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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » In first post-debate poll Survation finds LAB 2% ahead and

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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054



    I think the greatest effect that will arise from these sessions is Miliband shoring up his core vote, in England.

    The era of him risking shedding a big part of his base to the Greens is probably over. That, and increased Labour turnout, may help him swipe a few more marginals.

    Anecdotally I think that's right. We had two rain-soaked canvasses today, one in a posh ward, where virtually nobody was changing their previous stance, and one in a WWC ward, where there was a trickle of previous ex-Labour doubtfuls firming up, mostly from UKIP's previous limited inroads (typical comment: "I think they've been useful in shaking things up but they're a one-trick pony"). The Greens have never been a problem in this marginal - I thought they might be, but it's not turned out that way so far. One voter said she was definitely not voting, and it struck me that it's the first time I've heard that explicitly for a couple of weeks. High turnout after all?

    FPT GeoffM: I agree with you that assisted dying should be legal, with safeguards to avoid it being done in a fleeting bad moment.
    If I lived in a Labour/Tory marginal I'd probably vote Labour. However if you canvassed me I'd probably tell you I was going to vote Green or stay at home on the basis of your not supporting PR, Ed not being very convincing etc. However in the privacy of the voting booth I'd probably do what's needed to stop the Tories.
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    tyson said:

    Thanks Ishmael and Nige then for clarifying the...? (I've spent too long in Italy to remember the word for letter abbreviations)

    Acronyms
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    NeilVW said:

    tyson said:

    And while we are at it Sunil Prasannan, my vegetarian comrade. What does ELBOW stand for?

    Sorry to but in, but Electoral Leader Board of the Week, and EICIPM means Ed Is Crap is PM.

    Can someone explain Basil the squirrel to me, I don't get that one!
    A certain poster whose name escapes me noticed that the PB Tories only wanted to discuss polling when it looked good for them. When a strong poll came out for Labour suddenly the conversation turned to the weather, or whatever. The squirrel reference is to, I think, the film Up where the dogs get distracted every so often by squirrels - e.g. they point at squirrels rather than discuss uncomfortable facts.

    The poster also ridiculed the fact that crossover (tory leads in the polls) was repeatedly predicted but still hasn't consistently emerged. Basil would normally turn up and have to "move the goalposts" to his annoyance.

    Bit sad to follow this stuff but I do find the quirks of this site entertaining
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,899
    Squirrel/Badger?
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Sky NewsVerified account
    @SkyNews TIMES FRONT PAGE: "Sturgeon triumph has Labour in turmoil" #skypapers



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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,800
    antifrank said:

    Could someone good at maths or betting (or preferably both) tell me how I should approach the Sporting Index market on 300-up seats? Surely the Conservatives are a clear sell at 6 - or am I missing something very obvious?

    I see the SNP are now up to 42-44. I'm starting to contemplate closing my buy on this, but not yet I think.

    It's what financial markets call an option.Your max win is 6 and your max loss is 350 (eek!). You can price it by assigning a probability to each outcome and multiplying the potential gains or losses by those probabilities (and this is true of pretty much all similar contracts).

    Perhaps an easier way to consider it though is just consider 3 events Tories 300 or less, Tories overall majority, or Tories 'thumping majority' You can get the market's view of the middle one from betfair - about 12.5%, and the 300 or less thing is perhaps 75%, with the thumping majority maybe having a 1% chance. So you get 6*0.70 - 19 * 0.125 - 69 *0.01 - and broadly that suggests the pricing isn't far wrong.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    i FRONT PAGE: "Sturgeon takes centre stage" #skypapers
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Peter Dominiczak ‏@peterdominiczak 2m2 minutes ago
    Exc: Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And at the same time the Daily Mail has this:
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/584088587433541633/photo/1


    Remember the Clegg is Nazi/Communist/Islamist from the 2010 debates?
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Omnium said:

    antifrank said:

    Could someone good at maths or betting (or preferably both) tell me how I should approach the Sporting Index market on 300-up seats? Surely the Conservatives are a clear sell at 6 - or am I missing something very obvious?

    I see the SNP are now up to 42-44. I'm starting to contemplate closing my buy on this, but not yet I think.

    It's what financial markets call an option.Your max win is 6 and your max loss is 350 (eek!). You can price it by assigning a probability to each outcome and multiplying the potential gains or losses by those probabilities (and this is true of pretty much all similar contracts).

    Perhaps an easier way to consider it though is just consider 3 events Tories 300 or less, Tories overall majority, or Tories 'thumping majority' You can get the market's view of the middle one from betfair - about 12.5%, and the 300 or less thing is perhaps 75%, with the thumping majority maybe having a 1% chance. So you get 6*0.70 - 19 * 0.125 - 69 *0.01 - and broadly that suggests the pricing isn't far wrong.
    Putting my own view of the odds in, it looks like a sell to me.

    I won't stress too much about the max loss of 350.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Squirrel/Badger?

    Yeah it was to do with Owen Paterson saying the badgers moved the goalposts wasn't it
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    The EU will get you if you don't watch out!

    EXPRESS: Foreign aid bill to soar by £1bn #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/YZnWEZSJkk

    — Neil Henderson (@hendopolis) April 3, 2015
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    I wonder if this could have some effect? It certainly might deal a blow to her reputation as genuine and honest.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2015
    Well according to the papers Sturgeon is both a Tory and a radical left winger at the same time.

    Same old tactics that were used successfully on Clegg in 2010.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vhdNCCyJaj8/S9A92UaADoI/AAAAAAAABVk/IJKmkhA-MBg/s400/89681389-5579e2755983fbd890077a70c5c1bcea.4bd03d4a-scaled.jpg

    We will see how much power has the press lost 5 years later.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron

    The SNP leader told the French Ambassador in February that she would prefer that "David Cameron remain” in Downing Street, according to an official account of their conversation seen by The Daily Telegraph



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    Anthony's updated the UKPR polling average - Con and Lab Tied on 34% each and Lab projected to be 26 short of an overall majority...
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2015
    Speedy said:

    Well according to the papers Sturgeon is both a Tory and a radical left winger at the same time.

    Same old tactics that were used successfully on Clegg in 2010.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vhdNCCyJaj8/S9A92UaADoI/AAAAAAAABVk/IJKmkhA-MBg/s400/89681389-5579e2755983fbd890077a70c5c1bcea.4bd03d4a-scaled.jpg

    We will see how much power has the press lost 5 years later.

    Remember when Clegg won the debates last time...we got exactly this stuff. The Mail in particular dug up all sorts of ancient stuff.

    If it made any difference to the deflation of the cleggasm I have no idea.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,899
    Freggles said:

    Squirrel/Badger?

    Yeah it was to do with Owen Paterson saying the badgers moved the goalposts wasn't it
    Thanks

    We are a strange collection of people aren't we.
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    CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Danny565 said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    I wonder if this could have some effect? It certainly might deal a blow to her reputation as genuine and honest.

    Reckon it's going to get increasingly rats in a sack all round tbh.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited April 2015
    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this. Are they getting so desperate ? Anyway, this is a breach of protocol. The Tories cannot be trusted even with a confidential meeting concerning a diplomat.

    Next, Foreign governments will not trust the Brits keeping things secret.

    On another note, the rise and rise of EICIPM seems unstoppable.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054
    Danny565 said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    I wonder if this could have some effect? It certainly might deal a blow to her reputation as genuine and honest.
    Labour needs to fight back on the SNP thing. Point out that the Tories want the SNP to get as many MPs as possible and that those posters are designed to get Scots to vote SNP. Some party of the union.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    MikeL said:

    Per Curtice (BBC):

    Polls say 4 did well - Cam, Mil, Far, Stur
    3 did much less well - Cleg, Ben, Wood

    However, people are inclined to say their own party won. And Cam and Mil both had FAR fewer saying they won than support their parties.

    Thus the winners were Far and Stur. Both Cam and Mil have cause for concern:

    - Cam that Far will have turned the UKIP decline and may start rising again
    - Mil that Stur seen as clear winner in Scotland which will help SNP retain big lead

    However, wait and see polls in 3 to 4 days time. Paxman interviews made no difference - this debate may not either.

    As ever a high quality verdict from Curtice.

    I think Paxo did make a difference - the big two definitely headed upwards. Of course the gap didn't change much so it wasn't noticed.
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron

    The SNP leader told the French Ambassador in February that she would prefer that "David Cameron remain” in Downing Street, according to an official account of their conversation seen by The Daily Telegraph



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And "doesn't see ed as PM material". Said confidentially to a foreign diplomat, that is devastating.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    edited April 2015

    Sky NewsVerified account
    @SkyNews TIMES FRONT PAGE: "Sturgeon triumph has Labour in turmoil" #skypapers

    The Telegraph so far has 30% of Labour voters saying Sturgeon won debates. A few comments ago I asked that if Miliband did so good how come Labour are still going to lose 40 seats in Scotland and how did Sturgeon supposedly win.

    Meantime since it is still Easter I see that Carswell has refused three times before the cock crowed to endorse saviour's comments on Aids sufferers.

    Rather annoyingly 'Mr Carswell has urged Ukip to champion the benefits of immigration and to reject “ugly nativism” – remarks that irked some of Mr Farage’s closest allies.'
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,899
    Just realised I don't even know what ARSE stands for

    In fact had to look at my Spreadsheet to work out BJESUS
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2015

    Speedy said:

    Well according to the papers Sturgeon is both a Tory and a radical left winger at the same time.

    Same old tactics that were used successfully on Clegg in 2010.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vhdNCCyJaj8/S9A92UaADoI/AAAAAAAABVk/IJKmkhA-MBg/s400/89681389-5579e2755983fbd890077a70c5c1bcea.4bd03d4a-scaled.jpg

    We will see how much power has the press lost 5 years later.

    Remember when Clegg won the debates last time...we got exactly this stuff. The Mail in particular dug up all sorts of ancient stuff.

    If it made any difference to the deflation of the cleggasm I have no idea.
    I know, that is why I don't believe anything that newspapers say during an election campaign.
    Private Eye is the exception, and for a good reason:
    https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/583866400541933568/photo/1
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    Danny565 said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    I wonder if this could have some effect? It certainly might deal a blow to her reputation as genuine and honest.
    Labour needs to fight back on the SNP thing. Point out that the Tories want the SNP to get as many MPs as possible and that those posters are designed to get Scots to vote SNP. Some party of the union.
    Too late now - labour will have heavy loses in Scotland
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    Evening all :)

    I'm tempted to see the Sturgeon scare story in the same light as the various anti-Clegg stories run in the aftermath of the first debate five years ago. The Mail is a pro-Conservative newspaper and it will run stories guaranteed to disadvantage the opponents of the Conservative party (primarily Labour) and with a view to boosting the vote of the Conservative Party.

    Fair enough, it's a free press but view what the Mail prints through that prism and it's easy to see what they are trying to do and the truth.

    The Mail is terrified of the Conservatives losing power and being replaced by a Labour-SNP Government led by Ed Miliband not that I suppose it would lose a single reader if it happened and it would still be the principal "voice of the resistance" but there you go...
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Just realised I don't even know what ARSE stands for

    In fact had to look at my Spreadsheet to work out BJESUS

    It refers to Jack W's backside ! Where from most of his thoughts come out !
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    The next debate is interesting. Though Ed has a hard task, he is at least there.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054
    surbiton said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this. Are they getting so desperate ? Anyway, this is a breach of protocol. THe Tories cannot be trusted even with a confidential meeting concerning a diplomat.

    Next, Foreign governments would not trust the Brits keeping things secret.

    On another note, the rise and rise of EICIPM seems unstoppable.
    I can't believe the Tories would leak that, it makes no sense. Are the French worried about the future of the UK and out to get the SNP? Vive l'ambassador!
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited April 2015
    Sturgeon's offer of a “progressive alternative” to “blind austerity” was welcomed by Labour candidates, meanwhile, adding substance to Tory claims that Scottish Nationalists would drag a Miliband government to the left.

    Fabian Hamilton, who hopes to be re-elected as Labour MP for Leeds North East, said that there was “admiration” for the SNP leader. “A lot of my constituents have been asking me whether Labour would be less austere [than the Tories]. They don’t want austerity, and that’s people from across the social spectrum. That’s the message I’m getting on the doorstep.”

    David Lammy, who is fighting to be Labour’s mayoral candidate in London, acknowledged the “appeal” of Ms Sturgeon’s message, while Steve Rotheram, Labour’s candidate in Liverpool Walton, said that the SNP leader had “performed well”. Her anti-austerity agenda was shared on Labour’s left, he added.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4402036.ece
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ishmael_X said:

    Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron

    The SNP leader told the French Ambassador in February that she would prefer that "David Cameron remain” in Downing Street, according to an official account of their conversation seen by The Daily Telegraph



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And "doesn't see ed as PM material". Said confidentially to a foreign diplomat, that is devastating.
    Devastating to who ?
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    PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    What the blazers is going on? Labour majority has gone out to 40 on betfair.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    The next debate is interesting. Though Ed has a hard task, he is at least there.

    That’s if Miliband takes part. There are already rumors circulating he may uncover an urgent alternative engagement, though an aide I spoke to insisted: “he’ll be there.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11514944/Ed-Miliband-has-been-badly-outflanked-from-the-left.html
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    surbiton said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this. Are they getting so desperate ? Anyway, this is a breach of protocol. THe Tories cannot be trusted even with a confidential meeting concerning a diplomat.

    Next, Foreign governments would not trust the Brits keeping things secret.

    On another note, the rise and rise of EICIPM seems unstoppable.
    Why on earth would the Tories leak it-this bad news for the Tories if it was believed.

    I think you are allowing your hatred for the Tories to warp your analysis.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2015
    surbiton said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this.
    I don't see that's true. The Tories were pushing Ms Sturgeon as a winner yesterday.

    "Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, and Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said the “astonishing” account of her comments proves that the SNP really wants a Tory Government with few or no MPs in Scotland, allowing the party to push the case for a second independence referendum."

    Labour/LD seem to be behind this. They're the two parties on track to lose seats to the SNP too.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Freggles said:

    Squirrel/Badger?

    Yeah it was to do with Owen Paterson saying the badgers moved the goalposts wasn't it
    Thanks

    We are a strange collection of people aren't we.
    Yes, hopefully there is another Yorkshire PB meet up this year.
    It was hilarious meeting usernames in person.
    Anyway you didn't reply to my post the other day about your PB nickname for your wife?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,292
    edited April 2015
    Six people arrested on suspicion of Syria-related terrorism offences at Dover

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3024942/Six-people-arrested-suspicion-Syria-related-terrorism-offences-Dover.html

    Another trip from Islamist Tours Ltd rudely interrupted. I hear it was a lads weekend to Raqqa, for a spot of site seeing.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @NicolaSturgeon: .@simon_telegraph your story is categorically, 100%, untrue...which I'd have told you if you'd asked me at any point today
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    I might being a bit thick here, but this Sturgeon story sounds like, if anything, a good thing for Labour. Surely Labour can claim that the SNP might prop up the Tories even if they say otherwise?
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    SaltireSaltire Posts: 525
    Don't know why the Tories are trying to help the SNP's campaign. The Nationalists are beating Labour like a drum here in Scotland as it is.
    Do they think that they can get some Labour voters to switch to them to keep the nasty Scots out of power at Westminster??
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    surbiton said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron

    The SNP leader told the French Ambassador in February that she would prefer that "David Cameron remain” in Downing Street, according to an official account of their conversation seen by The Daily Telegraph



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And "doesn't see ed as PM material". Said confidentially to a foreign diplomat, that is devastating.
    Devastating to who ?
    To Sturgeon of course.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited April 2015
    GIN1138 said:

    Anthony's updated the UKPR polling average - Con and Lab Tied on 34% each and Lab projected to be 26 short of an overall majority...

    Does UKPR take account of the Scottish situation or does it still do UNS across GB ?
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    ELBOW - Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week
    ARSE - Assorted Random Selection of Electors
    BJESUS - Big John Election Service Uniform Swing
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    MikeK said:

    The EU will get you if you don't watch out!

    EXPRESS: Foreign aid bill to soar by £1bn #tomorrowspaperstoday pic.twitter.com/YZnWEZSJkk

    — Neil Henderson (@hendopolis) April 3, 2015
    Worth every penny. No doubt all of it will be used for really worthwhile causes.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited April 2015
    Speedy said:

    Peter Dominiczak ‏@peterdominiczak 2m2 minutes ago
    Exc: Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And at the same time the Daily Mail has this:
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/584088587433541633/photo/1


    Remember the Clegg is Nazi/Communist/Islamist from the 2010 debates?

    Labour's vote driven into the ground further in Scotland by the SNP whilst the English, fearful of the SNP calling the shot's move's to block SNP influence by shifting to the Conservatives.

    That's the plan anyway? :smiley:

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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    surbiton said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Anthony's updated the UKPR polling average - Con and Lab Tied on 34% each and Lab projected to be 26 short of an overall majority...

    Does UKPR take account of the Scottish situation or does it still do UNS across GB ?
    Wells said that he changed it to take that into account.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    tlg86 said:

    I might being a bit thick here, but this Sturgeon story sounds like, if anything, a good thing for Labour. Surely Labour can claim that the SNP might prop up the Tories even if they say otherwise?

    Yes, I don't understand why people would try and say it would help the Tories/SNP. One of the key planks of the SNP campaign to Labour voters is that they would always lean to a Labour government over a Tory one.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,205
    Scott_P said:

    @NicolaSturgeon: .@simon_telegraph your story is categorically, 100%, untrue...which I'd have told you if you'd asked me at any point today

    Never believe anything until it's been categorically denied!
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    I have been posting for weeks and months that the SNP will get the best deal for Scotland from David Cameron and that there is more than an even chance that this is negotiable between both parties from 8th May. The telegraph story only re-affirms my view
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Just realised I don't even know what ARSE stands for

    In fact had to look at my Spreadsheet to work out BJESUS

    Anonymised
    Random
    Selection of
    Electors
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    surbiton said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron

    The SNP leader told the French Ambassador in February that she would prefer that "David Cameron remain” in Downing Street, according to an official account of their conversation seen by The Daily Telegraph



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And "doesn't see ed as PM material". Said confidentially to a foreign diplomat, that is devastating.
    Devastating to who ?
    To anyone who would like to believe that "Ed is crap" is a partisan slogan, rather than a sober and objective statement of the facts.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    Nicola Sturgeon ‏@NicolaSturgeon 6m6 minutes ago
    .@simon_telegraph your story is categorically, 100%, untrue...which I'd have told you if you'd asked me at any point today
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    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,446
    BTW my copy of Excel just rounded up 0.5 to 1 when I changed the number of decimal places
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited April 2015
    Scott_P said:

    @NicolaSturgeon: .@simon_telegraph your story is categorically, 100%, untrue...which I'd have told you if you'd asked me at any point today

    Interesting ! Whether it is true or untrue we will never know as only two people were at the meeting. The other person , of course, cannot speak now.

    Unless, Crosby gave the Telegraph journalist a "scoop" and he fell for it !
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    GIN1138 said:

    Speedy said:

    Peter Dominiczak ‏@peterdominiczak 2m2 minutes ago
    Exc: Nicola Sturgeon secretly backs David Cameron http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    And at the same time the Daily Mail has this:
    https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/584088587433541633/photo/1


    Remember the Clegg is Nazi/Communist/Islamist from the 2010 debates?

    Labour's vote driven into the ground further in Scotland by the SNP whilst the English, fearful of the SNP calling the shot's move's to block SNP influence by shifting to the Conservatives.

    That's the plan anyway? :smiley:

    For some reason the Telegraph is doing the opposite, scaring SNP voters to vote Labour.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Just realised I don't even know what ARSE stands for

    In fact had to look at my Spreadsheet to work out BJESUS

    ELBOW - Electoral Leader-Board Of the Week
    ARSE - Assorted Random Selection of Electors
    BJESUS - Big John Election Service Uniform Swing

    ARSE - Anonymous Random Selection of Electors

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    PurseybearPurseybear Posts: 766
    edited April 2015
    MikeL said:

    Per Curtice (BBC):

    Polls say 4 did well - Cam, Mil, Far, Stur
    3 did much less well - Cleg, Ben, Wood

    However, people are inclined to say their own party won. And Cam and Mil both had FAR fewer saying they won than support their parties.

    Thus the winners were Far and Stur.

    That doesn't follow. You'd need to assume the 7m who watched were representative of the 30m who vote GB wide. Betcha 3m of them were ukip and 1m+ were scots.
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    dr_spyn said:
    Which means I'm afraid that she turns out to be a bare faced liar since publicly she has said the opposite.
    But I'm told by reliable sources on here that Miliband won the debate - how can Nicola, the smart clever and definitely believable oh so different SNP leader, possibly say he is not prime ministerial material?

    Perhaps the French translator will be clapped into nthe bbastille?

    5 weeks to go... this is terrible already.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So I am reading that both Cameron and Osborne refused to rule out a deal with UKIP today. We're they not expecting the question or something?
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,899
    Presumably DH will be along shortly to tell us why Wee Jimmy Krankee saying she would prefer a Tory Gov't is a disaster for Ed
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    nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NicolaSturgeon: .@simon_telegraph your story is categorically, 100%, untrue...which I'd have told you if you'd asked me at any point today

    Interesting ! Whether it is true or untrue we will never know as only two people were at the meeting. The other person , of course, cannot speak now.

    Unless, Crosby gave the Telegraph journalist a "scoop" and he fell for it !
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @NicolaSturgeon: .@simon_telegraph your story is categorically, 100%, untrue...which I'd have told you if you'd asked me at any point today

    Interesting ! Whether it is true or untrue we will never know as only two people were at the meeting. The other person , of course, cannot speak now.

    Unless, Crosby gave the Telegraph journalist a "scoop" and he fell for it !
    You don't really get this do you?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited April 2015

    surbiton said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this.
    I don't see that's true. The Tories were pushing Ms Sturgeon as a winner yesterday.

    "Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, and Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said the “astonishing” account of her comments proves that the SNP really wants a Tory Government with few or no MPs in Scotland, allowing the party to push the case for a second independence referendum."

    Labour/LD seem to be behind this. They're the two parties on track to lose seats to the SNP too.
    How did Labour get hold of the memo ? You do know they have not been in government for 5 years !

    The Tories did it, it is clear !
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    NeilVWNeilVW Posts: 725
    Freggles said:

    NeilVW said:

    tyson said:

    And while we are at it Sunil Prasannan, my vegetarian comrade. What does ELBOW stand for?

    Sorry to but in, but Electoral Leader Board of the Week, and EICIPM means Ed Is Crap is PM.

    Can someone explain Basil the squirrel to me, I don't get that one!
    A certain poster whose name escapes me noticed that the PB Tories only wanted to discuss polling when it looked good for them. When a strong poll came out for Labour suddenly the conversation turned to the weather, or whatever. The squirrel reference is to, I think, the film Up where the dogs get distracted every so often by squirrels - e.g. they point at squirrels rather than discuss uncomfortable facts.

    The poster also ridiculed the fact that crossover (tory leads in the polls) was repeatedly predicted but still hasn't consistently emerged. Basil would normally turn up and have to "move the goalposts" to his annoyance.

    Bit sad to follow this stuff but I do find the quirks of this site entertaining
    Thanks Freggles :-)
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Could be a help to the labour party in Scotland the statement by sturgeon to the French ambassador.

    Sturgeon secretly backs the tories won't go down well in Scotland,not a help for the SNP.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Is the 'categorical denial' now a 'clarification'?

    @iainmartin1: "Ambassador….had truncated meeting… FM stating that she wouldn’t want a formal coalition with Lab; that she’d rather see Cam remain as PM"
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    Survation Best PM:

    Cameron 39
    Miliband 23
    Farage 13
    Clegg 6
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Alistair said:

    So I am reading that both Cameron and Osborne refused to rule out a deal with UKIP today. We're they not expecting the question or something?

    The racist fruitcakes would obviously demand a referendum in 2015 !
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    FlightpathFlightpath Posts: 4,012
    Alistair said:

    So I am reading that both Cameron and Osborne refused to rule out a deal with UKIP today. We're they not expecting the question or something?

    Have they refused to rule out a deal with the SNP?
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054
    Saltire said:

    Don't know why the Tories are trying to help the SNP's campaign. The Nationalists are beating Labour like a drum here in Scotland as it is.
    Do they think that they can get some Labour voters to switch to them to keep the nasty Scots out of power at Westminster??

    Absolutely. It's a win/win for the Tories. The more seats the SNP wins the greater the chance of the Tories being the largest party. At the same time the spectre of the Labour government dependent on the support of a party that ultimately wants the UK to cease existing is unlikely to go down well with English voters.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited April 2015
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this.
    I don't see that's true. The Tories were pushing Ms Sturgeon as a winner yesterday.

    "Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, and Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said the “astonishing” account of her comments proves that the SNP really wants a Tory Government with few or no MPs in Scotland, allowing the party to push the case for a second independence referendum."

    Labour/LD seem to be behind this. They're the two parties on track to lose seats to the SNP too.
    How did Labour get hold of the memo ? You do know they have not been in government for 5 years !

    The Tories did it, it is clear !
    The same way the opposition always get them, Civil Servants give them to them. It's called sucking up.

    However, this story has quotes from both Scottish LDs and Labour figures, so perhaps the LDs were the source?

    In 2010 the LDs won 11 Scottish seats, Labour won 41 Scottish seats, the Conservatives won 1.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_2010_(Scotland)
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    Could be a help to the labour party in Scotland the statement by sturgeon to the French ambassador.

    Sturgeon secretly backs the tories won't go down well in Scotland,not a help for the SNP.

    No one would believe it, even if passed down from the heavens themselves, surely. So whatever the truth, it looks like an attack on her, which will be spun as an attack on Scotland, and so on and so forth, the SNP will do well out of it.

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    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,048

    Could be a help to the labour party in Scotland the statement by sturgeon to the French ambassador.

    Sturgeon secretly backs the tories won't go down well in Scotland,not a help for the SNP.

    No one would believe it, even if passed down from the heavens themselves, surely. So whatever the truth, it looks like an attack on her, which will be spun as an attack on Scotland, and so on and so forth, the SNP will do well out of it.

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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,070
    Freggles said:

    NeilVW said:

    tyson said:

    And while we are at it Sunil Prasannan, my vegetarian comrade. What does ELBOW stand for?

    Sorry to but in, but Electoral Leader Board of the Week, and EICIPM means Ed Is Crap is PM.

    Can someone explain Basil the squirrel to me, I don't get that one!
    A certain poster whose name escapes me noticed that the PB Tories only wanted to discuss polling when it looked good for them. When a strong poll came out for Labour suddenly the conversation turned to the weather, or whatever. The squirrel reference is to, I think, the film Up where the dogs get distracted every so often by squirrels - e.g. they point at squirrels rather than discuss uncomfortable facts.

    The poster also ridiculed the fact that crossover (tory leads in the polls) was repeatedly predicted but still hasn't consistently emerged. Basil would normally turn up and have to "move the goalposts" to his annoyance.

    Bit sad to follow this stuff but I do find the quirks of this site entertaining
    I think I started the 'Look: squirrel!' meme, which was aimed initially at Tim. Although someone may have been doing it before me?

    What did I start? :-)

    I've a policy never to discuss individual polls: there's far too much fevered excitement over every single poll that comes out. I can understand it if someone has bet the house on a certain outcome, but otherwise it seems more then a trifle pointless.

    But fun to read. :-)
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Could be a help to the labour party in Scotland the statement by sturgeon to the French ambassador.

    Sturgeon secretly backs the tories won't go down well in Scotland,not a help for the SNP.

    It shortcircuits another Tory argument that vote Tory to exclude the SNP, that will not work very well if the SNP look as if they will go to bed with the Tories.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    In the Tory / UKIP coalition , will Farage become the Foreign Minister or Minister for Europe ?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @iainmartin1: Is the Nat line that it was "lost in translation" (even though it was all in English) or that French diplomats wrong? #auldalliance
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Oh dear, Nicola has been a very, very silly girl.

    Telling the truth in private, especially to a diplomat, is very, very naive.

    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    surbiton said:

    In the Tory / UKIP coalition , will Farage become the Foreign Minister or Minister for Europe ?

    Coalitions have a bad name, it's all about the C&S deals now.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    Neil Henderson ‏@hendopolis 2m2 minutes ago
    SCOTTISH DAILY MAIL: Nicola - I want Tories to win #tomorrowspaperstoday
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I'm tempted to see the Sturgeon scare story in the same light as the various anti-Clegg stories run in the aftermath of the first debate five years ago. The Mail is a pro-Conservative newspaper and it will run stories guaranteed to disadvantage the opponents of the Conservative party (primarily Labour) and with a view to boosting the vote of the Conservative Party.

    Fair enough, it's a free press but view what the Mail prints through that prism and it's easy to see what they are trying to do and the truth.

    The Mail is terrified of the Conservatives losing power and being replaced by a Labour-SNP Government led by Ed Miliband not that I suppose it would lose a single reader if it happened and it would still be the principal "voice of the resistance" but there you go...

    Of course you are equally aware of the pink prism through which to view stories in the Guardian and the Mirror.

    Astonishing that some of the3 Labour trolls on here cannot see that the only party which could benefit from the Sturgeon story being true are Labour.

    However, I think it's entirely plausible that she said Ed M is not PM material. After all the Pope is catholic. :)
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster.

    Seems to be the French so far...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Oh dear, Nicola has been a very, very silly girl.

    Telling the truth in private, especially to a diplomat, is very, very naive.

    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.

    What did she say? I step away from PB for an hour and miss all the fun.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,054
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Carola said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Andrew Neil ‏@afneil 25s26 seconds ago
    Told there's an interesting story about Ms Sturgeon coming up on @Telegraph website 21.30. @Spectator_CH on standby to follow up.

    Not sure what this might be - but just noticed it.

    She doesn't really strike me as the sort of politician likely to create a sensation.

    This I assume? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11514933/Nicola-Sturgeon-secretly-backs-David-Cameron.html

    Obviously,the Tories leaked this.
    I don't see that's true. The Tories were pushing Ms Sturgeon as a winner yesterday.

    "Jim Murphy, the Scottish Labour leader, and Willie Rennie, the Scottish Liberal Democrat leader, said the “astonishing” account of her comments proves that the SNP really wants a Tory Government with few or no MPs in Scotland, allowing the party to push the case for a second independence referendum."

    Labour/LD seem to be behind this. They're the two parties on track to lose seats to the SNP too.
    How did Labour get hold of the memo ? You do know they have not been in government for 5 years !

    The Tories did it, it is clear !
    Think about it. It makes no sense foorthe Tories to do it. I haven't checked the story but the most likely explanation is that it comes from the French. France would surely prefer a Labour government. They have a socialist president and Cameron is determined to embark on a European renegotiation. The French don't want that. Neither do they probably want the UK to fall apart and this could weaken the SNP.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746


    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.

    It looks like a planted story. There's no video. So I imagine voters will dismiss it.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Alistair said:

    So I am reading that both Cameron and Osborne refused to rule out a deal with UKIP today. We're they not expecting the question or something?

    Have they refused to rule out a deal with the SNP?
    From the news tonight, it seems that could be on !
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    RobD said:

    Oh dear, Nicola has been a very, very silly girl.

    Telling the truth in private, especially to a diplomat, is very, very naive.

    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.

    What did she say? I step away from PB for an hour and miss all the fun.
    That she hopes Ed Miliband Will Not Be Prime Minister
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    dr_spyn said:

    Neil Henderson ‏@hendopolis 2m2 minutes ago
    SCOTTISH DAILY MAIL: Nicola - I want Tories to win #tomorrowspaperstoday

    It will surely create doubts about the SNP, however I don't think the press has the same power as did in the last election.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Scott_P said:

    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster.

    Seems to be the French so far...
    Who said something about blaming foreigners for everything? *innocent face*
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Hmm though, would she really have denied it so quickly (and "categorically") if it was true?
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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    surbiton said:

    In the Tory / UKIP coalition , will Farage become the Foreign Minister or Minister for Europe ?

    DFID I hope.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Without doubt, the person doing well in the last week apart from Sturgeon, is Miliband !
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    ArtistArtist Posts: 1,883


    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.

    It looks like a planted story. There's no video. So I imagine voters will dismiss it.

    I was thinking the same, a secret recording of her saying it would have been a killer.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100


    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.

    It looks like a planted story. There's no video. So I imagine voters will dismiss it.

    We need someone who watches STV to find out more about the view from scotland about this.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Speedy said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Neil Henderson ‏@hendopolis 2m2 minutes ago
    SCOTTISH DAILY MAIL: Nicola - I want Tories to win #tomorrowspaperstoday

    It will surely create doubts about the SNP, however I don't think the press has the same power as did in the last election.
    The press follows public opinion, they don't lead it.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited April 2015
    Freggles said:

    RobD said:

    Oh dear, Nicola has been a very, very silly girl.

    Telling the truth in private, especially to a diplomat, is very, very naive.

    Obviously the SNP will go into full damage-limitation mode, and I expect they'll probably be fairly successful in transferring the blame to Labour/the Tories/Westminster. Even so, this is a mega unforced error.

    What did she say? I step away from PB for an hour and miss all the fun.
    That she hopes Ed Miliband Will Not Be Prime Minister
    I hope she used the correct parlance "EMWNBPM". Not sure exactly how to pronounce it though...
This discussion has been closed.