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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The government should accept the SNP’s demands for FFA
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The government should accept the SNP’s demands for FFA
The referendum was never going to be the end of the story and neither was the declaration of the unionist parties to implement the recommendations of the Smith commission. The closeness of the vote last September and the unprecedented landslide this May have understandably prompted the SNP to demand a lot more. It would be foolhardy for Westminster to refuse.
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I'm more and more convinced that these endless sticking-plaster solutions to the problems of the Union (which was an 18th-century construct in response to a threat of a French invasion, and has clearly had its day) are inadequate. What we really need is a fully-thought through federal UK, if we are going to have any kind of Union at all.
Just don't expect the £3bn per annum paid by Scotland towards the National Infrastructure Plan which should really be renamed the English Infrastructure Plan given where the vast bulk of the spending occurs. Oh and expect a drastic revision of the £3.5bn per annum currently paid by Scotland towards Westminster's Debt Interest Repayment.
And if you really think Scotland will continue to pay £3.5bn per annum towards a Power Projection military budget (comparisons Denmark £2.4bn, Ireland £1.5bn, Iceland £0bn) then you need to consider what happens the first time a party stands for election to Holyrood on a platform of cutting contributions to UK Defense - hint, the Greens may soon be close to the official opposition and/or likely coalition partners for the SNP in the foreseeable future.
And while it was enacted in the 18hC it was a result of activity in the 17th.
Given the disparity in the sizes of the UK's constituent nations, I'm not sure that, at the moment, a federal system is practical.
I know Mr Dancer, among others is viscerally opposed to the idea of an "England of the Regions" but I really don't see an alternative.
It's not a red line though; if there was a referendum I could quite easily be persuaded to vote for a British Federation based on the present nations.
150-200 member unicameral UK Parliament, dealing with defence, foreign affairs and macroeconomic policy (maybe 5-10% of government spending). Explicit sovereignty vested in the UK Parliament, as now.
3-400 member unicameral English Parliament, based in York or Manchester or somewhere and dealing with everything else
Scottish, Welsh and NI Parliaments as now, also dealing with everything else.
Disputes between them adjudicated by the Supreme Court.
We'd go from being one of the most centralised democractic countries to one of the least.
I think a more serious objection is the shallowness of the human skills pool outside London - such specialists as economists, statisticians, and other experts tend to concentrate disproportionately in the capital. That's why departments with lots of low-grade clerical work, such as the DVLA or HMRC back office can move outside London easily while elite policy-making is much more difficult to shift. But I don't think that's insuperable in the long run, especially given massively lower house prices outside the metropolis.
FFA is Holyrood’s bogeyman du jour, as with the Hydra, slay it and another bogey will appear.
Varro & Hannibal at the battle of Cannae? – You’re entering dangerous territory Mr H, there’ll be calls for a wiffle stick dual if this continues.
A Federal UK with a separate Federal Territory (Berwick) would remove the repressive focus on London.
After all, where are the major universities at which these people are educated?
Maybe in your scenario the Chaurdian would move back to Manchester!
Who knew that far to many unionists do not have what they perceive as Scotland's best interests at heart :-)
As he puts it, and I have no trouble at all in concurring:
" The Unionist parties have never viewed devolution for Scotland as something that’s worthwhile, as something that is a response to the desire of the electorate of Scotland. They’ve only ever seen it as a political tool for defeating the SNP. "
The SNP have never viewed devolution for Scotland as something that’s worthwhile, as something that is a response to the desire of the electorate of Scotland.
https://dataportal.orr.gov.uk/displayreport/report/html/84027c08-cdf2-4fae-a0cb-34dc8cd66983
DH = Caesar
TSE = Vercingetorix.
FFA does mean there needs to be FFA for England too. It needs to be symetrical with EVFEL or an English Parliament (simplist solution is the English MPs meeting outside Westminster for English Parliamentary business at least as an interim measure).
The best location would be in a modest sized town midway between the dominent cities of England (like Canberra, Washington DC or Bonn) preferably with good rail links to London as MPs would need to shuttle regularly. Leicester is the obvious choice...
bit.ly/1L3wrnc
FFA can't be achieved in 18 months because it would have to be negotiated with HMG, but separation could because it only had to be negotiated with HMG, BoE, EU, NATO, etc., etc., etc...
They are using the spectre or threat of so called ''Independence '' to try and lever concessions out of Westminster ; in reality they want the taxpayer (primarily English ) to fund their socialist utopia in Scotland ;unfortunately , folks down here in England are having none of it and that's why they gave the Tories their long awaited majority !
The electorate want the government to call their bluff , to dare them to do their worst , to stand up to them in a similar way that Thatcher stood up to the militant and undemocratic miner's union back in 1984 , and they expect the same result !
The odious SNP are merely the cadaverous corpse of the failed 1970's Labour Party brought back to life by the lightening bolt of nationalism ; a Frankenstein -like monster representing the worst of both Left and Right ...the failed socialism of the Left and the toxic tribalism ,exclusiveness of the Right ...anyone familiar with the troubles in N Ireland or the breakup of the former Yugoslavia will instantly recognise the M O of the SNP
It speaks volumes about the political maturity of folks in Scotland that so many political munchkins could be seduced by the siren song of these obvious chancers and opportunists !
''Springtime for Scotland '' or is it ''Follow the yellow brick road '' ?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/recruitment-crisis-means-one-in-10-1096793
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/royal-regiment-scotland-top-military-1897465
"anyone familiar with the troubles in N Ireland or the breakup of the former Yugoslavia will instantly recognise the M O of the SNP"
Perhaps you haven't noticed that no-one, whether in favour or against Scottish independence has been killed in the whole of the 20th Century and the 21st Century to date.
Still, I see you aren't closely aligned with reality :-)
"The SNP have never viewed devolution for Scotland as something that’s worthwhile, as something that is a response to the desire of the electorate of Scotland."
As evidenced by, well, absolutely no evidence whatsoever.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/ben-riley-smith/11669994/Gordon-Brown-The-United-Kingdom-is-on-life-support.html
Brown is an old man who no one wants to listen to... people have had enough of the old loon whilst he was Prime Minister.
Are you really claiming the SNP don't want separation?
Excellent reference to Hannibal.
I broadly agree, except I think English devolution ought to occur at the same time as further Scottish devolution to avoid any further imbalance.
Sadly he doesn't get the full extent to which Labour are currently irrelevant if not anachronistic.
Whatever happened to the Labour Party
Simon Burns MP
Simon Hughes
Paul Kenny of GMB
It's again the classic approach of Labour to anything so they take the route of....
1) we are blamed for something we were actually responsible for
2) we cannot defend said accusation
3) move argument sideways by saying they blamed us for something we were not responsible for
4) defend this position stating other side is unreasonable
Rinse and repeat.
They have done this throughout the banking collapse by moving the argument onto "we caused the collapse of the banking system worldwide" (defendable) from " we blew all the money and left the country up the Swanee when the inevitable crisis hit despite all the warnings we had" ( not defendable)
The electorate saw through it in May 2015 and the rest is history
"Are you really claiming the SNP don't want separation? "
Of course I am claiming they don't want "separation", just as the USA don't celebrate "Separation Day" on 4th July.
Lopsided = Scotland got a Parliament. Wales got an Assembly. England got nothing.
Ill-conceived = Labour said it would kill nationalism stone dead. Less than two decades later, the SNP have an outright majority in Holyrood and 56/59 MPs.
Mr. Divvie, you, at least partially, misremember. Some of us, before the vote was had, were pissed off at Brown's stupid Vow bullshit and with the three party leaders in Westminster being nodding dogs to it.
It's true some (including in the media/political class) were gushing at how super Brown was. I wasn't, and others here were also unimpressed.
I have no appetite to vote Labour again.
Unable to defend the position that the SNP want to abolish the existing devolution settlement (that's irrefutable) he whines about terminology
It will be very difficult to predict and I think that the figures from posters would vary wildly.
That's a genuine question.
The labour party just got its head blown clean off in the cross fire.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4468935.ece
Leaving that aside, can you really see no link between the Yes campaign, the massive rise post-referendum of SNP membership and then tremendous SNP success in the General Election?
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article4469079.ece
"Unable to defend the position that the SNP want to abolish the existing devolution settlement (that's irrefutable) he whines about terminology "
Mine was merely a light hearted response, a resistance to your pejorative language.
I regard independence as the transfer of all powers to Scotland. I view it as the logical finale to the current transfer of some powers to Scotland.
So I don't regard independence as abolishing devolution, but rather its ultimate fulfilment at the endpoint of a continuum.
We want FFA, as long as we can keep Barnett
We want separation, as long as devolution stays
SNP logic is a wonder to behold
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3122329/The-50th-birthday-snub-proves-Ed-s-feud-brother-gone-nuclear-David-invites-major-players-Blair-era-except-brother.html
The amendment by veteran Conservative backbencher Sir Edward Leigh would seek quickly to hand over all powers to the Scottish Parliament on, among other things, finance, home affairs, trade and industry, energy, transport and social security; leaving matters like defence, foreign affairs and the constitution reserved to Westminster.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/snp-challenged-by-labour-to-back-tory-bid-to-fast-track-full-fiscal-auton.128871343
No wonder the 'H' word gets bandied about.
Mr. Jonathan, the lopsided point is not debatable. Three parts of the UK: one has a full Parliament, one has an Assembly, one has nothing. That's the definition of a lopsided arrangement.
Just one more reason we need an English Parliament.
Every time Brown opens his gob, it all comes flooding back... and I am sure I am not alone. The best thing Brown can do is keep schtum.
It's just such a weak argument that I can't believe it's even being made.
'Bogus resentment'
As is this supposed hatred of all things tory. The SNP has become a sink for loony rabid lefties.
The SNP have hold of a tiger by the tail.
Sadly, I think we've left it a bit too late, given Scotland's already on the way out unless the SNP go all PQ on us, which I should imagine they are aware of the danger of and being careful about.
Moral compass, my arse.
BTW you might want to check how much England and Wales are now consuming in rail subsidies. It is eye watering.
Mr. Divvie, the last polling I saw had a majority in England seeing it as the preferred form of devolution (unsure if there was the option for no devolution included [or none of the above] in that poll, though).
The BBC and political class don't seem to want to even mention it.
Mr. Jonathan, hmph. We need an English Parliament. Until and unless we get it, the Conservatives seem content to ignore the need and there's the risk Labour et al. will try and slice England up into petty fiefdoms.
As for "threat", Independence is the goal and the only goal. Nothing short of that will ever be good enough for Scotland. Your comical view on Scotland is just the opportunity Independence has to thrive and win. You make it easy for Scotland to be free.
As for the military budget, it's a UK-wide responsibility and needs to be funded as such. Any alternative means independence.
Jack Straw
The Labour Party
.