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The different demographic make-up of LAB leadership supporters
YouGov https://t.co/sBeiQyMmli pic.twitter.com/wSxg8S1qHq
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Corbyn voters really are 'odd' then.0
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The past is a different country. And so is the Labour party. But not as much as Corbyn.0
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#Labour 1st pref vote share odds from Ladbrokes http://t.co/YtCCRuKhLd pic.twitter.com/63TQH3Sjwy
— Ladbrokes Politics (@LadPolitics) August 27, 20150 -
The majority of Corbyn supporters appear to be from the Wolfie Smith School of politics.
Where have they all been hiding since 1979...0 -
You look at the figures for Corbyn, how can people who hold such strong views be prepared to accept compromise? What happens when the Labour Party policy commissions come up with more nuanced policies based on where we are?SeanT said:48% of KENDALL supporters are "strongly in favour of nationalising utilities" - a clearly insane policy, desired by just 31% of Brits.
Labour. Doomed.
Are the Labour Party going to be convincing enough to challenge the electorate and move them towards accepting a truly radical socialist alternative that is intending to throw a lot of settled things in the air?0 -
The real question for Labour is to what extent and by what means will the internal party organisation, structures, policy making and methods of appointing people to positions of influence be changed.SeanT said:48% of KENDALL supporters are "strongly in favour of nationalising utilities" - a clearly insane policy, desired by just 31% of Brits.
Labour. Doomed.
If it becomes a fully democratic party opening up the decisions to supporters, affiliates and members then it will be very difficult to move the p[arty away from a leftward lurch, a lurch beyond the acceptable borders of leftiness for most of the population.
Then there is a vacuum for some party to fill.0 -
The Corbynista royal family figure is a bit of an eye-opener. Talk about being out of touch with modern Britain.0
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50% of respondents to the survey self-describe themselves as either centre, left of centre or left. As opposed to 44% who move from centre through to right. That Corbynista views as so out of kilter with such a demographic should give at least a few of them pause for thought. But it won't.0
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Corbynites look very similar in their political views to the SNP faithful.0
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FPT
So glad you asked.Indigo said:
Because naturally the Olympics lasted for two years. Desperate. You and Dr Fox are two of a kind, how about you show some of your own evidence rather than throwing around cheap points ?Philip_Thompson said:Interesting that you cut out the date of the article (Sept 2012) and the part of the quote that referenced the London Olympics from that paragraph.
Burglary: In 2012 there were over 7k-8k per month. Year to date in 2015 that's 2k per month down with 5-6k. Down about 30%
Robbery: In 2012 there were over 3k per month. Year to date in 2015 its been around 1800 per month. Down about 40%
Theft: Reporting measurements have changed but around 15000-17000 total thefts per month in 2012. Around 14000 per month this year. Down about 20%
So yes certain types of crime spiked around the London Olympics but are down now.
Source: http://www.ukcrimestats.com/Subdivisions/GLA/2247/0 -
I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.0 -
Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.0
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How do you think the max 2 kids qualifying for benefits rule will influence future demographics and the speed of change in our population?Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
I'm almost surprised nobody has yet challenged it on Human Rights or racial / cultural grounds0 -
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.0 -
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
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Equally unsurprising: cheap, online voting tends to maximise Corbynista representation.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
If that's the future of democracy, we're in real trouble.0 -
You're not mellowing in your oppostion to Corbyn.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
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Very little I suspect. I suspect that vast majority of families either have less than 3 children and/or are not claiming the affected benefits. If you want a third child you can still have a third child, just pay for them yourself like I pay for my (only so far) daughter.philiph said:
How do you think the max 2 kids qualifying for benefits rule will influence future demographics and the speed of change in our population?Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
I'm almost surprised nobody has yet challenged it on Human Rights or racial / cultural grounds0 -
Further to previous post - according to YouGov, it's 50% of the general public that describe themselves as from centre to left, as opposed to 44% that go from centre to right.0
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Honest question - if Cameron is followed by a moderate Cameron-style Conservative while Corbyn is indeed elected and drags the party as far left as is feared (without falling victim to a coup) could you see yourself ever voting Conservative in 2020? Or is that something you'd never do under any circumstances?SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
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I find him totally repugnant in just about every way imaginable - even if he does have nice manners.Jonathan said:
You're not mellowing in your oppostion to Corbyn.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
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That would probably account for the bizarre accusations made by Corbynites against the Blairites and publications such as the Guardian.SouthamObserver said:50% of respondents to the survey self-describe themselves as either centre, left of centre or left. As opposed to 44% who move from centre through to right. That Corbynista views as so out of kilter with such a demographic should give at least a few of them pause for thought. But it won't.
In their world, everything to the right of the Morning Star is a Red-Tory traitor to the cause. It’s as though they’ve spent their entire lives on social media, glued to echo chambers.0 -
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.0 -
I would not vote Tory because I do not agree with Tory policies. But I would prefer a moderate Tory government to a Corbyn-led Labour one. Not that this is ever going to be even remotely a possibility.Philip_Thompson said:
Honest question - if Cameron is followed by a moderate Cameron-style Conservative while Corbyn is indeed elected and drags the party as far left as is feared (without falling victim to a coup) could you see yourself ever voting Conservative in 2020? Or is that something you'd never do under any circumstances?SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
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I think the term right has been tarnished by its association with racists. Left is taken to mean socialist economically but right is associated with nationalism/racism rather than right-wing economics.SouthamObserver said:Further to previous post - according to YouGov, it's 50% of the general public that describe themselves as from centre to left, as opposed to 44% that go from centre to right.
I suspect many who self-describe as centre could be right-wing economically but self-describe as centre because of that. While for left there is no "shame" in associating with being left.
I would describe my economic views as "very right wing" but I would never call myself "very right wing" or "far right" as that isn't taken to mean economically.0 -
Corbyn Supporters vs GB
Utility nationalisation: +55%
Wealth redistribution: +56%
Railway Nationalisation: +52%
Less Private sector NHS: +52%
Tuition fees government paid: +27%
No RAF vs ISIS: +27%
Anti-monarchy: +39%
Social Media main news source: +25%
None of these are remotely 'skews' - they have a fundamentally (on the role of the state very markedly so) different view of how Britain should be run.
This is not going to end well.
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So they are *all* the more well off telling us they speak for the poorer.
Room for a 'Peasants Party' somewhere?
Lessons to be learnt from the early Methodsists / Salvation Army and the more modern (1930s) Pentecostals, perhaps?
Are there *any* political movements in this country that have genuinely put down roots in the poorer half of the electorate in the last 40 years?0 -
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.0 -
I'm surprised they didn't ask:CarlottaVance said:Corbyn Supporters vs GB
Utility nationalisation: +55%
Wealth redistribution: +56%
Railway Nationalisation: +52%
Less Private sector NHS: +52%
Tuition fees government paid: +27%
No RAF vs ISIS: +27%
Anti-monarchy: +39%
Social Media main news source: +25%
None of these are remotely 'skews' - they have a fundamentally (on the role of the state very markedly so) different view of how Britain should be run.
This is not going to end well.
"Do you agree with the statement 'Immigration controls are racist'?"
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Off topic but it made me laugh:
http://www.cringechannel.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/11781729_984984731522740_1101953807745063312_n.png0 -
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.0 -
When the going gets tough, the tough get going...offline, number unobtainable.
Nothing like taking power without responsibility, but Ministers shouldn't be frit, frit, frit of the press.0 -
I was depressingly unsurprised by the echo chamber here. Given how many on the farther edges of the Left get incredibly rude/block you for the mildest criticism or simply asking for evidence...
I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
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What % of the UK did YouGov find were bat-shit crazy?0
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No many of my neighbours are (I'm guessing from language spoken and appearance) ethnically Polish and Arabic. I have no idea about how skilled or unskilled they are, though I wouldn't call myself unskilled.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.0 -
It's often said (with justice) that our political leaders have been disingenuous about the levels of immigration that they expect the country to have.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.
What level of immigration would you be comfortable with? And how have you reached your conclusion on that?0 -
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He actually quit 3 days ago, but somehow nobody got the message....CarlottaVance said:Sir Stephen House falls on his sword Taser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-340727030 -
Yvette Cooper claims that "dodgy employers and agencies" are driving unskilled immigration. How does that make sense? If unskilled migrants got better pay and conditions, surely the UK would be a more attractive place to them, not less of one?0
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Corbyn Supporters : 99%MarqueeMark said:What % of the UK did YouGov find were bat-shit crazy?
Burnham Supporters: 75%
Cooper Supporters: 60%
Kendall Supporters: 40%
General Public: 10%
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None of the candidates to lead the Labour Party seem to be on speaking terms with logic.JEO said:Yvette Cooper claims that "dodgy employers and agencies" are driving unskilled immigration. How does that make sense? If unskilled migrants got better pay and conditions, surely the UK would be a more attractive place to them, not less of one?
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Would you say your a ethnic minority in your area you live ?Philip_Thompson said:
No many of my neighbours are (I'm guessing from language spoken and appearance) ethnically Polish and Arabic. I have no idea about how skilled or unskilled they are, though I wouldn't call myself unskilled.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.0 -
Bit worried about the Morning Star sometimes. Has revionist tendencies on occasion.SimonStClare said:
That would probably account for the bizarre accusations made by Corbynites against the Blairites and publications such as the Guardian.SouthamObserver said:50% of respondents to the survey self-describe themselves as either centre, left of centre or left. As opposed to 44% who move from centre through to right. That Corbynista views as so out of kilter with such a demographic should give at least a few of them pause for thought. But it won't.
In their world, everything to the right of the Morning Star is a Red-Tory traitor to the cause. It’s as though they’ve spent their entire lives on social media, glued to echo chambers.
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Their final UKIP figure was 12%.MarqueeMark said:What % of the UK did YouGov find were bat-shit crazy?
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Very true, and if the results of my little enquiry into the sources of labour in the West Sussex market garden business are accurate and representative then the dodgy agencies are mostly run by immigrants anyway.JEO said:Yvette Cooper claims that "dodgy employers and agencies" are driving unskilled immigration. How does that make sense? If unskilled migrants got better pay and conditions, surely the UK would be a more attractive place to them, not less of one?
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Whether you are a fan of mass uncontrolled immigration or think we should have some control, that Cameron promised to get the level down to the tens of thousands and five years on we have record levels is an incredible failure on his part.
Up there with 'no more boom and bust' as a prediction that went wrong0 -
This is concerning:
Philip Duffy, chief operating officer of the Border Force, warned there is a "continuous beat" of more arranged attempts to sneak into Britain - and said the gang are plotting to use migrants to commit crimes once they get here.
"There are others who take advantage of less scrupulous hauliers and drivers who will take a fee.
"At the very higher end you've got more organised attempts where you've got some of the organised crime gangs, some of whom are bringing people in to traffic them for criminal activity in the UK.
"They are not just migrants, they are bringing them to the UK for crime."
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/599700/Calais-migrants-smuggling-gang-sneak-Britain-commit-crimes-here0 -
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Ten's of thousands like the liar Cameron told us.antifrank said:
It's often said (with justice) that our political leaders have been disingenuous about the levels of immigration that they expect the country to have.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.
What level of immigration would you be comfortable with? And how have you reached your conclusion on that?0 -
James Arbuthnot. tim will be frothing at the mouth.dr_spyn said:http://order-order.com/2015/08/27/honour-list-in-full/#:kcZ2ZEzowUDU_A
New Lords & Ladies.0 -
SeanT said:
I made a joke on Facebook (first made on here) about Corbyn not remembering if he'd had tea with himself, and even if he had, "I had no idea I had these Corbynite opinions blah blah"Plato said:I was depressingly unsurprised by the echo chamber here. Given how many on the farther edges of the Left get incredibly rude/block you for the mildest criticism or simply asking for evidence...
I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
It was a fairly mild joke. And yet a hitherto very polite academic got angry and called me a "myopic bigot"
Bigot?? For telling a joke!
The irony is that the Corbynites are exactly that: myopic, and bigoted. And humourless. Labour should be terrified.
Perhaps s/he had always thought you were a myopic bigot, and this was just an excuse to tell you.
Corbynism seems more like a cult, and anything that is negative to it (even mildly) will evoke a strong response. You are challenging the very belief system of the person.
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Someone I know from a TV show board got REALLY shouty with me for retweeting a Staggers piece critical of Corbyn "HE'S NOT STALIN!!!"
I'm afraid that I just looked at her message and thought Can't You See? He stood in front of a banner of Stalin and Mao in Trafalgar Sq...
All common sense has left the building here.SeanT said:
I made a joke on Facebook (first made on here) about Corbyn not remembering if he'd had tea with himself, and even if he had, "I had no idea I had these Corbynite opinions blah blah"Plato said:I was depressingly unsurprised by the echo chamber here. Given how many on the farther edges of the Left get incredibly rude/block you for the mildest criticism or simply asking for evidence...
I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
It was a fairly mild joke. And yet a hitherto very polite academic got angry and called me a "myopic bigot"
Bigot?? For telling a joke!
The irony is that the Corbynites are exactly that: myopic, and bigoted. And humourless. Labour should be terrified.0 -
Looking at the Issues numbers, I am a fairly typical Jezlamist.
Ha anyone kept tabs of the voting split of the PB Labourites? Is it just me, NickP and BJO in the Corbyn camp?0 -
Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.0 -
I have several ex-colleagues and university friends who post the most ludicrous bollocks on facebook, and act like real dicks to anyone who engages with that online - whereas they were, and are, not like that in 'real life'.SeanT said:
I made a joke on Facebook (first made on here) about Corbyn not remembering if he'd had tea with himself, and even if he had, "I had no idea I had these Corbynite opinions blah blah"Plato said:I was depressingly unsurprised by the echo chamber here. Given how many on the farther edges of the Left get incredibly rude/block you for the mildest criticism or simply asking for evidence...
I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
It was a fairly mild joke. And yet a hitherto very polite academic got angry and called me a "myopic bigot"
Bigot?? For telling a joke!
The irony is that the Corbynites are exactly that: myopic, and bigoted. And humourless. Labour should be terrified.
Personally, I'm getting fed up of facebook now. It's mostly adverts and people posting photos of their kids with how proud they are of their latest clothing, smile, laugh, wee, shit, trip, walk, chuck up, bawl, crawl or fall.0 -
You are not part of the Jezzbollah faithful and therefore a non person.SeanT said:
I made a joke on Facebook (first made on here) about Corbyn not remembering if he'd had tea with himself, and even if he had, "I had no idea I had these Corbynite opinions blah blah"Plato said:I was depressingly unsurprised by the echo chamber here. Given how many on the farther edges of the Left get incredibly rude/block you for the mildest criticism or simply asking for evidence...
I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
It was a fairly mild joke. And yet a hitherto very polite academic got angry and called me a "myopic bigot"
Bigot?? For telling a joke!
The irony is that the Corbynites are exactly that: myopic, and bigoted. And humourless. Labour should be terrified.
Your home will be demolished, you will become a Jezzbollah bridegroom and your books burnt .... (not all bad news then) ....
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There was a lovely anecdote from the Fink about his entry to HoL and that a friend loaned him their ermine.
Before returning the robe, Danny took it to the dry cleaners and was met with Oh, A Santa Costume!dr_spyn said:http://order-order.com/2015/08/27/honour-list-in-full/#:kcZ2ZEzowUDU_A
New Lords & Ladies.0 -
Ukip seem to be using the hashtag 'borderlessBritain'MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.0 -
If I've got this right...
Conservatives: 26 new peers
Labour: 8 new peers
UKIP: 0 new peers
Liberal Democrats: 11 new peers
SNP: 0 new peers
Greens: 0 new peers
The Lords really is a political stitch-up. I can understand why people are turning against the establishment.0 -
Absolutely absurd quantity of tory lords...
19 new Lib/Lab peers.
26 new Con peers.
So the massive block of lib/lab peers who can be a major nuisance for 5 years decreases by just 7...0 -
I remember my Dad saying that he refused to shake hands with James Arbuthnot. Dad had been painting the front door at the time.watford30 said:
James Arbuthnot. tim will be frothing at the mouth.dr_spyn said:http://order-order.com/2015/08/27/honour-list-in-full/#:kcZ2ZEzowUDU_A
New Lords & Ladies.
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Well a reasonable limit would be the rate in which the infrastructure and housing is being built to accommodate them. This is clearly being surpassed as we're not building a Nottingham sized amount of transport, hospitals and schools every year UK wide.antifrank said:
It's often said (with justice) that our political leaders have been disingenuous about the levels of immigration that they expect the country to have.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.
What level of immigration would you be comfortable with? And how have you reached your conclusion on that?
Also worth thinking about is who would benefit the country the most. A mixture of men/women/families from first world countries would be preferable to uneducated young age men from the third world.
I know of several doctorate level educated people from the US, Australia and Japan who cannot get a visa to come to the UK.0 -
My thoughts exactly.SouthamObserver said:
I find him totally repugnant in just about every way imaginable - even if he does have nice manners.Jonathan said:
You're not mellowing in your oppostion to Corbyn.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
0 -
A Spad? Simone Finn – Special Adviser to the Minister of State for Tradedr_spyn said:
http://order-order.com/2015/08/27/honour-list-in-full/#:kcZ2ZEzowUDU_A
New Lords & Ladies.0 -
The SNP would not have peers even if offered.JEO said:If I've got this right...
Conservatives: 26 new peers
Labour: 8 new peers
UKIP: 0 new peers
Liberal Democrats: 11 new peers
SNP: 0 new peers
Greens: 0 new peers
The Lords really is a political stitch-up. I can understand why people are turning against the establishment.
UKIP/Green MP numbers are no bigger than independent MPs.
0 -
That will do very little to redress the balance of the Lords in the Tories favour. LDs/Labour will still have a c.90 Lord advantage.JEO said:If I've got this right...
Conservatives: 26 new peers
Labour: 8 new peers
UKIP: 0 new peers
Liberal Democrats: 11 new peers
SNP: 0 new peers
Greens: 0 new peers
The Lords really is a political stitch-up. I can understand why people are turning against the establishment.
Cameron will have to consistently win over the bulk of crossbenchers.0 -
He also said publicly months ago that he was going so it is hardly news to anyone other than Scott and Carlotta. There files must have got lost in the post.MarqueeMark said:
He actually quit 3 days ago, but somehow nobody got the message....CarlottaVance said:Sir Stephen House falls on his sword Taser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-340727030 -
@handandmouse maybe?SandyRentool said:
Looking at the Issues numbers, I am a fairly typical Jezlamist.
Ha anyone kept tabs of the voting split of the PB Labourites? Is it just me, NickP and BJO in the Corbyn camp?0 -
It is ludicrous we have a system where the numbers from each party depends on the whims of the Prime Minister at the time. At the least, new appointees should be spread among all the parties that got reasonable vote shares at the last election.Casino_Royale said:
That will do very little to redress the balance of the Lords in the Tories favour. LDs/Labour will still have a c.90 Lord advantage.JEO said:If I've got this right...
Conservatives: 26 new peers
Labour: 8 new peers
UKIP: 0 new peers
Liberal Democrats: 11 new peers
SNP: 0 new peers
Greens: 0 new peers
The Lords really is a political stitch-up. I can understand why people are turning against the establishment.
Cameron will have to consistently win over the bulk of crossbenchers.0 -
@Plato said:
>I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've >blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.
I'm a huge fan of Dr Eoin.
He's The Generic Apologist. Everybody else is an apologist for something.
Dr Eoin just gets things wrong and apologises.
http://annaraccoon.com/2013/01/13/the-many-apologies-of-dr-eoin-clarke-phd-plnkr-bf/0 -
No. Though at the bottom of my road most of the shops are in Arabic. My local barber is there, he's a nice guy. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.Tykejohnno said:
Would you say your a ethnic minority in your area you live ?Philip_Thompson said:
No many of my neighbours are (I'm guessing from language spoken and appearance) ethnically Polish and Arabic. I have no idea about how skilled or unskilled they are, though I wouldn't call myself unskilled.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.0 -
Betting Post:
1410 Stratford Berry De Carjac 200-1 ew (B365, 888, Corals)0 -
I've already voted for Corbyn. I leave it for others to decide whether this is an "authentic" vote or not - doesn't seem to be something that the Labour party machine is able to agree on.SandyRentool said:
Looking at the Issues numbers, I am a fairly typical Jezlamist.
Ha anyone kept tabs of the voting split of the PB Labourites? Is it just me, NickP and BJO in the Corbyn camp?0 -
One of the big issues Cameron could have clobbered the new labour leader like open door corbyn with was on immigration,now corbyn can laugh in his face.isam said:
Ukip seem to be using the hashtag 'borderlessBritain'MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.0 -
This is a curious phenomenon. There are surely people out there who you disagree with more strongly, who seem to inspire less passionate opposition.Cyclefree said:
My thoughts exactly.SouthamObserver said:
I find him totally repugnant in just about every way imaginable - even if he does have nice manners.Jonathan said:
You're not mellowing in your oppostion to Corbyn.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
0 -
I think on-line voting should be made compulsory. We should scrap paper voting slips and polling stations.Animal_pb said:
Equally unsurprising: cheap, online voting tends to maximise Corbynista representation.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
If that's the future of democracy, we're in real trouble.
This would encourage more people to vote, particulary young people. It might discourage some elderly from voting but that would be fine. It would help redress the current unfair bias to the elderly in the current system which is corrupting politics and encouraging inter-generational conflict.
I hope JC adds this to his policies.0 -
I've gone from being a very persuadable BINer, to flirting with BOO - to 95% BOO.
Our border/security matter to me a lot. HMG are failing very badly on immigration and I'm really irked. Our culture is being changed and I've had enough.MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.0 -
Save that Corbyn wants even more immigration and to remove what controls do exist e.g. on the minimum income needed. So Corbyn is hardly like to challenge Cameron on this and if he does Cameron has an easy answer.Tykejohnno said:
One of the big issues Cameron could have clobbered the new labour leader like open door corbyn with was on immigration,now corbyn can laugh in his face.isam said:
Ukip seem to be using the hashtag 'borderlessBritain'MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.
0 -
@ Plato
To ask a question or ask for evidence shows, in the eyes of the Left/Far Left, the urgent need for the strong revision and correction of your thought process - you need to be sent away to an improvement camp - same thinking as used in N Korea and under Stalin and Mao.
In reality only accepted members of the Party are allowed any freedom to think (and then only along strictly prescribed lines) - the rest of the people must accept what they are told without question and obey automatically. It is the ultimate crime to question anything that the beloved Leader and party says. Afraid, you will have to be taken to the Tower via traitors' gate and summarily executed as your case is beyond redemption. Then your corpse can be fed to the wild dogs and cats that roam the city.Plato said:Someone I know from a TV show board got REALLY shouty with me for retweeting a Staggers piece critical of Corbyn "HE'S NOT STALIN!!!"
I'm afraid that I just looked at her message and thought Can't You See? He stood in front of a banner of Stalin and Mao in Trafalgar Sq...
All common sense has left the building here.SeanT said:
I made a joke on Facebook (first made on here) about Corbyn not remembering if he'd had tea with himself, and even if he had, "I had no idea I had these Corbynite opinions blah blah"Plato said:I was depressingly unsurprised by the echo chamber here. Given how many on the farther edges of the Left get incredibly rude/block you for the mildest criticism or simply asking for evidence...
I'm genuinely astonished when I get retweeted something from Owen Jones or Eoin - they've blocked almost I follow, inc a bunch of soft-Lefties.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
It was a fairly mild joke. And yet a hitherto very polite academic got angry and called me a "myopic bigot"
Bigot?? For telling a joke!
The irony is that the Corbynites are exactly that: myopic, and bigoted. And humourless. Labour should be terrified.0 -
@corbynjokes @corbynjokes 5 mins
I'm not saying my mother-in-law is unpopular but she got voted out of parliament and parachuted into the House of Lords.
0 -
Oh I don't know, you'll may be able to catch up with the rest of us sometime.......Richard_Nabavi said:The Corbynista royal family figure is a bit of an eye-opener. Talk about being out of touch with modern Britain.
0 -
Re: Immigration.
Cameron and May's problem is the English & Welsh judiciary and their interpretation of thee ECHR rulings. The judiciary either needs re-education or given strict guidelines so that our borders can be safeguarded.0 -
I see the Lib Dems have got their bonuses for helping the Tories , free money for the rest of their wretched lives0
-
Corbyn as the easier answer,Cameron told false truths of getting immigration down to ten's of thousands.Cyclefree said:
Save that Corbyn wants even more immigration and to remove what controls do exist e.g. on the minimum income needed. So Corbyn is hardly like to challenge Cameron on this and if he does Cameron has an easy answer.Tykejohnno said:
One of the big issues Cameron could have clobbered the new labour leader like open door corbyn with was on immigration,now corbyn can laugh in his face.isam said:
Ukip seem to be using the hashtag 'borderlessBritain'MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.
0 -
Good gracious yes we cannot have them independent and thinking for themselves , they must be tools for the Tories.Financier said:Re: Immigration.
Cameron and May's problem is the English & Welsh judiciary and their interpretation of thee ECHR rulings. The judiciary either needs re-education or given strict guidelines so that our borders can be safeguarded.0 -
SeanT said:
48% of KENDALL supporters are "strongly in favour of nationalising utilities" - a clearly insane policy, desired by just 31% of Brits.
Labour. Doomed.
Just out of curiosity, although I know the Stuarts found it handy as a way of rewarding their favourites, what is the argument against nationalising natural monopolies?
I can't see any obvious reason to grant substantial monopoly income to private interests and lots of reason to keep them in public ownership.
I am also old enough to remember when we had substantial public ownership in the UK, and it seemed to work well enough.
If that makes me, and 31% of the rest of the population, insane it would be good to know the reason.
0 -
The Courier: http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/scotland/police-scotland-chief-constable-sir-stephen-house-quits-1.896815malcolmg said:
He also said publicly months ago that he was going so it is hardly news to anyone other thanMarqueeMark said:
He actually quit 3 days ago, but somehow nobody got the message....CarlottaVance said:Sir Stephen House falls on his sword Taser:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34072703
STV: http://news.stv.tv/scotland/1327509-head-of-police-scotland-sir-stephen-house-to-step-down-in-three-months/
Glasgow Evening Times: http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/13630463.Sir_Stephen_House_led_transition_to_single_Scotland_police_force/
Falkirk Herald: http://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/local-news/police-chief-to-step-down-1-3870428
Wrong again malcolm......got any oil price forecasts you'd like to share?0 -
Financier said:
The judiciary either needs re-education
Chortle.Financier said:in the eyes of the Left/Far Left, the urgent need for the strong revision and correction of your thought process - you need to be sent away to an improvement camp - same thinking as used in N Korea and under Stalin and Mao.
0 -
Prime Minister David Cameron has handed out peerages to 26 Conservatives including former foreign secretary William Hague.
Some 45 new peers have been appointed - despite criticism that there are too many already.
The majority of the new appointees are Tories, with the Lib Dems getting 11 and Labour eight.
Senior Labour figures to be elevated include David Blunkett, Alistair Darling and Tessa Jowell.
Among seven former Lib Dem MPs to be ennobled are former leader Sir Menzies Campbell and Sir Alan Beith.
Former Lib Dem ministers Vince Cable and Danny Alexander, who both lost their seats at the general election, are thought to have turned down the chance to enter the Lords.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-340722010 -
Not questioning your BOO choice, but what's your country you want to be like, border-wise?Plato said:I've gone from being a very persuadable BINer, to flirting with BOO - to 95% BOO.
Our border/security matter to me a lot. HMG are failing very badly on immigration and I'm really irked. Our culture is being changed and I've had enough.MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.
When you look around Europe, or the world, which is the country you most want to emulate as far as Visa-free access, etc.?0 -
Come off it,your area is no where near what I'm talking about.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Though at the bottom of my road most of the shops are in Arabic. My local barber is there, he's a nice guy. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.Tykejohnno said:
Would you say your a ethnic minority in your area you live ?Philip_Thompson said:
No many of my neighbours are (I'm guessing from language spoken and appearance) ethnically Polish and Arabic. I have no idea about how skilled or unskilled they are, though I wouldn't call myself unskilled.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.0 -
I think the answer is to be found in the preceding paragraph of your post.Recidivist said:If that makes me, and 31% of the rest of the population, insane it would be good to know the reason.
0 -
They are not standing for leadership of the Labour Party. And I do value having a decent left of centre social democratic party in this country, that could act as a viable opposition and form a government - even if it would appear that Labour party members and supporters don't. Whereas if Corbyn wins we will have a Labour party which will be something more akin to Respect, a wholly malign force, IMO.Jonathan said:
This is a curious phenomenon. There are surely people out there who you disagree with more strongly, who seem to inspire less passionate opposition.Cyclefree said:
My thoughts exactly.SouthamObserver said:
I find him totally repugnant in just about every way imaginable - even if he does have nice manners.Jonathan said:
You're not mellowing in your oppostion to Corbyn.SouthamObserver said:
There is nothing naïve about Corbyn. And those who vote for him are not naïve in ignoring his anti-western viewpoint. The irony of relying on social media for your news and seeing the US as the great Satan is no doubt lost on them.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
0 -
You asked me a question. You don't know my area but I don't see how its relevant or why I should care at all. I don't care.Tykejohnno said:
Come off it,your area is no where near what I'm talking about.Philip_Thompson said:
No. Though at the bottom of my road most of the shops are in Arabic. My local barber is there, he's a nice guy. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.Tykejohnno said:
Would you say your a ethnic minority in your area you live ?Philip_Thompson said:
No many of my neighbours are (I'm guessing from language spoken and appearance) ethnically Polish and Arabic. I have no idea about how skilled or unskilled they are, though I wouldn't call myself unskilled.Tykejohnno said:
What you have a Chinese restaurant at the end of the street.Philip_Thompson said:
I live in a multicultural area.Tykejohnno said:
What you need Mr Thompson is a dose of real life living in a poor inner city multicultural area where more and more poor unskilled people are being shoved in.Philip_Thompson said:
Who will they be lost to? Realistically voting UKIP is no different to abstaining, while Labour aren't exactly going to win votes on the subject. No other party seems relevant to a conversation on immigration.Tykejohnno said:I gave Cameron my trust on immigration,he's nothing more than a big fat liar.
The new Tories will lose voters just like new labour did on immigration.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
I also mentioned the words poor and poor unskilled immigration.
There are many areas where voting Labour and voting for Corbyn style economics is very popular. I don't agree with them, nor do I agree with others I disagree with. Strange that.0 -
Alternatively they could make judgements on the basis of what parliament said, rather than what the judge wished parliament had said.malcolmg said:
Good gracious yes we cannot have them independent and thinking for themselves , they must be tools for the Tories.Financier said:Re: Immigration.
Cameron and May's problem is the English & Welsh judiciary and their interpretation of thee ECHR rulings. The judiciary either needs re-education or given strict guidelines so that our borders can be safeguarded.0 -
What a curious view. You are fine with not having older people vote while trying to make it easier for younger people who are well able to get off their backsides and go and vote. There is no unfair bias going on. The fact that policies are geared to the old is because they do vote. The young have the vote. They choose not exercise their vote and must, like grown ups, live with the consequences. The answer is very literally in their hands: the pencil or the postal vote.Barnesian said:
I think on-line voting should be made compulsory. We should scrap paper voting slips and polling stations.Animal_pb said:
Equally unsurprising: cheap, online voting tends to maximise Corbynista representation.Richard_Nabavi said:Mind you, none of this is remotely surprising. 'Naive extreme-left winger draws support from naive extreme left-wingers' seems a bit of a non-headline.
If that's the future of democracy, we're in real trouble.
This would encourage more people to vote, particulary young people. It might discourage some elderly from voting but that would be fine. It would help redress the current unfair bias to the elderly in the current system which is corrupting politics and encouraging inter-generational conflict.
I hope JC adds this to his policies.
0 -
I am sick and tired of seeing questions such as the one framed in this survey by YouGov which asks the question:
"Think tuition fees should be paid ENTIRELY by government"
The government doesn't have any money, none whatsoever. Its only source of money is to take it from taxpayers, or to borrow it, which ultimately has to be repaid by taxpayers.
I wonder to what extent the responses to such questions would vary, were the same question be differently, yet more honestly framed as follows:
"Think tuition fees should be paid ENTIRELY by taxpayers"
0 -
Australia, possibly Canada.rcs1000 said:
Not questioning your BOO choice, but what's your country you want to be like, border-wise?Plato said:I've gone from being a very persuadable BINer, to flirting with BOO - to 95% BOO.
Our border/security matter to me a lot. HMG are failing very badly on immigration and I'm really irked. Our culture is being changed and I've had enough.MarqueeMark said:Today's immigration numbers show how we could exit the EU: if the referendum becomes not about the EU as such, but - like the 1974 "Who governs Britain?" election - becomes "who controls Britain's borders?" If the No camp can get people to vote on the basis of No = control over our own borders, Yes = control of our borders by Brussels, they may hit a very raw nerve. If the vote becomes polarised around that issue, then No wins. If...
The problem is in seeing the people who are able to steer the debate in that direction.
When you look around Europe, or the world, which is the country you most want to emulate as far as Visa-free access, etc.?0
