politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » We should take a David Miliband comeback seriously…it reall
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They are going to elect Ed take 2 aren't they.TheScreamingEagles said:Jez We Can
@DavidLammy: I won't be voting @Corbyn4Leader but I've nominated him because the next Labour leader should be chosen by members and supporters, not MPs.
They need to be a bit more Night's watch and a bit less Stannis's army.
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I think the British wouldn't allow brazen people smuggling to happen in full daylight on its soil. If France isn't willing to detain these people openly breaking into British lorries on its soil then they must surely accept someone else should do it.rcs1000 said:
I think we'd probably say "no", if the French asked us if they could put their agents at Dover.JEO said:
I read earlier today that the UK has several times requested to be able to deploy our own agents in Calais, given the French don't do their jobs. France has turned down this request several times. Seems like the sort of thing Cameron should add on to our EU negotiations. This problem will only get worse as more and more asylum seekers come from Libya, Syria and Iraq - and who knows what will be the next Middle Eastern country to collapse.Financier said:
Interesting the currently Franceis turning back refugees/emigrants at the coastal French/Italian border and sending them back to Italy!JEO said:
That's good to know. However, you can be pro-immigration but believe it should happen through legal channels rather than through smuggling, as I am. I find it quite shocking how they can climb onto lorries so openly and in plain view. The French authorities do not seem to be making any effort to regulate it at all. It seems funny how the UK gets lectured on EU 'solidarity' when France acts like this.TheScreamingEagles said:
He would never do that, he's nearly as pro-immigration as Robert and I, which is saying a lot.JEO said:
I hope he's not referring to these:TheScreamingEagles said:@MSmithsonPB: Been stuck on Eurostar train at Channel Tunnel entrance for nearly an hour. Reason - animals on the line after Calais.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=syyl0gfNDRE
And I think the reason is that it would look politically awful (i.e. a breach of sovereignty) to have some other country's officials working on your soil. The first time a French citizen was treated badly by a British customs agent on French soil would be on the front page of Le Monde.
Another option would be for us to put every illegal immigrant that comes in via Calais on a lorry and send it straight back to France.0 -
If we polled who was more popular, who would win ?TGOHF said:
They are going to elect Ed take 2 aren't they.TheScreamingEagles said:Jez We Can
@DavidLammy: I won't be voting @Corbyn4Leader but I've nominated him because the next Labour leader should be chosen by members and supporters, not MPs.
They need to be a bit more Night's watch and a bit less Stannis's army.
Ed or Joffrey?0 -
If Ed was Joffrey - the jumped up little boy. Does that mean AB = Ramsay Bolton ?TheScreamingEagles said:
If we polled who was more popular, who would win ?TGOHF said:
They are going to elect Ed take 2 aren't they.TheScreamingEagles said:Jez We Can
@DavidLammy: I won't be voting @Corbyn4Leader but I've nominated him because the next Labour leader should be chosen by members and supporters, not MPs.
They need to be a bit more Night's watch and a bit less Stannis's army.
Ed or Joffrey?
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@faisalislam: No retreat from starkey on SNP: says it's "virulently nationalistic" & "civic" nationalism a figleaf or "a jockstrap" http://t.co/Hs27n4Odlb0
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From David Miliband's point of view, he did the decent thing getting out of his brother's way. Now there's nothing preventing him from returning. If the new leader disappoints and he's become an MP, he would be a contender.Tissue_Price said:On topic, I agree with others that David is not the answer for Labour. However I don't think David concurs, and thus the 7/1 William Hill are offering that he is an MP before the next General Election is worth taking.
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Anecdotal - 90% of political posts on Facebook go down terribly. Scrapping the HRA and replacing with British Bill of rights is well in the other 10%.
A very popular move methinks.0 -
One last push...TGOHF said:
They are going to elect Ed take 2 aren't they.TheScreamingEagles said:Jez We Can
@DavidLammy: I won't be voting @Corbyn4Leader but I've nominated him because the next Labour leader should be chosen by members and supporters, not MPs.
They need to be a bit more Night's watch and a bit less Stannis's army.0 -
Starkey borrows Malcom Bruce and Michael White's golden spade and heads for Australia:
http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#_@/TL4oW35UmfqY4g0 -
I'd vote for Liz Kendall and I haven't been partial to Labour since about 1999.0
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Seconded.Fenster said:I'd vote for Liz Kendall and I haven't been partial to Labour since about 1999.
It will be interesting to hear what she has to say in the coming weeks, but she appears to represent Labour's best chance of coming close to the Conservatives in 2020.
I would love to know the question to which the answer is David Miliband, the worst foreign secretary in living memory.0 -
I would say Andy/Yvette were more continuity Ed. Jeremy is left of the field still.TOPPING said:
One last push...TGOHF said:
They are going to elect Ed take 2 aren't they.TheScreamingEagles said:Jez We Can
@DavidLammy: I won't be voting @Corbyn4Leader but I've nominated him because the next Labour leader should be chosen by members and supporters, not MPs.
They need to be a bit more Night's watch and a bit less Stannis's army.
I've sold out my Corbyn position on the hype.0 -
Starkey just about caused the PC Beeboids to have a meltdown on R5 this morning.calum said:Starkey borrows Malcom Bruce and Michael White's golden spade and heads for Australia:
http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#_@/TL4oW35UmfqY4g
Are the SNP nationalist ? Yes . Are they socialist ? Yes. Ergo... was the rub of his argument
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It's certainly hard to see a worse backdrop for the next Labour leader, whoever he or she is, than the current speculation about Miliband Snr (speculation which is, pace Keiran Pedley, the stuff of political satire, not reality), and the rather more significant calls by senior Labour figures for an easier means to ditch the leader. In other words, the next leader is already being set up to fail.
Talking of which, look at this horrendous affront to grammar:
http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/leadership0 -
Mother intensely dislikes Lucy V!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Toms, when Lucy Verasamy presents the weather forecast it always has my full attention.
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I haven't encountered so much aspiration since I last heard Eliza Doolittle enunciate about hurricanes in Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire.Richard_Nabavi said:It's certainly hard to see a worse backdrop for the next Labour leader, whoever he or she is, than the current speculation about Miliband Snr (speculation which is, pace Keiran Pedley, the stuff of political satire, not reality), and the rather more significant calls by senior Labour figures for an easier means to ditch the leader. In other words, the next leader is already being set up to fail.
Talking of which, look at this horrendous affront to grammar:
http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/leadership0 -
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Hi all. Thanks for the comments. Fair to say a degree of scepticism here. I do still think that if he choose to come back that will change. Rightly or wrongly I think he has credibility with the public as the 'right brother' though I won't rewrite my article here.
And regardless of the leadership, why shouldn't D Milibad return at least in some capacity? Are we saying his defeat to Ed in 2010 should end his political career yet Ed should have the chance of a comeback?
Interested in people's thoughts.0 -
A downward arrow ?Scott_P said:@paulwaugh: .@YvetteCooperMP has her very own logo. http://t.co/uJ3zMWOpgq
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Has someone got the latest deputy nominations? Not sure if the NS is up to the minute?0
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I can see this as a running theme - Starkey lives to be controversial and doesn't care what anyone thinks of him. It will certainly be interesting to watch how the more excitable wing of Scottish nationalists react to him, they need to be very careful about the words they use in response.TGOHF said:
Starkey just about caused the PC Beeboids to have a meltdown on R5 this morning.calum said:Starkey borrows Malcom Bruce and Michael White's golden spade and heads for Australia:
http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#_@/TL4oW35UmfqY4g
Are the SNP nationalist ? Yes . Are they socialist ? Yes. Ergo... was the rub of his argument0 -
I think that is almost right, but it won't be presented like that. Because of the massive political capital invested in The Project, to save face the restructuring will be presented as the UK and other non-Eurozone countries remaining as 'full members' of the EU, whilst the Eurozone becomes as you say more like a country.rcs1000 said:I don't believe it is possible to square the circle between the EU and the Eurozone. Essentially, I don't see how a satisfactory arrangement can be worked out between the two groups of countries: they will be pushing ahead for integration, and will regard us as standing in their way. We will feel that the EU is being run for the Eurozone and not for all its members.
As a result, it's hard to see how ourselves, the Swedes and possibly the Danes can remain a part of the EU (Denmark is different, in that they still have the Krona, but have an essentially permanent peg to the Euro).
It would be better we (and the other EU leaders) recognised this issue now, and organised a velvet divorce. I would suggest that the non-Eurozone members become Associate EU members, which remain part of the single market (like EFTA/EEA), but just like with Norway or Switzerland, are not subject to EU regulation on working conditions, or the like. We remove ourselves from the CAP and from the bulk of the contributions (which should instead be between Eurozone members).
Such an outcome, whereby we reamin in the Single Market and, crucially, retain the right to protect our interests in the EU but are not bound by the Eurozone integration, is the best possible outcome IMO - a great prize, if we can engineer it. There's many a slip, though.0 -
If David Miliband is to return to the frontline of British politics, the question that he has to answer which he has so far not attempted to address is why he would not work with his own brother, preferring to leave Parliament and indeed to leave the country. If he had accepted a senior role under his brother, he would still be in the first rank of Labour politicians. And who knows, Labour might have done considerably better last month.Keiranpedley said:Hi all. Thanks for the comments. Fair to say a degree of scepticism here. I do still think that if he choose to come back that will change. Rightly or wrongly I think he has credibility with the public as the 'right brother' though I won't rewrite my article here.
And regardless of the leadership, why shouldn't D Milibad return at least in some capacity? Are we saying his defeat to Ed in 2010 should end his political career yet Ed should have the chance of a comeback?
Interested in people's thoughts.
It was not losing in 2010 that finished David Miliband's career, it was his response to defeat that did so.0 -
Hi Keiran, thanks for the article.Keiranpedley said:Hi all. Thanks for the comments. Fair to say a degree of scepticism here. I do still think that if he choose to come back that will change. Rightly or wrongly I think he has credibility with the public as the 'right brother' though I won't rewrite my article here.
And regardless of the leadership, why shouldn't D Milibad return at least in some capacity? Are we saying his defeat to Ed in 2010 should end his political career yet Ed should have the chance of a comeback?
Interested in people's thoughts.
I'm not sure that anyone objects to or thinks that Miliband (D) shouldn't return to politics, but the idea he might return straight to the front line within weeks of Ed's defeat looks a lot like he's jumping on his brother's (metaphorical) grave.
He should do an IDS and come back a few years down the line with a big idea that's been thought through that he can offer the party - but if he wants to do this he should find himself a seat to campaign for 2020 rather than parachuting himself straight back via a stitched-up by-election.0 -
I just caught up with Charlie Brooker's GE2015 wipe, Starkey would've fitted right in, unfortunately he's being serious. For what its worth the SNP are a nationalist centrist party, not many socialist parties out there considering policies like cutting corporation tax to encourage firms to set up in Scotland etc.TGOHF said:
Starkey just about caused the PC Beeboids to have a meltdown on R5 this morning.calum said:Starkey borrows Malcom Bruce and Michael White's golden spade and heads for Australia:
http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#_@/TL4oW35UmfqY4g
Are the SNP nationalist ? Yes . Are they socialist ? Yes. Ergo... was the rub of his argument0 -
Stitched up by-elections don't always turn out as hoped.Sandpit said:
Hi Keiran, thanks for the article.Keiranpedley said:Hi all. Thanks for the comments. Fair to say a degree of scepticism here. I do still think that if he choose to come back that will change. Rightly or wrongly I think he has credibility with the public as the 'right brother' though I won't rewrite my article here.
And regardless of the leadership, why shouldn't D Milibad return at least in some capacity? Are we saying his defeat to Ed in 2010 should end his political career yet Ed should have the chance of a comeback?
Interested in people's thoughts.
I'm not sure that anyone objects to or thinks that Miliband (D) shouldn't return to politics, but the idea he might return straight to the front line within weeks of Ed's defeat looks a lot like he's jumping on his brother's (metaphorical) grave.
He should do an IDS and come back a few years down the line with a big idea that's been thought through that he can offer the party - but if he wants to do this he should find himself a seat to campaign for 2020 rather than parachuting himself straight back via a stitched-up by-election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyton_by-election,_19650 -
You explain matter this very well.Richard_Nabavi said:
I think that is almost right, but it won't be presented like that. Because of the massive political capital invested in The Project, to save face the restructuring will be presented as the UK and other non-Eurozone countries remaining as 'full members' of the EU, whilst the Eurozone becomes as you say more like a country.
Such an outcome, whereby we reamin in the Single Market and, crucially, retain the right to protect our interests in the EU but are not bound by the Eurozone integration, is the best possible outcome IMO - a great prize, if we can engineer it. There's many a slip, though.
That would be my ideal, and I strongly suspect that of a large majority of the British people.
However if I had to make a forced choice between the UK joining the United States of Europe and BOO then I would want to see a lot more evidence from both points of view before making a choice. For me personally, both of these extremes are highly undesirable.0 -
Calum, if the SNP are a nationalist centrist party, why would Nicola only be prepared to form a Govt with a left leaning Labour party, rather than a right leaning Conservative one?calum said:
I just caught up with Charlie Brooker's GE2015 wipe, Starkey would've fitted right in, unfortunately he's being serious. For what its worth the SNP are a nationalist centrist party, not many socialist parties out there considering policies like cutting corporation tax to encourage firms to set up in Scotland etc.TGOHF said:
Starkey just about caused the PC Beeboids to have a meltdown on R5 this morning.calum said:Starkey borrows Malcom Bruce and Michael White's golden spade and heads for Australia:
http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#_@/TL4oW35UmfqY4g
Are the SNP nationalist ? Yes . Are they socialist ? Yes. Ergo... was the rub of his argument
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State over free enterprise = socialism.calum said:
I just caught up with Charlie Brooker's GE2015 wipe, Starkey would've fitted right in, unfortunately he's being serious. For what its worth the SNP are a nationalist centrist party, not many socialist parties out there considering policies like cutting corporation tax to encourage firms to set up in Scotland etc.TGOHF said:
Starkey just about caused the PC Beeboids to have a meltdown on R5 this morning.calum said:Starkey borrows Malcom Bruce and Michael White's golden spade and heads for Australia:
http://order-order.com/2015/06/15/david-starkey-snp-prove-democracy-does-not-work/#_@/TL4oW35UmfqY4g
Are the SNP nationalist ? Yes . Are they socialist ? Yes. Ergo... was the rub of his argument
Drag the rich down to raise the feckless = socialism
Nanny state puritanical crackdown = socialism
As for corporation tax cuts in Scotland - yes there have been a few recently. All by George Osborne - none by the SNP.
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True. Just look at how desperately the UK establishment tried to stay in the EC monster of the ERM. It may take the markets to eventually dictate some sense into the EC project lovers. But that could be after a lot of financial and economic distress.Richard_Nabavi said:
I think that is almost right, but it won't be presented like that. Because of the massive political capital invested in The Project, to save face the restructuring will be presented as the UK and other non-Eurozone countries remaining as 'full members' of the EU, whilst the Eurozone becomes as you say more like a country.rcs1000 said:I don't believe it is possible to square the circle between the EU and the Eurozone. Essentially, I don't see how a satisfactory arrangement can be worked out between the two groups of countries: they will be pushing ahead for integration, and will regard us as standing in their way. We will feel that the EU is being run for the Eurozone and not for all its members.
As a result, it's hard to see how ourselves, the Swedes and possibly the Danes can remain a part of the EU (Denmark is different, in that they still have the Krona, but have an essentially permanent peg to the Euro).
It would be better we (and the other EU leaders) recognised this issue now, and organised a velvet divorce. I would suggest that the non-Eurozone members become Associate EU members, which remain part of the single market (like EFTA/EEA), but just like with Norway or Switzerland, are not subject to EU regulation on working conditions, or the like. We remove ourselves from the CAP and from the bulk of the contributions (which should instead be between Eurozone members).
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Again, Prezza had it right.Keiranpedley said:Hi all. Thanks for the comments. Fair to say a degree of scepticism here. I do still think that if he choose to come back that will change. Rightly or wrongly I think he has credibility with the public as the 'right brother' though I won't rewrite my article here.
And regardless of the leadership, why shouldn't D Milibad return at least in some capacity? Are we saying his defeat to Ed in 2010 should end his political career yet Ed should have the chance of a comeback?
Interested in people's thoughts.
DMilliband is an internecine combatant, which is redolent of Blair/Brown, who f&&&&d the country, which is why Lab/the UK should run a mile from him.0 -
David Milliband is yesterday's man, just as Burnham and Cooper are indelibly linked to the Blair/Brown years.
I should be a die hard Labour voter, born and raised in a council house, I'm a striking FBU member, middle aged, wwc, with kids either just starting university, or taking courses leading up to university, Labour should be my vote of choice.
They ain't, because they are getting stuck in the past. They've genuinely alienated people like me, with fantasy progressive policies, and loading themselves up with PPE qualified spads, candidates, supporters and nepotist candidates like Kinnock, Rowenna Davies, Polly bloody Toynbee, Owen Jones and the like.
It's cringe worthy, watching Labour crying and bleating about how the country has ended up with a Cameron majority. The leadership candidates, 3 of whom were actively involved with the Blair/Brown years, and all of them who followed Ed Milliband so slavishly, now want us to believe that they'e had an epiphany, and that the past is a different country, and they now understand what people like me want out of life.
The country needs a sensible leftwing party. The current Labour party ain't it.0 -
Offtopic, but looks like it might be about to overshadow everything.
"Europe tells Greeks to prepare for 'state of emergency' as talks collapse in acrimony.
"Eleventh hour bail-out talks last just 45 minutes as Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras is accused of "swindling the world" with his demands"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11674609/Greek-talks-break-down-live.html0 -
Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
I agree with all of this. Only piece that's missing is on sovereign borders.rcs1000 said:
I think a lot depends on what happens to Greece after it falls out the Euro (if it falls out the Euro).antifrank said:If Greece leaves the Euro, David Cameron's hand in Britain's negotiations with the EU would be greatly strengthened. The EU hierarchy would not want the EU to look as though it is crumbling so it would not wish to have a second grievous blow so soon. So David Cameron could push much harder.
It is true also that if a deal is reached with Greece then David Cameron's negotiating position is weakened, but not to the same extent. Losing Britain would be a grievous blow for the EU all by itself.
The most likely outcome of a traumatic end for Greece in the Euro, is that the Eurozone ends up becoming ever more tightly entwined. "To stop this happening again, we much strengthen the bonds, etc etc." This, of course, makes it increasingly hard for those members of the EU that are not members of the Eurozone.
The - as I've said many time before - Eurozone is going to look more and more like a country. There will be fiscal transfers between the various parts. There will be common Eurozone debt. And, in time, Eurozone MEPs will in the European Parliament will start to exercise democratic oversight of the running of the Eurozone.
I don't believe it is possible to square the circle between the EU and the Eurozone. Essentially, I don't see how a satisfactory arrangement can be worked out between the two groups of countries: they will be pushing ahead for integration, and will regard us as standing in their way. We will feel that the EU is being run for the Eurozone and not for all its members.
As a result, it's hard to see how ourselves, the Swedes and possibly the Danes can remain a part of the EU (Denmark is different, in that they still have the Krona, but have an essentially permanent peg to the Euro).
It would be better we (and the other EU leaders) recognised this issue now, and organised a velvet divorce. I would suggest that the non-Eurozone members become Associate EU members, which remain part of the single market (like EFTA/EEA), but just like with Norway or Switzerland, are not subject to EU regulation on working conditions, or the like. We remove ourselves from the CAP and from the bulk of the contributions (which should instead be between Eurozone members).
Free movement of people sounds good but when it means surrendering to semi-permanent mass immigration to sustain it, it starts to look like dogma.
Sensible limits must be in place, and allowed to be put in place.0 -
He needs five now to encourage last minute switchers.TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
Two press conferences going on now regarding Greece.
EU Commission is holding their daily briefing.
http://ec.europa.eu/avservices/ebs/live.cfm
Greek briefing
http://webtv.ert.gr/ert1-live/
The Commission briefing is in English.0 -
Completely off topic: If you have a money-purchase pension scheme, especially one run by your employer, you should read this FT article, available for free here:
http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2015/6/12/why-pension-lifestyling-could-be-the-next-mis-selling-scandal
I'm not so sure about the mis-selling bit, but the core message that many pensions are invested in 'lifestyle' funds that might not be suitable for everyone is spot-on.0 -
Stephen Bush @stephenkb 1m1 minute ago
Margaret Beckett nominates Jeremy Corbyn: He's on 30.
I reckon this is a done deal now - Corbyn finishing on 33/34 is the worst possible result all round0 -
Certainly while lifestyled funds were most appropriate for the old annuity-focussed regime, I am far from convinced they do not represent a useful default. Even if that default does not work for everybody. The fundamental idea - that younger people can ride more peaks and troughs - remains sound.Richard_Nabavi said:Completely off topic: If you have a money-purchase pension scheme, especially one run by your employer, you should read this FT article, available for free here:
http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2015/6/12/why-pension-lifestyling-could-be-the-next-mis-selling-scandal
I'm not so sure about the mis-selling bit, but the core message that many pensions are invested in 'lifestyle' funds that might not be suitable for everyone is spot-on.0 -
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
"Corbyn in last-minute bid to be completely ignored"
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/corbyn-in-last-minute-bid-to-be-completely-ignored-2015061599263Several MPs have suggested they will nominate Corbyn despite having no intention of backing him for leader, insisting they enjoy the idea of a ‘fair society’ in the same way as they enjoy Star Wars.
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SLAB really are in trouble when they might end up with a councillor as deputy leader.
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/gordon-matheson-seeks-labour-deputy-job-210320n.1289723550 -
Looks like there has been a late "progressive swing" with those with most nominations sharing with the undernominated.TheScreamingEagles said:
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.
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You can have "Corgasm" for free.TheScreamingEagles said:
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
Corbyn Laden vs the Labour Taliban ?Tissue_Price said:
You can have "Corgasm" for free.TheScreamingEagles said:
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.
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60/56/37/30 gives 186... plenty more nominations for Corbyn.0
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Jez another manic Monday.TheScreamingEagles said:
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
williamglenn said:
Jez another manic Monday.TheScreamingEagles said:
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
Christ, that's awful. The one piece of New Labour that seems to have stuck with all Labour politicians since is the dreadful butchering of the English language. Not to mention totally meaningless guff.Richard_Nabavi said:It's certainly hard to see a worse backdrop for the next Labour leader, whoever he or she is, than the current speculation about Miliband Snr (speculation which is, pace Keiran Pedley, the stuff of political satire, not reality), and the rather more significant calls by senior Labour figures for an easier means to ditch the leader. In other words, the next leader is already being set up to fail.
Talking of which, look at this horrendous affront to grammar:
http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/leadership
If I were a Labour Party member, I'd vote for the candidate willing to have their campaign literature stamped by the campaign for plain English.
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I think we have a winnerTGOHF said:
Corbyn Laden vs the Labour Taliban ?Tissue_Price said:
You can have "Corgasm" for free.TheScreamingEagles said:
Bugger, I've already half written the afternoon thread, headlined "Jez We Can"TGOHF said:Corbyn just failing to get on the ballot is another headache - cue much gnashing of teeth by "activists" at MPs.
Looks like he might struggle to get the 35.0 -
Corbyn makes the ballot, they lose; Corbyn fails to make the ballot, they lose. But which is worse for the party?0
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My Zac Goldsmith piece made it on to John Rentoul's QTWTAIN list.
I'm so proud.0 -
I feel I'm in a parallel universe. Corbyn up as potential Labour leader??TheWhiteRabbit said:
Corbyn makes the ballot, they lose; Corbyn fails to make the ballot, they lose. But which is worse for the party?
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Pitches for deputy leadership:
Tom Watson: "Tom's all Labour"
Stella Creasy: "Stella Creasy is standing for deputy leader because she wants Labour to win."
What guff.
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No bonds in my pension !Richard_Nabavi said:Completely off topic: If you have a money-purchase pension scheme, especially one run by your employer, you should read this FT article, available for free here:
http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2015/6/12/why-pension-lifestyling-could-be-the-next-mis-selling-scandal
I'm not so sure about the mis-selling bit, but the core message that many pensions are invested in 'lifestyle' funds that might not be suitable for everyone is spot-on.
Shame this one wasn't issued after the GE though D; http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/wasps-bonds-65-interest--55901680 -
If the race turns into an auction for Corbyn's second-preferences then Kendall's earlier positioning on the right will make it easier for her to offer some red meat without being seen as a union puppet.TheWhiteRabbit said:Corbyn makes the ballot, they lose; Corbyn fails to make the ballot, they lose. But which is worse for the party?
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Could work for her. I think Burnham and Cooper will have to distance themselves, could end up in no man's land.williamglenn said:
If the race turns into an auction for Corbyn's second-preferences then Kendall's earlier positioning on the right will make it easier for her to offer some red meat without being seen as a union puppet.TheWhiteRabbit said:Corbyn makes the ballot, they lose; Corbyn fails to make the ballot, they lose. But which is worse for the party?
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Just been watching Inside The Midland Hotel C5, where Labour held their last conference. EdM now looks like such an odd ball. Even more so now we know how his speech worked out and the GE result.0
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What is the point in running the deputy race at all, and particularly at the same time as the leadership?
There's a strong likelihood that Labour might end up with a leader and deputy who have very different views on the country, and even might not work well with each other. Like Balls and Miliband, except the latter actually chose the former.
I could understand it if the leader was picked, and then there was a deputy contest. But it seems very strange, and potentially dangerous, to do it this way.
It'll be interesting to watch how it pans out.0 -
@paulwaugh: Just asked @YvetteCooperMP if she recognises phrase 'Tony Taliban' (aka New Labour diehards):"No. [It's] not one I use." Smiles.
@SebastianEPayne: Update on "Taliban New Labour" remarks: a source on Team Burnham says the comments came from Yvette Cooper's team #Labourleadership0 -
A very difficult and tragic case for the judge to rule on:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33114655
I think the court made the right decision, but I can see how the maternal grandparents feel. Hopefully contact will be maintained with them.0 -
There's a problem if you want them to share a vision for the country, there's a problem if you want them to get on well together, and there's a problem if you - say - are ideologically committed to one of them being a woman. Or from the North/South, or whatever.JosiasJessop said:What is the point in running the deputy race at all, and particularly at the same time as the leadership?
There's a strong likelihood that Labour might end up with a leader and deputy who have very different views on the country, and even might not work well with each other. Like Balls and Miliband, except the latter actually chose the former.
I could understand it if the leader was picked, and then there was a deputy contest. But it seems very strange, and potentially dangerous, to do it this way.
It'll be interesting to watch how it pans out.0 -
OT Interesting follow up to the Commission briefing on Greece. Now a briefing on the Italian migration crisis.
Quick summary:
Italy has protested that the French, Swiss and Austrian governments are turning back migrants at the Italian border. The Commission is looking into this.
Italy is also saying it won't accept migrants who have been picked up by the relief effort in the Mediterranean into Italian ports and they have repeated the threat of issuing temporary visas to migrants to allow them to move around Europe if relocation plans are not agreed.
Commission proposing a mandatory relocation system for migrants to ease the pressure on Italy
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...fewer than two out of ten of ordinary Conservative party members would vote for the UK to leave the EU regardless of whatever reforms Prime Minister David Cameron manages to obtain in the run-up to a referendum. In marked contrast, nearly two-thirds of them say that their vote depends on the outcome of negotiations, while one in five say they would vote to stay in the EU no matter what.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11674871/Only-15-per-cent-of-Conservative-party-members-would-vote-to-leave-the-EU.html0 -
Please Let Corbyn get into the debates..I really want to listen to his lefty nonsense on national TV0
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Kinda obvious.CarlottaVance said:...fewer than two out of ten of ordinary Conservative party members would vote for the UK to leave the EU regardless of whatever reforms Prime Minister David Cameron manages to obtain in the run-up to a referendum. In marked contrast, nearly two-thirds of them say that their vote depends on the outcome of negotiations, while one in five say they would vote to stay in the EU no matter what.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11674871/Only-15-per-cent-of-Conservative-party-members-would-vote-to-leave-the-EU.html
A large chunk will say (a) that the negotiations have failed or (b) they have succeeded regardless of what Cameron actually gets. After all, who would say "they have succeeded, but we should leave anyway"? It bleeds into your idea of "success".0 -
I'm going to write a guest thread headlined "Can John Rentoul resist adding this headline to his list?"TheScreamingEagles said:My Zac Goldsmith piece made it on to John Rentoul's QTWTAIN list.
I'm so proud.0 -
I want to see how his hairshirt Puritism goes down too. I met him back in 2009, and what a mirthless po-face he was.
And see him talk about Israel...richardDodd said:Please Let Corbyn get into the debates..I really want to listen to his lefty nonsense on national TV
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Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.0 -
Surely trade unions.TheScreamingEagles said:
Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.0 -
Luke James @LEJ88 - Deputy leadership candidate Rushanara Ali has just nominated #Corbyn4Leader. Jeremy is just 3 short now. Less than 15 minutes to go.
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"Trades union" would indicate a union of trades, like the Trades Union Congress.TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.
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I was thinking it might be along the same line as the plural of Solicitor General/Court Martial, which are Solicitors General and Courts MartialPlato said:Surely trade unions.
TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.0 -
Simon Heffer says it depends on context, either Trade Unions, or Trades Unions (but not Trades Union):TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.
Some authorities, chiefly in the UK, suggest that the plural of trade union is trade unions when the relevant unions all represent the same trade (for example, "The teachers in the school were divided between two trade unions."), but trades unions when they represent different trades (for example, "There are hundreds of trades unions in England."). However, trade unions is commonly used for both cases.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trade_union#cite_note-10 -
Thank you.CarlottaVance said:
Simon Heffer says it depends on context:TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.
Some authorities, chiefly in the UK, suggest that the plural of trade union is trade unions when the relevant unions all represent the same trade (for example, "The teachers in the school were divided between two trade unions."), but trades unions when they represent different trades (for example, "There are hundreds of trades unions in England."). However, trade unions is commonly used for both cases.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trade_union#cite_note-10 -
Casino_Royale,
The Tory backbench group demanded three things from the renegotiation:
- Control of immigration
- Ability to sign our own trade deals
- A red card from UK parliament to stop EU legislation
The third one seems like being too aggressive, but the first two both seem like great ideas.0 -
In early US presidential elections the winner became President and the runner-up became Vice-President. (There were no Parties, or "Tickets" in those days)JosiasJessop said:What is the point in running the deputy race at all, and particularly at the same time as the leadership?
There's a strong likelihood that Labour might end up with a leader and deputy who have very different views on the country, and even might not work well with each other. Like Balls and Miliband, except the latter actually chose the former.
Imagine running that system today - you would need very strong security for the President ...0 -
Is there some sort of liveblog for Corbyn and his nominations ? I need to know whether to lay at 75s or try for shorter...0
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Kind of weird way of presenting it. Surely '2 in 10' and '1 in 5' are the same thing. Why use different wording for two groups who are effectively equally balanced in their amount of support?CarlottaVance said:...fewer than two out of ten of ordinary Conservative party members would vote for the UK to leave the EU regardless of whatever reforms Prime Minister David Cameron manages to obtain in the run-up to a referendum. In marked contrast, nearly two-thirds of them say that their vote depends on the outcome of negotiations, while one in five say they would vote to stay in the EU no matter what.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11674871/Only-15-per-cent-of-Conservative-party-members-would-vote-to-leave-the-EU.html0 -
Solicitor General etc are the product of a French-style noun-adjective combo. Can't say that about Trade Union (a noun adjunct I think?)TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking it might be along the same line as the plural of Solicitor General/Court Martial, which are Solicitors General and Courts MartialPlato said:Surely trade unions.
TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.0 -
Twitter and the Guardian live blog are what I've been usingPulpstar said:Is there some sort of liveblog for Corbyn and his nominations ? I need to know whether to lay at 75s or try for shorter...
http://bit.ly/1TnghL70 -
Tories4Jeremy: Get ready for actionSimonStClare said:Luke James @LEJ88 - Deputy leadership candidate Rushanara Ali has just nominated #Corbyn4Leader. Jeremy is just 3 short now. Less than 15 minutes to go.
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Appeared to have been backers at 40s earlier... dunnoPulpstar said:Is there some sort of liveblog for Corbyn and his nominations ? I need to know whether to lay at 75s or try for shorter...
What price if he makes the ballot?0 -
We are The £3 Tories...Richard_Nabavi said:
Tories4Jeremy: Get ready for actionSimonStClare said:Luke James @LEJ88 - Deputy leadership candidate Rushanara Ali has just nominated #Corbyn4Leader. Jeremy is just 3 short now. Less than 15 minutes to go.
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@paulwaugh: Corbyn now v close. Has 33 with Neil Coyle0
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Paul Waugh✔@paulwaugh - Corbyn now v close. Has 33 with Neil Coyle0
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Invite to the Venezuelan regime ready...Plato said:We are The £3 Tories...
Richard_Nabavi said:
Tories4Jeremy: Get ready for actionSimonStClare said:Luke James @LEJ88 - Deputy leadership candidate Rushanara Ali has just nominated #Corbyn4Leader. Jeremy is just 3 short now. Less than 15 minutes to go.
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I'm resisting the urge to spend this stint as Guest Editor to do a daily thread telling Labour supporters why they must back JeremyRichard_Nabavi said:
Tories4Jeremy: Get ready for actionSimonStClare said:Luke James @LEJ88 - Deputy leadership candidate Rushanara Ali has just nominated #Corbyn4Leader. Jeremy is just 3 short now. Less than 15 minutes to go.
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2 minutes to go0
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TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking it might be along the same line as the plural of Solicitor General/Court Martial, which are Solicitors General and Courts MartialPlato said:Surely trade unions.
TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.
The plural is still on the noun though. The words General/Martial are the adjective in thoses case.
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That makes senseTheWhiteRabbit said:
Solicitor General etc are the product of a French-style noun-adjective combo. Can't say that about Trade Union (a noun adjunct I think?)TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking it might be along the same line as the plural of Solicitor General/Court Martial, which are Solicitors General and Courts MartialPlato said:Surely trade unions.
TheScreamingEagles said:Paging my fellow grammar pedants.
What is the plural of Trade Union?
Is is Trades Union? or Trades Unions? Or something else.0 -
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 1m1 minute ago
Surreal situation here: 4 MPs in PLP office waiting for Corbyn to hit 34 to help him over line: inc @tom_watson Gareth Thomas0 -
Paul Waugh @paulwaugh 1m1 minute ago
Surreal situation here: 4 MPs in PLP office waiting for Corbyn to hit 34 to help him over line: inc @tom_watson Gareth Thomas
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Boo - @MSmithsonPB: @TSEofPB PB house style is that we no longer use questions as post headers0
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"Trade unions" is mandatory, if ungrammatical. Anything else has the whiff of "It is I".0
