,402
    antifrank said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Speedy said:

    You can watch Corbyn's speech live here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eN-NpqYjrLc

    And here:

    ttp://media.cwu.org/peoplespostlive.html

    A bit more of the anger in him this time, as befits a protest I suppose. I must say I do find him a reasonably magnetic speaker, although it seems greedy to get airtime at his own conference and still seek attention at another one.
    There used to be conventions about that sort of thing. The line between ignorant and pig ignorant is sometimes blurry.
    The Conservative leadership really won't mind on this occasion.
    Yeah, I think we agreed about that earlier in the day. The gap between what is being done in the hall and the yobs outside is painful and Corbyn is an idiot to go anywhere near it. But we knew that already.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,983
    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Why are the Church giving him a base, or do they routinely let out the Cathedral to political speakers?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Sean_F said:

    Speedy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Which church is Corbyn speaking from?

    The Manchester Cathedral.
    Why are the Church giving him a base, or do they routinely let out the Cathedral to political speakers?
    Because the Church likes the poor?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,941
    edited October 2015

    chestnut said:

    I'm still not convinced that the Tax Credit issue won't come back to haunt Osborne...I've wittered on here about it months ago about the impact of these cuts that are truly eye-watering

    85% of the electorate do not receive tax credits.

    Tories have done an astonishingly good job in weaning the electorate off them without adverse political impacts.

    6.3m families in 2009/2010.
    4.5m families in 2013/2014.

    It will go under 4m soon.
    These cuts are going to send tens of thousands in to a spiral of debt that it will be impossible to get out of...as a result of the way that it is structured it is nigh on impossible to earn your way out of debt because for every pound the recipient earns in salary they will lose 80 pence (48% tax credits, 12% NIC an 20% PAYE) and more importantly for Osborne it hits those on £20k+ with kids
    Sorry, but that is bollocks. What is the debt you talk about?

    No mention of the increased minimum wage, or of the massive rise in personal allowances since 2010. No-one working less than 30 hours on minimum wage is paying any income tax at all.

    Under the last Labour government, working 24 hours a week could leave you worse off than working 16 - where is the incentive there to do more work?
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Pottering through more posts on twitter and there are quite a few Labour MPs making their feelings clear about about the Corbyn meeting tonight.....
    Blimey.
    It appears the new politics is about to be tested, the ability for MPs to openly criticise their leader on social media as they speak at a public meeting but I think that large sections of the Corbynistas will not take kindly to it. The new politics is for certain people only, not Tories, not Lib Dems, no UKIP....just certain sections of the left.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,402
    HYUFD said:

    Jeremy Hunt pulled the emergency cord by mistake in a Virgin Trains loo on the way to the Conference
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/a3083096.html

    Was this before or after his comments on tax credits?
  • Options
    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    dr_spyn said:

    If we go into politics, we go into our union work, we go into our lives on the basis that what we say we hope is of value, what the other person says we hope is of value, and we engage in an intelligent, civilised debate, not responding to personal abuse and not making personal abuse."

    – JEREMY CORBYN

    Not responding to personal abuse...

    There is only so long that he can distance himself from people that actively support him, technically of course they are not his responsibility but in the eyes of the public I doubt there will be that clear seperation.
  • Options
    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    edited October 2015

    chestnut said:

    I'm still not convinced that the Tax Credit issue won't come back to haunt Osborne...I've wittered on here about it months ago about the impact of these cuts that are truly eye-watering

    85% of the electorate do not receive tax credits.

    Tories have done an astonishingly good job in weaning the electorate off them without adverse political impacts.

    6.3m families in 2009/2010.
    4.5m families in 2013/2014.

    It will go under 4m soon.
    These cuts are going to send tens of thousands in to a spiral of debt that it will be impossible to get out of...as a result of the way that it is structured it is nigh on impossible to earn your way out of debt because for every pound the recipient earns in salary they will lose 80 pence (48% tax credits, 12% NIC an 20% PAYE) and more importantly for Osborne it hits those on £20k+ with kids
    It hits those on £20k with kids where there is only one parent or where only one parent is working.

    If two parents are both working anything like near full-time their household income will be way, way above £20k.

    Tax credits are by and large a huge subsidy for people with children where there is only only parent (or only one parent works).

    In my view it is outrageous that a single person earning £15k gets zero tax credits. But a single person with two children earning £30k gets tax credits. Or a couple with only one working earning £30k gets tax credits.

    These changes will lead to major behavioural change.

    For starters they will encourage couples on low to middle incomes to stay together - because they will know that if they split the huge subsidy for single parents with children will no longer be so generous.

    As for the effective rate of tax - in future any couple with two children and a household income of just £29k - not much if both parents work - won't be getting tax credits at all - so every extra pound they earn they keep 68p - a very good incentive indeed for them both to work and to further their careers to earn more.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    I'm still not convinced that the Tax Credit issue won't come back to haunt Osborne...I've wittered on here about it months ago about the impact of these cuts that are truly eye-watering

    85% of the electorate do not receive tax credits.

    Tories have done an astonishingly good job in weaning the electorate off them without adverse political impacts.

    6.3m families in 2009/2010.
    4.5m families in 2013/2014.

    It will go under 4m soon.
    These cuts are going to send tens of thousands in to a spiral of debt that it will be impossible to get out of...as a result of the way that it is structured it is nigh on impossible to earn your way out of debt because for every pound the recipient earns in salary they will lose 80 pence (48% tax credits, 12% NIC an 20% PAYE) and more importantly for Osborne it hits those on £20k+ with kids
    Tens of thousands?

    The electorate is nearly 50 million.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Jeremy Hunt pulled the emergency cord by mistake in a Virgin Trains loo on the way to the Conference
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/londoners-diary/a3083096.html

    Was this before or after his comments on tax credits?
    This was on the way to conference. So, before.
Sign In or Register to comment.