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Depends on how quickly they want to mess things around for rUK (which they can certainly do as they like, given their numbers). If they want full on chaos right away, they can play the hardest and most obstructionist cards they want, as you suggest. Maybe they will do that. I'm just guessing, based on their general level of canniness, that they'll want to do a little proving they can play ball for a bit first. We'll see.SeanT said:
Do explain what possible reason the SNP has to be "sensible".kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.
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Has he been stabbed in the back?chestnut said:
Red Ed is Dead Ed.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Thought that was David.sarissa said:
Has he been stabbed in the back?chestnut said:
Red Ed is Dead Ed.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Roger yesterday started talking about a Labour majority next week, which really cheered me up.
Since then, we've had 3 out 4 polls today with the Tories, 2 of them comfortably and 2 Scotland polls showing SLAB getting pounded like a Dockside Hooker.
He truly deserves the name Rogerdarmus0 -
YouGov worth 3 notches on Betfair.
Con Most seats 1.3/1.31.
Before 10.30pm was 1.33/1.34.0 -
How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway0
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I also wonder how any remaining SLAB MPs would react to such an alliance. Admittedly, this is not looking like too big a problem in terms of numbers but there is a difference between a near death experience and being asked to dig your own grave.SeanT said:
Do explain what possible reason the SNP has to be "sensible". Everything that sows discord and rancour between English and Scots IS TO THE SNP'S ADVANTAGE. Alex Salmond will be in Westminster, chortling on Question Time every other week about the new things Scots are taking from the English.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.
The Scots will love it, the English will hate it = win for the SNP.
Meanwhile the SNP are intent on demolishing Labour FOREVER in Scotland, and replacing them, they want to render SLAB extinct, the idea these two parties can cordially ally, long term, is nuts.
It's like the Tories allying with a new Home Counties Forever party intent on taking Sussex, Berks, Oxon, Bucks and Surrey to independence, and destroying the Tories in southeast England. What Tory could emotionally accommodate with that?
If we get a Miliband minority govt, with less votes and seats than the Tories, and entirely reliant on the SNP, it will be intrinsically volatile and incoherent, and will probably fall in short order.0 -
Yes and having been virtually wiped out in Scotland - it would provoke an immediate constitutional crisis - surely labour mps would see the red lights flashing and let David Cameron form a short term minority government in their own longer term interestDanny565 said:
Would you want Labour to try and get in government if they finish with less seats than the Tories? It would trigger a whole spate of hysterical tabloid headlines about coups.NickPalmer said:Think we can agree that the Tories have edged up today, mostly at UKIP's expense, but Miliband still heading for Downing Street unless one focuses on Ashcroft, which makes it a toss-up.
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Quite often one sees a long term relationship which goes rocky, and then is patched up with a wedding and sighs of relief all round, and then divorce within the year.Dair said:
SLAB floor is about 18% going by the polling figures on certainty to vote and certainty to stay SLAB.kle4 said:Have SLAB hit their floor in the mid20s? At least they don't need to worry about finishing below the Tories in Scotland I guess. Small mercies for them.
We are getting into Czechoslovakia territory btw.
18 months after a No vote the two countries went their own way without further referenda.
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Next to no movements thus far on the betting markets in response to today's polls.
Sensible punters (unlike excitable political nerds) are probably wisely awaiting a further batch of preferably reliable polls, before deciding whether or not the tide has turned and if so to what likely extent.
It's still a very difficult GE to call.0 -
As often with these tabloid front pages, the juxtaposition is good:TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SunNewsdesk/status/592803660989648898
"Everything you need to know about SEX, but are afraid to ask: Don't trust Labour!"0 -
Scotland will back the losers two elections in a row. If they want some influence they should vote Conservative.0
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Irrespective of tonite's you Gov (unless repeated .. and with interest..) is, which is right, online or telephone polls.. FWIW put your trust in telephones, until they prove you wrong.. Too easy to be less than honest online, not so easy speaking to someone.. and I do believe people are untruthful to online polls.0
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From a SNP viewpoint it makes no difference and probably aids their propaganda.Jonathan said:
Well if SNP do well and we get a Tory govt as a result, theyll be hammed next time much like the LDs are today.SeanT said:
Are you daft? Labour desperately need Scotland back onside. Without it they are 40 MPs in deficit, FOREVER.Greenwich_Floater said:Given total wipeout likely for all the main parties in Scotland, I wonder how wedded to the union they will be.
Tories will fight to the end against independence but is it possible Labour (with nothing left to lose) will soften their stance.
That's not something they can just shrug off.
And recall how many of their recent Big Beasts were Scots, John Smith, Gordon Brown, Robin Cook, George Galloway (OK that's a joke) all gone, all inconceivable now.
The loss of Scotland is not just gonna make elections very difficult for Labour, it is gonna make the future difficult. What are they? Just an English party that allies with the SNP? If so they will have to readjust to more conservative English values.
Delicious.
You seem to forget we have Scottish devolution. More Scottish policy will be decided in Scotland anyway. Pulling Miliband's string is just a stepping stone for them. So would a Tory government.
Scotland is inviting England to put itself first. It might have to, to preserve the Union.0 -
I believe the Labour NEC has the final decision over what Ed does.
In December 1923 they mandated MacDonald to go it alone in a minority government (as 2nd largest party).0 -
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.SouthamObserver said:
That's pretty much the way I see it, but with Labour 30-40 seats behind the Tories we'll never find out. This time next month they'll be looking for a new leader and we'll be starting two years of major constitutional fun under a minority Tory government supported by the LDs and the DUP.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.0 -
Well, Miliband has atleast edged ahead of Cameron in Scottish "trust" ratings now #smallmercies0
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- and of course it had to be a pulloutRichard_Nabavi said:
As often with these tabloid front pages, the juxtaposition is good:TheScreamingEagles said:twitter.com/SunNewsdesk/status/592803660989648898
"Everything you need to know about SEX, but are afraid to ask: Don't trust Labour!"
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You mean they let him keep his white feather haircut?? he looks a dork without it, but with it, its even worse.RodCrosby said:I believe the Labour NEC has the final decision over what Ed does.
In December 1923 they mandated MacDonald to go it alone in a minority government (as 2nd largest party).0 -
The Indy is not exactly right wingTykejohnno said:
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A good point which hasn't really been aired before - and not a wholly unlikely scenario, particularly if the two major parties (and indeed the legislation so provided) were to agree up front on a half normal term Parliament of two and a half years with a GE in late Autumn 2017.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes and having been virtually wiped out in Scotland - it would provoke an immediate constitutional crisis - surely labour mps would see the red lights flashing and let David Cameron form a short term minority government in their own longer term interestDanny565 said:
Would you want Labour to try and get in government if they finish with less seats than the Tories? It would trigger a whole spate of hysterical tabloid headlines about coups.NickPalmer said:Think we can agree that the Tories have edged up today, mostly at UKIP's expense, but Miliband still heading for Downing Street unless one focuses on Ashcroft, which makes it a toss-up.
This might suit Labour very nicely since it would be very difficult for the Tories to maintain their current level of support against the sort of austerity measures which assuredly lie ahead.0 -
Its the avowed policy of the SNP to relieve sub captains of that responsibility.RobD said:
Apparently it's one of the ways sub captains know when to launch their missiles. That, and no Radio 4.bigjohnowls said:TSE @TSEofPB 22s23 seconds ago
History is made, The Sun/YouGov poll has the Tories ahead, and Tom Newton Dunn didn't tweet about it beforehand.
Is he still breathing?0 -
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?
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I'm not so sure. You are forgetting how fervent the Nats are, particularly some of the converts from SLAB. And of course this assumes there isn't a 2nd referendum.Jonathan said:
Well if SNP do well and we get a Tory govt as a result, theyll be hammed next time much like the LDs are today.SeanT said:
Are you daft? Labour desperately need Scotland back onside. Without it they are 40 MPs in deficit, FOREVER.Greenwich_Floater said:Given total wipeout likely for all the main parties in Scotland, I wonder how wedded to the union they will be.
Tories will fight to the end against independence but is it possible Labour (with nothing left to lose) will soften their stance.
That's not something they can just shrug off.
And recall how many of their recent Big Beasts were Scots, John Smith, Gordon Brown, Robin Cook, George Galloway (OK that's a joke) all gone, all inconceivable now.
The loss of Scotland is not just gonna make elections very difficult for Labour, it is gonna make the future difficult. What are they? Just an English party that allies with the SNP? If so they will have to readjust to more conservative English values.
Delicious.
This election could really shift the map in the Tories favour. One of the biggest barriers to the Tories getting a majority in the past has been the highly "sticky" Lib Dems. If RCS is right these could be decimated. Apart from Chester, in most of the marginals Ashcroft has polled recently, where he has the Tories to lose, it is by no more than 6 points, which means up to a 3k Lab majority. In opposition with the right leader, the Tories ought to be able to take most of these back in 2020. Meanwhile Lab will likely find it very hard to shift the SNP in Scotland0 -
Reports up north suggest Miliband in Stockton South and finding UKIPPERS. Farage also coming up. This is notionally Labour seat 2380
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A couple of decent polls and the PB Tories are popping the champagne. Probably for the best thought. Make hay while the sun shines.
Whoever wins won't have that much fun after. For example, navigating an EU referendum from a minority position will be a hoot.
Well whatever happens, at least we're not LIb Dems.0 -
Unlikely that the Tories are going to have the votes to pass any further austerity in the next parliament. That's the bright side of the likelihood of them staying in, that they won't actually have the power to do anything particularly horrible.peter_from_putney said:
A good point which hasn't really been aired before - and not a wholly unlikely scenario, particularly if the two major parties (and indeed the legislation so provided) were to agree up front on a half normal term Parliament of two and a half years with a GE in late Autumn 2017.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes and having been virtually wiped out in Scotland - it would provoke an immediate constitutional crisis - surely labour mps would see the red lights flashing and let David Cameron form a short term minority government in their own longer term interestDanny565 said:
Would you want Labour to try and get in government if they finish with less seats than the Tories? It would trigger a whole spate of hysterical tabloid headlines about coups.NickPalmer said:Think we can agree that the Tories have edged up today, mostly at UKIP's expense, but Miliband still heading for Downing Street unless one focuses on Ashcroft, which makes it a toss-up.
This might suit Labour very nicely since it would be very difficult for the Tories to maintain their current level of support against the sort of austerity measures which assuredly lie ahead.0 -
Reports on BBC South East that Maidstone is tight between Con (34%) and Lib Dem (30%). Not sure where they got those stats from, and it's a Con hold, fa shiz.0
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'I haven't turned against them - the Coalition has been a good thing. Unfortunately it's been good for the Tories and not for the Lib Dems. Any future Tory Government would be very, very different'.TheKrakenAwakes said:
It was in the 2010 manifesto. The policy is a vote in government time. I doubt it would be whipped.
Your logic about being a LD supporter but turning against them for joining a tory coalition but happy to see the tories carry on does not tie up. Try again.
You weave a riddle too far for me. Coalition a good thing. So desert the libdems. (?)0 -
Ed's problem is the lack of a power base that will fight for him. Labour will stand still or go slightly backwards next week and I'd expect some big beasts to appear very quickly to say Labour has no mandate to try to form a government. Implicit in that is that Ed has failed and should go. And to be fair, the biggest catastrophe in modern Labour history - the total loss of Scotland - has happened on his watch. Not even Michael Foot managed that.Danny565 said:
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.SouthamObserver said:
That's pretty much the way I see it, but with Labour 30-40 seats behind the Tories we'll never find out. This time next month they'll be looking for a new leader and we'll be starting two years of major constitutional fun under a minority Tory government supported by the LDs and the DUP.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.
Ed's had a good campaign so far, but he hasn't changed any minds and Labour is going to lose; horrendously so in Scotland. A new leader will be needed.
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Con most seats now 1.29/1.30.
SPIN midprices currently Con 285, Lab 271. Implies 278 seats needed for most seats.
Now think about it - Con 1.29 to get 278 seats. How many does Cameron need to be PM? Probably 295, maybe one or two less, but let's say 295.
If Con is now very heavy odds on to get 278, is Con really significant odds against to get 295? That's quite a narrow range.0 -
Oakeshott on Newsnight walking around one day wearing a Lib Dem rosette, the next Labour. Comes across as a right idiot.0
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Not that I support any LIb Dem policy, but I do feel sorry for them. They did the right thing for the UK in 2010 and are now going to get mullered. There is no such thing as a grateful electorate.0
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Ouch.
"You're standing in front of a placard that says: 'Ban exploitative zero hours contracts' at an event set up by people who are on zero hour contracts. Aren't you the hypocrite?"
http://tinyurl.com/ldyksrw0 -
It is nothing to do with the Spanish (albeit that Spain is a strong supporter of Nato). The local Gibraltarians already support a naval presence (and regularly ask for a stronger one) and Gibraltar is regularly visited by British and American nuclear subs. All the infrastructure is thereEh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?0 -
I think we all know the I paper is a leftwing rag and getting desperate,didn't bother pointing the leftwing bit out ;-)JohnLilburne said:
The Indy is not exactly right wingTykejohnno said:
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It is not the SNPs fault that Ed Miliband and Labour cannot win a plurality in England. That is purely Labour's problem. They could make the most of Nicola by entering a formal alliance with the SNP, gaining votes in England from those who want Nicola as PM. Their refusal says it all - Labour only care about party and never voters.Dadge said:
Yup. And the SNP and the Scots themselves will get so much hate for this from Labour - the political tension will be unbearable.TOPPING said:
Lab + SNP = dead parrot.bigjohnowls said:The Guardian poll projection LAB + SNP 324
EICIPM
Get over it.
I see Nicola's still gabbling on about how she's going to work with Labour in Westminster. Why doesn't she put a sock in it? Either she's too hubristic or stupid to see how she's destroying Labour's chances, or she's calculated she can get more out of the Tories.
Which brings us to the question of what Cameron's relationship with the Jock 50 will be. What can he bribe them with to make sure their voters don't switch back to Labour?0 -
I thought the whole point of the Scottish base was to bottle up the Russians from their Arctic bases. Gibraltar is not much use for that.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?0 -
The rank hypocrisy of Labour on this beggars belief.Theuniondivvie said:Ouch.
"You're standing in front of a placard that says: 'Ban exploitative zero hours contracts' at an event set up by people who are on zero hour contracts. Aren't you the hypocrite?"
http://tinyurl.com/ldyksrw
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4 Unionists depend on UNS. It's not UNS according to Ashcroft. It;s 59 SNP.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
4 unionists left, not good enough.TheScreamingEagles said:That @Survation Scotland poll would see the following seat allocations
SNP 55 (+49) Lab 3 (-38) LD 1 (-10) Con 0 (-1)
Get it sorted Nicola.0 -
No it's not. Gibraltar is tiny and the only way to service it is via a 1,500 mile sea journey given the Spanish control the airspace and land access.franklyn said:
It is nothing to do with the Spanish (albeit that Spain is a strong supporter of Nato). The local Gibraltarians already support a naval presence (and regularly ask for a stronger one) and Gibraltar is regularly visited by British and American nuclear subs. All the infrastructure is thereEh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?
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That, of course, is a matter entirely for Mr. Len McCluskey to decide.Danny565 said:
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.SouthamObserver said:
That's pretty much the way I see it, but with Labour 30-40 seats behind the Tories we'll never find out. This time next month they'll be looking for a new leader and we'll be starting two years of major constitutional fun under a minority Tory government supported by the LDs and the DUP.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.0 -
Simply not true; there are British and American nuclear subs in and out of Gibraltar all the time; Spain is part of NATO.RobD said:
Spain would be apoplectic if we did that.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
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Nothing new there. Lives up to his image.KentRising said:Oakeshott on Newsnight walking around one day wearing a Lib Dem rosette, the next Labour. Comes across as a right idiot.
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Wow - I hope there was more to that answer from Balls, as he in no way even acknowledged the main thrust of that question in that clip. As unsubtle an ignoring of a question as I've seen in a while.Theuniondivvie said:Ouch.
"You're standing in front of a placard that says: 'Ban exploitative zero hours contracts' at an event set up by people who are on zero hour contracts. Aren't you the hypocrite?"
http://tinyurl.com/ldyksrw
By the by, is the use of the word 'exploitative' (which is also how it is in the manifesto) significant at all do people know? As in, is it meant to make people think all zero hours contracts would be banned, when in fact is would only be the 'exploitative' zero hours contracts?0 -
If there is any veracity to the YouGov methodology then the tick tock is about to sound an alarm for Labour. But as you know 10 days is a long time in politics.TheScreamingEagles said:
Tick tock?NickPalmer said:CON - 35% (+2)
LAB - 34% (-)
UKIP - 12% (-2)
LDEM - 9% (+1)
GRN - 5% (-)0 -
That'll be because he's a right idiot.KentRising said:Oakeshott on Newsnight walking around one day wearing a Lib Dem rosette, the next Labour. Comes across as a right idiot.
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I would have sympathy if they had not been so dupicituous and spent valuable time urinating on the leg of their coalition partner. But by reinforcing the label of "untrustworthy" they kept repeating the error time and time again.SquareRoot said:Not that I support any LIb Dem policy, but I do feel sorry for them. They did the right thing for the UK in 2010 and are now going to get mullered. There is no such thing as a grateful electorate.
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Three things
1 Tories looks like they could now have the 'mo' - deffo amongst the phone pollsters and now [just] online
2 Royal Baby will wipe all other news so nothing to unwind the mo - it might actually strengthen the Union and thus undermine a Lab/SNP
3 Nate Silver points to incumbency advantage amongst the undecideds on polling day, where it is said one in twelve make up their mind in the booth
Labour seem to have launched a series of seemingly unrelated policy ideas but no narrative.
Tories have kept their strongest narrative point - the economy - until the end
Difficult to see Labour getting back on track0 -
Problem is in the aftermath of an indecisive result and the possibility of another election, they would probably keep him in place. Labour leadership elections take months...SouthamObserver said:
Ed's problem is the lack of a power base that will fight for him. Labour will stand still or go slightly backwards next week and I'd expect some big beasts to appear very quickly to say Labour has no mandate to try to form a government. Implicit in that is that Ed has failed and should go. And to be fair, the biggest catastrophe in modern Labour history - the total loss of Scotland - has happened on his watch. Not even Michael Foot managed that.Danny565 said:
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.SouthamObserver said:
That's pretty much the way I see it, but with Labour 30-40 seats behind the Tories we'll never find out. This time next month they'll be looking for a new leader and we'll be starting two years of major constitutional fun under a minority Tory government supported by the LDs and the DUP.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.
Ed's had a good campaign so far, but he hasn't changed any minds and Labour is going to lose; horrendously so in Scotland. A new leader will be needed.
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That might be a worthy argument if it wasn't for the polls.hamiltonace said:
This election has been lost by Labour in Scotland not won by the SNP.
The SNP keep, keep, keep going up. Over 50% now pretty normal. That's not a Labour collapse, that's an SNP victory and The Second Referendum coming real soon.0 -
Oh, I completely agree that he SHOULD step down if he lose, but I'm getting a horrible feeling he might try and argue that the defeat wasn't caused by him and that he should get a chance to stay on. And due to the many inexplicable aspects of the Labour rulebook, it remains very difficult to oust a leader if they don't go voluntarily (there really should be a requirement for them to submit themselves to re-election as leader after a GE defeat).SouthamObserver said:
Ed's problem is the lack of a power base that will fight for him. Labour will stand still or go slightly backwards next week and I'd expect some big beasts to appear very quickly to say Labour has no mandate to try to form a government. Implicit in that is that Ed has failed and should go. And to be fair, the biggest catastrophe in modern Labour history - the total loss of Scotland - has happened on his watch. Not even Michael Foot managed that.Danny565 said:
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.SouthamObserver said:
That's pretty much the way I see it, but with Labour 30-40 seats behind the Tories we'll never find out. This time next month they'll be looking for a new leader and we'll be starting two years of major constitutional fun under a minority Tory government supported by the LDs and the DUP.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.
Ed's had a good campaign so far, but he hasn't changed any minds and Labour is going to lose; horrendously so in Scotland. A new leader will be needed.
0 -
yep.TCPoliticalBetting said:
I would have sympathy if they had not been so dupicituous and spent valuable time urinating on the leg of their coalition partner. But by reinforcing the label of "untrustworthy" they kept repeating the error time and time again.SquareRoot said:Not that I support any LIb Dem policy, but I do feel sorry for them. They did the right thing for the UK in 2010 and are now going to get mullered. There is no such thing as a grateful electorate.
0 -
Labour could really be facing a big dilemma. I can imagine many English MPs in marginal constituencies will be nervous about being propped up by the SNP in a coalition of the losers. However, letting Cameron continue (by abstaining on a confidence motion) also has problems:Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes and having been virtually wiped out in Scotland - it would provoke an immediate constitutional crisis - surely labour mps would see the red lights flashing and let David Cameron form a short term minority government in their own longer term interestDanny565 said:
Would you want Labour to try and get in government if they finish with less seats than the Tories? It would trigger a whole spate of hysterical tabloid headlines about coups.NickPalmer said:Think we can agree that the Tories have edged up today, mostly at UKIP's expense, but Miliband still heading for Downing Street unless one focuses on Ashcroft, which makes it a toss-up.
1) Scotland and Wales have elections in 2016. If Lab let the Cons carry on it backs up the SNP's "Red Tories" attack. No doubt Plaid may try something similar in Wales. I'm sure the Greens would also try to make hay in English local elections
2) What then happens to Ed Miliband? He needs to become PM to save his job. However, if Lab change leader and then pull the plug on the Tories and install the new leader the public might not like that
3) The Tories if they have any sense will use their minority government to bring forward populist bills and challenge the other parties to vote them down.First on the list an EU referendum bill.0 -
You linked to a £50k public subsidy and as I understand it an Advocate can expect to take home aruond £200k to £250k. So £50k is a big chunk of that money. Frankly even if this is an unusual year, it's still a huge chunk of the public purse.DavidL said:
Dair, I even gave you the link to the Legal Aid site. My LA income does not even reach 5 figures most years and it is by far the least profitable part of my practice. The idea of doing more LA fills me with horror. I turn it away regularly. You have said this a few times now. If it is supposed to be a joke it is not very funny.Dair said:
don't let the rhetoric fool you, DavidL is desperate for a Labour-SNP government so the Legal Aid system is restored and his £50,000 of our taxes becomes £100,000.Theuniondivvie said:
Just like SLab, the party you *might* be voting for? Though SLab's voting intentions in Westminster seem to be approaching peak irrelevance.
And no, it's not a joke. It's a comment on the legal profession and their hypocrisy over supporting Tory over leftist government when they depend, fundamentally on leftist subsidies.0 -
Isn't it a virtue to support something you believe in even though it may be to your pecuniary disadvantage?Dair said:
You linked to a £50k public subsidy and as I understand it an Advocate can expect to take home aruond £200k to £250k. So £50k is a big chunk of that money. Frankly even if this is an unusual year, it's still a huge chunk of the public purse.DavidL said:
Dair, I even gave you the link to the Legal Aid site. My LA income does not even reach 5 figures most years and it is by far the least profitable part of my practice. The idea of doing more LA fills me with horror. I turn it away regularly. You have said this a few times now. If it is supposed to be a joke it is not very funny.Dair said:
don't let the rhetoric fool you, DavidL is desperate for a Labour-SNP government so the Legal Aid system is restored and his £50,000 of our taxes becomes £100,000.Theuniondivvie said:
Just like SLab, the party you *might* be voting for? Though SLab's voting intentions in Westminster seem to be approaching peak irrelevance.
And no, it's not a joke. It's a comment on the legal profession and their hypocrisy over supporting Tory over leftist government when they depend, fundamentally on leftist subsidies.0 -
Do we think the couple of policies labour brought out yesterday will have any movement good or bad for labour in next few days polls ?0
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The infrastructure to service Vanguard boats, Trident missiles and warheads isn't there, and never will be.franklyn said:
It is nothing to do with the Spanish (albeit that Spain is a strong supporter of Nato). The local Gibraltarians already support a naval presence (and regularly ask for a stronger one) and Gibraltar is regularly visited by British and American nuclear subs. All the infrastructure is thereEh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?0 -
The result won't be that indecisive. Labour will unambiguously lose! Standing still or going backwards can't be spun any other way.RodCrosby said:
Problem is in the aftermath of an indecisive result and the possibility of another election, they would probably keep him in place. Labour leadership elections take months...SouthamObserver said:
Ed's problem is the lack of a power base that will fight for him. Labour will stand still or go slightly backwards next week and I'd expect some big beasts to appear very quickly to say Labour has no mandate to try to form a government. Implicit in that is that Ed has failed and should go. And to be fair, the biggest catastrophe in modern Labour history - the total loss of Scotland - has happened on his watch. Not even Michael Foot managed that.Danny565 said:
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.SouthamObserver said:
That's pretty much the way I see it, but with Labour 30-40 seats behind the Tories we'll never find out. This time next month they'll be looking for a new leader and we'll be starting two years of major constitutional fun under a minority Tory government supported by the LDs and the DUP.kle4 said:
As long as the SNP are sensible, and we have no reason to believe they will not be unless they get a bit overexcited, and don't start off by making all sorts of silly and unreasonable demands which are obviously designed to benefit Scotland and only Scotland at the expense of England - which should not be too hard to manage - then although there is a good indication a fair few people have concerns about such a pact, those concerns will be mollified for the first little while, and if they can manage that, then it just becomes another government from then on.SouthamObserver said:If a Labour/SNP understanding in the Commons keeps 35% of the electorate onside, it's pretty much job done. I don't get this automatic assumption that "England" will rebel when around that percentage will probably end up voting Labour or Green. Throw in the 4% the SNP gets in Scotland and you start off with quite a fair bit of support. Then what happens if we don't get the worst crisis since the abdication and by and large things work out pretty normally: major legislation passed, the odd row, defence sorted with Tory votes etc?
It's unlikely, but not impossible. Catastrophe and revolt affecting the whole of England seems unlikely. The Tories and UKIP will be furious; the LDs less so.
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Yeah, but after Greece joins Russia in The Axis of Incoherent Rage, we'll need the subs in Gibraltar to keep them in the Med.Tim_B said:
I thought the whole point of the Scottish base was to bottle up the Russians from their Arctic bases. Gibraltar is not much use for that.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?0 -
There are other issues with moving the subs, like where they load their missiles. It would be expensive but we could do it. The SNP hope the kick in the bollocks will numb us stone dead.franklyn said:
Simply not true; there are British and American nuclear subs in and out of Gibraltar all the time; Spain is part of NATO.RobD said:
Spain would be apoplectic if we did that.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
But my guess is we would base them interim in the US.
Moving to south wales just sets up another nationalist aunt sally.
Barrow or Portsmouth. All our navy and ship building would be there anyway.
Save our country and NATO by voting tory is the best option.
0 -
.. You mean someone should vote based on which party gives them the most dosh.. Are you insane?Dair said:
You linked to a £50k public subsidy and as I understand it an Advocate can expect to take home aruond £200k to £250k. So £50k is a big chunk of that money. Frankly even if this is an unusual year, it's still a huge chunk of the public purse.DavidL said:
Dair, I even gave you the link to the Legal Aid site. My LA income does not even reach 5 figures most years and it is by far the least profitable part of my practice. The idea of doing more LA fills me with horror. I turn it away regularly. You have said this a few times now. If it is supposed to be a joke it is not very funny.Dair said:
don't let the rhetoric fool you, DavidL is desperate for a Labour-SNP government so the Legal Aid system is restored and his £50,000 of our taxes becomes £100,000.Theuniondivvie said:
Just like SLab, the party you *might* be voting for? Though SLab's voting intentions in Westminster seem to be approaching peak irrelevance.
And no, it's not a joke. It's a comment on the legal profession and their hypocrisy over supporting Tory over leftist government when they depend, fundamentally on leftist subsidies.0 -
Norway is. Norway has a proper defence budget too. Not the Ruritanian one promised by the SNP.Tim_B said:
I thought the whole point of the Scottish base was to bottle up the Russians from their Arctic bases. Gibraltar is not much use for that.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?0 -
General Election @UKELECTIONS2015
Yougov (UK)
Which of the party leaders do you think is the most
capable leader?
Cameron 33%
Sturgeon 17%
Miliband 15%
Farage 7%
Clegg 4%
0 -
Anecdote alert. Talking to a friend today who was keen for the coalition to continue and worried about Miliband0
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Spanish heads would explode with rage.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?
Therefore we would welcome the subs with open arms.
Hell, we'd welcome cholera if it would piss off the chaperos over the border.0 -
Could the increase in share for the Tories be partly down to April pay packets arriving with a tax cut for all
GDP figures for first quarter due out at 9.30 forecast to be in O.4 to 0.6 range0 -
A velvet divorce would suit both sides at the moment.Ishmael_X said:
Quite often one sees a long term relationship which goes rocky, and then is patched up with a wedding and sighs of relief all round, and then divorce within the year.Dair said:
SLAB floor is about 18% going by the polling figures on certainty to vote and certainty to stay SLAB.kle4 said:Have SLAB hit their floor in the mid20s? At least they don't need to worry about finishing below the Tories in Scotland I guess. Small mercies for them.
We are getting into Czechoslovakia territory btw.
18 months after a No vote the two countries went their own way without further referenda.
Time politicians got together
and worked smooth transition
let rose depart from the heather
to the UK's dissolution.0 -
That's who they really belong to anyway. Perhaps they could even see their way to paying for them too.Flightpath1 said:
There are other issues with moving the subs, like where they load their missiles. It would be expensive but we could do it. The SNP hope the kick in the bollocks will numb us stone dead.franklyn said:
Simply not true; there are British and American nuclear subs in and out of Gibraltar all the time; Spain is part of NATO.RobD said:
Spain would be apoplectic if we did that.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
But my guess is we would base them interim in the US.
Moving to south wales just sets up another nationalist aunt sally.
Barrow or Portsmouth. All our navy and ship building would be there anyway.
Save our country and NATO by voting tory is the best option.
0 -
The answer would be that zero hour contracts play an important part in a dynamic economy, in many circumstances they are both convenient for the employer and the employee. In some situations though they are highly exploitative, and it is here we want to legislate.kle4 said:
Wow - I hope there was more to that answer from Balls, as he in no way even acknowledged the main thrust of that question in that clip. As unsubtle an ignoring of a question as I've seen in a while.Theuniondivvie said:Ouch.
"You're standing in front of a placard that says: 'Ban exploitative zero hours contracts' at an event set up by people who are on zero hour contracts. Aren't you the hypocrite?"
http://tinyurl.com/ldyksrw
By the by, is the use of the word 'exploitative' (which is also how it is in the manifesto) significant at all do people know? As in, is it meant to make people think all zero hours contracts would be banned, when in fact is would only be the 'exploitative' zero hours contracts?
But that's a hard narrative when you have spent four years declaring all zero hour contracts as a cross between the work house and slavery.0 -
Bloody hell, nearly had a connery. Checking in on phone, clicked on comments and up popped a thread saying shock Survation poll has reckless leading by 15pct in Rochester.
Archive button too close to comments !!!!0 -
@IainDale: Lord Oakeshott. What a twat. #newsnight0
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But the majority voted against such a move?Dair said:
A velvet divorce would suit both sides at the moment.Ishmael_X said:
Quite often one sees a long term relationship which goes rocky, and then is patched up with a wedding and sighs of relief all round, and then divorce within the year.Dair said:
SLAB floor is about 18% going by the polling figures on certainty to vote and certainty to stay SLAB.kle4 said:Have SLAB hit their floor in the mid20s? At least they don't need to worry about finishing below the Tories in Scotland I guess. Small mercies for them.
We are getting into Czechoslovakia territory btw.
18 months after a No vote the two countries went their own way without further referenda.
Time politicians got together
and worked smooth transition
let rose depart from the heather
to the UK's dissolution.0 -
This. The Z berth is still maintained and used regularly and we had a US boat in only a few weeks ago.franklyn said:
It is nothing to do with the Spanish (albeit that Spain is a strong supporter of Nato). The local Gibraltarians already support a naval presence (and regularly ask for a stronger one) and Gibraltar is regularly visited by British and American nuclear subs. All the infrastructure is thereEh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?
The Spanish continue to lobby the US to use Rota exclusively but the US have disregarded that pressure so far.0 -
Spud u like update will surely be on here I presume?
Earlier compouter said we blues could enjoy our polls for a few hours until YouGov came out.... oops!0 -
Vanguard boats don't hunt other subs; they disappear in the North Atlantic and sail around in circles.rcs1000 said:
Yeah, but after Greece joins Russia in The Axis of Incoherent Rage, we'll need the subs in Gibraltar to keep them in the Med.Tim_B said:
I thought the whole point of the Scottish base was to bottle up the Russians from their Arctic bases. Gibraltar is not much use for that.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?
Astute boats on the other hand, hunt Bear all the time, in the Med and elsewhere.0 -
On topic. I used to think women were more indecisive than men but now I'm not sure0
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Ever as such, PB Hodges re-writing history. Basil could enjoy a few hours....sheesh!Scrapheap_as_was said:Spud u like update will surely be on here I presume?
Earlier compouter said we blues could enjoy our polls for a few hours until YouGov came out.... oops!0 -
ComRes, Survation, ICM and Ashcroft all giving a Tory lead of between 3% to 6%, is this crossover?0
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Election won, Tory majority nailed on. We had one of these days a few weeks back as well. All good fun.DanSmith said:ComRes, Survation, ICM and Ashcroft all giving a Tory lead of between 3% to 6%, is this crossover?
0 -
The inability to read numbers is certainly consistent with your support for the SNP and indeed most of your posts. In the year I linked to my total earnings from SLAB including outlays and VAT was £6500. I really don't know where you are getting this £50K from- it is a total fantasy.Dair said:
You linked to a £50k public subsidy and as I understand it an Advocate can expect to take home aruond £200k to £250k. So £50k is a big chunk of that money. Frankly even if this is an unusual year, it's still a huge chunk of the public purse.DavidL said:
Dair, I even gave you the link to the Legal Aid site. My LA income does not even reach 5 figures most years and it is by far the least profitable part of my practice. The idea of doing more LA fills me with horror. I turn it away regularly. You have said this a few times now. If it is supposed to be a joke it is not very funny.Dair said:
don't let the rhetoric fool you, DavidL is desperate for a Labour-SNP government so the Legal Aid system is restored and his £50,000 of our taxes becomes £100,000.Theuniondivvie said:
Just like SLab, the party you *might* be voting for? Though SLab's voting intentions in Westminster seem to be approaching peak irrelevance.
And no, it's not a joke. It's a comment on the legal profession and their hypocrisy over supporting Tory over leftist government when they depend, fundamentally on leftist subsidies.
Your figures about what advocates earn are also erroneous.0 -
I'm pretty sure you actually said thatcompouter2 said:
Ever as such, PB Hodges re-writing history. Basil could enjoy a few hours....sheesh!Scrapheap_as_was said:Spud u like update will surely be on here I presume?
Earlier compouter said we blues could enjoy our polls for a few hours until YouGov came out.... oops!
0 -
Will we look back in 11 days time on today's polls as the decisive shift finally? Quite a trip at the weekend - took in Tatton, Crewe & Nantwich, Congleton, Staffs Moorlands, Stone and Stafford. Labour posters thin on the ground in general, although I did take in the more Tory parts of the more marginal constituencies above. There still is a strange sense of apathy in the air that I detect though, but I read that as favouring the Tories.
In my parents Stone constituency, took the time to read through Bill Cash's election address. It contains no fewer than 106 bullet points, including a lot of initiatives he has been involved in including a lot of constituency work that goes unnoticed because of his EU work overshadowing everything else, and if you've had the time to get through that, a 6 or 7 paragraph election address as well in no more than an 8 type font. I feel sorry for anyone elderly trying to read that, they'd need the magnifying glass for sure! A real throwback to 1950's type electioneering I guess! UKIP election leaflet was a centrally produced leaflet, not mentioning Cash once. Although Cash's leaflet was very much vote Cash, without hardly mentioning the word Conservative except in parts of the bullet points.0 -
Only pathetic partisans vary their response to polls dependent on their findingsScrapheap_as_was said:Spud u like update will surely be on here I presume?
Earlier compouter said we blues could enjoy our polls for a few hours until YouGov came out.... oops!0 -
Unscreened thoughts about very mundane things don't seem, to me anyway, worth communicating.kle4 said:
I just love that Twitter has for some reason encouraged even billionaires to act like normal people in sharing unscreened and very normal thoughts about often very mundane things. Who knew what the billionaire powerbrokers of the past really thought about things? But now you have Rupert Murdoch trolling politicians and the Good Lord responding in, let's say, unfiltered fashion to such minor things, to give but two examples. It's great. Not that I've ever used twitter myself - I don't think such a restrictive character limit fits my style.TheScreamingEagles said:htps://twitter.com/TSEofPB/status/592802320490078208
0 -
Tim_B said:
Meanwhile Baltimore is suffering and may be about to explode.
The protests have turned violent, the street gangs are turning on the police, with 7 cops with broken bones and 1 'unresponsive'.
Stores are being looted and cars (mainly police) burned and destroyed. The police were clearly unprepared for the escalation of the unrest and have not thus far handled it well. Unless they get things under control by nightfall - just over an hour - it will be a long night.
To my knowledge the Baltimore PD have yet to release any formal statement regarding the details of how Freddie Gray died in police custody 9 days ago, with a 'nearly severed' spine and a crushed windpipe.
That is not a good sign for the police.
The mayor of Baltimore gave a news conference earlier, and she said that we will make space for those who wish to destroy. She must be regretting it by now.
The wife just suggested dinner in Baltimore this evening. As she follows the news, I think she was joking ...0 -
Even McCluskey is trending SNP.peter_from_putney said:
That, of course, is a matter entirely for Mr. Len McCluskey to decide.Danny565 said:
I was wondering about this earlier. Do you think Miliband will go if Labour fail to get into government? I'm starting to wonder if he might try and argue that, due to his now semi-respectable personal ratings, he should be allowed to have another chance.0 -
Mucho tittering. We should send polly t a framed copy of that front page if cammo is returned as pmRobD said:0 -
Who's we?rcs1000 said:
Yeah, but after Greece joins Russia in The Axis of Incoherent Rage, we'll need the subs in Gibraltar to keep them in the Med.Tim_B said:
I thought the whole point of the Scottish base was to bottle up the Russians from their Arctic bases. Gibraltar is not much use for that.Eh_ehm_a_eh said:
Less than you would be led to believe.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
And do the Spanish just roll over and welcome these subs?
Do the Gibraltarians?
The Russians don't maintain much of a fleet, no real interest in full spectrum dominance, more live and let live. It's a sustainable policy, just look at respective debt levels.
Trident always comes across as a generational issue, can't say I have ever heard a friend or contempary show must interest in maintaining it. Anyway the SNP have rendered the argument irrelevant.0 -
compouter2 said:
Ever as such, PB Hodges re-writing history. Basil could enjoy a few hours....sheesh!Scrapheap_as_was said:Spud u like update will surely be on here I presume?
Earlier compouter said we blues could enjoy our polls for a few hours until YouGov came out.... oops!
He did. A few hours of pb hodgery until YouGov came out. Who cares tho when we're busy popping corks!RobD said:
I'm pretty sure you actually said thatcompouter2 said:
Ever as such, PB Hodges re-writing history. Basil could enjoy a few hours....sheesh!Scrapheap_as_was said:Spud u like update will surely be on here I presume?
Earlier compouter said we blues could enjoy our polls for a few hours until YouGov came out.... oops!
0 -
You guys would have fun - it would be a riotMTimT said:Tim_B said:Meanwhile Baltimore is suffering and may be about to explode.
The protests have turned violent, the street gangs are turning on the police, with 7 cops with broken bones and 1 'unresponsive'.
Stores are being looted and cars (mainly police) burned and destroyed. The police were clearly unprepared for the escalation of the unrest and have not thus far handled it well. Unless they get things under control by nightfall - just over an hour - it will be a long night.
To my knowledge the Baltimore PD have yet to release any formal statement regarding the details of how Freddie Gray died in police custody 9 days ago, with a 'nearly severed' spine and a crushed windpipe.
That is not a good sign for the police.
The mayor of Baltimore gave a news conference earlier, and she said that we will make space for those who wish to destroy. She must be regretting it by now.
The wife just suggested dinner in Baltimore this evening. As she follows the news, I think she was joking ...
Governor Larry Hogan has AT LAST declared a state of emergency and called in the National Guard - after over a week?
Meanwhile the crowds are building pre-sunset for trouble. It will be a long night in Baltimore0 -
Don't want them in England, let the Americans pay for their own weapons.Flightpath1 said:
There are other issues with moving the subs, like where they load their missiles. It would be expensive but we could do it. The SNP hope the kick in the bollocks will numb us stone dead.franklyn said:
Simply not true; there are British and American nuclear subs in and out of Gibraltar all the time; Spain is part of NATO.RobD said:
Spain would be apoplectic if we did that.franklyn said:How many Scottish jobs will lost when Faslane is shut and the sub base moved to Gibraltar..which is a much more useful strategic base anyway
But my guess is we would base them interim in the US.
Moving to south wales just sets up another nationalist aunt sally.
Barrow or Portsmouth. All our navy and ship building would be there anyway.
Save our country and NATO by voting tory is the best option.0 -
Lawyers have that option - working for the Law Centre movement. They don't have to rely on the public purse (or earn bonuses from it), Law Centre lawyers get a pretty hard time of it and even more now.Luckyguy1983 said:
Isn't it a virtue to support something you believe in even though it may be to your pecuniary disadvantage?Dair said:
You linked to a £50k public subsidy and as I understand it an Advocate can expect to take home aruond £200k to £250k. So £50k is a big chunk of that money. Frankly even if this is an unusual year, it's still a huge chunk of the public purse.DavidL said:
Dair, I even gave you the link to the Legal Aid site. My LA income does not even reach 5 figures most years and it is by far the least profitable part of my practice. The idea of doing more LA fills me with horror. I turn it away regularly. You have said this a few times now. If it is supposed to be a joke it is not very funny.Dair said:
don't let the rhetoric fool you, DavidL is desperate for a Labour-SNP government so the Legal Aid system is restored and his £50,000 of our taxes becomes £100,000.Theuniondivvie said:
Just like SLab, the party you *might* be voting for? Though SLab's voting intentions in Westminster seem to be approaching peak irrelevance.
And no, it's not a joke. It's a comment on the legal profession and their hypocrisy over supporting Tory over leftist government when they depend, fundamentally on leftist subsidies.
Most lawyers just want to earn as much as they can from the public purse and DavidL is only an exception in his £50k a year is a lot less than many other Advocates filch from public funds.0 -
Eric Holder and Barak Obama will be proud, bros before laws.0
