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We should remember Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of World War II

SystemSystem Posts: 13,261
edited July 20 in General
We should remember Starmer is the greatest Leader of the Opposition since the end of World War II – politicalbetting.com

We shouldn’t forget the awful position Jeremy Corbyn bequeathed Sir Keir Starmer after the 2019 general election where Labour won just 202 seats in one of their worst performances since the end of WWII.

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531
    First, like Spain
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,791
    There the greatness ends.

    He’s been a pitifully poor pathetic PM.

    He’s continuity Sunak but without the charisma Rishi has.

    He was holed below the waterline the moment his backbenchers rebelled on slowing the rapid rate of growth of benefits and WFA.

    Still. We’ve got David Brent in charge now.

    Woo hoo
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,989
    Starmer had a massive majority. But no idea how to govern with it.

    Which ultimately meant he was shite - and out the door in two years.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,220
    ‘One of their worst?’ It was the worst. The worst since 1935 and arguably since 1931.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311
    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,882
    ydoethur said:

    ‘One of their worst?’ It was the worst. The worst since 1935 and arguably since 1931.

    Yah, fixed now.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531
    Coincidentally, Badenoch has got to equal Starmer's achievement of 209 gains to win a majority next time.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,565

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who will do the investigating? And Infantino has got the leadership sewn up again so it looks like we’re stuck with the corruption .

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,125
    nico67 said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who will do the investigating? And Infantino has got the leadership sewn up again so it looks like we’re stuck with the corruption .

    Good morning, everyone.

    Reminds me of MBS and the FIA.

    Speaking of which, baffled by Hamilton getting a penalty and Leclerc not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,220

    Christopher Nolan expects audiences to believe this trip lasted 10 years



    https://x.com/TerribleMaps/status/2078564480343245099

    Satnav may be a god to you but it’s no Zeus to the rest of us.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531
    edited July 20

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Totally agree but that's never going to happen. The only way to sort FIFA out would be for UEFA to boycott the World Cup.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,444

    Christopher Nolan expects audiences to believe this trip lasted 10 years



    https://x.com/TerribleMaps/status/2078564480343245099

    Dan Snow started his voyage in Levkas on Channel
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,220
    edited July 20

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Totally agree but that's never going to happen. The only way to sot FIFA out would be for UEFA to boycott the World Cup.
    Maybe we could actually combine this with @Dura_Ace views on why Ukraine droned a warehouse and see what the Ukrainians would charge for droning FIFA headquarters while a board meeting is in progress?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,882

    nico67 said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who will do the investigating? And Infantino has got the leadership sewn up again so it looks like we’re stuck with the corruption .

    Good morning, everyone.

    Reminds me of MBS and the FIA.

    Speaking of which, baffled by Hamilton getting a penalty and Leclerc not.
    Have you seen their bullshit justification ?

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5605704#Comment_5605704
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,220
    The last time we had five governments in four years was 1922-24 when it was five in two. However, one man (Baldwin) was PM for two of those governments.

    The last time we had five PMs in four or fewer years was 1865-68 - Palmerston (died) Russell (removed by the Commons) Derby (retired on health grounds) Disraeli (lost election) Gladstone (won election).

    Both of those were before the advent of universal suffrage in 1928.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,094
    edited July 20

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    By whom? The Swiss Government?

    Are they not there still so as to have a high fence to hide behind?

    The only option may be a mass exodus. We will not lead that because our perk of 4 teams in one country would be a tough one to maintain.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302
    ydoethur said:

    The last time we had five governments in four years was 1922-24 when it was five in two. However, one man (Baldwin) was PM for two of those governments.

    The last time we had five PMs in four or fewer years was 1865-68 - Palmerston (died) Russell (removed by the Commons) Derby (retired on health grounds) Disraeli (lost election) Gladstone (won election).

    Both of those were before the advent of universal suffrage in 1928.

    So are you saying it is women's fault or not?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,247
    Rooney now has automatic pardon for terrible hair plug job, crap managerships and all them grabbed grannies.

    george
    @StokeyyG2
    ‘I like a lot of them artists but I thought it was crap…’

    Wayne Rooney on the half time show for the World Cup Final 👏🤣🤣🤣

    https://x.com/StokeyyG2/status/2078939055933321260?s=20
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,125

    nico67 said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who will do the investigating? And Infantino has got the leadership sewn up again so it looks like we’re stuck with the corruption .

    Good morning, everyone.

    Reminds me of MBS and the FIA.

    Speaking of which, baffled by Hamilton getting a penalty and Leclerc not.
    Have you seen their bullshit justification ?

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5605704#Comment_5605704
    I had not, cheers for the link.

    It's crackers. Even Russell thought it was a racing incident.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,094
    Good morning everyone.

    Yesterday's Perun was about Ukrainian strikes in the Azov Sea, including what is important and consequences for others.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-LdSQFJNC0
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611
    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    nico67 said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who will do the investigating? And Infantino has got the leadership sewn up again so it looks like we’re stuck with the corruption .

    Good morning, everyone.

    Reminds me of MBS and the FIA.

    Speaking of which, baffled by Hamilton getting a penalty and Leclerc not.
    Have you seen their bullshit justification ?

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5605704#Comment_5605704
    I had not, cheers for the link.

    It's crackers. Even Russell thought it was a racing incident.
    FIA document from the stewards https://www.fia.com/system/files/decision-document/2026_belgian_grand_prix_-_infringement_-_car_44_-_causing_a_collision_with_car_63_in_turn_5.pdf

    Followed by their convoluted decision-making over the unsafe release https://www.fia.com/system/files/decision-document/2026_belgian_grand_prix_-_infringement_-_ferrari_-_unsafe_release_of_car_44.pdf

    And their even more convoluted reasoning for not giving Lerlerc a penalty for crowding out Piastri https://www.fia.com/system/files/decision-document/2026_belgian_grand_prix_-_decision_-_car_16_-_collision_with_car_81_in_turn_5.pdf
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727
    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    They’re shipping drones, drone parts, and loads of other dual-use stuff like gun sights, night vision equipment, military clothing etc, getting it all from China and sending it close to the front lines where the Russian military pick it up.

    Military logistics, even when subcontracted, is a legitimate target, especially when the other side is still bombing hoses and schools. If ordinary Muscovites start to notice their stuff isn’t arriving, then all the better.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,856
    Nice of TSE to put up a graph showing that Starmer was superior to Cameron.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,882
    edited July 20

    Nice of TSE to put up a graph showing that Starmer was superior to Cameron.

    Dave won two general elections.

    Dave is the best.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,626

    Nice of TSE to put up a graph showing that Starmer was superior to Cameron.

    Dave won two general elections.

    Dave is the best.
    Dave hates AV :lol:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,856

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Military logistics hubs.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,626

    Starmer is the most successful LotO in terms of seats, but votes tell a different story:-

    2015 9,347,324 Miliband
    2017 12,877,918 Corbyn
    2019 10,269,051 Corbyn
    2024 9,708,716 Starmer

    My history's a little hazy, John , but did Corbyn become PM?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,856

    Nice of TSE to put up a graph showing that Starmer was superior to Cameron.

    Dave won two general elections.

    Dave is the best.
    On that metric, plus the one on the graph, Blair is better.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 8,434

    Starmer had a massive majority. But no idea how to govern with it.

    Which ultimately meant he was shite - and out the door in two years.

    I find it strange that people seem surprised at the concept you can be a good leader of the Opposition, and a poor prime minister. Different jobs. Different skill sets.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,626

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    VVP shouldn't have launched his brilliant SMO.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    They’re shipping drones, drone parts, and loads of other dual-use stuff like gun sights, night vision equipment, military clothing etc, getting it all from China and sending it close to the front lines where the Russian military pick it up.

    Military logistics, even when subcontracted, is a legitimate target, especially when the other side is still bombing hoses and schools. If ordinary Muscovites start to notice their stuff isn’t arriving, then all the better.
    Military logistics are a legitimate target which is why blowing up arms bunkers and the Russian fleet in the Baltic is fine.

    Where is your evidence that Wildberries were shipping arms?

    The next time Moscow takes down a domestic housing complex in Kiev they have an answer why they think it was a legitimate target.

    The sooner Putin comes out of the Kremlin feet first the better.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,689

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who investigates the world governing body?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302

    Starmer is the most successful LotO in terms of seats, but votes tell a different story:-

    2015 9,347,324 Miliband
    2017 12,877,918 Corbyn
    2019 10,269,051 Corbyn
    2024 9,708,716 Starmer

    My history's a little hazy, John , but did Corbyn become PM?
    Corbyn was such a loser he did not even win a free pair of glasses in Lord Alli's tombola.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    Starmer had a massive majority. But no idea how to govern with it.

    Which ultimately meant he was shite - and out the door in two years.

    Five years as LotO, high in the polls as the election approached, but seemingly no plan whatsoever as to what to do with power - as if being in power was itself the goal, rather than running the country.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,789

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,094
    AnneJGP said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    Who investigates the world governing body?
    Hmmm. It could be like boxing.

    We clearly need 4 World Cups.

    Then the Yanks can have one of their own just like golf. Performed in Donald's padded cell with one contestant so he always wins.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,789

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    It was not Amazon , just a front for them sanction busting. Long may it continue till the dummies get the picture, they don't like a taste of their own medicine.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 8,014
    edited July 20
    I wonder what punishment will be meted out to Argentina as a nation and to individual players

    Exclusion from the next World Cup.must be on the cards
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    They’re shipping drones, drone parts, and loads of other dual-use stuff like gun sights, night vision equipment, military clothing etc, getting it all from China and sending it close to the front lines where the Russian military pick it up.

    Military logistics, even when subcontracted, is a legitimate target, especially when the other side is still bombing hoses and schools. If ordinary Muscovites start to notice their stuff isn’t arriving, then all the better.
    Military logistics are a legitimate target which is why blowing up arms bunkers and the Russian fleet in the Baltic is fine.

    Where is your evidence that Wildberries were shipping arms?

    The next time Moscow takes down a domestic housing complex in Kiev they have an answer why they think it was a legitimate target.

    The sooner Putin comes out of the Kremlin feet first the better.
    A thread of screenshots of what’s clearly military equipment available from WildBerries. Civilians aren’t going to be buying fibre-optic drones and 50km cables.

    https://x.com/gloooud/status/2078404688316076080

    It’s everything you need to fight a war, apart from the explosives themselves.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,531

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    They’re shipping drones, drone parts, and loads of other dual-use stuff like gun sights, night vision equipment, military clothing etc, getting it all from China and sending it close to the front lines where the Russian military pick it up.

    Military logistics, even when subcontracted, is a legitimate target, especially when the other side is still bombing hoses and schools. If ordinary Muscovites start to notice their stuff isn’t arriving, then all the better.
    Military logistics are a legitimate target which is why blowing up arms bunkers and the Russian fleet in the Baltic is fine.

    Where is your evidence that Wildberries were shipping arms?

    The next time Moscow takes down a domestic housing complex in Kiev they have an answer why they think it was a legitimate target.

    The sooner Putin comes out of the Kremlin feet first the better.
    Not having 'an answer' hasn't stopped them to date.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,094

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    They’re shipping drones, drone parts, and loads of other dual-use stuff like gun sights, night vision equipment, military clothing etc, getting it all from China and sending it close to the front lines where the Russian military pick it up.

    Military logistics, even when subcontracted, is a legitimate target, especially when the other side is still bombing hoses and schools. If ordinary Muscovites start to notice their stuff isn’t arriving, then all the better.
    Military logistics are a legitimate target which is why blowing up arms bunkers and the Russian fleet in the Baltic is fine.

    Where is your evidence that Wildberries were shipping arms?

    The next time Moscow takes down a domestic housing complex in Kiev they have an answer why they think it was a legitimate target.

    The sooner Putin comes out of the Kremlin feet first the better.
    eg BBC
    Serhii Kuzan, chairman of the Ukrainian Security and Cooperation Centre, told the BBC that Wildberries was a "vital component" of Russian logistics, and that its website had been used by Russian volunteers to purchase military equipment including walkie-talkies, body armour and drone components.

    "The primary rationale for striking Wildberries' warehouses is to disrupt Russian logistics and the supply of dual-use goods, critical electronics, sanctioned goods and the like to the Russian army and Russian arms manufacturers," he said.

    "The collateral damage from such strikes could also have a serious impact on the Russian economy, as well as a psychological effect on Russian society and, likely, on continued support for the war."

    Russia has targeted similar facilities in Ukraine since the start of the war, including its postal service and some electronics distributors.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyxlm877p2o
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302
    malcolmg said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
    FIFA might well have a decades-long history of corruption but are nonetheless succeeding in spreading the game.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,416
    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,727

    Starmer is the most successful LotO in terms of seats, but votes tell a different story:-

    2015 9,347,324 Miliband
    2017 12,877,918 Corbyn
    2019 10,269,051 Corbyn
    2024 9,708,716 Starmer

    My history's a little hazy, John , but did Corbyn become PM?
    There's still time for a Corbyn premiership. A late surge by Your Party? Piers gets elected in Clacton?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,538

    malcolmg said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
    FIFA might well have a decades-long history of corruption but are nonetheless succeeding in spreading the game.
    Not sure that FIFA isn't just a parasite on the Champions League and the various European Leagues...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    They’re shipping drones, drone parts, and loads of other dual-use stuff like gun sights, night vision equipment, military clothing etc, getting it all from China and sending it close to the front lines where the Russian military pick it up.

    Military logistics, even when subcontracted, is a legitimate target, especially when the other side is still bombing hoses and schools. If ordinary Muscovites start to notice their stuff isn’t arriving, then all the better.
    Military logistics are a legitimate target which is why blowing up arms bunkers and the Russian fleet in the Baltic is fine.

    Where is your evidence that Wildberries were shipping arms?

    The next time Moscow takes down a domestic housing complex in Kiev they have an answer why they think it was a legitimate target.

    The sooner Putin comes out of the Kremlin feet first the better.
    eg BBC
    Serhii Kuzan, chairman of the Ukrainian Security and Cooperation Centre, told the BBC that Wildberries was a "vital component" of Russian logistics, and that its website had been used by Russian volunteers to purchase military equipment including walkie-talkies, body armour and drone components.

    "The primary rationale for striking Wildberries' warehouses is to disrupt Russian logistics and the supply of dual-use goods, critical electronics, sanctioned goods and the like to the Russian army and Russian arms manufacturers," he said.

    "The collateral damage from such strikes could also have a serious impact on the Russian economy, as well as a psychological effect on Russian society and, likely, on continued support for the war."

    Russia has targeted similar facilities in Ukraine since the start of the war, including its postal service and some electronics distributors.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyxlm877p2o
    Yes, apart from the bit about denting Russian support for the war. Normally bombing civilians makes them rally round their side and call for revenge. See the blitz in WW2, Germany in WW2, and, well, Ukraine in the SMO.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,789
    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
    FIFA might well have a decades-long history of corruption but are nonetheless succeeding in spreading the game.
    Not sure that FIFA isn't just a parasite on the Champions League and the various European Leagues...
    Parasite on all of football.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,789

    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...

    First day back at work after holiday for me
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302
    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
    FIFA might well have a decades-long history of corruption but are nonetheless succeeding in spreading the game.
    Not sure that FIFA isn't just a parasite on the Champions League and the various European Leagues...
    To a point but UEFA did not spread the game to Asia and Africa, from where European sides now recruit many players. Sure, FIFA is bad but let's not ignore the good parts. (That photo stopped me saying throw the baby out with the bathwater!)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    I wonder what punishment will be meted out to Argentina as a nation and to individual players

    Exclusion from the next World Cup.must be on the cards

    One has to wonder if UEFA might actually kick up a proper stink about the Argies? Several of the Spanish players were assaulted on the pitch after the match finished.

    Just about the only thing that might influence FIFA to take action, is a serious threat of a UEFA boycott of the World Cup. The Argies behaved terribly for the whole tournament
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
    FIFA might well have a decades-long history of corruption but are nonetheless succeeding in spreading the game.
    Not sure that FIFA isn't just a parasite on the Champions League and the various European Leagues...
    To a point but UEFA did not spread the game to Asia and Africa, from where European sides now recruit many players. Sure, FIFA is bad but let's not ignore the good parts. (That photo stopped me saying throw the baby out with the bathwater!)
    UEFA have done more to spread the game to Asia and Africa than FIFA have.

    The Premier League and La Liga etc are what has spread the game to Asia and Africa, not FIFA.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,004

    Christopher Nolan expects audiences to believe this trip lasted 10 years



    https://x.com/TerribleMaps/status/2078564480343245099

    That's by car.
    What does it look like in a Bronze Age warship ?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
    This is the same absolutism you advocated in Gaza. Your ultimate analysis is always "f*** the Geneva Convention".

    I am sure there are good reasons to bomb civilian targets. I am sure sometimes bombing civilian targets is a bad idea.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,347

    Starmer is the most successful LotO in terms of seats, but votes tell a different story:-

    2015 9,347,324 Miliband
    2017 12,877,918 Corbyn
    2019 10,269,051 Corbyn
    2024 9,708,716 Starmer

    My history's a little hazy, John , but did Corbyn become PM?
    Starmer became PM because:
    (a) he and his team (i.e. McSweeney) were highly effective up to 2019 in the way they positioned Starmer to be able to persuade Labour members to ditch the Corbynites and elect Starmer as leader.
    (b) Johnson, Truss and Sunak turned out to be crap, no thanks to Starmer, and after 14 years the country was crying out for change. So he got lucky.

    No reason for such a figure to turn out to be a good PM.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
    This is the same absolutism you advocated in Gaza. Your ultimate analysis is always "f*** the Geneva Convention".

    I am sure there are good reasons to bomb civilian targets. I am sure sometimes bombing civilian targets is a bad idea.
    The Geneva Convention does not say don't bomb those who have attacked you, whether that be Russia or Hamas.

    Dual use targets are legitimate targets if proportionate under the Geneva Convention.

    Hiding behind the Convention to prevent any self-defence does not make you right.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,416
    Really interesting piece in yesterday's Times from Sunak on how to manage your time as a PM.

    He writes that the no 1 way to gain more time to focus on your priorities is to have a foreign sec who can get on with the job and is already very well connected and respected across the international community and associated agencies. This frees up time the PM otherwise has to spend on international stuff.

    Read like an argument for David M rather than Ed M to me.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,727

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    I'm OK with it.

    We're seeing a repeat of 1944 play out before our eyes. Ukraine is strangling the Russian war economy by focusing on oil targets, just as the Allies did to Germany before them. (The Allies could have done that earlier but failed initially to realise that a shortage of oil was capable of bringing the German war machine and economy to its knees.) But once the Allies had focused their attacks away from area bombing, the other way they paralysed the German economy was by hitting the transport hub which brought together its parts. Ukraine going after Russian logistics hubs is not dissimilar, the difference is that 80 years on the logistics hubs are distribution warehouses rather than railway marshalling yards and so on.

    What Ukraine is not doing is area bombing of cities as a whole, which is effectively Russia's approach in so far as it does not seem to be able to target attacks.

    If the result justifies the means, fair enough. Your analysis was better than Bartie's " if they don't want us to blow the shit out of them, the Russians should withdraw to 2014 international borders".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 91,004
    We'd better pray for a mild winter.
    Trump's economic war on Europe is far more effective than his war on Iran.

    https://x.com/SStapczynski/status/2079025092139606420
    The Hormuz closure is choking LNG supplies to Europe 🇪🇺⚠️

    European imports are down 33% year-over-year (on a 30-day moving avg basis). That's because Asia is taking more US LNG to replace supply stuck in the Persian Gulf

    Also, Europe imports at lowest seasonal level since 2021
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,538
    edited July 20
    I think the thing that killed Starmer was the utterly botched appointment of Mandelson as Ambassador in Washington. he and his advisors knew that the Dark Lord was toxic waste, but were prepared to take the risk, because they wrongly thought Trump would have any kind of fellow feeling to another "friend" of Epstein. It was realpolitik but it was utterly botched because a) Trump didn't care b) Mandelson lied to them- like *duh* and C) they couldn't get their story straight when the shit inevitably hit the fan- a massive failure by the comms team to anticipate a possible, even likely, scenario.

    Indeed all along, and from day one, Starmer's comms team were abysmal. The bitter irony is that the Starmer government actually was effective in some critical areas- especially foreign policy. However, the winter fuel fiasco undermined trust and Mandelson undermined respect. Starmer's epitaph will somewhat depend on how Burnham does, but I think it will certainly not have the same stink of abject failure as Johnson, Truss or even Sunak. We can only hope for the sake of the country that the mess of the last 11 years is finally put behind us. The pitiful Trump wannabes on the right seem to have finally been found out by the voters, so we may yet hope that a recovery in our economic and political well being is still possible.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,989

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
    This is the same absolutism you advocated in Gaza. Your ultimate analysis is always "f*** the Geneva Convention".

    I am sure there are good reasons to bomb civilian targets. I am sure sometimes bombing civilian targets is a bad idea.
    Except, these are not "civilian targets". They are part of the Russian military's logistics netwrk, for military material.

    So fuck them.

    Get on your high horse and look at the moral highground from up there. You'll get a great view of the tens and tens and tens of thousands of Russian war crimes. I'm sure even you will be able to see missiles slamming into Ukrainian hopsitals, tower blocks, kindergartens, markets....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,611

    Cicero said:

    malcolmg said:

    There needs to be a complete and full investigation into FIFA's behaviour this tournament.

    No stone unturned.

    they will continue grifting , infant is just not as clever as the previous one
    FIFA might well have a decades-long history of corruption but are nonetheless succeeding in spreading the game.
    Not sure that FIFA isn't just a parasite on the Champions League and the various European Leagues...
    To a point but UEFA did not spread the game to Asia and Africa, from where European sides now recruit many players. Sure, FIFA is bad but let's not ignore the good parts. (That photo stopped me saying throw the baby out with the bathwater!)
    UEFA have done more to spread the game to Asia and Africa than FIFA have.

    The Premier League and La Liga etc are what has spread the game to Asia and Africa, not FIFA.
    Yup, walk into a bar in Asia, Africa, MidEast, on an average weekend in winter, and the Premier League is what’s on the TV.

    Get in a taxi anywhere in that region, and the first question when they hear a British accent will be about football. Liverpool, Mo Salah…
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302

    Really interesting piece in yesterday's Times from Sunak on how to manage your time as a PM.

    He writes that the no 1 way to gain more time to focus on your priorities is to have a foreign sec who can get on with the job and is already very well connected and respected across the international community and associated agencies. This frees up time the PM otherwise has to spend on international stuff.

    Read like an argument for David M rather than Ed M to me.

    Harvard-educated lawyer David Lammy schmoozed JD Vance and got Starmer into the Normandy commemorations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496
    edited July 20

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
    This is the same absolutism you advocated in Gaza. Your ultimate analysis is always "f*** the Geneva Convention".

    I am sure there are good reasons to bomb civilian targets. I am sure sometimes bombing civilian targets is a bad idea.
    The precedent for the legitimacy of dual use targets goes back to ancient times - bridges & roads.

    The argument of where the line between civilian and military is, is far more complicated than it at first seems.

    To give a rarely mentioned example - in a number of countries, airlines are given a subsidy, for cargo aircraft. This is so that, in time of war, the planes are available for military logistics.

    Does this mean that Fed Ex (for example) is a legitimate target?

    I worked for a while in telecoms. The entire phone network, in most countries, is setup to be taken over for military purposes in time of war.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,707
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jul/20/islamophobia-spectator-britain-oldest-political-magazine

    A great piece on Islmophobia in the Spectator, charting the decline of a once-respected institution.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 6,162

    I wonder what punishment will be meted out to Argentina as a nation and to individual players

    Exclusion from the next World Cup.must be on the cards

    Good PR for the Foreign Office though. More of the world got to see what Argentina are like.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,707

    Rooney now has automatic pardon for terrible hair plug job, crap managerships and all them grabbed grannies.

    george
    @StokeyyG2
    ‘I like a lot of them artists but I thought it was crap…’

    Wayne Rooney on the half time show for the World Cup Final 👏🤣🤣🤣

    https://x.com/StokeyyG2/status/2078939055933321260?s=20

    For me Rooney was the surprise hit of the tournament. I found him well-informed, fair-minded and insightful.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496
    Cicero said:

    I think the thing that killed Starmer was the utterly botched appointment of Mandelson as Ambassador in Washington. he and his advisors knew that the Dark Lord was toxic waste, but were prepared to take the risk, because they wrongly thought Trump would have any kind of fellow feeling to another "friend" of Epstein. It was realpolitik but it was utterly botched because a) Trump didn't care b) Mandelson lied to them- like *duh* and C) they couldn't get their story straight when the shit inevitably hit the fan- a massive failure by the comms team to anticipate a possible, even likely, scenario.

    Indeed all along, and from day one, Starmer's comms team were abysmal. The bitter irony is that the Starmer government actually was effective in some critical areas- especially foreign policy. However, the winter fuel fiasco undermined trust and Mandelson undermined respect. Starmer's epitaph will somewhat depend on how Burnham does, but I think it will certainly not have the same stink of abject failure as Johnson, Truss or even Sunak. We can only hope for the sake of the country that the mess of the last 11 years is finally put behind us. The pitiful Trump wannabes on the right seem to have finally been found out by the voters, so we may yet hope that a recovery in our economic and political well being is still possible.

    Starmer & Co. wanted plausible deniability - "No papers about Mandelbrot passed my desk"

    If you are stupid enough to employ a man who has resigned in disgrace about money and influence, multiple times, you can either play The Three Monkeys or you can demand to see (and have created) the 500 page deep dive into his past.

    You can either have leadership and taking responsibility. Or you can have plausible deniability, and kick subordinates off the boat.

    Starmer chose the later.

    Worth noting that, functionally, vetting of Top People is back to "He's a Good Chap. Good Chaps are good." - all that process sums to zero usefulness. just announce that there will be no vetting for the PMs appointments and save the paperwork.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,690
    It was a desire for change after 14 years of Tory rule and the divide on the right between the Tories and Reform that gave Starmer Labour such a big majority. Voteshare wise Labour in 2024 did about as well as Kinnock Labour in 1992
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,727
    edited July 20

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
    Agreed.

    I wonder... Are there any other countries that you think could avoid attack by pulling back to their internationally recognised borders? Like about 2000km south of western Russia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,690

    Really interesting piece in yesterday's Times from Sunak on how to manage your time as a PM.

    He writes that the no 1 way to gain more time to focus on your priorities is to have a foreign sec who can get on with the job and is already very well connected and respected across the international community and associated agencies. This frees up time the PM otherwise has to spend on international stuff.

    Read like an argument for David M rather than Ed M to me.

    Harvard-educated lawyer David Lammy schmoozed JD Vance and got Starmer into the Normandy commemorations.
    I see VP Vance has had a fourth child, a son, Alec

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj63kngxpxpo
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,311
    I see Steve Bray has decided to be a prick outside Buckingham Palace today instead.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,761
    Good morning

    The World Cup was a success and provided lots of good and highly watchable matches

    It was only besmirched by Infantino and Trump who wanted it to be all about them and their tawdry influencing, and Argentina who managed to achieve the most disliked football team in the competition which is a shame for Messi, as he is one of the greatest ever footballers and displayed great dignity while his teammates shamed his team and country
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,882

    Rooney now has automatic pardon for terrible hair plug job, crap managerships and all them grabbed grannies.

    george
    @StokeyyG2
    ‘I like a lot of them artists but I thought it was crap…’

    Wayne Rooney on the half time show for the World Cup Final 👏🤣🤣🤣

    https://x.com/StokeyyG2/status/2078939055933321260?s=20

    For me Rooney was the surprise hit of the tournament. I found him well-informed, fair-minded and insightful.
    The BBC should get Rooney to commentate on Eurovision.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    Good morning

    The World Cup was a success and provided lots of good and highly watchable matches

    It was only besmirched by Infantino and Trump who wanted it to be all about them and their tawdry influencing, and Argentina who managed to achieve the most disliked football team in the competition which is a shame for Messi, as he is one of the greatest ever footballers and displayed great dignity while his teammates shamed his team and country

    Messi showed dignity at the final whistle, unlike his team-mates, shaking hands with every winning player and not joining in the fighting.

    But even he was dirty in the game, trying to get a Spanish player sent off.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,538
    edited July 20

    I wonder what punishment will be meted out to Argentina as a nation and to individual players

    Exclusion from the next World Cup.must be on the cards

    Good PR for the Foreign Office though. More of the world got to see what Argentina are like.
    I know an awful lot of foreign supporters who were turned off Argentina before the final even kicked off. I imagine global support for Spain was pretty high: Trump and Infantino have perceived bias towards the Messi and the Argentinians did not make them popular elsewhere, then there was the general gamesmanship and ugly play...

    Now the Argentinians are definitely the bad guys... the scenes after they lost were just unacceptable.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,247
    edited July 20

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jul/20/islamophobia-spectator-britain-oldest-political-magazine

    A great piece on Islmophobia in the Spectator, charting the decline of a once-respected institution.

    For a moment there I read that as a great piece (to be found) on Islamophobia in The Spectator.

    Nearly fell off my chair, I did.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,761

    Cicero said:

    I think the thing that killed Starmer was the utterly botched appointment of Mandelson as Ambassador in Washington. he and his advisors knew that the Dark Lord was toxic waste, but were prepared to take the risk, because they wrongly thought Trump would have any kind of fellow feeling to another "friend" of Epstein. It was realpolitik but it was utterly botched because a) Trump didn't care b) Mandelson lied to them- like *duh* and C) they couldn't get their story straight when the shit inevitably hit the fan- a massive failure by the comms team to anticipate a possible, even likely, scenario.

    Indeed all along, and from day one, Starmer's comms team were abysmal. The bitter irony is that the Starmer government actually was effective in some critical areas- especially foreign policy. However, the winter fuel fiasco undermined trust and Mandelson undermined respect. Starmer's epitaph will somewhat depend on how Burnham does, but I think it will certainly not have the same stink of abject failure as Johnson, Truss or even Sunak. We can only hope for the sake of the country that the mess of the last 11 years is finally put behind us. The pitiful Trump wannabes on the right seem to have finally been found out by the voters, so we may yet hope that a recovery in our economic and political well being is still possible.

    Starmer & Co. wanted plausible deniability - "No papers about Mandelbrot passed my desk"

    If you are stupid enough to employ a man who has resigned in disgrace about money and influence, multiple times, you can either play The Three Monkeys or you can demand to see (and have created) the 500 page deep dive into his past.

    You can either have leadership and taking responsibility. Or you can have plausible deniability, and kick subordinates off the boat.

    Starmer chose the later.

    Worth noting that, functionally, vetting of Top People is back to "He's a Good Chap. Good Chaps are good." - all that process sums to zero usefulness. just announce that there will be no vetting for the PMs appointments and save the paperwork.
    Just like Johnson's fall from grace it wasn't just one thing that took down Starmer, but a series of poor decisions but obviously Mandelson and the resignation of John Healey provided the coup de grace
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,487

    Sandpit said:

    After the Russian oil refinery bingo card was completed by the Ukranians, now we have the Russian logistics warehouse bingo card!

    https://x.com/nafovoyager/status/2079080699152523537

    I am.more comfortable with the former than the latter.

    One knows working in petrochemicals at a time of war is dangerous. I am not sure an equivalent of Amazon was on the civilian danger list.
    Dual use - petrochemicals are targeted in war because they are a vital part of military usage. In addition to civilian usage.

    See the electricity grid, bridges and many other things.
    I have absolutely no problem with the lights going out in Moscow or rationing fuel for the family Moskvitch. Knocking out Amazon seems to me to be mission creep.
    The mission is to win the war and defeat Russia which launched the invasion.

    Attacking Russian logistics is absolutely legitimate as part of that mission. If Russia does not want the logistics hit, they can pull back to their internationally recognised borders.
    Agreed.

    I wonder... Are there any other countries that you think could avoid attack by pulling back to their internationally recognised borders? Like about 2000km south of western Russia.
    No.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 41,027
    edited July 20
    Are there any cabinet ministers likely to be asked to leave the government completely?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,538
    Nigelb said:

    Christopher Nolan expects audiences to believe this trip lasted 10 years



    https://x.com/TerribleMaps/status/2078564480343245099

    That's by car.
    What does it look like in a Bronze Age warship ?
    Which presumably you would have to carry...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 25,084
    Happy new Prime Minister Day to all who celebrate. How soon/long until we gather to celebrate again?

    On topic: Starmer really wasn't a great Leader of the Opposition. He just happened to be leader of the opposition at the time that Liz Truss became Prime Minister, and doomed the Tories to the worst election result in their history.

    Sometimes life is about being in the right place at the right time, and Starmer certainly managed that. And then, if you judge the success of an election-winning Prime Minister by the length of their tenure, divided by the majority they won at the election, Starmer likely has one of the lowest days per MP ratios in history. He was not up to the job.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,676

    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...

    By sun down we will have a cabinet of horrors, the useless, the felons, and downright stupid.

    It’s off to an awful start with all this Nationalisation Of Water Companies nonsense.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,247
    edited July 20

    Good morning

    The World Cup was a success and provided lots of good and highly watchable matches

    It was only besmirched by Infantino and Trump who wanted it to be all about them and their tawdry influencing, and Argentina who managed to achieve the most disliked football team in the competition which is a shame for Messi, as he is one of the greatest ever footballers and displayed great dignity while his teammates shamed his team and country

    Messi showed dignity at the final whistle, unlike his team-mates, shaking hands with every winning player and not joining in the fighting.

    But even he was dirty in the game, trying to get a Spanish player sent off.
    Naive question, is diving in the penalty box to win a penalty and an opposing player possibly sent off dirty play?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302

    Rooney now has automatic pardon for terrible hair plug job, crap managerships and all them grabbed grannies.

    george
    @StokeyyG2
    ‘I like a lot of them artists but I thought it was crap…’

    Wayne Rooney on the half time show for the World Cup Final 👏🤣🤣🤣

    https://x.com/StokeyyG2/status/2078939055933321260?s=20

    For me Rooney was the surprise hit of the tournament. I found him well-informed, fair-minded and insightful.
    I suspect Rooney's accent and poor enunciation condemned him for many, rather than what he said. Other breakout pundits were Joe Hart, and ITV's referee and kitchen tactics women, Christina Unkel and Emma Hayes, two aspects the BBC fumbled.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496

    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...

    By sun down we will have a cabinet of horrors, the useless, the felons, and downright stupid.

    It’s off to an awful start with all this Nationalisation Of Water Companies nonsense.
    The Water Companies in question have bankrupted themselves. Keeping on proving them up as zombies is a stupid farce.

    Too Big To Fail is always a disaster. We need more bankruptcies in this country, not less.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302

    Happy new Prime Minister Day to all who celebrate. How soon/long until we gather to celebrate again?

    On topic: Starmer really wasn't a great Leader of the Opposition. He just happened to be leader of the opposition at the time that Liz Truss became Prime Minister, and doomed the Tories to the worst election result in their history.

    Sometimes life is about being in the right place at the right time, and Starmer certainly managed that. And then, if you judge the success of an election-winning Prime Minister by the length of their tenure, divided by the majority they won at the election, Starmer likely has one of the lowest days per MP ratios in history. He was not up to the job.

    Starmer played his part in slowly deconstructing Boris, and ousting a Prime Minister is part of the job. Kemi will claim Starmer but I'm not wholly convinced she made any difference there.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,727

    Starmer is the most successful LotO in terms of seats, but votes tell a different story:-

    2015 9,347,324 Miliband
    2017 12,877,918 Corbyn
    2019 10,269,051 Corbyn
    2024 9,708,716 Starmer

    My history's a little hazy, John , but did Corbyn become PM?
    There's still time for a Corbyn premiership. A late surge by Your Party? Piers gets elected in Clacton?
    Oh, sorry, I'd missed that Piers failed to get himself nominated in Clacton!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,302

    Morning all,

    A new day is dawning is it not?

    Or something like that...

    By sun down we will have a cabinet of horrors, the useless, the felons, and downright stupid.

    It’s off to an awful start with all this Nationalisation Of Water Companies nonsense.
    The Water Companies in question have bankrupted themselves. Keeping on proving them up as zombies is a stupid farce.

    Too Big To Fail is always a disaster. We need more bankruptcies in this country, not less.
    Interestingly that was one of the questions the Harvard/Ed Balls analysis of Covid raised. In Britain we propped up companies. In America they let companies fail but increased support for workers (or ex-workers).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,761

    Happy new Prime Minister Day to all who celebrate. How soon/long until we gather to celebrate again?

    On topic: Starmer really wasn't a great Leader of the Opposition. He just happened to be leader of the opposition at the time that Liz Truss became Prime Minister, and doomed the Tories to the worst election result in their history.

    Sometimes life is about being in the right place at the right time, and Starmer certainly managed that. And then, if you judge the success of an election-winning Prime Minister by the length of their tenure, divided by the majority they won at the election, Starmer likely has one of the lowest days per MP ratios in history. He was not up to the job.

    Starmer played his part in slowly deconstructing Boris, and ousting a Prime Minister is part of the job. Kemi will claim Starmer but I'm not wholly convinced she made any difference there.
    Her humble address resulted in the release of all the damning information on Mandelson's appointment so in that she did play a key role
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,496

    Happy new Prime Minister Day to all who celebrate. How soon/long until we gather to celebrate again?

    On topic: Starmer really wasn't a great Leader of the Opposition. He just happened to be leader of the opposition at the time that Liz Truss became Prime Minister, and doomed the Tories to the worst election result in their history.

    Sometimes life is about being in the right place at the right time, and Starmer certainly managed that. And then, if you judge the success of an election-winning Prime Minister by the length of their tenure, divided by the majority they won at the election, Starmer likely has one of the lowest days per MP ratios in history. He was not up to the job.

    Starmer played his part in slowly deconstructing Boris, and ousting a Prime Minister is part of the job. Kemi will claim Starmer but I'm not wholly convinced she made any difference there.
    Her humble address resulted in the release of all the damning information on Mandelson's appointment so in that she did play a key role
    And there was non-trivial pushback that by getting all the documents revealed in Parliament, this was damaging National Security/Legal Process/Embarrassing Important People
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