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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » One year on from the Indyref: Why Scottish Independence might be in Labour’s best interests
One of the key elements in my opinion that helped the Tories win a majority in May rather than just being the largest party in a hung parliament was their ruthless approach when it came to Ed Miliband and the likelihood of the SNP propping up a Labour led coalition.
Comments
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Good Morning PB Comrades Worldwide.0
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Bourn election result:
Simon Crocker CON(579)
Jeni Sawford LD(247)
Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
Helene Green UKIP(121)
Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)
Turnout a miserly 15.27%.
Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.
https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author0 -
OT - Not sure the premise is right. Labour lost in May primarily because of their economic policies and crap leader. Plus ca change......0
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Daft thread, maybe you should make the next one "Why ditching London may be in the Conservatives best interest"
If our politicos solution to not getting elected is gerrymandering then we should sack the lot and get new ones.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/11871182/Lidl-to-become-first-British-supermarket-to-pay-Living-Wage.html
In fact I thought Sainsbury's and others have also increased pay in line with the budget recommendations. All very good news for the low paid - as well as getting taxpayers off the hook with tax credit/wage subsidies. Ozzy rocks!
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Morning all.
Not sure I’m in favour of lopping off bits of the UK, just to assist any party, quite frankly.
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More in favour of adding bits to the UK though. Now, how Tory is Crécy?SimonStClare said:Morning all.
Not sure I’m in favour of lopping off bits of the UK, just to assist any party, quite frankly.
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I liked this line.felix said:
The review will not be completed until later this year. It is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, who ran the election campaign, or to argue that the Lib Dems lacked money.
Ok, so it wasn't the leadership, and it wasn't the campaign team, and it wasn't resourcing.
So who's left to blame... Fatcha?0 -
Very much doubt it's a record for locals when the are split from other elections. There was very little publicity locally.Dair said:
Wasn't there a parliamentary by-election in the last parliament where someone got elected with 18-19% of the vote?
Edit: it was Lucy Powell:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Powell
How different GE2015 might have been if she had never been elected to parliament ...0 -
The front page of the Independent looks a little disconcerting today. – “Britain to genetically modify human embryos” immediately below a large picture of Alex Salmond.
Cloned Nats anyone?0 -
But it's ok, Labour are making amends now.
I mean, it's not as if they now have some of their most senior MPs calling EVEL "racist" or anything ludicrous like that anymore.0 -
@ScottyNational: Happy #onescotlandday :Scottish holiday when people show how the ref united Scotland by sending abuse to people of different political views0
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Scotland is a huge distraction for Labour. And it seems that Corbyn wants to make winning back Scotland and shoring up the Labour position in Wales a priority.
Eh?
Both are huge distractions. Even if successful, exchanging one SNP MP for one Labour MP won't make an iota of difference to the power balance in the Commons. If Labour aren't smart enough to work that out, the main advantage of Scottish independence is that it'd *force* them to focus on England, and probably move to the Right too.
Meanwhile, the Tories - although still earnestly unionist - will continue to be the de-facto English party.0 -
If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!JosiasJessop said:Bourn election result:
Simon Crocker CON(579)
Jeni Sawford LD(247)
Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
Helene Green UKIP(121)
Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)
Turnout a miserly 15.27%.
Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.
https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author0 -
I hear Marquee Mark is in line for a lot of criticism.Charles said:
I liked this line.felix said:
The review will not be completed until later this year. It is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, who ran the election campaign, or to argue that the Lib Dems lacked money.
Ok, so it wasn't the leadership, and it wasn't the campaign team, and it wasn't resourcing.
So who's left to blame... Fatcha?0 -
Does Eck have plans for a clone army? I forsee problems...SimonStClare said:The front page of the Independent looks a little disconcerting today. – “Britain to genetically modify human embryos” immediately below a large picture of Alex Salmond.
Cloned Nats anyone?0 -
No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.OldKingCole said:
If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!JosiasJessop said:Bourn election result:
Simon Crocker CON(579)
Jeni Sawford LD(247)
Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
Helene Green UKIP(121)
Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)
Turnout a miserly 15.27%.
Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.
https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author0 -
The steady exam improvement in England has seen no equivalent in Scotland, which is now the worst place in Britain to be poor and bright. Next month, almost one in five English students from poor backgrounds will go to university – twice the level of poor Scots. Lucy Hunter Blackburn, a former civil servant who crunched the numbers in an Edinburgh University study, puts it starkly. The SNP’s abolition of tuition fees helps rich families, she says, she says, and grants for poor students are lower. So the SNP “is actively reinforcing inherited inequalities in wealth. It’s that simple.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11873099/Cameron-must-wake-up-the-battle-for-Scotland-and-the-Union-is-still-being-fought.html
The SNP’s great policing experiment – merging eight constabularies into one nationwide force – has also become a case study in what not to do.
If Theresa May’s flagship police reform had gone so badly, she would be an ex-Home Secretary. But things are different in Scotland. The SNP is adept at changing the topic of conversation to one it prefers and dodging the scrutiny it deserves.0 -
Hmm...maybe its because I'm a Unionist but I don't agree. What Scotland does, and has done for the last 40 years, is make it more difficult for the Conservatives to get a majority in the Commons. SNP seats are not Labour seats but they certainly are not Conservative supporting seats.
There is a sharp contrast with that former party, the Lib Dems. Their position was that whoever won the most seats had earned the right to rule. The SNP do not think that way and would have no problem propping up a smaller Labour party to keep the Tories out.
What Labour need to do is address the underlying problem shown by those posters. The underlying problem was that Ed was pathetic and could easily be pushed around in favour of a sectional interest who many in England thought were already getting more than a fair crack of the whip.
I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.0 -
LDs were also up in Haringey, and baby eaters too.SquareRoot said:
No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.OldKingCole said:
If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!JosiasJessop said:Bourn election result:
Simon Crocker CON(579)
Jeni Sawford LD(247)
Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
Helene Green UKIP(121)
Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)
Turnout a miserly 15.27%.
Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.
https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
In Bourn it doesn't look as if LD or UKIP stood last time.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/6446375698425528320 -
But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the ToriesDavidL said:I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
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What a bizarre article!
Labour is a British party.
The best thing for its prospects is not to break-up the country but to have a credible, non-toxic leadership and a set of coherent policies.0 -
The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.
Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.0 -
@LleuW: Anyone pouring over #indyref one year onwards should read this great piece by @JamieRoss7 http://t.co/tIaNZbVxts0
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11873099/Cameron-must-wake-up-the-battle-for-Scotland-and-the-Union-is-still-being-fought.htmlScott_P said:The steady exam improvement in England has seen no equivalent in Scotland, which is now the worst place in Britain to be poor and bright. Next month, almost one in five English students from poor backgrounds will go to university – twice the level of poor Scots. Lucy Hunter Blackburn, a former civil servant who crunched the numbers in an Edinburgh University study, puts it starkly. The SNP’s abolition of tuition fees helps rich families, she says, she says, and grants for poor students are lower. So the SNP “is actively reinforcing inherited inequalities in wealth. It’s that simple.”
The SNP’s great policing experiment – merging eight constabularies into one nationwide force – has also become a case study in what not to do.
If Theresa May’s flagship police reform had gone so badly, she would be an ex-Home Secretary. But things are different in Scotland. The SNP is adept at changing the topic of conversation to one it prefers and dodging the scrutiny it deserves.
Yep, my daughter has just started her law degree at Edinburgh this week. She says it is incredibly posh and just like being at Dundee High. She will leave University with no fee related debt, hopefully to go on to a solid middle class career. How is this helping social mobility in Scotland exactly?0 -
FPT:
So much for the 'game changing' Vow:
[Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044
On topic.
Nay! Nay! And Thrice Nay!
Scotland is in Labour's DNA - and London Labour will never reconnect with Working Class England if Scotland is amputated - it will end up a minority party of the Public Sector Middle Class, the sort of people who would select Corbyn for leader....0 -
Well she would say that wouldn't she (and it is obviously true). But it doesn't mean that they can't make common ground. The SNP love fantasy economics.Scott_P said:
But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the ToriesDavidL said:I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
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The problem with that is that Labour is between a rock and a hard place. They don't want to give up on their Scottish heartlands and admit they're gone - but attacking the SNP reinforces that even Labour think the SNP is scary to the English electorate; while trying to calm English fears of the SNP to the Scots by saying how well Labour and SNP can work together will reinforce SNP incumbency. They're being squeezed on two fronts and whichever way they turn will hurt their other one.DavidL said:I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
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Ms Sturgeon is now trying to engineer a position in which the SNP manifesto for Holyrood gives her the mandate to hold a second referendum, but leaves the final decision on whether to go ahead entirely in her hands.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4560365.ece
This is a woman with unprecedented power. And yet she lacks the confidence to let her own party members have a proper debate on the SNP’s defining aim: Scottish independence. Instead, she is having to work hard to demonstrate that there will be no sell-out, no betrayal, and therefore no need for a rebellion.
“Trust me,” she is telling them. But trust is a two-way street. And in its dealings with its own members the SNP leadership is showing a lack of trust that is certainly complacent and is bordering on contempt.0 -
How will that appeal to the English though? And how do you deal with the fact that the SNP would insist the fantasy economics are to the benefit of north of the border?DavidL said:
Well she would say that wouldn't she (and it is obviously true). But it doesn't mean that they can't make common ground. The SNP love fantasy economics.Scott_P said:
But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the ToriesDavidL said:I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
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@oflynnmep: So John McDonnell does not apologise for 12 years and then when his views start hampering his career he does.0
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Why should that surprise anyone? There was plenty of polling virtually all putting No in the lead, while the one that got so much attention putting Yes in the lead was clearly in hindsight a rogue poll.CarlottaVance said:FPT:
So much for the 'game changing' Vow:
[Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-342740440 -
Yes, I remember that, he did look desperate. It was a straw in the wind like Ed going to the most marginal Tory seat (which they didn't take) which I and others commented on at the time.Philip_Thompson said:The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.
Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.
What I find interesting is how superior the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.0 -
There are lots of English who believe in fantasy economics. Those who voted Labour, green and many who didn't vote at all. I don't believe it will be enough but if we have another recession by 2020 who knows?Philip_Thompson said:
How will that appeal to the English though? And how do you deal with the fact that the SNP would insist the fantasy economics are to the benefit of north of the border?DavidL said:
Well she would say that wouldn't she (and it is obviously true). But it doesn't mean that they can't make common ground. The SNP love fantasy economics.Scott_P said:
But Nicola has already said that Labour under Corbyn can't beat the ToriesDavidL said:I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
The second question is dealt with by having a pre-election accord. Ed's refusal to speak to the SNP made the uncertainty and perceived threat much worse.
The slight flaw in my argument is that there is every sign Ed was a towering genius compared to Corbyn but that is a problem for Labour that is not caused by Scotland.0 -
Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote0
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Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.0
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More votes, pretty much no more seats, that is the problem Labour face in Scotland. Most of their former seats suffered 20% swings and are now safe SNP. A modest rise in their vote would achieve almost nothing.HYUFD said:Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote
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I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
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The last time this particular seat was elected was 2014. David Morgan (Con) won. There were also UKIP and Lib Dem representatives: we went to the hustings! The Lib Dem was from another village (Milton) some distance away, whilst the UKIP candidate (now sadly deceased) was an ex-Conservative councillor. The Green candidate was a frankly awful woman who put Mrs J totally off voting for her within a few words ...foxinsoxuk said:
LDs were also up in Haringey, and baby eaters too.SquareRoot said:
No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.OldKingCole said:
If there’s a loser in last night’s votes it seems to be UKIP!JosiasJessop said:Bourn election result:
Simon Crocker CON(579)
Jeni Sawford LD(247)
Gavin Clayton LAB(235)
Helene Green UKIP(121)
Marcus Pitcaithly GREEN(64)
Turnout a miserly 15.27%.
Nowhere near as close as I was expecting.
https://twitter.com/SouthCambs?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author
In Bourn it doesn't look as if LD or UKIP stood last time.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/644637569842552832
I'm a bit peeved with the local Conservatives. Morgan served as a councillor in this ward a few years ago, but resigned his seat in ?2011? as he was working abroad. He stood for election again in 2014 and said he was settling in this country. A little over a year later, and he's abroad again.
IMO he (or the Conservatives) should pay the cost of the election. Resigning once for work reasons is fair enough. Resigning twice is taking the p*ss ...0 -
Our press is bad, but at least we do not have Trump and his big wall.Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic0 -
Different elections can have different rules. Unless you are saying there should only ever be one set of rules for elections, whatever the organisation?Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
Besides, I'm in favour of compulsory voting, with caveats. That'll stop the problem ...
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Good morning all. When it comes to Scotland, Labour is in zugzwang.Philip_Thompson said:
The problem with that is that Labour is between a rock and a hard place. They don't want to give up on their Scottish heartlands and admit they're gone - but attacking the SNP reinforces that even Labour think the SNP is scary to the English electorate; while trying to calm English fears of the SNP to the Scots by saying how well Labour and SNP can work together will reinforce SNP incumbency. They're being squeezed on two fronts and whichever way they turn will hurt their other one.DavidL said:I expect John McDonnell to try and make common cause with the SNP in his anti-austerity campaign: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-known-john-mcdonnell-for-30-years--heres-what-hes-really-like-10500246.html His job, whether he chooses to accept it or not, is to persuade the English that Nicola is not that scary and that a fair settlement can be reached. This really should not be beyond the wit of man. It was the useless Labour response to this attack that caused the problem, not the attack itself. With so much less to lose in Scotland it should be a lot easier for them the next time.
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Roger hatin' on the English. It must be daylight outside.Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic0 -
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.0 -
DavidL said:
Yes, I remember that, he did look desperate. It was a straw in the wind like Ed going to the most marginal Tory seat (which they didn't take) which I and others commented on at the time.Philip_Thompson said:The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.
Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.
What I find interesting is how superior the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.
Tim Farron, Norman Lamb, Caroline Lucas, Douglas Carswell, Gisela Stewart, Jamie Davies, Justin Tomlinson all examples of well known local figures who did better than the national average for their parties in marginals thanks to ground gameDavidL said:
Yes, I remember that, he did look desperate. It was a straw in the wind like Ed going to the most marginal Tory seat (which they didn't take) which I and others commented on at the time.Philip_Thompson said:The event during the election that made me first think the LD's knew they were onto a worse than predicted result was in the final days Clegg appeared on the media shouting about "Tory lies" regarding how they could win a majority by winning however many seats. That the Tories were lying because they knew they couldn't win that many seats.
Clegg looked nasty, angry and desperate which was not normal for him. I don't believe he was as ignorant of the upcoming results until after 10pm on election night as has been made out.
What I find interesting is how superior the centrally directed phone banked campaigning proved to be to the traditional local campaign by a well known face. I have never believed the ground game was as important as some claimed but it seems to be positively archaic after 2015.0 -
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.0 -
It shouldn't.Philip_Thompson said:
Why should that surprise anyone? There was plenty of polling virtually all putting No in the lead, while the one that got so much attention putting Yes in the lead was clearly in hindsight a rogue poll.CarlottaVance said:FPT:
So much for the 'game changing' Vow:
[Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044
But its central to the SNP narrative of
- 'We only lost because of the vow' (not true)
- The Vow has not been delivered (can't pin them down on specifics - Cameron tried and they ran away)
- Therefore the only solution is another once in a generation SindyRef0 -
Given the importance of govt, you're clearly arguing for a higher threshold for elected officials.Charles said:
Depends what you are trying to determine.Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
Different questions have different thresholds for relevance0 -
Have you ever been to France ?Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic0 -
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
Give Tube customers a vote on whether there's to be a Tube strike and drop the turnout requirement if you wish. Except you know what the answer would be.0 -
That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.Philip_Thompson said:
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.0 -
The SNP would be idiots to push a second referendum now. A second referendum would not be a once in a generation event, as in Quebec a second one would be a final once in a lifetime one.CarlottaVance said:
It shouldn't.Philip_Thompson said:
Why should that surprise anyone? There was plenty of polling virtually all putting No in the lead, while the one that got so much attention putting Yes in the lead was clearly in hindsight a rogue poll.CarlottaVance said:FPT:
So much for the 'game changing' Vow:
[Prof Curtice said] "It's not clear The Vow made much difference, not least because if you actually looked at the detail of the opinion poll often regarded as being responsible for it - The YouGov poll for the Sunday Times - you can see very clearly from that poll that among those people whose first preference was more devolution - the group to which the Unionists were then trying to appeal - were already between five and six-to-one saying they were going to vote 'No'.
And Prof Mitchell said: "A great deal is claimed about The Vow that it shifted opinion. We've had a look at this and we simply can't find any evidence that it really had that impact."
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-34274044
But its central to the SNP narrative of
- 'We only lost because of the vow' (not true)
- The Vow has not been delivered (can't pin them down on specifics - Cameron tried and they ran away)
- Therefore the only solution is another once in a generation SindyRef
Ask the same question now and you'll get the same question. They need to wait a few years and change things before they call a second vote only once they should win it. Which they won't now.0 -
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.0 -
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
0 -
I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?0
-
;-)Casino_Royale said:
I hear Marquee Mark is in line for a lot of criticism.Charles said:
I liked this line.felix said:
The review will not be completed until later this year. It is expected not to direct blame at Mr Clegg or Lord (Paddy) Ashdown, who ran the election campaign, or to argue that the Lib Dems lacked money.
Ok, so it wasn't the leadership, and it wasn't the campaign team, and it wasn't resourcing.
So who's left to blame... Fatcha?0 -
The SNP have a right to be in a coalition but the electorate have a right to judge other parties going into coalition with them.0
-
East Renfrewshire and Paisley South are in the top 100 Labour targets and Central belt seats like Paisley north and Kirckaldy and Glasgow Central in the top 120DavidL said:
More votes, pretty much no more seats, that is the problem Labour face in Scotland. Most of their former seats suffered 20% swings and are now safe SNP. A modest rise in their vote would achieve almost nothing.HYUFD said:Under Corbyn losing Scotland would certainly not be in their interests as Labour is likely to poll very badly in England and Wales outside the inner cities. Glasgow and the Central belt is one of the few areas in the UK Corbyn could produce any increase on the 2015 Labour vote
0 -
No they don't, under the election of Prime Minister (actually Parliament) there is a turnout option from every adult in the United Kingdom being eligible to vote.Jonathan said:
That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.Philip_Thompson said:
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
Under a union ballot turnout is automatically restricted to a small subset of those affected. The Tube for example is a public service but it can be shut down based on turnout of just a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of those affected by it.0 -
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.Jonathan said:
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.0 -
There is a fascinating line in that article, which completely cuts across the view of OGH that in General Elections we vote for our representative in 650 constituencies, and not for a central leader:felix said:
"But their analysis is likely to conclude that the "incumbency factor" was blown away in a close election because many people voted for David Cameron to be Prime Minister and were not thinking about their constituency."
We did try to tell you...0 -
It would be interesting to see an analysis of what happens if say half the Green votes switch to Labour. It would be very important, though not always decisive, is some marginal - I lost my seat in 2010 by less than the Green vote, and Brighton Kemptown would go. Not sure how many others.SquareRoot said:
No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.
Meanwhile, important polling straw in the wind in the US - Carson overtaken Trump in Michigan:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
I find it hard to take Carson seriously based on the first debate (missed the second one), where he seemed completely at sea, but I'm not remotely a GOP voter. Opinions from TimT and TimB and others who know the scene would be interesting.0 -
"White girls have been made more vulnerable to sexual abuse by a legal ruling that paedophiles who target Asian girls should get tougher sentences, campaigners said last night.
Children’s charities and MPs rounded on judges at the Court of Appeal after they said that it was right to take into account the extra shame Asian victims would feel and the damage to their prospects of an arranged marriage."
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/crime/article4560315.ece0 -
I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest Monday.
ThreeQuidder is 36 today.0 -
As the Prime Minister is implicitly elected by parliament, he actually has a turnout threshold much higher than 40%.Jonathan said:
That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.Philip_Thompson said:
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.0 -
Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.Plato_Says said:I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?
0 -
Happy Birthday, Mr Quid
ThreeQuidder said:I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest Monday.
ThreeQuidder is 36 today.0 -
This old nonsense again?Jonathan said:
That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.Philip_Thompson said:
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.
Here's the difference: the country does have to have a prime minister. No union has to go on strike.0 -
I didn't think the campaign said a UK government featuring the SNP would be illegitimate,just that it would be a very bad idea, but perhaps I'm misremembering. I do remember people deliberately ignored the distinction between Scottish MPs ion government in general and those who came from a party advocating break up of the nation.0
-
I remember a Tory MP telling me that he thought history books would record the decline of British democracy as largely due to our having the most negative and cynical media in the western world, an he might be right. Voters are generally reasonable though IMO, and are not quite so easily swayed.Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic0 -
As if that would be the only change. That is as naive as Tory right wingers thinking a drive to the right would cause them to get UKIP plus the Tories vote combined.NickPalmer said:
It would be interesting to see an analysis of what happens if say half the Green votes switch to Labour. It would be very important, though not always decisive, is some marginal - I lost my seat in 2010 by less than the Green vote, and Brighton Kemptown would go. Not sure how many others.SquareRoot said:
No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.
In your seat in 2010 three times as many voted UKIP as voted Green. If Labour took half the Green vote and Tories took half the UKIP vote (as Labour had gone further to the left) then you would have lost by a bigger margin.0 -
Alternatively the Tories were supported by around 18% of the UK population. And I have as much say on who gets to be PM as I do on whether Tube Drivers get to strike.JEO said:
As the Prime Minister is implicitly elected by parliament, he actually has a turnout threshold much higher than 40%.Jonathan said:
That's a good candidate for the weakest argument ever mounted on pb.com.Philip_Thompson said:
There's a difference because every adult is eligible to vote in an election. Only employees are eligible to vote in a strike ballot (not customers or employers who are both affected).Jonathan said:Clearly with a turnout of 15% , the outcome is not valid. I heard somewhere you need at least 50% now.
It curious that the Tories demand a lower turnout threshold for the election of the Prime Minister than union ballots.0 -
Happy Birthday!ThreeQuidder said:I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest Monday.
ThreeQuidder is 36 today.0 -
People can't really be that stupid, can they?JEO said:
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.Jonathan said:
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
How low do you think the lab % will go?0 -
On unions, (other than The Unio, Which is dying on its knees), I can find no fault with the opt in funding proposals for all I'm sure it's maliciously motivated (that fewer people will opt in does not make it fair, it just means people will learn what happens if unions suffer lack of funds in that specific area- if it is very bad, they will have to learn to start paying, and this time it won't be an automatic thing but a positive choice) but the threshold levels, while not intrinsically wrong, I do find weak - I find the comparison with MP elections hard to ignore.0
-
I see Brazil has just banned corporate donations to elections. Its a sad situation when developing countries are ahead of us on the curve.0
-
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead. "He'll never be my Prime Minister" was often the sentiment, I'm told.Pong said:
People can't really be that stupid, can they?JEO said:
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.Jonathan said:
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.0 -
How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?JEO said:
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.Pong said:
People can't really be that stupid, can they?JEO said:
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.Jonathan said:
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Under 20%?0 -
SimonStClare said:
Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.Plato_Says said:I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?
0 -
When did they make that suggestion? I recall I, and no doubt many others,msuggesting itbwith varying levels of seriousness a year ago. It was funnier when I allowed my surprise at a No win to consider if the issue might be settled for a little while at least. Really it's something we should have had a long time ago, but it's probably way too late now.ThreeQuidder said:I fully support the UKIP suggestion that 18th September be celebrated as Union Day.
Furthermore, this should be a bank holiday, celebrated always on the 18th (unless that be a Saturday or Sunday), not just moved to the nearest0 -
During the show I posted a harmless joke on twitter about the fact that at least McDonnell had dressed for the occasion and immediately got a reply from some loon going on about my extreme Maoism and why all neo-liberals are s***bags. Strange combination.SimonStClare said:
Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.Plato_Says said:I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?
0 -
RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
0 -
Interesting piece by Marr from an essentially Blairite perspective, but fair enough in its own terms:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/09/between-revolution-and-reform-challenge-facing-jeremy-corbyn0 -
I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.Pong said:
How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?JEO said:
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.Pong said:
People can't really be that stupid, can they?JEO said:
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.Jonathan said:
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Under 20%?
0 -
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)Roger said:RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)0 -
One of the worst thread headers yet. I don't understand how someone can write like this.0
-
Yet when it was to your advantage, you did not hesitate to use that 'negative and cynical media' for your own purposes.NickPalmer said:
I remember a Tory MP telling me that he thought history books would record the decline of British democracy as largely due to our having the most negative and cynical media in the western world, an he might be right. Voters are generally reasonable though IMO, and are not quite so easily swayed.Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips move during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate news is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic0 -
There are no harmless jokes made at the great leaders expense.rottenborough said:
During the show I posted a harmless joke on twitter about the fact that at least McDonnell had dressed for the occasion and immediately got a reply from some loon going on about my extreme Maoism and why all neo-liberals are s***bags. Strange combination.SimonStClare said:
Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.Plato_Says said:I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?
0 -
That's not a positive development.JEO said:I see Brazil has just banned corporate donations to elections. Its a sad situation when developing countries are ahead of us on the curve.
0 -
Slovenly is the word.kle4 said:
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)Roger said:RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)0 -
Seems the case. I am considering forming a neo-liberal Maoist party though.kle4 said:
There are no harmless jokes made at the great leaders expense.rottenborough said:
During the show I posted a harmless joke on twitter about the fact that at least McDonnell had dressed for the occasion and immediately got a reply from some loon going on about my extreme Maoism and why all neo-liberals are s***bags. Strange combination.SimonStClare said:
Apparently he’s still pressing ahead with the compulsory introduction of dress down Friday.Plato_Says said:I missed QT, is there anything left of Corbyn's New Old Labour radical agenda?
0 -
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.kle4 said:
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)Roger said:RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.
0 -
Not wearing a tie is one thing, wearing a tie and not doing your top button is just stupid.Jonathan said:
Ties are an anachronism that are going the way of hats, which 40 years ago were regarded as a vital requirement.kle4 said:
For me it's not even a respect thing - I just cannot stand top buttons being undone while wearing a tie. (I said he looked fine though)Roger said:RADIO 5. Urgent....Urgent....Urgent......Urgent
Could anyone who has had a relative killed or injured during the second world war (up to and including second cousins) please contact us so you can express your disgust at Jeremy Corbyn's decision to leave his top button undone during Rememberance Day Sunday. Nicky Campbell will then emote on your behalf. (Calls will be charged a 10p a minute different charges apply to mobiles)
In 50 years, I expect few will wear a tie in any circumstance.0 -
Michigan is Carson's home stateNickPalmer said:
It would be interesting to see an analysis of what happens if say half the Green votes switch to Labour. It would be very important, though not always decisive, is some marginal - I lost my seat in 2010 by less than the Green vote, and Brighton Kemptown would go. Not sure how many others.SquareRoot said:
No NO NO myboy, you are not reading the script... NPEXMP was posting last night about Green votes going to Labour in Haringey, though it won't win Labour an election, most likely pile up more votes in Labour seats.
Meanwhile, important polling straw in the wind in the US - Carson overtaken Trump in Michigan:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/
I find it hard to take Carson seriously based on the first debate (missed the second one), where he seemed completely at sea, but I'm not remotely a GOP voter. Opinions from TimT and TimB and others who know the scene would be interesting.0 -
Indeed and Rousseff's party faces corruption allegations and is union backedPhilip_Thompson said:
That's not a positive development.JEO said:I see Brazil has just banned corporate donations to elections. Its a sad situation when developing countries are ahead of us on the curve.
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25 to 30 percent is likelyJEO said:
I doubt it will be that bad - even toxic single events don't kill a third of your vote. But I now think they could go under 25% in the next couple of polls.Pong said:
How dire do you think it will be for Labour in the next yougov?JEO said:
Turns out people like our politicians to be patriotic and to dress respectfully for formal events honouring the war dead.Pong said:
People can't really be that stupid, can they?JEO said:
I have heard down the canvassing grapevine that the national anthem issue has had what we call 'breakthrough resonance'. Lots of people apparently bringing it up unprompted, including lifelong Labour voters. I'll be interested in seeing the first poll.Jonathan said:
It was hardly deafening. It was few editors and political opponents on social media looking for a way to knock Corbyn. It was sad and anachronistic.SquareRoot said:
You are absolutely wrong. The general population want to dress casually, but if our politicians on official duty did so, you would be deafened by the chorus of disapproval from the gen public..(not just the media). as Corbyn found out.Jonathan said:
Nah, the comment on buttons and dress code is both pathetic and out of date. Something out of a 1950's Debretts.SquareRoot said:
Its what made Britain great Roger, Attention to detail. Corbyn's disrespect and lack of dress sense needs noting. He would be a laughing stock on the foreign stage(not that he isn't already)Roger said:I wonder if there is any other nation in Europe or even the world who are quite as petty as the Englsh? It's the price we pay for having a right-wing foreign owned media with a financial interest in keeping the population embroiled in trivia.
'Was the apology he gave for something he said twelve years ago sincere'?....leading the news
'Did he correctly fasten the top button on his shirt at Remembrance Day'?.....led the news for a day
'Did his lips nmove during the national anthem'?....led the news for four days
Meanwhile we have the biggest refugee crisis the world has seen since the war and the only way you get accurate reporting is to visit the dark net
It's frankly pathetic
But being a luvvie , one cannot expect you to understand.
Under 20%?0
