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2nd - preference

Fourth - like Burnham last time....

Does Burnham drive?? if he doesn't he may have an excuse, if he does, he is a complete dork.. Anyone who drives knows how much fuel costs..

The European Union (Referendum) Bill has been read a second time by 544-53.

TGOHF said:

Life_ina_market_town said:

The European Union (Referendum) Bill has been read a second time by 544-53.

Who were the 53 ?

The Nats?

Official nominations


Andy

PLP Nominations
Debbie Abrahams MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth
Heidi Alexander MP for Lewisham East
Dave Anderson MP for Blaydon
Luciana Berger MP for Liverpool, Wavertree
Clive Betts MP for Sheffield South East
Kevin Brennan MP for Cardiff West
David Crausby MP for Bolton North East
Alex Cunningham MP for Stockton North
Wayne David MP for Caerphilly
Peter Dowd MP for Bootle
Michael Dugher MP for Barnsley East
Bill Esterson MP for Sefton Central
Paul Farrelly MP for Newcastle-Under-Lyme
Yvonne Fovargue MP for Makerfield
Pat Glass MP for North West Durham
Mary Glindon MP for North Tyneside
Lilian Greenwood MP for Nottingham South
Nia Griffith MP for Llanelli
Andrew Gwynne MP for Denton and Reddish
Harry Harpham MP for Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough
Carolyn Harris MP for Swansea East
Dan Jarvis MP for Barnsley Central
Graham Jones MP for Hyndburn
Barbara Keeley MP for Worsley and Eccles South
Ian Lavery MP for Wansbeck
Emma Lewell-Buck MP for South Shields
Justin Madders MP for Ellesmere Port and Neston
Chris Matheson MP for City of Chester
Kerry McCarthy MP for Bristol East
Andy McDonald MP for Middlesbrough
Conor McGinn MP for St Helens North
Liz McInnes MP for Heywood and Middleton
Ian Mearns MP for Gateshead
Albert Owen MP for Ynys Mon
Lucy Powell MP for Manchester Central
Angela Rayner MP for Ashton-Under-Lyne
Christina Rees MP for Neath
Rachel Reeves MP for Leeds West
Steve Rotheram MP for Liverpool, Walton
Owen Smith MP for Pontypridd
Jo Stevens MP for Cardiff Central
Nick Thomas-Symonds MP for Torfaen
Anna Turley MP for Redcar
Karl Turner MP for Kingston Upon Hull East
Derek Twigg MP for Halton
Alan Whitehead MP for Southampton Test
Iain Wright MP for Hartlepool
Stephen Hepburn MP for Jarrow
Holly Lynch MP for Halifax
Rachael Maskell MP for York Central
Yasmin Qureshi MP for Bolton South East
Valerie Vaz MP for Walsall South
Lisa Nandy MP for Wigan

Jeremy

PLP Nominations
Grahame Morris MP for Easington
Diane Abbott MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington
Ronnie Campbell MP for Blyth Valley
Kelvin Hopkins MP for Luton North
Clive Lewis MP for Norwich South
John McDonnell MP for Hayes and Harlington
Kate Osamor MP for Edmonton
Dennis Skinner MP for Bolsover
Cat Smith MP for Lancaster and Fleetwood
Frank Field MP for Birkenhead
Jon Trickett MP for Hemsworth

Yvette

PLP Nominations
Ian Austin MP for Dudley North
Lyn Brown MP for West Ham
Chris Bryant MP for Rhondda
Liam Byrne MP for Birmingham, Hodge Hill
Ruth Cadbury MP for Brentford and Isleworth
Vernon Coaker MP for Gedling
Judith Cummins MP for Bradford South
Jim Cunningham MP for Coventry South
Geraint Davies MP for Swansea West
Jack Dromey MP for Birmingham, Erdington
Coleen Fletcher MP for Coventry North East
Vicky Foxcroft MP for Lewisham, Deptford
Kate Green MP for Stretford and Urmston
David Hanson MP for Delyn
Sharon Hodgson MP for Washington and Sunderland West
Diana Johnson MP for Hull North
Kevan Jones MP for North Durham
Helen Jones MP for Warrington North
Khalid Mahmood MP for Birmingham, Perry Barr
Shabana Mahmood MP for Birmingham, Ladywood
Seema Malhotra MP for Feltham and Heston
Stephen McCabe MP for Birmingham, Selly Oak
Catherine McKinnell MP for Newcastle Upon Tyne North
Matthew Pennycook MP for Greenwich and Woolwich
Jess Phillips MP for Birmingham Yardley
Bridget Phillipson MP for Houghton and Sunderland South
Stephen Pound MP for Ealing North
Marie Rimmer MP for St Helens South and Whiston
Virendra Sharma MP for Ealing, Southall
Paula Sherriff MP for Dewsbury
Ruth Smeeth MP for Stoke-on-Trent North
John Spellar MP for Warley
Adrian Bailey MP for West Bromwich West
Nick Brown MP for Newcastle Upon Tyne East
Helen Goodman MP for Bishop Auckland
Fabian Hamilton MP for Leeds North East
John Healey MP for Wentworth and Dearne
Melanie Onn MP for Great Grimsby
Geoffrey Robinson MP for Coventry North West
Andrew Slaughter MP for Hammersmith
Jonathan Ashworth MP for Leicester South

MarqueeMark said:

SquareRoot said:

Does Burnham drive?? if he doesn't he may have an excuse, if he does, he is a complete dork.. Anyone who drives knows how much fuel costs..

Even if you don't drive, you have to be hugely unattentive not to notice those bloody great signs with 119.9p every few hundred yards in urban areas.

I am apparently one of the unattentive.

The idea of a weekly list of these things to MPs sounds like an ok idea though, they'll keep getting asked these things and silly as it is it does cause embarrassment.

Stella


PLP Nominations
Debbie Abrahams MP for Oldham East and Saddleworth
Stella Creasy MP for Walthamstow
Stephen Doughty MP for Cardiff South and Penarth
Kate Green MP for Stretford and Urmston
Dan Jarvis MP for Barnsley Central
Fiona Mactaggart MP for Slough
Wes Streeting MP for Ilford North
Stephen Twigg MP for Liverpool, West Derby
Jamie Reed MP for Copeland
Gareth Thomas MP for Harrow West

Caroline

PLP Nominations
Tom Blenkinsop MP for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland
Ann Coffey MP for Stockport
Alex Cunningham MP for Stockton North
Nic Dakin MP for Scunthorpe
Wayne David MP for Caerphilly
Julie Elliott MP for Sunderland Central
Jim Fitzpatrick MP for Poplar and Limehouse
Caroline Flint MP for Don Valley
Yvonne Fovargue MP for Makerfield
Barry Gardiner MP for Brent North
Mary Glindon MP for North Tyneside
Carolyn Harris MP for Swansea East
George Howarth MP for Knowsley
Graham Jones MP for Hyndburn
Gerald Kaufman MP for Manchester Gorton
Stephen Kinnock MP for Aberavon
Siobhain McDonagh MP for Mitcham and Morden
Jessica Morden MP for Newport East
Albert Owen MP for Ynys Mon
Johnny Reynolds MP for Stalybridge and Hyde
Joan Ryan MP for Enfield North
Owen Smith MP for Pontypridd
Angela Smith MP for Penistone and Stocksbridge
Gisela Stuart MP for Birmingham, Edgbaston
Anna Turley MP for Redcar
Karl Turner MP for Kingston Upon Hull East
Alan Whitehead MP for Southampton Test
Phil Wilson MP for Sedgefield
Jim Dowd MP for Lewisham West & Penge
Toby Perkins MP for Chesterfield

John

PLP Nominations
Kevin Barron MP for Rother Valley
Clive Betts MP for Sheffield South East
Ruth Cadbury MP for Brentford and Isleworth
Simon Danczuk MP for Rochdale
Clive Efford MP for Eltham
Louise Ellman MP for Liverpool, Riverside
Fabian Hamilton MP for Leeds North East
Harry Harpham MP for Sheffield Brightside & Hillsborough
Madeleine Moon MP for Bridgend
Paula Sherriff MP for Dewsbury
Andrew Slaughter MP for Hammersmith
Derek Twigg MP for Halton
Paul Blomfield MP for Sheffield Central
John Healey MP for Wentworth and Dearne
Ivan Lewis MP for Bury South
Holly Lynch MP for Halifax
Gordon Marsden MP for Blackpool South

MarqueeMark said:

Toms said:

From the Mail, apparently:
"Andy Burnham's attempts to portray himself as a man of the people backfired today when he was exposed for not knowing the price of petrol."

So, it appears the Mail thinks that by definition an ordinary person must own a car. How sad, etc, is that?

Bit hard to make the case for the squeezed-middle, cost-of-living-crisis Labour core policies when you don't know how much your voters are paying for those essentials in their lives. Out of touch doesn't cover it.

Just piss-poor politics.

It's the idea that a car is essential to just about everyman is, to me, the sad thing. Diatribe alert! Maybe I'd better take it no further.

Plato said:

Petrol was last £1.60 in 2012 if my quick Googling is accurate http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/petrol-strike-is-off-but-prices-to-hit-160-795822

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

SquareRoot said:

Does Burnham drive?? if he doesn't he may have an excuse, if he does, he is a complete dork.. Anyone who drives knows how much fuel costs..

Even if you don't drive, you have to be hugely unattentive not to notice those bloody great signs with 119.9p every few hundred yards in urban areas.

I am apparently one of the unattentive.

The idea of a weekly list of these things to MPs sounds like an ok idea though, they'll keep getting asked these things and silly as it is it does cause embarrassment.

I'd like to think I'd have done ok with a guess, I recall it getting down to 105ish, but that it had picked up a bit. That said, I walk past a great big petrol sign most days, so I really should still have known.

Rushanara

PLP Nominations
Lyn Brown MP for West Ham
Seema Malhotra MP for Feltham and Heston
Chuka Umunna MP for Streatham
Yasmin Quereshi MP for Bolton South East

Deputy totals: Watson 50, Flint 30, Eagle 20, Healey 17, Bradshaw 12, Creasy 10, Ali 4

Same as leader: 35

williamglenn said:

AndreaParma_82 said:

Deputy totals: Watson 50, Flint 30, Eagle 20, Healey 17, Bradshaw 12, Creasy 10, Ali 4

What's the threshold for the deputy ballot?

kle4 said:

Plato said:

Petrol was last £1.60 in 2012 if my quick Googling is accurate http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/petrol-strike-is-off-but-prices-to-hit-160-795822

kle4 said:

MarqueeMark said:

SquareRoot said:

Does Burnham drive?? if he doesn't he may have an excuse, if he does, he is a complete dork.. Anyone who drives knows how much fuel costs..

Even if you don't drive, you have to be hugely unattentive not to notice those bloody great signs with 119.9p every few hundred yards in urban areas.

I am apparently one of the unattentive.

The idea of a weekly list of these things to MPs sounds like an ok idea though, they'll keep getting asked these things and silly as it is it does cause embarrassment.

I'd like to think I'd have done ok with a guess, I recall it getting down to 105ish, but that it had picked up a bit. That said, I walk past a great big petrol sign most days, so I really should still have known.

Don't beat yourself up - I've walked passed entire shops in town every week for years and not realised there were there, until I needed them.

I know the local price of fuel because I have to fill up the tank once, maybe twice a week and am always looking for best price. I doubt Burnham needs to watch the pennies quite as much as the average joe.

notme said:

Toms said:

MarqueeMark said:

Toms said:

From the Mail, apparently:
"Andy Burnham's attempts to portray himself as a man of the people backfired today when he was exposed for not knowing the price of petrol."

So, it appears the Mail thinks that by definition an ordinary person must own a car. How sad, etc, is that?

Bit hard to make the case for the squeezed-middle, cost-of-living-crisis Labour core policies when you don't know how much your voters are paying for those essentials in their lives. Out of touch doesn't cover it.

Just piss-poor politics.

It's the idea that a car is essential to just about everyman is, to me, the sad thing. Diatribe alert! Maybe I'd better take it no further.

If you live outside a major metropolitan area, life without a car is very difficult.

Luckily Labour doesn't need to connect with people outside major metropolitan areas.

MikeK said:

From the map it seems that Kendal is the prefered choice in London. Burnham on the other hand is clearly not a London favorite.

I thought Kendal was the LD choice?

richardDodd said:

Burnham is not an ordinary Joe,, he is pitching to lead a major political party in the UK with a view to become PM..He will be arguing for the next five years on behalf of the downtrodden, who have to fill up their cars every week in order to get to work...if he cannot be arsed to find out from one of his many spads what the price of fuel is then he should be fired.

So he should fill his time finding out prices for everyday items, rather than doing the running the country stuff?

As an aside, what did the people criticising Burnham think of this story when it broke?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/oct/01/david-cameron-price-of-bread

The criticism was pathetic then, and it's pathetic now.

RobD said:

Plato said:

Are you that guy in the Internet?

RobD said:

richardDodd said:

Burnham is not an ordinary Joe,, he is pitching to lead a major political party in the UK with a view to become PM..He will be arguing for the next five years on behalf of the downtrodden, who have to fill up their cars every week in order to get to work...if he cannot be arsed to find out from one of his many spads what the price of fuel is then he should be fired.

So he should fill his time finding out prices for everyday items, rather than doing the running the country stuff?

I am *a* guy in the Internet! (Honestly have no idea what your referring to!!)

http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-06-07

I've not been able to remember the price of petrol since they stopped selling it in gallons.

AndreaParma_82 said:

Deputy totals: Watson 50, Flint 30, Eagle 20, Healey 17, Bradshaw 12, Creasy 10, Ali 4

If Tom Watson is the answer, what is the question?

Stella Creasy is good, Ben Bradshaw has his moments, but the rest!

JosiasJessop said:

Cyclefree said:

I tend to agree with Josias Jessop that criticising politicians for not knowing the price of bread is a bit pathetic.

Still, Labour made the cost of living for ordinary people a big part of its offering. So entirely predictable that you might be asked about it and sensible to be prepared for such a question.

And if you don't know because you're too busy say so instead of pretending.

It's the falseness and insincerity that grates. And it would not do MPs any harm to live like the rest of us. Their jobs are not, frankly, that more important than lots of other jobs where people have to work long hours, juggle family life and manage a budget etc.

They'd get slated whatever they said if it is not the right answer. It's a deliberate trap.

It's one of these cases where the question says more about the interviewer than it does the interviewee.

About the only honest answer would be: "Look, I'm in a very fortunate situation where I can afford to buy (insert applicable consumable) without really thinking about the cost. I know many people are not in that position, and that is why we will try to reduce the price of (insert applicable consumable) and other everyday items for everyone."

And even that would get slated.

Exactly. It's a demeaning question to the voters. Even if they know the price of bread, really, it doesn't affect MPs the same way it does people who struggle.

EPG said:

JosiasJessop said:

Cyclefree said:

I tend to agree with Josias Jessop that criticising politicians for not knowing the price of bread is a bit pathetic.

Still, Labour made the cost of living for ordinary people a big part of its offering. So entirely predictable that you might be asked about it and sensible to be prepared for such a question.

And if you don't know because you're too busy say so instead of pretending.

It's the falseness and insincerity that grates. And it would not do MPs any harm to live like the rest of us. Their jobs are not, frankly, that more important than lots of other jobs where people have to work long hours, juggle family life and manage a budget etc.

They'd get slated whatever they said if it is not the right answer. It's a deliberate trap.

It's one of these cases where the question says more about the interviewer than it does the interviewee.

About the only honest answer would be: "Look, I'm in a very fortunate situation where I can afford to buy (insert applicable consumable) without really thinking about the cost. I know many people are not in that position, and that is why we will try to reduce the price of (insert applicable consumable) and other everyday items for everyone."

And even that would get slated.

Exactly. It's a demeaning question to the voters. Even if they know the price of bread, really, it doesn't affect MPs the same way it does people who struggle.

True enough. An unkind person might perhaps point out that MPs seemed to know the cost of things down to the last penny when it came to claiming their expenses........

Christ on a bike, some Kippers/outers are complete idiots*

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/taste-the-diffidence#.fwXLnrdN0

*I think I may have just violated the first rule of tautology club there.

Cyclefree said:

EPG said:

JosiasJessop said:

Cyclefree said:

I tend to agree with Josias Jessop that criticising politicians for not knowing the price of bread is a bit pathetic.

Still, Labour made the cost of living for ordinary people a big part of its offering. So entirely predictable that you might be asked about it and sensible to be prepared for such a question.

And if you don't know because you're too busy say so instead of pretending.

It's the falseness and insincerity that grates. And it would not do MPs any harm to live like the rest of us. Their jobs are not, frankly, that more important than lots of other jobs where people have to work long hours, juggle family life and manage a budget etc.

They'd get slated whatever they said if it is not the right answer. It's a deliberate trap.

It's one of these cases where the question says more about the interviewer than it does the interviewee.

About the only honest answer would be: "Look, I'm in a very fortunate situation where I can afford to buy (insert applicable consumable) without really thinking about the cost. I know many people are not in that position, and that is why we will try to reduce the price of (insert applicable consumable) and other everyday items for everyone."

And even that would get slated.

Exactly. It's a demeaning question to the voters. Even if they know the price of bread, really, it doesn't affect MPs the same way it does people who struggle.

True enough. An unkind person might perhaps point out that MPs seemed to know the cost of things down to the last penny when it came to claiming their expenses........

Probably an intern.

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Christ on a bike, some Kippers/outers are complete idiots*

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/taste-the-diffidence#.fwXLnrdN0

*I think I may have just violated the first rule of tautology club there.

Stephen Woolfe saves the British Sausage!

It's enough to make me want to swap my regularly weekly shopping from Tesco & Waitrose to Sainsburys

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Christ on a bike, some Kippers/outers are complete idiots*

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/taste-the-diffidence#.fwXLnrdN0

*I think I may have just violated the first rule of tautology club there.

Stephen Woolfe saves the British Sausage!

It's enough to make me want to swap my regularly weekly shopping from Tesco & Waitrose to Sainsburys

The No campaign make the Scottish Yestapo seem reasonable and mentally well balanced.

It is going to be a long year.

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

Who are this team pretending to be England?

Win by 210 runs? Normally struggle to score that many.

I went into a meeting when England were 202/7, when I went into a meeting, when I left a little over an hour later it was 350/6.

I haven't been this irked in a very long time

Just watched the highlights. Root and Buttler both truly incredible.

Might have been different if they had another bowler of Boult's class though.

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

foxinsoxuk said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Christ on a bike, some Kippers/outers are complete idiots*

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/taste-the-diffidence#.fwXLnrdN0

*I think I may have just violated the first rule of tautology club there.

Stephen Woolfe saves the British Sausage!

It's enough to make me want to swap my regularly weekly shopping from Tesco & Waitrose to Sainsburys

The No campaign make the Scottish Yestapo seem reasonable and mentally well balanced.

It is going to be a long year.

twitter.com/JamieRoss7/status/608372306868637696

Two can play at this game! That new JCB is off my shopping list! Who will join me in a boycott of yellow earth moving equipment?

DavidL said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

DavidL said:

Who are this team pretending to be England?

Win by 210 runs? Normally struggle to score that many.

I went into a meeting when England were 202/7, when I went into a meeting, when I left a little over an hour later it was 350/6.

I haven't been this irked in a very long time

Just watched the highlights. Root and Buttler both truly incredible.

Might have been different if they had another bowler of Boult's class though.

Southee's back on Friday.

I'm quite optimistic now about the wisdom of buying tickets to three of the one dayers v Australia in September

Luckyguy1983 said:

FPT

Cyclefree said:

Furthermore, leaving the EU is hardly a leap into some unknown chasm -Australia, Singapore, Norway, Switzerland, etc. etc. even this country within living memory - all seem to somehow struggle on without the blessing of EU membership.

Your mention of Scotland only highlights the differences. There is no currency question. There is no question over ministries of state having to be replicated; there is no question over diplomatic services having to be created. There is no issue of having to find an army. It's not a country cutting itself in half, it is a sovereign nation leaving a dysfunctional conglomerate.

Thank you for your answer.

Of course Britain survived before 1973 - though not very well - hence the collective loss of self-confidence which, in part, propelled us in. But the world now is different. It will be a leap into the unknown. There is a big difference between never having joined and having to unpick yourself from an organisation you've been a member of for decades. That is likely to be more difficult and more costly than people might envisage, even if it's the best course.

There aren't that many good examples: the Velvet divorce in Czechoslovakia is the only one I can think of. Otherwise in Europe what is there? Ireland leaving the UK; Yugoslavia; the break up of the Soviet Union. I'm not saying there will be war or civil strife. But there will be costs and those costs may well be borne by those least able to bear them - a bit like immigration, perhaps. So you need to think how to persuade those who will bear the costs to vote for you.

Of course, Britain can survive and prosper without the EU - and can also survive and prosper within the EU.

It's just that they would be, in some respects, different sorts of Britains.

The "No" campaign is asking people to make a change to the status quo and so it needs to have a very compelling and attractive answer to people who will, rightly, be worried about what it means for them.

"Britain will be a sovereign nation trading with the world" etc may be right and may be attractive as a general statement. It may not be enough for the man in his 50's who is worried that he might lose his job, find it difficult to get another one and worries that he will be the one bearing the sacrifice for the bright tomorrow. So the campaign will have to have an answer that makes sense to him.

MarkHopkins said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The UK general election was actually a huge win for the British left

http://tinyurl.com/NoAmericanTanksInBaghdad

Why is it everyone who loses wants voting reform, then they don't care about it when they get back in?

Hmmm.

Personally I've grown to like FPTP - it forces parties to form a much broader consensus than just piling up votes with their special interest groups.

You won't be a fan of FPTP after you've read my forthcoming piece on AV.

If a journo had asked Dave about the cost of petrol and he had screwed up, the howls on here of a Tory Toff out of touch etc would have been unbearable.. when it happens to a champagne socialist, suddenly people want to defend Burnham

WHY ???

SquareRoot said:

If a journo had asked Dave about the cost of petrol and he had screwed up, the howls on here of a Tory Toff out of touch etc would have been unbearable.. when it happens to a champagne socialist, suddenly people want to defend Burnham

WHY ???

Because the posters from the Right on here are not daft enough to try and fight class warfare. It only seems to be those on the Left (and then only a select few) who fundamentally believe people are somehow less legitimate as leaders because they have been fortunate in their lives.

TheScreamingEagles said:

The UK general election was actually a huge win for the British left

http://tinyurl.com/NoAmericanTanksInBaghdad

Tim Farron, the well-known rightist.

TheScreamingEagles said:

The UK general election was actually a huge win for the British left

http://tinyurl.com/NoAmericanTanksInBaghdad

What utter twaddle. At first I thought this was a spoof article but it appears to be serious.

TheScreamingEagles said:

MarkHopkins said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

The UK general election was actually a huge win for the British left

http://tinyurl.com/NoAmericanTanksInBaghdad

Why is it everyone who loses wants voting reform, then they don't care about it when they get back in?

Hmmm.

Personally I've grown to like FPTP - it forces parties to form a much broader consensus than just piling up votes with their special interest groups.

You won't be a fan of FPTP after you've read my forthcoming piece on AV.

positively tantric