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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 26 days after losing his seat to the SNP Charles Kennedy di

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  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Barnesian said:

    An insightful & sensitive piece from Al Campbell.

    http://tinyurl.com/qjvrpm8

    AC goes up in my estimation. Lovely genuine piece.
    Yes I agree, he has risen in my estimation too, albeit from an incredibly low start point.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,937

    Re the conversation between Mr Palmer and Gin
    I do not particularly complain at MPs salaries or expenses or severance. Not only of course is it an unsure future but it also takes time and dedication to get a seat and get elected.

    I can live with MPs' current salary arrangements,though fixing at the 90th percentile would be my choice.

    A far bigger issue is that they routinely shred evidence of potential crime.

    The crooks who went to prison were caught due to unredacted expenses records being stolen and sold to the Telegraph, the MPs having fought tooth and nail for years to keep them secret.

    The Commons Authorities still shred receipts rather than archive them and make them public.

    That is unacceptable and an incentive for fraud. Cultures of secrecy are not acceptable.

    Until that changes, the feet need to be kept to the fire.

    (Open to correction, but I think I am right).

  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Somebody send for the Burnley Lara!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    Don't talk rubbish , saying he did not think his heart was in the Bitter Together campaign is nothing bad.

    It's not true, and even if it was today was not the day to say it

    Only the CyberNats can't see what an arse Salmond has shown himself to be. Again.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    O/t but more welcome news from the Beeb: "Eight men have been arrested in a series of dawn raids in Oxford on suspicion of offences related to child sexual exploitation.”

    Just maybe some chickens are coming home to roost!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Barnesian said:

    An insightful & sensitive piece from Al Campbell.

    http://tinyurl.com/qjvrpm8

    AC goes up in my estimation. Lovely genuine piece.
    Yes I agree, he has risen in my estimation too, albeit from an incredibly low start point.

    Even scum can be heartfelt occasionally.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @fatshez: I understand that Alex Salmond has said something stupid and hurtful. What does anyone expect?

    @jamesrbuk: Stay classy, Salmond. http://t.co/6wqUnuisnB

    @MShapland: The Idea Salmond would question Kennedys belief in the Union as part of a 'tribute' tells me all I need to know about the despicable Nats

    @paulwaugh: From my own contact with him, Charles Kennedy's heart was very much "in" the campaign to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

    @schofieldkevin: Please tell me he hasn't said this today ..... https://t.co/y0SRaxXr9w
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    malcolmg said:

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Give it a rest you plank.

    Perhaps better addressed to Mr Salmond, Malc.


    Don't talk rubbish , saying he did not think his heart was in the Bitter Together campaign is nothing bad. Only lowlifes like you , Scott and TGOHF could try and make that out, obsessed with SNP = BAD. Sad bunch for sure.
    Wait now, the Loyalists are whining about Salmond suggesting that Kennedy's heart wasn't in the Better Together campaign?! Lolz.

    'Charles Kennedy brands Better Together campaign as “stupid”'

    http://tinyurl.com/l9gnjco


  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Look left, look right, and left again.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/learner-driver-has-narrow-escape-as-car-crushed-by-british-tank-10291391.html

    How can she have missed not seeing a Challenger II?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    I shouldn't think these aspects were an issue for Charlie and I'm just responding to GIN rather than making any sort of comparison, but abruptly losing an apparently safe job is always a nasty shock, and it can't have helped his situation.

    For Charles Kennedy, who had been an MP for nearly all of his adult life, it's more than just losing a job. For someone like him, politics would have been all-consuming and central to his identity. Very sad news.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    dr_spyn said:

    Look left, look right, and left again.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/learner-driver-has-narrow-escape-as-car-crushed-by-british-tank-10291391.html

    How can she have missed not seeing a Challenger II?

    Answer highlighted in bold.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    edited June 2015
    MPs Standards watchdog launches a formal inquiry into Carmichael - Times ticker
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Scott_P said:

    @fatshez: I understand that Alex Salmond has said something stupid and hurtful. What does anyone expect?

    @jamesrbuk: Stay classy, Salmond. http://t.co/6wqUnuisnB

    @MShapland: The Idea Salmond would question Kennedys belief in the Union as part of a 'tribute' tells me all I need to know about the despicable Nats

    @paulwaugh: From my own contact with him, Charles Kennedy's heart was very much "in" the campaign to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

    @schofieldkevin: Please tell me he hasn't said this today ..... https://t.co/y0SRaxXr9w

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    @fatshez: I understand that Alex Salmond has said something stupid and hurtful. What does anyone expect?

    @jamesrbuk: Stay classy, Salmond. http://t.co/6wqUnuisnB

    @MShapland: The Idea Salmond would question Kennedys belief in the Union as part of a 'tribute' tells me all I need to know about the despicable Nats

    @paulwaugh: From my own contact with him, Charles Kennedy's heart was very much "in" the campaign to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

    @schofieldkevin: Please tell me he hasn't said this today ..... https://t.co/y0SRaxXr9w

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach
    Even a roach is higher than a Nat.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach

    I look down on Alex Salmond
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited June 2015
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach

    I look down on Alex Salmond
    Plankton and amoeba look down on Salmond.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited June 2015
    If anyone has missed Alastair Campbell's excellent and very moving piece about Charles Kennedy, here is a link:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/02/charles-kennedy-alastair-campbell-lovely-man-a-talented-politician-a-great-friend

    Also shows what an excellent writer Campbell can be.
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420
    edited June 2015
    dr_spyn said:

    Look left, look right, and left again.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/learner-driver-has-narrow-escape-as-car-crushed-by-british-tank-10291391.html

    How can she have missed not seeing a Challenger II?

    Because she was driving on the incorrect side of the road I would expect! :)

    :off-on-holiday-really-now:
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    watford30 said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach

    I look down on Alex Salmond
    Plankton and amoeba look down on Salmond.
    A pedant writes

    amoebae
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    well england are exceeding my expectations.... which were not particularly high
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    dr_spyn said:

    Look left, look right, and left again.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/learner-driver-has-narrow-escape-as-car-crushed-by-british-tank-10291391.html

    How can she have missed not seeing a Challenger II?

    ISTR there was a case ten or twenty years ago when a civilian got injured when a tank crossed a public road at speed against regulations somewhere on Salisbury Plain. I daresay someone'll know more, but I think the driver misplaced the tank's position, and thought the road was just a military track.

    Ouch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,987
    TSE The middle option 55-45, exactly the same as indyref
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    watford30 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    @fatshez: I understand that Alex Salmond has said something stupid and hurtful. What does anyone expect?

    @jamesrbuk: Stay classy, Salmond. http://t.co/6wqUnuisnB

    @MShapland: The Idea Salmond would question Kennedys belief in the Union as part of a 'tribute' tells me all I need to know about the despicable Nats

    @paulwaugh: From my own contact with him, Charles Kennedy's heart was very much "in" the campaign to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

    @schofieldkevin: Please tell me he hasn't said this today ..... https://t.co/y0SRaxXr9w

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach
    Even a roach is higher than a Nat.
    The loonies are crawling out from under their rocks this morning.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,509
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach

    I look down on Alex Salmond
    Dream on loser
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    watford30 said:

    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach

    I look down on Alex Salmond
    Plankton and amoeba look down on Salmond.
    To use today to spin a nasty political angle is pretty low - but entirely unsurprising.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    The loonies are crawling out from under their rocks this morning.

    And giving nasty press statements. Numpty.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PippaCrerar: Not sure how wise it is for Alex Salmond to try to make political capital out of Charles Kennedy's death. https://t.co/OCs4iA8owh
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Coming straight after his remarks about Murphy after his resignation - why is anyone surprised ?

  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    you really are lower in the food chain than a cockroach

    I look down on Alex Salmond
    I always suspected you didn't know the difference between up and down.

    Thanks for the confirmation.
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    Those being political are those using the tragic death of Charles Kennedy to attack Alex Salmond.

    I saw Salmond interviewed on Sky News this morning and nothing he said was other than in praise of Kennedy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/team-miliband-said-we-must-not-underestimate-eoin-clarke/

    They would have been much better listening to another less followed Labourite internet twitter troll.

    It was sad to see Nick Palmer retweeting some guff by Eoin Clarke during the election campaign. He might have been better staying away, given the latter's rather long apology to Soubry:

    http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/corrections-concerning-ms-anna-soubry-mp.html
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Come along, chaps, let's not bicker and argue about who said what. This is meant to be a happy website.

    Stop being mean to one another at once, or you shall force me to tip England and Scotland to win the rugby world cup. And you wouldn't want that now, would you?
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Scott_P said:

    malcolmg said:

    The loonies are crawling out from under their rocks this morning.

    And giving nasty press statements. Numpty.
    There was nothing nasty in Salmond's heartfelt, warm and eloquent eulogy of Mr Kennedy.

    I do find it strange how remote you seem to be from a basic understanding of the English language. Salmond was aggressively interviewed (quite out of place in the circumstances) by a reporter trying to get him to view Kennedy as "the enemy". As ever, Salmond was eloquent and magnanimous and did not rise to the interviewers blatant goading, instead giving a clear, concise, sincere answer.
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    dr_spyn said:

    Look left, look right, and left again.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/learner-driver-has-narrow-escape-as-car-crushed-by-british-tank-10291391.html

    How can she have missed not seeing a Challenger II?

    Effective camouflage?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    TGOHF said:

    Coming straight after his remarks about Murphy after his resignation - why is anyone surprised ?

    Nobody is surprised, that is the tragedy.

    On a day when even Alastair fucking Campbell has found words that have been universally praised, Alex Salmond has found a way to make himself look like an arse.

    He is a National embarrassment.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    TGOHF said:

    Coming straight after his remarks about Murphy after his resignation - why is anyone surprised ?

    I'm surprised you have the time to post illogical nonsense about Salmond when you should be preparing for #OrangeFest
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dair said:

    TGOHF said:

    Coming straight after his remarks about Murphy after his resignation - why is anyone surprised ?

    I'm surprised you have the time to post illogical nonsense about Salmond when you should be preparing for #OrangeFest
    I'm a Jaffa after the op.

    NZ at 1.45 with 5 down - what am I missing ? Rain ?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Make that 1.49...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,968
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), rain? In Yorkshire? 'tis unheard of!

    It's pretty dark here, actually (fair way from Headingley, must be said). Looks like showers could happen at any minute.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited June 2015
    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Coming straight after his remarks about Murphy after his resignation - why is anyone surprised ?

    Nobody is surprised, that is the tragedy.

    On a day when even Alastair fucking Campbell has found words that have been universally praised, Alex Salmond has found a way to make himself look like an arse.

    He is a National embarrassment.
    Alastair Campbell accused Kennedy of being a traitor to his party, considering splitting and forming a new organisation and putting Kennedy in bed with the enemy in working closely with Campbell on his re-election campaign.

    But then, self-reflection isn't a strong Unionist trait, so it's not surprising that you are blind to your hypocrisy.
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    Lovely comment from the SNP LEADER on Charles Kennedy which I an sure all can endorse:

    "I am deeply saddened to hear of the death of Charles Kennedy and my thoughts today are with his family, friends and party colleagues who will all be devastated by his passing. Charles was a hugely well-respected and well-liked man.

    He was without doubt one of the towering political talents of his generation – a sharp debater, who deployed knowledge, experience and wit to wonderful effect. He will be remembered – amongst his many other achievements – for his principled opposition to the war in Iraq and leading his party to its best ever election result.

    Charles devoted his life to serving Scotland and his beloved Highlands. His passion for making our country a better place to live is his lasting legacy. I am proud to have known Charles Kennedy and our country today is the poorer for his passing".
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    Scott_P said:

    @PippaCrerar: Not sure how wise it is for Alex Salmond to try to make political capital out of Charles Kennedy's death. https://t.co/OCs4iA8owh

    Salmond is still looking for reasons as to why he lost the referendum and incidentally the leadership of the SNP.

    Sturgeon is doing too well at the moment, politically, cleaning up the reputation of the SNP by neutralising the CyberNATs and maintaining discipline within the Party in local organisations, councillors, MSP's and MP's, for the come back kid to triumphantly return again.

    However, he will be sticking the metaphorical pins into the Sturgeon doll, more in hope probably but where there's a will, a way may open.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 25m25 minutes ago
    Alex Salmond is wrong. I covered Charles Kennedy's #indyref campaigning last September. He wanted to keep the Union.

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Dair said:

    Scott_P said:

    TGOHF said:

    Coming straight after his remarks about Murphy after his resignation - why is anyone surprised ?

    Nobody is surprised, that is the tragedy.

    On a day when even Alastair fucking Campbell has found words that have been universally praised, Alex Salmond has found a way to make himself look like an arse.

    He is a National embarrassment.
    But then, self-reflection isn't a strong Unionist trait, so it's not surprising that you are blind to your hypocrisy.
    Got a mirror, hun?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Not just wrong; actively distorting the truth for apparent political advantage. Of course, he has form

    @christopherhope: Alex Salmond is being rightly castigated for his appalling reaction to Charles Kennedy's sudden death hours ago: http://t.co/PKf2CKThaz
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    Another MP endorses Burnham

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXXj6-VkZt0
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    edited June 2015

    Dair said:

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 25m25 minutes ago
    Alex Salmond is wrong. I covered Charles Kennedy's #indyref campaigning last September. He wanted to keep the Union.

    Which is what Salmond said in his eulogy.

    What he said was that his heart was not in the Bitter Together campaign. This is not uncommon amongst those who do not despite Scotland but wished to maintain the Union. Bitter Together was a predominantly anti-Scottish campaign filled with lies, smears and logical fallacies designed to petrify pensioners and terrify everyone else.

    Saying a Unionist's heart was not in Bitter Together is amongst the highest praise a Unionist can have bestowed upon them. Bitter Together is one thing - the calling cry of the "Union no matter what" brigade. I'm sure they will be celebrating it at #OrangeFest
  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911

    If anyone has missed Alastair Campbell's excellent and very moving piece about Charles Kennedy, here is a link:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/02/charles-kennedy-alastair-campbell-lovely-man-a-talented-politician-a-great-friend

    Also shows what an excellent writer Campbell can be.

    Spare me.

    The man scripted almost-tears for Blair when Diana died and was happy to send our troops to war on a lie. Pass this sick bag

    Campbell is odious
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Quite, he's in a similar bracket to Mr McBride. I refuse to read anything about them or their views.

    If anyone has missed Alastair Campbell's excellent and very moving piece about Charles Kennedy, here is a link:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/02/charles-kennedy-alastair-campbell-lovely-man-a-talented-politician-a-great-friend

    Also shows what an excellent writer Campbell can be.

    Spare me.

    The man scripted almost-tears for Blair when Diana died and was happy to send our troops to war on a lie. Pass this sick bag

    Campbell is odious
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Dair said:

    What he said was that his heart was not in the Bitter Together campaign.

    He lied. About a dead man. For personal political gain.

    Arse.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,168
    edited June 2015

    Dair said:

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 25m25 minutes ago
    Alex Salmond is wrong. I covered Charles Kennedy's #indyref campaigning last September. He wanted to keep the Union.

    One would have to be a simpleton to be unable to distinguish between Better Together and a belief in the Union. It's quite conceivable that someone could be a committed Unionist and not have their heart in the 'stupid' Better Together campaign. Indeed, who could be heartfelt about a campaign that managed to lose more than half its lead, destroyed two of the three political parties leading it, provided a landslide for the main party opposing it and turned 45% of the electorate into committed supporters of independence?
  • PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @PBModerator Any chance of a new thread?
  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 25m25 minutes ago
    Alex Salmond is wrong. I covered Charles Kennedy's #indyref campaigning last September. He wanted to keep the Union.

    Which is what Salmond said in his eulogy.

    What he said was that his heart was not in the Bitter Together campaign. This is not uncommon amongst those who do not despite Scotland but wished to maintain the Union. Bitter Together was a predominantly anti-Scottish campaign filled with lies, smears and logical fallacies designed to petrify pensioners and terrify everyone else.

    Saying a Unionist's heart was not in Bitter Together is amongst the highest praise a Unionist can have bestowed upon them. Bitter Together is one thing - the calling cry of the "Union no matter what" brigade. I'm sure they will be celebrating it at #OrangeFest
    1) Is there any other evidence - apart from your hero Salmond's claims - that Mr Kennedy's heart was not in the "Bitter Together" (as you call it) campaign?
    2) "Bitter Together was a predominantly anti-Scottish campaign filled with lies, smears and logical fallacies designed to petrify pensioners and terrify everyone else."
    Are you claiming that the "YES" campaign did not have any "lies, smears and logical fallacies"?
  • Bond_James_BondBond_James_Bond Posts: 1,939
    I wonder who'll anything nice to say about Salmond when his turn comes, aside from other Nats? Nobody, I would guess.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,569

    Come along, chaps, let's not bicker and argue about who said what. This is meant to be a happy website.

    Agreed. It's unwise to be drawn into suggesting that someone's opinions are rather like one's own just after he's no longer able to rebut them, but SNP-haters are too quick on the draw too. This thread is about Charles Kennedy, not about who said what to whose advantage.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108
    Plato said:

    @PBModerator Any chance of a new thread?

    Yes I think it would be appropriate. I would suggest a thread entitled "Can support for #orangefest by Glasgow's Labour Council lead to a SLAB revival?"
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited June 2015

    I wonder who'll anything nice to say about Salmond when his turn comes, aside from other Nats? Nobody, I would guess.

    A eulogy for Alec 'Mr Creosote' Salmond? Hotel and restaurant owners from around the World will no doubt have a kind word or two, about their sad loss of custom.
  • DairDair Posts: 6,108

    I wonder who'll anything nice to say about Salmond when his turn comes, aside from other Nats? Nobody, I would guess.

    The President of a country tend to get nice words from all round the world when they depart this mortal coil.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited June 2015
    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    I've just been watching a few of Kennedy's speeches on YouTube. He was certainly a good orator back in the 1990s and early 2000s; far better than I recall. Clear, slow speech, focussed and intelligent.

    It's a little sad to see him in 1992; he looked so fresh-faced.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 25m25 minutes ago
    Alex Salmond is wrong. I covered Charles Kennedy's #indyref campaigning last September. He wanted to keep the Union.

    Which is what Salmond said in his eulogy.

    What he said was that his heart was not in the Bitter Together campaign. This is not uncommon amongst those who do not despite Scotland but wished to maintain the Union. Bitter Together was a predominantly anti-Scottish campaign filled with lies, smears and logical fallacies designed to petrify pensioners and terrify everyone else.
    More or less what your lot will be doing in the EU referendum debate.

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
    Also Kerry from Bristol and Kate from Vauxhall.
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    and Kerry McCarthy.

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    Disraeli said:

    Dair said:

    Dair said:

    Alex Massie on Kennedy & Better Together:

    The Better Together campaign dearly wished Charlie Kennedy could have played a leading role in last year’s referendum campaign, if only to present a more human, more charming, more relaxed kind of Unionism. Alas, it was not to be. Not because Kennedy was soft on the national question – no matter what Alex Salmond, rather contemptibly, says today – but because he was in no state to play that part.

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2015/06/charles-kennedy-1959-2015/

    There's really only two possible explanations for this.

    Either Massie is lying and knows full well Kennedy did not view Bitter Together as a cause he wanted to entertain.

    Or Kennedy's physical health was already breaking down in 2014 and for his party to expect him to continue on should be subject for a proper enquiry after a suitable period of time has passed.
    You missed the third - that Salmond is mistaken:

    Christopher Hope ‏@christopherhope 25m25 minutes ago
    Alex Salmond is wrong. I covered Charles Kennedy's #indyref campaigning last September. He wanted to keep the Union.

    Which is what Salmond said in his eulogy.

    What he said was that his heart was not in the Bitter Together campaign. This is not uncommon amongst those who do not despite Scotland but wished to maintain the Union. Bitter Together was a predominantly anti-Scottish campaign filled with lies, smears and logical fallacies designed to petrify pensioners and terrify everyone else.

    Saying a Unionist's heart was not in Bitter Together is amongst the highest praise a Unionist can have bestowed upon them. Bitter Together is one thing - the calling cry of the "Union no matter what" brigade. I'm sure they will be celebrating it at #OrangeFest
    1) Is there any other evidence - apart from your hero Salmond's claims - that Mr Kennedy's heart was not in the "Bitter Together" (as you call it) campaign?
    2) "Bitter Together was a predominantly anti-Scottish campaign filled with lies, smears and logical fallacies designed to petrify pensioners and terrify everyone else."
    Are you claiming that the "YES" campaign did not have any "lies, smears and logical fallacies"?
    Any chance that Kennedy was just plain old-fashioned “not feeling himself”?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,871
    Anyway, I have very different views to those Charles Kennedy held, but I'm very sad about his untimely death. He seems to have been a kind man who was widely respected.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,721
    England 119-5. Where’s the rain god when you need him?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Charles said:

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
    Also Kerry from Bristol and Kate from Vauxhall.
    This might be controversial, but I don't see Vauxhall as 'south': it is London. And I've also never really seen Bristol as the south either, although I couldn't really tell you what it should be. It's too near both Wales, the Severn and the Cotswolds, none of which I see as being 'south'.

    But that's probably more my issue than Bristol's. ;-)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
    Also Kerry from Bristol and Kate from Vauxhall.
    This might be controversial, but I don't see Vauxhall as 'south': it is London. And I've also never really seen Bristol as the south either, although I couldn't really tell you what it should be. It's too near both Wales, the Severn and the Cotswolds, none of which I see as being 'south'.

    But that's probably more my issue than Bristol's. ;-)
    Is it south of the river or north of the park?

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,981
    New Thread
  • OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    Charles said:

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
    Also Kerry from Bristol and Kate from Vauxhall.
    This might be controversial, but I don't see Vauxhall as 'south': it is London. And I've also never really seen Bristol as the south either, although I couldn't really tell you what it should be. It's too near both Wales, the Severn and the Cotswolds, none of which I see as being 'south'.

    But that's probably more my issue than Bristol's. ;-)
    London stands as its own category.

    Bristol would make a fine capital for the newly devolved region of Wessex.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,504
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    New endorsements for Burnham


    Alan Whitehead (Southampton Test)
    Bill Esterson (Sefton Central)
    Clive Betts (Sheffield SE)
    Chris Matheson (Chester)
    Derek Twigg (Halton)
    Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East)
    Liz McInnes (Heywood and Middleton)
    Mary Glindon (North Tyneside)
    Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead)
    Wayne David (Caerphilly)
    Albert Owen (Ynys Mon)
    Iain Wright (Hartlepool)
    Nia Grrifth (Llanelli)
    Kate Hoey (Vauxhall)
    Ian Mearns (Gateshead)
    Paul Farrelly (Newcastle under Lyme)

    So Alan Whitehead's Burnham's much-needed southern endorsement?
    Also Kerry from Bristol and Kate from Vauxhall.
    This might be controversial, but I don't see Vauxhall as 'south': it is London. And I've also never really seen Bristol as the south either, although I couldn't really tell you what it should be. It's too near both Wales, the Severn and the Cotswolds, none of which I see as being 'south'.

    But that's probably more my issue than Bristol's. ;-)
    Is it south of the river or north of the park?

    East of the river, and northwest of the southern end of the park. ;-)

    There are some truly superb villages at the southern end of the Cotswolds, to the south of Bath. South Stoke perhaps wrongly comes to mind.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    Dair said:

    I wonder who'll anything nice to say about Salmond when his turn comes, aside from other Nats? Nobody, I would guess.

    The President of a country tend to get nice words from all round the world when they depart this mortal coil.
    So Salmond as a lowly back bencher from a backwater will get nothing.
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    I'm going against the grain here, and I expect the usual odium will be drenched on me.
    However here goes.

    I never liked Charles Kennedy when he was alive and I refuse too heap eulogies of saintly-hood on him now he's dead. Alive, he was a so, so, moderate leader, a lefty who would have done better in the Labour Party. He had an engaging smile? Well many people have and they are bastards underneath.

    As they say in Braavos "valar morghulis - all men must die". That he died young for these days is a shame, but thats life.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    As Charles Kennedy said of himself, he put people before party - and that was true.

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