politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Tories move to win the elder brothers’ vote – a wise mo
Comments
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Since 2007 the NIE has confirmed Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program.richardDodd said:So Iran is not going to sign a nuclear weapons deal until ALL sanctions are off the table..Lets get rid of Trident..we will never need it..
http://antiwar.com/blog/2015/04/01/why-iran-distrusts-the-us-in-nuke-talks/0 -
One of my favourite books also references that/this story often, East of Eden. Have you read it?antifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
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AF
"This type of direct attack is brutal. I assume that it has been focus grouped within an inch of its life. I don't care for it one little bit, but it isn't aimed at me."
Very much preaching to the converted. Unless it's adding to anyone's knowledge I'd expect the effects to be negligible. Both the unpleasantness of the attack which is only likely to offend Fallons own supporters and the substance which feels too feeble so really just a waste of campaigning time I'd say.0 -
It's not true that armour was ineffective against longbows.FalseFlag said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Alistair said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.Dair said:
Perhaps you should do some reading up on how useful Carriers actually are.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
Here's a clue. Aircraft Carriers have no defence against Ballistic Missiles (1940s technology). None.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/
youtu.be/q1WZLVZYBwQ0 -
That does not address the point I was making: the article looks entirely wrongheaded. And linky to the admiral's comments, please.FalseFlag said:
When asked by Congress the USN admitted that a carrier's life expectancy was a few days, maybe a week if they stayed in port in real war scenario.JosiasJessop said:
The central theme of that article seems bogus to me: Harpoon missiles are in no way 'ballistic' missiles, and the pop-up manoeuvre does not make it one.FalseFlag said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Alistair said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.Dair said:
Perhaps you should do some reading up on how useful Carriers actually are.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
Here's a clue. Aircraft Carriers have no defence against Ballistic Missiles (1940s technology). None.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/0 -
Whut? I thought Augusta famously restricted live TV to a few hours a day, and always had. Also, didn't they concede a bit a few years ago to show amen corner all day, but not the rest of the course?MikeK said:
I'm following it on PGA.com and the Golf Channel (USA), but it's not like the old days when the BBC would show the entire 4 days from first ball to last. I'll also miss that old whisperer, Peter Allis.TGOHF said:
Rory's price is miles too short too. Reed a good shout. Not starting on Sky until 8pm - bah.MikeK said:
Patric Reed stands a good chance and the there's always Rory...............but my vibes are not vibrating for him this time.TGOHF said:
If Bubba shoots a couple of early bogies I might back if his price goes out.MikeK said:
I'm on Speith £50 EW @ 15/1TGOHF said:
Any bets on ?MikeK said:I shall be concentrating on The Masters for the next 4 days. Oh to be among the azaleas now that April's here.
I will be following the campaign too, from time to time.
I'm on Speith and Dustin J...
and Ernie Els for old times @125/1 £20 EW.0 -
The photo of the bro's in the header
" I know it was you Eddo.. you broke my heart"0 -
Ships named after blokes should be referred to as he/him/his in my opinionDair said:
She's still a she even with a male name.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron and the Conservatives have already committed to fitting out the PoW and putting it (*) into service.Dair said:
If they committed to fitting out HMS Prince Charles and arming it along with thousands of jobs that would bring, they don't need to look soft, they can sell it as "far more suited to the modern threats like ISIS" there little risk of that.Danny565 said:
Imo, a lot of "working-class" core Labour voters wouldn't take well to any impression of Labour being soft on defence. It was one of the main reasons Thatcher made inroads with those voters.Dair said:Labour are on a core vote strategy. Dropping Trident 2 would have absolutely no effect on their core vote. Might even get them a LOT of Greens onside and a big chunk of the former Liberals.
Not persuaded they would lose anything even without the Prince Charles commitment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307
(*) I think ships are meant to be referred to as 'her'., but that seems wrong with one called the Prince of Wales?
And oh, those Tories, spending from the Magic Money Tree again. When will they learn.
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For all of us on either Labour or Tory sides who have frustrations with our campaigns, atleast we can console ourselves with one thing:
It's not as lacklustre or uninspiring as the Lib Dem campaign.0 -
Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes0 -
Wasn't there some mention of ICM doing daily/weekly polls during the campaign period?MikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes
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What campaign? (BBC won't mention LDs as much as possible as their natural voters are left of centre)Danny565 said:For all of us on either Labour or Tory sides who have frustrations with our campaigns, atleast we can console ourselves with one thing:
It's not as lacklustre or uninspiring as the Lib Dem campaign.0 -
Not quite true, TSE. There were still a fair number of aircraft in al Rasheed airbase when I used to go there in the mid 1990s. Each time the US threatened a renewal of hostilities, they were dispersed for preservation against bombing/missile attacks. But as an effective force, the first Gulf war eviscerated it.TheScreamingEagles said:
All the Iraqi Air Force defected to Iran during the first Gulf War.OblitusSumMe said:Did Saddam put any planes in the air in 2003, or would it have been the time before?
Plato said:When did the RAF shoot something down? Isn't it all RN airman that do most of this now?
TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.0 -
ICM phone polls probably weeklyMikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes
ComRes phone polls weekly
Ipsos Mori probably two or three in total between now and election day.0 -
FF..Do you actually believe the Iranians..They are the source of more trouble in that part of the world than any other nation in the area..And to my knowledge they have not rescinded the claim that they will completely destroy the Israelis and the state of Israel..nice..0
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I saw that article a while ago. And it is awful. I don't have the time to deconstruct it fully but as a general rule of thumb you can discount any article on the military that present cavalry-vs-longbow in such a cack fisted one-dimensional manner.FalseFlag said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Alistair said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.Dair said:
Perhaps you should do some reading up on how useful Carriers actually are.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
Here's a clue. Aircraft Carriers have no defence against Ballistic Missiles (1940s technology). None.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/0 -
The main network live coverage (which can show anything happening on any hole at that time) has been massively extended.Anorak said:
Whut? I thought Augusta famously restricted live TV to a few hours a day, and always had. Also, didn't they concede a bit a few years ago to show amen corner all day, but not the rest of the course?MikeK said:
I'm following it on PGA.com and the Golf Channel (USA), but it's not like the old days when the BBC would show the entire 4 days from first ball to last. I'll also miss that old whisperer, Peter Allis.TGOHF said:
Rory's price is miles too short too. Reed a good shout. Not starting on Sky until 8pm - bah.MikeK said:
Patric Reed stands a good chance and the there's always Rory...............but my vibes are not vibrating for him this time.TGOHF said:
If Bubba shoots a couple of early bogies I might back if his price goes out.MikeK said:
I'm on Speith £50 EW @ 15/1TGOHF said:
Any bets on ?MikeK said:I shall be concentrating on The Masters for the next 4 days. Oh to be among the azaleas now that April's here.
I will be following the campaign too, from time to time.
I'm on Speith and Dustin J...
and Ernie Els for old times @125/1 £20 EW.
It's now (US times):
Thurs 3.00 to 7.30
Fri 3.00 to 7.30
Sat 3.00 to 7.00
Sun 2.00 to 7.00
(Total = 18 hours)
Back in the late 90s (approx) it was:
Thurs 4.00 to 7.00
Fri 4.00 to 7.00
Sat 3.30 to 6.30
Sun 4.00 to 7.00
(Total = 12 hours)
NB Tee times have moved back a bit on first 3 days so play finishes a bit later.0 -
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?0 -
Any old excuse for Montgomerie to rubbish the tories.
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OK - thanks a lot - by the way I know you answered re ICM yesterday - was just wondering if you know what day of the week we will get each weekly - presumably they will start next week.TheScreamingEagles said:
ICM phone polls probably weeklyMikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes
ComRes phone polls weekly
Ipsos Mori probably two or three in total between now and election day.0 -
Plato said:
Holy Moly - I didn't know they existed
Santa Fe accomplished the resupply mission and landed the marine troops on 25 April. Members of the Argentine garrison had salvaged a crippled BAS launch, which was used to download the cargo.[5]
Some hours later, after leaving Grytviken, Santa Fe was detected on radar by Lieutenant Chris Parry, the observer of the Westland Wessex HAS.3 anti-submarine helicopter from HMS Antrim, and attacked with depth charges. This attack caused extensive internal damage, including the splitting of a ballast tank, the dismounting of electrical components and shocks to the machineryJosiasJessop said:
Heck, the RN are so fierce they even sunk a submarine using a helicopter.Plato said:When did the RAF shoot something down? Isn't it all RN airman that do most of this now?
TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Santa_Fe_(S-21)
Labour (and especially Hoon) should be ashamed of the way they emasculated the FAA.
ARA Santa Fe wasn't sunk by the helicopter, merely disabled. She was captured at South Georgia and eventually scuttled in 1985, three years after the war.0 -
My basic problem with Trident is that its both a deterrence against and a reason to get to the end of the world. Because any scenario where keys are being turned on HMS Vengeance is a scenario where the UK will no longer exist going forwards.
In a cold war where the Soviets pouring through the Fulda Gap, getting stopped, escalating to tactical nukes then the thing slipping out of control was a viable risk, I understood why we needed SSBNs. But that isn't a risk any more. The risk is of russia or other powers dragging NATO into a regional war that threatens to break out of theatre.
A more flexible deterrent would be gravity bombs delivered by the RAF. A nuclear deterrent doesn't have to be 24 hour SSBN launch on warning. Why not fit our F35s with B61-12s?0 -
There were also "giants" mentioned. Presumably what we call Neanderthals?weejonnie said:
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?0 -
Just to add there is continuous coverage of Amen Corner, Hole 15/16, and two featured groups (showing the whole back 9) on the red button on Sky.Anorak said:
Whut? I thought Augusta famously restricted live TV to a few hours a day, and always had. Also, didn't they concede a bit a few years ago to show amen corner all day, but not the rest of the course?MikeK said:
I'm following it on PGA.com and the Golf Channel (USA), but it's not like the old days when the BBC would show the entire 4 days from first ball to last. I'll also miss that old whisperer, Peter Allis.TGOHF said:
Rory's price is miles too short too. Reed a good shout. Not starting on Sky until 8pm - bah.MikeK said:
Patric Reed stands a good chance and the there's always Rory...............but my vibes are not vibrating for him this time.TGOHF said:
If Bubba shoots a couple of early bogies I might back if his price goes out.MikeK said:
I'm on Speith £50 EW @ 15/1TGOHF said:
Any bets on ?MikeK said:I shall be concentrating on The Masters for the next 4 days. Oh to be among the azaleas now that April's here.
I will be following the campaign too, from time to time.
I'm on Speith and Dustin J...
and Ernie Els for old times @125/1 £20 EW.
Sky's full coverage starts at 7pm today (ie an hour before US network coverage) - they show can show delayed clips of action in the first hour.0 -
Navy ships shouldn't have poncy male or female names but proper mean fighting names like Warspite, Dreadnought, Ironduke, Bloodaxe, Throatripper, Kittenstomper, Deathangel, etc. The RN dropped a bollock with this 'HMS Queen Elisabeth' nonsense. Bah humbug!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Ships named after blokes should be referred to as he/him/his in my opinionDair said:
She's still a she even with a male name.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron and the Conservatives have already committed to fitting out the PoW and putting it (*) into service.Dair said:
If they committed to fitting out HMS Prince Charles and arming it along with thousands of jobs that would bring, they don't need to look soft, they can sell it as "far more suited to the modern threats like ISIS" there little risk of that.Danny565 said:
Imo, a lot of "working-class" core Labour voters wouldn't take well to any impression of Labour being soft on defence. It was one of the main reasons Thatcher made inroads with those voters.Dair said:Labour are on a core vote strategy. Dropping Trident 2 would have absolutely no effect on their core vote. Might even get them a LOT of Greens onside and a big chunk of the former Liberals.
Not persuaded they would lose anything even without the Prince Charles commitment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307
(*) I think ships are meant to be referred to as 'her'., but that seems wrong with one called the Prince of Wales?
And oh, those Tories, spending from the Magic Money Tree again. When will they learn.0 -
Why? I think you're flying a massive assumption kite there without providing any evidence whatsoever.Mortimer said:
Wont play well in the Midland marginals.Plato said:What has Thatcher got to do with it?
He'd make a Safe Pair Of Hands if Cameron did step down defeated/whilst leadership contest was in progress.Mortimer said:I like Fallon, but wasn't he a Minister under Thatcher. I can't see him being a credible leadership candidate.
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He married his sister. Garden of Eden = Norfolkweejonnie said:
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?0 -
ICM prefer to poll Fri to Sun, so assuming normal contact rates, they should publish on Mon/Tues.MikeL said:
OK - thanks a lot - by the way I know you answered re ICM yesterday - was just wondering if you know what day of the week we will get each weekly - presumably they will start next week.TheScreamingEagles said:
ICM phone polls probably weeklyMikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes
ComRes phone polls weekly
Ipsos Mori probably two or three in total between now and election day.
Their final poll will be on the Wednesday/Thursday0 -
Convenient.Alistair said:
I saw that article a while ago. And it is awful. I don't have the time to deconstruct it fully but as a general rule of thumb you can discount any article on the military that present cavalry-vs-longbow in such a cack fisted one-dimensional manner.FalseFlag said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Alistair said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.Dair said:
Perhaps you should do some reading up on how useful Carriers actually are.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
Here's a clue. Aircraft Carriers have no defence against Ballistic Missiles (1940s technology). None.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/
How many ships did we lose to the Argentines in the Falklands? Tech has moved on from the exocet.0 -
This week has been a bit shit regarding the number and frequency of polls!anotherDave said:
Wasn't there some mention of ICM doing daily/weekly polls during the campaign period?MikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes0 -
Also, not a good vibe in wartime when your monarch is sent to the bottom of the ocean.Patrick said:
Navy ships shouldn't have poncy male or female names but proper mean fighting names like Warspite, Dreadnought, Ironduke, Bloodaxe, Throatripper, Kittenstomper, Deathangel, etc. The RN dropped a bollock with this 'HMS Queen Elisabeth' nonsense. Bah humbug!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Ships named after blokes should be referred to as he/him/his in my opinionDair said:
She's still a she even with a male name.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron and the Conservatives have already committed to fitting out the PoW and putting it (*) into service.Dair said:
If they committed to fitting out HMS Prince Charles and arming it along with thousands of jobs that would bring, they don't need to look soft, they can sell it as "far more suited to the modern threats like ISIS" there little risk of that.Danny565 said:
Imo, a lot of "working-class" core Labour voters wouldn't take well to any impression of Labour being soft on defence. It was one of the main reasons Thatcher made inroads with those voters.Dair said:Labour are on a core vote strategy. Dropping Trident 2 would have absolutely no effect on their core vote. Might even get them a LOT of Greens onside and a big chunk of the former Liberals.
Not persuaded they would lose anything even without the Prince Charles commitment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307
(*) I think ships are meant to be referred to as 'her'., but that seems wrong with one called the Prince of Wales?
And oh, those Tories, spending from the Magic Money Tree again. When will they learn.0 -
Bet there was still a queue for a new iPhone.weejonnie said:
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?0 -
Ed M stood because of what he is... a hard left socialist, not a 'Blairite' left one. David Miliband would not agree to crass non dom expulsion policies like Ed. Basically Ed cannot stand the policy ground Dave M walks on. Its no lie to say they really hate each other.Scott_P said:
Standing against him is not the act of betrayal. Persuading him not to stand against Gordo when he could have won is the treacherous bitrullko said:If Ed M "stabbed his own brother in the back" - it's always nice to see a senior government minister capable of avoiding cliché - then so did David M, right?
How unrelated do you have to be to someone for it no longer to be dishonourable to compete against them? Would cousins be okay?
A lot like the Syria vote
Labour had 17 years in opposition then 13 years in government and another 5 in opposition before they decided non doms were evil. The fact that Ed M is leader is not unrelated (no pun intended)0 -
The F35 has a combat mission range of around 600 miles, or (I think) a one-way radius without refuelling of 1,400 or so. That covers very little of the Earth's surface, even if we parked the carrier on the beach.RochdalePioneers said:My basic problem with Trident is that its both a deterrence against and a reason to get to the end of the world. Because any scenario where keys are being turned on HMS Vengeance is a scenario where the UK will no longer exist going forwards.
In a cold war where the Soviets pouring through the Fulda Gap, getting stopped, escalating to tactical nukes then the thing slipping out of control was a viable risk, I understood why we needed SSBNs. But that isn't a risk any more. The risk is of russia or other powers dragging NATO into a regional war that threatens to break out of theatre.
A more flexible deterrent would be gravity bombs delivered by the RAF. A nuclear deterrent doesn't have to be 24 hour SSBN launch on warning. Why not fit our F35s with B61-12s?0 -
Logic and religious texts aren't good bedfellows.weejonnie said:
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?0 -
Back in the 70s, Admiral Rickover, the “father of nuclear navy,” had to answer the question before the U.S. Senate: “How long would our aircraft carriers survive in a battle against the Russian Navy?” His response caused disillusionment: “Two or three days before they sink, maybe a week if they stay in the harbor.”JosiasJessop said:
That does not address the point I was making: the article looks entirely wrongheaded. And linky to the admiral's comments, please.FalseFlag said:
When asked by Congress the USN admitted that a carrier's life expectancy was a few days, maybe a week if they stayed in port in real war scenario.JosiasJessop said:
The central theme of that article seems bogus to me: Harpoon missiles are in no way 'ballistic' missiles, and the pop-up manoeuvre does not make it one.FalseFlag said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Alistair said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.Dair said:
Perhaps you should do some reading up on how useful Carriers actually are.Indigo said:
Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
Here's a clue. Aircraft Carriers have no defence against Ballistic Missiles (1940s technology). None.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/0 -
Over 4 billion believers in this stuff !weejonnie said:
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?
Would you Adam and Eve it
0 -
JosiasJessop said:FalseFlag said:
Ballistic missiles are great against a static target, less so if attacking one that is moving around the ocean. And a carrier battle group is hardly likely to hang around a port in wartime.JosiasJessop said:
That does not address the point I was making: the article looks entirely wrongheaded. And linky to the admiral's comments, please.FalseFlag said:
When asked by Congress the USN admitted that a carrier's life expectancy was a few days, maybe a week if they stayed in port in real war scenario.Alistair said:
The central theme of that article seems bogus to me: Harpoon missiles are in no way 'ballistic' missiles, and the pop-up manoeuvre does not make it one.Dair said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Indigo said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.TheScreamingEagles said:Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/0 -
Conservative campaign so far = Negative, pointless and going nowhere.
Hopefully Lynton will be on his bike with Cameron and Osborne after 8th May...0 -
Ballistic missiles are great against a static target, less so if attacking one that is moving around the ocean. And a carrier battle group is hardly likely to hang around a port in wartime. The minute it all kicks off, ships head out to the wide open sea.0 -
Noone will, they are fighting 60 by-elections.Plato said:I can honestly say that I haven't noticed the LD campaign at all.
Danny565 said:For all of us on either Labour or Tory sides who have frustrations with our campaigns, atleast we can console ourselves with one thing:
It's not as lacklustre or uninspiring as the Lib Dem campaign.0 -
The "OK Class" Destroyers, introduced by the Miliband administration in 2019:Patrick said:
Navy ships shouldn't have poncy male or female names but proper mean fighting names like Warspite, Dreadnought, Ironduke, Bloodaxe, Throatripper, Kittenstomper, Deathangel, etc. The RN dropped a bollock with this 'HMS Queen Elisabeth' nonsense. Bah humbug!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Ships named after blokes should be referred to as he/him/his in my opinionDair said:
She's still a she even with a male name.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron and the Conservatives have already committed to fitting out the PoW and putting it (*) into service.Dair said:
If they committed to fitting out HMS Prince Charles and arming it along with thousands of jobs that would bring, they don't need to look soft, they can sell it as "far more suited to the modern threats like ISIS" there little risk of that.Danny565 said:
Imo, a lot of "working-class" core Labour voters wouldn't take well to any impression of Labour being soft on defence. It was one of the main reasons Thatcher made inroads with those voters.Dair said:Labour are on a core vote strategy. Dropping Trident 2 would have absolutely no effect on their core vote. Might even get them a LOT of Greens onside and a big chunk of the former Liberals.
Not persuaded they would lose anything even without the Prince Charles commitment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307
(*) I think ships are meant to be referred to as 'her'., but that seems wrong with one called the Prince of Wales?
And oh, those Tories, spending from the Magic Money Tree again. When will they learn.
HMS OK
HMS Alright
HMS So So
HMS Not Bad
HMS Adequate
HMS Even Stevens
HMS Satisfactory
HMS Moderate
HMS Average
HMS Sufficient 0 -
All this talk of trident reminds of the epic episode of Yes PM where Jim Hacker tries to cancel it. Fantastic
0 -
Thanks for the info re MX box, Plato. Looking in to it, seems to good to be true but will get one this week from Amazon.
0 -
I thought they died out a long time before.
As the 2014 study by Thomas Higham of Neanderthal bones and tools indicates that Neanderthals died out in Europe between 41,000 and 39,000 years ago, and that Homo sapiens arrived in Europe between 45,000 and 43,000 years ago, it is now apparent that the two different human populations shared Europe for as long as 5,000 years.[59] The exact nature of biological and cultural interaction between Neanderthals and other human groups has been contested.[111]
Possible scenarios for the extinction of the Neanderthals are:
Neanderthals were a separate species from modern humans, and became extinct (because of climate change or interaction with humans) and were replaced by modern humans moving into their habitat between 45,000 and 40,000 years ago.[112] Jared Diamond has suggested a scenario of violent conflict and displacement.[113]
Neanderthals were a contemporary subspecies that bred with modern humans and disappeared through absorption (interbreeding theory).Sunil_Prasannan said:
There were also "giants" mentioned. Presumably what we call Neanderthals?weejonnie said:
I always find it amusingantifrank said:All those referencing Cain and Abel should recall that Cain was the older brother. And it was Cain that ended up in the land of Nod, while when Ed Miliband speaks, it's the audience that is sent there.
"So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
17 Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. "
Now Cain was the elder son of Adam and Abel the younger - so where did his wife come from - and why did he need to build a city as presumably there were only three people alive at the time - Adam Eve and Cain?0 -
You do not seem to understand your subject. Labour commissioned these carriers without the steam power to operate catapults. The incoming govt did a study into the still unproven magnetic catapults but even if they worked they were too expensive. Labour underestimated the time taken to bring the F35 into service but it will do the job when it does.Tabman said:
Not a view that I necessarily disagree with. I would have much preferred the Cat and Trap version if we have to have it.FalseFlag said:
Optimistic that you think the F35 will come into service. Awful plane, designed to be all things to all services and so does nothing well. Anyway everything will be drones and remote controlled in the future.Tabman said:
The Navy have very few fixed-wing pilots left since the demise of the Harrier (and even then Joint Force Harrier meant some of the ship-borne jobs were undertaken by RAF pilots). I believe the handful that remain are currently flying Super Entendards with the French in order to keep carrier skills alive until 2020.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
When the F-35 comes on stream again I believe its going to be a joint force with complete interoperability between land and ship based aircraft and pilots, so ship-borne crews will be a mix of RN and RAF pilots (and vice versa).
We could have bought F18s or Super Etendards off the shelf.0 -
Isn't the UK locked into W76s by the NNPT? As I understand it the UK cannot commission new warheads but only maintain the current ones.RochdalePioneers said:My basic problem with Trident is that its both a deterrence against and a reason to get to the end of the world. Because any scenario where keys are being turned on HMS Vengeance is a scenario where the UK will no longer exist going forwards.
In a cold war where the Soviets pouring through the Fulda Gap, getting stopped, escalating to tactical nukes then the thing slipping out of control was a viable risk, I understood why we needed SSBNs. But that isn't a risk any more. The risk is of russia or other powers dragging NATO into a regional war that threatens to break out of theatre.
A more flexible deterrent would be gravity bombs delivered by the RAF. A nuclear deterrent doesn't have to be 24 hour SSBN launch on warning. Why not fit our F35s with B61-12s?0 -
Many thanks once again.TheScreamingEagles said:
ICM prefer to poll Fri to Sun, so assuming normal contact rates, they should publish on Mon/Tues.MikeL said:
OK - thanks a lot - by the way I know you answered re ICM yesterday - was just wondering if you know what day of the week we will get each weekly - presumably they will start next week.TheScreamingEagles said:
ICM phone polls probably weeklyMikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes
ComRes phone polls weekly
Ipsos Mori probably two or three in total between now and election day.
Their final poll will be on the Wednesday/Thursday0 -
At least 1 F35 training squadron has been set up and planes are being delivered for training.TheWatcher said:
'Seedcorn' pilots are flying in the US too.Tabman said:
The Navy have very few fixed-wing pilots left since the demise of the Harrier (and even then Joint Force Harrier meant some of the ship-borne jobs were undertaken by RAF pilots). I believe the handful that remain are currently flying Super Entendards with the French in order to keep carrier skills alive until 2020.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
When the F-35 comes on stream again I believe its going to be a joint force with complete interoperability between land and ship based aircraft and pilots, so ship-borne crews will be a mix of RN and RAF pilots (and vice versa).0 -
The final act of the Crosby Saga could be for Dave to very publicly sack him. Before May 7th.GIN1138 said:Conservative campaign so far = Negative, pointless and going nowhere.
Hopefully Lynton will be on his bike with Cameron and Osborne after 8th May...
If it's worth a point in the polls....0 -
However, it's all tracked by satellite. Nothing is hidden, cloud cover is easily pierced by the all seeing eyes.TheWatcher said:
Ballistic missiles are great against a static target, less so if attacking one that is moving around the ocean. And a carrier battle group is hardly likely to hang around a port in wartime. The minute it all kicks off, ships head out to the wide open sea.0 -
You missed HMS BackstabberSunil_Prasannan said:
The "OK Class" Destroyers, introduced by the Miliband administration in 2019:Patrick said:
Navy ships shouldn't have poncy male or female names but proper mean fighting names like Warspite, Dreadnought, Ironduke, Bloodaxe, Throatripper, Kittenstomper, Deathangel, etc. The RN dropped a bollock with this 'HMS Queen Elisabeth' nonsense. Bah humbug!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Ships named after blokes should be referred to as he/him/his in my opinionDair said:
She's still a she even with a male name.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron and the Conservatives have already committed to fitting out the PoW and putting it (*) into service.Dair said:
If they committed to fitting out HMS Prince Charles and arming it along with thousands of jobs that would bring, they don't need to look soft, they can sell it as "far more suited to the modern threats like ISIS" there little risk of that.Danny565 said:
Imo, a lot of "working-class" core Labour voters wouldn't take well to any impression of Labour being soft on defence. It was one of the main reasons Thatcher made inroads with those voters.Dair said:Labour are on a core vote strategy. Dropping Trident 2 would have absolutely no effect on their core vote. Might even get them a LOT of Greens onside and a big chunk of the former Liberals.
Not persuaded they would lose anything even without the Prince Charles commitment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307
(*) I think ships are meant to be referred to as 'her'., but that seems wrong with one called the Prince of Wales?
And oh, those Tories, spending from the Magic Money Tree again. When will they learn.
HMS OK
HMS Alright
HMS So So
HMS Not Bad
HMS Adequate
HMS Even Stevens
HMS Satisfactory
HMS Moderate
HMS Average
HMS Sufficient
0 -
For Eastbourne - I've had a single Focus leaflet pushed through the door. That's it.
CCHQ aren't canvassing me as I'm a member. Nothing from anyone else.Pulpstar said:
Noone will, they are fighting 60 by-elections.Plato said:I can honestly say that I haven't noticed the LD campaign at all.
Danny565 said:For all of us on either Labour or Tory sides who have frustrations with our campaigns, atleast we can console ourselves with one thing:
It's not as lacklustre or uninspiring as the Lib Dem campaign.0 -
Plato said:
Holy Moly - I didn't know they existed
Santa Fe accomplished the resupply mission and landed the marine troops on 25 April. Members of the Argentine garrison had salvaged a crippled BAS launch, which was used to download the cargo.[5]
Some hours later, after leaving Grytviken, Santa Fe was detected on radar by Lieutenant Chris Parry, the observer of the Westland Wessex HAS.3 anti-submarine helicopter from HMS Antrim, and attacked with depth charges. This attack caused extensive internal damage, including the splitting of a ballast tank, the dismounting of electrical components and shocks to the machineryJosiasJessop said:
Heck, the RN are so fierce they even sunk a submarine using a helicopter.Plato said:When did the RAF shoot something down? Isn't it all RN airman that do most of this now?
TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Santa_Fe_(S-21)
Labour (and especially Hoon) should be ashamed of the way they emasculated the FAA.
I have stood beside Petty Officer Felix Artuso's grave in Grytviken. He is in the same small cemetery as Sir Ernest Shackleton.0 -
The awful trade figures appear to have passed most people by today. Not possible to blame the Eurozone this time, as the ONS says:
"The widening of the trade deficit between January and February 2015 mainly reflects a fall in exports of goods to non-EU countries, particularly to the United States."
You would think that the Opposition would want to talk about this complete failure of government policy, which is so bad that:
"Exports of goods fell by £900m over the month to £23.2bn - the lowest in almost four and a half years."
Unfortunately we have a fantasy election being fought on a false prospectus of the state of the British economy.0 -
Sunil
If things go as they seem about to politically the upcoming navy ships will be a class of white flag waving kayaks. The lead boat will be HMS Couldntfightitswayoutofapaperbagbutrunsonnutfreeenvironmentallysafebiofuelandcrewedbyethniclesbiansthathattieharmanapprovesof0 -
Whilst being very unPC - a great many of the Iraqi Air Force seemed to attend Sunderland Poly when my hubbie was there in the mid-80s.
*Rasheed* was commonly turned into PizzaFace.MTimT said:
Not quite true, TSE. There were still a fair number of aircraft in al Rasheed airbase when I used to go there in the mid 1990s. Each time the US threatened a renewal of hostilities, they were dispersed for preservation against bombing/missile attacks. But as an effective force, the first Gulf war eviscerated it.TheScreamingEagles said:
All the Iraqi Air Force defected to Iran during the first Gulf War.OblitusSumMe said:Did Saddam put any planes in the air in 2003, or would it have been the time before?
Plato said:When did the RAF shoot something down? Isn't it all RN airman that do most of this now?
TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.0 -
I know the Tories are split but to call them a "half party".....RobD said:0 -
Losses in the Falklands were as much down to the materials used in the construction of the ships and their design, as the weapons they were attacked with. Naval architects learned a massive amount from that war.FalseFlag said:
Convenient.Alistair said:
I saw that article a while ago. And it is awful. I don't have the time to deconstruct it fully but as a general rule of thumb you can discount any article on the military that present cavalry-vs-longbow in such a cack fisted one-dimensional manner.FalseFlag said:
The war nerd had good article explaining why the navy, but especially carriers, are just sitting ducks.Alistair said:
No-one has a proven anti-ship ballistic missile.Dair said:
Perhaps you should do some reading up on how useful Carriers actually are.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
Here's a clue. Aircraft Carriers have no defence against Ballistic Missiles (1940s technology). None.
I know, I know, you've heard about some Chinese something or other but that's a project, it's not an actual thing that's actually been used. IT was used by the US Navy to try and get more funding for their toys.
And, in practice no-one would use a ballistic missile against an actual carrier group because the trouble with ballistic missiles is that they look like ballistic missiles and that means they are indistinguishable from a nuclear weapon launch.
http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/2/
How many ships did we lose to the Argentines in the Falklands? Tech has moved on from the exocet.0 -
The budget doesn't run to trying to poll all the Tories who have flown out the country for a fortnight....Sunil_Prasannan said:
This week has been a bit shit regarding the number and frequency of polls!anotherDave said:
Wasn't there some mention of ICM doing daily/weekly polls during the campaign period?MikeL said:Can someone post an approx polling schedule for the less frequent pollsters?
We know about YouGov, Populus, Ashcroft
What is the schedule for the other most important pollsters - ie ICM, MORI, ComRes
Normal service will be resumed by the middle of next week.
0 -
Not sure that would fit on both sides of the bow, as it would need wrapped round the stern to fit onPatrick said:Sunil
If things go as they seem about to politically the upcoming navy ships will be a class of white flag waving kayaks. The lead boat will be HMS Couldntfightitswayoutofapaperbagbutrunsonnutfreeenvironmentallysafebiofuelandcrewedbyethniclesbiansthathattieharmanapprovesof 0 -
That was Rickover's view. It's why the USN rarely send a carrier anywhere alone without a carrier battle group around it, including hunter-killer submarines and destroyers.FalseFlag said:Back in the 70s, Admiral Rickover, the “father of nuclear navy,” had to answer the question before the U.S. Senate: “How long would our aircraft carriers survive in a battle against the Russian Navy?” His response caused disillusionment: “Two or three days before they sink, maybe a week if they stay in the harbor.”
And the quote (or at least this version) looks a little different, according to this article:
http://articles.latimes.com/1987-05-18/local/me-346_1_aircraft-carriers-all-out-war-sen-william-proxmire
And the damage a CBG could do in those two days is significant.0 -
Crikey I'd have thought the streets would be awash with "Winning here" yellow paint in Eastbourne. I mean I've not noticed there is even an election on, but NE Derbyshire is a big ask for the Conservatives and my ward is solid Labour tbh.Plato said:For Eastbourne - I've had a single Focus leaflet pushed through the door. That's it.
CCHQ aren't canvassing me as I'm a member. Nothing from anyone else.Pulpstar said:
Noone will, they are fighting 60 by-elections.Plato said:I can honestly say that I haven't noticed the LD campaign at all.
Danny565 said:For all of us on either Labour or Tory sides who have frustrations with our campaigns, atleast we can console ourselves with one thing:
It's not as lacklustre or uninspiring as the Lib Dem campaign.0 -
Yes, I understand that. The ships should have been designed to take CTOL aircraft from the off. Then we could have bought aircraft already available rather than wait for the unproven F-35.Flightpath said:
You do not seem to understand your subject. Labour commissioned these carriers without the steam power to operate catapults. The incoming govt did a study into the still unproven magnetic catapults but even if they worked they were too expensive. Labour underestimated the time taken to bring the F35 into service but it will do the job when it does.Tabman said:
Not a view that I necessarily disagree with. I would have much preferred the Cat and Trap version if we have to have it.FalseFlag said:
Optimistic that you think the F35 will come into service. Awful plane, designed to be all things to all services and so does nothing well. Anyway everything will be drones and remote controlled in the future.Tabman said:
The Navy have very few fixed-wing pilots left since the demise of the Harrier (and even then Joint Force Harrier meant some of the ship-borne jobs were undertaken by RAF pilots). I believe the handful that remain are currently flying Super Entendards with the French in order to keep carrier skills alive until 2020.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
When the F-35 comes on stream again I believe its going to be a joint force with complete interoperability between land and ship based aircraft and pilots, so ship-borne crews will be a mix of RN and RAF pilots (and vice versa).
We could have bought F18s or Super Etendards off the shelf.
0 -
@May2015NS: New YGov/Scotland poll tonight. We hear it's newsworthy... All recent polls have put SNP in mid-40s and Labour in high 20s: who's up/down?0
-
Anorak said:
You missed HMS BackstabberSunil_Prasannan said:
The "OK Class" Destroyers, introduced by the Miliband administration in 2019:Patrick said:
Navy ships shouldn't have poncy male or female names but proper mean fighting names like Warspite, Dreadnought, Ironduke, Bloodaxe, Throatripper, Kittenstomper, Deathangel, etc. The RN dropped a bollock with this 'HMS Queen Elisabeth' nonsense. Bah humbug!Sunil_Prasannan said:
Ships named after blokes should be referred to as he/him/his in my opinionDair said:
She's still a she even with a male name.JosiasJessop said:
Cameron and the Conservatives have already committed to fitting out the PoW and putting it (*) into service.Dair said:
If they committed to fitting out HMS Prince Charles and arming it along with thousands of jobs that would bring, they don't need to look soft, they can sell it as "far more suited to the modern threats like ISIS" there little risk of that.Danny565 said:
Imo, a lot of "working-class" core Labour voters wouldn't take well to any impression of Labour being soft on defence. It was one of the main reasons Thatcher made inroads with those voters.Dair said:Labour are on a core vote strategy. Dropping Trident 2 would have absolutely no effect on their core vote. Might even get them a LOT of Greens onside and a big chunk of the former Liberals.
Not persuaded they would lose anything even without the Prince Charles commitment.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29075307
(*) I think ships are meant to be referred to as 'her'., but that seems wrong with one called the Prince of Wales?
And oh, those Tories, spending from the Magic Money Tree again. When will they learn.
HMS OK
HMS Alright
HMS So So
HMS Not Bad
HMS Adequate
HMS Even Stevens
HMS Satisfactory
HMS Moderate
HMS Average
HMS Sufficient0 -
Tory surge??Scott_P said:@May2015NS: New YGov/Scotland poll tonight. We hear it's newsworthy... All recent polls have put SNP in mid-40s and Labour in high 20s: who's up/down?
0 -
Remind me how many countries Iran has attacked/invaded since the mad mullahs took over?richardDodd said:So Iran is not going to sign a nuclear weapons deal until ALL sanctions are off the table..Lets get rid of Trident..we will never need it..
0 -
I would love to go but sadly it's not on my list and no, I've never been.SimonStClare said:
Afternoon Mr.K, may I ask if a visit to Augusta is on your bucket list, or have you been?MikeK said:
I'm following it on PGA.com and the Golf Channel (USA), but it's not like the old days when the BBC would show the entire 4 days from first ball to last. I'll also miss that old whisperer, Peter Allis.TGOHF said:
Rory's price is miles too short too. Reed a good shout. Not starting on Sky until 8pm - bah.MikeK said:
Patric Reed stands a good chance and the there's always Rory...............but my vibes are not vibrating for him this time.TGOHF said:
If Bubba shoots a couple of early bogies I might back if his price goes out.MikeK said:
I'm on Speith £50 EW @ 15/1TGOHF said:
Any bets on ?MikeK said:I shall be concentrating on The Masters for the next 4 days. Oh to be among the azaleas now that April's here.
I will be following the campaign too, from time to time.
I'm on Speith and Dustin J...
and Ernie Els for old times @125/1 £20 EW.0 -
Apparently HMS Taxdodger will be sold off to the Swiss navy.0
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Didn't lack of airborne radar coverage also hinder things? ISTR that the shipborne radars could not see planes incoming from beyond the hills.TheWatcher said:
Losses in the Falklands were as much down to the materials used in the construction of the ships and their design, as the weapons they were attacked with. Naval architects learned a massive amount from that war.
Another reason why having a carrier without CATOBAR is madness. Thanks, Labour.0 -
And there are RN pilots flying the F-18 IIRC. Presumably we have other crew (fitters, flight deck officers etc) keeping the skills alive too.Flightpath said:
At least 1 F35 training squadron has been set up and planes are being delivered for training.TheWatcher said:
'Seedcorn' pilots are flying in the US too.Tabman said:
The Navy have very few fixed-wing pilots left since the demise of the Harrier (and even then Joint Force Harrier meant some of the ship-borne jobs were undertaken by RAF pilots). I believe the handful that remain are currently flying Super Entendards with the French in order to keep carrier skills alive until 2020.Indigo said:
The role for the RAF is fading fast, projecting power is about carriers, you could almost reduce the RAF to an airspace defense/interdiction force and move all the strike capability to Fleet Air Arm (if we had a few real carriers and support ships). Sadly a Nimitz class carrier costs around $4.5bn, so about twice as much as the whole trident replacement program.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
When the F-35 comes on stream again I believe its going to be a joint force with complete interoperability between land and ship based aircraft and pilots, so ship-borne crews will be a mix of RN and RAF pilots (and vice versa).0 -
Nominations have just closed for prospective general election candidates. It'll be interesting to see how many of those who said they would stand actually do so:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0At91c3wX1Wu5dFkzTjFrRmJRN3F6ODBTTEs4NGFhcUE#gid=00 -
They do it by proxies. Clever, no?Luckyguy1983 said:
Remind me how many countries Iran has attacked/invaded since the mad mullahs took over?richardDodd said:So Iran is not going to sign a nuclear weapons deal until ALL sanctions are off the table..Lets get rid of Trident..we will never need it..
0 -
Whoa. I meant to ask you about your past travel destinations. Didn't you visit the back end of beyond in an ocean a few years ago?
I'm building an epic travel bucket list and thought of you.
I have stood beside Petty Officer Felix Artuso's grave in Grytviken. He is in the same small cemetery as Sir Ernest Shackleton.MarqueeMark said:Plato said:Holy Moly - I didn't know they existed
Santa Fe accomplished the resupply mission and landed the marine troops on 25 April. Members of the Argentine garrison had salvaged a crippled BAS launch, which was used to download the cargo.[5]
Some hours later, after leaving Grytviken, Santa Fe was detected on radar by Lieutenant Chris Parry, the observer of the Westland Wessex HAS.3 anti-submarine helicopter from HMS Antrim, and attacked with depth charges. This attack caused extensive internal damage, including the splitting of a ballast tank, the dismounting of electrical components and shocks to the machineryJosiasJessop said:
Heck, the RN are so fierce they even sunk a submarine using a helicopter.Plato said:When did the RAF shoot something down? Isn't it all RN airman that do most of this now?
TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Santa_Fe_(S-21)
Labour (and especially Hoon) should be ashamed of the way they emasculated the FAA.
0 -
Satellites can be utterly useless at observing sea and land surfaces through cloud cover, and might not be passing over the ocean where a battle group is stationed (their orbits are all plotted). Why do you think the US are still operating U2's?MikeK said:
However, it's all tracked by satellite. Nothing is hidden, cloud cover is easily pierced by the all seeing eyes.TheWatcher said:
Ballistic missiles are great against a static target, less so if attacking one that is moving around the ocean. And a carrier battle group is hardly likely to hang around a port in wartime. The minute it all kicks off, ships head out to the wide open sea.0 -
Surely highly likely to be SNP down / Lab up.Scott_P said:@May2015NS: New YGov/Scotland poll tonight. We hear it's newsworthy... All recent polls have put SNP in mid-40s and Labour in high 20s: who's up/down?
Could be a big moment.0 -
I can't see a Labour comeback in Scotland, but it would be ever so funny if it did happen. It would completely mess up the entire Tory strategy.0
-
I'm going on a tour of Eastbourne on Monday afternoon as a recce to see what's visible campaign wise.
Will report back.Pulpstar said:
Crikey I'd have thought the streets would be awash with "Winning here" yellow paint in Eastbourne. I mean I've not noticed there is even an election on, but NE Derbyshire is a big ask for the Conservatives and my ward is solid Labour tbh.Plato said:For Eastbourne - I've had a single Focus leaflet pushed through the door. That's it.
CCHQ aren't canvassing me as I'm a member. Nothing from anyone else.Pulpstar said:
Noone will, they are fighting 60 by-elections.Plato said:I can honestly say that I haven't noticed the LD campaign at all.
Danny565 said:For all of us on either Labour or Tory sides who have frustrations with our campaigns, atleast we can console ourselves with one thing:
It's not as lacklustre or uninspiring as the Lib Dem campaign.0 -
For all the talk of how Labour are screwed in Scotland, there actually doesn't need to be THAT much of a swingback there for a disproportionally large number of seats to fall back into Labour hands...SouthamObserver said:I can't see a Labour comeback in Scotland, but it would be ever so funny if it did happen. It would completely mess up the entire Tory strategy.
A lot of the Ashcroft polls in Scotland showed relatively slender leads, albeit with some absolute blowouts like Dundee West.0 -
Ms Plato,
I believe there was confirmation recently of Neanderthal DNA in humans (to no one's great surprise - if it was possible to have sex, we assumed they would). They did mingle and the only doubt was whether the embryo would be viable. By that I mean that it could be carried to term.
Clearly it was.0 -
LOLSandyRentool said:
Apparently HMS Taxdodger will be sold off to the Swiss navy.
0 -
More likely yet another overhyped poll that doesn't change anything.MikeL said:
Surely highly likely to be SNP down / Lab up.Scott_P said:@May2015NS: New YGov/Scotland poll tonight. We hear it's newsworthy... All recent polls have put SNP in mid-40s and Labour in high 20s: who's up/down?
Could be a big moment.0 -
HMS Tinyurl would work.Anorak said:
Not sure that would fit on both sides of the bow, as it would need wrapped round the stern to fit onPatrick said:Sunil
If things go as they seem about to politically the upcoming navy ships will be a class of white flag waving kayaks. The lead boat will be HMS Couldntfightitswayoutofapaperbagbutrunsonnutfreeenvironmentallysafebiofuelandcrewedbyethniclesbiansthathattieharmanapprovesof
0 -
They should ask TSE to create one.Ishmael_X said:
HMS Tinyurl would work.Anorak said:
Not sure that would fit on both sides of the bow, as it would need wrapped round the stern to fit onPatrick said:Sunil
If things go as they seem about to politically the upcoming navy ships will be a class of white flag waving kayaks. The lead boat will be HMS Couldntfightitswayoutofapaperbagbutrunsonnutfreeenvironmentallysafebiofuelandcrewedbyethniclesbiansthathattieharmanapprovesof0 -
It be fascinating to know the probably of a viable offspring. Mules are famously sterile, will ligers and tions be so?CD13 said:
Ms Plato,
I believe there was confirmation recently of Neanderthal DNA in humans (to no one's great surprise - if it was possible to have sex, we assumed they would). They did mingle and the only doubt was whether the embryo would be viable.
Clearly it was.0 -
@MrHarryCole: Minority Labour gov, propped up by SNP. Tory Private Members' Bill on renewing Trident. Splat.0
-
Ta Mr.K - from what I've seen, tis a truly beautiful golf course, enjoy the coverage.MikeK said:
I would love to go but sadly it's not on my list and no, I've never been.SimonStClare said:
Afternoon Mr.K, may I ask if a visit to Augusta is on your bucket list, or have you been?MikeK said:
I'm following it on PGA.com and the Golf Channel (USA), but it's not like the old days when the BBC would show the entire 4 days from first ball to last. I'll also miss that old whisperer, Peter Allis.TGOHF said:
Rory's price is miles too short too. Reed a good shout. Not starting on Sky until 8pm - bah.MikeK said:
Patric Reed stands a good chance and the there's always Rory...............but my vibes are not vibrating for him this time.TGOHF said:
If Bubba shoots a couple of early bogies I might back if his price goes out.MikeK said:
I'm on Speith £50 EW @ 15/1TGOHF said:
Any bets on ?MikeK said:I shall be concentrating on The Masters for the next 4 days. Oh to be among the azaleas now that April's here.
I will be following the campaign too, from time to time.
I'm on Speith and Dustin J...
and Ernie Els for old times @125/1 £20 EW.0 -
Plato said:
Whoa. I meant to ask you about your past travel destinations. Didn't you visit the back end of beyond in an ocean a few years ago?
I'm building an epic travel bucket list and thought of you.
I have stood beside Petty Officer Felix Artuso's grave in Grytviken. He is in the same small cemetery as Sir Ernest Shackleton.MarqueeMark said:Plato said:Holy Moly - I didn't know they existed
Santa Fe accomplished the resupply mission and landed the marine troops on 25 April. Members of the Argentine garrison had salvaged a crippled BAS launch, which was used to download the cargo.[5]
Some hours later, after leaving Grytviken, Santa Fe was detected on radar by Lieutenant Chris Parry, the observer of the Westland Wessex HAS.3 anti-submarine helicopter from HMS Antrim, and attacked with depth charges. This attack caused extensive internal damage, including the splitting of a ballast tank, the dismounting of electrical components and shocks to the machineryJosiasJessop said:
Heck, the RN are so fierce they even sunk a submarine using a helicopter.Plato said:When did the RAF shoot something down? Isn't it all RN airman that do most of this now?
TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm also very strong on defence.Indigo said:
Your the liberal metro elite leader of Economical Dry But Not Banging On About Europe and Gays.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm a far right Tory, and I'd be ok with us not replacing Trident.Danny565 said:I'm a loony lefty, but I like the idea of keeping Trident. It might be irrational, but I don't want to risk being "naked" in this world with so many threats, thanks.
I'd increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP and spend the money on the Navy and our conventional forces.
It is a shame, the RAF really have become the few.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_Santa_Fe_(S-21)
Labour (and especially Hoon) should be ashamed of the way they emasculated the FAA.
I was doing it four years ago. The little bits of Empire dotted around the southern Atlantic.
Ushaia, Tierra del Fuego --> Antarctica --> South Georgia --> Gough Island --> Tristan da Cunha (and Nightingale Island and Inaccessible Island) --> St. Helena --> Ascension Island --> Cape Verde
0 -
I'm calling the YouGov/Scotland poll now.
Murphy and Davidson slaughtered Sturgeon.
Lab in first place, Con in second place and the SNP on the slide into third.0 -
That was where Labour were utter sh*ts. They said the ships were being designed so they could be retrofitted with catapults at a later date. When the coalition asked BAE to convert them, it turned out that had not been a design requirement for many years.Tabman said:
Yes, I understand that. The ships should have been designed to take CTOL aircraft from the off. Then we could have bought aircraft already available rather than wait for the unproven F-35.Flightpath said:
You do not seem to understand your subject. Labour commissioned these carriers without the steam power to operate catapults. The incoming govt did a study into the still unproven magnetic catapults but even if they worked they were too expensive. Labour underestimated the time taken to bring the F35 into service but it will do the job when it does.
EMALS (the electric, as opposed to steam, launch system) is also far from ready for service.0
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