politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 26 days after losing his seat to the SNP Charles Kennedy di

RIP a great politician

Two rules to remember:

1) Correlation =/= causation, and
2) Never speak ill of the dead.

:off-on-holiday:

Did I really hear John Prescott reported as saying that Kennedy got it right over Iraq?

Dair said:

kle4 said:

Dair said:

SouthamObserver said:

runnymede said:

Lots of crocodile tears on here today I expect re. Charles Kennedy - let's not forget how his 'devastated' Lib Dem colleagues first covered up his problems and then pushed him out when he was no longer an asset (in their eyes).

None of which precludes the fact they feel desperately sad about someone they knew well and probably liked very much on a personal level dying well before his time and leaving a young son without a father.

I wonder what the actual ratio is in society might be between people who feel the way you describe and those who do not understand at all why such people would feel particularly emotional about such a thing.

How many people do you think are unable to feel emotions at the death of a longstanding colleague and possibly a close friend, they being the 'such people' in this example?

I think you have misread what "runnymede" wrote. He said "on here".

So where Runnymede was making a point about 'devastated' ld colleagues (colleagues is key, that indicates people who knew Kennedy) treating Kennedy poorly, something for people on here to bear in mind when crying crocodile tears, you were making a pb point?

Southam replied stating ld colleagues who may treated Kennedy poorly re the covering up drinking Runnymede referred to etc did not preclude them feeling sad about his death. He said ' someone they knew well' in relation to Kennedy. That's clearly a reference to people who knew Kennedy feeling sad whatever happened politically.

You then wondered how many of society felt the same or wouldn't understand why those people - in reply to Southam who was talking about ld colleagues of Kennedy - would feel emotional. That gives an implication of thinking some ratio of the public think those colleagues would not feel emotions and therefore that you might be one of those people who thinks that, hence my making it a question not a statement.

I apologise if I have misread your intent but following my chain of thought above I trust you will see the reasoning behind it and genuine confusion. I certainly did not miss runnymeades post, but yours as laid out does not appear to reference the same people.

If you meant to comment on people professing emotion on here that was most unclear given the reference to 'such people' feeling emotional in reply to a post referring to ld colleagues of Kennedy being emotional. You appeared to be referencing an entirely different point.

I thought he had an outside chance of becoming LD leader a second time, he was certainly young enough and he had more goodwill towards him than those LDs who played active roles in the Coalition (their tarnishing may be unfair but it was an electoral fact, as was his popularity).

He stood up for what he thought was right. Easier if you're in charge of a third party rather than a governing one, but still a fine epitaph.

Awful news, and a reminder to enjoy life while we've got it, as I think (despite everything) he mostly did. Just 55! I didn't know him well at all, but he was invariably mellow and pleasant when I talked to him - hard to imagine him ever getting angry and pompous like too many in the profession.

O/T - I see Paul Flynn, who is certainly on the left though very much his own man, has backed Kendall.

Will the musical tribute to Charles Kennedy be as good as this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPCZvYu0QBA

I don't normally do reposts but I thought my previous belonged here rather than the previous thread.

Morning all

Charles Kennedy was only eighteen months or so older than me so his death raises those questions you don't like to think about too much.

I knew him more in the late 80s and early 90s when I was politically quite active in Sutton and elsewhere. I had first met him at a Liberal Assembly when he spoke on the fringe and then he was the only SDP MP who openly supported the merging of the two parties in 1987 (Robert MacLennan came along later in the process).

I was delighted to see him as President of the Liberal Democrats and he was the obvious choice to take over from Paddy in 1999. He may not have has Paddy's relentless energy but he worked hard for the party and I remember him campaigning in Romsey in 2000 to get Sandra Gidley elected.

He came to the Beddington Zero Energy Development (BedZed) soon after it opened and I was invited as a Party member to go along as one of the crowd but it was great to see him and he gave an impromptu address to us afterward which was full of wit and humour.

Much of the real business of Party Conferences (as those who have attended them will know) is done at the bars and the fringe meetings so to see him or another MP at a bar raised no eyebrows back then and I had no idea back then there was any problem.

Charles had the good fortune of leading the Party at a time of unprecdented Conservative weakness and opportunity and his courage in opposing the Iraq War, in the face of vitriolic comments from much of the Press, was incredible and he was able to reach out beyond the normal core Liberal Democrat vote into Labour areas as well as Conservative ones.

2005 was a disappointment - the Conservatives dumped IDS just in time and retreated to their core handing the election to Blair. Had Labour fallen short of a majority - well, I've often wondered what Charles would have done ? The circumstances of his departure from the leadership are well documented and didn't reflect well on the Party but as someone else once said "politics is a rough trade" and it takes no prisoners.

To lose a parent at any time is difficult as I can attest but to lose both a father and to be thrown out of a job after over thirty years must have been doubly hard. Perhaps, instead of gloating at the fall of political opponents, we might ourselves consider these are human beings with all that entails and consider whether their misfortune is really worth all our glee.

RIP Charles Kennedy 1959-2015

PeterC said:

His great political contribution was to stand out against the most catastrophic government decision in living memory, including Suez and appeasement. It's a pity his party stabbed him so ruthlessly once he was down on his personal circumstances.

Any serious political party would have done. I don't think there was some curiously liberal perfidy there. No MP wants to walk towards an election led by someone they perceive as a liability, and that's - rightly and properly - how politics should work. It's not fair to people at an individual level but I think all participants know that. The electorate are certainly capable of unfair and even vindictive decisions. MPs by contrast tend to be more rational - self-preservation is a powerful incentive - but often the logic of self-interest is a harsh one.

For those after tennis tips untainted by the Curse of Morris Dancer, Mr. Manson's posted a few on the previous thread (near the top).

Mr. Manson, where d'you get the head-to-head stats from? Betfair's statistics have returned but offer inferior information compared to their previous form.

@OchEye welcome.

I woke up this morning to hear the 6 o'clock headlines on the Today programme, when they interrupted with this news. Shocking and a big loss.

Very sad news. Arguably the most successful LD leader. His opposition to Iraq provided a vital democratic outlet.

Quite unfair that he didn't get to see his party rebuilt after the coalition (he opposed).

And to those who point out that he was flawed, we all are. Some people are just better at hiding it.

Mr. M, we'll see, I suppose.

*sighs, and returns to the leper colony on the island in the river, hoping the authorities remember to lower a basket of food from the bridge above*

Charles Kennedy was 53 days younger than John Smith.

Strangely, by some oversight, the BBC website front page makes no reference to Mr Kennedy's death, although it leads on the UK News.

Just catching up with the news. Shocking. One of the really good guys has gone.

@flightpath - CK's death is on front page of BBC Website.

Lembit Öpik:

"Charles Kennedy was one of a kind - a gentle soul who never really coped with the pressures of an abrasive career. Heartbreaking news"

https://twitter.com/lembitopik

This letter from Charles Kennedy brings a smile

https://twitter.com/GeorgeAylett/status/605656946457354240

Flightpathl said:

Strangely, by some oversight, the BBC website front page makes no reference to Mr Kennedy's death, although it leads on the UK News.

You may have inadvertently changed your default page on the BBC's news site. CK RIP is and has been for some time the lead story on Home, UK and Politics, and presumably others too, like Scotland, but not on World news.

Sad news, Feel sorry for his little lad.

There must be a lot of MPs who on losing their seat have a real tough time of it. I suspect we often don't hear about their stories.

JonCisBack said:

There must be a lot of MPs who on losing their seat have a real tough time of it. I suspect we often don't hear about their stories.

Most of them have plenty of money saved, a big severance package and lot's of lucrative contacts to help them get high paying job's elsewhere...

It's not exactly the same as being given the sack from your checkout job at Tesco...

TGOHF said:

Scott_P said:

And in the contest of people to make completely inappropriate political comments Matthew Oakeshott was an early contender, only to be overtaken by Alex Salmond on the bend

The favourite wins.

I think Lord Oakeshott's comments as reported in the Daily Mail ("it was the drink that got him") probably wing the race.

Mr. Observer, when was a footballer last penalised, in career terms, for comparable behaviour? [Not my area, so maybe it's a lot/recently].

Mr. Flashman (deceased), perhaps. Maybe we'll find out.

Telegraph
-
CK 40 a day cigarette smoker...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11645121/Charles-Kennedy-obituary.html

dr_spyn said:

Telegraph
-
CK 40 a day cigarette smoker...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/11645121/Charles-Kennedy-obituary.html

I think I read something the other day on Guido complaining about the nanny police of ASH. I agree with the complaints by the way.
But...

AndyJS said:

Lord Steel says Charles Kennedy wasn't expecting to lose his seat:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-32964600

"Former Liberal leader David Steel says he will miss Mr Kennedy as a "very dear friend" who was "great fun to be with".

He says Mr Kennedy "understood" the rise of the SNP in Scotland, but "wasn't expecting to be swept away by it" at the election.

"I know that from the conversation I had with him just before the election but, you know, that's politics. That happened and he was just swept away in the tide.""

Given the eulogies for Kennedy and his separation from the LD coalition tendency, then perhaps it gives an idea of how thoughtless the SNP 'tide' is.

Charles Kennedy seems to have been a man literally consumed by politics. My condolences to all those on here who knew him, and my thoughts are most especially with his son.

Earlier the BBC were running the clip of Kennedy’s speech after the count when he expressed concern not only for colleagues who had lost their seats, but for his, and their staff, who would now have to look for jobs.

GIN1138 said:

JonCisBack said:

There must be a lot of MPs who on losing their seat have a real tough time of it. I suspect we often don't hear about their stories.

Most of them have plenty of money saved, a big severance package and lot's of lucrative contacts to help them get high paying job's elsewhere...

It's not exactly the same as being given the sack from your checkout job at Tesco...

Yes and no. The difficulty is that there is only one UK Parliament - if you lose a job at Tesco, it's a serious blow but at least Sainsbury might have an opening. It's not obvious what MPs can do next unless they have deliberately or accidentally gained useful contacts while in Parliament (which the less prominent MPs probably haven't). Their former careers aren't necessarily still open to them - e.g. if they worked in IT 10-15 year earlier, they'll be ludicrously out of date. I was lucky, but I know people who weren't and have basically been out of work for a decade.

I used to be on the panel which helped former MPs and their families in difficulty (there's a levy on current MPs which funds this). People from before the period of good pensions and high payouts (which were I think introduced in the 70s and curtailed after 2010 - you now get two months' pay, I think) were often in real trouble. We were appalled to get requests for tiny sums (to repair a broken window, that sort of thing) from the widow of a former Prime Minister, who was living in utmost poverty in her 90s.

I shouldn't think these aspects were an issue for Charlie and I'm just responding to GIN rather than making any sort of comparison, but abruptly losing an apparently safe job is always a nasty shock, and it can't have helped his situation.

NickPalmer said:

GIN1138 said:

JonCisBack said:

There must be a lot of MPs who on losing their seat have a real tough time of it. I suspect we often don't hear about their stories.

Most of them have plenty of money saved, a big severance package and lot's of lucrative contacts to help them get high paying job's elsewhere...

It's not exactly the same as being given the sack from your checkout job at Tesco...

Yes and no. The difficulty is that there is only one UK Parliament - if you lose a job at Tesco, it's a serious blow but at least Sainsbury might have an opening. It's not obvious what MPs can do next unless they have deliberately or accidentally gained useful contacts while in Parliament (which the less prominent MPs probably haven't). Their former careers aren't necessarily still open to them - e.g. if they worked in IT 10-15 year earlier, they'll be ludicrously out of date. I was lucky, but I know people who weren't and have basically been out of work for a decade.

I used to be on the panel which helped former MPs and their families in difficulty (there's a levy on current MPs which funds this). People from before the period of good pensions and high payouts (which were I think introduced in the 70s and curtailed after 2010 - you now get two months' pay, I think) were often in real trouble. We were appalled to get requests for tiny sums (to repair a broken window, that sort of thing) from the widow of a former Prime Minister, who was living in utmost poverty in her 90s.

I shouldn't think these aspects were an issue for Charlie and I'm just responding to GIN rather than making any sort of comparison, but abruptly losing an apparently safe job is always a nasty shock, and it can't have helped his situation.

Thanks for that.

Wasn’t it one of the Militant MP’s who was seen queuing up at the JobCentre a couple of weeks after being defeated. Think he’s someone else’s researcher now.

RIP Charles Kennedy.

Didn't agree with him on his stance on the pro EU and on immigration but we proberly on same page on social justice.

The man turned out to be a giant in politics on the Iraq war debate and his party were wrong in my view of getting rid of a principled politician leader who had his troubles.

NickPalmer said:

GIN1138 said:

JonCisBack said:

There must be a lot of MPs who on losing their seat have a real tough time of it. I suspect we often don't hear about their stories.

Most of them have plenty of money saved, a big severance package and lot's of lucrative contacts to help them get high paying job's elsewhere...

It's not exactly the same as being given the sack from your checkout job at Tesco...

Yes and no. The difficulty is that there is only one UK Parliament - if you lose a job at Tesco, it's a serious blow but at least Sainsbury might have an opening. It's not obvious what MPs can do next unless they have deliberately or accidentally gained useful contacts while in Parliament (which the less prominent MPs probably haven't). Their former careers aren't necessarily still open to them - e.g. if they worked in IT 10-15 year earlier, they'll be ludicrously out of date. I was lucky, but I know people who weren't and have basically been out of work for a decade.

I used to be on the panel which helped former MPs and their families in difficulty (there's a levy on current MPs which funds this). People from before the period of good pensions and high payouts (which were I think introduced in the 70s and curtailed after 2010 - you now get two months' pay, I think) were often in real trouble. We were appalled to get requests for tiny sums (to repair a broken window, that sort of thing) from the widow of a former Prime Minister, who was living in utmost poverty in her 90s.

I shouldn't think these aspects were an issue for Charlie and I'm just responding to GIN rather than making any sort of comparison, but abruptly losing an apparently safe job is always a nasty shock, and it can't have helped his situation.

All the best in the future Mr Palmer.

DecrepitJohnL said:

Flightpathl said:

Strangely, by some oversight, the BBC website front page makes no reference to Mr Kennedy's death, although it leads on the UK News.

You may have inadvertently changed your default page on the BBC's news site. CK RIP is and has been for some time the lead story on Home, UK and Politics, and presumably others too, like Scotland, but not on World news.

I am abroad, maybe that has something to do with it. Its on the UK news pages. Maybe that and using a tablet is the issue. Not intending a criticism of the bbc, on this at any rate. It just seemed strange. Currently it is a lower down news item, still below the Chinese tragedy.

AndyJS said:

Lord Oakeshott has made some comments which probably could have waited a bit.

Salmond's comment was not only insensitive and crass, it was also apparently untrue.

All the best in the future Mr Palmer.

Seconded. NP has made many patient and thorough replies to at times hostile questions.

Scott_P said:

And in the contest of people to make completely inappropriate political comments Matthew Oakeshott was an early contender, only to be overtaken by Alex Salmond on the bend

Next you will be saying it was the SNP wot done it. Give it a rest you plank.

Fishing said:

Sad news. Especially as always for his family.

Just a random, pointless anecdote, but I saw him once when I was walking in Parliament Sq just by the security barriers in 2006 or thenabouts. I said "Good morning, Mr Kennedy" and he said "Good morning" back. I was with an American friend, showing him the sights, and he was surprised that a party leader would walk around without a bodyguard.

Politically of course he was a might-have-been, popular and principled, but, like so many, destroyed by bad luck and a lack of self-control. We will of course never know how he would have handled the 2010 negotiations had he been in Clegg's position.

Like others, I enjoyed his appearances on HIGNFY.

I remember seeing Robin Cook sat alone in the corner of the bar in Paddington Station, when Labour were in opposition pre 1997. Being free to move about unmolested is a good point when you look at what has just happened to Carswell. Also let's not forget as Ashdown points out that Kennedy was elected at 23. He never had a life outside politics which is the usual pointless refrain we always hear.

The birth of Jesus the Sawfish:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32958033

TheScreamingEagles said:

England = Ed Miliband

I see joe 'we can win' root is out,pathetic.

Morris_Dancer said:

The birth of Jesus the Sawfish:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32958033

Why do I get the feeling that some evolution denying religious people are going to use this as evidence for creationism?

Tykejohnno said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

England = Ed Miliband

I see joe 'we can win' root is out,pathetic.

Someone was backing them at around 28-1 this morning...

Ballance and Bell are looking to be a real problem for England.

Who could we pick instead, I wonder...??

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/team-miliband-said-we-must-not-underestimate-eoin-clarke/

They would have been much better listening to another less followed Labourite internet twitter troll.

Scrapheap_as_was said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Scrapheap_as_was said:

I win nearly £500 if the match ends before lunch or £40 green if before tea.

Stick your winnings on Sol Campbell being the Tory candidate for London Mayor!

i'd rather back arsenal to win the champs league and PL double next year

I'm sticking it all on the Aussies winning the Ashes 5 nil, 11/1

http://www.oddschecker.com/cricket/ashes/test/series-correct-score