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So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??0
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Retirement home in Qater beckons. Or sonewhere without a US extradition treaty. Kazakhstan?pbr2013 said:
I am reading between the lines but it seems that that letter to Blatter's deputy from the South Africans containing detailed payment instructions which was publicised yesterday takes the paper trail right to Blatter's door. There is probably more as his lieutenants give it up as well. I think he is looking at a long hard stretch in a US nick. Somehow the tears just won't come.OchEye said:Something on the radio this evening, only partially listening until I heard Blatter resignation. Seems journalists in Switzerland were asking questions all day about one particular "problem" which was too close for Sepp's comfort.
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This may have something to do with it:pbr2013 said:
I am reading between the lines but it seems that that letter to Blatter's deputy from the South Africans containing detailed payment instructions which was publicised yesterday takes the paper trail right to Blatter's door. There is probably more as his lieutenants give it up as well. I think he is looking at a long hard stretch in a US nick. Somehow the tears just won't come.OchEye said:Something on the radio this evening, only partially listening until I heard Blatter resignation. Seems journalists in Switzerland were asking questions all day about one particular "problem" which was too close for Sepp's comfort.
Wednesday FIFA whistle blower Chuck Blazer’s full transcript is due to be released and Collins believes there will be further revelations which could explain’s Blatter’s decision to stand down.0 -
I don't think that's true. I think the Panamanian government requires banks to collect personal information (see: http://www.encuentra24.com/content/panama-en/business/view/how-to-open-a-personal-bank-account-in-panama), but that banking privacy laws prevent the banks from sharing it with other people.FrancisUrquhart said:"If you want to remain out of the clutches of the US Justice system, don't use US banks to launder money."
Anybody who has is a total and utter moron. If you are going to take dodgy money, the last place you go anywhere near is a US bank on US soil. You can find all worlds major banking groups in Panama, and they won't ask you any questions (you don't even have to provide your name) if you wish to open an account.0 -
I doubt it has anything to do with Obama. Look further back at what Swiss banks were doing at least a decade or so ago and how it affected the US. That gave the US the leverage to open up Switzerland. And now they're using it. And the Swiss are helping them.pbr2013 said:
That is interesting isn't it? I'd like to be a fly on the wall in some of the salons of Zurich and Basel tonight. Or Cairo. Or Harare. All good I say. Way to go yanks. Is it pay-back for the disrespect shown to Obama about the US WC bid?Cyclefree said:What's most interesting to me about the FIFA case is how closely the US and Swiss authorities now appear to be co-operating which, frankly, is a change from the past. There may be other institutions or individuals based in Switzerland who might be feeling a bit more nervous than in the past.
Not an Obama fan but cleaning out these Augean stables is a bit of a legacy. Quelle fun!
And a lot of other countries are going in after them.
The Swiss banking model has changed from "you can keep it safe and hidden here" to "we can manage it well for you here". To be honest, that change has been happening for a while. FIFA and others have not noticed that the wind has changed - or thought that their wealth and importance would protect them. But, frankly, you can only take the proverbial for so long.
Being seen as a comparatively clean country is a commercial advantage. And the US has always had a history of going after those who get too big for their boots.0 -
I wonder what honest, uncorruptable and upstanding gentlemen will stand this time?RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
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It looks like there was a 'facilitation payment' of $10m from SA.pbr2013 said:
I am reading between the lines but it seems that that letter to Blatter's deputy from the South Africans containing detailed payment instructions which was publicised yesterday takes the paper trail right to Blatter's door. There is probably more as his lieutenants give it up as well. I think he is looking at a long hard stretch in a US nick. Somehow the tears just won't come.OchEye said:Something on the radio this evening, only partially listening until I heard Blatter resignation. Seems journalists in Switzerland were asking questions all day about one particular "problem" which was too close for Sepp's comfort.
How big an organisation anywhere in the world doesn't have the Chief Exec aware of $10m in or out of the books?0 -
He could look on the bright side though. No doubt the Colarado supermax is missing a president for its chapter of the World Society of the Friends of Suspenders.0
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To be fair, FIFA is a multi-billion organisation, $10m is like a few quid down the back of the sofa.Sandpit said:
It looks like there was a 'facilitation payment' of $10m from SA.pbr2013 said:
I am reading between the lines but it seems that that letter to Blatter's deputy from the South Africans containing detailed payment instructions which was publicised yesterday takes the paper trail right to Blatter's door. There is probably more as his lieutenants give it up as well. I think he is looking at a long hard stretch in a US nick. Somehow the tears just won't come.OchEye said:Something on the radio this evening, only partially listening until I heard Blatter resignation. Seems journalists in Switzerland were asking questions all day about one particular "problem" which was too close for Sepp's comfort.
How big an organisation anywhere in the world doesn't have the Chief Exec aware of $10m in or out of the books?
If these allegations from FBI are true, people have been skimming $100's million off the top, and Blatter knew nothing about those either.0 -
Howard Marks ...... Mr Nice ...... has a guide to the subject!Sean_F said:
If you want to remain out of the clutches of the US Justice system, don't use US banks to launder money.FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
If Blatter has any sense, he'll book a one-way flight to Moscow.0 -
He is in a bad way these days. Inoperable cancer.OldKingCole said:
Howard Marks ...... Mr Nice ...... has a guide to the subject!Sean_F said:
If you want to remain out of the clutches of the US Justice system, don't use US banks to launder money.FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
If Blatter has any sense, he'll book a one-way flight to Moscow.0 -
If he behaves himself there, he'll be given a black and White TV, with access to religious and educational programmes.pbr2013 said:He could look on the bright side though. No doubt the Colarado supermax is missing a president for its chapter of the World Society of the Friends of Suspenders.
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It's worth remembering that it was as long ago as 2008 that this - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/business/worldbusiness/16siemens.html - happened.
Why did anyone think that the US wouldn't take alleged bribery and corruption involving America seriously?
Only those who are too blind to see, too stupid to understand or too hubristic to think that they could be caught.0 -
Yes, saw that. Poor chap!FrancisUrquhart said:
He is in a bad way these days. Inoperable cancer.OldKingCole said:
Howard Marks ...... Mr Nice ...... has a guide to the subject!Sean_F said:
If you want to remain out of the clutches of the US Justice system, don't use US banks to launder money.FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
If Blatter has any sense, he'll book a one-way flight to Moscow.0 -
His book was very entertaining!OldKingCole said:
Yes, saw that. Poor chap!FrancisUrquhart said:
He is in a bad way these days. Inoperable cancer.OldKingCole said:
Howard Marks ...... Mr Nice ...... has a guide to the subject!Sean_F said:
If you want to remain out of the clutches of the US Justice system, don't use US banks to launder money.FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
If Blatter has any sense, he'll book a one-way flight to Moscow.0 -
Unless you're Chinese, of course.Cyclefree said:
I doubt it has anything to do with Obama. Look further back at what Swiss banks were doing at least a decade or so ago and how it affected the US. That gave the US the leverage to open up Switzerland. And now they're using it. And the Swiss are helping them.pbr2013 said:
That is interesting isn't it? I'd like to be a fly on the wall in some of the salons of Zurich and Basel tonight. Or Cairo. Or Harare. All good I say. Way to go yanks. Is it pay-back for the disrespect shown to Obama about the US WC bid?Cyclefree said:What's most interesting to me about the FIFA case is how closely the US and Swiss authorities now appear to be co-operating which, frankly, is a change from the past. There may be other institutions or individuals based in Switzerland who might be feeling a bit more nervous than in the past.
Not an Obama fan but cleaning out these Augean stables is a bit of a legacy. Quelle fun!
And a lot of other countries are going in after them.
The Swiss banking model has changed from "you can keep it safe and hidden here" to "we can manage it well for you here". To be honest, that change has been happening for a while. FIFA and others have not noticed that the wind has changed - or thought that their wealth and importance would protect them. But, frankly, you can only take the proverbial for so long.
Being seen as a comparatively clean country is a commercial advantage. And the US has always had a history of going after those who get too big for their boots.
The point when the U.S. Gets serious about the revolving door between politics and business in the U.S. is the date when I conclude that they are looking at corruption in all its forms and not just for electoral advantage.
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Well, indeed. Even the US has its faults and its blind eyes. But criticising a country for not doing enough is an odd criticism to make when you have others which do nothing. Better do something than nothing. And it's not as if this is an unknown unknown. Any company with even the slightest self-awareness or basic risk management should have been alert for years to the risk of bribery/corruption prosecutions. Even the SFO has made aggressive noises on this front.matt said:
Unless you're Chinese, of course.Cyclefree said:
I doubt it has anything to do with Obama. Look further back at what Swiss banks were doing at least a decade or so ago and how it affected the US. That gave the US the leverage to open up Switzerland. And now they're using it. And the Swiss are helping them.pbr2013 said:
That is interesting isn't it? I'd like to be a fly on the wall in some of the salons of Zurich and Basel tonight. Or Cairo. Or Harare. All good I say. Way to go yanks. Is it pay-back for the disrespect shown to Obama about the US WC bid?Cyclefree said:What's most interesting to me about the FIFA case is how closely the US and Swiss authorities now appear to be co-operating which, frankly, is a change from the past. There may be other institutions or individuals based in Switzerland who might be feeling a bit more nervous than in the past.
Not an Obama fan but cleaning out these Augean stables is a bit of a legacy. Quelle fun!
And a lot of other countries are going in after them.
The Swiss banking model has changed from "you can keep it safe and hidden here" to "we can manage it well for you here". To be honest, that change has been happening for a while. FIFA and others have not noticed that the wind has changed - or thought that their wealth and importance would protect them. But, frankly, you can only take the proverbial for so long.
Being seen as a comparatively clean country is a commercial advantage. And the US has always had a history of going after those who get too big for their boots.
The point when the U.S. Gets serious about the revolving door between politics and business in the U.S. is the date when I conclude that they are looking at corruption in all its forms and not just for electoral advantage.
Perhaps people thought that only bankers would be targets......
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Hell of a legacy for whoever cleans up Fifa. Greater even than bringing peace to the Middle East.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder what honest, uncorruptable and upstanding gentlemen will stand this time?RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
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I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.0 -
Only cos the ones that didn't change got blown up.Cyclefree said:
I doubt it has anything to do with Obama. Look further back at what Swiss banks were doing at least a decade or so ago and how it affected the US. That gave the US the leverage to open up Switzerland. And now they're using it. And the Swiss are helping them.pbr2013 said:
That is interesting isn't it? I'd like to be a fly on the wall in some of the salons of Zurich and Basel tonight. Or Cairo. Or Harare. All good I say. Way to go yanks. Is it pay-back for the disrespect shown to Obama about the US WC bid?Cyclefree said:What's most interesting to me about the FIFA case is how closely the US and Swiss authorities now appear to be co-operating which, frankly, is a change from the past. There may be other institutions or individuals based in Switzerland who might be feeling a bit more nervous than in the past.
Not an Obama fan but cleaning out these Augean stables is a bit of a legacy. Quelle fun!
And a lot of other countries are going in after them.
The Swiss banking model has changed from "you can keep it safe and hidden here" to "we can manage it well for you here". To be honest, that change has been happening for a while. FIFA and others have not noticed that the wind has changed - or thought that their wealth and importance would protect them. But, frankly, you can only take the proverbial for so long.
Being seen as a comparatively clean country is a commercial advantage. And the US has always had a history of going after those who get too big for their boots.
What was the name of the stupid private bank that picked up a lot of clients that UBS told to get lost once they wised up to the fact the fed were serious? Really good way to destroy a long established banking house.0 -
I'll do it.DecrepitJohnL said:
Hell of a legacy for whoever cleans up Fifa. Greater even than bringing peace to the Middle East.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder what honest, uncorruptable and upstanding gentlemen will stand this time?RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
I hate football with a passion, but at least I won't damage it as much as this lot has.
I'll start with a wage cap, make the teams have names like the Manchester Terriers, allow them to handle the ball, alter the shape of the goalposts, and make it a contact sport. Perhaps altering the number of people in a team to thirteen or fifteen. Oh, and the shape of the ball will have to change, too.0 -
O/T I see Yvette Cooper has come in from 5.7 to 4.9 on Betfair today. Liz Kendall has gone out from 3.0 to 3.5.
Have either of them been in the news? If so, I missed it.0 -
Burnham had a strong day, I reckon the rest of the field just calmed down a bit.Barnesian said:O/T I see Yvette Cooper has come in from 5.7 to 4.9 on Betfair today. Liz Kendall has gone out from 3.0 to 3.5.
Have either of them been in the news? If so, I missed it.0 -
Thanks to whoever tipped Sepp Blatter to not serve a full term with WH last week, a nice little earner!
6 on going by the end of 2015 looks good too!0 -
I'm like that with F1, let them fill their own cars up, change their own tires...JosiasJessop said:
I'll do it.DecrepitJohnL said:
Hell of a legacy for whoever cleans up Fifa. Greater even than bringing peace to the Middle East.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder what honest, uncorruptable and upstanding gentlemen will stand this time?RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
I hate football with a passion, but at least I won't damage it as much as this lot has.
I'll start with a wage cap, make the teams have names like the Manchester Terriers, allow them to handle the ball, alter the shape of the goalposts, and make it a contact sport. Perhaps altering the number of people in a team to thirteen or fifteen. Oh, and the shape of the ball will have to change, too.0 -
You need to introduce 'pundit's call', where the game is stopped for 30 minutes while 2 well quaffed ex footballers argue about some esoteric point in a TV studio 150 miles away.JosiasJessop said:
I'll do it.DecrepitJohnL said:
Hell of a legacy for whoever cleans up Fifa. Greater even than bringing peace to the Middle East.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder what honest, uncorruptable and upstanding gentlemen will stand this time?RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
I hate football with a passion, but at least I won't damage it as much as this lot has.
I'll start with a wage cap, make the teams have names like the Manchester Terriers, allow them to handle the ball, alter the shape of the goalposts, and make it a contact sport. Perhaps altering the number of people in a team to thirteen or fifteen. Oh, and the shape of the ball will have to change, too.
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I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.
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Micro is small macro is big.pbr2013 said:
I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.
(I.e. Micro is small evolution changes, beaks getting longer etc. Macro is about big changes, growing wings and things).0 -
Pulpstarfoxinsoxuk said:Thanks to whoever tipped Sepp Blatter to not serve a full term with WH last week, a nice little earner!
6 on going by the end of 2015 looks good too!
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Nah, was @Tissue_Price who tipped it upTheWhiteRabbit said:
Pulpstarfoxinsoxuk said:Thanks to whoever tipped Sepp Blatter to not serve a full term with WH last week, a nice little earner!
6 on going by the end of 2015 looks good too!
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“Now that people are going to want to save themselves, there’s probably a race to see who will flip on [Blatter] first,” one source said, explaining how the feds typically try to get people to inform on their superiors.
From the Telegraph coverage. Blatter on borrowed time it seems.0 -
You bit my troll bait!corporeal said:
Micro is small macro is big.pbr2013 said:
I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.
(I.e. Micro is small evolution changes, beaks getting longer etc. Macro is about big changes, growing wings and things).
Moreover, don't fall for that. Micro/macro evolution, irreducible complexity, absence of transitional forms and all the rest of it are window dressing for "intelligent design" which is a pseudo scientific trojan horse for creationism. Fly paper for cranks like FF. I'd have more respect for a paid operative in a St Petersburg troll factory. At least they need the money.
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Dunno, the price on Yvette was far too long though.Barnesian said:O/T I see Yvette Cooper has come in from 5.7 to 4.9 on Betfair today. Liz Kendall has gone out from 3.0 to 3.5.
Have either of them been in the news? If so, I missed it.
Soon as she gets the 35 there may well be crossover...
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Deeply moving. Thanks for the link.Casino_Royale said:O/T - I found this maiden speech by Johnny Mercer very moving. Particularly on a day like this, when a man's demons may have tragically consumed one of our most pre-eminent national politicians.
If I were a resident of Plymouth Moorview, I would be extraordinarily proud to have Johnny as my MP:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11646320/Cynical-about-politicians-This-speech-by-Johnny-Mercer-MP-should-make-you-think-again.html0 -
From the Telegraph coverage. Blatter on borrowed time it seems.Sandpit said:“Now that people are going to want to save themselves, there’s probably a race to see who will flip on [Blatter] first,” one source said, explaining how the feds typically try to get people to inform on their superiors.
Things like this always lead on to other things more unexpected. Do people think its only going to stop at money?0 -
Has he unresigned yet?0
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Is there such a thing as macro evolution? I guess after an extinction event something like that may occur, but on the whole evolution is a very slow process and would be considered "micro".pbr2013 said:
I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.0 -
Yes that was very good, read it and meant to link back earlier.DavidL said:
Deeply moving. Thanks for the link.Casino_Royale said:O/T - I found this maiden speech by Johnny Mercer very moving. Particularly on a day like this, when a man's demons may have tragically consumed one of our most pre-eminent national politicians.
If I were a resident of Plymouth Moorview, I would be extraordinarily proud to have Johnny as my MP:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11646320/Cynical-about-politicians-This-speech-by-Johnny-Mercer-MP-should-make-you-think-again.html
We need more like that (and Charlie Kennedy, RIP) in Parliament.0 -
Putin has refused to accept his resignation.Scrapheap_as_was said:Has he unresigned yet?
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Max, see my reply to corporeal below. As soon as you hear someone draw that distinction you know you are dealing with a creationist crank.MaxPB said:
Is there such a thing as macro evolution? I guess after an extinction event something like that may occur, but on the whole evolution is a very slow process and would be considered "micro".pbr2013 said:
I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.
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ExcellentScrapheap_as_was said:Has he unresigned yet?
More seriously tho...
I find it irksome that those who were only too keen to pour scorn on Kennedy for being a drunk are now praising him to the hilt but the thing that irks me the most is that every tradition in the UK is in danger of being traduced.. First it was gay "marriage" when there is no such thing as "marriage" between two men or two women, whatever they might like to call it "legally".
now they want to get approval to call God "She",
Is there anything that is sacrosanct >>??0 -
I wasn't joking about my 10 year old's biology homework. We are looking at horse evolution.0
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I really hope the SEC turns its eye to defence contracting next. Clean sweep as well, not just targeting single unlucky companies.Cyclefree said:It's worth remembering that it was as long ago as 2008 that this - http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/business/worldbusiness/16siemens.html - happened.
Why did anyone think that the US wouldn't take alleged bribery and corruption involving America seriously?
Only those who are too blind to see, too stupid to understand or too hubristic to think that they could be caught.0 -
Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?0
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I would run with that. Isn't the point about evolution that it is about how mutations adapt better and so replace those that do not... over countless generations? All right I know its got to be more complicated than that.MaxPB said:
Is there such a thing as macro evolution? I guess after an extinction event something like that may occur, but on the whole evolution is a very slow process and would be considered "micro".pbr2013 said:
I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.
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Sorry TP!Pulpstar said:
Nah, was @Tissue_Price who tipped it upTheWhiteRabbit said:
Pulpstarfoxinsoxuk said:Thanks to whoever tipped Sepp Blatter to not serve a full term with WH last week, a nice little earner!
6 on going by the end of 2015 looks good too!
You should have taken the plaudits Pulpstar0 -
The sport's so tarnished that it'll need a name change as well. What it needs is the respectability that only comes from England, and the excellence that can only be garnered from the public school system. Therefore naming it after a famous English public school would seem about right. Somewhere in the Midlands, perhaps, to signify that football is at the centre of the world. It'll be good if it was near some large transmitters as well, to show that the sport's reach is truly global.Flightpathl said:
You need to introduce 'pundit's call', where the game is stopped for 30 minutes while 2 well quaffed ex footballers argue about some esoteric point in a TV studio 150 miles away.JosiasJessop said:
I'll do it.DecrepitJohnL said:
Hell of a legacy for whoever cleans up Fifa. Greater even than bringing peace to the Middle East.FrancisUrquhart said:
I wonder what honest, uncorruptable and upstanding gentlemen will stand this time?RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
I hate football with a passion, but at least I won't damage it as much as this lot has.
I'll start with a wage cap, make the teams have names like the Manchester Terriers, allow them to handle the ball, alter the shape of the goalposts, and make it a contact sport. Perhaps altering the number of people in a team to thirteen or fifteen. Oh, and the shape of the ball will have to change, too.
And it's such a grand sport it'll need two names. Perhaps the second should signify the united nature of the game, that all the teams are part of one grand collective. Or perhaps that it is a collection of clubs playing in groups at roughly the same skill level, with tiers between the groups. In the latter case some connection with a Jules Verne classic would be good, because... well, just because he was excellent.
Anybody got any suggestions as for names?0 -
undignitas?MarkHopkins said:twitter.com/SamWallaceIndy/status/605816434149629952
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Soylent Green.MarkHopkins said:0 -
Burnham 51
Cooper 31
Kendall 22
Creagh 6
A total of 110 out of 232 IIRC Labour MPs.
I don't think if Creagh had enough backers she'd wait this late (I know OGH took long odds but I think it's wasted money). Indeed I think Kendall would want to keep herself in this too.
0 -
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
0 -
Self awareness.pbr2013 said:
You bit my troll bait!corporeal said:
Micro is small macro is big.pbr2013 said:
I'll leave that to others to judge.FalseFlag said:
I am afraid you are too late for that.pbr2013 said:
Risk of looking like a complete idiot?FalseFlag said:
Standard Chartered and Iran etc. Minimise your risk.Charles said:
Wire fraud if the money passed through a US linked bank (many payments are cleared in NY)FalseFlag said:Only two of the fourteen indicted persons are American citizens, one native born and the other a dual national. The American Attorney General will have to tie herself in knots to claim jurisdiction over foreign national FIFA functionaries who presumably committed their alleged crimes overseas. I don't see how the US will have much impact beyond CONCACAF.
I expect Blatter is quitting while he is ahead.
Don't forget the "NatWest 3" allegedly defrauded a UK bank from their office in London but were still extradited to the US on the basis that one meeting had occurred there.
I need to head off to help my ten year old with his science homework. Biology and evolution tonight. Any chance of a steer about "macro" and "micro" evolution? My science teachers seem to have left this out.
(I.e. Micro is small evolution changes, beaks getting longer etc. Macro is about big changes, growing wings and things).
Moreover, don't fall for that. Micro/macro evolution, irreducible complexity, absence of transitional forms and all the rest of it are window dressing for "intelligent design" which is a pseudo scientific trojan horse for creationism. Fly paper for cranks like FF. I'd have more respect for a paid operative in a St Petersburg troll factory. At least they need the money.0 -
Suppose of all the outstanding MPs none of them wanted the remaining 3? Don't all they have to do is sit on their hands.They may not like Burnham of course but do they have to nominate anyone? They may not be able to agree about anyone or anything else between them.TheWhiteRabbit said:Burnham 51
Cooper 31
Kendall 22
Creagh 6
A total of 110 out of 232 IIRC Labour MPs.
I don't think if Creagh had enough backers she'd wait this late (I know OGH took long odds but I think it's wasted money). Indeed I think Kendall would want to keep herself in this too.0 -
Double Win!logical_song said:
Let's hope that it becomes clear during the campaign, especially to those outside Scotland, that a vote for OUT of the EU is also, in all likelihood, a vote for Scotland to secede.Disraeli said:*Tongue-in-cheek mode on*
I'm not so bothered about the actual question, but we do need to be aware that if Scotland votes differently to the rest of the UK, then Scotland may well feel that they have no alternative but to call another referendum on independence (which I am pretty sure the YES-side will win this time)
Therefore, I think that Scotland should vote separately first, Then the rest of the UK can vote taking the Scotland vote into account.
*Tongue-in-cheek mode off*0 -
I don't think there's anything that says they have to nominate anyone. Someone might be able to correct me, but I doubt it.Flightpathl said:
Suppose of all the outstanding MPs none of them wanted the remaining 3? Don't all they have to do is sit on their hands.They may not like Burnham of course but do they have to nominate anyone? They may not be able to agree about anyone or anything else between them.TheWhiteRabbit said:Burnham 51
Cooper 31
Kendall 22
Creagh 6
A total of 110 out of 232 IIRC Labour MPs.
I don't think if Creagh had enough backers she'd wait this late (I know OGH took long odds but I think it's wasted money). Indeed I think Kendall would want to keep herself in this too.0 -
England could host the World Cup at literally a moment's notice for a summer tournament - the infrastructure, stadia and transport are all there already. The only outstanding problems would be other booking for concerts etc and the ground staff being happy with the pitches. Oh, and the sponsors, but who gives a flying fcuk about them any more.williamglenn said:
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
0 -
Salt Lake still got to hold the Winter Olympics, I don't see why an exception would be made for Qatar. Besides it won't be changed and it is ignorant believe it will be.Sandpit said:
England could host the World Cup at literally a moment's notice for a summer tournament - the infrastructure, stadia and transport are all there already. The only outstanding problems would be other booking for concerts etc and the ground staff being happy with the pitches. Oh, and the sponsors, but who gives a flying fcuk about them any more.williamglenn said:
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
0 -
@ABC: Sources: FIFA Pres. Sepp Blatter being investigated by US as part of alleged corruption case: http://t.co/8noR0Om5Dd http://t.co/OifDbr9BWD0
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A great maiden speech. Very moving.Casino_Royale said:O/T - I found this maiden speech by Johnny Mercer very moving. Particularly on a day like this, when a man's demons may have tragically consumed one of our most pre-eminent national politicians.
If I were a resident of Plymouth Moorview, I would be extraordinarily proud to have Johnny as my MP:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/11646320/Cynical-about-politicians-This-speech-by-Johnny-Mercer-MP-should-make-you-think-again.html
I have had an ex-military patient who was very difficult to manage, unable to sit still, explosive outbursts etc. A loving family was doing the best to cope, but he seemed to be getting very little support for his fairly obvious post traumatic stress disorder.
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@HeidilBlake: Fate of #Qatar2022 in the balance without protection of @SeppBlatter. Sources say bid bosses told not to travel to US http://t.co/IMR8dImvNF0
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The SNP antagonists will be on to this one very quickly. The UNITED KINGDOM will vote on a motion in a referendum. The decision of the UNITED KINGDOM will be taken forward, as a UNITED KINGDOM.GeoffM said:
Double Win!logical_song said:
Let's hope that it becomes clear during the campaign, especially to those outside Scotland, that a vote for OUT of the EU is also, in all likelihood, a vote for Scotland to secede.Disraeli said:*Tongue-in-cheek mode on*
I'm not so bothered about the actual question, but we do need to be aware that if Scotland votes differently to the rest of the UK, then Scotland may well feel that they have no alternative but to call another referendum on independence (which I am pretty sure the YES-side will win this time)
Therefore, I think that Scotland should vote separately first, Then the rest of the UK can vote taking the Scotland vote into account.
*Tongue-in-cheek mode off*
If Scotland wishes to secede again then the UNITED KINGDOM will have to agree to yet another Scottish referendum - or not, as the case may be.0 -
Re Maiden speeches
Here you can find direct links to them (the day after)
https://twitter.com/2015maidens0 -
It's hard to believe that it was just 26 days ago that Ed Miliband was thought of as a suitable person to be leader of the Labour Party.0
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It's a Jowell/Wolmar nomination at Kensington:
Jowell (35) Khan (26) Lammy (8) above the 5 threshold;
Abbott (4) Wolmar (3) Thomas (1) The other nominations.
Edit: Wolmar reports Khan got the Sutton and Cheam 2nd nomination.0 -
You are on a charm offensive this evening, aren't you?FalseFlag said:
Salt Lake still got to hold the Winter Olympics, I don't see why an exception would be made for Qatar. Besides it won't be changed and it is ignorant believe it will be.Sandpit said:
England could host the World Cup at literally a moment's notice for a summer tournament - the infrastructure, stadia and transport are all there already. The only outstanding problems would be other booking for concerts etc and the ground staff being happy with the pitches. Oh, and the sponsors, but who gives a flying fcuk about them any more.williamglenn said:
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
The 2022 World Cup will not take place in Qatar.0 -
Edinburgh, with Alex Salmond in the chair. Blatter would get off, literally Scot Free!Dair said:
Mayve they can offer cities around the world the opportunity to bid for the prestigious role of hosting the extraordinary congress.RobD said:So Blatter resigns, and will call an extraordinary congress to elect his successor. Wasn't there one of those a couple of days ago??
0 -
@SkyNewsBreak: New York Times reports that U.S. officials are investigating Sepp Blatter who resigned as #FIFA president earlier today0
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I am not sure that Russia will either. Pity, I was hoping for a Russia road trip.Ishmael_X said:
You are on a charm offensive this evening, aren't you?FalseFlag said:
Salt Lake still got to hold the Winter Olympics, I don't see why an exception would be made for Qatar. Besides it won't be changed and it is ignorant believe it will be.Sandpit said:
England could host the World Cup at literally a moment's notice for a summer tournament - the infrastructure, stadia and transport are all there already. The only outstanding problems would be other booking for concerts etc and the ground staff being happy with the pitches. Oh, and the sponsors, but who gives a flying fcuk about them any more.williamglenn said:
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
The 2022 World Cup will not take place in Qatar.
Qatar is a dead duck now.0 -
Boo the ComRes poll is being delayed until tomorrow night
Bloody Sepp Blatter0 -
who by?EPG said:It's hard to believe that it was just 26 days ago that Ed Miliband was thought of as a suitable person to be leader of the Labour Party.
even the pb reds knew it - look back it was of course the eternal meme of "eicipm" but it all was built on on the polls, electoral maths, split right & red liberals and of course the superior ground game.
It is astonishing to think how the political world looks now compared to this time last month as we awaited the promised horse-trading of another coalition.0 -
Think you will find that you are the ignorant one.FalseFlag said:
Salt Lake still got to hold the Winter Olympics, I don't see why an exception would be made for Qatar. Besides it won't be changed and it is ignorant believe it will be.Sandpit said:
England could host the World Cup at literally a moment's notice for a summer tournament - the infrastructure, stadia and transport are all there already. The only outstanding problems would be other booking for concerts etc and the ground staff being happy with the pitches. Oh, and the sponsors, but who gives a flying fcuk about them any more.williamglenn said:
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
Besides, what does a caring person like you make of the human rights abuse out there?0 -
Any betting on hosts for 2018/2022 yet?0
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I accidentally clicked on a thread on the day before election day.Scrapheap_as_was said:
who by?EPG said:It's hard to believe that it was just 26 days ago that Ed Miliband was thought of as a suitable person to be leader of the Labour Party.
even the pb reds knew it - look back it was of course the eternal meme of "eicipm" but it all was built on on the polls, electoral maths, split right & red liberals and of course the superior ground game.
It is astonishing to think how the political world looks now compared to this time last month as we awaited the promised horse-trading of another coalition.
The hubris from one or two Lab supporters about their ground game.0 -
Mike Smithson @MSmithsonPB 6m6 minutes ago
Zac Goldsmith now evens favourite with Ladbrokes to become CON candidate for London Mayor
Do they know something we don't?!0 -
I think Qatar might still host the 2022 world cup.
Think about it, 133 out of 200 odd people voted for Sepp Blatter last week, Platini also voted Qatar and well, the two early faves to replace Sepp are from Kuwait and Bahrain.0 -
The Greens pledged to recommend Zac for 2nd preferences IIRC.0
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Can't see Russia being changed but Qatar will be, my money would be on EnglandNeilVW said:Any betting on hosts for 2018/2022 yet?
0 -
The FIFA voting system won't be changed which makes it unlikely the host will be changed and if it were it certainly won't be to us, political and it won't be in Europe.nigel4england said:
Can't see Russia being changed but Qatar will be, my money would be on EnglandNeilVW said:Any betting on hosts for 2018/2022 yet?
0 -
@Fascinatingpics: Blatter’s secret message to the media embedded in his resignation letter. http://t.co/0s9BCjuc0J0
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You do not appear to have tied this all in to Alex Salmond yet.Scott_P said:@HeidilBlake: Fate of #Qatar2022 in the balance without protection of @SeppBlatter. Sources say bid bosses told not to travel to US http://t.co/IMR8dImvNF
I'm sure I am not alone in being very disappointed at this failure on your part.0 -
"accidentally"TheScreamingEagles said:
I accidentally clicked on a thread on the day before election day.Scrapheap_as_was said:
who by?EPG said:It's hard to believe that it was just 26 days ago that Ed Miliband was thought of as a suitable person to be leader of the Labour Party.
even the pb reds knew it - look back it was of course the eternal meme of "eicipm" but it all was built on on the polls, electoral maths, split right & red liberals and of course the superior ground game.
It is astonishing to think how the political world looks now compared to this time last month as we awaited the promised horse-trading of another coalition.
The hubris from one or two Lab supporters about their ground game.
I fear I might have the same happen soon too... one thread especially is the sion simon of pb threads I recall.0 -
Agree with all of that.Sandpit said:
The SNP antagonists will be on to this one very quickly. The UNITED KINGDOM will vote on a motion in a referendum. The decision of the UNITED KINGDOM will be taken forward, as a UNITED KINGDOM.GeoffM said:
Double Win!logical_song said:
Let's hope that it becomes clear during the campaign, especially to those outside Scotland, that a vote for OUT of the EU is also, in all likelihood, a vote for Scotland to secede.Disraeli said:*Tongue-in-cheek mode on*
I'm not so bothered about the actual question, but we do need to be aware that if Scotland votes differently to the rest of the UK, then Scotland may well feel that they have no alternative but to call another referendum on independence (which I am pretty sure the YES-side will win this time)
Therefore, I think that Scotland should vote separately first, Then the rest of the UK can vote taking the Scotland vote into account.
*Tongue-in-cheek mode off*
If Scotland wishes to secede again then the UNITED KINGDOM will have to agree to yet another Scottish referendum - or not, as the case may be.
I'm just getting completely over-excited at the prospect of two good results for the price of one.0 -
The FIFA voting system is corrupt and the bidding process will be proved to be fixed, it will definitely be changed.FalseFlag said:
The FIFA voting system won't be changed which makes it unlikely the host will be changed and if it were it certainly won't be to us, political and it won't be in Europe.nigel4england said:
Can't see Russia being changed but Qatar will be, my money would be on EnglandNeilVW said:Any betting on hosts for 2018/2022 yet?
This whole scandal was first brought to public knowledge by the Sunday Times, FIFA will do anything to keep EUFA and the South American powerhouses on board.
One thing is for sure, it won't be played on whatever planet you are from.0 -
Bye bye Dave.Scrapheap_as_was said:
"accidentally"TheScreamingEagles said:
I accidentally clicked on a thread on the day before election day.Scrapheap_as_was said:
who by?EPG said:It's hard to believe that it was just 26 days ago that Ed Miliband was thought of as a suitable person to be leader of the Labour Party.
even the pb reds knew it - look back it was of course the eternal meme of "eicipm" but it all was built on on the polls, electoral maths, split right & red liberals and of course the superior ground game.
It is astonishing to think how the political world looks now compared to this time last month as we awaited the promised horse-trading of another coalition.
The hubris from one or two Lab supporters about their ground game.
I fear I might have the same happen soon too... one thread especially is the sion simon of pb threads I recall.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/658746/#Comment_658746
One thousand six hundred ...... in one seat
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/658627/#Comment_658627
All about the ground game now.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/658566/#Comment_658566
all polls now looking at Ed being PM.
WELL DONE CROSBY - should have stuck to the economy.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/656177/#Comment_656177
Just short of 50 Lab gains from Con and cherio Dave.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/655927/#Comment_6559270 -
His heart isn't in it, Dair.Dair said:
You do not appear to have tied this all in to Alex Salmond yet.Scott_P said:@HeidilBlake: Fate of #Qatar2022 in the balance without protection of @SeppBlatter. Sources say bid bosses told not to travel to US http://t.co/IMR8dImvNF
I'm sure I am not alone in being very disappointed at this failure on your part.
0 -
New Thread0
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Now, THAT was funnywilliamglenn said:His heart isn't in it, Dair.
0 -
A hotbed of religious fundamentalism, a secondary role for women including practising polygamy, a barren desert reliant on exploiting the natural resources under the ground with often unsafe working conditions.nigel4england said:
Think you will find that you are the ignorant one.FalseFlag said:
Salt Lake still got to hold the Winter Olympics, I don't see why an exception would be made for Qatar. Besides it won't be changed and it is ignorant believe it will be.Sandpit said:
England could host the World Cup at literally a moment's notice for a summer tournament - the infrastructure, stadia and transport are all there already. The only outstanding problems would be other booking for concerts etc and the ground staff being happy with the pitches. Oh, and the sponsors, but who gives a flying fcuk about them any more.williamglenn said:
One possible scenario is that if it is proven that bribes swung the vote for Russia in 2018 against England, it could be decided that it's too late to switch the World Cup in 2018, but it's only fair that England get their turn in 2022. It would be unfortunate/convenient if this meant that Qatar has to be cancelled.Disraeli said:Now that Blatter has gone, does this mean that those who are campaigning against the Qatar world cup have a realistic chance of forcing a re-vote on where to hold the World Cup in 2022?
Besides, what does a caring person like you make of the human rights abuse out there?
Utah really is an unsuitable place for an international sporting event.0 -
We all made embarrassing predictions:TheScreamingEagles said:
I expect Dan Hodges to be largely vindicated. OK, UKIP aren't going to poll as low as 6% and the Tories probably aren't going to get a majority, but I think his essential thesis will stand up - a UKIP squeeze, a late break to the Tories (which the phone polls arguably already have) and Cameron in the 300-310s with Labour lower than last time.
If so, he'll deserve all the kudos he will get [and no doubt the fulsome admissions of misjudgment on here!]. Many of his fellow travellers have wavered and fallen away in the last month!
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/648705/#Comment_6487050 -
plonker, you flatter yourselfSandpit said:
The SNP antagonists will be on to this one very quickly. The UNITED KINGDOM will vote on a motion in a referendum. The decision of the UNITED KINGDOM will be taken forward, as a UNITED KINGDOM.GeoffM said:
Double Win!logical_song said:
Let's hope that it becomes clear during the campaign, especially to those outside Scotland, that a vote for OUT of the EU is also, in all likelihood, a vote for Scotland to secede.Disraeli said:*Tongue-in-cheek mode on*
I'm not so bothered about the actual question, but we do need to be aware that if Scotland votes differently to the rest of the UK, then Scotland may well feel that they have no alternative but to call another referendum on independence (which I am pretty sure the YES-side will win this time)
Therefore, I think that Scotland should vote separately first, Then the rest of the UK can vote taking the Scotland vote into account.
*Tongue-in-cheek mode off*
If Scotland wishes to secede again then the UNITED KINGDOM will have to agree to yet another Scottish referendum - or not, as the case may be.0
