politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Keiran Pedley looks at whether Cameron could fight the 2020
Comments
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Cameron can't lose - he either increases his majority against the imploding Labour party or drives off into the sunset having imploded the Labour party and whipped the Nats in the referendum putting the issue to bed until 2035.
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@krishgm: On #c4news tonight : we'll be joined by @jeremycorbyn and @LizforLeader as Labour reaches crunch point0
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Getting to vote for Diane Abbott for Shadow Chancellor would surely be a wish too far.flightpath01 said:
He would first co-opt all the £3 members to be full time. Can Labour afford all the votes that Corbyn wants?TheWhiteRabbit said:
I believe Corbyn has mooted a return to PLP elections to ShadCab.Plato said:Elected by Labour's members?
Scott_P said:
He wants to change thatoxfordsimon said:as long as he can form a Shadow Cabinet (which, of course, is no longer elected)
Edit: Link http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/08/coups-splits-or-surprising-calm-what-jeremy-corbyn-era-would-look-labour0 -
Corbyn addresses new shadow cabinet
http://s2.postimg.org/ogdh6k789/corbyn_page_001_3.jpg0 -
John Kerry about to commence flag-raising ceremony at US Embassy, Havana.
The 3 Marines who took it down in 1961 are still around, and are guests of honour...0 -
Shows how out of touch Goldsmith is with most of the country. He could still be in touch with opinion in London of course, since the capital is so out of line with the rest of the country these days.RodCrosby said:http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/08/14/tory-mayor-wannabe-warns-of-jeremy-corbyn-capturing-the-zeitgeist/
'Tory MP Zac Goldsmith, frontrunner in the group seeking the Conservative London mayoral nomination, has warned the “glee” of his party colleagues at the prospect of Jeremy Corbyn becoming Labour Party leader is “totally misplaced”. He said Corbyn could somehow capture the “zeitgeist” and ride the wave of support that confounded his critics, leading Britain into “very dangerous terrain”.'0 -
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Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
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He has it easy right now because he's in a honeymoon period and he's vanquished all his enemies. Labour have formed a circular firing squad, UKIP have become a farce and the Liberal Democrats obliterated. He's also starting to get the measure of the SNP. Whereas once he was once the Tory PM who never really 'won' - a bit of a loser - now he's master of all he surveys. His place in history has totally changed.SeanT said:
He didn't enjoy being PM in a Coalition. He looks a lot happier now, and with good reason.Casino_Royale said:Cameron is no Margaret Thatcher. After 15 years as Tory leader and 10 years as PM, he will move on.
He himself has said he doesn't enjoy the job, but it's a huge privilege and honour.
Wouldn't you be happy with that?
But he is still in coalition, this time with his own party, and it won't last forever. He's normal enough to care about other things as well as politics, and probably cares more for his family and friends anyway, and young enough to do something else.
He'll go out on a high.0 -
I think this is another misreading of the situation, even worse than the one DH fesses up to. The unions are absolutely manipulating the present situation. They've read the situation early and are keeping their heads down just like the Tories; the unions (with Len calling the shots) because it is central to their strategy and the Tories 'cos to do otherwise would be foolish. As I see it, union strategy is to control an established political party (even a much reduced one) and take it from there. Even if that's what they stick at then that's much much better than what they've got at present. They can see that England at least is largely unsympathetic to the (largely public sector populated) unions so union controlled government is not on the agenda.Plato said:0 -
Re political levy - just spotted this in the Hodges piece
Nor will it end there. The Conservatives – ever with an eye for the main chance – have borrowed the principle of Labour’s rule change and inserted it into the new Trade Union Bill. Any trade unionist who wants their money to be paid into the their union’s political levy – which is then used to finance the Labour Party – will have to proactively sign a form to that effect every five years. And it’s now possible to judge how many trade union members will bother to sign up in this way. Around 180,000. That compares with 4.5 million members who pay the levy now. Labour is about to lose 95 per cent of the income it receives from the unions. At precisely the same time it is about to elect Jeremy Corbyn as its leader. I don’t know how much Jeremy Corbyn is planning to secure for Labour in major corporate donations. But I can hazard a guess.
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What if the Tories come up with popular legislation though which some Labour MPs would support? e.g. a bill taking action on the migrant crisis. Osborne will no doubt be looking for ways to make sure the media is talking about Labour splits.Danny565 said:I don't understand this stuff about "how will Corbyn control his MPs?" That might be relevant if Labour were in government, and moderates were being asked to vote on very left-wing bills, but in Opposition it's a binary choice between accepting right-wing Tory legislation or not, which moderates won't have a problem with.
(And in any case, the grassroots will have something to say if rebel Labour MPs start making the difference between govt wins and defeats in Parliament.)0 -
YouGov's London (all voters) poll now up (apols if already linked):
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/umiuxdpotn/Results-for-EveningStandard-London-LabourLeader-150812.pdf
The question is "Which would be the best leader?" Tory voters say basically meh, everyone else prefers Corbyn or doesn't have a view.0 -
Calum S @CalumSPlath Aug 13
"It is a long overdue reform & something I wish I could have done myself": Tony Blair, Feb 2014, on Labour leadership election reform
Chortle...0 -
JC just copying the Ed stone - what a 10 point pile of manure.
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There are some good ideas there, like building enough houses to accommodate a rapidly rising population, and more renewable energy.RodCrosby said:
Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.0 -
"Fair taxes for all." !0
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Or more recently,slade said:
Three letters. P. P. E.MyBurningEars said:FPT Parodies of the Red Flag. There have been "pink flag" parodies since the 1930s, apparently.
I quite like:
The people's flag is palest pink
It's not the colour you might think
White collar workers stand and cheer
The Labour government is here
We'll change the country bit by bit
So nobody will notice it
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year
The cloth cap and the woolen scarf
Are images outdated
For we're the party's avant garde
And we are educated
So raise the rolled umbrella high
The college scarf, the old school tie
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year
Followed by an Oxon.
I also quite like various historic versions,
The workers' flag is palest pink
Since Gaitskell dipped it in the sink
Now Harold's done the same as Hugh
The workers' flag is brightest blue.
The latter could by the Corbynista anthem.
New Labour's flag is palest pink
It's not as red as you might think
And Tony's added shades of blue
He does not care for me and you
There's a pretty well-known American parody called "The Foreman's Job" which I've always thought was quite funny, but also goes a long way to explaining why Americans don't "do" socialism, or at least not by that word. No idea where I first heard it but it must have been around for a while.
(There is also an alternative version I'd not heard of before, replacing "the system.." line with "The working class can kiss my ass "You can tell old Joe I'm off the dole, He can stick the Red Flag up his 'ole" - but presumably that's an older - 40s? 50s? - version.)
The working class can kiss my ass
I've got the foreman's job at last
The system I'll no more resist
I'm going to be a capitalist
Now you can raise the standard high
Beneath its shade to fight and die
But brother, please don't count on me
I've up and joined the bourgeoisie
There is also this version, courtesy of The Liberator Songbook, sometimes sung at the Lib Dem Glee Club:
The people's flag is slightly pink
It's not as red as most folk think
We must not let the people know
What socialists thought long ago.
Chorus:
Don't let the scarlet banner float
We want the middle classes vote
Let our old-fashioned comrades sneer
We'll stay in power for many a year.
The people’s flag is brightest white
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.0 -
To paraphrase "Labour is the best democracy money can buy"0
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"A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance."
aka come on in and help yourselves...
A deluded old relic of the 80s - watching him drown as leader will be delicious entertainment.0 -
The Labour election process of votes for members is indeed sensible. Its been enacted quite irrationally however. There was no normal way that a fruit loop boneheaded pratt like Corbyn should have even been in a position to get nominated and if Labour want to let in entryists to pervert their party then thats up to them.Danny565 said:Calum S @CalumSPlath Aug 13
"It is a long overdue reform & something I wish I could have done myself": Tony Blair, Feb 2014, on Labour leadership election reform
Chortle...
Oh and the AV system is perverse as well. The tories have the best process to achieve a plurality and also someone with support of MPs - it is the MPs whose job is to govern after all.0 -
Bravo!david_herdson said:
The people’s flag is brightest white
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.0 -
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"I'm going slightly mad"SeanT said:
All very fair. But you presume he will stay sane. In the end they mostly go mad. Thatcher, Blair, Brown - all went postal by the end of their tenure (Brown was mad before he even moved in to Number 10). The madness gives them a messiah complex, and they cling on, believing only they are fit to rule the country. Cf Churchill, de Gaulle, and many others abroad.Casino_Royale said:
He has it easy right now because he's in a honeymoon period and he's vanquished all his enemies. Labour have formed a circular firing squad, UKIP have become a farce and the Liberal Democrats obliterated. He's also starting to get the measure of the SNP. Whereas once he was once the Tory PM who never really 'won' - a bit of a loser - now he's master of all he surveys. His place in history has totally changed.SeanT said:
He didn't enjoy being PM in a Coalition. He looks a lot happier now, and with good reason.Casino_Royale said:Cameron is no Margaret Thatcher. After 15 years as Tory leader and 10 years as PM, he will move on.
He himself has said he doesn't enjoy the job, but it's a huge privilege and honour.
Wouldn't you be happy with that?
But he is still in coalition, this time with his own party, and it won't last forever. He's normal enough to care about other things as well as politics, and probably cares more for his family and friends anyway, and young enough to do something else.
He'll go out on a high.
Is Cameron uniquely insulated from the craziness that infects so many PMs? Hmm..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od6hY_50Dh00 -
For those who say "UKIP don't get much support in places with high immigration levels..."
"Are White British Londoners more accepting of immigration than White British elsewhere? The British Election Study (BES)’s 2015 panel survey asks whether immigration enriches or undermines cultural life. 34.7 per cent of White British outside London say immigration strongly undermines cultural life. But so do 34.4 per cent of White British Londoners. Not much difference there. 44 per cent of White Brits outside London want to leave the EU, but so do 42.3 per cent of White British Londoners. Again, not much in it.
This would suggest that when we adjust for ethnic composition, UKIP support in London isn’t very different. This is clear in figure 1, which shows the city as pretty average among the regions, similar to the South West when we normalise for White British population. Its South East suburban hinterland even begins to look distinctly pro-UKIP. A small share of non-White British support the party, which might inflate London’s figure a touch, but this doesn’t alter the basic pattern."
http://quarterly.demos.co.uk/article/issue-5/ukip-in-london/
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This Labour nonsense just keeps on getting better... I need bulk deliveries of popcorn..
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A good measure of the inanity of a political slogan is how meaningful it is if reversed, such as "equality for some but not others".SeanT said:
Mixture of EdStone banality and Ministry of Truth mendacity.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
Think "Equality for all" is my favourite, being simultaneously stupid, vacuous, eerie, and menacing.0 -
That made me think of Stand And Deliver - a super song. And about the same era as Comrade Corbyn's last new thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2a6l6wM2kRodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.0 -
RodCrosby said:
Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
AKA "A future fair for all" - how did that work out?
Going through the list, the results would be: tax up, nationalisation failures, energy prices up, inflation increasing, destruction of private rental (and corresponding reduction in housing), even higher house prices and immigration, a failing NHS with rule-ticking and inability to fall back on private sector, less job flexibility, and a ridiculous unfunded commitment to everything else.
Someone tell Corbyn that there's an opening in Cuba, because the majority won't want that disaster for us.
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Naught but Tory Propaganda!david_herdson said:
The people’s flag is brightest white
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.0 -
In fairness to T. Blair (not something I ever thought I'd write but hey) - it was a good and overdue reform - it just suffered from the problem of Labour MP's being even more terminally dim-witted than anyone could possibly have foreseen. The whole point of the high nominations threshold was to give the Parliamentary Labour Party a 'Veto' on the 'unelectable'.Danny565 said:Calum S @CalumSPlath Aug 13
"It is a long overdue reform & something I wish I could have done myself": Tony Blair, Feb 2014, on Labour leadership election reform
Chortle...0 -
They were on safer ground with Owls For All....SeanT said:
Mixture of EdStone banality and Ministry of Truth mendacity.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
Think "Equality for all" is my favourite, being simultaneously stupid, vacuous, eerie, and menacing.0 -
@Lennon - Thanks for the link. You are right, it is a very thoughtful and thought-provoking piece.Lennon said:For those that missed it at the time (such as myself) - this is a very thoughtful piece on the issues that Labour has around immigration. http://elxn-data.blogspot.fr/2015/08/labour-and-immigration.html
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Three letters. P. P. E.MyBurningEars said:FPT Parodies of the Red Flag. There have been "pink flag" parodies since the 1930s, apparently.
I quite like:
The people's flag is palest pink
It's not the colour you might think
White collar workers stand and cheer
The Labour government is here
We'll change the country bit by bit
So nobody will notice it
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year
The cloth cap and the woolen scarf
Are images outdated
For we're the party's avant garde
And we are educated
So raise the rolled umbrella high
The college scarf, the old school tie
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year
Followed by an Oxon.
The modern Labour party to a T.0 -
@FD: Explaining Jeremy Corbyn to Americans http://t.co/TVwhfPNckJ0
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Has your ballot paper arrived yet, comrade ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Naught but Tory Propaganda!david_herdson said:
The people’s flag is brightest white
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.0 -
David, this post and the one by Slade before were excellent. Top stuff. If anyone can tell me about the history of the "Foreman's Job" song in the USA, I'd be most interested.david_herdson said:
The people’s flag is brightest whiteslade said:
There is also this version, courtesy of The Liberator Songbook, sometimes sung at the Lib Dem Glee Club:MyBurningEars said:FPT Parodies of the Red Flag. There have been "pink flag" parodies since the 1930s, apparently.
...
The people's flag is slightly pink
It's not as red as most folk think
We must not let the people know
What socialists thought long ago.
Chorus:
Don't let the scarlet banner float
We want the middle classes vote
Let our old-fashioned comrades sneer
We'll stay in power for many a year.
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.
(Congrats to the White Rabbit btw. But I hope we see you chez nighthawks.)0 -
Americans call Obama a socialist... not sure what they call Corbyn...Scott_P said:@FD: Explaining Jeremy Corbyn to Americans http://t.co/TVwhfPNckJ
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Very apt. I'm probably mistaken but I thought I spotted JC amongst the extras. If so he seems to have saved the outfit he was given!Plato said:That made me think of Stand And Deliver - a super song. And about the same era as Comrade Corbyn's last new thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2a6l6wM2kRodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
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Corbyns both a vegetarian and teetotal...
So was Hilter.. just sayin.0 -
Not yet - has yours?Pulpstar said:
Has your ballot paper arrived yet, comrade ?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Naught but Tory Propaganda!david_herdson said:
The people’s flag is brightest white
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.
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This is pretty special
@WikiGuido: Cooper-supporting Lab MP mocks Corbyn and bans his brother from voting for him. Who did that MP nominate? Corbyn. http://t.co/tDZKWN8fs70 -
Too many Tweets make a Too-wit-too-woo?MarqueeMark said:
They were on safer ground with Owls For All....SeanT said:
Mixture of EdStone banality and Ministry of Truth mendacity.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
Think "Equality for all" is my favourite, being simultaneously stupid, vacuous, eerie, and menacing.0 -
Godwin's Law!Slackbladder said:Corbyns both a vegetarian and teetotal...
So was Hilter.. just sayin.0 -
PB understands the Conservatives very well but sometimes doesn't try to understand Labour people
If everyone is telling you that your beliefs lose elections, and that only abandoning your beliefs can win an election, what are your options?
First, you may not believe that claim if you have spent only five years in opposition
Second, you may accept the claim and bring it to its logical conclusion that only a party substantially similar to the Conservatives can win elections; this means Labour should be replaced by a different party that won't welcome the archetypical Labour activist and that will win elections, so there is no point caring about the electability of the actually existing Labour party. But it is a funny way of thinking because the claim really isn't true in the medium-term; views change and you may benefit
So third, you could wait it out until the people want to overthrow the government, win on a change wave and then foist your policies on the people. This is the predominant strategy of every leading opposition party in the world but contains the internal contradiction of policy unpopularity that leads to its own downfall
Fourth, abandon the beliefs and congratulate yourself on hating the people in government more or less independently of your policy change desires. There is always a bit of 4 whether in government or opposition but I'm talking about the very personal stuff that replaces the pursuit of policies as a reason to support a government; basically a version of 3 that is not necessarily about incumbency.
The Conservatives under Cameron did 3 but more 4. The policy content of Cameroonism was weak, but it is very important to its supporters that Labour are associated with bad people and Conservatives are associated with good (dare I say "virtuous") people.
Labour are now doing a mix of 1 and 2. Blair went full 4. The SDP were 2.
If Labour want to win an election they probably need to hate the Conservatives more. They spent 5 years mainly hating the Lib Dems and Ukip which didn't win them many seats. They look likely to spend 5 years doing 2.0 -
I guess we should all be grateful he and his coterie have limited themselves to 10 points. Heaven only knows what a number 13 might look like.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
In terms of other numbers there is one that everyone is forgetting. 66. Who is the mad screaming leftie who is going to keep the Stormyn Corbyn wagyn rollin' ??0 -
So was Gandhi... just sayin'Slackbladder said:Corbyns both a vegetarian and teetotal...
So was Hilter.. just sayin.
So too is Sunil... just sayin' even more
0 -
Well, Adolf was a National socalist!Carolus_Rex said:
Godwin's Law!Slackbladder said:Corbyns both a vegetarian and teetotal...
So was Hilter.. just sayin.
0 -
Isn't that the SNP?!Slackbladder said:
Well, Adolf was a National socalist!Carolus_Rex said:
Godwin's Law!Slackbladder said:Corbyns both a vegetarian and teetotal...
So was Hilter.. just sayin.0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Mr. JS, I must agree. Corbyn's love of immigration and Russia (and Hamas/Hezbollah) might go down well in London, but I can't see it being popular in what should be Con-Lab marginals.0 -
Mr Dancer! Yet more Tory Propaganda, I seeMorris_Dancer said:Good afternoon, everyone.
Mr. JS, I must agree. Corbyn's love of immigration and Russia (and Hamas/Hezbollah) might go down well in London, but I can't see it being popular in what should be Con-Lab marginals. 0 -
You Will Be Assimilated.SeanT said:
Mixture of EdStone banality and Ministry of Truth mendacity.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
Think "Equality for all" is my favourite, being simultaneously stupid, vacuous, eerie, and menacing.0 -
What about the owls? I'm not letting them brush that one under the carpet.flightpath01 said:
I guess we should all be grateful he and his coterie have limited themselves to 10 points. Heaven only knows what a number 13 might look like.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
In terms of other numbers there is one that everyone is forgetting. 66. Who is the mad screaming leftie who is going to keep the Stormyn Corbyn wagyn rollin' ??0 -
*claps*
The latter could by the Corbynista anthem.david_herdson said:
Or more recently,slade said:
Three letters. P. P. E.MyBurningEars said:FPT Parodies of the Red Flag. There have been "pink flag" parodies since the 1930s, apparently.
I quite like:
The people's flag is palest pink
It's not the colour you might think
White collar workers stand and cheer
The Labour government is here
We'll change the country bit by bit
So nobody will notice it
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year
The cloth cap and the woolen scarf
Are images outdated
For we're the party's avant garde
And we are educated
So raise the rolled umbrella high
The college scarf, the old school tie
And just to show that we're sincere
We'll sing The Red Flag once a year
Followed by an Oxon.
I also quite like various historic versions,
The workers' flag is palest pink
Since Gaitskell dipped it in the sink
Now Harold's done the same as Hugh
The workers' flag is brightest blue.
New Labour's flag is palest pink
It's not as red as you might think
And Tony's added shades of blue
He does not care for me and you
There's a pretty well-known American parody called "The Foreman's Job" which I've always thought was quite funny, but also goes a long way to explaining why Americans don't "do" socialism, or at least not by that word. No idea where I first heard it but it must have been around for a while.
(There is also an alternative version I'd not heard of before, replacing "the system.." line with "The working class can kiss my ass "You can tell old Joe I'm off the dole, He can stick the Red Flag up his 'ole" - but presumably that's an older - 40s? 50s? - version.)
snip
There is also this version, courtesy of The Liberator Songbook, sometimes sung at the Lib Dem Glee Club:
The people's flag is slightly pink
It's not as red as most folk think
We must not let the people know
What socialists thought long ago.
Chorus:
Don't let the scarlet banner float
We want the middle classes vote
Let our old-fashioned comrades sneer
We'll stay in power for many a year.
The people’s flag is brightest white
It leads the way through day and night
Encapsulating purity
Unsullied by reality
We do not care that Tories rule
We’ll bang and shout and play the fool
For compromise is what we fear:
We’ll keep the white flag flying here.
0 -
Dr. Prasannan, bloody Tories. Can't stand them. Especially those 'voters', as they call themselves. Capitalist pigdogs expressing their execrable individualist bourgeois desires through the depraved medium of the ballot box!0
-
Go on, since I'm feeling cynical:
The Cooper banner flutters high
A scarlet flag in pale blue sky
It matters not it’s all a sham
For ovaries maketh the man
So please ignore my flipping homes
Behold my two X chromosomes
For feminists, it’s all a ruse:
I want to stand in Thatcher’s shoes0 -
The neat descriptive phrase was 'armchair intellectual'.Scott_P said:@FD: Explaining Jeremy Corbyn to Americans http://t.co/TVwhfPNckJ
0 -
it is also a clean break from the past. No mention of owls.SeanT said:
Mixture of EdStone banality and Ministry of Truth mendacity.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
Think "Equality for all" is my favourite, being simultaneously stupid, vacuous, eerie, and menacing.
(Edit for substance as everyone seems to have made the owls joke.)
Scotland yes but no to EU-no for Cam to step down. In fact what a legacy! A relatively recent phenomenon was given a run-out, and deemed not to be a success by the British public. And it was Cam that gave people the opportunity to express this.0 -
Not a North London Intellectual?flightpath01 said:
The neat descriptive phrase was 'armchair intellectual'.Scott_P said:@FD: Explaining Jeremy Corbyn to Americans http://t.co/TVwhfPNckJ
0 -
david_herdson said:
Go on, since I'm feeling cynical:
The Cooper banner flutters high
A scarlet flag in pale blue sky
It matters not it’s all a sham
For ovaries maketh the man
So please ignore my flipping homes
Behold my two X chromosomes
For feminists, it’s all a ruse:
I want to stand in Thatcher’s shoes
Outstanding - even better than your first version!
0 -
And no mention of cats. Mr. Dancer specifically said on this site just yesterday that Corbyn planned to nationalise cats. There was even a brief conversation n the feasibility/desirability of such a policy. Yet when the list comes out felines don't even get a mention.John_M said:
What about the owls? I'm not letting them brush that one under the carpet.flightpath01 said:
I guess we should all be grateful he and his coterie have limited themselves to 10 points. Heaven only knows what a number 13 might look like.RodCrosby said:Jeremy Corbyn has launched his 10-point policy plan in Glasgow as he promises a "new kind of politics" if he wins the Labour leadership contest.
A copy is being sent to all Labour members in a bid to secure their vote as the party sends out the first ballot papers.
http://www.itv.com/news/2015-08-14/jeremy-corbyn-promises-new-kind-of-politics-as-he-unveils-10-point-policy-plan/
The "Standing to Deliver"policies include:
Growth not austerity – with a national investment bank to help create tomorrow's jobs and reduce the deficit fairly. Fair taxes for all.
A lower welfare bill through investment and growth
Action on climate change
Public ownership of railways and in the energy sector
Decent homes for all in public and private sectors by 2025 through a big house-building programme and controlling rents.
A foreign policy that prioritises justice and assistance.
Fully-funded NHS, integrated with social care, with an end to privatisation in health.
Protection at work including an end to zero hours contracts
Equality for all
A life-long national education service for decent skills and opportunities, universal childcare, the abolition of student fees, restoring grants, and funding adult skills training.
In terms of other numbers there is one that everyone is forgetting. 66. Who is the mad screaming leftie who is going to keep the Stormyn Corbyn wagyn rollin' ??
I am afraid Mr. Dancer's reputation as a political pundit and forecaster cannot but take a large knock in the credibility sector.0 -
Bravo!
*throws roses onto stage*david_herdson said:Go on, since I'm feeling cynical:
The Cooper banner flutters high
A scarlet flag in pale blue sky
It matters not it’s all a sham
For ovaries maketh the man
So please ignore my flipping homes
Behold my two X chromosomes
For feminists, it’s all a ruse:
I want to stand in Thatcher’s shoes0 -
Mr. Llama, the absence of both cats and owls from Corbyn's published plans speaks of an animal conspiracy.
The sensible men of the world know that enormo-haddock and octo-lemurs are the way forward.0 -
I was just accused of 'running scared' as a tory suggesting that voting for Corbyn might not be the smartest thing for Labour to do.0
-
Armchair.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Not a North London Intellectual?flightpath01 said:
The neat descriptive phrase was 'armchair intellectual'.Scott_P said:@FD: Explaining Jeremy Corbyn to Americans http://t.co/TVwhfPNckJ
Let's face it he has never has to practice what he preached or theorised over and when anyone else has tried, it has failed.0 -
notme said:
I was just accused of 'running scared' as a tory suggesting that voting for Corbyn might not be the smartest thing for Labour to do.
Trainspotters for Corbyn!0 -
Isn't "Standing to Deliver" an Adam and the ants song from 1980s?0
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Yes! Plato even posted the YouTube upthreadrottenborough said:Isn't "Standing to Deliver" an Adam and the ants song from 1980s?
0 -
Ms Plato
Being slow on the uptake I've just realised that "Dandy Highwayman" is a perfect epithet for JC!0 -
Seant, Plato - many thanks. It is a lovely tune (or more accurately, rhythm) to work with.0
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Best post on the thread - but I would argue that there is a fifth option, and that is what New Labour was about.EPG said:
Fourth, abandon the beliefs and congratulate yourself on hating the people in government more or less independently of your policy change desires. There is always a bit of 4 whether in government or opposition but I'm talking about the very personal stuff that replaces the pursuit of policies as a reason to support a government; basically a version of 3 that is not necessarily about incumbency.
Labour are now doing a mix of 1 and 2. Blair went full 4. The SDP were 2.
This is to retain the core beliefs (or "values" in New Labour speak) but modernise the policies that should bring them about, e.g. abandon state-ownership as a means of control in favour of laws, agencies and standards.
In domestic policy at least, the post 1997 Labour Government did lots of things which you could never have seen a Conservative government even considering, many of which have been wisely accepted as part of the furniture by the current Government.
EDIT: ...and done some things which were rubbish of course! 0 -
If Corbyn is challenged as leader and there is another leadership election is the key question whether Corbyn could get 35 MP nominations?
That seems to be the only way the MPs could oust him - but 35 is a low bar and once he is leader would he then be able to get nominations from people who didn't nominate him this time?0 -
Simple: you put someone like Tony Blair in charge of the party, win elections, and get to put at least some of your policies into action. That's far better than not being able to make any of them happen.EPG said:
PB understands the Conservatives very well but sometimes doesn't try to understand Labour people
If everyone is telling you that your beliefs lose elections, and that only abandoning your beliefs can win an election, what are your options?
First, you may not believe that claim if you have spent only five years in opposition
Second, you may accept the claim and bring it to its logical conclusion that only a party substantially similar to the Conservatives can win elections; this means Labour should be replaced by a different party that won't welcome the archetypical Labour activist and that will win elections, so there is no point caring about the electability of the actually existing Labour party. But it is a funny way of thinking because the claim really isn't true in the medium-term; views change and you may benefit
So third, you could wait it out until the people want to overthrow the government, win on a change wave and then foist your policies on the people. This is the predominant strategy of every leading opposition party in the world but contains the internal contradiction of policy unpopularity that leads to its own downfall
Fourth, abandon the beliefs and congratulate yourself on hating the people in government more or less independently of your policy change desires. There is always a bit of 4 whether in government or opposition but I'm talking about the very personal stuff that replaces the pursuit of policies as a reason to support a government; basically a version of 3 that is not necessarily about incumbency.
The Conservatives under Cameron did 3 but more 4. The policy content of Cameroonism was weak, but it is very important to its supporters that Labour are associated with bad people and Conservatives are associated with good (dare I say "virtuous") people.
Labour are now doing a mix of 1 and 2. Blair went full 4. The SDP were 2.
If Labour want to win an election they probably need to hate the Conservatives more. They spent 5 years mainly hating the Lib Dems and Ukip which didn't win them many seats. They look likely to spend 5 years doing 2.0 -
Corbyn is a veggie teetotaller ?
Just when I thought I couldn't despise him any further..0 -
“He hadn’t a single redeeming vice.” Oscar Wilde.TGOHF said:Corbyn is a veggie teetotaller ?
Just when I thought I couldn't despise him any further..
0 -
Ruth Davidson, not for the first time, echoing the general view on PB
Ruth Davidson MSP @RuthDavidsonMSP · 1 day1 day ago
Just read Cooper speech. Disagree (as you'd expect) but bloody hell, it's strong. What if she'd made it a month ago? https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/news/yvette-cooper-speech-manchester …
0 -
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB
Ladbrokes lCorbyn 1st Pref Vote share odds
12/1 Under 40%
11/4 40-50%
6/4 50-60%
11/4 60-70%
6/1 Over 70%
The only way I can see Corbyn losing is if he got under 40% on first prefs.0 -
Puritans all around - no same sex action with Farron, the Nats and their booze ban and no meat Corbyn.antifrank said:
“He hadn’t a single redeeming vice.” Oscar Wilde.TGOHF said:Corbyn is a veggie teetotaller ?
Just when I thought I couldn't despise him any further..
Thank heaven for the Cons and a bit of fun.
0 -
Thinking about this thread (and thank you to @david_herdson for brightening this one with reference to Yvette Cooper's multiples of everything, including houses) can anyone come up with any examples of Prime Ministers who weren't dragged from office more or less kicking and screaming?
In the twentieth century there were two: Wilson (although it has been suggested illness played a part) and Baldwin. For the rest, either illness or unpopularity or the collapse of their government they led or electoral defeat were required. Lord Salisbury is the only other one whose case might be a bit doubtful, but since he was clearly in decline by 1900 and Balfour was increasingly taking over the day-to-day running of the government from then on until Salisbury finally retired, I don't think he can have been said to have surrendered office voluntarily.
In the nineteenth century I can't off-hand think of a single example apart possibly from Earl Grey in 1834 (about whom I don't know very much).
In the eighteenth century - with political musical chairs going on, there may have been some examples, although of course it wasn't always clear who the Prime Minister was in some of them.
So if Cameron does elect to amble off on his own terms, he will be very unusual and hopefully setting a precedent that politicians don't outstay their welcome.0 -
Standing to deliver...
... electoral wipe-out.0 -
It was said of Sir Stafford Cripps, formerly a leading figure of the CPGB and later Chancellor of the Exchequer under Attlee, that he 'was not only a vegetarian and a teetotaller, but he looked like one too.'TGOHF said:Corbyn is a veggie teetotaller ?
Just when I thought I couldn't despise him any further..
Can anyone spot any resemblance to Corbyn?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Cripps#/media/File:Stafford_Cripps_1947.jpg
EDIT - he was also of course a non-smoker, but that's not unusual today.0 -
Roundheads v Cavaliers in the 21st Century.TGOHF said:
Puritans all around - no same sex action with Farron, the Nats and their booze ban and no meat Corbyn.antifrank said:
“He hadn’t a single redeeming vice.” Oscar Wilde.TGOHF said:Corbyn is a veggie teetotaller ?
Just when I thought I couldn't despise him any further..
Thank heaven for the Cons and a bit of fun.
0 -
Many congratulations to @TheWhiteRabbit on your news. I hope the job goes well.0
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@EddieBarnes23: Science? Farmers? Don't be daft, headlines are what matter to the SNP, writes @IanDuncanMEP http://t.co/EzpNaTmOaM0
-
Liz Truss will be next
Bunnco - Your Man on the Spot0 -
Mr. Bunnco, good to see you on. But next for what? Leader? Deputy leader? Defector?0
-
Don't be silly. A ban on GM is Good For Yes.Scott_P said:@EddieBarnes23: Science? Farmers? Don't be daft, headlines are what matter to the SNP, writes @IanDuncanMEP http://t.co/EzpNaTmOaM
0 -
This is Labour's 3rd recent leadership election.SeanT said:
That's quite astute (I think - I'm not sure I understood it all).EPG said:PB understands the Conservatives very well but sometimes doesn't try to understand Labour people
The Conservatives under Cameron did 3 but more 4. The policy content of Cameroonism was weak, but it is very important to its supporters that Labour are associated with bad people and Conservatives are associated with good (dare I say "virtuous") people.
Labour are now doing a mix of 1 and 2. Blair went full 4. The SDP were 2.
If Labour want to win an election they probably need to hate the Conservatives more. They spent 5 years mainly hating the Lib Dems and Ukip which didn't win them many seats. They look likely to spend 5 years doing 2.
However I reckon you underestimate the way social media is changing politics and upending all these rules. This is the first major leadership election which is being decided on Twitter and Facebook (thanks to Labour opening up the contest to all). On social media the shrillest, craziest voices often get the most attention, at its worse a kind of frenzy kicks in.
Traditional media is left floundering in its wake. See the lumbering way the Guardian tries to harness Corbymania - to little effect.
This is what is happening now. Corbyn is surfing an emotional cyberwave, and being elected by the Twitterati. Given that Twitter probably has a collective IQ of 80 - with occasional glimpses of genius, like an autistic savant - that is a pretty foolish way to choose a leader.
In the first their MPs were blackmailed into only nominating 1 candidate who turned out to be quite as insane as he was vicious.
In the second one brother stabbed another in the back...
Now they have given a green light to a swarm of entryists and gone out of their way to let them vote for a candidate who is as much an idiot as he is a bigot.
None of which is encouraging if we are to judge them on an ability to run the country. And to think that their best alternative is Cooper.... well I ask you!0 -
It's almost incredible that Tony only stood down on 27th June 2007.flightpath01 said:
This is Labour's 3rd recent leadership election.SeanT said:
That's quite astute (I think - I'm not sure I understood it all).EPG said:PB understands the Conservatives very well but sometimes doesn't try to understand Labour people
The Conservatives under Cameron did 3 but more 4. The policy content of Cameroonism was weak, but it is very important to its supporters that Labour are associated with bad people and Conservatives are associated with good (dare I say "virtuous") people.
Labour are now doing a mix of 1 and 2. Blair went full 4. The SDP were 2.
If Labour want to win an election they probably need to hate the Conservatives more. They spent 5 years mainly hating the Lib Dems and Ukip which didn't win them many seats. They look likely to spend 5 years doing 2.
However I reckon you underestimate the way social media is changing politics and upending all these rules. This is the first major leadership election which is being decided on Twitter and Facebook (thanks to Labour opening up the contest to all). On social media the shrillest, craziest voices often get the most attention, at its worse a kind of frenzy kicks in.
Traditional media is left floundering in its wake. See the lumbering way the Guardian tries to harness Corbymania - to little effect.
This is what is happening now. Corbyn is surfing an emotional cyberwave, and being elected by the Twitterati. Given that Twitter probably has a collective IQ of 80 - with occasional glimpses of genius, like an autistic savant - that is a pretty foolish way to choose a leader.
In the first their MPs were blackmailed into only nominating 1 candidate who turned out to be quite as insane as he was vicious.
In the second one brother stabbed another in the back...
Now they have given a green light to a swarm of entryists and gone out of their way to let them vote for a candidate who is as much an idiot as he is a bigot.
None of which is encouraging if we are to judge them on an ability to run the country. And to think that their best alternative is Cooper.... well I ask you!0 -
As LinkedIn data showed, the more aspiring Brits will just move out of London. Not to the home counties or northern cities, but to New York, Singapore, Sydney...isam said:Ever wondered how the Eastern Europeans manage to undercut british tradesmen?
I guess this will become commonplace for brits to so they can compete. Good old mass immigration, a benefit for us all
https://twitter.com/dailymailuk/status/632189447782703105
0 -
Miss Plato, even more incredible - consider that most MPs would probably welcome Miliband back as leader with open arms.0
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Prime Minister. A real Iron Lady.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Bunnco, good to see you on. But next for what? Leader? Deputy leader? Defector?
Osbourne's gone too soon.
0 -
Oh for the like button!david_herdson said:Go on, since I'm feeling cynical:
The Cooper banner flutters high
A scarlet flag in pale blue sky
It matters not it’s all a sham
For ovaries maketh the man
So please ignore my flipping homes
Behold my two X chromosomes
For feminists, it’s all a ruse:
I want to stand in Thatcher’s shoes0 -
If you've thrown in an Eden Kane reference then you're probably as old as I am, and I would have been ashamed to have made it!flightpath01 said:
This is Labour's 3rd recent leadership election.SeanT said:
That's quite astute (I think - I'm not sure I understood it all).EPG said:PB understands the Conservatives very well but sometimes doesn't try to understand Labour people
The Conservatives under Cameron did 3 but more 4. The policy content of Cameroonism was weak, but it is very important to its supporters that Labour are associated with bad people and Conservatives are associated with good (dare I say "virtuous") people.
Labour are now doing a mix of 1 and 2. Blair went full 4. The SDP were 2.
If Labour want to win an election they probably need to hate the Conservatives more. They spent 5 years mainly hating the Lib Dems and Ukip which didn't win them many seats. They look likely to spend 5 years doing 2.
However I reckon you underestimate the way social media is changing politics and upending all these rules. This is the first major leadership election which is being decided on Twitter and Facebook (thanks to Labour opening up the contest to all). On social media the shrillest, craziest voices often get the most attention, at its worse a kind of frenzy kicks in.
Traditional media is left floundering in its wake. See the lumbering way the Guardian tries to harness Corbymania - to little effect.
This is what is happening now. Corbyn is surfing an emotional cyberwave, and being elected by the Twitterati. Given that Twitter probably has a collective IQ of 80 - with occasional glimpses of genius, like an autistic savant - that is a pretty foolish way to choose a leader.
In the first their MPs were blackmailed into only nominating 1 candidate who turned out to be quite as insane as he was vicious.
In the second one brother stabbed another in the back...
Now they have given a green light to a swarm of entryists and gone out of their way to let them vote for a candidate who is as much an idiot as he is a bigot.
None of which is encouraging if we are to judge them on an ability to run the country. And to think that their best alternative is Cooper.... well I ask you!0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
