Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » How backers of the LAB contenders differ from each other an

124

Comments

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited August 2015
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited August 2015
    Indigo said:

    You continually trying to conflate the two, EEA membership is a right to movement of workers, not people, no job, no entry. It also conveys no right to claim benefit, and does not suborn our right to chuck out any criminals or other malcontent we wish to.

    Also if you are an non-EU member, and you obtain an National ID care in any other member state, we are required to admit them as members of the EU.

    I continually repeat the point because it is true that there is very little practical difference between EEA and EU membership as regards immigration. There are a few minor differences - benefits is one, but that's likely to be dealt with anyway as part of the renegotiation. When it is, the usual suspects will dismiss it as a very minor point in terms of the effect on numbers, and for once they will be right. Nearly all EU immigrants come here to work. They'll continue to come here, in almost indistinguishable numbers, if we leave the EU and join the EEA or a similar arrangement.

    On the second point, it is EU (or EEA) citizenship which grants the right. The numbers of people who are immigrants into other EU countries, gain nationality of another EU country, and then come here, are tiny anyway. It's a red herring, it simply isn't where the problem lies.
  • Plato said:

    Whatever happened to the Thames Gateway project?

    Do you mean the A13 between Dagenham and the M25? That was by-passed between 1998 and 1999, and the bit between Barking and Canning Town upgraded between 2003 and 2004.
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Plato said:
    Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
  • rcs1000 said:

    perdix said:

    isam said:

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:



    One of the big issues Cameron could have clobbered the new labour leader like open door corbyn with was on immigration,now corbyn can laugh in his face.

    Save that Corbyn wants even more immigration and to remove what controls do exist e.g. on the minimum income needed. So Corbyn is hardly like to challenge Cameron on this and if he does Cameron has an easy answer.

    Corbyn's line should (IMO) be that it's best to be honest. We can't stop immigration, short of the drastic and EEA. Mr Cameron says he can, and is proved wrong - some would say untruthful - every single time the figures are published. I say that we can't, and instead should move to dealing with it in a reasonable way that treats people as individuals who are encouraged to integrate and contribute to a thriving society.

    It's pretty much what I said on the doorstep for years, and not IMO a contributory reason to why I lost. Even people who were pretty anti-immigration generally accepted it as a straight answer, and some were really more anti-weaselly politicians than they were anti-immigration.

    Who calls for stopping immigration?

    Reducing it to the level we had prior to 2000 is not an unreasonable objective. And let's not kid ourselves that the economy would grind to a halt without present levels of immigration. The growth rate per capita since 2000 has been far below the level of growth per capita we saw between 1960-2000.
    "Who calls for stopping immigration?"

    Classic slippery lefty technique...

    The fact is the Conservatives Labour and Lib Dems want uncontrolled immigration (all three have overseen record increases),

    UKIP want controlled immigration,

    BNP etc want no immigration

    Two extremes with one sensible party in the middle
    Sam, you should know that Conservative policy is not uncontrolled immigration. You give kippers a bad name for not knowing the facts or trying to deceive your audience.

    Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem all support free movement within the EU which means the number of immigrants can not be controlled.
    That's not true. It's called at 400 million people.

    Once all the French have come to the Uk we can all emigrate to a France empty of french people. France occupied by the Brits would be even better than Britain occupied by Brits .....

    .... and of course so much better than France occupied by the French.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_claims_to_the_French_throne
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    It started from the Isle of Dogs - a lot of which has been done. Further extension into Essex and Kent is partly dependent on extension of Crossrail and other rail communications. Both Essex and Kent have environmentally sensitive marshes (birds etc). There has been a lot of house building in areas like Chatham and Dartford.

    There are currently tenders out for more projects in The Thames Gateway - but that is as much as I can reveal at present.
    Plato said:

    Whatever happened to the Thames Gateway project?

  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Thanx, years ago saw a presentation by the director and it looked really messy/terrible transport links.
    Financier said:

    It started from the Isle of Dogs - a lot of which has been done. Further extension into Essex and Kent is partly dependent on extension of Crossrail and other rail communications. Both Essex and Kent have environmentally sensitive marshes (birds etc). There has been a lot of house building in areas like Chatham and Dartford.

    There are currently tenders out for more projects in The Thames Gateway - but that is as much as I can reveal at present.

    Plato said:

    Whatever happened to the Thames Gateway project?

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,572
    SeanT said:

    Off topic, but on the subject of immigration, The Wife and me broke the habit of a life time and had a long weekend bang in the middle of London, and very pleasurable it was, too.
    We stayed at a (for us at least) a posh hotel, the Waldorf in Aldwych, saw a show, did the tourist thing, and paid a mortgage to eat at a posh restaurant.
    The thing that struck me was that pretty much all of the hotel staff, bar staff, ticket sellers, shop workers, market stall holders, buskers and street performers and theatre staff were all speaking in foreign accents. It was quite an eyeopener to see just how mulicultural London was, and I say that as someone who works in Leicester!

    I've just had a new kitchen put in. Every single person I've dealt with, from the staff at John Lewis Oxford Street, to the fitters, to the plumbers, to the granite installers (etc etc) has been non white or non British or both (apart from one guy who did a bit of templating)

    I've no complaints at all. It's all been nicely efficient. The Romanian (I think) fitter was particularly charming, and fast becoming a Londoner ("yeah mate, lovely job" - in a Bucharest accent). But it was quite enlightening as to just how multiracial London has become.
    Yes, the eliding of identity is interesting. I bought some shoes from a little shop on the Holloway Road last week, and the nice assistant (owner?) had a noticeable accent - possibly Italian. As he packed up the purchase I asked idly where he was born. He looked a bit surprised and said politely "I was born in Fulham". I was in "be pleasant to foreigners" mode, he was in "I wonder why he cares which borough I was born in?" mode: it didn't occur to him that I might think he was foreign-born. But it hadn't meant he'd adopted classic British (in any variety) pronunciation. Is this an example of 2nd generation integration, or of British identity eroding?

    In general people round here are so mixed that you just give up thinking "I wonder if he's Arab or Greek or Somali" because the answer is probably a bit of various places. I like it, but I can see how someone used to a more monoglot tradition would find it disturbing (that isn't meant as a criticism).

  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,172
    isam said:

    Off topic, this morning I watched a documentary about Frances Farmer followed by her "This Is Your Life" appearance.. anybody familiar with her/her story?

    This is your Life was brutal!

    Jessica Lange played her in the 80s biopic Frances, which I remember as being pretty good, if harrowing. Long time since I watched it mind.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited August 2015
    Also there has been a lot of infrastructure work for Thames Water on preventing sewage overspill etc - the first part of the project will be completed next year. A second contract has been awarded for further work down stream.

    http://www.thameswater.co.uk/about-us/10113.htm

    See also: http://www.vinci.com/vinci.nsf/en/press-releases/pages/20150824-0800.htm
    Plato said:

    Thanx, years ago saw a presentation by the director and it looked really messy/terrible transport links.

    Financier said:

    It started from the Isle of Dogs - a lot of which has been done. Further extension into Essex and Kent is partly dependent on extension of Crossrail and other rail communications. Both Essex and Kent have environmentally sensitive marshes (birds etc). There has been a lot of house building in areas like Chatham and Dartford.

    There are currently tenders out for more projects in The Thames Gateway - but that is as much as I can reveal at present.

    Plato said:

    Whatever happened to the Thames Gateway project?

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Off topic, this morning I watched a documentary about Frances Farmer followed by her "This Is Your Life" appearance.. anybody familiar with her/her story?

    This is your Life was brutal!

    Jessica Lange played her in the 80s biopic Frances, which I remember as being pretty good, if harrowing. Long time since I watched it mind.
    She was in the doc as a talking head. I will try and get the dvd of the film if poss.

    Kurt Cobain wrote a song about Farmer for the Nirvana album In Utero, but I was only vaguely aware of the story until today
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2015
    I’m biding my time until the Corbyn Shroud becomes available on Ebay c2020 :lol:
    Plato said:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Bit early for relics of St. Corbyn to emerge, isn't it?
  • MikeL said:

    Current Lords:
    Con 226, Lab 212, LD 101, Crossbench 179, Others 63, Total = 781

    Announced today:
    Con +26, Lab +8, LD +11

    Other changes pending:
    Con +1 (Hereditary by-election), Lab -1 (Hattersley retirement)

    So position going forward will be:
    Con 253, Lab 219, LD 112, Crossbench 179, Others 63, Total = 826

    So Lab + LD have 78 more Peers than Con. So still just about impossible for Con to win if Lab + LD officially oppose as there are rarely more than 78 Crossbenchers present and even if there are some will always go with Lab/LD so winning by a net 78 is nigh on impossible.

    However situation will improve as Lab + LD have many more existing Life Peers than Con - many of whom are old so will suffer a much higher attrition rate. Remember any Hereditaries who die / retire get replaced from same Party so no Hereditary attrition.

    Plus Cameron can make more new appointments over time. Key vote on Boundary Changes will be in October 2018.

    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/628249873217929218
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited August 2015

    I’m biding my time until the Corbyn Shroud becomes available on Ebay c2020 :lol:

    Plato said:
    Coming soon his shoe, his gourd...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka9mfZbTFbk
    Life of Brian. Life of Jezza.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,824

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Bit early for relics of St. Corbyn to emerge, isn't it?

    Not necessarily Mr Dancer:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9czBBKof7Yo
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    @Plato

    The Thames Tideway Tunnel extension for Thames Water costs £605m

    "The works package includes the construction of two sections of tunnel, a main tunnel (5.5 km) and a connecting tunnel (4.6 km) for combined rainwater and wastewater to the east of London. Located between 45 and 65 metres below ground, the two tunnels will be excavated using slurry pressure balance tunnel boring machines. The main tunnel will have an interior diameter of 7.20 metres, while that of the connecting tunnel will be 5 metres. The East section also includes the construction of five large shafts (diameters of between 17 and 25 metres), maritime works on the Thames, structures connecting with the existing wastewater collection system and electromechanical works packages.

    A project optimisation phase (design, methods, etc.) is starting immediately. The launch of works on the site is planned for 2016, with delivery scheduled for 2024.

    The East works package is one of three making up the Thames Tideway Tunnel, a programme that calls for the construction of a total of 25 km of tunnels. The Thames Tideway Tunnel is needed to tackle the issue of discharges of untreated sewage into the river and ensure that London’s sewerage system is fit for the 21st century.

    This contract follows on from that for the Lee Tunnel, which VINCI Construction Grands Projets and Bachy Soletanche started building to the east of London in January 2010"

    .http://www.vinci.com/vinci.nsf/en/press-releases/pages/20150824-0800.htm
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @ydoethur great minds...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Easy meat for Corbyn?

    "Expenses scandal MP given peerage - live

    Douglas Hogg, the former Tory MP who claimed for cleaning out his moat on expenses, among former special advisers and Tory donors to be given peerages and honours"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11828053/13.50.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,824
    dr_spyn said:

    @ydoethur great minds...

    Indeed yes, Dr Spyn!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,824
    isam said:

    Easy meat for Corbyn?

    "Expenses scandal MP given peerage - live

    Douglas Hogg, the former Tory MP who claimed for cleaning out his moat on expenses, among former special advisers and Tory donors to be given peerages and honours"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11828053/13.50.html

    The irony being of course that he already has a peerage. So he's twice as noble as everyone else. I'm surprised his moat doesn't burst with pride...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    @ydoethur Odds on two posters finding same reference to same film and posting links re Corbyn's coffee mug must be rather long.

    Hadn't seen your post until I had refreshed the page.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    ydoethur said:

    My inner grammar Nazi is currently climbing the wall foaming at the mouth.

    It's 'different FROM', people. 'Different FROM'. Not, 'different to'.

    Merely because a bunch of barely literate journalists who in my school would not be permitted to sit English A-level are incapable of formulating a sentence correctly is no reason to let standards slip on PB.

    We iz all caperbull of speking the Kween's Inglish on yurr, izn't uz?

    Sir Ernest Gowers (1948) says:-

    "There is good authority for different to, but different from is today the established usage. Different than is not unknown even in The Times... But this is condemned by the grammarians. Different than is, however, common in America."
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903


    I think that's in one of Dominic Sandbrook's books, he spends a big chunk in one saying that for the average person in the mid-70s, things were nearer to how we imagine the 60s to be.

    I think you're right. He certainly makes the point in "Never Had It So Good" that the 1960s were more like the 1950s. Cracking book, incidentally, highly recommended.

    (There's only one critical view on amazon: "On delivery, this book was somewhat damaged: Front and back covers both had creases in it and the corners were covered with ink." They really ought to sort out their review system. Ignore Mrs Sayer-Jones, it's even a good book if the cover's damaged!)
    I pointed out something like this the other day.
    The war stopped the ongoing development of the definable 'decades. We came out of the war pretty much stuck min a 1930's timescale. (Most of Europe were in the '40s - the 1840's). There had been no development of cars for instance or TV. Science had moved forward but only for weapons. Things did not change really until the mid 60's. By then the modern word came in with the 'swinging 60's' the Austin 1000 and Ford Cortina, ITV, 625 lines, colour telly, Bruce Forsyth. By early mid 70's these were becoming more widely available.
  • UKIP suspends candidate from Bedwas Trethomas and Machen by-election for posting on Facebook that immigrants should be gassed.

    He also labelled Muslim men paedophiles after claiming marrying children is sanctioned by Islam.

    Mr Douglas is standing in the by-election that takes place on September 3, next week, but UKIP have withdrawn their backing after investigating the offensive and Islamophobic remarks, which were uncovered by Caerphilly Observer.

    Posting on Facebook last year, Mr Douglas said of immigrants: “Gas the b******s if they don’t go. If it’s good enough for badgers it’s good enough for scum.”

    Caerphilly Observer 26th August 2015

    http://www.caerphillyobserver.co.uk/news/953194/ukip-suspends-candidate-from-bedwas-trethomas-and-machen-by-election-for-posting-on-facebook-that-immigrants-should-be-gassed/
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I see Red Dawn Primarolo is about to become a peer...
  • Plato said:

    I see Red Dawn Primarolo is about to become a peer...

    Dawn Primadonna?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341

    SeanT said:

    We stayed at a (for us at least) a posh hotel, the Waldorf in Aldwych, saw a show, did the tourist thing, and paid a mortgage to eat at a posh restaurant.
    The thing that struck me was that pretty much all of the hotel staff, bar staff, ticket sellers, shop workers, market stall holders, buskers and street performers and theatre staff were all speaking in foreign accents. It was quite an eyeopener to see just how mulicultural London was, and I say that as someone who works in Leicester!

    I've just had a new kitchen put in. Every single person I've dealt with, from the staff at John Lewis Oxford Street, to the fitters, to the plumbers, to the granite installers (etc etc) has been non white or non British or both (apart from one guy who did a bit of templating)

    I've no complaints at all. It's all been nicely efficient. The Romanian (I think) fitter was particularly charming, and fast becoming a Londoner ("yeah mate, lovely job" - in a Bucharest accent). But it was quite enlightening as to just how multiracial London has become.
    Yes, the eliding of identity is interesting. I bought some shoes from a little shop on the Holloway Road last week, and the nice assistant (owner?) had a noticeable accent - possibly Italian. As he packed up the purchase I asked idly where he was born. He looked a bit surprised and said politely "I was born in Fulham". I was in "be pleasant to foreigners" mode, he was in "I wonder why he cares which borough I was born in?" mode: it didn't occur to him that I might think he was foreign-born. But it hadn't meant he'd adopted classic British (in any variety) pronunciation. Is this an example of 2nd generation integration, or of British identity eroding?

    In general people round here are so mixed that you just give up thinking "I wonder if he's Arab or Greek or Somali" because the answer is probably a bit of various places. I like it, but I can see how someone used to a more monoglot tradition would find it disturbing (that isn't meant as a criticism).

    It's nice hearing other languages. And it is interesting learning about other people's life stories and how they or their families ended up in Britain. What I find disturbing is seeing the local Council spending time/money providing information in a variety of languages, mainly non-European ones. If people come here they can bloody well learn English - even if they speak it with an accent.

    Integration has to be a "must" and it starts with language. The option of permanent residents living here physically but behaving in all other respects as if they were still in their home country/country of parents is a no-no, IMO. That way lie ghettos and unintegrated and sometimes hostile communities which can be a breeding ground for all sorts of nastinesses.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Where do you go shopping for candidates like this?! :open_mouth:

    UKIP suspends candidate from Bedwas Trethomas and Machen by-election for posting on Facebook that immigrants should be gassed.

    He also labelled Muslim men paedophiles after claiming marrying children is sanctioned by Islam.

    Mr Douglas is standing in the by-election that takes place on September 3, next week, but UKIP have withdrawn their backing after investigating the offensive and Islamophobic remarks, which were uncovered by Caerphilly Observer.

    Posting on Facebook last year, Mr Douglas said of immigrants: “Gas the b******s if they don’t go. If it’s good enough for badgers it’s good enough for scum.”

    Caerphilly Observer 26th August 2015

    http://www.caerphillyobserver.co.uk/news/953194/ukip-suspends-candidate-from-bedwas-trethomas-and-machen-by-election-for-posting-on-facebook-that-immigrants-should-be-gassed/

  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    Indigo said:

    You continually trying to conflate the two, EEA membership is a right to movement of workers, not people, no job, no entry. It also conveys no right to claim benefit, and does not suborn our right to chuck out any criminals or other malcontent we wish to.

    Also if you are an non-EU member, and you obtain an National ID care in any other member state, we are required to admit them as members of the EU.

    I continually repeat the point because it is true that there is very little practical difference between EEA and EU membership as regards immigration. There are a few minor differences - benefits is one, but that's likely to be dealt with anyway as part of the renegotiation. When it is, the usual suspects will dismiss it as a very minor point in terms of the effect on numbers, and for once they will be right. Nearly all EU immigrants come here to work. They'll continue to come here, in almost indistinguishable numbers, if we leave the EU and join the EEA or a similar arrangement.

    On the second point, it is EU (or EEA) citizenship which grants the right. The numbers of people who are immigrants into other EU countries, gain nationality of another EU country, and then come here, are tiny anyway. It's a red herring, it simply isn't where the problem lies.
    You are correct.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Oh Carlotta , look at this on oil price forecasts, how we laughed
    https://twitter.com/PoliticsScot

    You worked out the difference between 'September 2016' and 'December 2015' yet?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Not sure that Dim Dawn improved the lot of the downtrodden in Bristol South.
  • Plato said:

    Where do you go shopping for candidates like this?! :open_mouth:

    UKIP suspends candidate from Bedwas Trethomas and Machen by-election for posting on Facebook that immigrants should be gassed.

    He also labelled Muslim men paedophiles after claiming marrying children is sanctioned by Islam.

    Mr Douglas is standing in the by-election that takes place on September 3, next week, but UKIP have withdrawn their backing after investigating the offensive and Islamophobic remarks, which were uncovered by Caerphilly Observer.

    Posting on Facebook last year, Mr Douglas said of immigrants: “Gas the b******s if they don’t go. If it’s good enough for badgers it’s good enough for scum.”

    Caerphilly Observer 26th August 2015

    http://www.caerphillyobserver.co.uk/news/953194/ukip-suspends-candidate-from-bedwas-trethomas-and-machen-by-election-for-posting-on-facebook-that-immigrants-should-be-gassed/

    Looks like he wasn't Caerphilly selected enough :)
  • Depends whether you take a descriptive or prescriptive approach. I wouldn't write off the chances of "different to" becoming considered correct formal English. Sadly I do not see "different against" making a resurgence, though I find that form rather more expressive.

    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2014/01/different-from-than-to/

    I was reading the PB archives and saw one of PB's social historians making a comment along the lines of "for most people the 1960s looked like the our vision of the 1950s people, and for most people the 1970s looked like our image of the 1960s". Can't remember who it was, though, was it you? I meant to point them in the direction of the Varian Rule in economics, which would support their argument:

    The Varian Rule holds that "A simple way to forecast the future is to look at what rich people have today; middle-income people will have something equivalent in 10 years, and poor people will have it in an additional decade." It is attributed to Google’s chief economist Hal Varian. The origin of the term is credited to Andrew McAfee of the Financial Times.

    Some notable examples include anti-lock braking systems, electronic stability control systems and airbags which first appeared on high-end luxury vehicles before becoming commoditized on more mainstream automobiles.


    ydoethur said:

    My inner grammar Nazi is currently climbing the wall foaming at the mouth.

    It's 'different FROM', people. 'Different FROM'. Not, 'different to'.

    Merely because a bunch of barely literate journalists who in my school would not be permitted to sit English A-level are incapable of formulating a sentence correctly is no reason to let standards slip on PB.

    We iz all caperbull of speking the Kween's Inglish on yurr, izn't uz?

    That was me. I believe I have posted this idea twice in the last 5 years or so. If I don't attain instant acknowledgement and long lasting recognition from now on I shall resort to multiple daily posts which end with me calling everyone else turnips and cretins. That seems to work.
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited August 2015
    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?
  • Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    We stayed at a (for us at least) a posh hotel, the Waldorf in Aldwych, saw a show, did the tourist thing, and paid a mortgage to eat at a posh restaurant.
    The thing that struck me was that pretty much all of the hotel staff, bar staff, ticket sellers, shop workers, market stall holders, buskers and street performers and theatre staff were all speaking in foreign accents. It was quite an eyeopener to see just how mulicultural London was, and I say that as someone who works in Leicester!

    I've just had a new kitchen put in.one guy who did a bit of templating)

    I've no complaints at all. It's all been nicely efficient. The Romanian (I think) fitter was particularly charming, and fast becoming a Londoner ("yeah mate, lovely job" - in a Bucharest accent). But it was quite enlightening as to just how multiracial London has become.
    Yes, the eliding of identity is interesting. I bought some shoes from a little shop on the Holloway Road last week, and the nice assistant (owner?) had a noticeable accent - possibly Italian. As he packed up the purchase I asked idly where he was born. He looked a bit surprised and said politely "I was born in Fulham". I was in "be pleasant to foreigners" mode, he was in "I wonder why he cares which borough I was born in?" mode: it didn't occur to him that I might think he was foreign-born. But it hadn't meant he'd adopted classic British (in any variety) pronunciation. Is this an example of 2nd generation integration, or of British identity eroding?

    In general people round here are so mixed that you just give up thinking "I wonder if he's Arab or Greek or Somali" because the answer is probably a bit of various places. I like it, but I can see how someone used to a more monoglot tradition would find it disturbing (that isn't meant as a criticism).

    It's nice hearing other languages. And it is interesting learning about other people's life stories and how they or their families ended up in Britain. What I find disturbing is seeing the local Council spending time/money providing information in a variety of languages, mainly non-European ones. If people come here they can bloody well learn English - even if they speak it with an accent.

    Integration has to be a "must" and it starts with language. The option of permanent residents living here physically but behaving in all other respects as if they were still in their home country/country of parents is a no-no, IMO. That way lie ghettos and unintegrated and sometimes hostile communities which can be a breeding ground for all sorts of nastinesses.
    English is the best language in the world!

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Plato said:

    Where do you go shopping for candidates like this?! :open_mouth:

    UKIP suspends candidate from Bedwas Trethomas and Machen by-election for posting on Facebook that immigrants should be gassed.

    He also labelled Muslim men paedophiles after claiming marrying children is sanctioned by Islam.

    Mr Douglas is standing in the by-election that takes place on September 3, next week, but UKIP have withdrawn their backing after investigating the offensive and Islamophobic remarks, which were uncovered by Caerphilly Observer.

    Posting on Facebook last year, Mr Douglas said of immigrants: “Gas the b******s if they don’t go. If it’s good enough for badgers it’s good enough for scum.”

    Caerphilly Observer 26th August 2015

    http://www.caerphillyobserver.co.uk/news/953194/ukip-suspends-candidate-from-bedwas-trethomas-and-machen-by-election-for-posting-on-facebook-that-immigrants-should-be-gassed/

    Berchtesgaden.

  • Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).

  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    Indigo said:

    You continually trying to conflate the two, EEA membership is a right to movement of workers, not people, no job, no entry. It also conveys no right to claim benefit, and does not suborn our right to chuck out any criminals or other malcontent we wish to.

    Also if you are an non-EU member, and you obtain an National ID care in any other member state, we are required to admit them as members of the EU.

    I continually repeat the point because it is true that there is very little practical difference between EEA and EU membership as regards immigration. There are a few minor differences - benefits is one, but that's likely to be dealt with anyway as part of the renegotiation. When it is, the usual suspects will dismiss it as a very minor point in terms of the effect on numbers, and for once they will be right. Nearly all EU immigrants come here to work. They'll continue to come here, in almost indistinguishable numbers, if we leave the EU and join the EEA or a similar arrangement.

    On the second point, it is EU (or EEA) citizenship which grants the right. The numbers of people who are immigrants into other EU countries, gain nationality of another EU country, and then come here, are tiny anyway. It's a red herring, it simply isn't where the problem lies.
    You are correct.
    Is Cameron planning to renegotiate providing healthcare treatment to EU migrants, free of charge, as with the EEA? I imagine having to cough up a few thousand a year would put off some lower wage migrants.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Easy meat for Corbyn?

    "Expenses scandal MP given peerage - live

    Douglas Hogg, the former Tory MP who claimed for cleaning out his moat on expenses, among former special advisers and Tory donors to be given peerages and honours"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11828053/13.50.html

    The irony being of course that he already has a peerage. So he's twice as noble as everyone else. I'm surprised his moat doesn't burst with pride...
    Hogg did not claim for cleaning a moat.
    http://news.sky.com/story/692644/full-statement-i-did-not-claim-for-my-moat
    If you think his statement is wrong then post again and accuse him of lying.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341
    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    And yet the Corbyinistas think that it is the US which is the biggest threat......



  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).

    Short of having quotas of social housing per borough for immigrants, the only way is to severely limit immigration.

    Boring, but true I am afraid. If immigrants were evenly spread across the country, they would assimilate far more easily and the problem would be immensely reduced. But that is never never land. Human nature dictates mass immigration=ghettos=trouble
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    Looks like he wasn't Caerphilly selected enough :)

    *applause* :smiley:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,824

    ydoethur said:

    isam said:

    Easy meat for Corbyn?

    "Expenses scandal MP given peerage - live

    Douglas Hogg, the former Tory MP who claimed for cleaning out his moat on expenses, among former special advisers and Tory donors to be given peerages and honours"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11828053/13.50.html

    The irony being of course that he already has a peerage. So he's twice as noble as everyone else. I'm surprised his moat doesn't burst with pride...
    Hogg did not claim for cleaning a moat.
    http://news.sky.com/story/692644/full-statement-i-did-not-claim-for-my-moat
    If you think his statement is wrong then post again and accuse him of lying.
    It was the Telegraph that made the claim. The idea of comment regarding his moat was a pun on 'burst with pride', 'burst banks'. OK, not a very good one, but not bad on the spur of the moment.

    If Lord Hailsham wishes to accuse the Telegraph of lying, which they must have been doing all the way through this process if you and he are correct, it is open to him to sue them for libel. Yet, strangely, he has yet to do so.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    And yet the Corbyinistas think that it is the US which is the biggest threat......



    "The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source"

    That is the scariest line yet IMO
  • FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    FTSE closes at 6192, Brent Crude at $46.07!
  • isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    Can you be a fourth generation immigrant in France? Until Algeria became independent it was an integral part of France, so if you came from there to the mainland you were not emigrating you were just moving to another part of the country; and that's the same with other overseas French territories isn't it?

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).

    BTL creates Ghettos? Best one yet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,824
    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    And yet the Corbyinistas think that it is the US which is the biggest threat......



    "The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source"

    That is the scariest line yet IMO
    In light of these posts, is this about immigration, or a rather strange and belated response to the Boston Tea Party?
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015
    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    And yet the Corbyinistas think that it is the US which is the biggest threat......



    "The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source"

    That is the scariest line yet IMO
    Armies make contingency plans for many eventualities. It's what they do. Most, fortunately, are never enacted.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Andy Murray to play Nick Kyrgios in the first round of the US Open.

    The mouthy Oz should recall that Kim Murray can give the verbals too. :smile:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/tennis/34076501

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    Can you be a fourth generation immigrant in France? Until Algeria became independent it was an integral part of France, so if you came from there to the mainland you were not emigrating you were just moving to another part of the country; and that's the same with other overseas French territories isn't it?

    You'd be best taking that up with the author of the article.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).
    Look at the history of the Jews - started off in the poverty of the East End, and as they prospered migrated to the 'ghettos' of St Johns Wood and Golders Green.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    watford30 said:

    Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).

    BTL creates Ghettos? Best one yet.
    "The Road to National Suicide" - Enoch Powell speech, 1976... explains why mass immigration can only lead to ghettoization and ghettoization can only lead to civil strife.
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    Danish lawmakers on Wednesday approved cutting welfare benefits for new asylum seekers in a bid to curtail arrivals.

    Integration Minister Inger Stojberg of the ruling minority centre-right liberal party Venstre said it was a first step "to bringing asylum policies back on track", news agency Ritzau reported.

    The third and final reading of the bill was passed by a 56 to 50 vote, while 73 lawmakers were absent.

    "You can have different political views about the government's solutions, but you can't ignore the challenges," she added. "We have to stop the massive flow of asylum seekers to Denmark."

    http://www.news24.com/World/News/Denmark-cuts-benefits-for-asylum-seekers-20150826
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The earthier the rebuttal, the truer the claim?

    Nicola Sturgeon has described claims that the threat of the SNP helped the Conservatives win a majority in May’s general election as “bollocks”,

    https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/nicola-sturgeon-says-claim-snp-cost-labour-election-bollocks
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341
    watford30 said:

    isam said:

    Cyclefree said:

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    And yet the Corbyinistas think that it is the US which is the biggest threat......



    "The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source"

    That is the scariest line yet IMO
    Armies make contingency plans for many eventualities. It's what they do. Most, fortunately, are never enacted.
    I suggest you read Andrew Hussey's book "The French Intifada" - this is not just a contingency. There is a very real issue within the French banlieues with communities of North African descent who do not consider themselves French in any way, regardless of what their passport says.

  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    Can you be a fourth generation immigrant in France? Until Algeria became independent it was an integral part of France, so if you came from there to the mainland you were not emigrating you were just moving to another part of the country; and that's the same with other overseas French territories isn't it?

    Algeria was an integral part of France, but Tunisia and Morocco were not.
  • watford30 said:

    Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).

    BTL creates Ghettos? Best one yet.

    What we have seen happen is that council tenants buy their properties at subsidised rates then sell them on at full market rates. often to buy to let landlords, who then rent out the properties to immigrants. That is one of the treasons why private landlords are now going to be required to check on the immigration status of their tenants.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341

    isam said:

    Mass Immigration leading to what can only be described as Civil War

    “French security forces are bracing for the eventuality of civil unrest and fear there could be a missile strike on a passenger airliner or a September 11-style attack, according to sources close to French intelligence. There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    The army has made contingency plans for the “reappropriation of national territory”, meaning to win back control of neighbourhoods where the population become hostile to the security forces and where guns are easily obtainable, according to the source

    “There are a lot of alienated and angry fourth-generation immigrant kids in the suburbs and the prospect of radicalisation is increasingly likely,” the source said.

    “The idea that attacks like the one on the train are carried out by individuals acting on their own is not credible. We’re dealing with highly-organised networks of militant Islamists embarked on a campaign of violence and determined to intensify it.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11826862/Airlines-told-to-expect-French-911-as-Hollande-warns-of-more-Islamist-violence.html

    Can you be a fourth generation immigrant in France? Until Algeria became independent it was an integral part of France, so if you came from there to the mainland you were not emigrating you were just moving to another part of the country; and that's the same with other overseas French territories isn't it?

    Most of the immigrants came after Algeria got its independence and so were immigrants and not just pieds noirs moving to another part of France. I agree that after 4 generations they should not be considered immigrants but if you read what Andrew Hussey has written on this, it is clear that many of these youths hate France and do not consider themselves French. That is now a big problem for France - and for the rest of us.



  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    I see more than 90% of the new Lords appointees were MPs, MEPs, councillors or political staff. Isn't it great to have an upper house where we can bring in expertise from outside the political bubble?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. JEO, there'd be fewer such fellows were the hereditaries maintained instead of reduced drastically by the reforming incompetent Blair.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,964
    watford30 said:

    Financier said:

    How do we prevent immigrants creating ghettos?

    Recent immigrants go where it is cheapest to go and that usually means places that are already rundown and deprived. So, urban regeneration is one way, not selling off social and council housing might be another (no buy to let opportunities).

    BTL creates Ghettos? Best one yet.
    The same can be said of Councils themselves.

    I don;t thnik that is the nub of the question.
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    This made me laugh http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2015/08/almost-none-of-the-women-in-the-ashley-madison-database-ever-used-the-site/
    What I discovered was that the world of Ashley Madison was a far more dystopian place than anyone had realised. This isn’t a debauched wonderland of men cheating on their wives. It isn’t even a sadscape of 31 million men competing to attract those 5.5 million women in the database. Instead, it’s like a science fictional future where every woman on Earth is dead, and some Dilbert-like engineer has replaced them with badly designed robots...

    ...Then, three data fields changed everything. The first field, called mail_last_time, contained a timestamp indicating the last time a member checked the messages in their Ashley Madison inbox. If a person never checked their inbox, the field was blank. But even if they’d checked their messages only once, the field contained a date and time. About two-thirds of the men, or 20.2 million of them, had checked the messages in their accounts at least once. But only 1,492 women had ever checked their messages. It was a serious anomaly.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341
    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........

  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........


    No madam, that isn't a banana...

  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    edited August 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........

    It's going to take a bit more time in the gym before my abs are in good enough shape for that.

    I'm not #peachbodyready
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........


    No madam, that isn't a banana...

    Courgette.....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Miss Cyclefree, I recall some sort of historical 'reality' programme where naked ladies served as platters at a banquet.

    [I'll probably work that into a story at some point].

    In line with Corbynist practice, I've consulted with all men and we've agreed only women should be used as banquet platters.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,964
    edited August 2015
    Financier said:
    Really unable to see how this is different in any principle from either a Spearmint Rhino, legalised prostition of either sex, or a male stripper at a hen party.

    Or, for that matters, models of either gender displaying clothes in a catalogue, or body paint or bathing suits on a beach.

    Or - pushing the comparison a little further - Chris Hoy or Tessa Sanderson advertising sports equipment.

    It is a professional arrangement between consenting parties.
  • MyBurningEarsMyBurningEars Posts: 3,651

    Depends whether you take a descriptive or prescriptive approach. I wouldn't write off the chances of "different to" becoming considered correct formal English. Sadly I do not see "different against" making a resurgence, though I find that form rather more expressive.

    http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2014/01/different-from-than-to/

    I was reading the PB archives and saw one of PB's social historians making a comment along the lines of "for most people the 1960s looked like the our vision of the 1950s people, and for most people the 1970s looked like our image of the 1960s". Can't remember who it was, though, was it you? I meant to point them in the direction of the Varian Rule in economics, which would support their argument:

    The Varian Rule holds that "A simple way to forecast the future is to look at what rich people have today; middle-income people will have something equivalent in 10 years, and poor people will have it in an additional decade." It is attributed to Google’s chief economist Hal Varian. The origin of the term is credited to Andrew McAfee of the Financial Times.

    Some notable examples include anti-lock braking systems, electronic stability control systems and airbags which first appeared on high-end luxury vehicles before becoming commoditized on more mainstream automobiles.


    ydoethur said:

    My inner grammar Nazi is currently climbing the wall foaming at the mouth.

    It's 'different FROM', people. 'Different FROM'. Not, 'different to'.

    Merely because a bunch of barely literate journalists who in my school would not be permitted to sit English A-level are incapable of formulating a sentence correctly is no reason to let standards slip on PB.

    We iz all caperbull of speking the Kween's Inglish on yurr, izn't uz?

    That was me. I believe I have posted this idea twice in the last 5 years or so. If I don't attain instant acknowledgement and long lasting recognition from now on I shall resort to multiple daily posts which end with me calling everyone else turnips and cretins. That seems to work.
    It was an interesting post :)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. W, quite. It's puritanical nonsense.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,341

    Miss Cyclefree, I recall some sort of historical 'reality' programme where naked ladies served as platters at a banquet.

    [I'll probably work that into a story at some point].

    In line with Corbynist practice, I've consulted with all men and we've agreed only women should be used as banquet platters.

    Good luck with getting female PB'ers to agree.....!

  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited August 2015

    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........


    No madam, that isn't a banana...

    Courgette.....
    An extremely small root vegetable if MalcolmG volunteers to be the dining table.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........


    No madam, that isn't a banana...

    It's a cucumber...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Miss Cyclefree, in line with Corbynite doctrine on female-only trains, the consultation only requires approval of the one gender :p

    In seriousness, whilst I'd never try and stop such a thing (and would oppose those who did), I'm not sure it's something I'd like to partake in, from either angle.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It would make @wewantplates take on a whole new meaning.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    MattW said:

    YUK. YUK YUK (sushi I mean , raw fish is vile and the smell equally so.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,515
    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........

    Me!

    Although the food might get a little hair in it...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Antifrank, I glanced at that Twitter feed a little while ago. It seems utterly crackers.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Meanwhile, Lord Mandelson has resurfaced in the FT. I think we can take it he's not happy:

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/bc778688-4cb6-11e5-b558-8a9722977189.html#axzz3k1X9Z03Z

    "It would be a sad and possibly final chapter in the British Labour party’s history. If the leadership election that closes in two weeks’ time is won by Jeremy Corbyn, the current favourite, his policies — printing money, state ownership of major industries, unilateral disarmament and quitting Nato — will make the party unelectable."

    "Thirty years ago almost to the day, when I was appointed Labour’s campaign director, the party confronted very similar challenges to those of today following colossal electoral defeat — “moderates” in disarray, the soft left not knowing which way to turn, sensible policy thinking dried up. There were those who said Labour would never form another government.

    Under a new leader, Neil Kinnock, we fought back, aided by some stalwart trade unions and the bulk of Labour MPs. Today, we may not have quite that leader or those same stabilisers. But that is all the more reason why those who believe in Labour as a party of government, not protest, have to put past differences behind them, come together and redouble their efforts to turn round Labour’s fortunes. Our party is in mortal danger — we need to save it again."

  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    RodCrosby said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........


    No madam, that isn't a banana...

    It's a cucumber...
    There used to be a lot of jokes on the theme "Cucumbers are better than Men".
    In the office one day, one of the more forthright ladies said that this concept was rubbish because "You can't nag a cucumber".
  • JEOJEO Posts: 3,656
    I see commentators as diverse as Iain Dale, Tim Montgomerie, and Lord Ashcroft are complaining about UKIP not getting any Lords. It really is out of order.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Antifrank, I glanced at that Twitter feed a little while ago. It seems utterly crackers.

    I live in Shoreditch. What's shocking is just how mundane that account seems to me.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited August 2015
    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........

    Does Mike Smithson have to oblige yet again ?!? .... :smiley:

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,977
    Mr. Antifrank, one hopes that sort of nonsense wouldn't be tolerated in Yorkshire. I fear there may be one or two examples, but I hope it isn't widespread.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........


    No madam, that isn't a banana...

    Courgette.....
    An extremely small root vegetable if MalcolmG volunteers to be the dining table.
    Turnip. :smile:

  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited August 2015

    MattW said:

    Also in London btw.

    YUK. YUK YUK (sushi I mean , raw fish is vile and the smell equally so.
    Customers were originally offered either sushi, or cottage pie and spotted dick with custard.

    The ‘platters’ sensibly opted for the cooler of the two dishes.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MalcolmG, your glorious leader has a message for you...

    @davidtorrance: .@NicolaSturgeon says those who indulge in online abuse are sitting in their bedrooms & have "probably got nae pals" #edtvfest
  • Cyclefree said:

    Financier said:
    Given that there are more male than female PB'ers, I think one of the gentlemen should volunteer to have his naked body draped in fruit..........

    Me!

    Although the food might get a little hair in it...
    Sorry to lower the tone, but I'm willing to bet I'm hairier than you :p
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,964
    Scott_P said:

    MalcolmG, your glorious leader has a message for you...

    @davidtorrance: .@NicolaSturgeon says those who indulge in online abuse are sitting in their bedrooms & have "probably got nae pals" #edtvfest

    Well, I am sure she can easily find out who some of them are.

    I'm sure she'll have a list of candidates somewhere.

    Not turnips. Purple podded peas.
Sign In or Register to comment.