politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour need not only a decent leader they also need a decen
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour need not only a decent leader they also need a decent strategist to help the new leader
It can be argued that the next Labour leader has the hardest task any Labour leader faces since Arthur Henderson. Labour are vulnerable on their left flank, from a Farron led Lib Dem party who will be more attractive to Labour supporters than Nick Clegg. They will also have to deal with the Greens and the SNP on their left. They also have UKIP to contend with on their right flank.
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First?
Edit: the entire Labour team from 2015 needs throwing out and replacing with competent people. But most of all, they need coherent, saleable policies, not the populist incoherent scattergun that Miliband favoured.
As an aside: surely the Fallon comment, and to an extent the Miliband in Salmond's pocket, were tactics rather than out-and-out strategies. It is just that the latter in particular was a very good tactic that, once it was seen to be working, got pressed harder.0 -
Second!
The first step does need to be a purge at HQ. Ed was pisspoor, but the campaign team allowed him to show it to the world. Any sane team would have treated the #edstone as a joke.
Balls may well run a good backroom operation. I wouldn't let him near the till but he has other strengths.0 -
"PS – My bit of a free advice to the Labour party on how to put a positive spin on a potential Lab/SNP coalition at Westminster. Point out that the Tories had an unofficial alliance with the minority SNP government at Holyrood between 2007 and 2011, if the SNP in government is so terrible and evil, why did the Tories inflict it on Scotland for four years?"
That's easy to counter though. You argue that the SNP at Holyrood are interested in helping Scotland, and therefore they can be supported on that remit. The SNP at Westminster are interested in helping Scotland and harming the union (and perhaps England), and therefore it would be madness to support them at Westminster.0 -
Balls is not a patch on Mandelson, and they need someone with the latter's gifts. But I'm not sure Mandelson will make himself available.foxinsoxuk said:Second!
The first step does need to be a purge at HQ. Ed was pisspoor, but the campaign team allowed him to show it to the world. Any sane team would have treated the #edstone as a joke.
Balls may well run a good backroom operation. I wouldn't let him near the till but he has other strengths.
Labour need to move on. New policies, new hope, and a new team.0 -
Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.0 -
Harriet Harman has issued a humiliating rebuke to Labour leadership favourite Andy Burnham amid claims he is ‘tacking Left’ to stop veteran Jeremy Corbyn from winning the contest.
In an extraordinary put-down, acting party boss Ms Harman told Mr Burnham that Labour had ‘lost’ the debate on capping benefit pay-outs, before adding: ‘You may have noticed that we lost the Election.’
The withering remarks came in a behind-closed-doors meeting of Labour’s Shadow Cabinet last week ahead of George Osborne’s Budget statement.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157810/Andy-lost-debate-noticed-lost-election-Harman-s-stinging-rebuke-leadership-favourite-Andy-Burnham-amid-claims-tacking-left-defeat-Jeremy-Corbyn.html#ixzz3fehDOHhk
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
Being a very popular paper in the UK it's not going to help him get his message across to the people he has to convince. Every time the Sun talks about Burnham they should now just show a picture of a tub of lard.0 -
Being a very popular paper in the UK it's not going to help him get his message across to the people he has to convince. Every time the Sun talks about Burnham they should now just show a picture of a tub of lard.Moses_ said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
It's backwards looking and to the past.
The last line is particularly interesting: what "special favours" will he be doing for papers that support him?0 -
Sky news........
The leader of the Unite union says that 50,000 members have signed up to vote in the Labour leadership ballot.
Len McCluskey made the announcement sharing a stage with the union's favoured candidate, Jeremy Corbyn, at the Durham Miners' Gala.
Unite came out in support of Mr Corbyn last week in a move the veteran, left-wing MP said "shows we are serious".
Is that enough is have a significant effects on the outcome. Of dear me could you just imagine Corbyn coming through on the inside to win.0 -
Liz Kendall is a risky choice as she would struggle to unite the party behind her but still the best choice. Burnham and Cooper are retreads tainted by their years with Brown, Corbyn is continuity Foot. Choosing anyone else is choosing the comforts of opposition over a realistic chance of government.JosiasJessop said:
Balls is not a patch on Mandelson, and they need someone with the latter's gifts. But I'm not sure Mandelson will make himself available.foxinsoxuk said:Second!
The first step does need to be a purge at HQ. Ed was pisspoor, but the campaign team allowed him to show it to the world. Any sane team would have treated the #edstone as a joke.
Balls may well run a good backroom operation. I wouldn't let him near the till but he has other strengths.
Labour need to move on. New policies, new hope, and a new team.
I think Liz is ruthless and ambitious to purge the HQ team.0 -
The "centre ground" has moved miles to the right by comparison with a generation ago. Labour's activists have not. This is largely due to globalisation, and the defeat of the Soviet "empire": it was always intended by the globalisers that their agenda would include the destruction of welfare capitalism, social democracy or whatever you want to call it. It is also the case that elections are increasingly fought over identity politics rather than economics, and Labour can never cope with this as its heart believes in universal brotherhood and the voters don't and aren't going to anytime soon.
I am beginning to hope that Labour does elect Corbyn so that the Blairites all quit the Party.0 -
The Edstone is probably a good test.
If you knew about it and either
(A) liked it
(B) didn't at least have a quiet word with your line manager
you should probably go.0 -
My choice would be in order:Innocent_Abroad said:The "centre ground" has moved miles to the right by comparison with a generation ago. Labour's activists have not. This is largely due to globalisation, and the defeat of the Soviet "empire": it was always intended by the globalisers that their agenda would include the destruction of welfare capitalism, social democracy or whatever you want to call it. It is also the case that elections are increasingly fought over identity politics rather than economics, and Labour can never cope with this as its heart believes in universal brotherhood and the voters don't and aren't going to anytime soon.
I am beginning to hope that Labour does elect Corbyn so that the Blairites all quit the Party.
Kendall
Corbyn
Burnham
Cooper
We might get a reborn SDP with Corbyn in charge!0 -
Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
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I still can't believe it actually existed in this dimension. Or even in a parallel one.
It's just such a terribly bad and asking-for-it stunt, that was actually dead serious.
In years to come - future PBers will make jokes about it and newbies will wonder WTF? It goes into the annals of history along with Ed Balls Day and Free Owls.Jonathan said:The Edstone is probably a good test.
If you knew about it and either
(A) liked it
(B) didn't at least have a quiet word with your line manager
you should probably go.0 -
"You can see how the Tories might use...Yvette Cooper’s past health problems or who her husband is to attack [her] leadership."
That would be a mistake by the Tories and it's probably why Yvette is Labour's best bet for leader.0 -
Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.0 -
It wouldn't be "a mistake" it would be a massive error of judgement.tlg86 said:"You can see how the Tories might use...Yvette Cooper’s past health problems or who her husband is to attack [her] leadership."
That would be a mistake by the Tories and it's probably why Yvette is Labour's best bet for leader.0 -
Mentioning Balls is perfectly fair. I can't see why any opponent would mention her past health. There's plenty of political clubs to bop her with.
HIPS for starters.tlg86 said:"You can see how the Tories might use...Yvette Cooper’s past health problems or who her husband is to attack [her] leadership."
That would be a mistake by the Tories and it's probably why Yvette is Labour's best bet for leader.0 -
And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.0 -
If Burnham were tacking left to beat Corbyn, Labour are in big trouble.
I think it's just politicking to be all things to all men (and women). I don't think Ed came over as too left, despite the Tories claims. Too gormless ... yes, but that's a different matter.
With Burnham and Cooper, Labour will get Ed without the obvious gaffes. With Corbyn, they'll have Animal Farm writ large, and with Liz, they'll have a Blair-type election winner.
I don't vote Labour anymore so I wouldn't dare to give advice. But it looks like Burnham as the comfort blanket. Change but not too much.0 -
Beards are back in fashion with the hipsters. We may have to wait a little longer for them to adopt corduroy!Plato said:Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.0 -
On theJonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.Corduroycontrary the Tories will love him................ That's why Kendall should be elected.0 -
I'd expect far more voters to see Jerry C as too old than as too leftuous or as improperly dressed.foxinsoxuk said:
Beards are back in fashion with the hipsters. We may have to wait a little longer for them to adopt corduroy!Plato said:Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
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Good morning, everyone.
FPT: Mr. T, thanks for that clarification on voting. It seems insane that countries could be forced to throw billions more at Greece.0 -
You can even create your own.Plato said:I still can't believe it actually existed in this dimension. Or even in a parallel one.
It's just such a terribly bad and asking-for-it stunt, that was actually dead serious.
In years to come - future PBers will make jokes about it and newbies will wonder WTF? It goes into the annals of history along with Ed Balls Day and Free Owls.Jonathan said:The Edstone is probably a good test.
If you knew about it and either
(A) liked it
(B) didn't at least have a quiet word with your line manager
you should probably go.
http://kryogenix.org/random/ed/ed.html
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Substitute "Campbell" for "Mandelson" and that would be a good article.
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Morning. I think most Tories on here and elsewhere are massively in favour of Mr Corbyn being elected leader. He is most certainly articulate, but most of what comes out of his mouth might as well have come from 1970s USSR.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
If Labour are to have any hope of coming close in 2020 they need to elect a clean skin, someone with no baggage from the Brown years. That means Kendall.
TSE your PS about the Scotland problem is easily shot down. The Lab/SNP coalition would be running the whole UK for the benefit of Scotland, and not in a good way.0 -
Reactionary populism though is really easy, and really tempting. Even when the government is doing something you fundamentally agree with (in most of the more controversial things in the last parliament, Labour actually initiated), the voice against changes, the "forces of conservatism" Blair called them will be there to offer you support.JosiasJessop said:First?
Edit: the entire Labour team from 2015 needs throwing out and replacing with competent people. But most of all, they need coherent, saleable policies, not the populist incoherent scattergun that Miliband favoured.
As an aside: surely the Fallon comment, and to an extent the Miliband in Salmond's pocket, were tactics rather than out-and-out strategies. It is just that the latter in particular was a very good tactic that, once it was seen to be working, got pressed harder.
These voices of conservatism arent the landed gentry and captains of industry, its the proliferation of those paid by the public teet, either directly through the civil service or local government, and those indirectly by state funded pressure groups.
The last government can be framed by its welfare and how it was managed. If you were an alien who had recently landed from mars, you would be under the assumption that at no point Labour would want reform, and that the current system that the Coalition was working with, was nothing to do with them.
The most controversial area:
WCA, work capability assessments, and their processing by ATOS. It was incredible how a process set up by the labour government, carried out by the people they contracted to do the work became a sign, (from Labour) of how nasty the coalition was.
The system was so flawed, but the temptation to kick and kick and kick by the opposition, and to openly encourage direct action meant that ATOS themselves decided to call it a day.
Remember, the only changes that the coalition made to the WCA was to make it far less harsh, and much more flexible to people suffering terminal illnesses, and anyone receiving cancer treatment.
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@JosiasJessop
' "I give interviews generally and people can report my words. But I don't do special favours for newspapers that attack me and attack my party."
Our Andy's very sensitive, he's in danger of being completely ignored.0 -
I suspect there are a lot more people like this around, and the problem needs to be treated very seriously. Views such as he expresses are completely incompatible with a job requiring a security clearance within the British government.Plato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.
Cameron was right when he said about the communities that at best quietly condone terrorism and the 'community leaders' that speak out of both sides of their mouth on extremism. It's not going to be easy but it needs tackling as a matter of priority.0 -
He is threatening to come across as the stereotypical thin-skinned and perennially offended Scouser, which is not a good look to anyone outside that relatively small community.john_zims said:@JosiasJessop
' "I give interviews generally and people can report my words. But I don't do special favours for newspapers that attack me and attack my party."
Our Andy's very sensitive, he's in danger of being completely ignored.
Like them or loath them, the press exist and have to be dealt with, EdM tried the 'Evil Murdoch' approach and they duly got their revenge on him come election time.0 -
As an "anyone, just absolutely anyone but Labour" supporter ( even Monster Raving Loony party) I fully endorse that most wonderful and principled orator Jeremy Corbyn for Labour leader. He and he alone is their only hope ( of staying out of power indefinitely)Sandpit said:
Morning. I think most Tories on here and elsewhere are massively in favour of Mr Corbyn being elected leader. He is most certainly articulate, but most of what comes out of his mouth might as well have come from 1970s USSR.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
If Labour are to have any hope of coming close in 2020 they need to elect a clean skin, someone with no baggage from the Brown years. That means Kendall.
TSE your PS about the Scotland problem is easily shot down. The Lab/SNP coalition would be running the whole UK for the benefit of Scotland, and not in a good way.0 -
I think the cult of youth in politics has gone too far, even allowing for the fact that the PM is younger than me.Innocent_Abroad said:
I'd expect far more voters to see Jerry C as too old than as too leftuous or as improperly dressed.foxinsoxuk said:
Beards are back in fashion with the hipsters. We may have to wait a little longer for them to adopt corduroy!Plato said:Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
Apart from Corbyn all of the Lab leadership candidates are in their early 40s. If we want government by people who have a bit of life experience before they entered national politics then we need older politicians who are relatively fresh to parliament, so not too much part of the machine.
Corbyns age and beard are fine. It is his Syrizia-lite politics that is the problem.0 -
I suspect there are a lot more people like this around, and the problem needs to be treated very seriously. Views such as he expresses are completely incompatible with a job requiring a security clearance within the British government.Sandpit said:Plato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.
Cameron was right when he said about the communities that at best quietly condone terrorism and the 'community leaders' that speak out of both sides of their mouth on extremism. It's not going to be easy but it needs tackling as a matter of priority.
It can't be tackled. Full stop.
Muslims in this country almost all will the end (Sharia law) if not the means (ISIL-Da'esh* are a bunch of chancers they wouldn't trust to breed rabbits). BTW, if al-Andalusi has been reported correctly, he's not that far off. Which is the bigger coward - the suicide bomber, or the man sitting in a cockpit high in the sky pressing a button to release a drone? The RAF will have expensively trained aircrew on sick leave because they can't face it any more.
*US State Department preferred formulation.
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I had an image of AB saying that with a wobbly bottom lip and with a slight incline of the head while dabbing a tear from the corner of his eye with a pinkish hanky.john_zims said:@JosiasJessop
' "I give interviews generally and people can report my words. But I don't do special favours for newspapers that attack me and attack my party."
Our Andy's very sensitive, he's in danger of being completely ignored.
Party before country don't forget..... Party before country.0 -
How far Labour have fallen that a talentless nobody is their top prospect. She has no redeeming features, no personality , no charisma, no ideas , no presence , blah , blah.tlg86 said:"You can see how the Tories might use...Yvette Cooper’s past health problems or who her husband is to attack [her] leadership."
That would be a mistake by the Tories and it's probably why Yvette is Labour's best bet for leader.0 -
Liz Kendall offers Labour the only break with the past - Corbyn could bring back memories of the Winter of Discontent and hasten driverless trains on the whole underground network. The other two have too much history which could act like their personal ball (sic) and chain.
Liz may stumble for the first two years whilst Labour sorts itself out and finds some viable policies, but she does have at least four years to get there - whilst events happen. Corbyn make take himself off to the unions, but in their present form and thought process they are a dying organisation.
Liz does offer some hope for 2020 and certainly for 2025, but with the others that hope is diminished by over 50%.0 -
I don't really see Mandelson coming to the aid of any of the candidates except possibly Kendall. Even then I wouldnt be sure. Labour need to find a new team and it won't be easy. The edstone alone shows what a stunning lack of talent there is in party HQ. Was there no talent in the SPADs of the last government ? Where are the Cameron's and Osbornes?
Labour seem to have misplaced their production line. Even an outstanding leader would struggle to make an impact on their own. The present candidates need all the help they can get either because they are useless or because they have so much to learn.0 -
Unfortunately Liz is absolute rubbish, listened to her last week and she was dire, could not run a bath.Financier said:Liz Kendall offers Labour the only break with the past - Corbyn could bring back memories of the Winter of Discontent and hasten driverless trains on the whole underground network. The other two have too much history which could act like their personal ball (sic) and chain.
Liz may stumble for the first two years whilst Labour sorts itself out and finds some viable policies, but she does have at least four years to get there - whilst events happen. Corbyn make take himself off to the unions, but in their present form and thought process they are a dying organisation.
Liz does offer some hope for 2020 and certainly for 2025, but with the others that hope is diminished by over 50%.0 -
"PS – My bit of a free advice to the Labour party on how to put a positive spin on a potential Lab/SNP coalition at Westminster. Point out that the Tories had an unofficial alliance with the minority SNP government at Holyrood between 2007 and 2011, if the SNP in government is so terrible and evil, why did the Tories inflict it on Scotland for four years?"
it is one thing offering support to the SNP to govern Scotland, which one can assume they'll try and do in the interests of the Scots; it is another to rely on the SNP to govern the UK, when the assumption must still be that they'd try to do so in the interests of the Scots.0 -
Honestly I disagree with that conclusion from this source alone. As a scouser in his youth this is pretty much a requirement in Liverpool. Like barely anyone reads The Sun here (physical papers at least)
I don't think it has anything to do with an "anti-murdoch" type anti-establishment agenda or that any other explanation is warranted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
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Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.0 -
LAB needs a master strategist with formidable powers & tenacity - step forward, Lucy Powell.0
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Correct on all points.foxinsoxuk said:
I think the cult of youth in politics has gone too far, even allowing for the fact that the PM is younger than me.Innocent_Abroad said:
I'd expect far more voters to see Jerry C as too old than as too leftuous or as improperly dressed.foxinsoxuk said:
Beards are back in fashion with the hipsters. We may have to wait a little longer for them to adopt corduroy!Plato said:Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
Apart from Corbyn all of the Lab leadership candidates are in their early 40s. If we want government by people who have a bit of life experience before they entered national politics then we need older politicians who are relatively fresh to parliament, so not too much part of the machine.
Corbyns age and beard are fine. It is his Syrizia-lite politics that is the problem.
Corbyn's politics will turn off the centre in droves. Some people might like him in the way they liked George Galloway or Tony Benn once in a while and when they were giving it to the political establishment and broadly harmless but it's a different matter if they're within a sniff of power. See Michael Foot for details.
And parliament would be greatly improved if it had a much wider cross-section of the population represented, from late entrants to earlier ones.0 -
I think that I'd just aim for her overwhelming lack of competence.tlg86 said:"You can see how the Tories might use...Yvette Cooper’s past health problems or who her husband is to attack [her] leadership."
That would be a mistake by the Tories and it's probably why Yvette is Labour's best bet for leader.0 -
PS – My bit of a free advice to the Labour party on how to put a positive spin on a potential Lab/SNP coalition at Westminster. Point out that the Tories had an unofficial alliance with the minority SNP government at Holyrood between 2007 and 2011, if the SNP in government is so terrible and evil, why did the Tories inflict it on Scotland for four years?
That won't work, because you are misdiagnosising the problem. The obvious response to that attack is 'well that's in Scotland'.
The issue was that the SNP made very clear that they would be acting solely in the interests of the Scots - and the English didn't fancy being milked.0 -
It can't be tackled. Full stop.Innocent_Abroad said:
I suspect there are a lot more people like this around, and the problem needs to be treated very seriously. Views such as he expresses are completely incompatible with a job requiring a security clearance within the British government.Sandpit said:Plato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.
Cameron was right when he said about the communities that at best quietly condone terrorism and the 'community leaders' that speak out of both sides of their mouth on extremism. It's not going to be easy but it needs tackling as a matter of priority.
Muslims in this country almost all will the end (Sharia law) if not the means (ISIL-Da'esh* are a bunch of chancers they wouldn't trust to breed rabbits). BTW, if al-Andalusi has been reported correctly, he's not that far off. Which is the bigger coward - the suicide bomber, or the man sitting in a cockpit high in the sky pressing a button to release a drone? The RAF will have expensively trained aircrew on sick leave because they can't face it any more.
*US State Department preferred formulation.
A good point about the drone pilots. I've not seen studies about UK pilots but in the US it's becoming a serious issue. These guys are going to 'work' dropping bombs for 8 or 10 hours, then coming home to suburban wives and kids unable to talk about their day, before going back to work the next day to drop more bombs. That would screw with anyone's brain.
http://tech.slashdot.org/story/15/06/17/0315219/usaf-cuts-drone-flights-as-stress-drives-off-operators Good comments and links on the subject.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
More insulting is that he describes Liverpool as " a Labour city".
It's not.
A majority of the current voters vote Labour. But Labour doesn't own them: every day it needs to work to win those votes again.
A disgraceful sense of entitlement.0 -
I sort of understand given his background but, unless he is so self-important that he believes that by giving an interview he will rehabilitate The Sun on Merseyside, he fails to understand the balance of power. He needs an interview with The Sun to sell himself but The Sun does not need an interview with him to sell more newspapers.john_zims said:@JosiasJessop
' "I give interviews generally and people can report my words. But I don't do special favours for newspapers that attack me and attack my party."
Our Andy's very sensitive, he's in danger of being completely ignored.0 -
She'd have to. Otherwise they'd undermine her at every turn.foxinsoxuk said:
I think Liz is ruthless and ambitious to purge the HQ team.0 -
Pauly said:
Honestly I disagree with that conclusion from this source alone. As a scouser in his youth this is pretty much a requirement in Liverpool. Like barely anyone reads The Sun here (physical papers at least)
I don't think it has anything to do with an "anti-murdoch" type anti-establishment agenda or that any other explanation is warranted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
Refusing to be interviewed is cutting your nose off to spite your face,0 -
I see that Liz Kendall is drifting out in the betting - 8.4 now on Betfair. I'm not inclined to close out my winning position though. Right now she looks lost.
On topic, Yvette Cooper doesn't need to look further than her kitchen table to find an exceptional strategist with free time on his hands.0 -
Andy Burnham on why he should never be LAB leader. This guy is fool.
https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/burnham-vows-no-favours-sun-newspaper0 -
I don't think you've been paying attention, dear boy.Innocent_Abroad said:It is also the case that elections are increasingly fought over identity politics rather than economics, and Labour can never cope with this as its heart believes in universal brotherhood and the voters don't and aren't going to anytime soon.
Labour does identity politics more ruthlessly than anyone else. They slice and dice the electorate into groups that they define and address: if you are black, or gay, or Muslim, or disabled, or whatever Labour takes the view that this single characteristic defines you and what you stand for. If you don't - say you are a poor white male struggling to make ends meet - then you can be ignored.
The Conservatives at least target individuals rather than groups.
0 -
Greek summit cancelled. Look out below!0
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I doubt they would use her health.tlg86 said:"You can see how the Tories might use...Yvette Cooper’s past health problems or who her husband is to attack [her] leadership."
That would be a mistake by the Tories and it's probably why Yvette is Labour's best bet for leader.
They might well use her husband, but to some extent that's fair game. If she was PM do you really think that Ed Balls wouldn't have an influence on her thinking?0 -
With Corbyn in charge, you'd simply see all the trends of the last election reinforced. Labour would pile up even more votes in big cities, and slip further in small to medium-sized towns. They'd probably regain some ground in Scotland. My guess is the Conservatives would win by about 340 to 240 over Labour.david_herdson said:
Correct on all points.foxinsoxuk said:
I think the cult of youth in politics has gone too far, even allowing for the fact that the PM is younger than me.Innocent_Abroad said:
I'd expect far more voters to see Jerry C as too old than as too leftuous or as improperly dressed.foxinsoxuk said:
Beards are back in fashion with the hipsters. We may have to wait a little longer for them to adopt corduroy!Plato said:Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
Apart from Corbyn all of the Lab leadership candidates are in their early 40s. If we want government by people who have a bit of life experience before they entered national politics then we need older politicians who are relatively fresh to parliament, so not too much part of the machine.
Corbyns age and beard are fine. It is his Syrizia-lite politics that is the problem.
Corbyn's politics will turn off the centre in droves. Some people might like him in the way they liked George Galloway or Tony Benn once in a while and when they were giving it to the political establishment and broadly harmless but it's a different matter if they're within a sniff of power. See Michael Foot for details.
And parliament would be greatly improved if it had a much wider cross-section of the population represented, from late entrants to earlier ones.0 -
What's particularly stupid about Andy Burnham's vow not to treat with the Sun is that he already had unimpeachable credentials on Hillsborough. He's made himself look crazily ideological to the wider public for no significant advantage in the leadership election.0
-
I suspect there are a lot more people like this around, and the problem needs to be treated very seriously. Views such as he expresses are completely incompatible with a job requiring a security clearance within the British government.Sandpit said:Plato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.
Cameron was right when he said about the communities that at best quietly condone terrorism and the 'community leaders' that speak out of both sides of their mouth on extremism. It's not going to be easy but it needs tackling as a matter of priority.
It is quite extraordinary the lengths that public bodies will go to accommodate muslims, and will actively turn a blind eye to the most appalling behavoursa and activities. Islam truly is the 'new black'.
0 -
Well it may seem like an overreaction but there is definitely a cultural boycott of The Sun and even though a lot of time has passed the resentment is still alive. Surely a politician has every right to continue a principled boycott irrespective of party leadership.
Refusing to be interviewed is cutting your nose off to spite your face,Sean_F said:Pauly said:Honestly I disagree with that conclusion from this source alone. As a scouser in his youth this is pretty much a requirement in Liverpool. Like barely anyone reads The Sun here (physical papers at least)
I don't think it has anything to do with an "anti-murdoch" type anti-establishment agenda or that any other explanation is warranted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
0 -
Pauly said:
Well it may seem like an overreaction but there is definitely a cultural boycott of The Sun and even though a lot of time has passed the resentment is still alive.
Refusing to be interviewed is cutting your nose off to spite your face,Sean_F said:Pauly said:Honestly I disagree with that conclusion from this source alone. As a scouser in his youth this is pretty much a requirement in Liverpool. Like barely anyone reads The Sun here (physical papers at least)
I don't think it has anything to do with an "anti-murdoch" type anti-establishment agenda or that any other explanation is warranted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
I think Burnham was playing to the Unions rather than to the Scousers. Not least because the Scouse vote is largely in the bag.
Still a stupid move though.0 -
A clever politician would use The Sun's massive sensitivity to how it (and many of us) got it wrong on Hillsborough. The Sun would be gagging to do a massive mea culpa on the issue. It never really will repair its damage within Liverpool, but could help the wider issue. It would show how Burnham is seen in Liverpool.MikeSmithson said:Andy Burnham on why he should never be LAB leader. This guy is fool.
https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/burnham-vows-no-favours-sun-newspaper
He could take the Sun round the new liverpool. It would be a win for the Sun and a massive win and free publicity for Burnham.0 -
When I worked at DWP in Whitehall - someone thought it was a good idea to turn two meeting rooms into Male and Female Prayer Rooms. Really.
That lasted about a month and then they returned to their former function. I'd be surprised if there were 15 Muslims in the whole building. I had a white convert on my team and everyone crept around trying not to offend him or ever challenge his behaviour/work. Frankly I'd be surprised if he'd be at all bothered but it was front and centre everyday.
It was insidious and unhealthy on so many levels.
It is quite extraordinary the lengths that public bodies will go to accommodate muslims, and will actively turn a blind eye to the most appalling behavoursa and activities. Islam truly is the 'new black'.notme said:
I suspect there are a lot more people like this around, and the problem needs to be treated very seriously. Views such as he expresses are completely incompatible with a job requiring a security clearance within the British government.Sandpit said:Plato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.
Cameron was right when he said about the communities that at best quietly condone terrorism and the 'community leaders' that speak out of both sides of their mouth on extremism. It's not going to be easy but it needs tackling as a matter of priority.
0 -
I cashed out on Betfair on my Kendall bets when it went too short, and am all green there. I have some other bets on as long as 50:1 elsewhere.antifrank said:I see that Liz Kendall is drifting out in the betting - 8.4 now on Betfair. I'm not inclined to close out my winning position though. Right now she looks lost.
On topic, Yvette Cooper doesn't need to look further than her kitchen table to find an exceptional strategist with free time on his hands.
The omens from the CLP nominations are not good for Liz, but look good for Corbyn. I have topped up on him a bit.0 -
Plato said:
When I worked at DWP in Whitehall - someone thought it was a good idea to turn two meeting rooms into Male and Female Prayer Rooms. Really.
That lasted about a month and then they returned to their former function. I'd be surprised if there were 15 Muslims in the whole building. I had a white convert on my team and everyone crept around trying not to offend him or ever challenge his behaviour/work. Frankly I'd be surprised if he'd be at all bothered but it was front and centre everyday.
It was insidious and unhealthy on so many levels.
It is quite extraordinary the lengths that public bodies will go to accommodate muslims, and will actively turn a blind eye to the most appalling behavoursa and activities. Islam truly is the 'new black'.notme said:
I suspect there are a lot more people like this around, and the problem needs to be treated very seriously. Views such as he expresses are completely incompatible with a job requiring a security clearance within the British government.Sandpit said:Plato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.
Cameron was right when he said about the communities that at best quietly condone terrorism and the 'community leaders' that speak out of both sides of their mouth on extremism. It's not going to be easy but it needs tackling as a matter of priority.
And the old adage about give an inch and take a mile couldnt be more clear. Peoples behaviour changes the more invulnerable they feel to the consequences of their actions. Whether they are bankers, police officers or 'protected groups'.
0 -
Pauly said:
Well it may seem like an overreaction but there is definitely a cultural boycott of The Sun and even though a lot of time has passed the resentment is still alive. Surely a politician has every right to continue a principled boycott irrespective of party leadership.
Refusing to be interviewed is cutting your nose off to spite your face,Sean_F said:Pauly said:Honestly I disagree with that conclusion from this source alone. As a scouser in his youth this is pretty much a requirement in Liverpool. Like barely anyone reads The Sun here (physical papers at least)
I don't think it has anything to do with an "anti-murdoch" type anti-establishment agenda or that any other explanation is warranted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33496931JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
Burnham's sounding like continuity Miliband:Labour leadership candidate Andy Burnham has indicated he would not do an interview with the Sun newspaper if he becomes party leader.
Mr Burnham told the BBC he had not forgiven the paper for its coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster.
He said he did not do "special favours" for papers which "attack" him or the Labour Party.
I'm not disputing he's entitled to do so. It's just bad politics.
Labour is unassailable in Liverpool. The party needs to win over people who read the Sun and vote Conservative or UKIP in places like Swindon or Plymouth.
0 -
eu summit cancelled0
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MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.0 -
LOL, and that from the English who have been milking Scotland for 40 years, you could not make it up.Charles said:PS – My bit of a free advice to the Labour party on how to put a positive spin on a potential Lab/SNP coalition at Westminster. Point out that the Tories had an unofficial alliance with the minority SNP government at Holyrood between 2007 and 2011, if the SNP in government is so terrible and evil, why did the Tories inflict it on Scotland for four years?
That won't work, because you are misdiagnosising the problem. The obvious response to that attack is 'well that's in Scotland'.
The issue was that the SNP made very clear that they would be acting solely in the interests of the Scots - and the English didn't fancy being milked.0 -
I have had to re-define useless.malcolmg said:
MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.
Stewart Hosie set a new low on Marr. Next time send a can of Irn Bru to do the interview, it will make more sense.0 -
Mr. G, when you've got four shades of Brown picking any other colour is not possible.0
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Labour actually did worse in 1983 and 1987 than 2015, so arguably Foot and Kinnock had a harder job then, the SDP then also had far more votes and more seats than the LDs do now and Farron is no Jenkins or Owen. UKIP do take some votes from Labour in the north but they also take them from the Tories too, indeed in most Tory seats they are now ahead of the LDs. Labour should also not ignore seats held by the SNP just as the Tories went after LD seats in 2015 to win a majority so Labour should target 10-20 seats which would make its chances to achieve a majority much easier0
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From the BBC livefeed: "Rumours that Finland will oppose a third bailout have been denied by the country's Finance Minister Alexander Stubb. However, he added that a deal was still a long way off."0
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LOL, morning Alan, that probably means he was great and anti-Tory.Alanbrooke said:
I have had to re-define useless.malcolmg said:
MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.
Stewart Hosie set a new low on Marr. Next time send a can of Irn Bru to do the interview, it will make more sense.0 -
It is the meeting of the Council of the European Union that has been cancelled. That does not preclude a further bail out of Greece under the ESM treaty this evening.0
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MD, very true it really is an impossible choice of which is the least worse loser of the bunch.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, when you've got four shades of Brown picking any other colour is not possible.
0 -
Nah incoherent and whingey.malcolmg said:
LOL, morning Alan, that probably means he was great and anti-Tory.Alanbrooke said:
I have had to re-define useless.malcolmg said:
MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.
Stewart Hosie set a new low on Marr. Next time send a can of Irn Bru to do the interview, it will make more sense.
Like Peter Wishart complaining some wee boys called him names.0 -
They were naughty evil boys though.Alanbrooke said:
Nah incoherent and whingey.malcolmg said:
LOL, morning Alan, that probably means he was great and anti-Tory.Alanbrooke said:
I have had to re-define useless.malcolmg said:
MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.
Stewart Hosie set a new low on Marr. Next time send a can of Irn Bru to do the interview, it will make more sense.
Like Peter Wishart complaining some wee boys called him names.0 -
LOLmalcolmg said:
They were naughty evil boys though.Alanbrooke said:
Nah incoherent and whingey.malcolmg said:
LOL, morning Alan, that probably means he was great and anti-Tory.Alanbrooke said:
I have had to re-define useless.malcolmg said:
MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.
Stewart Hosie set a new low on Marr. Next time send a can of Irn Bru to do the interview, it will make more sense.
Like Peter Wishart complaining some wee boys called him names.
I suppose that's evil in the sense they didn't vote SNP ? :-)0 -
O/T, Geoffery Boycott celebrating his unexpected day off with a fantastic Telegraph column:
Nobody saw this coming. That includes the players, loyal supporters, bookmakers, or us ex-players. We all hoped for an England victory, but realistically would have settled for a good draw to go some way to erasing the embarrassing way we lost 5-0 in the last Ashes. But England have out-batted, out-bowled and out-captained Australia.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11734154/Ashes-2015-Now-Australia-look-like-the-team-in-crisis-not-England.html
Hope we all made money on the result
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The influence of the Sun newspaper is overrated, it now has a lower print circulation due to the internet and has less of a presence online than, say, the Mail and Guardian. Its readership is also now more Tory leaning and UKIP voting than in 1997 when it was closer to the nation as a whole.MikeSmithson said:Andy Burnham on why he should never be LAB leader. This guy is fool.
https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/burnham-vows-no-favours-sun-newspaper
In 1997 the nation voted 43% Labour, 30% Tory, 16% LD. Sun readers 52% Labour, 30% Tory, 12% LD
In 2015 the nation voted 30% Labour, 37% Tory, 13% UKIP. Sun readers 24% Labour, 47% Tory, 19% UKIP
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-voted/
The Sun has simply recently backed the winner, the winner has not won because of the Sun0 -
Mr. HYUFD, to maintain influence long term, The Sun needs to crack on with an online presence. Lots of people take a pick and mix approach to papers, reading the odd article online, rather than buying and reading the whole [perhaps physical] edition.0
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"This guy is fool"MikeSmithson said:Andy Burnham on why he should never be LAB leader. This guy is fool.
https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/burnham-vows-no-favours-sun-newspaper
OGH's stand-in for today is Mr. T.....?
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Radicalised by the Tories no doubt about it.Alanbrooke said:
LOLmalcolmg said:
They were naughty evil boys though.Alanbrooke said:
Nah incoherent and whingey.malcolmg said:
LOL, morning Alan, that probably means he was great and anti-Tory.Alanbrooke said:
I have had to re-define useless.malcolmg said:
MD, all that apart she is still useless and has never ever shown any signs that she could be leadership material.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. G, the alternatives may not be good.
I said before the contest got going I would go for Cooper, if a Labour chap. Burnham's a lightweight and Corbyn's far too far leftwing. I'd prefer someone like Kendall, but she's reportedly not performing well.
Cooper would be more a safe pair of hands. That said, I despise the allegation she's going to try waving her ovaries around for political advantage (against Cameron, though of course there's the 'as a mother' response to the Budget). Identity politics is rancid.
Stewart Hosie set a new low on Marr. Next time send a can of Irn Bru to do the interview, it will make more sense.
Like Peter Wishart complaining some wee boys called him names.
I suppose that's evil in the sense they didn't vote SNP ? :-)0 -
Mr Dancer, the argument for the sun being behind a firewall is that its a premium product... I'll give you 5 minutes for laughter to subside before continuing...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, to maintain influence long term, The Sun needs to crack on with an online presence. Lots of people take a pick and mix approach to papers, reading the odd article online, rather than buying and reading the whole [perhaps physical] edition.
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More political favours by Gordon?
Britain's most high-profile children's charity chief was facing fresh pressure last night over an unpaid £700,000 tax bill which was mysteriously waived by the then Chancellor Gordon Brown.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157634/Mystery-charity-s-unpaid-700-000-tax-bill-Kids-Company-took-money-staff-waived-taxman-Chancellor-Gordon-Brown.html0 -
He who pays the piper calls the tune. How could Syrizia think otherwise?Sandpit said:0 -
I'm not disputing he's entitled to do so. It's just bad politics.Sean_F said:Pauly said:W
RSean_F said:Pauly said:H
ht1JosiasJessop said:Oh, ffs.
BL
Labour is unassailable in Liverpool. The party needs to win over people who read the Sun and vote Conservative or UKIP in places like Swindon or Plymouth.
Indeed. There may be more mileage in changing tack and not reinforcing that 'cultural boycott' from the very top, even at the cost of a negligible hit in Liverpool. It's not guaranteed to help any, but it's better than perpetuating something that really needs to be let go already.
The Union parties would have argued they were acting in the best interests of everyone, and to the best interests of everyone. Clearly, Scotland no longer accepts that this was achieved, or even if it was the intent, but the argument as presented was different in that the prospect of supporting the SNP at Holyrood being different to supporting them at Westminster, in that they would, quite reasonably, only really care about Scotland, could still be made and be logically consistent. It just wouldn't work, probably.malcolmg said:
LOL, and that from the English who have been milking Scotland for 40 years, you could not make it up.Charles said:P
It's clear the SNP were aware of the concern, and in fairness I think their approach in the GE to turn it around and say 'Yes, we will have an impact...a good one for all nations by being more lefty' was a sound idea. With a less crap Ed M while there might have been fewer on the left outright hoping for an SNP influenced Labour party across the UK, but it might paradoxically actually have resulted in it happening, as the fear side of the equation of Labour being 'dominated' would not have had as much effect.
I agree, although there is a bit of a disconnect between what they public say they dislike - bland, youthful, cautious, overly similar professional politicians - and who they tend to end up electing - the same. The type of politician we have been electing, sort of by design has to be a professional identikit party automaton, as they need years of senior political and parliamentary experience before they turn 40, and the professional politicians will have a great advantage there.foxinsoxuk said:
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Indeed, I can understand paying to read the Times online, but the Sun?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. HYUFD, to maintain influence long term, The Sun needs to crack on with an online presence. Lots of people take a pick and mix approach to papers, reading the odd article online, rather than buying and reading the whole [perhaps physical] edition.
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So the Finns haven't shut the door yet, and Italy is saying Greece cannot be allowed to leave the Euro - which undermines any of the parties who think, reasonably or not, that Greece needs to offer more, as the Greeks will think correctly Italy won't vote to kick them out under any circumstances - so it's back to Germany and a few allies being the only ones who can get the voting percentage for a deal to be too low by opposing it.
Will the Germans really do that if they cannot get another 'big' Euro nation on side? They don't like being isolated I imagine.0 -
Interesting idea, could have potential for both sides!notme said:
A clever politician would use The Sun's massive sensitivity to how it (and many of us) got it wrong on Hillsborough. The Sun would be gagging to do a massive mea culpa on the issue. It never really will repair its damage within Liverpool, but could help the wider issue. It would show how Burnham is seen in Liverpool.MikeSmithson said:Andy Burnham on why he should never be LAB leader. This guy is fool.
https://www.politicshome.com/party-politics/articles/story/burnham-vows-no-favours-sun-newspaper
He could take the Sun round the new liverpool. It would be a win for the Sun and a massive win and free publicity for Burnham.0 -
Corbyn could also lose the few middle class suburban seats Ed Miliband gained from the Tories like Chester, Wirral West, Wolverhampton SW, Enfield North and HoveSean_F said:
With Corbyn in charge, you'd simply see all the trends of the last election reinforced. Labour would pile up even more votes in big cities, and slip further in small to medium-sized towns. They'd probably regain some ground in Scotland. My guess is the Conservatives would win by about 340 to 240 over Labour.david_herdson said:
Correct on all points.foxinsoxuk said:
I think the cult of youth in politics has gone too far, even allowing for the fact that the PM is younger than me.Innocent_Abroad said:
I'd expect far more voters to see Jerry C as too old than as too leftuous or as improperly dressed.foxinsoxuk said:
Beards are back in fashion with the hipsters. We may have to wait a little longer for them to adopt corduroy!Plato said:Just the sort of *change* candidate that Tories would ABSOLUTELY love to see.
The beard is fine too, and the corduroy.Jonathan said:Corbyn is having a good campaign. He is arguably the most articulate of the bunch so far and is seemingly able to present himself as the change candidate.
Obviously the Tories don't like him because he has a beard and can't see past that. But that really doesn't matter in this election.
Apart from Corbyn all of the Lab leadership candidates are in their early 40s. If we want government by people who have a bit of life experience before they entered national politics then we need older politicians who are relatively fresh to parliament, so not too much part of the machine.
Corbyns age and beard are fine. It is his Syrizia-lite politics that is the problem.
Corbyn's politics will turn off the centre in droves. Some people might like him in the way they liked George Galloway or Tony Benn once in a while and when they were giving it to the political establishment and broadly harmless but it's a different matter if they're within a sniff of power. See Michael Foot for details.
And parliament would be greatly improved if it had a much wider cross-section of the population represented, from late entrants to earlier ones.0 -
I agree with OGH that Burnham's Sun statement make him unelectable as a PM.
Add in the loony leftie Corbyn and we have two liabilities for the party. They may probably be the final two contenders in the vote.
Vote for Leftie or Loony Leftie.
Dumb or Dumber.0 -
Sounds like a very dodgy charity all round really, the financial noises being reported would make me very worried to have been a doner.Financier said:More political favours by Gordon?
Britain's most high-profile children's charity chief was facing fresh pressure last night over an unpaid £700,000 tax bill which was mysteriously waived by the then Chancellor Gordon Brown.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3157634/Mystery-charity-s-unpaid-700-000-tax-bill-Kids-Company-took-money-staff-waived-taxman-Chancellor-Gordon-Brown.html
Also, this:
She claims she is being forced to leaving because she told Ministers that she has a list of Establishment figures involved in historical child sex abuse
Now, I don't follow this, because first if she has such a list she should just hand it to the police and the government wouldn't touch her for fear of looking like they were punishing her for just that reason. Second, the implication being that Ministers don't want such a list coming out? If true, then surely they wouldn't force her out in case she leaked it. If not true, as I would certainly hope, they'd want her to provide those names to the authorities. Either way, I don't see why they would force her out for having such a list.0 -
In a couple of centuries time people reading history books will be unable to understand why the UK establishment were hellbent on destroying their own countryPlato said:And someone's having a bad Sunday morning. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/11733968/By-day-at-heart-of-counter-terror-policing.-And-by-night-preacher-of-extremism.html
For almost two years Abdullah al Andalusi, led a double life, the Telegraph can reveal.
By night, he taught that the terror group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) was “no different to Western armies,” said that “kaffirs,” non-Muslims, would be “punished in hell” and claimed that the British government wanted to destroy Islam.
By day, using a different name, he went to work for the same British government at the London offices of Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC), the official regulator of all 44 forces in England, Wales and Northern Ireland.
The disclosures will be intensely embarassing to the Prime Minister, David Cameron, who has criticised parts of Britain’s Muslim communities for “quietly condoning” Islamist extremism.
HMIC’s staff, who number less than 150, are given privileged access to highly sensitive and classified police and intelligence information to carry out their inspections.0 -
You Gov provide more evidence that its better to say I'm a piano player in a brothel.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11726039/Your-ideal-son-or-daughter-in-law-Anything-but-an-MP-YouGov-poll-reveals.html0 -
I just don't see Kendall as some automatic Blair-type election winner, even Blair also shored up his left flank when elected on areas like the minimum wage, the levy on the privatised utilities, ending of assisted places, adopting the social chapter etc in a way Kendall has not. Corbyn, I agree, would be far too leftwing for most floating voters and the most leftwing Labour leader since Foot and on some issues further left even than him.CD13 said:
If Burnham were tacking left to beat Corbyn, Labour are in big trouble.
I think it's just politicking to be all things to all men (and women). I don't think Ed came over as too left, despite the Tories claims. Too gormless ... yes, but that's a different matter.
With Burnham and Cooper, Labour will get Ed without the obvious gaffes. With Corbyn, they'll have Animal Farm writ large, and with Liz, they'll have a Blair-type election winner.
I don't vote Labour anymore so I wouldn't dare to give advice. But it looks like Burnham as the comfort blanket. Change but not too much.
In fact Burnham has even higher favourables amongst the public as a whole than Kendall. ORB has him on +14%, Kendall +6%, Cooper -6%, Corbyn -15%
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-andy-burnham-considered-the-contender-most-likely-to-improve-partys-general-election-chances-10340208.html0
