IIRC - it's each CLP that's making the vetting decisions along with help from the NEC - they'd be a good point to start from to see if your ballot is being processed or lost.
We didn't pay half the bill. We just paid the full bill. The EU asks us to cough up, and we do.
No! No! JEO. You've got it all wrong. That's not how Britain's power relationship with the EU works. "The EU asks orders us to cough up, and we do." (Fixed it for you).
We have to stay in though. Think of all the influence that we would lose if there was a Brexit.
We have paid what we agreed to at the time and on time. ie July and Sept. Do Bloomberg know what they are talking about? Given the complexities as outlined by the FT at the time I doubt it. Still it makes a nice headline.
@bucklitsch: The little Syrian boy was well clothed & well fed. He died because his parents were greedy for the good life in Europe. Queue jumping costs
I'm as shocked as you are to find he stood for UKIP in May
Former LibDem. He stood for the LibDems in Thanet South in 2010 and was a LibDem councillor in Wealden and later Crowborough, where he was involved in some, ahem, colourful incidents.
He stood for UKIP in Wimbledon in May.
The Lib Dems dodged a bullet there.
I thought LDs in general were all liberal on immigration. Quite shocked he used to be one tbh.
Some local councillors use political parties as flags of convenience.
We could say that for any group. If a black person does xyz, will the public hate all black people for it? It says more about the society we live in, if people think that. But since this is being brought up, as a reason not to let in many of the refugees, then we can help in another way.
Like for example spending twice as much as all the other countries in the EU put together on aid on the spot and in neighbouring countries? That's what we are doing right now.
Yes, and as I've said before that's clearly not enough, and we need a more extensive solution to the crisis.
@bucklitsch: The little Syrian boy was well clothed & well fed. He died because his parents were greedy for the good life in Europe. Queue jumping costs
I'm as shocked as you are to find he stood for UKIP in May
Former LibDem. He stood for the LibDems in Thanet South in 2010 and was a LibDem councillor in Wealden and later Crowborough, where he was involved in some, ahem, colourful incidents.
He stood for UKIP in Wimbledon in May.
The Lib Dems dodged a bullet there.
I thought LDs in general were all liberal on immigration. Quite shocked he used to be one tbh.
Some local councillors use political parties as flags of convenience.
MrsB, the creased white suit is only for the chairman! Overalls the uniform of the proletariat!
Mr. Eagles/Miss Plato, there's a danger in assuming there's a Borg-like 'public view'. It's entirely possible for some people to be very generous, and others to be very concerned/angry about the same subject.
Just look at the immigration debate.
Ms. Apocalypse, there's been significant racial tensions regarding the Gastarbeiter. Even leaving that aside, Turkey of decades ago is not comparable to ISIS of today.
Ms. Apocalypse (2), can't comment much more on Rotherham as I'm not from there, so I just hear stuff on the local news occasionally.
Mr. JEO, the Beatles are wildly overrated. Not bad, mind, but compare their best tracks to Queen's and there's no comparison.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
"This is similar to what many negotiators do when they sit down at the table to hammer out a deal. They come armed with facts, and they attempt to use logic to sway the other party. They figure that by piling on the data and using reason to explain their side of the situation, they can construct a solution that is simply irrefutable—and get the other party to say yes. They’re doomed to fail, however, because decision-making isn’t logical, it’s emotional, according to the latest findings in neuroscience."
"Since the mind evolved to select a few signals and then dream up a semblance, whatever enters our consciousness is overemphasized. It does not matter how the information enters, whether via a television program, a newspaper story, a friend's conversation, a strong emotional reaction, a memory—all is overemphasized. We ignore other, more compelling evidence, overemphasizing and overgeneralizing from the information close at hand to produce a rough-and-ready reality.
The [mental] system we recruited had the primary aim of reacting quickly to immediate danger—those who did lived long enough to produce us. Those who acted more thoughtfully and with due deliberation of the proper course, who could avoid panic when confronted by mild threats—who acted rationally, that is—probably lived shorter, and thus less generative, lives. The survival argument against rationality in primeval conditions is that payoff is very lopsided: Fail to respond to a real danger, even if that danger would kill you only 1/10,000 as often, and you will be dead. A few years later, you will be deader in evolutionary terms, for fewer of your genes will be around. However, an overreaction to danger produces only a little hysteria, a little stress, and maybe a little embarrassment—probably little or no loss of reproductive ability. Maybe the excitement would even recruit a little more reproductive effort!
Running from every snake or tiger or loud noise probably doesn't disrupt life too much. Not running, while it might kill you only slightly more often, can eventually produce major changes in the population. The same numbers hold in this example as for the height difference cited earlier. If panic in response to a threat in all cases improved survival by even 1/10,000, those who panicked would be 484 million times more populous than those who did not. And so it was good to respond emotionally and quickly to the average dangers threatening most of our ancestors. Rationality is a great idea and ideal, but we never had the time for it; we don't have time for it now, and thus we don't have the mind for it." Robert Ornstein, The Evolution of Consciousness.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
Corbyn losing to Cooper on third preferences by 1% would be all the Tories Christmases coming at once.
We could say that for any group. If a black person does xyz, will the public hate all black people for it? It says more about the society we live in, if people think that. But since this is being brought up, as a reason not to let in many of the refugees, then we can help in another way.
Like for example spending twice as much as all the other countries in the EU put together on aid on the spot and in neighbouring countries? That's what we are doing right now.
Yes, and as I've said before that's clearly not enough, and we need a more extensive solution to the crisis.
Yes, and to repeat what I've said before, I think other Middle Eastern countries should accept Syrian refugees as well. I think Jordan, and Lebanon have also accepted some Syrian refugees.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
Corbyn losing to Cooper on third preferences by 1% would be all the Tories Christmases coming at once.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
The power and influence of a pb leader?
We saw similar with a few articles on here before the election.
I don't see why people wavering over Corbyn would switch to Cooper anyway. She hasn't exactly reached out to these voters.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
The power and influence of a pb leader?
To be fair, the sums 'changing hands' on BFair are small.
Where shall we begin? The social problems, the drownings, the enriching of people smugglers (which include ISIS), the increased terrorism?
Cretins.
"There's a crisis of immigration! Let's encourage more!"
And, then round on the UK and other countries for not helping them out,
Don't forget the original rescue mission:
The UK proposed scooping migrants out of the water and returning them to Libya. They argued that to do otherwise would encourage more migration. And were roundly condemned for being heartless.
Now the policy has encouraged more migration they are criticised for not sharing the burden. The temptation is to reply 'I told you so'
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Yeah, I think Lebanon have accepted 1.7m Syrian refugees.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
The power and influence of a pb leader?
No, doesn't explain the Burnham/Cooper crossover. Liz has also stayed out in the 200s. If it was purely an effect of the article, Burnham would be at 6.3; Cooper 7.7; Liz 150s or so.
She is tumbling. It was 11 a few days ago. Are punters starting to sniff something in the wind? I remain optimistic that sense will prevail in the end and am sticking with Cooper. Cometh the hour, cometh the 2nd preferences.
Corbyn losing to Cooper on third preferences by 1% would be all the Tories Christmases coming at once.
I wonder how many Labour supporters will have put an 'X' in the box rather than 1,2, and 3.
Also a proportion will not have given a second or third preference deliberately rather than by accident.
Just been reminded of Vietnamese Boat People [Undecover Boss Australia]. Was that the early 80s? We took quite a few refugees here IIRC.
Anyone remind me?
Mid 70's onwards.
Britain has always been happy to offer sanctuary to those in need, but the vast amount of what seems to be largely uncontrolled economic migration from both within the EU and outside in the last decade, has done much to curb our enthusiasm to help others who genuinely require assistance to settle here.
MrsB, you are Jeremy Corbyn and I claim my free pair of overalls and little red book.
Overalls? Surely you mean creased white suit?
Am trying to take comfort in the fact that the 4% difference between me and Jezza is roughly the same as the difference between the DNA of human beings and chimps.
Obviously YOU are the human being and Jezza is the chimp chump.
I'm 5% Corbyn - The only thing you like about Corbyn is that it means the Tories will win again
[swaggering] 96% for me, my man!
I got 96% including "sell off some parts of the NHS", No Tax Rises, Jeremy Piven, Scruffy for beards, the Fedora, River Island for jumpers and Breaking Bad none of which I would have thought would indicate ones Corbynism.
Where shall we begin? The social problems, the drownings, the enriching of people smugglers (which include ISIS), the increased terrorism?
Cretins.
"There's a crisis of immigration! Let's encourage more!"
And, then round on the UK and other countries for not helping them out,
Don't forget the original rescue mission:
The UK proposed scooping migrants out of the water and returning them to Libya. They argued that to do otherwise would encourage more migration. And were roundly condemned for being heartless.
Now the policy has encouraged more migration they are criticised for not sharing the burden. The temptation is to reply 'I told you so'
Ferrying people from North Africa to Italy was just asking for trouble.
I'm 5% Corbyn - The only thing you like about Corbyn is that it means the Tories will win again
[swaggering] 96% for me, my man!
I got 96% including "sell off some parts of the NHS", No Tax Rises, Jeremy Piven, Scruffy for beards, the Fedora, River Island for jumpers and Breaking Bad none of which I would have thought would indicate ones Corbynism.
I got 45% despite wanting to sell off the NHS, keep our nukes, and supporting the Iraq War! I think they just want to encourage people to vote for him.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Plato
I got the same 5% with the same selections as you.
Are we related? My ancestry can be traced to the Surrey/Sussex border in 1250.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Yeah, I think Lebanon have accepted 1.7m Syrian refugees.
Just been reminded of Vietnamese Boat People [Undecover Boss Australia]. Was that the early 80s? We took quite a few refugees here IIRC.
Anyone remind me?
Mid 70's onwards.
Britain has always been happy to offer sanctuary to those in need, but the vast amount of what seems to be largely uncontrolled economic migration from both within the EU and outside in the last decade, has done much to curb our enthusiasm to help others who genuinely require assistance to settle here.
Also the entirety of the Vietnamese Boat People immigration was 90,000 people over about four years, people are rightly concerned that we are looking at the thin end of a vastly larger wedge at the moment.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Yeah, I think Lebanon have accepted 1.7m Syrian refugees.
BBC Reporting on Today's Franco-German communique. QUOTE The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said. END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
As I said earlier, it's a sick version of the lottery, where almost all must be losers.
I notice they all have fancy mobile phones, which no doubt fuel their fantasies...
I was in province here as recently, mostly fishing villages and subsistence rice farmers, mostly on substantially less than what would be called absolute poverty. Surprising how many smart phones you see, even quite good ones. I enquired further, apparently people occasionally get a small windfall, a couple of months casual work in a nearby town, or a few hundred quid sent to them by a more successful relative in the city or working abroad. I had naively expected such money to be used to extend the house, or buy a bigger plot of land, but it seems smart phones are the preferred item to buy. I think its partly a status symbol, something to show to admiring neighbours who are less fortunate, and partly its a tangible connection to the modern world that makes them feel like they are moving with the times. Its also a good source of entertainment of course, but almost none of them can afford significant phone credit to buy internet access more than very occasionally.
Do they get good connections? I hope they are aware of all the roaming charges.
I invariably got better coverage on O2 when in Africa than when down in Devon....
Alas, I'm a Geordie and Viking, but as another PBer noted - they're like Normans but have worse cheese and weather.
I'm very encouraged how many can identify a Fedora given how unusual hat wearing is nowadays. Apparently @kle4 sports a Panama. I'm more the Fedora/Safari/Dinkum sort.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Plato
I got the same 5% with the same selections as you.
Are we related? My ancestry can be traced to the Surrey/Sussex border in 1250.
Bring back term-time holidays: New Lib Dem leader Tim Farron calls for children to miss up to 10 days of school because cost of breaks punishes the poor
EXCLUSIVE: Lib Dem leader backs 'liberal principle of choice' for parents Warns people who work in tourism industry are unable to take breaks Michael Gove scrapped rule giving headteachers discretion on holidays Families face £60 fines if they take children out of school lessons
I'm 5% Corbyn - The only thing you like about Corbyn is that it means the Tories will win again
[swaggering] 96% for me, my man!
I got 96% including "sell off some parts of the NHS", No Tax Rises, Jeremy Piven, Scruffy for beards, the Fedora, River Island for jumpers and Breaking Bad none of which I would have thought would indicate ones Corbynism.
I got 45% despite wanting to sell off the NHS, keep our nukes, and supporting the Iraq War! I think they just want to encourage people to vote for him.
Are there actually any bands that aren't 5%, 45% or 96%?
Alas, I'm a Geordie and Viking, but as another PBer noted - they're like Normans but have worse cheese and weather.
I'm very encouraged how many can identify a Fedora given how unusual hat wearing is nowadays. Apparently @kle4 sports a Panama. I'm more the Fedora/Safari/Dinkum sort.
Ms. Apocalypse, both Lebanon and Jordan have accepted vast numbers [especially in proportional terms, I think something crazy like a quarter of Lebanon's population is Syrian refugees].
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Plato
I got the same 5% with the same selections as you.
Are we related? My ancestry can be traced to the Surrey/Sussex border in 1250.
Any fan of Indiana Jones will know what a Fedora is
France and Germany to propose "permanent compulsory mechanism" in Europe to spread out refugees, notably from Syria, announced Francois Hollande, saying certain countries he would not name are not "doing their share".
Meanwhile, the new Juncker distribution plan under consideration increases the temporary relocation of refugees from 40,000 to 160,000, writes Matthew Holehouse in Brussels.
The first plan only included Italy and Greece - the new version suggests relocating 54,000 people from Hungary for the first time.
Commission officials discussed the plan in three private sessions on Wednesday, it is understood. The move on Hungary is regarded as an attempt to soften the opposition of eastern European countries that came out in unison against the earlier plan, according to one EU source.
BBC Reporting on Today's Franco-German communique. QUOTE The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said. END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
Is there any sign that the UK will actually join whatever they come up with? Won't they just opt out from whatever it is?
Britain has opted out of UN and EU schemes that could mean accepting tens of thousands more asylum seekers, with the focus on spending aid money in the war torn countries from which people are fleeing.
Mr Cameron argues that opening the door to more refugees is not the answer to the crisis triggered by tens of thousands of people massing in Greece, Italy and Hungary.
France and Germany to propose "permanent compulsory mechanism" in Europe to spread out refugees, notably from Syria, announced Francois Hollande, saying certain countries he would not name are not "doing their share".
Meanwhile, the new Juncker distribution plan under consideration increases the temporary relocation of refugees from 40,000 to 160,000, writes Matthew Holehouse in Brussels.
The first plan only included Italy and Greece - the new version suggests relocating 54,000 people from Hungary for the first time.
Commission officials discussed the plan in three private sessions on Wednesday, it is understood. The move on Hungary is regarded as an attempt to soften the opposition of eastern European countries that came out in unison against the earlier plan, according to one EU source.
Germany + France not only tearing up the Dublin Regulation, but jumping up and down on it.
BBC Reporting on Today's Franco-German communique. QUOTE The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said. END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
Is there any sign that the UK will actually join whatever they come up with? Won't they just opt out from whatever it is?
Any opt-out is temporary. As soon as they get EU passports, we're opted right back in.
Cameron has been fantastic on this issue, refusing to be pressured into foolish schemes and sticking rigorously to logical approaches to helping out which will actually address the problem rather than exacerbate it.
France and Germany to propose "permanent compulsory mechanism" in Europe to spread out refugees, notably from Syria, announced Francois Hollande, saying certain countries he would not name are not "doing their share".
Meanwhile, the new Juncker distribution plan under consideration increases the temporary relocation of refugees from 40,000 to 160,000, writes Matthew Holehouse in Brussels.
The first plan only included Italy and Greece - the new version suggests relocating 54,000 people from Hungary for the first time.
Commission officials discussed the plan in three private sessions on Wednesday, it is understood. The move on Hungary is regarded as an attempt to soften the opposition of eastern European countries that came out in unison against the earlier plan, according to one EU source.
Germany + France not only tearing up the Dublin Regulation, but jumping up and down on it.
Thats what you have when you get Germany ruling the roost and Vichy France backing Berlin up. Hitler must be dancing on his own ashes.
Abdullah, the father of Aylan Kurdi (Abdullah Shenu) has spoken to Dogan News Agency and explained the devastating moment his children slipped from his hands.
Mr Kurdi said he paid traffickers twice before crossing over to Kos and at one point, even tried to take off on their own after the two failed efforts.
Unfortunately, water filled the boat soon after they set off.
Quote In our first attempt, coastguards captured us in the sea and then they released us. In our second attempt, the organisers did not keep their word and did not bring the boat."
He described the moment when the boat sank yesterday.
Quote People panicked when water filled the boat and it sank. We had life vests. I was holding my wife’s hands. My children slipped from my hands. We tried to hold onto the boat but it deflated rapidly.
Everyone was screaming. I could not hear the voices of my children and my wife. I tried to swim to the beach by following the lights. I looked for my wife and children on the beach but couldn’t find them.
He did not think they were dead at this point and went back to Bodrum.
BBC Reporting on Today's Franco-German communique. QUOTE The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said. END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
One can but suspect this is going to go down in flames. Not only because there will be resistance from the UK, but Hungary doesn't exactly sound impressed with events at present, and I cannot imagine the Balts, Poles, Slovaks, Bulgarians, Romanians, or Club Med are going to fizz with enthusiasm. However, how on earth is that one going to stick with Syrians et al who now have their hearts set on Germany since Auntie Angela opened her mouth yesterday. "Sorry old chap I know you and the family wanted Darmstadt, but if you get a big scale map of Latvia (you know L.A.T.V.I.A. - oh never mind) you'll be able to see where we're sending you. Close your eyes and it's just like Bavaria".
Of course Martin Schulz and Juncker will be wheeled out to declare the inevitable watering down as a triumph of European solidarity and cohesion, when it's really just the Germans making policy up from the TV screen, telling the French first to tag along and then everyone else.
BBC Reporting on Today's Franco-German communique. QUOTE The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said. END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
Is there any sign that the UK will actually join whatever they come up with? Won't they just opt out from whatever it is?
Any opt-out is temporary. As soon as they get EU passports, we're opted right back in.
Cameron has been fantastic on this issue, refusing to be pressured into foolish schemes and sticking rigorously to logical approaches to helping out which will actually address the problem rather than exacerbate it.
I wish he was this good on other issues.
I wonder if this is the fabled 'bust up with the French and Germans'. Cameron is going to emerge from this fight victorious and save us from the assylum seeking hordes, to get us voting for the EU with light hearts (although zero further forward than we were before).
Mr. K, well, we all have our odd little proclivities. I don't think less of you because of your fondness for golf. It seems quite common, here.
Mr. JEO, perhaps, but I think a lot of people will be wondering about Germany's stance here (and previously on Greece).
'Solidarity' looks suspiciously like doing whatever Germany wants.
Edited extra bit: Mr. 1983, if you think Cameron engineered the largest migration since WWII to win the referendum then you have greater faith in his abilities than I do.
France and Germany to propose "permanent compulsory mechanism" in Europe to spread out refugees, notably from Syria, announced Francois Hollande, saying certain countries he would not name are not "doing their share".
Meanwhile, the new Juncker distribution plan under consideration increases the temporary relocation of refugees from 40,000 to 160,000, writes Matthew Holehouse in Brussels.
The first plan only included Italy and Greece - the new version suggests relocating 54,000 people from Hungary for the first time.
Commission officials discussed the plan in three private sessions on Wednesday, it is understood. The move on Hungary is regarded as an attempt to soften the opposition of eastern European countries that came out in unison against the earlier plan, according to one EU source.
Germany + France not only tearing up the Dublin Regulation, but jumping up and down on it.
I see no real problem with taking in 11% of 160,000.
The problem comes when two countries, Sweden and Germany, decide to operate an open door, so that it becomes 11% of a limitless number.
Thats what you have when you get Germany ruling the roost and Vichy France backing Berlin up. Hitler must be dancing on his own ashes.
You do not help the eurosceptic cause with these arguments.
Why???
Because the current governments of France and Germany are completely unlike the evil Nazi and Vichy regimes that ruled in the 1930s, and the ludicrous comparison distracts attention away from a much more valid and measured criticism of the way these nations dominate the EU.
Thats what you have when you get Germany ruling the roost and Vichy France backing Berlin up. Hitler must be dancing on his own ashes.
You do not help the eurosceptic cause with these arguments.
Why???
Because the current governments of France and Germany are completely unlike the evil Nazi and Vichy regimes that ruled in the 1930s, and the ludicrous comparison distracts attention away from a much more valid and measured criticism of the way these nations dominate the EU.
Quite. This is Germany blundering about trying to help. They're making a pig's ear of it in my view and are ultimately doing more harm than good, but I don't doubt their benign intentions.
BBC Reporting on Today's Franco-German communique. QUOTE The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said. END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
Is there any sign that the UK will actually join whatever they come up with? Won't they just opt out from whatever it is?
Any opt-out is temporary. As soon as they get EU passports, we're opted right back in.
Cameron has been fantastic on this issue, refusing to be pressured into foolish schemes and sticking rigorously to logical approaches to helping out which will actually address the problem rather than exacerbate it.
I wish he was this good on other issues.
So far... But I do worry he will cave in to pressure.
Watching Cameron being PM on foreign policy matters is like watching Tim Henman play tennis in the Wimbledon quarter-finals.
Mr. K, golf's boringness probably contravenes the Geneva Convention.
You have cut me to the quick, Morris. Sob!
Mr K: you're going to have to face it: golf's status as an intensely boring 'sport' has been confirmed by one person who likes morris dancing, and another who likes riding behind trains.
Take it from me: golf is very. very boring. And that's coming from someone who likes spending months walking on his own.
I'm 5% Corbyn - The only thing you like about Corbyn is that it means the Tories will win again
[swaggering] 96% for me, my man!
I got 96% including "sell off some parts of the NHS", No Tax Rises, Jeremy Piven, Scruffy for beards, the Fedora, River Island for jumpers and Breaking Bad none of which I would have thought would indicate ones Corbynism.
Corbynism is for everyone, it is whatever you think it is, not what it actually is.
Mr. K, golf's boringness probably contravenes the Geneva Convention.
You have cut me to the quick, Morris. Sob!
Mr K: you're going to have to face it: golf's status as an intensely boring 'sport' has been confirmed by one person who likes morris dancing, and another who likes riding behind trains.
Take it from me: golf is very. very boring. And that's coming from someone who likes spending months walking on his own.
I tried that Jeremy Corbyn quiz but then it asked me about six TV programmes, none of which I have ever watched. So I gave up.
I just chose Downton, even though I never watched it either! Still, ended up 96% Corbyn!
I am genuinely astonished that 2 political geeks have never watched the West Wing. Admittedly it was the only one of the 6 I had watched but still.
5% Corbyn. Just could not bring myself to say the Gulf war was the right thing to do. Corbyn is not half as good as a broken clock: right about one thing in 30 years!
Thats what you have when you get Germany ruling the roost and Vichy France backing Berlin up. Hitler must be dancing on his own ashes.
You do not help the eurosceptic cause with these arguments.
Why???
Because the current governments of France and Germany are completely unlike the evil Nazi and Vichy regimes that ruled in the 1930s, and the ludicrous comparison distracts attention away from a much more valid and measured criticism of the way these nations dominate the EU.
I tried that Jeremy Corbyn quiz but then it asked me about six TV programmes, none of which I have ever watched. So I gave up.
I just chose Downton, even though I never watched it either! Still, ended up 96% Corbyn!
I am genuinely astonished that 2 political geeks have never watched the West Wing. Admittedly it was the only one of the 6 I had watched but still.
5% Corbyn. Just could not bring myself to say the Gulf war was the right thing to do. Corbyn is not half as good as a broken clock: right about one thing in 30 years!
He was right for the wrong reasons though.
I gave every anti-Corbyn answer to the quiz I could, and still got 5%. Must be rigged
Mr. K, golf's boringness probably contravenes the Geneva Convention.
You have cut me to the quick, Morris. Sob!
Mr K: you're going to have to face it: golf's status as an intensely boring 'sport' has been confirmed by one person who likes morris dancing, and another who likes riding behind trains.
Take it from me: golf is very. very boring. And that's coming from someone who likes spending months walking on his own.
Mr. K, golf's boringness probably contravenes the Geneva Convention.
You have cut me to the quick, Morris. Sob!
Mr K: you're going to have to face it: golf's status as an intensely boring 'sport' has been confirmed by one person who likes morris dancing, and another who likes riding behind trains.
Take it from me: golf is very. very boring. And that's coming from someone who likes spending months walking on his own.
"Golf is a good walk spoiled." - Mark Twain
I thought that was Oscar Wilde? Never mind - it's still true.
Bring back term-time holidays: New Lib Dem leader Tim Farron calls for children to miss up to 10 days of school because cost of breaks punishes the poor
EXCLUSIVE: Lib Dem leader backs 'liberal principle of choice' for parents Warns people who work in tourism industry are unable to take breaks Michael Gove scrapped rule giving headteachers discretion on holidays Families face £60 fines if they take children out of school lessons
Allow more flexibility for 3 or 4 terms, moving holidays / half term lengths etc. Not all schools have to be in attendance at the same time - Easter, Christmas and New Year apart, which takes care of all of 3 or 4 weeks of the year.
I heard the Hungarian President say that this crisis is nothing to do with them because none of the migrants wanted to stay in Hungary (or Slovakia or any of the other less salubrious areas of the EU). They wanted to stay in Germany.
I suspect he'd be quite pleased to wave them on their way.
Comments
It was indeed a vile comment.
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"Since the mind evolved to select a few signals and then dream up a semblance, whatever enters our consciousness is overemphasized. It does not matter how the information enters, whether via a television program, a newspaper story, a friend's conversation, a strong emotional reaction, a memory—all is overemphasized. We ignore other, more compelling evidence, overemphasizing and overgeneralizing from the information close at hand to produce a rough-and-ready reality.
The [mental] system we recruited had the primary aim of reacting quickly to immediate danger—those who did lived long enough to produce us. Those who acted more thoughtfully and with due deliberation of the proper course, who could avoid panic when confronted by mild threats—who acted rationally, that is—probably lived shorter, and thus less generative, lives. The survival argument against rationality in primeval conditions is that payoff is very lopsided: Fail to respond to a real danger, even if that danger would kill you only 1/10,000 as often, and you will be dead. A few years later, you will be deader in evolutionary terms, for fewer of your genes will be around. However, an overreaction to danger produces only a little hysteria, a little stress, and maybe a little embarrassment—probably little or no loss of reproductive ability. Maybe the excitement would even recruit a little more reproductive effort!
Running from every snake or tiger or loud noise probably doesn't disrupt life too much. Not running, while it might kill you only slightly more often, can eventually produce major changes in the population. The same numbers hold in this example as for the height difference cited earlier. If panic in response to a threat in all cases improved survival by even 1/10,000, those who panicked would be 484 million times more populous than those who did not. And so it was good to respond emotionally and quickly to the average dangers threatening most of our ancestors. Rationality is a great idea and ideal, but we never had the time for it; we don't have time for it now, and thus we don't have the mind for it." Robert Ornstein, The Evolution of Consciousness.
Yet I suspect i am in the same political party as MrsB. Must be a broad church.
Mr. Evershed, logically, the hat can only be 1%.
The beard must be 4% (it's the only bit MrsB was lacking). Therefore, the hat must be 1%.
Anyone remind me?
I don't see why people wavering over Corbyn would switch to Cooper anyway. She hasn't exactly reached out to these voters.
The UK proposed scooping migrants out of the water and returning them to Libya. They argued that to do otherwise would encourage more migration. And were roundly condemned for being heartless.
Now the policy has encouraged more migration they are criticised for not sharing the burden. The temptation is to reply 'I told you so'
Also a proportion will not have given a second or third preference deliberately rather than by accident.
I thought the quiz was wrong. I don't wear a vest, I'm not stuck in 1967, and I don't think that Hamas, Hezbollah and IS are always the good guys.
They may question why his parents put him at risk travelling from safe Turkey to safe Greece in an unsafe dingy.
Britain has always been happy to offer sanctuary to those in need, but the vast amount of what seems to be largely uncontrolled economic migration from both within the EU and outside in the last decade, has done much to curb our enthusiasm to help others who genuinely require assistance to settle here.
chimpchump.It's very hard to design proper psychometric or personality tests, it must be said.
I got the same 5% with the same selections as you.
Are we related?
My ancestry can be traced to the Surrey/Sussex border in 1250.
Turkey 1.8 million
Lebanon 1.2 million
Does that make you 33% Corbyn?
Thanks for the info.
QUOTE
The European Union must act in a decisive manner and in line with its values, the statement from French President Francois Hollande said.
The two governments "have announced joint proposals to organise the reception of refugees and a fair distribution in Europe" as well as "converging standards to strengthen the European asylum system," he said.
END-QUOTE
So France and Germany to decide a "fair distribution" then?
As usual, the EU rotates around the same old Franco-German axis. Anything that the UK has to say on any subject gets disregarded as usual.
I'm very encouraged how many can identify a Fedora given how unusual hat wearing is nowadays. Apparently @kle4 sports a Panama. I'm more the Fedora/Safari/Dinkum sort.
A group of genetically engineered mutants run to one end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They miss!
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
They run to the other end. They score.
.....ad infinitum....
Been a git of a summer here though.
Is there a case for banning anyone getting over 90% Corbyn on the test?
I think the outcomes may be, er, a little lumpy?
And, how can you call golf boring Sunil?
Cameron has been fantastic on this issue, refusing to be pressured into foolish schemes and sticking rigorously to logical approaches to helping out which will actually address the problem rather than exacerbate it.
I wish he was this good on other issues.
Thats what you have when you get Germany ruling the roost and Vichy France backing Berlin up. Hitler must be dancing on his own ashes.
Of course Martin Schulz and Juncker will be wheeled out to declare the inevitable watering down as a triumph of European solidarity and cohesion, when it's really just the Germans making policy up from the TV screen, telling the French first to tag along and then everyone else.
And what happens when the next waves arrive?
Mr. JEO, perhaps, but I think a lot of people will be wondering about Germany's stance here (and previously on Greece).
'Solidarity' looks suspiciously like doing whatever Germany wants.
Edited extra bit: Mr. 1983, if you think Cameron engineered the largest migration since WWII to win the referendum then you have greater faith in his abilities than I do.
I see no real problem with taking in 11% of 160,000.
The problem comes when two countries, Sweden and Germany, decide to operate an open door, so that it becomes 11% of a limitless number.
Watching Cameron being PM on foreign policy matters is like watching Tim Henman play tennis in the Wimbledon quarter-finals.
Take it from me: golf is very. very boring. And that's coming from someone who likes spending months walking on his own.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3220673/All-aboard-migrant-express-Germany-Chaos-Budapest-police-reopen-station-following-two-day-stand-hundreds-immediately-swarm-trains.html
However, I love playing golf.
5% Corbyn. Just could not bring myself to say the Gulf war was the right thing to do. Corbyn is not half as good as a broken clock: right about one thing in 30 years!
I gave every anti-Corbyn answer to the quiz I could, and still got 5%. Must be rigged
I heard the Hungarian President say that this crisis is nothing to do with them because none of the migrants wanted to stay in Hungary (or Slovakia or any of the other less salubrious areas of the EU). They wanted to stay in Germany.
I suspect he'd be quite pleased to wave them on their way.
So much for EU unity.