There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
Indeed so, but that dislike is irrational (you are a prime example of the phenomenon!). Therefore, the alternative is always going to be disappointing, because there is no better alternative. Either you overcome the dislike, or you'll be for ever searching around for a non-existent alternative which somehow manages to combine being 'nicer' or 'fairer' with actually doing what needs to be done.
That alternative doesn't exist. You end up with Labour, all spin and no substance. It's not that Miliband and Darling and Blair and even Brown are stupid, it's the fundamental clash with reality which will repeatedly disappoint you.
As we say, the facts of life are conservative.
Yep conservatives certainly believe that the facts of life are conservative. Nobody else does though and it's 23 years and waiting since an election victory.
Labour are unlikely to gain a majority next week, which would mean that they have been unable to win an election without Tony Blair leading the party, since 1974.
If the polls prove correct, Labour are going to be wiped out, and henceforth unelectable, in south east England, south west England, central south England, East Anglia, and Scotland. And of course they do not exist in northern Ireland.
They are being reduced to the party of London, Wales, and scattered parts of the north and Midlands. And that's it.
If Plaid and UKIP up their game, in Wales and WWC England, it is possible to see Labour disappearing forever as a significant party of government.
There is a large block of centre left voters in England and millions more in the centre. As a consequence, a sensible, credible Labour party will always have a chance. Labour was wiped out in all the places in England you mention 30 years ago, but came back. Scotland is another matter.
And If, as the polls suggest Labour is wiped out north of the border, will it take another 30 years to rebuild there IYO?
I doubt it. A new leader, a recession and things could change quickly. Why wouldn't they?
It's worth remembering that even with Scotland gone, Ed in charge and the economy improving, we are talking about a very fragile Tory majority on a 37% vote share, at best. There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
I think there's pretty clear polling evidence that England leans centre/centre-right. It's the patriotism, desire for civil liberties, home ownership and preference for individual personal autonomy that swings it. Together with a lot of history and not a bit of culture.
But, you're correct. "The Tories" - as a brand - pushes too many buttons with English voters about the class system, arrogance, pomposity, inherited wealth, landed gentry, and privilege.
And that puts people off. Not that I agree with all those prejudices mind.
Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) 28/04/2015 14:29 Don't be jealous Dave - I'll run into you at West Ham - when you're not busy with "ordinary people" pic.twitter.com/wB1Paq9xHV
Good Twitter today was Ed meets Russell about poverty and then Russell goes back to his 3 million mansion and Ed goes back to his 199,999.99p mansion
Harsh but fair....
:-)
I don't like Russell Brand, and I don't want Ed Miliband to be our Prime Minister, but...
Opposition leader meets the most popular person who talks about politics in the country with people under 30, and said personality endorses his party/tweets negatively to 9.5m about the PM
I don't think it can hurt Labours chances
I agree. He is a fool, but a fool with a following.
I've seen Brand a few times at the Edinburgh fringe. The first time was literally with one man and a goat- and he went off his routine to chat up a girl in the audience.
Brand is not a fool. He is very observant, and intelligent. His comedy is full of compassion and pathos. Even when he veers into his anti capitalist line, he still shows humanity.
Fools are often intelligent. Boris, Jacob RM, Ed Miliband all spring to mind.
There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
Indeed so, but that dislike is irrational (you are a prime example of the phenomenon!). Therefore, the alternative is always going to be disappointing, because there is no better alternative. Either you overcome the dislike, or you'll be for ever searching around for a non-existent alternative which somehow manages to combine being 'nicer' or 'fairer' with actually doing what needs to be done.
That alternative doesn't exist. You end up with Labour, all spin and no substance. It's not that Miliband and Darling and Blair and even Brown are stupid, it's the fundamental clash with reality which will repeatedly disappoint you.
As we say, the facts of life are conservative.
Yep conservatives certainly believe that the facts of life are conservative. Nobody else does though and it's 23 years and waiting since an election victory.
Labour are unlikely to gain a majority next week, which would mean that they have been unable to win an election without Tony Blair leading the party, since 1974.
I've often seen this posted in rebuttal to the 'Tories haven't won a majority since 1992' argument. I still don't understand why. If we're going to start judging on the basis of not winning a majority if we don't include those leaders who did win majorities, we could go much further with both sides. Yes, they didn't win for a long time until Blair was leading them...and then they did. The Tories are still waiting for their Blair.
In this particular instance, while neither side is in the best of positions, the Tories have the worse of it in recent history. Perhaps that will change, but it doesn't mean the Tory failure is any less crap.
There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
Indeed so, but that dislike is irrational (you are a prime example of the phenomenon!). Therefore, the alternative is always going to be disappointing, because there is no better alternative. Either you overcome the dislike, or you'll be for ever searching around for a non-existent alternative which somehow manages to combine being 'nicer' or 'fairer' with actually doing what needs to be done.
That alternative doesn't exist. You end up with Labour, all spin and no substance. It's not that Miliband and Darling and Blair and even Brown are stupid, it's the fundamental clash with reality which will repeatedly disappoint you.
As we say, the facts of life are conservative.
Yep conservatives certainly believe that the facts of life are conservative. Nobody else does though and it's 23 years and waiting since an election victory.
Labour are unlikely to gain a majority next week, which would mean that they have been unable to win an election without Tony Blair leading the party, since 1974.
That is a total non-statement.
Man UTD havent won anything since 1985 without Fergie as manager
If the polls prove correct, Labour are going to be wiped out, and henceforth unelectable, in south east England, south west England, central south England, East Anglia, and Scotland. And of course they do not exist in northern Ireland.
They are being reduced to the party of London, Wales, and scattered parts of the north and Midlands. And that's it.
If Plaid and UKIP up their game, in Wales and WWC England, it is possible to see Labour disappearing forever as a significant party of government.
There is a large block of centre left voters in England and millions more in the centre. As a consequence, a sensible, credible Labour party will always have a chance. Labour was wiped out in all the places in England you mention 30 years ago, but came back. Scotland is another matter.
And If, as the polls suggest Labour is wiped out north of the border, will it take another 30 years to rebuild there IYO?
I doubt it. A new leader, a recession and things could change quickly. Why wouldn't they?
It's worth remembering that even with Scotland gone, Ed in charge and the economy improving, we are talking about a very fragile Tory majority on a 37% vote share, at best. There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
I think there's pretty clear polling evidence that England leans centre/centre-right. It's the patriotism, desire for civil liberties, home ownership and preference for individual personal autonomy that swings it. Together with a lot of history and not a bit of culture.
But, you're correct. "The Tories" - as a brand - pushes too many buttons with English voters about the class system, arrogance, pomposity, inherited wealth, landed gentry, and privilege.
And that puts people off. Not that I agree with all those prejudices mind.
How wonderful would it be if there was a party that had those qualities of patriotism, desire for civil liberties, home ownership and preference for individual personal autonomy but without the class system, arrogance, pomposity, inherited wealth, landed gentry, and privilege.
The LD once tried it but they are now consigned to the dustbin of history for betraying those principles in favour of supporting the party of the class system, arrogance, pomposity, inherited wealth, landed gentry, and privilege.
Great stuff, more personal attacks on Miliband. Keep em coming.
At least this one is about something he has actually done, rather than just him being weird or his dad being a marxist or something. As a celebrity figure who Ed is seeking to leach off the inexplicable popularity of, I actually think the thrust of the headline is fair game compared to other attacks. I still don't think it will work, but it's not as silly as some of them - they have struggled with what what is occasionally a clear instruction to have a bad Ed headline when there wasn't enough to even partisanly justify it.
I like the use of the snapped photo of Ed getting in to his car. Makes it all seem like some sinister secret.
I'm starting to get worried - no leaflets for a week now, and no knocks on the door at all. I presume I'll get a round of leaflets from most of the parties (nothing from Green or Con yet) in the final week, but if I no-one knocks I cannot even decide on the basis of who put the most effort in, so it might be down to a coin toss.
That is the worst picture in the entire world. You can barely see the back of him in the dark, in a dark alley, wearing a black suit, from what looks like a CCTV camera 50ft away.
Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) 28/04/2015 14:29 Don't be jealous Dave - I'll run into you at West Ham - when you're not busy with "ordinary people" pic.twitter.com/wB1Paq9xHV
Good Twitter today was Ed meets Russell about poverty and then Russell goes back to his 3 million mansion and Ed goes back to his 199,999.99p mansion
Harsh but fair....
:-)
I don't like Russell Brand, and I don't want Ed Miliband to be our Prime Minister, but...
Opposition leader meets the most popular person who talks about politics in the country with people under 30, and said personality endorses his party/tweets negatively to 9.5m about the PM
I don't think it can hurt Labours chances
I agree. He is a fool, but a fool with a following.
I've seen Brand a few times at the Edinburgh fringe. The first time was literally with one man and a goat- and he went off his routine to chat up a girl in the audience.
Brand is not a fool. He is very observant, and intelligent. His comedy is full of compassion and pathos. Even when he veers into his anti capitalist line, he still shows humanity.
Fools are often intelligent. Boris, Jacob RM, Ed Miliband all spring to mind.
Jacob Rees-Mogg is no fool.
As I think (Sean Fear?) has been said on here before, Labour love it when people like Stephen Hawking and Stephen Fry endorse them because they are seen to be very intelligent. It allows Labour to self-congratulate themselves as the intelligent party, and portray the Conservatives the stupid party, thus reinforcing their original intellectual laziness.
The common thread is that arts, media, and research science are creative industries, very dependent on public funding, and their innovation is often based on taking anti-establishment positions. It's not surprising their celebrities lean Left.
Conversely, there are plenty of very intelligent people in business, finance, law and technology who are entrepreneurial, depend on a stable and efficient economy, and derive their prosperity from the health of the private sector. It's not surprising they lean Right. But they're not on the TV as much.
There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
Indeed so, but that dislike is irrational (you are a prime example of the phenomenon!). Therefore, the alternative is always going to be disappointing, because there is no better alternative. Either you overcome the dislike, or you'll be for ever searching around for a non-existent alternative which somehow manages to combine being 'nicer' or 'fairer' with actually doing what needs to be done.
That alternative doesn't exist. You end up with Labour, all spin and no substance. It's not that Miliband and Darling and Blair and even Brown are stupid, it's the fundamental clash with reality which will repeatedly disappoint you.
As we say, the facts of life are conservative.
Yep conservatives certainly believe that the facts of life are conservative. Nobody else does though and it's 23 years and waiting since an election victory.
Labour are unlikely to gain a majority next week, which would mean that they have been unable to win an election without Tony Blair leading the party, since 1974.
That is a total non-statement.
Man UTD havent won anything since 1985 without Fergie as manager
Doesn't change a thing
It's relevant because while Blair might have led Labour to victory, he did so firstly as a Christian Democrat and ultimately as a NeoCon. Labour, led by an authentically Labour politician, hasn't won a working majority since 1966.
Labour took the piss out of the Tories for their losses but they were never really strong there in Scotland as Labour have been in the past.
The Conservatives (Unionist, National Liberal & Conservatives) had 50.1% of the vote in Scotland in the 1955 GE, the highest percentage any party has had here.
Nothing lasts forever, including any current SNP hegemony.
Robert Peston @Peston 4m4 minutes ago Tory press release: "living standards 2.2% up from Lab's Recession. Q4 2014 disposable income £4,187, Q2 2010 £4,178". Actually 0.22% rise
It's up by a lot more than that for the 2 million extra people in work.
Is it?
Does that include those on Zero hours contracts?
Could you refer that post to the numerous Labour councils that use them. Also to the Labour MPs that use them and by the way in case you forgot......Labour invented them
When & how did Labour invent the zero hours contract?
To a point that's even debatable depending on where you stand politically. What has to and must be remembered here is Ed Balls, Milliband and the entire Labour Party stated that the policies of the coalition would throw millions onto the dole.... There would be a triple dip... To far too fast... And any number of bullshit statements to scare the electorate.
It didn't.
We can only hope the electorate realise that although not perfect to move from where we were to where we are now is quite extraordinary against an opposition that has voted against pretty much every move and then..... And then even .....when they agreed ....slithered out of the agreement at the last moment
Of course, Richard!! It's only irrational if you don't understand it. And you don't understand it. Because you are a Tory.
A genuine question for you, Southam. You posted earlier today that you hoped a better centre-left alternative to Labour might emerge (it's a point you've made before). As I was walking out to get my sandwich, I was thinking about that point, and I was really struggling to think what in policy terms you might want different from what Labour offers. Presumably no difference on the EU, or slower deficit reduction, or the bedroom tax, or anti-discrimination legislation, or higher taxation, or reduced use of private providers in the NHS, or getting rid of so-called 'unqualified' teachers in schools, or cancelling free schools, etc etc etc.
I appreciate that I might be wrong about what you'd like to see, but can you elaborate on what you would like to be different?
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
There are millions of English voters who just don't like the Tories.
Indeed so, but that dislike is irrational (you are a prime example of the phenomenon!). Therefore, the alternative is always going to be disappointing, because there is no better alternative. Either you overcome the dislike, or you'll be for ever searching around for a non-existent alternative which somehow manages to combine being 'nicer' or 'fairer' with actually doing what needs to be done.
That alternative doesn't exist. You end up with Labour, all spin and no substance. It's not that Miliband and Darling and Blair and even Brown are stupid, it's the fundamental clash with reality which will repeatedly disappoint you.
As we say, the facts of life are conservative.
Yep conservatives certainly believe that the facts of life are conservative. Nobody else does though and it's 23 years and waiting since an election victory.
Labour are unlikely to gain a majority next week, which would mean that they have been unable to win an election without Tony Blair leading the party, since 1974.
That is a total non-statement.
Man UTD havent won anything since 1985 without Fergie as manager
Doesn't change a thing
It's relevant because while Blair might have led Labour to victory, he did so firstly as a Christian Democrat and ultimately as a NeoCon. Labour, led by an authentically Labour politician, hasn't won a working majority since 1966.
Rubbish. Circumstances like John Major and his soap box, Smith dying, Brown being too gullible, and the Tory party self-destructing in the 90's. Those lead Blair to No.10.
You could have put Tony Benn as leader of Labour in 1997 and they still would have won.
Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) 28/04/2015 14:29 Don't be jealous Dave - I'll run into you at West Ham - when you're not busy with "ordinary people" pic.twitter.com/wB1Paq9xHV
Good Twitter today was Ed meets Russell about poverty and then Russell goes back to his 3 million mansion and Ed goes back to his 199,999.99p mansion
Harsh but fair....
:-)
I don't like Russell Brand, and I don't want Ed Miliband to be our Prime Minister, but...
Opposition leader meets the most popular person who talks about politics in the country with people under 30, and said personality endorses his party/tweets negatively to 9.5m about the PM
I don't think it can hurt Labours chances
I agree. He is a fool, but a fool with a following.
I've seen Brand a few times at the Edinburgh fringe. The first time was literally with one man and a goat- and he went off his routine to chat up a girl in the audience.
Brand is not a fool. He is very observant, and intelligent. His comedy is full of compassion and pathos. Even when he veers into his anti capitalist line, he still shows humanity.
Fools are often intelligent. Boris, Jacob RM, Ed Miliband all spring to mind.
Jacob Rees-Mogg is no fool.
As I think (Sean Fear?) has been said on here before, Labour love it when people like Stephen Hawking and Stephen Fry endorse them because they are seen to be very intelligent. It allows Labour to self-congratulate themselves as the intelligent party, and portray the Conservatives the stupid party, thus reinforcing their original intellectual laziness.
The common thread is that arts, media, and research science are creative industries, very dependent on public funding, and their innovation is often based on taking anti-establishment positions. It's not surprising their celebrities lean Left.
Conversely, there are plenty of very intelligent people in business, finance, law and technology who are entrepreneurial, depend on a stable and efficient economy, and derive their prosperity from the health of the private sector. It's not surprising they lean Right. But they're not on the TV as much.
Tomorrow being 9 days before polling day is, relatively speaking, Sheffield rally 1992 day.
After tonight's Yougov there aren't many PB Hodges declaring "We are alright".
You what? Yougov glued the needle down 2 weeks ago to exclude volatility and excluded the signal as well as the noise. No one pays them any attention any more. Last night was clearly an outlier by their standards.
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
Tomorrow being 9 days before polling day is, relatively speaking, Sheffield rally 1992 day.
After tonight's Yougov there aren't many PB Hodges declaring "We are alright".
YouGov being as static as it is, a Tory lead last night was just icing on the cake for the Tories after a series of genuinely positive poll movements. Without it tonight, they will be hopeful that the cake itself is still real at least. We shall see.
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
No he isn't. Conservatives believe in defending the status quo. The clue is in the name.
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
If the Tories ditched the Euro-obsession and the fanatical privatisation then I could support them. But they are not going to do so.
Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) 28/04/2015 14:29 Don't be jealous Dave - I'll run into you at West Ham - when you're not busy with "ordinary people" pic.twitter.com/wB1Paq9xHV
Good Twitter today was Ed meets Russell about poverty and then Russell goes back to his 3 million mansion and Ed goes back to his 199,999.99p mansion
Harsh but fair....
:-)
I don't like Russell Brand, and I don't want Ed Miliband to be our Prime Minister, but...
Opposition leader meets the most popular person who talks about politics in the country with people under 30, and said personality endorses his party/tweets negatively to 9.5m about the PM
I don't think it can hurt Labours chances
I agree. He is a fool, but a fool with a following.
I've seen Brand a few times at the Edinburgh fringe. The first time was literally with one man and a goat- and he went off his routine to chat up a girl in the audience.
Brand is not a fool. He is very observant, and intelligent. His comedy is full of compassion and pathos. Even when he veers into his anti capitalist line, he still shows humanity.
Fools are often intelligent. Boris, Jacob RM, Ed Miliband all spring to mind.
The common thread is that arts, media, and research science are creative industries, very dependent on public funding, and their innovation is often based on taking anti-establishment positions. It's not surprising their celebrities lean Left.
Celebrities might lean Left, but their accounting practices tend to lean Right, as do the Producers and Managers running the Film and TV businesses employing thousands and generating vast revenues in the UK.
No he isn't. Conservatives believe in defending the status quo. The clue is in the name.
Poppycock. It was a Conservative PM who shattered the status quo on the trade unions, on nationalised industries, on the old-boy network in the City, on exchange controls, on rent controls, on the right to buy. It was another Conservative PM who dismantled the Empire. It was the current Conservative PM who shook up the education sector, presided over the most dramatic reform of welfare since 1945, and who is set to address the EU festering sore if he is re-elected.
Labour, in contrast, wants to go back to the status qua ante: bad nationalised schools, education in thrall to teaching unions, tenants subsidised for life in properties too big for them whilst others are in desperate need, the EU untouchable and unreformed, and so on
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
No he isn't. Conservatives believe in defending the status quo. The clue is in the name.
That may be true of them, but parties are not just their names (despite what many voters seem to believe), and it is not always the case that what they stand for is in the name. How many times have people mocked the LDs as not being all that liberal or democratic? I've definitely seen it said.
Of course, Richard!! It's only irrational if you don't understand it. And you don't understand it. Because you are a Tory.
A genuine question for you, Southam. You posted earlier today that you hoped a better centre-left alternative to Labour might emerge (it's a point you've made before). As I was walking out to get my sandwich, I was thinking about that point, and I was really struggling to think what in policy terms you might want different from what Labour offers. Presumably no difference on the EU, or slower deficit reduction, or the bedroom tax, or anti-discrimination legislation, or higher taxation, or reduced use of private providers in the NHS, or getting rid of so-called 'unqualified' teachers in schools, or cancelling free schools, etc etc etc.
I appreciate that I might be wrong about what you'd like to see, but can you elaborate on what you would like to be different?
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Not much to argue with there, unless you are in the Labour party. The means to get there may not always be common. I would expect a centre right Tory party to be much better at delivering on most of that.
A mother saw on TV her son was involved in the riot, looked for and found him, repeatedly hit him with her hands and beat the living shit out of him in the middle of the street on live TV. Eventually she carted him off home. She has won praise for being a responsible parent and authority figure with her son. It has been shown all day.
This got the network talking heads pondering if missing fathers and black family breakdown could be a major factor in these riots.
Some stats on both CNN and Fox thanks to the dvr - Baltimore is 63% black, yet 89% of those in jail are black. Much of this is mandatory drug stuff.
Nationwide 67% of black kids grow up in a single parent household, 25% of whites, Asian 16%, hispanic 42%.
2/3 of black kids have no male authority figure in their lives.
It is at least food for thought - how to fix the structure of the black family. Obama made it one of his key objectives some years back, and it is surely not a quick fix.
Not seen on the BBC news of course that manages to find a space to report that Orville is dead in the top news. Alongside earthquakes, Baltimore and executions....
If anyone at all thinks a member of the coalition in the same situation would not have been front page (in place of Orville the duck) is absolutely deluded.
To conclude tonight, everything is static as usual. Also I agree with this:
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 3h3 hours ago Miliband-Brand interview will be seen by more people than watch C4N or Newsnight...more importantly, people who would prob not watch either.
No he isn't. Conservatives believe in defending the status quo. The clue is in the name.
Poppycock. It was a Conservative PM who shattered the status quo on the trade unions, on nationalised industries, on the old-boy network in the City, on exchange controls, on rent controls, on the right to buy. It was another Conservative PM who dismantled the Empire. It was the current Conservative PM who shook up the education sector, presided over the most dramatic reform of welfare since 1945, and who is set to address the EU festering sore if he is re-elected.
What a load of old deluded rubbish. Can't believe you brought up the Empire FFS.
Russell Brand (@rustyrockets) 28/04/2015 14:29 Don't be jealous Dave - I'll run into you at West Ham - when you're not busy with "ordinary people" pic.twitter.com/wB1Paq9xHV
Good Twitter today was Ed meets Russell about poverty and then Russell goes back to his 3 million mansion and Ed goes back to his 199,999.99p mansion
Harsh but fair....
:-)
I don't like Russell Brand, and I don't want Ed Miliband to be our Prime Minister, but...
Opposition leader meets the most popular person who talks about politics in the country with people under 30, and said personality endorses his party/tweets negatively to 9.5m about the PM
I don't think it can hurt Labours chances
I agree. He is a fool, but a fool with a following.
I've seen Brand a few times at the Edinburgh fringe. The first time was literally with one man and a goat- and he went off his routine to chat up a girl in the audience.
Brand is not a fool. He is very observant, and intelligent. His comedy is full of compassion and pathos. Even when he veers into his anti capitalist line, he still shows humanity.
Fools are often intelligent. Boris, Jacob RM, Ed Miliband all spring to mind.
Jacob Rees-Mogg is no fool.
As I think (Sean Fear?) has been said on here before, Labour love it when people like Stephen Hawking and Stephen Fry endorse them because they are seen to be very intelligent. It allows Labour to self-congratulate themselves as the intelligent party, and portray the Conservatives the stupid party, thus reinforcing their original intellectual laziness.
The common thread is that arts, media, and research science are creative industries, very dependent on public funding, and their innovation is often based on taking anti-establishment positions. It's not surprising their celebrities lean Left.
Conversely, there are plenty of very intelligent people in business, finance, law and technology who are entrepreneurial, depend on a stable and efficient economy, and derive their prosperity from the health of the private sector. It's not surprising they lean Right. But they're not on the TV as much.
Just to parse and re-order that a bit - are you really claiming that innovation in research science is often based on taking anti-establishment positions? And that this anti-establishment position is also dependent on public funding?
Disregarding the weird contradiction in the above - is that a good thing or not?
No he isn't. Conservatives believe in defending the status quo. The clue is in the name.
Poppycock. It was a Conservative PM who shattered the status quo on the trade unions, on nationalised industries, on the old-boy network in the City, on exchange controls, on rent controls, on the right to buy. It was another Conservative PM who dismantled the Empire. It was the current Conservative PM who shook up the education sector, presided over the most dramatic reform of welfare since 1945, and who is set to address the EU festering sore if he is re-elected.
Oh! You are awful, but I do like you. Exits scene falling about laughing. Night all.
Tomorrow being 9 days before polling day is, relatively speaking, Sheffield rally 1992 day.
After tonight's Yougov there aren't many PB Hodges declaring "We are alright".
You what? Yougov glued the needle down 2 weeks ago to exclude volatility and excluded the signal as well as the noise. No one pays them any attention any more. Last night was clearly an outlier by their standards.
I am already missing "Tory most seats is now nailed on. Tory majority is within touching distance". It was such fun.
To conclude tonight, everything is static as usual. Also I agree with this:
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 3h3 hours ago Miliband-Brand interview will be seen by more people than watch C4N or Newsnight...more importantly, people who would prob not watch either.
Sadly, kids in the States don't get to vote in UK elections.
Tomorrow being 9 days before polling day is, relatively speaking, Sheffield rally 1992 day.
After tonight's Yougov there aren't many PB Hodges declaring "We are alright".
You what? Yougov glued the needle down 2 weeks ago to exclude volatility and excluded the signal as well as the noise. No one pays them any attention any more. Last night was clearly an outlier by their standards.
I am already missing "Tory most seats is now nailed on. Tory majority is within touching distance". It was such fun.
You're missing fantasy quotes that you just made up? Weird.
Tomorrow being 9 days before polling day is, relatively speaking, Sheffield rally 1992 day.
After tonight's Yougov there aren't many PB Hodges declaring "We are alright".
You what? Yougov glued the needle down 2 weeks ago to exclude volatility and excluded the signal as well as the noise. No one pays them any attention any more. Last night was clearly an outlier by their standards.
I am already missing "Tory most seats is now nailed on. Tory majority is within touching distance". It was such fun.
Yes he did - and in such an incompetent way that it was an absolute, unmitigated, world-class disaster, a major stain on British history, leading to the horrors of partition and a death toll which makes Blair's adventures look like a stroll in the park.
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
No he isn't. Conservatives believe in defending the status quo. The clue is in the name.
If it's in a name then for Labour It's the afterbirth that most worry about.
History shows every time that the incoming government have to deal with this after Labour are turfed out.
Robert Peston @Peston 4m4 minutes ago Tory press release: "living standards 2.2% up from Lab's Recession. Q4 2014 disposable income £4,187, Q2 2010 £4,178". Actually 0.22% rise
It's up by a lot more than that for the 2 million extra people in work.
Is it?
Does that include those on Zero hours contracts?
You cant just say 'zero hours contract', and then somehow you cancel out the fact that 2 million more people are in work.
Its the equivalent of pointing at someone who has just won a spelling bee, and saying, yeah but you smell.
A figure that is truly shocking. A figure that no politician, predicting it in 2010 would have been taken seriously. Laughed from the rafters.
Some of those jobs will be zero hours, some will be part time. But a great many are full time and permanent. Also, a hint, many full time permanent staff start off part time and temporary.
It is a jobs miracle.
Ok will stand corrected on this but the job gains under this coalition were 80% approx full time. This was announced on the main news channels. Of the 20% will be part time and of course zeros.
Like I said I will be more than happily corrected by someone who perhaps is knowledgable about the distribution.
''Zero hours contracts'' are the opiate to keep labour faithful comatose.
What has happened is the opposite of what labour claimed would happen after the election.
Yes he did - and in such an incompetent way that it was an absolute, unmitigated, world-class disaster, a major stain on British history, leading to the horrors of partition and a death toll which makes Blair's adventures look like a stroll in the park.
I guess you are one of those Tories who just see socialists as inferior in every conceivable way
What a load of old deluded rubbish. Can't believe you brought up the Empire FFS.
You need to do some learning. Look up Harold Macmillan.
Attlee started decolonisation with India. Tories, as ever, just carried on a good idea. Macmillan was best of a bad bunch mind.
Who initiated the NI peace talks?
This could get very silly.
The object of either party is to amend change alter and as they see it improve the governance of the country and the well being of the population.
Labour appear to have a need to be liked, and therefore have a tendency to recoil from the hard or unpopular decisions. The Tory party are more willing to take a hit if they consider it to be in the long term interest. They don't need to be loved in the same way.
Yes he did - and in such an incompetent way that it was an absolute, unmitigated, world-class disaster, a major stain on British history, leading to the horrors of partition and a death toll which makes Blair's adventures look like a stroll in the park.
Attlee didnt end the Mandate in Palestine very neatly either.
To conclude tonight, everything is static as usual. Also I agree with this:
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 3h3 hours ago Miliband-Brand interview will be seen by more people than watch C4N or Newsnight...more importantly, people who would prob not watch either.
Goodnight.
So the lefty media is proclaiming that 'Ed's played a blinder'. Oh dear. This rarely ends well.
Yes he did - and in such an incompetent way that it was an absolute, unmitigated, world-class disaster, a major stain on British history, leading to the horrors of partition and a death toll which makes Blair's adventures look like a stroll in the park.
I guess you are one of those Tories who just see socialists as inferior in very conceivable way
Unfair indeed, but it's reciprocated by many on the other side so no sense in either side getting uppity about it I should think.
I would like a Labour party that understands and incentivises aspiration, that uses the power of the state to deliver equality of opportunity and to ensure (not aspire to) a decent standard of living for all. I want one that advocates solidarity at home and abroad.
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Thanks Southam.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
I should hope we want the same outcomes. But I suspect my view of the state as an enabler and guarantor is not one shared by even One Nation Tories. I want the state interfering in the market by, for example, insisting all companies that get money from the state for services provided pay a living wage; and much more tightly regulating privately-owned public utilities. I am also totally opposed to selling off housing association properties and in favour of higher taxes for the best off. But, that said, I am a capitalist and I believe strongly in the profit motive, so there's a bit of me - probably a significant bit - that sees the world in the same way many Tories do. Put it this way, I get where Conservatism comes from. It's a coherent philosophy, but I start from a pisition - born of experience, no doubt - that the state is a good thing and should not be rolled back as a matter of principle.
I guess you are one of those Tories who just see socialists as inferior in very conceivable way
I'm just bemused by the myth that has been created over Attlee by the left. There were some good things, but overall it was a disaster of a government, and India was unquestionably one of the most appalling failures:
In the riots which preceded the partition in the Punjab region, between 200,000 to 500,000 people were killed in the retributive genocide. UNHCR estimates 14 million Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims were displaced during the partition; it was the largest mass migration in human history
Comments
YouGov/Sun:
CON 34 (-1)
LAB 35 (+1)
LIB 9 (=)
UKIP 12 (=)
GRN 4 (-1)
But, you're correct. "The Tories" - as a brand - pushes too many buttons with English voters about the class system, arrogance, pomposity, inherited wealth, landed gentry, and privilege.
And that puts people off. Not that I agree with all those prejudices mind.
LAB - 35% (+1)
CON - 34% (-1)
UKIP - 12% (-)
LDEM - 9% (-)
GRN - 4% (-1)
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/593166614234791938
'No one is saying that Labour will surpass the Tories on actual seat numbers. Where did you hear that ?'
You either haven't been reading the threads for the past 4 years or are suddenly suffering from amnesia.
Day/Week/All Time
2/6 (5)/23 (16) Polls (pollsters)
CON +1/+7/-1
LAB NC/+1/-12
UKIP 0/-2/+6
LD -2/-3/-2
GREEN NC/+3/+4
In this particular instance, while neither side is in the best of positions, the Tories have the worse of it in recent history. Perhaps that will change, but it doesn't mean the Tory failure is any less crap.
Man UTD havent won anything since 1985 without Fergie as manager
Doesn't change a thing
BBC News : "Russell brand is a joke... I haven't got time to hang about with Russell brand" says David Cameron
The LD once tried it but they are now consigned to the dustbin of history for betraying those principles in favour of supporting the party of the class system, arrogance, pomposity, inherited wealth, landed gentry, and privilege.
@suttonnick: Wednesday's Sun front page:
Monster Raving Labour Party
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/yY6NdYp1ke
I'm starting to get worried - no leaflets for a week now, and no knocks on the door at all. I presume I'll get a round of leaflets from most of the parties (nothing from Green or Con yet) in the final week, but if I no-one knocks I cannot even decide on the basis of who put the most effort in, so it might be down to a coin toss.
@suttonnick: Wednesday's i front page:
Labour turns nasty
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers http://t.co/KtVK47wKO6
That is the worst picture in the entire world.
You can barely see the back of him in the dark, in a dark alley, wearing a black suit, from what looks like a CCTV camera 50ft away.
As I think (Sean Fear?) has been said on here before, Labour love it when people like Stephen Hawking and Stephen Fry endorse them because they are seen to be very intelligent. It allows Labour to self-congratulate themselves as the intelligent party, and portray the Conservatives the stupid party, thus reinforcing their original intellectual laziness.
The common thread is that arts, media, and research science are creative industries, very dependent on public funding, and their innovation is often based on taking anti-establishment positions. It's not surprising their celebrities lean Left.
Conversely, there are plenty of very intelligent people in business, finance, law and technology who are entrepreneurial, depend on a stable and efficient economy, and derive their prosperity from the health of the private sector. It's not surprising they lean Right. But they're not on the TV as much.
It seems like only last week that Labour were whining about personal attacks. Oh wait, it was.
To a point that's even debatable depending on where you stand politically. What has to and must be remembered here is Ed Balls, Milliband and the entire Labour Party stated that the policies of the coalition would throw millions onto the dole.... There would be a triple dip... To far too fast... And any number of bullshit statements to scare the electorate.
It didn't.
We can only hope the electorate realise that although not perfect to move from where we were to where we are now is quite extraordinary against an opposition that has voted against pretty much every move and then..... And then even .....when they agreed ....slithered out of the agreement at the last moment
http://electionforecast.co.uk/
My Labour party would not care who provided services, but it would ensure that they were delivered to the very highest standards and that employees who worked in the state's name - even if they did not work for the state - were paid a living wage. Anti-discrimination legislation - too right; but also an absolute freedom to offend and to express any view, no matter how repugnant. The bedroom tax; my Labour party would understand that policy making should be evidence-based, not arbitrary. The EU? Hmmm, on balance probably yes, but not as it is now.
I'd write more and better, but I'm on the phone.
Probably not - but I wouldn't rule it out 100%.
With or without the SNP?
Has Rod been brought in flight champagne?
Rubbish.
Circumstances like John Major and his soap box, Smith dying, Brown being too gullible, and the Tory party self-destructing in the 90's. Those lead Blair to No.10.
You could have put Tony Benn as leader of Labour in 1997 and they still would have won.
The only thing is, there's hardly a word of that I would disagree with, and I think not a single word David Cameron would disagree with (except maybe the freedom to offend bit, where he's a shade on the Harriet side of the argument compared with me and, it seems, you).
You are describing a centre-right party, basically one-nation Conservatism.
Yep. Agreed.
Labour, in contrast, wants to go back to the status qua ante: bad nationalised schools, education in thrall to teaching unions, tenants subsidised for life in properties too big for them whilst others are in desperate need, the EU untouchable and unreformed, and so on
A mother saw on TV her son was involved in the riot, looked for and found him, repeatedly hit him with her hands and beat the living shit out of him in the middle of the street on live TV. Eventually she carted him off home. She has won praise for being a responsible parent and authority figure with her son. It has been shown all day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUS7GRlAnlM
This got the network talking heads pondering if missing fathers and black family breakdown could be a major factor in these riots.
Some stats on both CNN and Fox thanks to the dvr - Baltimore is 63% black, yet 89% of those in jail are black. Much of this is mandatory drug stuff.
Nationwide 67% of black kids grow up in a single parent household, 25% of whites, Asian 16%, hispanic 42%.
2/3 of black kids have no male authority figure in their lives.
It is at least food for thought - how to fix the structure of the black family. Obama made it one of his key objectives some years back, and it is surely not a quick fix.
Not seen on the BBC news of course that manages to find a space to report that Orville is dead in the top news. Alongside earthquakes, Baltimore and executions....
If anyone at all thinks a member of the coalition in the same situation would not have been front page (in place of Orville the duck) is absolutely deluded.
Also I agree with this:
Faisal Islam @faisalislam 3h3 hours ago
Miliband-Brand interview will be seen by more people than watch C4N or Newsnight...more importantly, people who would prob not watch either.
Goodnight.
Disregarding the weird contradiction in the above - is that a good thing or not?
History shows every time that the incoming government have to deal with this after Labour are turfed out.
'Wednesday's Times front page:
Labour chief given £1.5m shares from tax haven
#tomorrowspaperstoday #bbcpapers
10:35 PM - 28 Apr 2015'
Labour troughers at it again.
What has happened is the opposite of what labour claimed would happen after the election.
This could get very silly.
The object of either party is to amend change alter and as they see it improve the governance of the country and the well being of the population.
Labour appear to have a need to be liked, and therefore have a tendency to recoil from the hard or unpopular decisions. The Tory party are more willing to take a hit if they consider it to be in the long term interest. They don't need to be loved in the same way.
And he has a monumentally high opinion of himself.
In the riots which preceded the partition in the Punjab region, between 200,000 to 500,000 people were killed in the retributive genocide. UNHCR estimates 14 million Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims were displaced during the partition; it was the largest mass migration in human history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India