politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “Call me Dave”: The Ashcroft revelations in the Mail appear

System · September 2015

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “Call me Dave”: The Ashcroft revelations in the Mail appear to have run out of steam

The “revelations” from Day 4 of the Daily Mail’s serialisation of Lord Ashcroft’s unofficial biography of Mr Cameron don’t quite have the potency of what we saw earlier in the week.

Read the full story here

JohnLoony · September 2015

Lord Ashcroft is a hippopotamus.

MTimT · September 2015

And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.

felix · September 2015

The most interesting news today is the EU now dancing entirely to Cameron's tune with €1bn aid to refugee camps in situ, control of external borders and action in Syria. A quite spectacular vindication of Britain's approach from the start. Merkel' s nonsense of the past few weeks forgotten - with VW going down the pan maybe they don't need so many migrants now

Also makes Tim Farron' s speech yesterday look even more mind-numbingly stupid. All we need now is for Labour to abandon the welfare cap and Trident at their conference....

CarlottaVance · September 2015

The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'

peter_from_putney · September 2015

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.

Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms, of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.

Alanbrooke · September 2015

Nobody has run this story from a pig's POV, shoddy journalism

MTimT · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.
Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.

She is still firmly ahead in the Dem nomination process, but there is a growing conviction that she is damaged goods, and hence is very vulnerable in the general, which then feeds into the perception that she should not be the nominee. This graph is extremely worrisome for the Dems:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

I would think she is somewhere in the 60-70% range for the nomination. If she is nominated, I'd put her at no better than evens to win against any decent GOP candidate, and probably in the 45-48% range against the most electable of the GOP runners (Bush, Rubio, Christie or Kasich). More bad news, or an announcement that Biden is in the race (particularly if Obama openly or tacitly endorses him) could change my perceptions of those odds in a heartbeat. Likewise, if Biden does not enter, nor does any other viable Dem, her odds of getting the nod will increase, with a lesser positive effect on her POTUS chances.

Given I am convinced Trump, Carson nor Fiorina are low probabilities to get the nod, I would think Hillary's overall chances for POTUS measured from this point in time should be 40-50%. Might be lower, not good at calculating the probabilities of all the possibilities so they add up to 1.

CarlottaVance · September 2015

If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....

JackW · September 2015

I'm far more concerned about the Daily Mail story on the right side of the front page :

"Bra Baroness Bags A Jag On The Taxpayer"

Ye gods Mrs JackW might demand a Bentley from her funding source ....

Alanbrooke · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....

Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.

peter_from_putney · September 2015

MTimT said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.
Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.
She is still firmly ahead in the Dem nomination process, but there is a growing conviction that she is damaged goods, and hence is very vulnerable in the general, which then feeds into the perception that she should not be the nominee. This graph is extremely worrisome for the Dems:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

I would think she is somewhere in the 60-70% range for the nomination. If she is nominated, I'd put her at no better than evens to win against any decent GOP candidate, and probably in the 45-48% range against the most electable of the GOP runners (Bush, Rubio, Christie or Kasich). More bad news, or an announcement that Biden is in the race (particularly if Obama openly or tacitly endorses him) could change my perceptions of those odds in a heartbeat. Likewise, if Biden does not enter, nor does any other viable Dem, her odds of getting the nod will increase, with a lesser positive effect on her POTUS chances.

Given I am convinced Trump, Carson nor Fiorina are low probabilities to get the nod, I would think Hillary's overall chances for POTUS measured from this point in time should be 40-50%. Might be lower, not good at calculating the probabilities of all the possibilities so they add up to 1.

That's really helpful and informative .... many thanks! I may return for quarterly updates if that's OK with you.

CarlottaVance · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.

I agree the 'Vow' was a mistake - but lets face it, the Nats would have found some 'injustice' to complain about without it.......

MTimT · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.
Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.
She is still firmly ahead in the Dem nomination process, but there is a growing conviction that she is damaged goods, and hence is very vulnerable in the general, which then feeds into the perception that she should not be the nominee. This graph is extremely worrisome for the Dems:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

I would think she is somewhere in the 60-70% range for the nomination. If she is nominated, I'd put her at no better than evens to win against any decent GOP candidate, and probably in the 45-48% range against the most electable of the GOP runners (Bush, Rubio, Christie or Kasich). More bad news, or an announcement that Biden is in the race (particularly if Obama openly or tacitly endorses him) could change my perceptions of those odds in a heartbeat. Likewise, if Biden does not enter, nor does any other viable Dem, her odds of getting the nod will increase, with a lesser positive effect on her POTUS chances.

Given I am convinced Trump, Carson nor Fiorina are low probabilities to get the nod, I would think Hillary's overall chances for POTUS measured from this point in time should be 40-50%. Might be lower, not good at calculating the probabilities of all the possibilities so they add up to 1.
That's really helpful and informative .... many thanks! I may return for quarterly updates if that's OK with you.

More than fine. Off to bed at this point. I'll Vanilla message you my email so that you can get me off-line as we rarely seem to be on at the same time these days.

RobD · September 2015

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11885688/First-council-in-Britain-starts-monthly-bin-collections.html

Bins out for four weeks before being collected. Lovely.

SquareRoot · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.

It is difficult to think of anything that Brown touched that ended up well. I was watching a programme on tv the other night and there was a heavily made up girl on, it was almost trowelled on, but from the camera angle, she had the appearance of a large orange dot on her forehead.
It reminded me of the "Great Leader"

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/04_02/gordonbrownPA_468x563.jpg

JackW · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.
Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

Given I am convinced Trump, Carson nor Fiorina are low probabilities to get the nod, I would think Hillary's overall chances for POTUS measured from this point in time should be 40-50%. Might be lower, not good at calculating the probabilities of all the possibilities so they add up to 1.
That's really helpful and informative .... many thanks! I may return for quarterly updates if that's OK with you.

If I may place my couple of groats worth in ....

Recall that the whole nomination process is a marathon with knobs on. Within the GOP early runners often don't make the cut although the cash rich Trump ego insurgency may confound.

The GOP field is also so turnip rich that it's would send any PB SNP waller in the direction of any handy harvester.

Even a slightly weakened Clinton remains the candidate to beat and against the present GOP (turnip) field she will emerge as the rather more tasty prospect for the consumer come next year.

JosiasJessop · September 2015

"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.

CarlottaVance · September 2015

Bit rich from a country that has donated barely a Sou to the refugee camps on Syria's borders:

France called for an international conference on refugees, with President Francois Hollande singling out the US and Canada for having to "do their bit".

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34344346

The US is by a long way the largest donor, followed by the UK.......

ThreeQuidder · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.

I suppose you could also criticise his timing of his comments on fairness for England, though it's likely that the Nats would have complained whenever he made them.

But it would be a bit churlish to do so: he won the referendum, after all.

MTimT · September 2015

JackW said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.
Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

Given I am convinced Trump, Carson nor Fiorina are low probabilities to get the nod, I would think Hillary's overall chances for POTUS measured from this point in time should be 40-50%. Might be lower, not good at calculating the probabilities of all the possibilities so they add up to 1.
That's really helpful and informative .... many thanks! I may return for quarterly updates if that's OK with you.
If I may place my couple of groats worth in ....

Recall that the whole nomination process is a marathon with knobs on. Within the GOP early runners often don't make the cut although the cash rich Trump ego insurgency may confound.

The GOP field is also so turnip rich that it's would send any PB SNP waller in the direction of any handy harvester.

Even a slightly weakened Clinton remains the candidate to beat and against the present GOP (turnip) field she will emerge as the rather more tasty prospect for the consumer come next year.

A very European misunderstanding of US politics simply because you find GOP policies too far to the right and too religious. From a European perspective, the GOP is full of turnips. From the US perspective, most political commentators of both stripes think - policy differences, Trump, Carson and Fiorina aside - that it is a highly experienced and strong field. In contrast, many Dems are ruing how weak their field is, with all their eggs in the Hillary basket.

peter_from_putney · September 2015

JackW said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:

peter_from_putney said:

MTimT said:
And now for something completely different, the continuing, groundhog-day-like saga of Hillary's emails. Bloomberg is reporting that the FBI have successfully recovered emails from Hillary's 'wiped' server.

This raises at least four new areas of potential danger :
- the FBI finds evidence that warrants criminal charges against Hillary and/or her aides
- the FBI agrees on the preservation of emails it finds in the course of its investigation and provides them to the various congressional investigations underway
- Hillary's retrieved personal emails are leaked and reveal politically damaging but not criminal activities, e.g. relating to the Clinton Foundation, or pay to play
- retrieved emails prove that Hillary has lied in her statements about the emails or the server.
Tim - If you were a betting man (although I don't believe you are), how would you currently rate Hillary's chances, expressed in percentage terms of her:
1. Winning the Democratic Nomination and
2 Winning the POTUS Election in November next year.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/2016_democratic_presidential_nomination-3824.html

Given I am convinced Trump, Carson nor Fiorina are low probabilities to get the nod, I would think Hillary's overall chances for POTUS measured from this point in time should be 40-50%. Might be lower, not good at calculating the probabilities of all the possibilities so they add up to 1.
That's really helpful and informative .... many thanks! I may return for quarterly updates if that's OK with you.
If I may place my couple of groats worth in ....

Recall that the whole nomination process is a marathon with knobs on. Within the GOP early runners often don't make the cut although the cash rich Trump ego insurgency may confound.

The GOP field is also so turnip rich that it's would send any PB SNP waller in the direction of any handy harvester.

Even a slightly weakened Clinton remains the candidate to beat and against the present GOP (turnip) field she will emerge as the rather more tasty prospect for the consumer come next year.

Many thanks Jack - People ignore your advice on such matters at their peril, given your very accurate and equally confident prediction of our own GE result four months ago.

DecrepitJohnL · September 2015

SquareRoot said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.
It is difficult to think of anything that Brown touched that ended up well.

Gordon Brown: he saved the pound; he saved the world; he saved the union.

From the Daily Mail's serialisation of Ashcroft's homage to Dave:

In the final fortnight, however, Brown threw himself into the campaign, delivering a series of barnstorming speeches across Scotland. His final speech, the day before the vote, ‘was just the most powerful 15-minute speech I’ve ever heard in my life’, says a Tory member of the No team.

As old divisions healed, Brown even started working closely with Cameron. Indeed, after the Prime Minister’s depressing weekend at Balmoral, the two men actually spoke on the phone to each other every day. Cameron’s final speech was even sent to Brown for approval.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

JosiasJessop · September 2015

ThreeQuidder said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

‘David was very active in ensuring that the Government side of the campaign delivered what was needed,’ says Cooper. ‘At any point where somebody asked him to put a call in to X, Y, Z, he just did it . . .

‘I don’t think it’s fair to fault him, given how incredibly weak the stock of the Tories in Scotland is. It was very disciplined of him to acknowledge that — to be willing to be guided.

‘He deferred to the advice of the Scots, he deferred to the people on the campaign and he deferred to the Labour people. He did exactly what he was advised to do when he was advised to do it.....

Until then, Brown had been aloof — contenting himself, in the words of one insider, with ‘just throwing grenades at the campaign’. He was never seen in the Better Together offices and refused to work with Tories.

‘He’d just sit on his own and come up with his ideas without any consultation,’ one senior member of the No team recalls. ‘The man was just awful.

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.
I suppose you could also criticise his timing of his comments on fairness for England, though it's likely that the Nats would have complained whenever he made them.

But it would be a bit churlish to do so: he won the referendum, after all.

The bit that made me laugh from the story was this report of a phone call between Brown and Cameron:

‘Gordon Brown couldn’t resist saying: “I’m the saviour of the world, and you take my advice,” ’ the source revealed.

Brown really is delusional.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

JackW · September 2015

@MrTimT

My record on calling US Presidential elections says not

SquareRoot · September 2015

You missed out this bit |!!!!!!!!!!!!

"But there were simmering tensions from the start, which developed into constant rivalry and infighting. Nor did it help that former Prime Minister Gordon Brown — who harboured a bitter grudge against Alistair Darling — was often bad-tempered and unco-operative.

There was one particularly exasperating telephone exchange between campaign director Blair McDougall — a Labour activist — and Gordon Brown.

While they were still speaking, McDougall scrawled the word ‘loon’ on a piece of paper and held it aloft for his colleagues to see. They struggled to hide their mirth.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html#ixzz3mdJRB67b
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

HAHAHAHAHAHA !!!

CarlottaVance · September 2015

DecrepitJohnL said:

SquareRoot said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.
It is difficult to think of anything that Brown touched that ended up well.
Gordon Brown: he saved the pound; he saved the world; he saved the union.

From the Daily Mail's serialisation of Ashcroft's homage to Dave:

In the final fortnight, however, Brown threw himself into the campaign, delivering a series of barnstorming speeches across Scotland. His final speech, the day before the vote, ‘was just the most powerful 15-minute speech I’ve ever heard in my life’, says a Tory member of the No team.

As old divisions healed, Brown even started working closely with Cameron. Indeed, after the Prime Minister’s depressing weekend at Balmoral, the two men actually spoke on the phone to each other every day. Cameron’s final speech was even sent to Brown for approval.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

No doubt for reason of space....you missed [EDIT: another]a bit:

According to a No 10 insider, the Prime Minister had to bite his tongue as his predecessor lectured him on how he should have run the campaign.

‘Gordon Brown couldn’t resist saying: “I’m the saviour of the world, and you take my advice,” ’ the source revealed.

Cameron’s view, he says, was indulgent. ‘That’s Gordon,’ said the Prime Minister, wisely refusing to rise to the bait.

DavidL · September 2015

Got a reception with 50 odd Texan litigators tonight who are over as guests of the Scottish bar. It will be interesting to see what they think about the Republican field. I think I am right their own governor has already dropped out. How he ever thought he could be in again after the three thing fiasco the last time is one of the mysteries of US politics to me.

Will also be interested to see if the Hilary e-mail thing is getting any traction. Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

If you believe the Ashcroft Indy ref account - and there seems no reason not to - it is clear that Cameron was/is a committed Unionist, strongly identifies as British and understood the enormity of the consequences of a Yes vote and that he would have resigned if No had lost. That stands to reason - you can't preside over the break-up of a 300 year old state and carry on regardless.

Moving forward that tells us:
1. There will be no further Westminster-sanctioned Indy referendums while he is PM.
2. The government is likely to give ground on the Scotland Act.
3. Whoever takes over as PM is going to be crucial to whether the Union survives. Osborne probably cares, Boris probably doesn't.

I expect it'll all be over in 10 years.

PClipp · September 2015

felix said:
Also makes Tim Farron' s speech yesterday look even more mind-numbingly stupid. All we need now is for Labour to abandon the welfare cap and Trident at their conference....

Mr Felix, I have the impression that you are a hard-line reactionary Tory, so I would not expect you to be impressed by Tim Farron. But perhaps he was not expecting you and your kind to be persuaded. Possibly, just possibly, he was trying to appeal to a more liberal kind of voter.

CarlottaVance · September 2015

DavidL said:
Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.

You could always talk about FREEDOM!!!!!.......

RobD · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

SquareRoot said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.
It is difficult to think of anything that Brown touched that ended up well.
Gordon Brown: he saved the pound; he saved the world; he saved the union.

From the Daily Mail's serialisation of Ashcroft's homage to Dave:

In the final fortnight, however, Brown threw himself into the campaign, delivering a series of barnstorming speeches across Scotland. His final speech, the day before the vote, ‘was just the most powerful 15-minute speech I’ve ever heard in my life’, says a Tory member of the No team.

As old divisions healed, Brown even started working closely with Cameron. Indeed, after the Prime Minister’s depressing weekend at Balmoral, the two men actually spoke on the phone to each other every day. Cameron’s final speech was even sent to Brown for approval.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html
No doubt for reason of space....you missed [EDIT: another]a bit:

According to a No 10 insider, the Prime Minister had to bite his tongue as his predecessor lectured him on how he should have run the campaign.

‘Gordon Brown couldn’t resist saying: “I’m the saviour of the world, and you take my advice,” ’ the source revealed.

Cameron’s view, he says, was indulgent. ‘That’s Gordon,’ said the Prime Minister, wisely refusing to rise to the bait.

He's got nothing on Flash, 'saviour of the universe'.

david_herdson · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:
"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.

Even if Cameron hadn't been telling the truth about Ashcroft's non-dom status, if wouldn't really matter now. It's a Westminster story from years ago involving an embittered ex-colleague and a PM who's not going to stand for election again. I doubt the general public would care much, if at all. And there's no compelling evidence to suggest Cameron was lying.

Labour played the Ashcroft card continually, as far back as pre-2005. It made little difference then; it will make less now given that Ashcroft's influence is now nil or negative.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

PClipp said:

felix said:
Also makes Tim Farron' s speech yesterday look even more mind-numbingly stupid. All we need now is for Labour to abandon the welfare cap and Trident at their conference....
Mr Felix, I have the impression that you are a hard-line reactionary Tory, so I would not expect you to be impressed by Tim Farron. But perhaps he was not expecting you and your kind to be persuaded. Possibly, just possibly, he was trying to appeal to a more liberal kind of voter.

The LDs know they will never win a GE, but there is a portion of the vote to win (back).

DecrepitJohnL · September 2015

MTimT said:

A very European misunderstanding of US politics simply because you find GOP policies too far to the right and too religious. From a European perspective, the GOP is full of turnips. From the US perspective, most political commentators of both stripes think - policy differences, Trump, Carson and Fiorina aside - that it is a highly experienced and strong field. In contrast, many Dems are ruing how weak their field is, with all their eggs in the Hillary basket.

If we ignore the three front-runners, the rest of the GOP field is strong? Well, perhaps. We may find out how they stand up to scrutiny if and when they ever pass the three non-Establishment candidates. (Though fwiw, I've backed Kasich.)

DavidL · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:

DavidL said:
Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.
You could always talk about FREEDOM!!!!!.......

Or how long the new coats of paint in the reading room take to dry.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

david_herdson said:

JosiasJessop said:
"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.
Even if Cameron hadn't been telling the truth about Ashcroft's non-dom status, if wouldn't really matter now. It's a Westminster story from years ago involving an embittered ex-colleague and a PM who's not going to stand for election again. I doubt the general public would care much, if at all. And there's no compelling evidence to suggest Cameron was lying.

Labour played the Ashcroft card continually, as far back as pre-2005. It made little difference then; it will make less now given that Ashcroft's influence is now nil or negative.

If he didn't tell the truth he lied. That may not harm him politically, but it will still be the case. Surely that matters in some way.

DecrepitJohnL · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:

DecrepitJohnL said:

SquareRoot said:

Alanbrooke said:

CarlottaVance said:
If anyone comes badly out of the 'Frosty Breakfast' (ho! ho!) story, it's Brown:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html

Remember how terribly keen the Nats were for Cameron to debate Salmond - nay, insisting that it was bound to happen.....
Cameron played the Indyref spot on. The only mistake was letting himself go along with the so called Vow. he should have held his nerve and not listened to Brown. But otherwise the Nats were outplayed.
It is difficult to think of anything that Brown touched that ended up well.
Gordon Brown: he saved the pound; he saved the world; he saved the union.

From the Daily Mail's serialisation of Ashcroft's homage to Dave:

In the final fortnight, however, Brown threw himself into the campaign, delivering a series of barnstorming speeches across Scotland. His final speech, the day before the vote, ‘was just the most powerful 15-minute speech I’ve ever heard in my life’, says a Tory member of the No team.

As old divisions healed, Brown even started working closely with Cameron. Indeed, after the Prime Minister’s depressing weekend at Balmoral, the two men actually spoke on the phone to each other every day. Cameron’s final speech was even sent to Brown for approval.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3246796/Dave-frosty-breakfast-Queen-Balmoral-showdown-Scottish-crisis-left-PM-terrified-humbled.html
No doubt for reason of space....you missed [EDIT: another]a bit:

According to a No 10 insider, the Prime Minister had to bite his tongue as his predecessor lectured him on how he should have run the campaign.

‘Gordon Brown couldn’t resist saying: “I’m the saviour of the world, and you take my advice,” ’ the source revealed.

Cameron’s view, he says, was indulgent. ‘That’s Gordon,’ said the Prime Minister, wisely refusing to rise to the bait.

But Cameron did take Brown's advice ("the two men actually spoke on the phone to each other every day. Cameron’s final speech was even sent to Brown for approval") and the union is once more safe for turnips from Land's End to John o' Groats.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

DavidL said:
Got a reception with 50 odd Texan litigators tonight who are over as guests of the Scottish bar. It will be interesting to see what they think about the Republican field. I think I am right their own governor has already dropped out. How he ever thought he could be in again after the three thing fiasco the last time is one of the mysteries of US politics to me.

Will also be interested to see if the Hilary e-mail thing is getting any traction. Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.

Careful. I got a lot of my Romney victory convictions from talking to American litigators. I was listening to the wrong people.

DavidL · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:
Got a reception with 50 odd Texan litigators tonight who are over as guests of the Scottish bar. It will be interesting to see what they think about the Republican field. I think I am right their own governor has already dropped out. How he ever thought he could be in again after the three thing fiasco the last time is one of the mysteries of US politics to me.

Will also be interested to see if the Hilary e-mail thing is getting any traction. Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.

Careful. I got a lot of my Romney victory convictions from talking to American litigators. I was listening to the wrong people.

Extremely modest and self effacing of you to bring this up SO!

I can't imagine well established lawyers (who can afford a week long jolly to Scotland) taking the likes of Trump even vaguely seriously but we shall see.

peter_from_putney · September 2015

O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

DavidL · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

david_herdson said:

JosiasJessop said:
"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.
Even if Cameron hadn't been telling the truth about Ashcroft's non-dom status, if wouldn't really matter now. It's a Westminster story from years ago involving an embittered ex-colleague and a PM who's not going to stand for election again. I doubt the general public would care much, if at all. And there's no compelling evidence to suggest Cameron was lying.

Labour played the Ashcroft card continually, as far back as pre-2005. It made little difference then; it will make less now given that Ashcroft's influence is now nil or negative.

If he didn't tell the truth he lied. That may not harm him politically, but it will still be the case. Surely that matters in some way.

I may be wrong but I think the embarrassment caused by Ashcroft's tax affairs and the level of evasion he deployed about them completely soured his relationship with Cameron in the run up to the 2010 election, hence the falling out afterwards. If I had to put money on it I would guess that Cameron felt misled.

Cameron is loyal to his friends and those who are loyal to him but holds grudges against those who cross him as well as anyone in politics. Ask David Davis.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

DavidL said:

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:
Got a reception with 50 odd Texan litigators tonight who are over as guests of the Scottish bar. It will be interesting to see what they think about the Republican field. I think I am right their own governor has already dropped out. How he ever thought he could be in again after the three thing fiasco the last time is one of the mysteries of US politics to me.

Will also be interested to see if the Hilary e-mail thing is getting any traction. Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.

Careful. I got a lot of my Romney victory convictions from talking to American litigators. I was listening to the wrong people.

Extremely modest and self effacing of you to bring this up SO!

I can't imagine well established lawyers (who can afford a week long jolly to Scotland) taking the likes of Trump even vaguely seriously but we shall see.

Just so long as you remember that wealthy Texan lawyers are not the key demographic! What you need is a group of median wage earning, white, swing state voters mixed with some hispanics from the same states. I never got near any of those except in bars and hotel dining rooms.

chestnut · September 2015

I recall that during the election the non-dom issue was supposed to be a game-changer.

As ever, the public chose to disappoint and decided that they simply didn't want some ban the bomb, high tax, high welfare politician having a significant say.

I'd be surprised if much has changed.

Corbyn Labour and the Greens are verging on indistinguishable now that the Greens have decided that putting terrorists out of business is a bad thing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34339925

JosiasJessop · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle.

(**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.

Pulpstar · September 2015

chestnut said:

As ever, the public chose to disappoint and decided that they simply didn't want some ban the bomb, high tax, high welfare politician having a significant say.

I agree that Miliband was left wing economically, but he was in favour of trident I thought ?

DavidL · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.
What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle. (**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.

I can believe it about Yes city though. Dundee is doing itself no favours at all with this sort of nonsense. The only real successes in Dundee in recent years have been the extremely international Games industry and the Life Sciences developments connected to the University which receives a lot of UK research money.

Our High Street seems to be wall to wall coffee shops these days but there doesn't seem to be a lot of smelling going on.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

DavidL said:

SouthamObserver said:

david_herdson said:

JosiasJessop said:
"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.
Even if Cameron hadn't been telling the truth about Ashcroft's non-dom status, if wouldn't really matter now. It's a Westminster story from years ago involving an embittered ex-colleague and a PM who's not going to stand for election again. I doubt the general public would care much, if at all. And there's no compelling evidence to suggest Cameron was lying.

Labour played the Ashcroft card continually, as far back as pre-2005. It made little difference then; it will make less now given that Ashcroft's influence is now nil or negative.

If he didn't tell the truth he lied. That may not harm him politically, but it will still be the case. Surely that matters in some way.

I may be wrong but I think the embarrassment caused by Ashcroft's tax affairs and the level of evasion he deployed about them completely soured his relationship with Cameron in the run up to the 2010 election, hence the falling out afterwards. If I had to put money on it I would guess that Cameron felt misled.

Cameron is loyal to his friends and those who are loyal to him but holds grudges against those who cross him as well as anyone in politics. Ask David Davis.

I have no idea. I don't think it's that big a deal because politicians calling other politicians out for fibbing is ludicrous. They all do it. As do we. This was never a Big Lie, if it was a lie at all. But a lie is a lie nevertheless. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. All of which is a roundabout way of saying: "Who cares?" Thus, I answer my own question to Mr Herdson by essentially agreeing with him.

CarlottaVance · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:
Got a reception with 50 odd Texan litigators tonight who are over as guests of the Scottish bar. It will be interesting to see what they think about the Republican field. I think I am right their own governor has already dropped out. How he ever thought he could be in again after the three thing fiasco the last time is one of the mysteries of US politics to me.

Will also be interested to see if the Hilary e-mail thing is getting any traction. Of course there is a risk that they might want to talk about law but I try to avoid that wherever possible. It is just too dull.

Careful. I got a lot of my Romney victory convictions from talking to American litigators. I was listening to the wrong people.

Extremely modest and self effacing of you to bring this up SO!

I can't imagine well established lawyers (who can afford a week long jolly to Scotland) taking the likes of Trump even vaguely seriously but we shall see.

Just so long as you remember that wealthy Texan lawyers are not the key demographic! What you need is a group of median wage earning, white, swing state voters mixed with some hispanics from the same states. I never got near any of those except in bars and hotel dining rooms.

Or wealthy Texans - overheard in run up to last US Presidential election - 'Obama's finished - even my black maid says he's not going to win'

Which reminds me of one of the things I like about Washington DC - in restaurants nice middle class black families being waited on by nice working class white folks.....in contrast with much of the rest of the country.....

JosiasJessop · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:
If you believe the Ashcroft Indy ref account - and there seems no reason not to - it is clear that Cameron was/is a committed Unionist, strongly identifies as British and understood the enormity of the consequences of a Yes vote and that he would have resigned if No had lost. That stands to reason - you can't preside over the break-up of a 300 year old state and carry on regardless.

Moving forward that tells us:
1. There will be no further Westminster-sanctioned Indy referendums while he is PM.
2. The government is likely to give ground on the Scotland Act.
3. Whoever takes over as PM is going to be crucial to whether the Union survives. Osborne probably cares, Boris probably doesn't.

I expect it'll all be over in 10 years.

"... that he would have resigned if No had lost. That stands to reason "

No, it doesn't, for a host of reasons. A 'Yes' vote would have led to the immediate start of negotiations, and Cameron would have realised that resigning immediately would have caused chaos and put 'our' side of the negotiations on the back foot.

peter_from_putney · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.
What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle. (**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.

On the other side of the coin, the five happiest places in the UK were found to be:
1. Fermanagh and Omagh
2. Ribble Valley
3. Eilean Siar (wherever that might be!)
4. West Somerset
5. Orkney Islands

Taken as a group, not exactly the first five places which would immediately spring to mind.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

JosiasJessop · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.
What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle. (**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.
On the other side of the coin, the five happiest places in the UK were found to be:
1. Fermanagh and Omagh
2. Ribble Valley
3. Eilean Siar (wherever that might be!)
4. West Somerset
5. Orkney Islands

Taken as a group, not exactly the first five places which would immediately spring to mind.

Eilean Siar is the home of the following illustrious broadcasting organisation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqOQAl_MrcM

Alanbrooke · September 2015

Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow

Alanbrooke · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Scrapheap_as_was · September 2015

Spurs lose to Arsenal
Liverpool are Spurs -1 season

The revelations keep on coming

PClipp · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

PClipp said:
Mr Felix, I have the impression that you are a hard-line reactionary Tory, so I would not expect you to be impressed by Tim Farron. But perhaps he was not expecting you and your kind to be persuaded. Possibly, just possibly, he was trying to appeal to a more liberal kind of voter.

The LDs know they will never win a GE, but there is a portion of the vote to win (back).

Apparently there has been another flood of new members following Tim Farron´s speech yesterday, Mr Observer. Not as many as last time, of course, but very encouraging none the less.

It will be interesting to see how many join the Lib Dems after the Labour and Tory conferences

OldKingCole · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:

SouthamObserver said:

david_herdson said:

JosiasJessop said:
"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.
Even if Cameron hadn't been telling the truth about Ashcroft's non-dom status, if wouldn't really matter now. It's a Westminster story from years ago involving an embittered ex-colleague and a PM who's not going to stand for election again. I doubt the general public would care much, if at all. And there's no compelling evidence to suggest Cameron was lying.

Labour played the Ashcroft card continually, as far back as pre-2005. It made little difference then; it will make less now given that Ashcroft's influence is now nil or negative.

If he didn't tell the truth he lied. That may not harm him politically, but it will still be the case. Surely that matters in some way.

I may be wrong but I think the embarrassment caused by Ashcroft's tax affairs and the level of evasion he deployed about them completely soured his relationship with Cameron in the run up to the 2010 election, hence the falling out afterwards. If I had to put money on it I would guess that Cameron felt misled.

Cameron is loyal to his friends and those who are loyal to him but holds grudges against those who cross him as well as anyone in politics. Ask David Davis.

I have no idea. I don't think it's that big a deal because politicians calling other politicians out for fibbing is ludicrous. They all do it. As do we. This was never a Big Lie, if it was a lie at all. But a lie is a lie nevertheless. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. All of which is a roundabout way of saying: "Who cares?" Thus, I answer my own question to Mr Herdson by essentially agreeing with him.

Someone wisely posted yesterday that much of the public assumes that all the Tories biggest donors are fiddling the system somehow and generally ignores it.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Ha, ha. We're booming!

malcolmg · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'

Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658

Alanbrooke · September 2015

OldKingCole said:

SouthamObserver said:

DavidL said:

SouthamObserver said:

david_herdson said:

JosiasJessop said:
"The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on."

Yes, but it will only really have heat if Ashcroft has documentary evidence (e.g. emails) between the two of them indicating that Cameron knew. Otherwise it becomes a case of conflicting testimonies, and the fact that Ashcroft is obviously suffering from some form of revenge madness damages his testimony.
Even if Cameron hadn't been telling the truth about Ashcroft's non-dom status, if wouldn't really matter now. It's a Westminster story from years ago involving an embittered ex-colleague and a PM who's not going to stand for election again. I doubt the general public would care much, if at all. And there's no compelling evidence to suggest Cameron was lying.

Labour played the Ashcroft card continually, as far back as pre-2005. It made little difference then; it will make less now given that Ashcroft's influence is now nil or negative.

If he didn't tell the truth he lied. That may not harm him politically, but it will still be the case. Surely that matters in some way.

I may be wrong but I think the embarrassment caused by Ashcroft's tax affairs and the level of evasion he deployed about them completely soured his relationship with Cameron in the run up to the 2010 election, hence the falling out afterwards. If I had to put money on it I would guess that Cameron felt misled.

Cameron is loyal to his friends and those who are loyal to him but holds grudges against those who cross him as well as anyone in politics. Ask David Davis.

I have no idea. I don't think it's that big a deal because politicians calling other politicians out for fibbing is ludicrous. They all do it. As do we. This was never a Big Lie, if it was a lie at all. But a lie is a lie nevertheless. I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure. All of which is a roundabout way of saying: "Who cares?" Thus, I answer my own question to Mr Herdson by essentially agreeing with him.
Someone wisely posted yesterday that much of the public assumes that all the Tories biggest donors are fiddling the system somehow and generally ignores it.

Volkswagen give money to the Tories ?

malcolmg · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.
What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle. (**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.
On the other side of the coin, the five happiest places in the UK were found to be:
1. Fermanagh and Omagh
2. Ribble Valley
3. Eilean Siar (wherever that might be!)
4. West Somerset
5. Orkney Islands

Taken as a group, not exactly the first five places which would immediately spring to mind.
Eilean Siar is the home of the following illustrious broadcasting organisation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqOQAl_MrcM

It is of course the Western Isles

Morris_Dancer · September 2015

Good morning, everyone.

F1: Perez stays at Force India. Had been some murmurings he might be off elsewhere (perhaps Lotus), but no:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/34344137

On-topic: sounds like the Big Book of Revenge has some lurid claims even the author* won't defend as true and many pages of tedium.

*Has Ashcroft been interviewed about his book?

JosiasJessop · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

Yet Bolsover has elected Dennis Skinner - a high-profile MP - for forty-five years, and they are apparently still very unhappy. Has he actually done anything to improve the lot of his constituents over that period?

Alanbrooke · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Ha, ha. We're booming!

yes but are you happy ?

as someone who gets it in the neck every so often on PB for being a miserable bastard it appears I've always lived in some of the happiest places in the UK. So what are the rest of you like ? :-)

RobD · September 2015

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'
Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658

So Scottish A&E waiting times are worse than three years ago? Thanks for the update, malc

malcolmg · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Sounds just about how a condescending Tory would think, probably completely inaccurate but highlights how the nasty party think.

HurstLlama · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow

I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.

JosiasJessop · September 2015

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.
What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle. (**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.
On the other side of the coin, the five happiest places in the UK were found to be:
1. Fermanagh and Omagh
2. Ribble Valley
3. Eilean Siar (wherever that might be!)
4. West Somerset
5. Orkney Islands

Taken as a group, not exactly the first five places which would immediately spring to mind.
Eilean Siar is the home of the following illustrious broadcasting organisation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqOQAl_MrcM
It is of course the Western Isles

Otherwise known as the Outer Hebrides.

I've never been there, and really want to go. I've got an offer of a bed from a friend on one of the islands, but I never get the chance to go. Mind you, I'd just end up walking around their coasts, although it might be a bit quicker to do than the mainland.

Casino_Royale · September 2015

malcolmg said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.
Sounds just about how a condescending Tory would think, probably completely inaccurate but highlights how the nasty party think.

If you are on benefits, don't have a job or much money, you are far more likely to have low self-esteem and be unhappy.

malcolmg · September 2015

RobD said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11885688/First-council-in-Britain-starts-monthly-bin-collections.html

Bins out for four weeks before being collected. Lovely.

You a bit confused this morning Rob. I think you will find that they are trialling four weekly collections, not leaving them on the street for 4 weeks.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Ha, ha. We're booming!

yes but are you happy ?

as someone who gets it in the neck every so often on PB for being a miserable bastard it appears I've always lived in some of the happiest places in the UK. So what are the rest of you like ? :-)

Were it not for Tottenham Hotspur and Jeremy Corbyn life would be a great big bowl of cherries. But I get by.

Truth be told, Life has given me everything and more I could ever have wanted. I have been blessed.

RobD · September 2015

malcolmg said:

RobD said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/environment/11885688/First-council-in-Britain-starts-monthly-bin-collections.html

Bins out for four weeks before being collected. Lovely.
You a bit confused this morning Rob. I think you will find that they are trialling four weekly collections, not leaving them on the street for 4 weeks.

Well, the rubbish will be left for four weeks without collection.

malcolmg · September 2015

RobD said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'
Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658
So Scottish A&E waiting times are worse than three years ago? Thanks for the update, malc

Rob , have you got the wrong specs on today.

Alanbrooke · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Ha, ha. We're booming!

yes but are you happy ?

as someone who gets it in the neck every so often on PB for being a miserable bastard it appears I've always lived in some of the happiest places in the UK. So what are the rest of you like ? :-)

Were it not for Tottenham Hotspur and Jeremy Corbyn life would be a great big bowl of cherries. But I get by.

Truth be told, Life has given me everything and more I could ever have wanted. I have been blessed.

Bull giraffe's feel emasulated as they stand by you in the urinals. :-)

JosiasJessop · September 2015

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.

If I can out my tuppence-worth in (*), I'm intrigued about the rail one. You may have noticed that one of my themes on PB for the last few years has been a call for an inquiry into why major construction projects have increased in cost so much over the last few decades.

It'll be interesting to see if a major foreign construction firm can follow all our rules and regulations, yet build much cheaper than our home grown Balfours, Costains and Laings.

(*) Possibly over-valued at that.

malcolmg · September 2015

Casino_Royale said:

malcolmg said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.
Sounds just about how a condescending Tory would think, probably completely inaccurate but highlights how the nasty party think.
If you are on benefits, don't have a job or much money, you are far more likely to have low self-esteem and be unhappy.

Where did Putty head point that out, he made a condescending remark from ignorance that they were all deluged with benefits. Also the two do not have to apply, must be some people not working who are happy. Frothers on here keep pointing on that they are having the times of their lives , deluged in benefits, living the high life.

SouthamObserver · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Ha, ha. We're booming!

yes but are you happy ?

as someone who gets it in the neck every so often on PB for being a miserable bastard it appears I've always lived in some of the happiest places in the UK. So what are the rest of you like ? :-)

Were it not for Tottenham Hotspur and Jeremy Corbyn life would be a great big bowl of cherries. But I get by.

Truth be told, Life has given me everything and more I could ever have wanted. I have been blessed.

Bull giraffe's feel emasulated as they stand by you in the urinals. :-)

They don't bother these days. They find it too intomidating. I hang out with the elephants, so to speak.

Alanbrooke · September 2015

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.

4 king ridiuclous.

we have 2000 jobs heading down the bowl in Redcar because of Chinese steel, HMG can borrow cheaper than Chinese banks but we still issue guarantees and now we knife our own construction companies.

GO is just useless.

richardDodd · September 2015

Re Skinner..and as i pointed out yesterday... the only thing he has improved during his time as an MP are his bank account and his massive pension fund..

Alanbrooke · September 2015

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

Alanbrooke said:

SouthamObserver said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

Yes, no doubt it is miserable living somewhere that feels left behind, where jobs, when they exist, are low paid and you can't get by on what you earn.

that's enough about Leamington Spa

Ha, ha. We're booming!

yes but are you happy ?

as someone who gets it in the neck every so often on PB for being a miserable bastard it appears I've always lived in some of the happiest places in the UK. So what are the rest of you like ? :-)

Were it not for Tottenham Hotspur and Jeremy Corbyn life would be a great big bowl of cherries. But I get by.

Truth be told, Life has given me everything and more I could ever have wanted. I have been blessed.

Bull giraffe's feel emasulated as they stand by you in the urinals. :-)

They don't bother these days. They find it too intomidating. I hang out with the elephants, so to speak.

you can title your memoires "Musting in Leamington"

MarqueeMark · September 2015

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.

Perhaps it's simply my my imagination, but is it not the the case that the inhabitants of most if not all these areas are deluged with state benefits.

That's a handy stat for the PM, the next time the Beast asks one of his fatuous questions...

OldKingCole · September 2015

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.

We often disagree, Mr L, but on this we are at one.

Once upon a time British nuclear (and other) engineers were among the world’s best. What’s happened?
And why is a Conservative Government disposing of British interest in industry in this fashion?

malcolmg · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:

malcolmg said:

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:

JosiasJessop said:

peter_from_putney said:
O/T

According to a poll of 165,000 adults Office for National Statistics, Bolsover in Derbyshire came lowest for happiness, worthiness and life satisfaction.

What a truly beastly finding.

In the same poll, Bolsover was followed by: 2. Cannock Chase 3. Dundee 4. Dover 5. Liverpool.
What's Dennis Skinner been doing to better the lives of his constituents for the last 45 years? Apparently not much.

I'm surprised about Cannock Chase being so low (*). Haven't we a semi-regular posted from that area?

(*) Mind you, I was last on the chase a couple of years ago, when I was in the company of a rather large rifle. (**)
(**) I know men shouldn't brag about the size of their guns, but in this case it was my sister's. Phnar phnar.
On the other side of the coin, the five happiest places in the UK were found to be:
1. Fermanagh and Omagh
2. Ribble Valley
3. Eilean Siar (wherever that might be!)
4. West Somerset
5. Orkney Islands

Taken as a group, not exactly the first five places which would immediately spring to mind.
Eilean Siar is the home of the following illustrious broadcasting organisation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqOQAl_MrcM
It is of course the Western Isles
Otherwise known as the Outer Hebrides.

I've never been there, and really want to go. I've got an offer of a bed from a friend on one of the islands, but I never get the chance to go. Mind you, I'd just end up walking around their coasts, although it might be a bit quicker to do than the mainland.

I have not been there in a long time, many moons ago I worked on conversion of the telephone exchanges to auto dial from operator dialling. Barra, North and South Uist and Benbecula. Was very little tourism there at that time , just a few bed and breakfasts. Spectactular but rough in winter, think Barra had one tree that was horizontal. Incredible white beaches mind you.

Alanbrooke · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.
If I can out my tuppence-worth in (*), I'm intrigued about the rail one. You may have noticed that one of my themes on PB for the last few years has been a call for an inquiry into why major construction projects have increased in cost so much over the last few decades.

It'll be interesting to see if a major foreign construction firm can follow all our rules and regulations, yet build much cheaper than our home grown Balfours, Costains and Laings.

(*) Possibly over-valued at that.

Having bid on a few rail related contracts over time, I suggest you look at HMG's serial inability to issue a spec and hold to it.

One of my major customers is currently pulling his hair out on a project that should have been placed back in March but still no order as the mobile goalposts just won't stay still.

CarlottaVance · September 2015

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'
Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658

So, its worse than three years ago, and....

The figures showed that activity at A&E departments was at its lowest level for July in the past five years, with staff dealing with 131,948 cases.

Well done, NHS Scotland!

Morris_Dancer · September 2015

F1: just a reminder that the timezone difference means the pre-qualifying piece will be up tomorrow.

Qualifying is at 6am on Saturday. The race start is 5am on Sunday. The reason for the quite early start is to give more daylight towards the end of the race, particularly if it's extended due to a red flag, following the accident Bianchi suffered last year (this early start time applies to a couple of other races as well, I think).

Freggles · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.
4 king ridiuclous.

we have 2000 jobs heading down the bowl in Redcar because of Chinese steel, HMG can borrow cheaper than Chinese banks but we still issue guarantees and now we knife our own construction companies.

GO is just useless.

Yeah, but if they borrowed to rescue SSI that would increase the deficit whereas letting it go bust just creates more 'feckless scroungers' to feed the government narrative. Funny money from China and 'loan guarantees' keeps the real costs off the books

redcliffe62 · September 2015

I think the revelation that the Queen did indeed interfere in the referendum at the behest of Cameron is a major story even if it does not resonate within the M25. Trying to define how far she could go by leaks which were then reported as royal sources in purdah period broke many rules.
Queen Elizabeth the First of Britain is clearly Queen Elizabeth the Second of England at heart. Fair enough, but do not complain when royalty despite Witchell's fawnings continues to be as popular as a fart in a spacesuit north of the Tweed.

OldKingCole · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

JosiasJessop said:

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.
If I can out my tuppence-worth in (*), I'm intrigued about the rail one. You may have noticed that one of my themes on PB for the last few years has been a call for an inquiry into why major construction projects have increased in cost so much over the last few decades.

It'll be interesting to see if a major foreign construction firm can follow all our rules and regulations, yet build much cheaper than our home grown Balfours, Costains and Laings.

(*) Possibly over-valued at that.
Having bid on a few rail related contracts over time, I suggest you look at HMG's serial inability to issue a spec and hold to it.

One of my major customers is currently pulling his hair out on a project that should have been placed back in March but still no order as the mobile goalposts just won't stay still.

It’s those damn’ badgers again!

malcolmg · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'
Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658
So, its worse than three years ago, and....

The figures showed that activity at A&E departments was at its lowest level for July in the past five years, with staff dealing with 131,948 cases.

Well done, NHS Scotland!

Yes so good that they are doing themselves out of a job. We are all strapping healthy specimens now and don't need to visit A&E.
You do love to turn success into failure.

JosiasJessop · September 2015

Alanbrooke said:

JosiasJessop said:

HurstLlama said:

Alanbrooke said:
Has there ever been a dafter trade mission than the current visit to China

- we offer them loan guarantees
- football bungs
- access to our rail contracts

Surely the point is we sell to them.

Osborne is China's best salesman.

#kowtow
I am very pleased to read that, Mr. Brooke. I had thought it was only me that felt Osborne's trip and announcements were daft, if not completely bonkers. I was beginning to fear that I was losing my marbles as so many people seem to think that giving China bungs was a good idea and inviting them to come and asset strip even better.
If I can out my tuppence-worth in (*), I'm intrigued about the rail one. You may have noticed that one of my themes on PB for the last few years has been a call for an inquiry into why major construction projects have increased in cost so much over the last few decades.

It'll be interesting to see if a major foreign construction firm can follow all our rules and regulations, yet build much cheaper than our home grown Balfours, Costains and Laings.

(*) Possibly over-valued at that.
Having bid on a few rail related contracts over time, I suggest you look at HMG's serial inability to issue a spec and hold to it.

One of my major customers is currently pulling his hair out on a project that should have been placed back in March but still no order as the mobile goalposts just won't stay still.

You might be right on that. But I suspect that it's far from the whole problem, and especially in the rail industry (the awful IEP project aside).

The rail industry does not help itself in its inability to meet promised goals (see Network Rail's many failures).

On another point, governments have always moved goalposts, so why the massive increase we've seen over the last couple of decades?

malcolmg · September 2015

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'
Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658
So, its worse than three years ago, and....

The figures showed that activity at A&E departments was at its lowest level for July in the past five years, with staff dealing with 131,948 cases.

Well done, NHS Scotland!

Can you not read , activity = patients, clue , lowest in 3 years means less needing treatment and all treated much quicker.

SimonStClare · September 2015

Morning all.

As the Daily Mail revelations slowly fizzle out, much to everyone’s disappointment, the old adage “He who seeks vengeance must dig two graves one for his enemy & one for himself” never was more apt. – Meanwhile, Isabel Oakeshott’s career is in A+E on life support.

RobD · September 2015

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:

malcolmg said:

CarlottaVance said:
The big political issue that the book has raised is the timing of Cameron’s knowledge of Lord Ashcroft non Dom status. That could go on.

Yes, but. Politically it is the most damaging, but since its been buried in a tidal wave of effluent and trivia it will be easy to bat away with 'How can anyone believe anything from an author who claims x y & z.....'
Carlotta, in case you missed it, I know it is one of your favourite concerns:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34113658
So, its worse than three years ago, and....

The figures showed that activity at A&E departments was at its lowest level for July in the past five years, with staff dealing with 131,948 cases.

Well done, NHS Scotland!
Can you not read , activity = patients, clue , lowest in 3 years means less needing treatment and all treated much quicker.

So on a lower bar, they are still worse than three years ago

foxinsoxuk · September 2015

richardDodd said:
Re Skinner..and as i pointed out yesterday... the only thing he has improved during his time as an MP are his bank account and his massive pension fund..

As he continues to work into his eighties the pension is a nominal asset rather than an actual one. I cannot see him receiving it for long.

Interesting to see that the top 5 locations are all a long way from the centres of power in London (and edinburgh for that matter).

We are left with that age old question. Is it the pig that makes the sty or the sty that makes the pig?

RobD · September 2015

redcliffe62 said:
I think the revelation that the Queen did indeed interfere in the referendum at the behest of Cameron is a major story even if it does not resonate within the M25. Trying to define how far she could go by leaks which were then reported as royal sources in purdah period broke many rules.
Queen Elizabeth the First of Britain is clearly Queen Elizabeth the Second of England at heart. Fair enough, but do not complain when royalty despite Witchell's fawnings continues to be as popular as a fart in a spacesuit north of the Tweed.

I'm sorry, that was a revelation? I thought it was common knowledge.

JosiasJessop · September 2015

Morris_Dancer said:
F1: just a reminder that the timezone difference means the pre-qualifying piece will be up tomorrow.

Qualifying is at 6am on Saturday. The race start is 5am on Sunday. The reason for the quite early start is to give more daylight towards the end of the race, particularly if it's extended due to a red flag, following the accident Bianchi suffered last year (this early start time applies to a couple of other races as well, I think).

I see Red Bull are throwing their toys out of the pram once again:
http://planetf1.com/news/red-bull-want-engine-parity-with-ferrari/

I'm starting to think that F1 will be better off without their involvement, *if* the team can be saved.

Demanding engine parity, ffs. If they really wanted that then they should just develop their own engine or, just perhaps, not treat the engine supplier with which they had four years of success so disgracefully.

Who'd want to supply them given the way they've treated Renault?

tlg86 · September 2015

JosiasJessop said:

Morris_Dancer said:
F1: just a reminder that the timezone difference means the pre-qualifying piece will be up tomorrow.

Qualifying is at 6am on Saturday. The race start is 5am on Sunday. The reason for the quite early start is to give more daylight towards the end of the race, particularly if it's extended due to a red flag, following the accident Bianchi suffered last year (this early start time applies to a couple of other races as well, I think).
I see Red Bull are throwing their toys out of the pram once again:
http://planetf1.com/news/red-bull-want-engine-parity-with-ferrari/

I'm starting to think that F1 will be better off without their involvement, *if* the team can be saved.

Demanding engine parity, ffs. If they really wanted that then they should just develop their own engine or, just perhaps, not treat the engine supplier with which they had four years of success so disgracefully.

Who'd want to supply them given the way they've treated Renault?

So, I don't follow it as closely as I used to, but in the lead up to the new rules I definitely got the sense that the rules had been designed by Mercedes. The problem is there is not in season testing or development. You have what you have, which means after the first race we know who's won.

Pulpstar · September 2015

redcliffe62 said:
I think the revelation that the Queen did indeed interfere in the referendum at the behest of Cameron is a major story even if it does not resonate within the M25.

I was watching the Scottish referendum more closely than most (Weren't we all) and can't recall a 'royal intervention' once ?

“people will think very carefully about the future” is as much as I'm getting from Google.

JosiasJessop · September 2015

tlg86 said:

JosiasJessop said:

Morris_Dancer said:
F1: just a reminder that the timezone difference means the pre-qualifying piece will be up tomorrow.

Qualifying is at 6am on Saturday. The race start is 5am on Sunday. The reason for the quite early start is to give more daylight towards the end of the race, particularly if it's extended due to a red flag, following the accident Bianchi suffered last year (this early start time applies to a couple of other races as well, I think).
I see Red Bull are throwing their toys out of the pram once again:
http://planetf1.com/news/red-bull-want-engine-parity-with-ferrari/

I'm starting to think that F1 will be better off without their involvement, *if* the team can be saved.

Demanding engine parity, ffs. If they really wanted that then they should just develop their own engine or, just perhaps, not treat the engine supplier with which they had four years of success so disgracefully.

Who'd want to supply them given the way they've treated Renault?
So, I don't follow it as closely as I used to, but in the lead up to the new rules I definitely got the sense that the rules had been designed by Mercedes. The problem is there is not in season testing or development. You have what you have, which means after the first race we know who's won.

I'm not sure you can say the rules were designed by Mercedes. They just developed an innovative engine according to those rules, seeing an approach that the other engine manufacturers did not see. The engine homogenization rules then made it hard for their rivals to respond.

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