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We should remember Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of World War II

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  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487
    dixiedean said:

    Impressive speech without notes. He must have been rehearsing for days. As to what it all means, we'll have to wait and see

    Years. If not decades.
    Certainly the 80s references could have been made decades ago.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791
    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727
    Natasha Clarke suggesting Reeves, Lammy and Darren Jones are out.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,676

    He’s still moaning about the eighties, de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions Thatcherite’s and Blairites chose to take.

    Easily the stupidest most naive government ever. This is going to be terrible.

    That you think so gives me real hope.
    Heh 😄 That you think de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions our governments chose to make, makes you part of this fraud.

    It’s Johnsonian over promising on steroids. Clocks ticking on this BS.

    Tick Tock.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,004
    Andy_JS said:

    Good on Steve Bray making Burnham look like a tit.

    Burnham actually momentarily stopped his speech.

    He didn't make Burnham look like a tit.
    Some valiant soul is trying to sing the European national anthem at the top of his lungs.

    Much more respectable than lazy Bray and his amp.

    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/2079173607066935772
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984
    We've had donkeys years of folk moaning about the Metropolitan elite and North London liberals.
    Now we get someone who unashamedly isn't, the same folk aren't happy.
    Not like that.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487
    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    A tradesman taking the piss?

    Perish the though.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531
    Andy_JS said:

    From the point of view of the establishment, the main purpose of Burnham is to stop Farage entering No 10. That's more important to them than the particulars of what Burnham actually does in office.

    Why would the Establishment want to stop Farage, one of their own?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531
    So, when will we hear who is going to be CoE?
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820
    Just back from a blissful, internet free week on the Isle of Man. No 5g there at all, 4g ish and wifi in the holiday home that worked when it wanted to*.
    Going to unplug more often, it was great.

    Back online now, and back to the Westminster circus.
    AB is much better at the comms piece, certainly comes across as human/personable. Not a fan of the BlameThatcherForEverything schtick but he's preaching to his leftwing base there.
    I'm interested to see who makes up his cabinet now, and what changes will actually materialise other than just better comms.

    *rarely
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791

    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    A tradesman taking the piss?

    Perish the though.
    Last tradesman I had in, to service the burglar alarm, I had to chase him for the bill !
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984

    Andy_JS said:

    From the point of view of the establishment, the main purpose of Burnham is to stop Farage entering No 10. That's more important to them than the particulars of what Burnham actually does in office.

    Why would the Establishment want to stop Farage, one of their own?
    Indeed. There seems to be a fit of the vapours that power may be flowing away from expensive London clubs.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,434

    I now make a prediction:

    Taxes are going up!

    There doesn't seem to be enough money to run the country, and there hasn't been for some time. So unless Burnham can magically cut costs (which no-one else has been able to do so) then yes the State needs to raise more money
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,882
    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    I nearly cancelled with Sky in 2009 when one of their engineers dumped the foulest waste in Europe since Chernobyl in my lavatory.

    I still have nightmares.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,761
    I quite like Burnham if not sure about his 1970s stuff but he has charisma and I wish him the best as long as he does not put Ed Miliband in as COE
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,939

    I now make a prediction:

    Taxes are going up!

    Great insight. Any thoughts on whether day will follow night?
    My forecasts haven't been that good recently but I am confident on that one.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    So, when will we hear who is going to be CoE?

    The timeline given earlier suggested those getting fired will be informed from 2pm onwards, and the traditional perp walk begins around 4pm.

    That should be one of the first.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,218
    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Mason informs us that Burnham will "dispense with the suit and tie whenever possible". (Those might not have been the exact words but it was something very similar).

    How radical and edgy.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531

    He’s still moaning about the eighties, de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions Thatcherite’s and Blairites chose to take.

    Easily the stupidest most naive government ever. This is going to be terrible.

    That you think so gives me real hope.
    Heh 😄 That you think de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions our governments chose to make, makes you part of this fraud.

    It’s Johnsonian over promising on steroids. Clocks ticking on this BS.

    Tick Tock.
    You have no idea what I think.

    I will help you on one point though, I think you are very misguided on just about every topic you venture to post on.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302
    Betfair has opened its Next PM after Andy Burnham market.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.260220964


  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,434
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...

    By sun down we will have a cabinet of horrors, the useless, the felons, and downright stupid.

    It’s off to an awful start with all this Nationalisation Of Water Companies nonsense.
    The Water Companies in question have bankrupted themselves. Keeping on proving them up as zombies is a stupid farce.

    Too Big To Fail is always a disaster. We need more bankruptcies in this country, not less.
    WTF? And what happens then? Company supplies fresh water. No company supplying fresh water, no fresh water?

    It’s the exact opposite of what you said, it’s a problem now because Starmer’s government dithered, and didn’t bail out Thames water - despite Victoria constantly telling them what to urgently do.

    Bottom line what WOTN and Useless Lucy is talking about here on failing water companies, is finding nearly £50B of taxpayers money just to Nationalise Thames Water alone. We know this as fact because these costs are in the media everyday now - to honour creditors is about £20B, and continuing with the needed investment in engineering in the coming years is another £20B, and the emergency bit of legislation that does actually allow government to step in and manage a failing utility means accepting cover cash shortfalls maintaining clean running water services, and this often adds up £8B for about 3 years.

    There’s three public listed and 12 privately owned English water companies in total, to nationalise all will cost about £200B. Where’s the money? Politics is not all about ideas, it’s about money. Got idea - can’t afford it - it doesn’t happen. Labour don’t have a spare fifty billion in order to use tax payer to take over Thames Water, so why doesn’t it just shut up, is my advice.

    And this is why it’s abysmal politics. They don’t have even mere slither of £200B so they can’t deliver what they are hinting and promising they will do - so just like Sunak shredded himself and the Conservative standing at a “stop the boats” lectern for 2 years, and not stopping the boats, Burnham will do exactly the same putting out there all these “I’m going to do something about these water company” vibes. Because they will have to do something, and that something will be a massive let down now on all the hope and promise built up - equivalent in huge drop in polls. To do politics properly, what you’re not going to deliver what you are failing on, don’t do your opponents work advertising how crap you are. Don’t ever over promise on this scale.

    And, not to forget how they get shredded by the court cases, trying to get out of paying investors and creditors what they are owed when nationalising - the tax payer gets hammered in the court defeats thanks to Labour. Labour won’t manage 120 MPs at the next General Election at this rate of rank political stupidity. It’s obvious already it’s going to be the most stupid useless government.
    Sigh.

    Bankruptcy doesn’t mean the company going out of business. There is actually provision for this.

    The ones that are collapsing, such as Thames Water, have taken on vast debt, which they are struggling to finance.

    They go bankrupt, the business continues in receivership, while the bond holders and shareholders lose their shirts.

    Without the tidal wave of debt, Thames Water would be highly profitable business.

    Hell, without the debt, they could cut bills and invest massively at the same time.

    The one bit that will probably be fucked up, is the government guaranteeing the suppliers bills, during the receivership, to prevent supply chain contagion.
    Thames Water lenders preparing legal challenge in event of Burnham nationalisation
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx278ed09nzo
    Don’t nationalise it, wait for it to go bust and supervise the sale with the administrators.

    Tough sh!t for bondholders and shareholders, they took a risk and it didn’t work out.
    If the government doesn’t keep stepping in, they are toast.

    The comic version of the lawsuit is to claim the government has a duty to prop them up, if they go bust. They don’t.

    A legal challenge is inevitable, in all cases except the government backing Thames Water. Forever.
    It's will be interesting to see how it pans out, though.

    Like everything else, there will be an element of negotiation in it, but here the government has by far the strongest hand, as long as they play it both forcefully and carefully. Shareholders ghouls politely be shown the door; bondholders to take a chunky haircut.

    What would be unconscionable would be for the existing shareholders to retain ownership of assets which are effectively being refinanced by the bill payers.
    One possible solution (which would fit with Burnham's cooperative principles) might be restructuring it under the mutual ownership of its customers, to recognise that reality.
    {sigh}

    “Tough sh!t for bondholders and shareholders, they took a risk and it didn’t work out.”

    “Shareholders ghouls politely be shown the door; bondholders to take a chunky haircut”

    “while the bond holders and shareholders lose their shirts.”

    So you can’t do it without private investment? That’s how we treat it? That’s the pitch for people investing?
    Err yeah, that’s how investments work.

    The value of your shares can do down as well as up. Especially if you take a huge dividend while loading the company with debt it can no longer afford to service.
    Especially as a monopoly provider of a necessary utility should be about the lowest risk you can get.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,004
    I guess we'll now never find out what it was that he did in government.

    Prisons minister (Lord) James Timpson is first resignation from govt as Andy Burnham's team takes over. The rehabilitation expert was brought in by Keir Starmer in 2024
    https://x.com/PippaCrerar/status/2079142438715691278
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,999

    I quite like Burnham if not sure about his 1970s stuff but he has charisma and I wish him the best as long as he does not put Ed Miliband in as COE


    His first two policy changes about North Sea oil and digital id are fine . Just needs to announce the other easy one of not gifting the chagos islands
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,163
    Andy_JS said:

    From the point of view of the establishment, the main purpose of Burnham is to stop Farage entering No 10. That's more important to them than the particulars of what Burnham actually does in office.

    What’s not to like? Do we want bigotry and facism to rule the roost?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,989
    kinabalu said:

    Let's see etc but he did that well imo. He has the knack of appearing like a normal bloke speaking from the heart.

    A normal bloke speaking from the heart might not a great Prime Minister make...

    A bit of cerebral might not go amiss.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,416
    All this means the Battle for the North could become the most important battle of the next year at least – and Farage’s biggest to date. He may well lose it.

    James Frayne
    Burnham’s authentic Northern strategy could utterly destroy Farage’s chances of power
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/20/burnham-authentic-northern-strategy-could-destroy-farage/
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791

    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    I nearly cancelled with Sky in 2009 when one of their engineers dumped the foulest waste in Europe since Chernobyl in my lavatory.

    I still have nightmares.
    🤮🤮🤮🤮

    Thankfully it was just a slash.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311
    Taz said:

    Good on Steve Bray making Burnham look like a tit.

    What’s Bray done ?

    I’ve been dipping in and out of it.
    It's getting to the point where I'd favour primary legislation to ban Steve Bray.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531
    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    You trust him with your boiler but not to be able to use a toilet like a civilised human being?

    (Btw, I hope you offered him a tea of coffee.)
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791

    Natasha Clarke suggesting Reeves, Lammy and Darren Jones are out.

    Pity about Darren Jones, like @Brixian59, I think he’s pretty capable.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,661
    edited July 20

    I now make a prediction:

    Taxes are going up!

    There doesn't seem to be enough money to run the country, and there hasn't been for some time. So unless Burnham can magically cut costs (which no-one else has been able to do so) then yes the State needs to raise more money
    Rishi and Hunt cut employee NI BY 4% that was £9.6bn in tax removed

    As I’ve said before if that had been reversed the Government wouldn’t be in the mess it’s in
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820

    All this means the Battle for the North could become the most important battle of the next year at least – and Farage’s biggest to date. He may well lose it.

    James Frayne
    Burnham’s authentic Northern strategy could utterly destroy Farage’s chances of power
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/20/burnham-authentic-northern-strategy-could-destroy-farage/

    We can but hope.
    If AB is indeed seeking to be more collegiate, and tacks to the centre, could that also boost KB's Tories too if she plays this right?
    Effectively squeezing the extreme wings, left an right, with Normal Politics (tm)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611
    Sweeney74 said:

    Just back from a blissful, internet free week on the Isle of Man. No 5g there at all, 4g ish and wifi in the holiday home that worked when it wanted to*.
    Going to unplug more often, it was great.

    Back online now, and back to the Westminster circus.
    AB is much better at the comms piece, certainly comes across as human/personable. Not a fan of the BlameThatcherForEverything schtick but he's preaching to his leftwing base there.
    I'm interested to see who makes up his cabinet now, and what changes will actually materialise other than just better comms.

    *rarely

    The new Starlink Mini 2 has a built-in battery, you can now have internet pretty much anywhere in the world that can see the sky.

    https://x.com/olegkutkov/status/2078989908501582281
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,676

    He’s still moaning about the eighties, de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions Thatcherite’s and Blairites chose to take.

    Easily the stupidest most naive government ever. This is going to be terrible.

    That you think so gives me real hope.
    Heh 😄 That you think de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions our governments chose to make, makes you part of this fraud.

    It’s Johnsonian over promising on steroids. Clocks ticking on this BS.

    Tick Tock.
    You have no idea what I think.

    I will help you on one point though, I think you are very misguided on just about every topic you venture to post on.
    That you think so gives me real hope. ☺️
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487
    edited July 20
    eek said:

    I now make a prediction:

    Taxes are going up!

    There doesn't seem to be enough money to run the country, and there hasn't been for some time. So unless Burnham can magically cut costs (which no-one else has been able to do so) then yes the State needs to raise more money
    Rishi and Hunt cut employee NI BY 4% that was £9.6bn in tax removed
    Which as we've discussed ad nauseum was part of a package that was a net tax increase.

    If the government reversed that we'd be in a bigger mess.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,416

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    Surely there's a disturbance of the King's peace type thing he can done on?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531

    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    I nearly cancelled with Sky in 2009 when one of their engineers dumped the foulest waste in Europe since Chernobyl in my lavatory.

    I still have nightmares.
    Thoughts are with you TSE - a brush with the working classes must have been extremely taxing for you.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,846

    Taz said:

    “Stronger public control’ not ownership 🤔

    Yes. I noticed that too.
    A move towards the French system. Large amounts of stuff provided by private companiies but with very strict Government limits/controls on service, quality and profits. It is something I have been advocating for the NHS for years. We have had the two extremes being advocated for too long - either Nationalisaation or laisse faire privatisation. Neither is the way to go.

    I am afraid of Burnham on a personal level as I think he could end up causing me a lot of grief and costing me a lot of money with his policies and in the end I am old and just don't like change. But if he genuinely sticks to his announcements on ID cards, drilling and a new way of dealing with utilities (at least as a start) then I would give him a cautious welcome.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,434

    I quite like Burnham if not sure about his 1970s stuff but he has charisma and I wish him the best as long as he does not put Ed Miliband in as COE

    That's going to be Andy's problem. Nothing personal, it's the nature of the job.

    Making Ed Chancellor will upset one slice of opinion.

    Giving Shabana the job will upset another.

    The same dynamic will be there several times a day, every day. Makes you wonder why anyone sane wants the job.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820
    Sandpit said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Just back from a blissful, internet free week on the Isle of Man. No 5g there at all, 4g ish and wifi in the holiday home that worked when it wanted to*.
    Going to unplug more often, it was great.

    Back online now, and back to the Westminster circus.
    AB is much better at the comms piece, certainly comes across as human/personable. Not a fan of the BlameThatcherForEverything schtick but he's preaching to his leftwing base there.
    I'm interested to see who makes up his cabinet now, and what changes will actually materialise other than just better comms.

    *rarely

    The new Starlink Mini 2 has a built-in battery, you can now have internet pretty much anywhere in the world that can see the sky.

    https://x.com/olegkutkov/status/2078989908501582281
    Yeah,

    But switching off was great too...
    Going for long walks, practicing Archery in the garden, painting Warhammer with my son, swimming in the sea with my daughter, wine with card games on the patio.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,846

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531

    He’s still moaning about the eighties, de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions Thatcherite’s and Blairites chose to take.

    Easily the stupidest most naive government ever. This is going to be terrible.

    That you think so gives me real hope.
    Heh 😄 That you think de-industrialisation globalisation automation were decisions our governments chose to make, makes you part of this fraud.

    It’s Johnsonian over promising on steroids. Clocks ticking on this BS.

    Tick Tock.
    You have no idea what I think.

    I will help you on one point though, I think you are very misguided on just about every topic you venture to post on.
    That you think so gives me real hope. ☺️
    Excellent phrase, wherever did you get that from? ;-)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727
    edited July 20

    kinabalu said:

    Let's see etc but he did that well imo. He has the knack of appearing like a normal bloke speaking from the heart.

    A normal bloke speaking from the heart might not a great Prime Minister make...

    A bit of cerebral might not go amiss.
    I know. He was first rejected from Cambridge because he couldn't see the similarity between the Canterbury Tales and a package holiday. Isn't that the definition of thick?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791

    eek said:

    I now make a prediction:

    Taxes are going up!

    There doesn't seem to be enough money to run the country, and there hasn't been for some time. So unless Burnham can magically cut costs (which no-one else has been able to do so) then yes the State needs to raise more money
    Rishi and Hunt cut employee NI BY 4% that was £9.6bn in tax removed
    Which as we've discussed ad nauseum was part of a package that was a net tax increase.

    If the government reversed that we'd be in a bigger mess.
    Indeed. They were moving from taxing work to income. They left the tax free allowance unchanged so only workers benefitted.

    I’m not saying that alone netted it off, other measures too, but I think it was a welcome step from them.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    The problem is that they made a right old hash of the last prosecution the brought against him
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791

    Taz said:

    “Stronger public control’ not ownership 🤔

    Yes. I noticed that too.
    A move towards the French system. Large amounts of stuff provided by private companiies but with very strict Government limits/controls on service, quality and profits. It is something I have been advocating for the NHS for years. We have had the two extremes being advocated for too long - either Nationalisaation or laisse faire privatisation. Neither is the way to go.

    I am afraid of Burnham on a personal level as I think he could end up causing me a lot of grief and costing me a lot of money with his policies and in the end I am old and just don't like change. But if he genuinely sticks to his announcements on ID cards, drilling and a new way of dealing with utilities (at least as a start) then I would give him a cautious welcome.
    Our problem seems to be, as we are halfway towards the French model, our regulation is just wholly inadequate.

    We have nationalised utilities but the regulation seems to be lacking.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    I quite like Burnham if not sure about his 1970s stuff but he has charisma and I wish him the best as long as he does not put Ed Miliband in as COE

    That's going to be Andy's problem. Nothing personal, it's the nature of the job.

    Making Ed Chancellor will upset one slice of opinion.

    Giving Shabana the job will upset another.

    The same dynamic will be there several times a day, every day. Makes you wonder why anyone sane wants the job.
    Because they want to do something with the power, even if they upset some people along the way.

    That is why Starmer failed so abysmally, he had no drive to actually do anything.

    His self-defined "legacy" of 2 years in Downing Street was getting there and winning power. Now anything he actually did while there. That sums him up completely, a grey failure who got into office but then was utterly clueless as to what to do once there.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611
    Sweeney74 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Just back from a blissful, internet free week on the Isle of Man. No 5g there at all, 4g ish and wifi in the holiday home that worked when it wanted to*.
    Going to unplug more often, it was great.

    Back online now, and back to the Westminster circus.
    AB is much better at the comms piece, certainly comes across as human/personable. Not a fan of the BlameThatcherForEverything schtick but he's preaching to his leftwing base there.
    I'm interested to see who makes up his cabinet now, and what changes will actually materialise other than just better comms.

    *rarely

    The new Starlink Mini 2 has a built-in battery, you can now have internet pretty much anywhere in the world that can see the sky.

    https://x.com/olegkutkov/status/2078989908501582281
    Yeah,

    But switching off was great too...
    Going for long walks, practicing Archery in the garden, painting Warhammer with my son, swimming in the sea with my daughter, wine with card games on the patio.
    The best holiday I had in recent years was where I was totally switched off for a week. It doesn’t happen often enough.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,955

    A 10 year plan with a general election due in three years.

    I wish Burnham well but his wish list of lovely things will likely be in the bin by this time next year. There's way too much trouble in the world right now to have the plain sailing required to deliver what he wants.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Mason informs us that Burnham will "dispense with the suit and tie whenever possible". (Those might not have been the exact words but it was something very similar).

    How radical and edgy.
    It's keeping up with the times.
    I imagine pearls were clutched when the first PM without a top hat appeared.
    Suits are on the way out.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,728
    @annmarie

    Houthis say they will impose a maritime blockade on Saudi Arabia in retaliation for what they say is the kingdom’s siege on the Yemeni capital, according to the group’s spokesperson Yahya Saree.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,846

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    IN which case I am not sure they could or should do anything about it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...

    By sun down we will have a cabinet of horrors, the useless, the felons, and downright stupid.

    It’s off to an awful start with all this Nationalisation Of Water Companies nonsense.
    The Water Companies in question have bankrupted themselves. Keeping on proving them up as zombies is a stupid farce.

    Too Big To Fail is always a disaster. We need more bankruptcies in this country, not less.
    WTF? And what happens then? Company supplies fresh water. No company supplying fresh water, no fresh water?

    It’s the exact opposite of what you said, it’s a problem now because Starmer’s government dithered, and didn’t bail out Thames water - despite Victoria constantly telling them what to urgently do.

    Bottom line what WOTN and Useless Lucy is talking about here on failing water companies, is finding nearly £50B of taxpayers money just to Nationalise Thames Water alone. We know this as fact because these costs are in the media everyday now - to honour creditors is about £20B, and continuing with the needed investment in engineering in the coming years is another £20B, and the emergency bit of legislation that does actually allow government to step in and manage a failing utility means accepting cover cash shortfalls maintaining clean running water services, and this often adds up £8B for about 3 years.

    There’s three public listed and 12 privately owned English water companies in total, to nationalise all will cost about £200B. Where’s the money? Politics is not all about ideas, it’s about money. Got idea - can’t afford it - it doesn’t happen. Labour don’t have a spare fifty billion in order to use tax payer to take over Thames Water, so why doesn’t it just shut up, is my advice.

    And this is why it’s abysmal politics. They don’t have even mere slither of £200B so they can’t deliver what they are hinting and promising they will do - so just like Sunak shredded himself and the Conservative standing at a “stop the boats” lectern for 2 years, and not stopping the boats, Burnham will do exactly the same putting out there all these “I’m going to do something about these water company” vibes. Because they will have to do something, and that something will be a massive let down now on all the hope and promise built up - equivalent in huge drop in polls. To do politics properly, what you’re not going to deliver what you are failing on, don’t do your opponents work advertising how crap you are. Don’t ever over promise on this scale.

    And, not to forget how they get shredded by the court cases, trying to get out of paying investors and creditors what they are owed when nationalising - the tax payer gets hammered in the court defeats thanks to Labour. Labour won’t manage 120 MPs at the next General Election at this rate of rank political stupidity. It’s obvious already it’s going to be the most stupid useless government.
    Sigh.

    Bankruptcy doesn’t mean the company going out of business. There is actually provision for this.

    The ones that are collapsing, such as Thames Water, have taken on vast debt, which they are struggling to finance.

    They go bankrupt, the business continues in receivership, while the bond holders and shareholders lose their shirts.

    Without the tidal wave of debt, Thames Water would be highly profitable business.

    Hell, without the debt, they could cut bills and invest massively at the same time.

    The one bit that will probably be fucked up, is the government guaranteeing the suppliers bills, during the receivership, to prevent supply chain contagion.
    Thames Water lenders preparing legal challenge in event of Burnham nationalisation
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx278ed09nzo
    Don’t nationalise it, wait for it to go bust and supervise the sale with the administrators.

    Tough sh!t for bondholders and shareholders, they took a risk and it didn’t work out.
    If the government doesn’t keep stepping in, they are toast.

    The comic version of the lawsuit is to claim the government has a duty to prop them up, if they go bust. They don’t.

    A legal challenge is inevitable, in all cases except the government backing Thames Water. Forever.
    It's will be interesting to see how it pans out, though.

    Like everything else, there will be an element of negotiation in it, but here the government has by far the strongest hand, as long as they play it both forcefully and carefully. Shareholders ghouls politely be shown the door; bondholders to take a chunky haircut.

    What would be unconscionable would be for the existing shareholders to retain ownership of assets which are effectively being refinanced by the bill payers.
    One possible solution (which would fit with Burnham's cooperative principles) might be restructuring it under the mutual ownership of its customers, to recognise that reality.
    {sigh}

    “Tough sh!t for bondholders and shareholders, they took a risk and it didn’t work out.”

    “Shareholders ghouls politely be shown the door; bondholders to take a chunky haircut”

    “while the bond holders and shareholders lose their shirts.”

    So you can’t do it without private investment? That’s how we treat it? That’s the pitch for people investing?
    In investing, you ac always lose yt=our shirt.

    Despite what some pricing algorithms say, there is no risk-free rate of return.

    There are many, many examples of companies that emerged from bankruptcy, with their excess baggage of debt removed, that have gone onto great success.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,882

    Taz said:

    Tradesman servicing the boiler has just asked to use my loo

    I cannot say no.

    I hope he’s not taking a dump !!

    😳

    I nearly cancelled with Sky in 2009 when one of their engineers dumped the foulest waste in Europe since Chernobyl in my lavatory.

    I still have nightmares.
    Thoughts are with you TSE - a brush with the working classes must have been extremely taxing for you.
    I regularly deal with the working classes, in fact I married one.

    I am tribunis plebis.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,247

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    In our uncodified constitution berks are certainly a requirement.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 2,039

    I now make a prediction:

    Taxes are going up!

    There doesn't seem to be enough money to run the country, and there hasn't been for some time. So unless Burnham can magically cut costs (which no-one else has been able to do so) then yes the State needs to raise more money
    There is more than enough money to run the country.
    The problem is that successive governments, particularly Blair onwards have piled waste on waste.
    We need to move away from a culture of handouts to everyone and away from a culture where the government manages everything.

    The elephant in the room is that every year that we continue to rack up debt at an astonishing rate, the debt interest payments get bigger and bigger, and this is completely unsustainable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611
    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    The problem is that they made a right old hash of the last prosecution the brought against him
    Didn’t the guy sponsoring him stump up for a £XXXX an hour barrister, to turn up to the local magistrates’ court and pick apart the local regulations?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487
    dixiedean said:

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Mason informs us that Burnham will "dispense with the suit and tie whenever possible". (Those might not have been the exact words but it was something very similar).

    How radical and edgy.
    It's keeping up with the times.
    I imagine pearls were clutched when the first PM without a top hat appeared.
    Suits are on the way out.
    It seems secondary schools will be the last place to get the memo.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    Steve Bray certainly fits that bill. A man whose surname is entirely appropriate unlike Clare Balding who has a fine head of hair.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    IN which case I am not sure they could or should do anything about it.
    Indeed, there is no law against being a crashing bore
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,846
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    “Stronger public control’ not ownership 🤔

    Yes. I noticed that too.
    A move towards the French system. Large amounts of stuff provided by private companiies but with very strict Government limits/controls on service, quality and profits. It is something I have been advocating for the NHS for years. We have had the two extremes being advocated for too long - either Nationalisaation or laisse faire privatisation. Neither is the way to go.

    I am afraid of Burnham on a personal level as I think he could end up causing me a lot of grief and costing me a lot of money with his policies and in the end I am old and just don't like change. But if he genuinely sticks to his announcements on ID cards, drilling and a new way of dealing with utilities (at least as a start) then I would give him a cautious welcome.
    Our problem seems to be, as we are halfway towards the French model, our regulation is just wholly inadequate.

    We have nationalised utilities but the regulation seems to be lacking.
    We simply don't have the understanding of how these things can and should be done. And we bounce back and forth between privatisation and nationalisation with each side looking for the purist answer.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311
    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    The problem is that they made a right old hash of the last prosecution the brought against him
    Burnham even favours rejoining the EU, which is what Bray claims to be protesting loudly about.

    It should be clear to everyone now he's just a total nutcase, who's estranged everyone he's ever associated with, and should be handled accordingly.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,989
    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    The problem is that they made a right old hash of the last prosecution the brought against him
    Er...lessons have been learnt?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984

    All this means the Battle for the North could become the most important battle of the next year at least – and Farage’s biggest to date. He may well lose it.

    James Frayne
    Burnham’s authentic Northern strategy could utterly destroy Farage’s chances of power
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/20/burnham-authentic-northern-strategy-could-destroy-farage/

    As happened in Makerfield.
    Mauve trousers aren't the look in Hindley Green.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496
    Taz said:

    Burnham's. Delivery. Has. A strange. Cadence
    My wife observes.

    Ending rough sleeping. It was done during Covid, it is good to see there is a commitment to do it again.

    "We will do better." He said.
    I think I would have preferred an emphasis on turning around the country being a collective effort that required the involvement of everyone. "We're all in it together," was one of the best political soundbites of our generation.

    Like the greatest living Canadian, William Shatner, every word is its own sentence ?
    The rough sleeping problem, isn't the sleeping outdoors bit. That's the *outcome*.

    Herding them all into accomodation rapidly broke down, during COVID, because of the personal issues of the rough sleepers. Which is why they are rough sleeping in the first place.

    Homelessness != Rough Sleeping, as well.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,606

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,989
    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Mason informs us that Burnham will "dispense with the suit and tie whenever possible". (Those might not have been the exact words but it was something very similar).

    How radical and edgy.
    Embrace the kaftan, Andy!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,574

    kinabalu said:

    Let's see etc but he did that well imo. He has the knack of appearing like a normal bloke speaking from the heart.

    A normal bloke speaking from the heart might not a great Prime Minister make...

    A bit of cerebral might not go amiss.
    'appearing like'
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820
    Sandpit said:

    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    The problem is that they made a right old hash of the last prosecution the brought against him
    Didn’t the guy sponsoring him stump up for a £XXXX an hour barrister, to turn up to the local magistrates’ court and pick apart the local regulations?
    that was certainly the rumour...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    Taz said:

    Burnham's. Delivery. Has. A strange. Cadence
    My wife observes.

    Ending rough sleeping. It was done during Covid, it is good to see there is a commitment to do it again.

    "We will do better." He said.
    I think I would have preferred an emphasis on turning around the country being a collective effort that required the involvement of everyone. "We're all in it together," was one of the best political soundbites of our generation.

    Like the greatest living Canadian, William Shatner, every word is its own sentence ?
    The rough sleeping problem, isn't the sleeping outdoors bit. That's the *outcome*.

    Herding them all into accomodation rapidly broke down, during COVID, because of the personal issues of the rough sleepers. Which is why they are rough sleeping in the first place.

    Homelessness != Rough Sleeping, as well.
    It’s mostly a drink and drugs and mental health problem, and needs to be approached from that end rather than the “housing” end.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,162

    Taz said:

    Burnham's. Delivery. Has. A strange. Cadence
    My wife observes.

    Ending rough sleeping. It was done during Covid, it is good to see there is a commitment to do it again.

    "We will do better." He said.
    I think I would have preferred an emphasis on turning around the country being a collective effort that required the involvement of everyone. "We're all in it together," was one of the best political soundbites of our generation.

    Like the greatest living Canadian, William Shatner, every word is its own sentence ?
    The rough sleeping problem, isn't the sleeping outdoors bit. That's the *outcome*.

    Herding them all into accomodation rapidly broke down, during COVID, because of the personal issues of the rough sleepers. Which is why they are rough sleeping in the first place.

    Homelessness != Rough Sleeping, as well.
    Quite. You can round rough sleepers up and lock them in an institution. Does that solve the problem?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,247
    A suit and tie isn't the be all and end all of course. Boris has competition.



    https://x.com/20rcmatheus/status/2078963156810874996?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,574

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    I assumed it was the man himself - Bray.

    Bray unplugged. Bray doing the opposite of Dylan at the Newport folk festival.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311
    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820

    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    The problem is that they made a right old hash of the last prosecution the brought against him
    Er...lessons have been learnt?
    Lessons are never learned. Only taught.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Let's see etc but he did that well imo. He has the knack of appearing like a normal bloke speaking from the heart.

    A normal bloke speaking from the heart might not a great Prime Minister make...

    A bit of cerebral might not go amiss.
    'appearing like'
    If you are all looking for "cerebral" try this chap out for size.

    https://youtu.be/hv-sOc2a36Y?is=6-6VJkOeX9PGD0rL
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,627
    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Mason informs us that Burnham will "dispense with the suit and tie whenever possible". (Those might not have been the exact words but it was something very similar).

    Proverbial middle finger to TSE :lol:
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984

    dixiedean said:

    boulay said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Chris Mason informs us that Burnham will "dispense with the suit and tie whenever possible". (Those might not have been the exact words but it was something very similar).

    How radical and edgy.
    It's keeping up with the times.
    I imagine pearls were clutched when the first PM without a top hat appeared.
    Suits are on the way out.
    It seems secondary schools will be the last place to get the memo.
    Along with the Aircon.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496

    Taz said:

    Burnham's. Delivery. Has. A strange. Cadence
    My wife observes.

    Ending rough sleeping. It was done during Covid, it is good to see there is a commitment to do it again.

    "We will do better." He said.
    I think I would have preferred an emphasis on turning around the country being a collective effort that required the involvement of everyone. "We're all in it together," was one of the best political soundbites of our generation.

    Like the greatest living Canadian, William Shatner, every word is its own sentence ?
    The rough sleeping problem, isn't the sleeping outdoors bit. That's the *outcome*.

    Herding them all into accomodation rapidly broke down, during COVID, because of the personal issues of the rough sleepers. Which is why they are rough sleeping in the first place.

    Homelessness != Rough Sleeping, as well.
    Quite. You can round rough sleepers up and lock them in an institution. Does that solve the problem?
    That's pretty much what we used to do. And the initiations were so horrific that people all over the political spectrum fought to end them.

    In addition, modern law doesn't allow you to lock people up for making the place look a bit untidy. And doctors will not drug people up to the eyeballs, just to make them manageable, as they used to.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,989
    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    IN which case I am not sure they could or should do anything about it.
    Indeed, there is no law against being a crashing bore
    If there was - could we get Farage convicted?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,606
    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    IN which case I am not sure they could or should do anything about it.
    Indeed, there is no law against being a crashing bore
    For which I am truly grateful.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Yes.

    We only need to mess around with FIFA once every four years.

    Rest of the time we have the greatest league in the world and UEFA (which has its own issues) etc to concern ourselves with.

    FIFA is a pisstake but we know that. We should focus on winning the Euros now.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,627
    dixiedean said:

    All this means the Battle for the North could become the most important battle of the next year at least – and Farage’s biggest to date. He may well lose it.

    James Frayne
    Burnham’s authentic Northern strategy could utterly destroy Farage’s chances of power
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/07/20/burnham-authentic-northern-strategy-could-destroy-farage/

    As happened in Makerfield.
    Mauve trousers aren't the look in Hindley Green.
    Labour 55%
    Reform 37%

    :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,627

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Yes.

    We only need to mess around with FIFA once every four years.

    Rest of the time we have the greatest league in the world and UEFA (which has its own issues) etc to concern ourselves with.

    FIFA is a pisstake but we know that. We should focus on winning the Euros now.
    Every two years-ish.

    The qualifiers for WC30 will be in just over 2 years' time.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,247

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Who is going to carry out this complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour, Dixon of Dock Green or Crockett & Tubbs?
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820

    Sweeney74 said:

    Is some berk playing Ode to Joy a constitutional requirement since Magna Carta?

    I'm baffled as to how the authorities can't control him.

    Just arrest the twat.
    I thought they had said they would not allow electronic amplification?
    It didn't sound like it was amplified, just someone with a loud voice.
    IN which case I am not sure they could or should do anything about it.
    Indeed, there is no law against being a crashing bore
    If there was - could we get Farage convicted?
    Does he have any convictions?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Yes.

    We only need to mess around with FIFA once every four years.

    Rest of the time we have the greatest league in the world and UEFA (which has its own issues) etc to concern ourselves with.

    FIFA is a pisstake but we know that. We should focus on winning the Euros now.
    I don't like turning a blind eye to injustice, bribery or corruption.

    FIFA are not Gods, and there needs to be a reckoning.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,606

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    I think we should try and find an alternative to FIFA. It may take 20-30 years for any replacement to become as corrupt.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Who is going to carry out this complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour, Dixon of Dock Green or Crockett & Tubbs?
    Trump's DOJ?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,606
    Scott_xP said:

    @annmarie

    Houthis say they will impose a maritime blockade on Saudi Arabia in retaliation for what they say is the kingdom’s siege on the Yemeni capital, according to the group’s spokesperson Yahya Saree.

    The all too foreseeable consequences of Trump's idiocy just get better and better.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,162

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Yes.

    We only need to mess around with FIFA once every four years.

    Rest of the time we have the greatest league in the world and UEFA (which has its own issues) etc to concern ourselves with.

    FIFA is a pisstake but we know that. We should focus on winning the Euros now.
    I don't like turning a blind eye to injustice, bribery or corruption.

    FIFA are not Gods, and there needs to be a reckoning.
    It is like the UN. I don't think we are going to fix that either, but it isn't going away any time soon.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487
    LOL one for @dixiedean - two G7 leaders now are supporters of Everton FC (Carney and Burnham).

    Wonder when that has happened before?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496

    DavidL said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Genuine LOL. Of course there does....
    Do you think we should just turn the other cheek?
    Who is going to carry out this complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour, Dixon of Dock Green or Crockett & Tubbs?
    Trump's DOJ?
    It wouldn't be terribly hard, probably, to get evidence of FIFIA breaking laws on bribery etc. And since this usually has an international dimension, finding something that the UK has jurisdiction over.

    The reason that this hasn't happened is that if the UK Government issued warrants for the arrest of senior FIFA personnel, there would be a shitstorm in football.
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 820

    LOL one for @dixiedean - two G7 leaders now are supporters of Everton FC (Carney and Burnham).

    Wonder when that has happened before?

    Supporting Everton is excellent preparation for geopolitics. Endless crises, occasional false dawns, and somehow you keep turning up.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,749
    Burnham's high-profile pledge to end rough sleeping is interesting, as it's not a pledge that is an obvious vote winner - i.e. it's not on most people's list of priorities.

    It rather suggests that a 'moral mission' will be part of Burnham's agenda - doing what's right, not just what's most popular.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984
    Sweeney74 said:

    LOL one for @dixiedean - two G7 leaders now are supporters of Everton FC (Carney and Burnham).

    Wonder when that has happened before?

    Supporting Everton is excellent preparation for geopolitics. Endless crises, occasional false dawns, and somehow you keep turning up.
    A deafening airraid siren goes off before you appear, too.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,051

    Taz said:

    Burnham's. Delivery. Has. A strange. Cadence
    My wife observes.

    Ending rough sleeping. It was done during Covid, it is good to see there is a commitment to do it again.

    "We will do better." He said.
    I think I would have preferred an emphasis on turning around the country being a collective effort that required the involvement of everyone. "We're all in it together," was one of the best political soundbites of our generation.

    Like the greatest living Canadian, William Shatner, every word is its own sentence ?
    The rough sleeping problem, isn't the sleeping outdoors bit. That's the *outcome*.

    Herding them all into accomodation rapidly broke down, during COVID, because of the personal issues of the rough sleepers. Which is why they are rough sleeping in the first place.

    Homelessness != Rough Sleeping, as well.
    It's part of the problem - the visible part. Almost no-one wants to be sleeping rough. There is a big difference in outcomes between let's get rid of rough sleeping and let's not bother particularly, which is current policy.

    This is a universal problem and there's plenty of good practice to follow, including in the UK, that delivers those better outcomes.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,984

    Burnham's high-profile pledge to end rough sleeping is interesting, as it's not a pledge that is an obvious vote winner - i.e. it's not on most people's list of priorities.

    It rather suggests that a 'moral mission' will be part of Burnham's agenda - doing what's right, not just what's most popular.

    Don't underestimate the influence of Catholicism on him.
    It runs deep in the NW Labour Party. And in Burnham.
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