politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » One year on from the Indyref: Why Scottish Independence mig
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Seems to be a familar pattern re-emerging.MarqueeMark said:
Wisemann, if you want to be interviewed for the post of resident pb.com misogynist - you'll have to wear a suit and a tie. And do up your top button.JWisemann said:
Stop virtue signalling you pathetic moron.Plato_Says said:Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.kle4 said:
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.john_zims said:@Jonathan
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.0 -
Indeed I would like to know what exactly it was McDonnell thought was happening that meant that the peace process was likely to fall apart unless an obscure backbencher went out and praised IRA murderers. The claim is risible. He was praising the IRA because he had sympathy with them. It really is – as with Corbyn – as simple as that.Plato_Says said:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/why-are-people-falling-for-john-mcdonnells-question-time-apology/
John McDonnell’s Question Time ‘apology’ was no such thing and I am amazed to see anybody for fall for it. It was obviously insisted upon by Labour party spin-doctors. But as the words themselves show, it was not an apology. Sure, he apologised for causing any offence or upset, but not for the fact that he was wholly and utterly wrong. And wrong not only to have praised people who spent three decades shooting people and planting bombs in public places but wrong on the facts too.
It's a tragedy for the people of the Middle East that Corbyn has been called away from the process before he could secure a lasting peace there.0 -
All apologies should be "I'm sorry I..."Plato_Says said:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/why-are-people-falling-for-john-mcdonnells-question-time-apology/
John McDonnell’s Question Time ‘apology’ was no such thing and I am amazed to see anybody for fall for it. It was obviously insisted upon by Labour party spin-doctors. But as the words themselves show, it was not an apology. Sure, he apologised for causing any offence or upset, but not for the fact that he was wholly and utterly wrong. And wrong not only to have praised people who spent three decades shooting people and planting bombs in public places but wrong on the facts too.
People avoid this 9 times out of 10.
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Be that as it may, he's right on the merits.JWisemann said:Nabavi having a go at anyone for being in Panglossian mode has to rank amongst the most astonishing fits of chutzpah on a site that's riddled with it.
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What pomposity, "Deigned" gives the game away.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
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On USA betting front: Fiorina is now at 4th place on betfair at 10. I do hope some PBers took my tip at 164/1 back in Feb.0
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Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
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I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
Indeed I would like to know what exactly it was McDonnell thought was happening that meant that the peace process was likely to fall apart unless an obscure backbencher went out and praised IRA murderers. The claim is risible. He was praising the IRA because he had sympathy with them. It really is – as with Corbyn – as simple as that.Tissue_Price said:Plato_Says said:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/why-are-people-falling-for-john-mcdonnells-question-time-apology/
John McDonnell’s Question Time ‘apology’ was no such thing and I am amazed to see anybody for fall for it. It was obviously insisted upon by Labour party spin-doctors. But as the words themselves show, it was not an apology. Sure, he apologised for causing any offence or upset, but not for the fact that he was wholly and utterly wrong. And wrong not only to have praised people who spent three decades shooting people and planting bombs in public places but wrong on the facts too.
It's a tragedy for the people of the Middle East that Corbyn has been called away from the process before he could secure a lasting peace there.
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I rather get the impression that Corbyn felt he'd already travelled a long way by trimming his beard and wearing some form of suit and putting on a tie anyway.SouthamObserver said:
The jacket and trousers were not matching, so it was not a suit. There was also a sizeable gap between his neck and the front of the collar on his shirt. That means the shirt was the wrong size. It would have been the easiest thing to pop down to M&S - or to send someone to do it - to get a suit and a decent shirt. Corbyn and none of his team thought it mattered.Jonathan said:
As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.SouthamObserver said:
Not wearing a suit, not wearing the right sized shirt and not doing his tie up properly at a ceremony in which the country is honouring those who kept the Nazis at bay was tremendously disrespectful, not only to those who died, but also to the Labour party itself and the nine million plus people who voted Labour in May. Corbyn holds a position of tremendous responsibility - not only in terms of politics, but also symbolically.Jonathan said:
FWIW I haven't said it doesn't matter politically. Sadly it does. Nevertheless, I do think it's daft and over-egged by Tories who are having jolly good fun and enjoying some faux outrage. I would expect 'sensible' Tories like you to call that out for the fluff it is.Richard_Nabavi said:Things have come to a pretty pass when even sensible Labour supporters such as Jonathan are reduced to trying to convince themselves that Corbyn looking shifty and scruffy at a ceremony honouring those who gave their lives in the Battle of Britain doesn't matter politically. (And that's without even mentioning the national anthem stuff).
The anthem issue is more serious IMO. But it's the policies and track record that actually matter.
I doubt he gave the detail of the sartorials any thought at all.0 -
"I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife."JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Wow. You married a woman, and that means you're not misogynistic!
"I don't even hate Tories."
That's good of you, and a sign of your undoubted saint-like forbearance.
"I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided"
And I think yours are nasty, misogynistic and frankly stupid.0 -
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
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You made more on the mark when before the election you said PB Tories were living in a fantasy world for saying the Tories would get 300 plus MPs at the election.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Please tell us how many MPs the Tories ended up with0 -
Well quite. I detest "I'm sorry if"
You're either apologising or you aren't. *If* implies it's all illegitimate.
All apologies should be "I'm sorry I..."TheWhiteRabbit said:Plato_Says said:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/why-are-people-falling-for-john-mcdonnells-question-time-apology/
John McDonnell’s Question Time ‘apology’ was no such thing and I am amazed to see anybody for fall for it. It was obviously insisted upon by Labour party spin-doctors. But as the words themselves show, it was not an apology. Sure, he apologised for causing any offence or upset, but not for the fact that he was wholly and utterly wrong. And wrong not only to have praised people who spent three decades shooting people and planting bombs in public places but wrong on the facts too.
People avoid this 9 times out of 10.
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Tsk - it's germ-basedMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, are you suggesting that might go viral?
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To be fair the black trousers accompanying the blue jacket were only apparent in the photos of Corbyn with his two goodybags of Costa freebies.john_zims said:@Jonathan
'As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.'
Maybe you should give Specsavers a go ?
Corbyn is as economical with his tailoring as his shadow chancellor is with the truth; the same trousers were worn at PMQs. It would appear that in constantly drawing attention to his trousers, Corbyn is determined to continue the analogy of the Whitehall Farce.0 -
Why doesn't Sadiq Khan just sod off and join the Tories
Sadiq Khan, Labour’s candidate for mayor of London, has criticised the economic policies of John McDonnell, the new shadow chancellor, and has promised to govern the capital on an unashamedly pro-business platform.
Mr Khan, who beat Tessa Jowell, the Blairite former culture secretary, to the candidacy a week ago, said he wanted to be the “the most business-friendly mayor of all time”. He added that he was opposed to a new financial transactions tax and higher corporation tax, policies espoused by Mr McDonnell.
http://on.ft.com/1Yjq6fD
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F1: pushed for time at the minute, so this race (and the next, which is only a week later) may have briefer than usual articles at enormo-haddock.blogspot.com
Still my plan to put them up, though.0 -
ScouseSense™.Slackbladder said:
Seems to be a familar pattern re-emerging.MarqueeMark said:
Wisemann, if you want to be interviewed for the post of resident pb.com misogynist - you'll have to wear a suit and a tie. And do up your top button.JWisemann said:
Stop virtue signalling you pathetic moron.Plato_Says said:Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.kle4 said:
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.john_zims said:@Jonathan
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.0 -
Sounds a bit David Brent to me: "how can I hate women? My mum's one."JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
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The fact that you post this pathos of a response shows your own insecurity based upon your original point. Why defend something that - you consider - right and honest?JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
:other-than-being-a-[MODERATED}:0 -
What made that so fascinating was it was left to Costa's PR team to save Corbyn from *stealing food from veterans* story.
No one from Labour jumped in to save them.flightpath01 said:
To be fair the black trousers accompanying the blue jacket were only apparent in the photos of Corbyn with his two goodybags of Costa freebies.john_zims said:@Jonathan
'As far as I can tell it was a suit and unless you're his tailor I am not sure you can really judge his shirt size. But yes, as endlessly discussed the button was undone.'
Maybe you should give Specsavers a go ?
Corbyn is as economical with his tailoring as his shadow chancellor is with the truth; the same trousers were worn at PMQs. It would appear that in constantly drawing attention to his trousers, Corbyn is determined to continue the analogy of the Whitehall Farce.0 -
Yes, I was using it entirely unironically, obviously.ReggieCide said:
What pomposity, "Deigned" gives the game away.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
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You clearly can't understand irony either.Casino_Royale said:
Sounds a bit David Brent to me: "how can I hate women? My mum's one."JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
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I'm sure Zac would let him be the "most business-friendly deputy mayor of all time”. Big Tent and all that.TheScreamingEagles said:Why doesn't Sadiq Khan just sod off and join the Tories
Sadiq Khan, Labour’s candidate for mayor of London, has criticised the economic policies of John McDonnell, the new shadow chancellor, and has promised to govern the capital on an unashamedly pro-business platform.
Mr Khan, who beat Tessa Jowell, the Blairite former culture secretary, to the candidacy a week ago, said he wanted to be the “the most business-friendly mayor of all time”. He added that he was opposed to a new financial transactions tax and higher corporation tax, policies espoused by Mr McDonnell.
http://on.ft.com/1Yjq6fD0 -
To be fair, even most PB Tories weren't expecting that either, along with 99% of the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
You made more on the mark when before the election you said PB Tories were living in a fantasy world for saying the Tories would get 300 plus MPs at the election.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Please tell us how many MPs the Tories ended up with
But yes, once in a blue moon, when something crops up that almost all commentators get wrong, I get something wrong. Not very often though.0 -
"Things like publically controlled public transport,"JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
That's an interesting point about the current privatised railway network. If anything, it is more under the control of the government than BR ever was, with the ORR and DfT exercising far more micro control over all sorts of matters.0 -
OK, we have another moron. At least Plato appears to be able to read.saddened said:
Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
*Crosses fingers saddened isn't female*0 -
Note how I said 'publically controlled', not 'government controlled'.JosiasJessop said:
"Things like publically controlled public transport,"JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
That's an interesting point about the current privatised railway network. If anything, it is more under the control of the government than BR ever was, with the ORR and DfT exercising far more micro control over all sorts of matters.0 -
Is that what your wife does every morning, along with the hoovering and washing-up?JWisemann said:You clearly can't understand irony either.
Seriously: Change your tone. You have pretty wierd thought-processes but they add value to the site. 0 -
Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.0
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Did JWisemann write it?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
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Alex Wickham @WikiGuido
McDonnell "had no role whatsoever in the peace process" says Nigel Dodds: "These remarks were in 2003, the Belfast Agreement was in 1998"0 -
Do it ZacTissue_Price said:
I'm sure Zac would let him be the "most business-friendly deputy mayor of all time”. Big Tent and all that.TheScreamingEagles said:Why doesn't Sadiq Khan just sod off and join the Tories
Sadiq Khan, Labour’s candidate for mayor of London, has criticised the economic policies of John McDonnell, the new shadow chancellor, and has promised to govern the capital on an unashamedly pro-business platform.
Mr Khan, who beat Tessa Jowell, the Blairite former culture secretary, to the candidacy a week ago, said he wanted to be the “the most business-friendly mayor of all time”. He added that he was opposed to a new financial transactions tax and higher corporation tax, policies espoused by Mr McDonnell.
http://on.ft.com/1Yjq6fD0 -
Labour needs to think about a federal structure for the UK which must include organising and having candidates in NI as UK Labour,part of a federal structure of 10 regions,each with devolved status.In the immediate future never again can there be "Better Together" with the Tories.As far as Labour is concerned in any future indyref the Tories have ebola.0
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So you would nationalise and reduce governmental control?JWisemann said:
Note how I said 'publically controlled', not 'government controlled'.JosiasJessop said:
"Things like publically controlled public transport,"JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
That's an interesting point about the current privatised railway network. If anything, it is more under the control of the government than BR ever was, with the ORR and DfT exercising far more micro control over all sorts of matters.0 -
Can anyone throw informed light on this?
David Blevins
@skydavidblevins
BREAKING: NI Secretary announces assessment of structure, role and purpose of paramilitary organisations, reviewed by independent panel.0 -
I wish.Tissue_Price said:
Did JWisemann write it?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
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Is this a weakness in the spin operation? Can't believe there wasn't a "line" on this. And if this was the line, then it's not going to last long. Surely?Tissue_Price said:
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
Excellent post. Very high "sense to words" ratio. Top job and quite agreed. I'd suggest politicians avoid it 9.99 times out of 10: "I'm sorry if" seems far more common.TheWhiteRabbit said:
All apologies should be "I'm sorry I..."
People avoid this 9 times out of 10.
This is an excellent piece. Why couldn't we have more journalism like this over the migrant crisis? Urban's coverage is clearly not unsympathetic to migrants or refugees, but sticks to the issues and doesn't attempt to generate faux outrage. (One slight bone of contention: early on he correctly identifies that Albanian migrants will be a mix of Muslim and Christian, which makes it hard to identify the truth of the "predominant Muslim migration" claim. Later on he classes Albania - and Kosovo, another major source of migrants, by way of it being in the former Yugoslavia - in his list of "majority Christian or largely secular" countries. Most Kosovars and Albanians are at least nominally Muslim, though with a large Christian minority in Albania and both are indeed largely secular in the sense that few people there are particularly religious or view Islam as a key part of their personal or national identity. The situation is complicated by the fact that many of the migrants are actually Roma rather than ethnic Albanians. But trying to exclude ethnic Albanians from the "Muslim" figures reads a bit like a sleight of hand to kill the "Muslim migration" myth.)Morris_Dancer said:Mentioned earlier but I only read this now. A good piece from Mark Urban, with interesting stats on those from Syria and the Balkans:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-342700770 -
'Women, know your place' would be too controversial a topic.Tissue_Price said:
Did JWisemann write it?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
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Because most Tories don't defend,let alone desire, different treatment for people according to ethnicity?TheScreamingEagles said:Why doesn't Sadiq Khan just sod off and join the Tories
Sadiq Khan, Labour’s candidate for mayor of London, has criticised the economic policies of John McDonnell, the new shadow chancellor, and has promised to govern the capital on an unashamedly pro-business platform.
Mr Khan, who beat Tessa Jowell, the Blairite former culture secretary, to the candidacy a week ago, said he wanted to be the “the most business-friendly mayor of all time”. He added that he was opposed to a new financial transactions tax and higher corporation tax, policies espoused by Mr McDonnell.
http://on.ft.com/1Yjq6fD
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@Plato_Says
'I can't bring myself to endure QT''
You missed McDonnell telling us what a crucial part he played in the Northern Ireland peace agreement.0 -
Fluffy, I think that is the closest thing to a compliment I have ever seen you deliver on this site, particularly to someone who is not a natural political bedfellow. It didn't even require deciphering. You are getting soft with age.FluffyThoughts said:
Is that what your wife does every morning, along with the hoovering and washing-up?JWisemann said:You clearly can't understand irony either.
Seriously: Change your tone. You have pretty wierd thought-processes but they add value to the site.0 -
Is anyone else having trouble with BT Yahoo Emails today?0
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@flightpath01
'Corbyn is as economical with his tailoring'
Maybe just being badly advised by Ruth Kelly ?0 -
It was actually worse than that - JMcD claimed JC had told him that "he normally sings it". Someone offered £50 on Twitter for footage of same; I doubt it will be claimed.MyBurningEars said:
Is this a weakness in the spin operation? Can't believe there wasn't a "line" on this. And if this was the line, then it's not going to last long. Surely?Tissue_Price said:
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
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All apologies should be "I'm sorry I..."TheWhiteRabbit said:Plato_Says said:http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/09/why-are-people-falling-for-john-mcdonnells-question-time-apology/
John McDonnell’s Question Time ‘apology’ was no such thing and I am amazed to see anybody for fall for it. It was obviously insisted upon by Labour party spin-doctors. But as the words themselves show, it was not an apology. Sure, he apologised for causing any offence or upset, but not for the fact that he was wholly and utterly wrong. And wrong not only to have praised people who spent three decades shooting people and planting bombs in public places but wrong on the facts too.
People avoid this 9 times out of 10.
https://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/how-to-apologize.htm
John Scalzi has a good take on apologies; I shall leave the link to your collectively mighty Google-fu.0 -
Mr. Pete, carving England into seven regions is unacceptable.0
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Tissue_Price said:
It was actually worse than that - JMcD claimed JC had told him that "he normally sings it". Someone offered £50 on Twitter for footage of same; I doubt it will be claimed.MyBurningEars said:
Is this a weakness in the spin operation? Can't believe there wasn't a "line" on this. And if this was the line, then it's not going to last long. Surely?Tissue_Price said:
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
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Oh I can. I just enjoy winding up posters that have such sparkling personalities as you do.JWisemann said:
You clearly can't understand irony either.Casino_Royale said:
Sounds a bit David Brent to me: "how can I hate women? My mum's one."JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
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Good grief. I thought JMcD had been doing politics for long enough to realise that would be a foot-in-mouth moment, if someone were to believe him that JC did normally sing the anthem then it makes his behaviour at the service appear even more disrespectful. When in hole and all that.Tissue_Price said:
It was actually worse than that - JMcD claimed JC had told him that "he normally sings it". Someone offered £50 on Twitter for footage of same; I doubt it will be claimed.MyBurningEars said:
Is this a weakness in the spin operation? Can't believe there wasn't a "line" on this. And if this was the line, then it's not going to last long. Surely?Tissue_Price said:
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
Parties like having solid, "trustworthy" folk who can front up in the media for them at different times, ones who will put the spade away. And preferably stick to the lines and divert attention from where it's currently embarrassingly focused. I wonder whether Labour currently have any suitable candidates for the job, at least on the front benches.0 -
'He normally sings it, but simply couldn't be arsed to do so at the memorial service'.Plato_Says said:Tissue_Price said:
It was actually worse than that - JMcD claimed JC had told him that "he normally sings it". Someone offered £50 on Twitter for footage of same; I doubt it will be claimed.MyBurningEars said:
Is this a weakness in the spin operation? Can't believe there wasn't a "line" on this. And if this was the line, then it's not going to last long. Surely?Tissue_Price said:
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
0 -
Lucy Powell
MyBurningEars said:
Good grief. I thought JMcD had been doing politics for long enough to realise that would be a foot-in-mouth moment, if someone were to believe him that JC did normally sing the anthem then it makes his behaviour at the service appear even more disrespectful. When in hole and all that.Tissue_Price said:
It was actually worse than that - JMcD claimed JC had told him that "he normally sings it". Someone offered £50 on Twitter for footage of same; I doubt it will be claimed.MyBurningEars said:
Is this a weakness in the spin operation? Can't believe there wasn't a "line" on this. And if this was the line, then it's not going to last long. Surely?Tissue_Price said:
My jaw dropped at that. Shame no-one properly called him out on it (there was disagreement, but no-one said "do you think we were born yesterday?").Plato_Says said:I can't bring myself to endure QT - did he really claim that Jezzbollah didn't sing GSTQ because he *forgot* ?
Parties like having solid, "trustworthy" folk who can front up in the media for them at different times, ones who will put the spade away. And preferably stick to the lines and divert attention from where it's currently embarrassingly focused. I wonder whether Labour currently have any suitable candidates for the job, at least on the front benches.0 -
Dare we hope for something AV related?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
0 -
You can't do it can you. It should be easy you must have masses of evidence on your side, as there's no way you'd just spout made up bollocks is their?JWisemann said:
OK, we have another moron. At least Plato appears to be able to read.saddened said:
Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
*Crosses fingers saddened isn't female*0 -
Whatever one things of McDonnell personally, he is a good public performer as evidenced by last night's QT.
He has the rare talent of making complete boll8cks seem quite plausible.0 -
The main apologies, not just in public life but particular there, are surely:
'I'm sorry I was caught' - regret not for what you did but that, people knowing about it, has caused you difficulty
'I'm sorry you are reacting this way' - sorry that the person feels offended, not acknowledgement that it was objectively offensive
'I'm sorry the situation is what it is' - apologising for the inconvenience caused by the furore over one's actions, not the action itself
Hear hear. I'm sure some other settlement to our constitutional mess could be figured out. Asymmetrical, fudged solutions are what Britain is all about, but I don't much like that particular one.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pete, carving England into seven regions is unacceptable.
0 -
That is scheduled for the weekend. It really is.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Dare we hope for something AV related?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
Hand the keys back to Mike on Monday, not long left now.0 -
Jessop
"I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife."
Wow. You married a woman, and that means you're not misogynistic!
"I don't even hate Tories."
That's good of you, and a sign of your undoubted saint-like forbearance.
"I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided"
And I think yours are nasty, misogynistic and frankly stupid."
You even manage to diminish a thread like this with your tediousness. Haven't you got any houses to sell?0 -
I'll write you a replacement thread. You should save the AV stuff until we have an election conducted under it. Might not be long.TheScreamingEagles said:
That is scheduled for the weekend. It really is.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Dare we hope for something AV related?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
Hand the keys back to Mike on Monday, not long left now.0 -
McDonnell is actually quite a decent politician (much better than Corbyn) - his C4 interview and even last night's QT were smooth. He just has repellent and impractical views - and happily for us/unfortunately for him they've been committed to film and/or Hansard over many years.taffys said:Whatever one things of McDonnell personally, he is a good public performer as evidenced by last night's QT.
He has the rare talent of making complete boll8cks seem quite plausible.0 -
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.saddened said:
You can't do it can you. It should be easy you must have masses of evidence on your side, as there's no way you'd just spout made up bollocks is their?JWisemann said:
OK, we have another moron. At least Plato appears to be able to read.saddened said:
Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
*Crosses fingers saddened isn't female*0 -
Be still my beating heart.TheScreamingEagles said:
That is scheduled for the weekend. It really is.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Dare we hope for something AV related?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
Hand the keys back to Mike on Monday, not long left now.0 -
Wow. I thought you'd dropped this Jessop-is-an-estate-agent meme years ago.Roger said:Jessop
"I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife."
Wow. You married a woman, and that means you're not misogynistic!
"I don't even hate Tories."
That's good of you, and a sign of your undoubted saint-like forbearance.
"I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided"
And I think yours are nasty, misogynistic and frankly stupid."
You even manage to diminish a thread like this with your tediousness. Haven't you got any houses to sell?
I've always wondered which part of the deep and feeble recesses of your mind you dug that up from ...0 -
Yes it was quite disarming, I must admit. Its actually made me slightly reconsider my behaviour. Maybe talking to your 'enemies' does work. Fluffy Thoughts as PB Tory's McDonnell?MyBurningEars said:
Fluffy, I think that is the closest thing to a compliment I have ever seen you deliver on this site, particularly to someone who is not a natural political bedfellow. It didn't even require deciphering. You are getting soft with age.FluffyThoughts said:
Is that what your wife does every morning, along with the hoovering and washing-up?JWisemann said:You clearly can't understand irony either.
Seriously: Change your tone. You have pretty wierd thought-processes but they add value to the site. Disclaimer - I have not to my knowledge ever been a member of the IRA. 0 -
Well you know I love your pieces and will dump my pieces for your works.Tissue_Price said:
I'll write you a replacement thread. You should save the AV stuff until we have an election conducted under it. Might not be long.TheScreamingEagles said:
That is scheduled for the weekend. It really is.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Dare we hope for something AV related?TheScreamingEagles said:Sadly I'm busy this afternoon so won't be able to contribute but this afternoon's thread is an absolute humdinger.
Hand the keys back to Mike on Monday, not long left now.0 -
Mr Wiseman. I have only just read this in my lunch break and your insult to the lady is in response to a well set out list of points as to why dress style matters for front line politicians. Personally I am not upset by the scruff bag, I would not vote for him because I know what his past policies are. But a very large % of voters judge competence as important and how a person dresses as a key indicator. For your information, there are more people voting over 50 than under 50 and dress style matters to them. You think that argument wrong, fine that is your legitimate right to ignore the evidence. It does not "make you a moron"*, but neither does the opposite make them a "pathetic moron".JWisemann said:
Stop virtue signalling you pathetic moron.Plato_Says said:Surely the point here is that to make a decision to *not-conform* to the accepted public standard at a remembrance service is a stupid bit of self-indulgence.
Whether we personally agree with dressing in a relaxed manner is irrelevant. If you don't want to unnecessarily alienate your own base - don't do it.
The scruffians who voted for him wouldn't care that he wore matching jacket and trousers, did up his top button et al - but those for whom it does matter, it's disrespectful.
All politicians have a well of goodwill/honeymoon/give them a go during their first few weeks - Jezza is burning through his totally unnecessarily on stupidity.kle4 said:
Im sure they wouldn't, but Ihave to agree the attacks on Corbyn's style are a little overblown, as he doesn't look that bad, in fact he usually looks fine if a little informal at times for my own tastes.john_zims said:@Jonathan
'Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.'
Don't think your average voter let alone Worcester woman finds a leader that resembles a Tramp very inspiring.
*aka God Save The Queen by S Ps for TSE0 -
The *months ahead*... I do hope so http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2015/09/18/jeremy-corbyn-leadership-taken-over-by-former-ken-livingston
In the coming days Corbyn is set to announce a new head of media. This will be a key appointment, given the widespread hostility to the new Labour leader among almost all major newspapers, not to mention the widespread hostility to the media among both Corbyn and his supporters.
Whatever happens, the next few months are unlikely to be plain-sailing for Corbyn. But after a rocky start there are signs that the ship may at least start to settle.0 -
Correlation =/= causation but I had to cleanse myself by visiting this site.MyBurningEars said:Fluffy, I think that is the closest thing to a compliment I have ever seen you deliver on this site, particularly to someone who is not a natural political bedfellow. It didn't even require deciphering. You are getting soft with age.
0 -
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.0 -
...on the seabed.Plato_Says said:
Whatever happens, the next few months are unlikely to be plain-sailing for Corbyn. But after a rocky start there are signs that the ship may at least start to settle.
0 -
Migrant update....
Co-worker coming in from Hong Kong reports ugly scenes at HK airport in form of massive Anzac P8ss up ahead of RWC.0 -
The public are right of Corbyn on welfare and immigration and inheritance tax and airstrikes on ISIS but they agree with him on rail and utility nationalisation and higher taxes on the richedmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.0 -
I think a 'UK' day is not a bad idea (as public holidays go) - it could be a day to be spent exploring the UK, whether our own patch or visiting one of the other home nations.kle4 said:
When did they make that suggestion? I recall I, and no doubt many others,msuggesting itbwith varying levels of seriousness a year ago. It was funnier when I allowed my surprise at a No win to consider if the issue might be settled for a little while at least. Really it's something we should have had a long time ago, but it's probably way too late now.ThreeQuidder said:I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest0 -
Some very funny ''McDonnell facts'' now on twitter....0
-
Who's in charge? http://order-order.com/2015/09/18/shock-labour-back-cut-in-corporation-tax/
David Gauke
Pleased that Labour supported the cut in corporation tax to 18% in today's Finance Bill debate. Anyone told the Shadow Chancellor?
7:00 PM - 17 Sep 20150 -
We'll have to wait and see what happens. First priority was rebooting the labour party, it was destined for a drawn out death under the zombie hordes that were running it. Better to apply the electroshock treatment. I just want to make sure a genuinely social democratic labour party are waiting in the wings when the Tories inevitably f*ck up, which is going to happen at some point. Corbyn will probably be long gone by that point, but hopefully having left room for labour to decide it has a heart and purpose again, and hopefully policies can get the focus rather than media gossip.edmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.0 -
Are they crying 'God is great', whilst throwing stones and threatening to burn down the airport if they're not fed more culturally diverse food such as Pie Floaters and 'fush and chups'?taffys said:Migrant update....
Co-worker coming in from Hong Kong reports ugly scenes at HK airport in form of massive Anzac P8ss up ahead of RWC.0 -
...on the seabed.MarqueeMark said:
Whatever happens, the next few months are unlikely to be plain-sailing for Corbyn. But after a rocky start there are signs that the ship may at least start to settle.
... and then start dredging.
0 -
TSE - If you're looking for a piece on AV I can go one better and give you one on a real-life STV election - the Irish election is coming up in the next few months and, if it's like last time, will provide some great betting opportunities.0
-
Ooh, would love that.Richard_Nabavi said:TSE - If you're looking for a piece on AV I can go one better and give you one on a real-life STV election - the Irish election is coming up in the next few months and, if it's like last time, will provide some great betting opportunities.
0 -
sounds like a mcdonnell acceptanceJWisemann said:
To be fair, even most PB Tories weren't expecting that either, along with 99% of the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
You made more on the mark when before the election you said PB Tories were living in a fantasy world for saying the Tories would get 300 plus MPs at the election.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Please tell us how many MPs the Tories ended up with
But yes, once in a blue moon, when something crops up that almost all commentators get wrong, I get something wrong. Not very often though.0 -
Most voters do not want socialism recognise the books need to be balanced and may vote for higher taxes on the rich but want tax cuts for themselvesJWisemann said:
We'll have to wait and see what happens. First priority was rebooting the labour party, it was destined for a drawn out death under the zombie hordes that were running it. Better to apply the electroshock treatment. I just want to make sure a genuinely social democratic labour party are waiting in the wings when the Tories inevitably f*ck up, which is going to happen at some point. Corbyn will probably be long gone by that point, but hopefully having left room for labour to decide it has a heart and purpose again, and hopefully policies can get the focus rather than media gossip.edmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.0 -
I'll see what I can do. Maybe a general introduction first and then later something more specific on the betting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ooh, would love that.Richard_Nabavi said:TSE - If you're looking for a piece on AV I can go one better and give you one on a real-life STV election - the Irish election is coming up in the next few months and, if it's like last time, will provide some great betting opportunities.
0 -
@DavidRoe92: Surprised no Labour MP has defected to Lib Dems yet. Could be leader in 18 months0
-
There is something I need to address. I often give tips on this site, always with the best of intentions. But if anyone has lost money as a result - and clearly some have - then that is of course a cause for huge regret. I'm truly saddened by it. But if I hadn't given the tips, then perhaps the bookmakers would not have offered such markets in future. If just one more market were offered, then maybe my losing tips were worth it. But I will take your criticism on board and only tip winners in the future. Thank you.Scrapheap_as_was said:
sounds like a mcdonnell acceptanceJWisemann said:
To be fair, even most PB Tories weren't expecting that either, along with 99% of the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
You made more on the mark when before the election you said PB Tories were living in a fantasy world for saying the Tories would get 300 plus MPs at the election.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Please tell us how many MPs the Tories ended up with
But yes, once in a blue moon, when something crops up that almost all commentators get wrong, I get something wrong. Not very often though.0 -
Sturgeon
chortle.0 -
CLAPS Tissue_Price said:
There is something I need to address. I often give tips on this site, always with the best of intentions. But if anyone has lost money as a result - and clearly some have - then that is of course a cause for huge regret. I'm truly saddened by it. But if I hadn't given the tips, then perhaps the bookmakers would not have offered such markets in future. If just one more market were offered, then maybe my losing tips were worth it. But I will take your criticism on board and only tip winners in the future. Thank you.Scrapheap_as_was said:
sounds like a mcdonnell acceptanceJWisemann said:
To be fair, even most PB Tories weren't expecting that either, along with 99% of the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
You made more on the mark when before the election you said PB Tories were living in a fantasy world for saying the Tories would get 300 plus MPs at the election.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Please tell us how many MPs the Tories ended up with
But yes, once in a blue moon, when something crops up that almost all commentators get wrong, I get something wrong. Not very often though.0 -
That's splendidRichard_Nabavi said:
I'll see what I can do. Maybe a general introduction first and then later something more specific on the betting.TheScreamingEagles said:
Ooh, would love that.Richard_Nabavi said:TSE - If you're looking for a piece on AV I can go one better and give you one on a real-life STV election - the Irish election is coming up in the next few months and, if it's like last time, will provide some great betting opportunities.
0 -
But when you're off on two thirds of policies, you don't get elected and don't get to implement the third of popular policies you do like.HYUFD said:
The public are right of Corbyn on welfare and immigration and inheritance tax and airstrikes on ISIS but they agree with him on rail and utility nationalisation and higher taxes on the richedmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.0 -
I don't want socialism either - I want an effective, modern, civilised country where private entrepreneurship does what it does best, but devolved and responsive democratic bodies rather than the transnational super-wealthy control essential public services, and the ability of money to buy power is strictly limited to avoid a descent into despotism.HYUFD said:
Most voters do not want socialism recognise the books need to be balanced and may vote for higher taxes on the rich but want tax cuts for themselvesJWisemann said:
We'll have to wait and see what happens. First priority was rebooting the labour party, it was destined for a drawn out death under the zombie hordes that were running it. Better to apply the electroshock treatment. I just want to make sure a genuinely social democratic labour party are waiting in the wings when the Tories inevitably f*ck up, which is going to happen at some point. Corbyn will probably be long gone by that point, but hopefully having left room for labour to decide it has a heart and purpose again, and hopefully policies can get the focus rather than media gossip.edmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.
Also wealth taxes to avoid accumulation of assets and soften the rentier economy.
0 -
Rail nationalisation may possibly be popular but it has no saliance. How many times was transport discussed at the election? None as I recall.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.saddened said:
You can't do it can you. It should be easy you must have masses of evidence on your side, as there's no way you'd just spout made up bollocks is their?JWisemann said:
OK, we have another moron. At least Plato appears to be able to read.saddened said:
Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
*Crosses fingers saddened isn't female*
I would suggest drawing a grid with 2 axes "popular/unpopular and "important/unimportant"
The problem Lab had at the last election is that the economy and immigration were both in the important and unpopular quadrant. On other issues like health and education, Lab was popular but these were relatively less important.
If Lab is to do well next time then it needs to tackle the important/unpopular quadrant either by coming up with more popular policies or making this area less salient. It also needs to try and make policies in the popular/unimportant quadrant more salient0 -
Printing money to pay for infrastructure, wealth taxes and financial transaction taxes are not social democrat. Social democrats typically have workable (albeit not optimal) economic plans.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.saddened said:
You can't do it can you. It should be easy you must have masses of evidence on your side, as there's no way you'd just spout made up bollocks is their?JWisemann said:
OK, we have another moron. At least Plato appears to be able to read.saddened said:
Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
*Crosses fingers saddened isn't female*0 -
Not a bad idea. I am 56 and I've never been to Northern Ireland.Luckyguy1983 said:
I think a 'UK' day is not a bad idea (as public holidays go) - it could be a day to be spent exploring the UK, whether our own patch or visiting one of the other home nations.kle4 said:
When did they make that suggestion? I recall I, and no doubt many others,msuggesting itbwith varying levels of seriousness a year ago. It was funnier when I allowed my surprise at a No win to consider if the issue might be settled for a little while at least. Really it's something we should have had a long time ago, but it's probably way too late now.ThreeQuidder said:I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest
Perhaps UK schools should as part of the curriculum for all students, be required to arrange school trips to each of the other 3 Home Countries at some point in years 10-13 of their schooling. That would amount to about one school trip per year, but at least would guarantee that all schoolchildren in the UK had visited all the Home Countries at least once before becoming adults.0 -
What a good/sensible idea. Never been to NI either.MTimT said:
Not a bad idea. I am 56 and I've never been to Northern Ireland.Luckyguy1983 said:
I think a 'UK' day is not a bad idea (as public holidays go) - it could be a day to be spent exploring the UK, whether our own patch or visiting one of the other home nations.kle4 said:
When did they make that suggestion? I recall I, and no doubt many others,msuggesting itbwith varying levels of seriousness a year ago. It was funnier when I allowed my surprise at a No win to consider if the issue might be settled for a little while at least. Really it's something we should have had a long time ago, but it's probably way too late now.ThreeQuidder said:I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest
Perhaps UK schools should as part of the curriculum for all students, be required to arrange school trips to each of the other 3 Home Countries at some point in years 10-13 of their schooling. That would amount to about one school trip per year, but at least would guarantee that all schoolchildren in the UK had visited all the Home Countries at least once before becoming adults.0 -
I think Roger understands the French as little as he does the English.Alanbrooke said:
Have you ever been to France ?Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic0 -
AgreedJEO said:
But when you're off on two thirds of policies, you don't get elected and don't get to implement the third of popular policies you do like.HYUFD said:
The public are right of Corbyn on welfare and immigration and inheritance tax and airstrikes on ISIS but they agree with him on rail and utility nationalisation and higher taxes on the richedmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.0 -
Post of the day!Tissue_Price said:
There is something I need to address. I often give tips on this site, always with the best of intentions. But if anyone has lost money as a result - and clearly some have - then that is of course a cause for huge regret. I'm truly saddened by it. But if I hadn't given the tips, then perhaps the bookmakers would not have offered such markets in future. If just one more market were offered, then maybe my losing tips were worth it. But I will take your criticism on board and only tip winners in the future. Thank you.Scrapheap_as_was said:
sounds like a mcdonnell acceptanceJWisemann said:
To be fair, even most PB Tories weren't expecting that either, along with 99% of the country.TheScreamingEagles said:
You made more on the mark when before the election you said PB Tories were living in a fantasy world for saying the Tories would get 300 plus MPs at the election.JWisemann said:Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
Please tell us how many MPs the Tories ended up with
But yes, once in a blue moon, when something crops up that almost all commentators get wrong, I get something wrong. Not very often though.0 -
FTTs have been proposed by the centre-right dominated European Commission.JEO said:
Printing money to pay for infrastructure, wealth taxes and financial transaction taxes are not social democrat. Social democrats typically have workable (albeit not optimal) economic plans.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.saddened said:
You can't do it can you. It should be easy you must have masses of evidence on your side, as there's no way you'd just spout made up bollocks is their?JWisemann said:
OK, we have another moron. At least Plato appears to be able to read.saddened said:
Why has no far left party gained power in Britain, if as you assert, they have overwhelmingly popular policies?JWisemann said:
Things like publically controlled public transport, as found under the far left administrations of Merkel and Thatcher, you mean? Corbyn's demeanour may be far out of the mainstream but his policies are moderate social democrat, unless you can point out anything that shows otherwise?saddened said:
It's odd that no far left party has cruised to power in that case. Can you explain why?JWisemann said:Policies that in the main the public agree with, hence the focus on whether the bad man didn't sing a song.
*Crosses fingers saddened isn't female*
Pumping money into the economy at a time where there is a serious threat of deflation is not really a hard left position either.
It's arguable as to whether Land Value Tax is a wealth tax but it is certainly in the same ballpark, and an idea with supporters across the political spectrum.0 -
Spending money has nothing to do with winning elections otherwise Romney would have won and unions spend a lot too. Voters will not vote to raise their own taxes and spend too much whatever funding limits imposedJWisemann said:
I don't want socialism either - I want an effective, modern, civilised country where private entrepreneurship does what it does best, but devolved and responsive democratic bodies rather than the transnational super-wealthy control essential public services, and the ability of money to buy power is strictly limited to avoid a descent into despotism.HYUFD said:
Most voters do not want socialism recognise the books need to be balanced and may vote for higher taxes on the rich but want tax cuts for themselvesJWisemann said:
We'll have to wait and see what happens. First priority was rebooting the labour party, it was destined for a drawn out death under the zombie hordes that were running it. Better to apply the electroshock treatment. I just want to make sure a genuinely social democratic labour party are waiting in the wings when the Tories inevitably f*ck up, which is going to happen at some point. Corbyn will probably be long gone by that point, but hopefully having left room for labour to decide it has a heart and purpose again, and hopefully policies can get the focus rather than media gossip.edmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.
Also wealth taxes to avoid accumulation of assets and soften the rentier economy.0 -
Is a pension "an accumulation of assets"? Some of us might want to accumulate various assets for reasons of personal long term security precisely because it might give us a degree of wiggle room from loons taking over the Govt. Should Jezza, for instance, get anywhere near the reins of power, I shall be taking active steps to convert what the hell I can into foreign assets precisely because I do not trust the sods.JWisemann said:
I don't want socialism either - I want an effective, modern, civilised country where private entrepreneurship does what it does best, but devolved and responsive democratic bodies rather than the transnational super-wealthy control essential public services, and the ability of money to buy power is strictly limited to avoid a descent into despotism.HYUFD said:
Most voters do not want socialism recognise the books need to be balanced and may vote for higher taxes on the rich but want tax cuts for themselvesJWisemann said:
We'll have to wait and see what happens. First priority was rebooting the labour party, it was destined for a drawn out death under the zombie hordes that were running it. Better to apply the electroshock treatment. I just want to make sure a genuinely social democratic labour party are waiting in the wings when the Tories inevitably f*ck up, which is going to happen at some point. Corbyn will probably be long gone by that point, but hopefully having left room for labour to decide it has a heart and purpose again, and hopefully policies can get the focus rather than media gossip.edmundintokyo said:
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.JWisemann said:
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.
Also wealth taxes to avoid accumulation of assets and soften the rentier economy.0
