politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The coalition could be heading into stormy weather over the
In the first polling since Vince Cable’s Royal Mail sell-off announcement shows very substantial opposition right across the political spectrum.
Comments
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How many people know that the Post (The Royal Mail) is no longer part of the Post Office?
Am sure that separating them increased their costs unnecessarily0 -
Ah, right on cue, here comes Broad.0
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Radio 5 called people to get in touch with them the other day on this and a overwhelming majority of they listeners opposed it,so do I.0
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I would venture that if it was Labour proposing the privatisation the Lab/Con support/oppose figures would be reversed. I don't know a single person that supports the privatisation, Lab or Tory. It's going to be a vote loser.0
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Great last wicket partnership by Agar and the 3rd umpire!0
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Let's be frank. This privatisation is decidedly second class. It is questionable whether it will deliver. No wonder it lacks the stamp of approval.
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That was gettable, why doesn't Cook have anyone at second slip?0
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Sadly Cook has totally lost the plot. What was looking like a potentially series-killing romp for England has turned into a huge momentum swing for Australia. We still have a great chance in this game, but it's down to our batsmen to make the most of what are perfect conditions. And that's the worry!MaxPB said:Ah, right on cue, here comes Broad.
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I wonder how strongly held those opinions are. I doubt most voters are that bothered, although it feels like the kind of unpopular-but-worthy thing you'd like to have done well in advance of the election.
PS Maybe instead of doing a conventional privatization -> floatation thing they should consider just selling the whole thing to Deutsche Post. The voters might be a bit more enthusiastic if they could be convinced their stuff would actually get delivered under the new arrangement, rather than getting the same old rubbish British service but with more money paid to the managers.-1 -
I'm all in favour of privatising the Royal Mail. Why exactly does the Government need to be in the postal business in 2013?MaxPB said:I would venture that if it was Labour proposing the privatisation the Lab/Con support/oppose figures would be reversed. I don't know a single person that supports the privatisation, Lab or Tory. It's going to be a vote loser.
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Absolutely unbelievable turnaround heading into lunch. Century last wicket stand, Agar and Hughes on half tons, Australia take a small lead into the second innings rather than ~ 100 deficit.
Our batsmen need to fire this afternoon and Cook needs to get his house in order. Shocking captaincy over the last hour, Strauss would not have been this tactically naive.0 -
Good government doesnt rule by polling.
Any polls prior to BA or BT being privatised ?
Ignore and sell the flaming mess on.0 -
I have no confidence that we will be batting this afternoon...MaxPB said:Our batsmen need to fire this afternoon
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tim said:
@Tykejonno.
As you don't live in a highly populated area (population density of Bradford Urban is half that
of Inner London) why are you commenting?
I bet you have never been to Bradford,I remember last year,when you posted something about Bradfords population in which you got it wrong.
In the last 2 to 3 years in my area,the immigration from eastern Europe as been overwhelming,I see it with my own eyes matey not someone like you who bangs on everythings fine living in your lovely middleclass area.
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Having taken a few weeks off from firing randomly at their own feet HMG has decided to go back to losing ways. Stupid.0
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If I recall correctly, the "post" is how I used to send emails when I was young.Garethofthevale said:I'm all in favour of privatising the Royal Mail. Why exactly does the Government need to be in the postal business in 2013?
Now I think they are just the people who stick a note through my door telling me that I've got a parcel to collect from the other side of town because I "wasn't in". That parcel is usually a book that I should be reading on my Kindle but I'm still nostalgically attached to buying in an inefficient format of pulped dead tree because it also looks good on a shelf after being used.
Time to get out of the postal business whilst someone is still stupid enough to buy into a dying industry. In ten years time you wouldn't be able to give the thing away.0 -
I don't want to come across as a lefty, but I'm unconvinced by this move.
However, the earlier problem which must be resolved is the fact that the EU has ruled we can't have a monopoly (ie unchallenged Royal Mail dominance) which means profitable deliveries can be undercut whilst the Mail gets lumbered with the unprofitable bits.
From a business perspective this seems odd. From what I saw on the news last night it seems that the government will dictate the price of stamps and the private provider will be obligated to deliver everywhere. Given rival private operators will not have the latter obligation I fail to see how this will resolve the problem of private competition.0 -
Should Agar have been given out stumped early on? On TMS both Boycott, Aggers and others thought he was out?0
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Stick with the day job JonathanJonathan said:
Let's be frank. This privatisation is decidedly second class. It is questionable whether it will deliver. No wonder it lacks the stamp of approval.
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Mr. M, I hope you use your Kindle for books only available electronically *cough*.0
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curse of the new thread:
Off topic: WTF is the IMF playing at in the Eurozone?
The IMF is there to help countries, not to help currencies. Right now the IMF, under its French boss, is actually damaging countries in order to help keep the Euro alive that little bit longer. This fatally compromises the credibility and impartiality of a vital international body.
A quick peek at the wiki page told me that the Eurozone countries contribute 19.5% of the IMF’s funding and get 19.5% of the votes. What are the other 80.5% supposed to make of giving money to the GIPSIs and enforcing the usual spending control disciplines but without also requiring the usual devaluation and liberalization requirements (that are impossible within the Euro)? The Eurozone periphery is in an inescapable debt spiral, it’s passed the event horizon. Lending money to insolvent sovereigns is not what IMF money should be used for without demanding that the causes behind the insolvency be repaired. For the GIPSIs that will mean leaving the Euro. Shock horror. (Would be their salvation).
I think the UK should demand a new MD for the IMF (Lagarde is deep in French bribery ordure anyway) and push for a vote (led by the other 80.5%) to stop pissing international money up the Euro wall. Time for a non-European MD methinks before the IMF loses itself0 -
It did look out, but it was not 100%.Scrapheap_as_was said:Should Agar have been given out stumped early on? On TMS both Boycott, Aggers and others thought he was out?
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On topic, when push comes to shove I doubt this will shift many votes - though it may cement a few more 2010 LDs into the Labour camp.0
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Whether it was out or not is irrelevant, the fact that it was given not out is. We have spectacularly failed to deal with Hughes and Agar. Cook has been tactically naive this morning.Scrapheap_as_was said:Should Agar have been given out stumped early on? On TMS both Boycott, Aggers and others thought he was out?
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Isn't John Reid an adviser to G4S ? Blairism in action perhaps.tim said:
Maybe sell it to G4STGOHF said:Good government doesnt rule by polling.
Any polls prior to BA or BT being privatised ?
Ignore and sell the flaming mess on.
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Un-bee-lievable. G4S charged the taxpayer to electronically tag people who were dead. Chris Grayling has called in the Serious Fraud Office.
I wonder if they were the same dead people Grant Shapps canvasses at by elections.
If so a G4S run Royal Mail could kill two (already dead) birds with one stone.0 -
I'm out of this test-match from a betting point of view. Won't be a draw but its getting far too weird for my liking.0
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On MPs pay they're overpaid already. Supply and Demand there's a far greater supply of potential MPs than demand for them.
On Royal Mail of course it should be privatised. Why should the government be in the job of competing with UPS?0 -
So I wonder who the Ministers in the MoJ and the Home Office in 2005 and 2008 were.
"A review has found G4S and rival security company Serco both over-billed the taxpayer for running the tagging schemes .....
It also emerged Ministry of Justice officials first became aware of some of the problems in 2008 but failed to take appropriate action - and Mr Grayling said some civil servants may now face disciplinary action....
He added: "The audit team is at present confirming its calculations but the current estimate is that the sums involved are significant, and run into the low tens of millions in total, for both companies, since the contracts commenced in 2005."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10173615/G4S-and-Serco-Taxpayers-overcharged-by-tens-of-millions-over-electronic-tagging.html
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I think you can remain intensely relaxed on that front.Morris_Dancer said:I don't want to come across as a lefty
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Mr. Smithson, that's a bit harsh. I rather liked Mr. Jonathan's post.0
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Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
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Mr. Divvie, thank you for the reassurance
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@tim
The sensible solution is to stop yet another subsidy given to the countryside.0 -
So George has fked up again then ?AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.0 -
I do. In fact I have two excellent books fitting that very description: Bane of Souls and Journey to Altmortis purchased via Smashwords.comMorris_Dancer said:Mr. M, I hope you use your Kindle for books only available electronically *cough*.
Have you perchance heard of them?
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Best to get the government out of the mess that is the Royal Mail.Garethofthevale said:
I'm all in favour of privatising the Royal Mail. Why exactly does the Government need to be in the postal business in 2013?MaxPB said:I would venture that if it was Labour proposing the privatisation the Lab/Con support/oppose figures would be reversed. I don't know a single person that supports the privatisation, Lab or Tory. It's going to be a vote loser.
The universal service is worth keeping, but I cannot see how it can be maintained in the long term. Successive governments have allowed the private sector in - initially for large parcels, and now for smaller ones. The RM's monopoly is long gone. They are being squeezed by competition in a market (for letters) that, junk mail aside, is reducing. Competition on profitable parcels service is fierce.
It is hardly a sustainable business model for the long-term. They need to be freed up so they can truly invest and compete, or be kept in-house with the knowledge that losses to the taxpayer will mount.0 -
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.0 -
You need to be conVinced, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
So George has fked up again then ?AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
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Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher on why she didn't want to sell the royal mail said - "not prepared to have the Queen's head privatised".0
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I'm unsure why @FluffyThoughts flagged this a Troll. I thought it was a splendid idea.edmundintokyo said:...they should consider just selling the whole thing to Deutsche Post.
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There still is a Royal Mail? Who uses it nowadays?0
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It's a false comparison I think. Their would be an uproar if the goverment announced it was selling off a majority stake in the NHS. On the other hand I suspect most people don't feel all that strongly one way or the other about the Royal Mail. It doesn't seem to be something that people - outwith PB - are really talking about.Alanbrooke said:
So George has fked up again then ?AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.0 -
Mr. M, I have not, but as you, being renowned as a man of fine judgement and exquisite taste, consider them excellent I shall do the only sensible thing and peruse them posthaste.0
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I think the only item that has sales dropping faster than physical stamps is paper copies of the Guardian.Tykejohnno said:Wasn't it Margaret Thatcher on why she didn't want to sell the royal mail said - "not prepared to have the Queen's head privatised".
Not true in Maggies day - not that the static analysis dimwits will grasp the concept.0 -
Eugenics? Or a MacShane* cover story...?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23268512
You, the viewer, should decide....
* Nothing to do with Al-Beeb or a broken Labour party: Payoffs only apply when it demonstrates as a common purpose. [Legal issues to be dealt with internally. '"Cookie"; what a rac1st name for a cat!']0 -
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
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No Mr Pole I only stare on in bewilderment as this government having almost dug itself out of a hole decides where it went wrong was the last hole wasn't big enough and it should call in a JCB.AveryLP said:
You need to be conVinced, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
So George has fked up again then ?AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage. 0
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Starting an unpopular measure within 18 months of a GE which will give a wounded opposition some more ammo is just stupidity at its basest level. I would attribute HMGs slow recovery in the polls to taking a break from self-inflicted wounds. When the press have nothing to hit HMG round the head with they turn on the house of cards which is Ed's Labour and huge gaping holes in its policy are given the full spotlight treatment. This government is clueless.
As for your original justification on RM that just defies belief, it's precisely the quirky irrational attachment to the past which makes any nation. I'd much prefer that to the bland brand corporatism which you so clearly espouse, where multinats give us no real choice and pay no real taxes either.
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It is his second - successful - attempt to make me bite. Earlier he suggested that the Royal Navy should be given over to the Septics (but ignoring his Nipponese Gaijin blindness).GeoffM said:
I'm unsure why @FluffyThoughts flagged this a Troll. I thought it was a splendid idea.edmundintokyo said:...they should consider just selling the whole thing to Deutsche Post.
As someone who - ahem - works within the industry I can assure you that certain UK post-codes are not reachable.* [The routing-tables are horrendous.] DHL* is not the solution....
* Norwegians and Swiss are almost unaccessable: Naught to do with money....
** Never worked on DHL systems, nor any that I knowingly know to have employed them....0 -
Bang on the money with that assessment Josias, well past time the Royal Mail was privatised as its a costly luxury we the taxpayer can no longer afford in the current economic climate.JosiasJessop said:
Best to get the government out of the mess that is the Royal Mail.Garethofthevale said:
I'm all in favour of privatising the Royal Mail. Why exactly does the Government need to be in the postal business in 2013?MaxPB said:I would venture that if it was Labour proposing the privatisation the Lab/Con support/oppose figures would be reversed. I don't know a single person that supports the privatisation, Lab or Tory. It's going to be a vote loser.
The universal service is worth keeping, but I cannot see how it can be maintained in the long term. Successive governments have allowed the private sector in - initially for large parcels, and now for smaller ones. The RM's monopoly is long gone. They are being squeezed by competition in a market (for letters) that, junk mail aside, is reducing. Competition on profitable parcels service is fierce.
It is hardly a sustainable business model for the long-term. They need to be freed up so they can truly invest and compete, or be kept in-house with the knowledge that losses to the taxpayer will mount.
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meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.0 -
Is there a Labour division angle over this or is everyone against except Peter Mandelson?0
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@Max_Edinborough
There is no "the NHS": Each nation has it's own. England's management is not an issue for Edinborough....0 -
Given this is originally a Labour proposal based on the Hooper report (twice), that it is being introduced by a LibDem cabinet minister popular with the left, and that Conservatives are hardly likely to object, and that There Is No Alternative, it looks to me like this won't be a big challenge.0
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It's a Lib Dem policy isn't it? That makes your post a tautology.MaxPB said:I would venture that if it was Labour proposing the privatisation the Lab/Con support/oppose figures would be reversed. I don't know a single person that supports the privatisation, Lab or Tory. It's going to be a vote loser.
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Don't be silly, all the vaguely sane Labour figures support this, but of course are pretending not to at the moment.edmundintokyo said:Is there a Labour division angle over this or is everyone against except Peter Mandelson?
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LOL - excellent post.tim said:Some fantastic stuff in here
http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2013/06/14/25-reasons-why-we-love-scotland/
The Donald, the signs and the local papers.
Magnificent0 -
I'm with you on this one, and besides the RM seems to have sorted it's stuff out and is making a profit now. No private company will take the pension liabilities that are attached anyway, which is the bit you'd want to get rid of to be frank.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.0 -
Molecatchers maybe?tim said:
.@AndrewBridgenMP"Can’t think of another job where there are only 650 of those roles in the whole of GB that are paid on this sort of level"0 -
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That's a heck of a mistake to make - and not to be picked up before now.JonathanD said:So I wonder who the Ministers in the MoJ and the Home Office in 2005 and 2008 were.
"A review has found G4S and rival security company Serco both over-billed the taxpayer for running the tagging schemes .....
It also emerged Ministry of Justice officials first became aware of some of the problems in 2008 but failed to take appropriate action - and Mr Grayling said some civil servants may now face disciplinary action....
He added: "The audit team is at present confirming its calculations but the current estimate is that the sums involved are significant, and run into the low tens of millions in total, for both companies, since the contracts commenced in 2005."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10173615/G4S-and-Serco-Taxpayers-overcharged-by-tens-of-millions-over-electronic-tagging.html0 -
Ah, in that case I defer. I missed the RN comment so I was unaware that a running skirmish was occurring.FluffyThoughts said:It is his second - successful - attempt to make me bite.
I similarly defer to your specific industry experience and it's not really my area. Superficially the idea appealed to my instinctive economic attitude.
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The Queen should buy it, or at least a majority share. Then it would truly be the Royal Mail.0
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You are very grumpy today, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
I fear some Warwickshire wag must have painted all the county's postboxes in a fetching shade of London 2012 magenta.
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Or to make it absolutely explict. Allow the company to agree the market price and then agree a subsidy to equalise prices.Life_ina_market_town said:@tim
The sensible solution is to stop yet another subsidy given to the countryside.
Then voters and politicians can decide whether they are prepare to spend tax receipts in that manner.0 -
James Kirkup @jameskirkup
George Osborne says married couples tax allowance will be unveiled in his Autumn Statement later this year.
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England throwing it all away at Trent Bridge...0
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Is there an EU competition angle to this that means they have to do it, or have you spent too much time listening to politicians and ended up picking up some of their language, like using "there is no alternative" to mean "I want to do this"?RichardNabavi said:
There Is No Alternative
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IIRC, Thatcher's concerns were around Post Office Counters rather than the Royal Mail. But that business has been hacked to pieces alreadytim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?0 -
On-topic:
Royal-Mail was extremely profitable in 1995 [IIRC]. It even won the contract to run the Argentine mail-service.
And then the left*rds were elected. Within a couple of years the union-fed eejits destroyed a state asset.
Thankfully they had a - ahem - reasonably honest Business Secretary; one Peter Mandelsoehn. Even he knew when to untie the dead-and-the-driftwood....0 -
Not really, the pension liablities built up thus far are going to remain with HMG even if its privatised. No private company is going to touch them with a barge pole. Going forward I'd hope that all RM employees are in a defined contribution scheme, if they aren't well then that needed to change yesterday.GeoffM said:
Isn't that contradictory? It's fine except for the bits that aren't?Pulpstar said:...the RM seems to have sorted it's stuff out...the pension liabilities that are attached anyway, which is the bit you'd want to get rid of to be frank.
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Round here we paint them 2012 gold Mr Pole.AveryLP said:
You are very grumpy today, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
I fear some Warwickshire wag must have painted all the county's postboxes in a fetching shade of London 2012 magenta.
As for grumpy, what do you expect ? Just when you think HMG might have come to its senses you get episode 26 of The Madness of Twerp George.
Perhaps you could send him up here dressed as a grouse, about the 12th of August should be about right.
0 -
Read the Hooper report. This hasn't come out of the blue, Labour spent years trying to get this done under both Blair and Brown. (There is an EU competition angle, but mostly it's about efficiency and investment).edmundintokyo said:Is there an EU competition angle to this that means they have to do it, or have you spent too much time listening to politicians and ended up picking up some of their language, like using "there is no alternative" to mean "I want to do this"?
Declaration of interest: I vaguely know Richard Hooper, my wife used to work with him.0 -
Some Osborne Quotes from the press gallery lunch.
Kirsty Buchanan @KirstyBuchanan4
"It's not the right time to give MPs a pay rise," says the Chancellor
Kirsty Buchanan @KirstyBuchanan4
Osborne comes out strongly for HS2 despite soaring costs of the project
Kirsty Buchanan @KirstyBuchanan4
That will please the Tory backbench - Osborne sets Autumn Statement deadline to introduce married person's tax allowance
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titter ye not, but I have a client in Alabama that breeds chicks by the million.tim said:
Chicken sexers.RichardNabavi said:
Molecatchers maybe?tim said:
.@AndrewBridgenMP"Can’t think of another job where there are only 650 of those roles in the whole of GB that are paid on this sort of level"
He used to import Koreans to work at the production plants. They would sit by conveyer belts watching the chicks go by and pick out any flawed ones to dispose of them. Apparently Koreans are particularly good at spotting genetically flawed chickens by sight alone...0 -
Privatising RM without having them on equal market terms as everyone else is a terrible idea. As Alanbroke has said, it will just end up going bust and the taxpayer will have to bail it out.
Either the market is fixed in their favour and all mail operators in Britain have to offer a a universal service at the same pricing tiers or RM is allowed to drop it. I don't mind either tbh, but it doesn't make sense to privatise RM and put it into a free market where they are at a huge disadvantage.0 -
Shot, sir!tim said:
Grouse did you say?Alanbrooke said:
Round here we paint them 2012 gold Mr Pole.AveryLP said:
You are very grumpy today, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
I fear some Warwickshire wag must have painted all the county's postboxes in a fetching shade of London 2012 magenta.
As for grumpy, what do you expect ? Just when you think HMG might have come to its senses you get episode 26 of The Madness of Twerp George.
Perhaps you could send him up here dressed as a grouse, about the 12th of August should be about right.
He's a mean motherf*cking grouse shooter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1zLNV2F_hRE/SeHyuXAiKkI/AAAAAAAABXs/Bxon2EROb7k/s400/george+osborne.jpg
Lock and load man, lock and load.
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Not that I think this Govt is not willing and able to smack itself round the head with any nearby implement but....Alanbrooke said:
No Mr Pole I only stare on in bewilderment as this government having almost dug itself out of a hole decides where it went wrong was the last hole wasn't big enough and it should call in a JCB.AveryLP said:
You need to be conVinced, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
So George has fked up again then ?AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage. 0
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Starting an unpopular measure within 18 months of a GE which will give a wounded opposition some more ammo is just stupidity at its basest level. I would attribute HMGs slow recovery in the polls to taking a break from self-inflicted wounds. When the press have nothing to hit HMG round the head with they turn on the house of cards which is Ed's Labour and huge gaping holes in its policy are given the full spotlight treatment. This government is clueless.
As for your original justification on RM that just defies belief, it's precisely the quirky irrational attachment to the past which makes any nation. I'd much prefer that to the bland brand corporatism which you so clearly espouse, where multinats give us no real choice and pay no real taxes either.
privatisation is a good idea. First, govt should get out of business. Secondly, it will play well to um, younger voters. Snail mail is so, well, snail-like. Thirdly, what do we get by mail these days? Direct mail (20% of all mail), bank statements - good nudge to go electronic - and greetings cards. BFD.
And there will be any number of horizontal and vertical integrations into postage-inclusive offerings from moonpig, etc.
So in all a good thing, shows the Cons to be a modern, principled small state party. Hoorah!
But, more importantly, what in god's good name is happening in the cricket!?
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tim, this is the countryside, round here we do things differently than Merseyside, you can park your car and it wont be on 4 bricks when you come back.tim said:
Grouse did you say?Alanbrooke said:
Round here we paint them 2012 gold Mr Pole.AveryLP said:
You are very grumpy today, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
I fear some Warwickshire wag must have painted all the county's postboxes in a fetching shade of London 2012 magenta.
As for grumpy, what do you expect ? Just when you think HMG might have come to its senses you get episode 26 of The Madness of Twerp George.
Perhaps you could send him up here dressed as a grouse, about the 12th of August should be about right.
He's a mean motherf*cking grouse shooter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1zLNV2F_hRE/SeHyuXAiKkI/AAAAAAAABXs/Bxon2EROb7k/s400/george+osborne.jpg
Lock and load man, lock and load.0 -
I believe there may be a Crown guarantee anyway - I think the Post Office is a bit like BT in that the state is already the guarantor of last resort for the pension fund.Pulpstar said:
Not really, the pension liablities built up thus far are going to remain with HMG even if its privatised. No private company is going to touch them with a barge pole. Going forward I'd hope that all RM employees are in a defined contribution scheme, if they aren't well then that needed to change yesterday.GeoffM said:
Isn't that contradictory? It's fine except for the bits that aren't?Pulpstar said:...the RM seems to have sorted it's stuff out...the pension liabilities that are attached anyway, which is the bit you'd want to get rid of to be frank.
0 -
Those of us of a certain age will be amused to see EXACTLY the same arguments used to oppose Royal Mail privatisation as were used to oppose BT privatisation - one of the most incontrovertible spectacular successes of any policy of the last half-century.0
-
Mr. Topping, electronic stuff is nice but not everywhere has (and not everyone wants) a solid/fast internet connection - hence why the Xbone had to abandon its deranged 24 hour online check.
Edited extra bit: that was phrased clumsily. I meant that not everyone wants to be online, or do their activities through that medium.0 -
Agree with you de facto that's going to be the solution, plus with your point about it not being viable as a package including pensions.Pulpstar said:Not really, the pension liablities built up thus far are going to remain with HMG even if its privatised.
That was really my point, though. To say it's "sorted it's stuff out" is too broad brush. It's curate's egg and will remain so until we scoop the nasty bits out at some point in the future. As it stands currently as an entity it is toxic and unsellable (caused by the pensions bit).
Verging into semantics on my part, I suspect, so I will desist.
0 -
please note how George's gun is cunningly pointed at his feet in that photo.AveryLP said:
Shot, sir!tim said:
Grouse did you say?Alanbrooke said:
Round here we paint them 2012 gold Mr Pole.AveryLP said:
You are very grumpy today, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
I fear some Warwickshire wag must have painted all the county's postboxes in a fetching shade of London 2012 magenta.
As for grumpy, what do you expect ? Just when you think HMG might have come to its senses you get episode 26 of The Madness of Twerp George.
Perhaps you could send him up here dressed as a grouse, about the 12th of August should be about right.
He's a mean motherf*cking grouse shooter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1zLNV2F_hRE/SeHyuXAiKkI/AAAAAAAABXs/Bxon2EROb7k/s400/george+osborne.jpg
Lock and load man, lock and load.0 -
Err, the pensions have already been separated out.GeoffM said:As it stands currently as an entity it is toxic and unsellable (caused by the pensions bit).
0 -
Give the Tories a second term with a majority and they will be saying the same about the long overdue privatisation of the NHS.RichardNabavi said:Those of us of a certain age will be amused to see EXACTLY the same arguments used to oppose Royal Mail privatisation as were used to oppose BT privatisation - one of the most incontrovertible spectacular successes of any policy of the last half-century.
The lefties never learn.
0 -
Shush!AveryLP said:
Give the Tories a second term with a majority and they will be saying the same about the long overdue privatisation of the NHS.RichardNabavi said:Those of us of a certain age will be amused to see EXACTLY the same arguments used to oppose Royal Mail privatisation as were used to oppose BT privatisation - one of the most incontrovertible spectacular successes of any policy of the last half-century.
The lefties never learn.0 -
This is a stupid privatisation. It won't raise much money and it will just cause needless grief. Since the key issue is the pension fund deficit it would make more sense to run it to fill the hole.Charles said:
I believe there may be a Crown guarantee anyway - I think the Post Office is a bit like BT in that the state is already the guarantor of last resort for the pension fund.Pulpstar said:
Not really, the pension liablities built up thus far are going to remain with HMG even if its privatised. No private company is going to touch them with a barge pole. Going forward I'd hope that all RM employees are in a defined contribution scheme, if they aren't well then that needed to change yesterday.GeoffM said:
Isn't that contradictory? It's fine except for the bits that aren't?Pulpstar said:...the RM seems to have sorted it's stuff out...the pension liabilities that are attached anyway, which is the bit you'd want to get rid of to be frank.
0 -
How many do Australia need to declare? I have never seen anything like this.0
-
More from Osborne from the press gallery lunch,this time he's trying to wind our tim up ;-)
Ned Simons @nedsimons
Asked if he wants to be PM, Osborne says: 'I'm extremely happy doing this job and hope to continue doing it'
PoliticsHome @politicshome
Chancellor jokes about photos of him jogging in St James Park. "It's not easy being Oliver Letwin's correspondence secretary"
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh
Osborne reveals he's wearing a Jawbone 'Up' bracelet that monitors his steps, sleep u name it
Ned Simons @nedsimons
When did the chancellor last have a McDonalds? 'last week' he reveals.
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nor should they. But that shouldn't derail the principle of govt exiting the private sector. It is a less efficient means of communication. And that's fine. So let's see where the market prices it.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Topping, electronic stuff is nice but not everywhere has (and not everyone wants) a solid/fast internet connection - hence why the Xbone had to abandon its deranged 24 hour online check.
Edited extra bit: that was phrased clumsily. I meant that not everyone wants to be online, or do their activities through that medium.0 -
Richard Nabavi - BT was sold on the cheap wasn't it? The government should have got more money for it as the share price quickly rose I seem to recall.0
-
The Bullingdon Club is not a urban street gang, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
please note how George's gun is cunningly pointed at his feet in that photo.AveryLP said:
Shot, sir!tim said:
Grouse did you say?Alanbrooke said:
Round here we paint them 2012 gold Mr Pole.AveryLP said:
You are very grumpy today, Mr. Brooke.Alanbrooke said:
meaningless piffle, the problems when they arise, like the banks will land back in the hands of the UK taxpayer.AveryLP said:
Privatising the Royal Mail is all about supply side reform, tim.tim said:TGOHF said:
Bravo sir. Common sense amongst the Daily Mailesque panic at upsetting the housewives that we see from the lefties.AveryLP said:Support for the Royal Mail remaining within the public sector is a symptom of infectious nostalgia, a particularly British disease. It is similar to the plague which has infected supporters of the NHS and its angels of death.
It is nanny state comfort, red pillar boxes with cast-iron crown insignia, jolly bicycling postmen chased by barking dogs all straight out of Ealing Street Studios. It is island deliveries and penny postage.
It is kindly matrons in village sub post offices delivering Christmas parcels to Hovis boys in shorts. It is Hornby train sets capturing plastic mail bags.
It is pure Danny Boyle Olympics Opening Ceremony sentiment.
There is no place in a progressive 21st Century Britain for such nonsense.
Tories like Thatcher opposed it.
I assume to keep on subsidising rural Tory voters.
But you're arguing that a private company should be set up with a remit to subsidise rural voters instead.
Where's the free market logic in that?
Forget about interim price regulation and cross-subsidy. It will pass as a competitive market develops.
I fear some Warwickshire wag must have painted all the county's postboxes in a fetching shade of London 2012 magenta.
As for grumpy, what do you expect ? Just when you think HMG might have come to its senses you get episode 26 of The Madness of Twerp George.
Perhaps you could send him up here dressed as a grouse, about the 12th of August should be about right.
He's a mean motherf*cking grouse shooter
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_1zLNV2F_hRE/SeHyuXAiKkI/AAAAAAAABXs/Bxon2EROb7k/s400/george+osborne.jpg
Lock and load man, lock and load.
George is planning to free the sub post offices not hold them up.
0 -
George Eaton @georgeeaton
Osborne cites his favourite piece of political wisdom: "oppositions move to the centre ground, governments move the centre ground."
0 -
Did anyone see the stumping appeal earlier? Apparently it was very close indeed.0
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Opening up the telecoms market was a long overdue reform and a major success. Whether the BT privatisation was the runaway success you say I'd question. The company was sold below value ( tax payer loss) nearly went bust 15 years later and isn't global player in anything.RichardNabavi said:Those of us of a certain age will be amused to see EXACTLY the same arguments used to oppose Royal Mail privatisation as were used to oppose BT privatisation - one of the most incontrovertible spectacular successes of any policy of the last half-century.
Since the package and postal market have already had a high degree of monopoly reform, there will be no similar gain with RM, we're dealing with the hard to handle bits now.0 -
LOL
Alex Wickham @WikiGuido
Outstanding RT @keewa: Kate Middleton didn't realise she was in Labour, she was signed up automatically as a member of Unite.0 -
On-topic:
There are no state post-offices in The Netherlands. TNT was going to be bought by United Parcels Services but - ahem - shyte happens. Not all successful programmers who work in the industry have to have a link to the Indian sub-continent.
Naught wrong with what is happening in The Netherlands. The same model will surely work in the UK ('Arriet-'Ardbint and her "gamer" trolls permitting)....0
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