Whatever happens, the next few months are unlikely to be plain-sailing for Corbyn. But after a rocky start there are signs that the ship may at least start to settle.
A question for the politicos on here re an earlier post: has an MP ever defected from labour to conservative?
Most recently, Reg Prentice:
"In 1977, Prentice left the Labour Party after a series of battles with left-wing constituency activists such as Owen Ashworth and joined the Conservative Party.
He was elected as a Conservative Member of Parliament for Daventry in the 1979 general election."
Thinking of going to Manchester this year. Pass is £320 though, for two people, hotels and train fare it's going to be about £1200. The same cost as a week in Thailand on the beach for two people and then I think it isn't worth it. Thailand or Manchester?
Spending money has nothing to do with winning elections otherwise Romney would have won and unions spend a lot too. Voters will not vote to raise their own taxes and spend too much whatever funding limits imposed
If spending money had nothing to do with winning elections, why do parties ask for donations at all? What a silly thing to say.
Basically, I have no problem with people making money, provided we try and shape a society where money doesn't correlate practically one-to-one with political influence. How to achieve this is another matter - a massive shakeup of media ownership rules would be one possibility, and very strict reductions in party donations would be another. But we must try and find these answers, or else we are on a journey to despotism.
Have to say I think the possibility of defections will only come into play once (and if) it's clear that Corbyn is entrenched as leader.
Deselections are the key I think. Once that trains rolls into the station a few might jump ship to new homes. Till then I'd expect a wait and see (that said it's hard to know what to expect right now!)
Thinking of going to Manchester this year. Pass is £320 though, for two people, hotels and train fare it's going to be about £1200. The same cost as a week in Thailand on the beach for two people and then I think it isn't worth it. Thailand or Manchester?
I can guarantee so long as you don't go to The Village there's no chance of shagging a woman that turns out to be a man in Manchester. I can't make the same guarantee about Thailand.
I clearly made the point that Corbyn's popular policies arent hard left, they are moderate social democrat. Moderate social democrats have often been elected, there just arent many about and we could do with more of them. Many of their policies are very popular. I'm not looking for hard left, I'd be more than happy with something like Blair's first term plus rail renationalisation and some sort of wealth tax. The current crop of so-called Blairites have been disowning practically everything his government originally stood on, hence why they are about as popular as rabies.
Unfortunately the mood music is hard-left, and British voters, who are generally small-c-conservative and deferential to authority, aren't going to vote for it, so you're not going to get rail renationalisation or some sort of wealth tax. You're going to get whatever George Osborne wants you to get, because he doesn't need to worry about losing the election.
We'll have to wait and see what happens. First priority was rebooting the labour party, it was destined for a drawn out death under the zombie hordes that were running it. Better to apply the electroshock treatment. I just want to make sure a genuinely social democratic labour party are waiting in the wings when the Tories inevitably f*ck up, which is going to happen at some point. Corbyn will probably be long gone by that point, but hopefully having left room for labour to decide it has a heart and purpose again, and hopefully policies can get the focus rather than media gossip.
Most voters do not want socialism recognise the books need to be balanced and may vote for higher taxes on the rich but want tax cuts for themselves
I don't want socialism either - I want an effective, modern, civilised country where private entrepreneurship does what it does best, but devolved and responsive democratic bodies rather than the transnational super-wealthy control essential public services, and the ability of money to buy power is strictly limited to avoid a descent into despotism.
Also wealth taxes to avoid accumulation of assets and soften the rentier economy.
Is a pension "an accumulation of assets"? Some of us might want to accumulate various assets for reasons of personal long term security precisely because it might give us a degree of wiggle room from loons taking over the Govt. Should Jezza, for instance, get anywhere near the reins of power, I shall be taking active steps to convert what the hell I can into foreign assets precisely because I do not trust the sods.
No, I'm talking about people who own large amounts of property and live off it.
... I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. ...
This made me splutter into my coffee. Physician, heal thyself.
... I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. ...
This made me splutter into my coffee. Physician, heal thyself.
Haughty and arrogant I can concede at a push, but you won't catch me posting daily mail clickbait and pictures of cats.
Spending money has nothing to do with winning elections otherwise Romney would have won and unions spend a lot too. Voters will not vote to raise their own taxes and spend too much whatever funding limits imposed
If spending money had nothing to do with winning elections, why do parties ask for donations at all? What a silly thing to say.
Basically, I have no problem with people making money, provided we try and shape a society where money doesn't correlate practically one-to-one with political influence. How to achieve this is another matter - a massive shakeup of media ownership rules would be one possibility, and very strict reductions in party donations would be another. But we must try and find these answers, or else we are on a journey to despotism.
Well they all need to fund campaigns but it is policies not ads and literature which win elections you cannot sell a crap product regardless of marketing funds. Despotism would be one party state no choice and no donations to any but the governing party
... I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. ...
You saw the Corbyn interview with Laura Kuenssberg too.
So if you chose to do BTL instead of a pension (I, nor anyone close to me do not own a BTL - just for clarity) does that count?
I left Uni with an (small) overdraft, a black and white TV and the clothes on my back. I am not a banker (etc) and have done socially uncontroversial manufacturing things for my working life. I have accumulated assets by saving. I have inherited nothing. Am I to be wealth taxed?
'you cannot sell a carp product regardless of marketing funds.' You can sell a misleading product, and ensure that the arguments of those with less marketing funds to sell their products are drowned out. If people weren't affected by advertising the advertising industry wouldn't be a monstrous behemoth (which I do some work for, for my sins).
I can guarantee so long as you don't go to The Village there's no chance of shagging a woman that turns out to be a man in Manchester. I can't make the same guarantee about Thailand.
The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.
What I find interesting is how suloor the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.
I think you are probably right, and if so the Conservatives will win for decades to come. The only way Cornyn can win is by energizing large numbers of supporters out to get a bigger chunk of the vote out than the professionals can. My head says it won't work. My heart is rooting for him.
... I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. ...
This made me splutter into my coffee. Physician, heal thyself.
I do find those with the most firm and inflexible opinions are sometimes the least forgiving of others being overly confidenty and inflexible. How odd.
First time in NI via a southern Irish car in 1980s. UK soldiers stopped us on one of the rural roads that crossed the border. None of us said a word and the soldier went straight to me in the back and asked what an english man was doing with 3 young irish ladies.... and I thought I looked german at that time.
Misogyny is hatred of females. I love females - I'm even related to a few, and have deigned to take one as my wife. I don't even hate Tories. I do find people who combine extremely glib and superficial opinions and haughty arrogance deeply irritating though, and I make no apologies for that. If you want I'll sit here and flag up a few male morons too. It shouldn't take long. I think your opinions (Jessop) are very misguided, but I wouldn't call you a moron because you don't sit here pasting up daily mail articles and calling people scruffians.
What pomposity, "Deigned" gives the game away.
Yes, I was using it entirely unironically, obviously.
It is the difference between "even" and "deigned" that is the give away and I took to be tribute to your misogyny. It may also have indicated that although you had no choice in the matter of your blood relatives, you might have made a different choice where choice is available. The pomposity of your moralising is counter productive if clarity is part of your objective. You still look misogynistic to me and, it seems, many others but then I suppose that's because we're all Tories.
Whatever one things of McDonnell personally, he is a good public performer as evidenced by last night's QT.
He has the rare talent of making complete boll8cks seem quite plausible.
But what hit me instantly, and others on here made similar points after the show, was he did a good job of explaining away what he said about the IRA (subsequently shown to be a tissue of lies, but it doesnt matter much, it got him through the show better than you would expect), his explanation of Corbyn not singing the national anthem was so utterly implausible that you immediately got the little warning bells that he was no telling the truth.
But as SeanT eloquently put it last night, he used exactly the same technique for explaining away his IRA comments and his desire to kill Margaret Thatcher, as he did to explain why Corbyn didnt sing the anthem.
It's precisely like watching a magician do a great trick when he makes the third ball disappear . Thinking Wow, thats pretty good. He does it again, and again you are impressed. Then a third time he does the same thing, but this time his sleight of hand isnt as good and you see how the trick is performed. You realise that there was no third ball all along and that in hindsight it wasnt a particularly good trick to begin with.
Comments
That was worthy of a like!
"In 1977, Prentice left the Labour Party after a series of battles with left-wing constituency activists such as Owen Ashworth and joined the Conservative Party.
He was elected as a Conservative Member of Parliament for Daventry in the 1979 general election."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reg_Prentice
Basically, I have no problem with people making money, provided we try and shape a society where money doesn't correlate practically one-to-one with political influence. How to achieve this is another matter - a massive shakeup of media ownership rules would be one possibility, and very strict reductions in party donations would be another. But we must try and find these answers, or else we are on a journey to despotism.
Don't think Jezza is going anywhere in the short term.
So if you chose to do BTL instead of a pension (I, nor anyone close to me do not own a BTL - just for clarity) does that count?
I left Uni with an (small) overdraft, a black and white TV and the clothes on my back. I am not a banker (etc) and have done socially uncontroversial manufacturing things for my working life. I have accumulated assets by saving. I have inherited nothing. Am I to be wealth taxed?
I'd love to see some defections to liven up the scene with the proviso they do as Carswell and Reckless.
You can sell a misleading product, and ensure that the arguments of those with less marketing funds to sell their products are drowned out.
If people weren't affected by advertising the advertising industry wouldn't be a monstrous behemoth (which I do some work for, for my sins).
Germany beginning to flex its muscles :-(
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11873936/Eastern-European-countries-may-be-forced-accept-quotas-for-migrants.html
But as SeanT eloquently put it last night, he used exactly the same technique for explaining away his IRA comments and his desire to kill Margaret Thatcher, as he did to explain why Corbyn didnt sing the anthem.
It's precisely like watching a magician do a great trick when he makes the third ball disappear . Thinking Wow, thats pretty good. He does it again, and again you are impressed. Then a third time he does the same thing, but this time his sleight of hand isnt as good and you see how the trick is performed. You realise that there was no third ball all along and that in hindsight it wasnt a particularly good trick to begin with.