politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Guest slot: Corbyn represents something more than just Corb

William_H said:

Corbyn's election seems more like a sign of engagement and hope, to me. This isn't people giving up on politics, this is people believing they can use it to change things.

If there was disillusionment and disengagement, it was in the cynical realism that saw people accepting Blairite/Brownite control of the party because it was seen as the only possibility. Corbyn represents an outbreak of reckless and probably foolhardy hope.

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

flightpath01 said:

madasafish said:

Blue_rog said:

Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.

Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.

Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.

There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.

I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!

My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..
When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

madasafish said:

Estobar said:

MyBurningEars said:

Estobar said:

dr_spyn said:

Estobar said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:

Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.

You left out the nurses, the lovely nurses, the lovely voting nurses, the lovely Labour voting nurses.

Last time I checked nurses are health workers

SimonStClare said:

Estobar said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

But, compared with much of the last fifty years, mostly people seem pretty content:

Christ. You haven't got a clue! Go and talk to teachers, health workers, people trying to get on the housing ladder, students not to mention people forced to use food banks, pound shops, wonga dealers ... the list could go on.

Where were all these outraged citizens last May ?

Incapable of voting for that arse Ed Miliband or the traitorous Nick Clegg. By the way, where is Clegg?!!

The MSM have failed to gauge the mood. We all just needed someone worthy to follow.

You need to think carefully about who exactly you mean by "we all".

You then need to go and have a detailed, analytical look at the demographic makeup of Britain. (Your friends, your colleagues, your family, people you know on facebook, people who live near you that you know of... forget all about them. They're anecdotal, unrepresentative. You need to look at the big picture: millions of people, not hundreds or thousands. For that you need cold hard statistics.).

60% of 425,000 of 500,000 eligible lalala.

But, and I know this will seem arrogant, I'm more in tune with ordinary people than 90% of people on this site.

You need to wake up and smell the cappuchino. There's a sea-change taking place. No wonder the media are running around like the proverbial headless.

I assume I have come to the wrong blog and this is for children.

CarlottaVance said:

Nick Cohen:

The Labour party must dig deep into roots if it is to survive. The Blairites cannot do it, they are finished now. The far left is triumphant but they are a tiny force in the Parliamentary Labour Party, and nowhere near as popular in the country as their deluded supporters imagine.

Watson as Brutus

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2015/09/will-labour-move-corbyn/

Scott_P said:

@PickardJE: Am hearing that Team Corbyn may abandon the new PMQs format next week...

Cyclefree said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severe hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.

All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.

Cyclefree said:

madasafish said:

Blue_rog said:

Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.

Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.

Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.

There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.

I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!

My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..

When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..

madasafish said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

My wife helps with food collection for banks. She happens to know some of the people who collect food form the banks. A few of f their issues appear to be self inflicted.

madasafish said:

Cyclefree said:

madasafish said:

Blue_rog said:

Every generation thinks they have it tough. But really speak to those who had to live through the war: my mother celebrated her 17th birthday in August 1944 in Rome, having been separated from her family and having endured years of bombing in Naples. Not worrying about which degree course to take.

Those who graduated in the early 1980's graduated into a recession.

Before 1979 you couldn't take money out of the country - a bit of a bar to travelling here, there and everywhere.

There are significant issues to deal with but the moaning by the young as if they have or will have a tougher time than previous generations, when life has improved immeasurably over the last 30 years, let alone by comparison with the previous 30, lacks a sense of proportion, frankly.

I graduated in '78, first real job in '79, remained pretty much fully employed since then. I suppose I dodged several bullets!

My father was wounded in Burma and spent 3 years there fighting the Japanese. My mother was bombed in London. They both survived , married and survived REAL austerity - imagine food rationing and a Chancellor who increased taxes "to reduce consumer demand"..

When I see lots of obesity - 60% of UK adults are obese, and drinking .,.. and mobile phones - I see not austerity but warped priorities..

In response to the above:-


I agree. My mother and her family knew real hunger. Read Norman Lewis's "Naples 44" (IMO one of the best war books ever written) to learn what it was like. And there were no food banks. If you were caught with black market food, you could and would be shot.

The flat I grew up in had no central heating. Now people moan if their download speeds aren't fast enough.

I have 3 children. I worry about their prospects, of course I do, and I think there are real issues. But in this part of the world at this time they are fantastically lucky to have the opportunities they have and to have grown up in a country without war and without being in the shadow of war. That is very different to previous generations; indeed the last generation of which it could be said would be the late Victorians/Edwardians.

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.

currystar said:

You have to ask why 90% of the refugees from Syria are young fit men. What on earth was Merkel thinking. I wonder if Bob Geldof fancies some of those lads on the roof in his home?

Cyclefree said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.

All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.

oxfordsimon said:

TOPPING said:

oxfordsimon said:

TOPPING said:

A surprising 95% approval rate for Jezza's PMQs amongst Guardian readers.

But they did let this slip through:

"When I received a Labour party email asking for questions to be posed to the prime minister this week, all I could think of was: ‘Prime Minister, can you believe your luck?’ "

v amusing.

I don't find that surprising at all. There are many, many Corbyn supporters who spend their time bigging him up all over the interwebs. Their slacktivism will surely extend to clicking on the Guardian website.

I'm sorry.

I need to work on my sarcasm in print. No indeed it is not surprising. CiF thought they had collectively died and gone to heaven upon the appointment of Jezza. Of his entry into the leadership contest, for that matter.

I mean look at @Estobar - I'm sure he did his apprenticeship over there and look how incisive and acute his posts are.*

*note: more sarcasm.

Perhaps it is I who should be more attuned to sarcasm (considering how often I am sarcastic)

Estobar is just one in a long line of trolls who have come and gone on here. I just wish I could get the widget to work properly - but it isn't great with Chrome.

SeanT said:

watford30 said:

SeanT said:

Verified account ‏@AndrewBeatty 2m2 minutes ago
#BREAKING Migrants overrun police at flashpoint border crossing, entering Hungary - AFP

This is where the shooting starts.

Yes. Ultimately you have to use lethal force, if the alternative is to lose control of your frontiers. Horrific.

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.

JEO said:

The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.

JEO said:

The idea that people who vote Conservative do not know hardship or anyone who has been affected by hardship is a bizarre one. Many Conservative voters lived through the 1970s and know just how much hardship socialism causes. A large number of them had to work hard to climb out of difficult starting circumstances and were only able to thanks to Thatcher's reforms. Then there are those of us who are involved in charity work, often due to our faith background.

The problem the left seems to have is that they either do not know many Conservatives, or they are so self-righteous in how they discuss politics that friends with Tory tendencies refrain from opening up about being so.

stodge said:

Again, it's ironic that barely 60 years ago 200,000 Hungarian refugees fled into Austria when the Red Army rolled in to crush the Hungarian Uprising.

Nobody cared about an open border then.

malcolmg said:

It is all getting very nostalgic on here today , who will be first to say they used to have to go up chimneys as a lad

The_Apocalypse said:

Cyclefree said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severe hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you assume that people who vote Conservative are not aware of the problems of those with mental illness? This affects people in all classes.

All sorts of people may be affected by unemployment, illness, crime etc. It does not follow that because you vote Tory you aren't affected. It may be that you vote that way because you think that they are more likely than the other lot to help resolve the problems.

When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.

madasafish said:

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.

My wife and I saved up to buy a house in the 1970s. We did not drink or smoke, owned no TV, took no holidays and ran a 10 year old rusty Mini Estate.. Then we had children and still had no spare cash..and struggled.

I don't have a great deal of sympathy...

JosiasJessop said:

The_Apocalypse said:

JosiasJessop said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."

That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.

I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?

Is everyone with mental illness dependent on state services, or indeed affected by austerity? No. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of mental illness never get touched by state services, because they remain hidden.

People suffering from mental illness - even at an extreme level - can remain functioning in society so friends, family and colleagues do not know they are suffering. And when state services do get involved, even with the best of intentions and financing, they can make the situation for an individual worse.

Regular readers for more than a couple of years standing may be able to guess why this sort of thing annoys me so much.

MTimT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.

Ms Apocalypse. I think the fairest approach in political discourse is to assume others who disagree with you do so out of the same good intentions as you had in arriving at your own political convictions, until such time as they prove otherwise.

For me, I assume that conviction politicians from both the Tories and Labour both want maximum prosperity for Britain. Where they differ is in relation to how to achieve it and, to a lesser extent, what society should look like once optimal policies have been adopted and have had time to have their full effect.

To me, as a fiscal conservative more of the Austrian school then either Keynes or Chicago, the emphasis of policies should be to create an environment conducive to entrepreneurial endeavour, opportunity, and removal of barriers to full participation in education and the workforce. I.e. my emphasis is more of maximizing the pot and enabling all to have a go at grabbing their share - this includes the Ds and Es - so my emphasis is on the efficiency of the economy, with equity addressed more through enabling participation and opportunity than through redistribution (although some of the latter is required)

Of course, the emphasis on 'efficiency' should not be unchecked - we have to adapt policies to recognize public goods and bads, other externalities, unlevel playing fields and information imbalances. This is where the equity part of the equation comes in for me.

And even if you want to boil this discussion down to purely political terms, as a Tory I wouldn't be writing off people in D and E because they consistently vote Labour, but be seeking to enable as many of their number as possible to climb up into the Cs, Bs and As and switch their vote, based not only on self-interest but in the belief that the economic policies pursued were the right ones.

The_Apocalypse said:

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.

BIB: I wouldn't say that qualifies as real hardship. It's not a big deal if you can't pay for holidays and luxuries. I'm thinking of people struggling to even pay for basic things like food, electricity etc.

malcolmg said:

madasafish said:

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.

My wife and I saved up to buy a house in the 1970s. We did not drink or smoke, owned no TV, took no holidays and ran a 10 year old rusty Mini Estate.. Then we had children and still had no spare cash..and struggled.

I don't have a great deal of sympathy...

So you want the poor to have as crap a time as you had then

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

HurstLlama said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

Why do you think that only people dependent on the state suffer from real hardship? There are an awful lot of people with cars jobs and mortgages that struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day and for whom holidays and luxuries (booze, meals out etc.) are beyond reach.

BIB: I wouldn't say that qualifies as real hardship. It's not a big deal if you can't pay for holidays and luxuries. I'm thinking of people struggling to even pay for basic things like food, electricity etc.

Did you actually read my post: which part of, "Struggle to pay the bills and get through to the next pay day" do you think not qualifies as real hardship? Is it perhaps that people who struggle to pay for food and the basics from their earnings,as opposed to living on state support, are somehow not genuinely hard-up?

taffys said:

''I was thinking of those knowing people going through hardship now, as opposed to the past - thus the reference to austerity. And many Labour voters, courtesy of the Thatcher years know just how much hardship Conservatism causes.''

Fatcha!!! Change the record. Life was just as tough in the 1970s when labour at least partly ruled. Every heard of the three day week? Bankrupt Britain in 76? 20% inflation? the Winter of Discontent?

Morris_Dancer said:

Mr. Royale, none of the broadcast media appear to have mentioned the polling at all, possibly because it's completely opposed to the broadcast media's own view.

Casino_Royale said:

stodge said:

Again, it's ironic that barely 60 years ago 200,000 Hungarian refugees fled into Austria when the Red Army rolled in to crush the Hungarian Uprising.

Nobody cared about an open border then.

Yes, I wonder what the difference is between that and now?

I really can't fathom..

MTimT said:

The_Apocalypse said:

When I was writing about those going through severe hardship I was thinking of those going through financial problems as well as suffering mental illness. And while on an individual basis your second point may be true, generally most of those in the D/E class/the poorest in society do not vote Conservative. I can't say whether those who vote Conservative really believe voting such will help those most vulnerable - I'm simply saying that there are those out there who are affected by austerity.

Ms Apocalypse. I think the fairest approach in political discourse is to assume others who disagree with you do so out of the same good intentions as you had in arriving at your own political convictions, until such time as they prove otherwise.

For me, I assume that conviction politicians from both the Tories and Labour both want maximum prosperity for Britain. Where they differ is in relation to how to achieve it and, to a lesser extent, what society should look like once optimal policies have been adopted and have had time to have their full effect.

To me, as a fiscal conservative more of the Austrian school then either Keynes or Chicago, the emphasis of policies should be to create an environment conducive to entrepreneurial endeavour, opportunity, and removal of barriers to full participation in education and the workforce. I.e. my emphasis is more of maximizing the pot and enabling all to have a go at grabbing their share - this includes the Ds and Es - so my emphasis is on the efficiency of the economy, with equity addressed more through enabling participation and opportunity than through redistribution (although some of the latter is required)

Of course, the emphasis on 'efficiency' should not be unchecked - we have to adapt policies to recognize public goods and bads, other externalities, unlevel playing fields and information imbalances. This is where the equity part of the equation comes in for me.

And even if you want to boil this discussion down to purely political terms, as a Tory I wouldn't be writing off people in D and E because they consistently vote Labour, but be seeking to enable as many of their number as possible to climb up into the Cs, Bs and As and switch their vote, based not only on self-interest but in the belief that the economic policies pursued were the right ones.

currystar said:

malcolmg said:

currystar said:

It terms of affordability I think that food is as cheap as it has ever been in my lifetime. With some clever shopping (getting the bargains at Tescos etc) it is amazing how much food you can get for £10. You can buy a 2kg bag of pasta for less than a quid and a tin of tomatoes for 20pence. You couldn't do that 20 years ago even allowing for inflation. I could easily feed a family of 4 for a week for £10. Everyday tescos sell stuff that is going out of date for 10pence or less. I regularly go and see what bargains I can get.

The term poverty is definitely relative

LOL, you must be eating pig swill at those prices. Also eating sacks of pasta and such like is what makes the poor people fat. Crap diet by having to buy cheap muck.
If you had said £10 a day I may have believed it.

Come to Tescos at Bursledon in Hampshire at 8 tonight. They have all sorts of bargains on all their produce from meat to vegetables to bread. You can fill your freezer up for less than a fiver. It just takes a little bit of clever shopping.

I just used the pasta as an example.

JosiasJessop said:

The_Apocalypse said:

JosiasJessop said:

The_Apocalypse said:

On austerity and mobile phones - I suppose it depends. The vast majority of people in this country are unlikely to be affected by austerity, and it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity. In particular, those who vote Conservative are highly unlikely to see any kind of austerity, because they're unlikely to know people going through severve hardship. Therefore it's easy to conclude, in a consumerism driven society, seeing everyone with all their gadgets out in public to conclude austerity doesn't exist. For some, it is a very real experience.

"it'll be those most dependent on state services - those who suffer from mental illness for example - who are affected by austerity."

That's a rather one-dimensional and crass depiction of mental illness.

I don't quite get how my statement is one-dimensional or crass. Explain?

Is everyone with mental illness dependent on state services, or indeed affected by austerity? No. In fact, I'd argue that the majority of mental illness never get touched by state services, because they remain hidden.

People suffering from mental illness - even at an extreme level - can remain functioning in society so friends, family and colleagues do not know they are suffering. And when state services do get involved, even with the best of intentions and financing, they can make the situation for an individual worse.

Regular readers for more than a couple of years standing may be able to guess why this sort of thing annoys me so much.

taffys said:

''But then I was thinking of those who were ill who may have suffered due to cuts - thus, they are directly affected by austerity.''

The NHS has always done a rubbish job on mental illness even before 'austerity'

You have always had to accept hastily doled out Anti-depressants or wait weeks for counselling.

Want to see a proper, fully qualified shrink? forget it unless you are a genuine danger to yourself and others.

The_Apocalypse said:

I guess it varies. I get the impression that some Conservatives do genuinely care, and want the best for all in society. Then I see other opinions online, where it come across that those who are D/E are written off, because they either vote Labour, or most likely are not engaged with politics at all - and that middle class, CD2Es, WVMs are all that matter.

Casino_Royale said:

This is very bias reporting from the BBC in favour of the migrants IMHO:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-34272242