Skip to content

If after 10 years as PM Andy Burnham has these kinds of figures he'll be happy politicalbetting.com

24

Comments

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799
    edited 5:09PM

    Gary Sobers was my childhood hero, narrowly beating John Lennon. I am the proud possessor of his autograph, gained from him at Headingley - can't remember the precise year, but between 66-68.

    I'd rate him as the greatest all-round cricketer ever. He was also a real gentleman. He lived a good life to a good age, though, so no tears.

    Sadly Sobers' reputation has held up much better than Lennon's. I say sadly as I was also a great fan of Lennon's
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,390
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    FIFA President Gianni Infantino:

    “We are aware of the political message display from Argentina. We understand it’s against the rules but we also know it’s a matter of their nationality and we respect it.

    We will make a decision after the final.”

    https://x.com/FabrizioRomaxno/status/2078006000699740325?s=20

    Wut ?
    Remember how the dirty rotten cheating Argies got away with loads of stuff in the match on Wednesday?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,609
    'Keir Starmer's removal van arrives at No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2078104969266319844?s=20
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,526

    Andy_JS said:

    The one saving grace of Andy Burnham is that his voice isn't annoying like Sir Keir's.

    first PM in my lifetime without a strange accent
    Harold Wilson.
    before my time (born 1975)
    Snap!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,609
    AfD ahead, SPD fall to fifth in new German poll behind not only the AfD but CDU/CSU, Greens and Linke

    https://x.com/JLMelenchon/status/2078135571948372474?s=20
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,987

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799
    edited 5:13PM

    GIN1138 said:

    10 years for Andy as PM?

    He may not get ten months if we have a bond strike in the next few weeks...

    On what basis would there be a 'bond strike' Gin? I think it's very unlikely Burnham will be Labour's Liz Truss.
    Even if he was, I assume he will be sensible and not give anything too outrageous away until Parliament returns in September.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,351
    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    It is sick, but it is not inciting violence, so why should it be unlawful?

    It should possibly lead to termination of employment if the employer thinks that is suitable for bringing them into disrepute, but it should not be a criminal matter.

    Being sick and offensive and rude should not be a crime.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,385
    MattW said:

    RIP Sir Garfield Sobers

    Only ever saw him live once at Ilkeston where he scores a ton vs Derbyshire in quick time

    What a player

    Indeed. A great.

    But Ilkeston as a place for famous historic cricket encounters? Who knew?

    Here's mine from within a couple of miles of where the parents lived.

    During Derbyshire’s match against Warwickshire at Blackwell Colliery Cricket ground in 1910, which was to end in a draw, Arnold shared a nine wicket partnership of 283 runs with the Captain, John Chapman. Arnold scoring 123 runs and Chapman 160. This was a world record for first class cricket and has never been beaten. There is a plaque commemorating this event in Blackwell community centre.
    https://www.spanglefish.com/bmwcc/index.asp?pageid=197865

    It still stands:
    https://stats.acscricket.com/Records/First_Class/Overall/Batting/Highest_Partnerships_for_Ninth_Wicket.html
    And to think he once played for Paddock in the Huddersfield and District League.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799
    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    No difference. Or at least shouldn't be under the law. There was no threat, no incitement. Would the police have taken similar action if the target of the wrath was someone more universally disliked like Trump or Putin?

    As I said, all credit to the FSU for not being hypocrites over this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,423
    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    I thought it was, that, before Widdecombe died, some posts were made that were direct incitement (or viewable as such) ?
  • interestedinterested Posts: 56

    GIN1138 said:

    10 years for Andy as PM?

    He may not get ten months if we have a bond strike in the next few weeks...

    On what basis would there be a 'bond strike' Gin? I think it's very unlikely Burnham will be Labour's Liz Truss.
    Even if he was, I assume he will be sensible and not give anything too outrageous away until Parliament returns in September.
    I guess picking Ed as chancellor might start a trend.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799
    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    I think the problem with the Amnesty comments is that they risked actual financial and reputational damage to the organisations involved based on a series of lies. If Rowling had tried to have Amnesty prosecuted in some way then that would have been overreach but suing to correct false statements seems reasonable to me. That said, since Amnesty have now apologised and withdrawn the comments ( and reported themselves to the Charities Commission) I don't think suing is the correct course.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,247
    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    If they had used the phrase "anti-gender" (the European term) instead of "anti-rights", they would have been well within their, er, rights (sorry).

    As for the SLAPPing, well yes, but the phrase "don't argue with somebody who buys their ink by the ton" predates JKR by decades. Britain doesn't really have free speech in the way the Americans understand it and the chance of any British government implementing anything to stop rich people using lawyers to make their enemies STFU is nil.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,691

    The one saving grace of Andy Burnham is that his voice isn't annoying like Sir Keir's.

    first PM in my lifetime without a strange accent
    First since Callaghan for me. Truss didn't have a strange accent, actually, but her overall strangeness was still somehow manifested in her voice.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,691
    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    If they had used the phrase "anti-gender" (the European term) instead of "anti-rights", they would have been well within their, er, rights (sorry).

    As for the SLAPPing, well yes, but the phrase "don't argue with somebody who buys their ink by the ton" predates JKR by decades. Britain doesn't really have free speech in the way the Americans understand it and the chance of any British government implementing anything to stop rich people using lawyers to make their enemies STFU is nil.

    America is such a strange country. You can own a submachine gun or turn up to scream abuse at someone's funeral but you can't hang your washing up in your garden or buy a haggis.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,880
    HYUFD said:

    'Keir Starmer's removal van arrives at No 10'

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2078104969266319844?s=20

    Andys will be Kings move surely
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,852
    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    You are allowed to believe that men can be women, but I can also believe that they cannot. I think science is on my side of the argument but I also think we will never agree.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,423

    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    If they had used the phrase "anti-gender" (the European term) instead of "anti-rights", they would have been well within their, er, rights (sorry).

    As for the SLAPPing, well yes, but the phrase "don't argue with somebody who buys their ink by the ton" predates JKR by decades. Britain doesn't really have free speech in the way the Americans understand it and the chance of any British government implementing anything to stop rich people using lawyers to make their enemies STFU is nil.

    America is such a strange country. You can own a submachine gun or turn up to scream abuse at someone's funeral but you can't hang your washing up in your garden or buy a haggis.
    You can't actually own a submachine gun - easily.

    America actually has gun control. To own a fully automatic weapon (such as a submachine gun), you need an FFL - Federal Firearms License. These take a background check and all the other things that firearms license around the world have. IIRC they are a bit stricter than the UK firearms certificate.

    Fully automatic weapons are highly controlled, expensive and quite rare. Using one for a crime gets additional, heavy penalties. A number of states also ban ownership of full auto weapons.

    As a result, basically no legally held automatic weapons are used in crimes. A small number of fully automatic weapons are stolen and used in crimes - generally from the military or the vast array of heavily armed federal agencies. There is an issue with people converting semi-automatics. But the numbers for these are not very large, either.

    Legally owned automatic weapons are basically never used in crime, in the US.

    Gun control that works in the US - and no-one talks about it.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,987

    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    It is sick, but it is not inciting violence, so why should it be unlawful?

    It should possibly lead to termination of employment if the employer thinks that is suitable for bringing them into disrepute, but it should not be a criminal matter.

    Being sick and offensive and rude should not be a crime.
    I agree with you! Keep prosecutions for those that carry out and incite violence, not those that celebrate it after the fact. But I'm not rushing to barricades for Heather Herbert either. No-one should be subject to a violent death.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,532

    viewcode said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    If they had used the phrase "anti-gender" (the European term) instead of "anti-rights", they would have been well within their, er, rights (sorry).

    As for the SLAPPing, well yes, but the phrase "don't argue with somebody who buys their ink by the ton" predates JKR by decades. Britain doesn't really have free speech in the way the Americans understand it and the chance of any British government implementing anything to stop rich people using lawyers to make their enemies STFU is nil.

    America is such a strange country. You can own a submachine gun or turn up to scream abuse at someone's funeral but you can't hang your washing up in your garden or buy a haggis.
    The country that banned Kinder Surprise eggs because of a choking hazard but ignored countless mass gun murders of children !
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623
    Leading South West Liberal Democrat councillor and former Mayor finally resigns as councillor following anti semitic comments

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdm14jyl3ro
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,987

    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    I thought it was, that, before Widdecombe died, some posts were made that were direct incitement (or viewable as such) ?
    If that's the case she should be considered for prosecution.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,136

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    I think the problem with the Amnesty comments is that they risked actual financial and reputational damage to the organisations involved based on a series of lies. If Rowling had tried to have Amnesty prosecuted in some way then that would have been overreach but suing to correct false statements seems reasonable to me. That said, since Amnesty have now apologised and withdrawn the comments ( and reported themselves to the Charities Commission) I don't think suing is the correct course.
    I don't think they lied at all.

    That there is a debate between those who think trans rights and the rights of women are in competition, and those who believe they are not mutually exclusive, is evident. However it is also true that the organisations listed are "anti rights", specificially anti trans rights, treating those rights as subordinate or lesser than those of cis people.

    The problem is Amnesty didn't retract their report because of any admission of inaccuracy, but rather because the cost of defending those views against a litigious billionaire is too great.

    The law is open to all, like the Ritz hotel...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,555

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    The FSU are very good here.

    Bad speech should be condemned, but shouldn’t be criminalised.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,136
    edited 5:55PM

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    You are allowed to believe that men can be women, but I can also believe that they cannot. I think science is on my side of the argument but I also think we will never agree.
    Fair enough.

    So using your logic, let's say - purely hypothetically - you were caught in flagrante sucking the post-op penis of a hairy, muscly, bearded trans man. But it's not gay, because "she" was technically a woman?

    Or can we agree that a threshold is reached where a person is functionally and practically - one might say "for all purposes" - the gender in which they present?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,852
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    I think the problem with the Amnesty comments is that they risked actual financial and reputational damage to the organisations involved based on a series of lies. If Rowling had tried to have Amnesty prosecuted in some way then that would have been overreach but suing to correct false statements seems reasonable to me. That said, since Amnesty have now apologised and withdrawn the comments ( and reported themselves to the Charities Commission) I don't think suing is the correct course.
    I don't think they lied at all.

    That there is a debate between those who think trans rights and the rights of women are in competition, and those who believe they are not mutually exclusive, is evident. However it is also true that the organisations listed are "anti rights", specificially anti trans rights, treating those rights as subordinate or lesser than those of cis people.

    The problem is Amnesty didn't retract their report because of any admission of inaccuracy, but rather because the cost of defending those views against a litigious billionaire is too great.

    The law is open to all, like the Ritz hotel...
    But what is a trans right? The right to declare that, contrary to biology, you are not a man but are in fact a woman who possesses a cock and balls and women should just accept that? They have the same human rights as everyone else.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,788
    Nigelb said:

    The decline for nominations has passed in Clacton.
    https://www.tendringdc.gov.uk/content/13-august2026-election-of-member-of-parliament-to-the-clacton-constituency

    How soon do they publish the list of candidates ?

    once the returning officer is satisfied they are all valid nominations
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,852
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    You are allowed to believe that men can be women, but I can also believe that they cannot. I think science is on my side of the argument but I also think we will never agree.
    Fair enough.

    So using your logic, let's say - purely hypothetically - you were caught in flagrante sucking the post-op penis of a hairy, muscly, bearded trans man. But it's not gay, because "she" was technically a woman?

    Or can we agree that a threshold is reached where a person is functionally and practically - one might say "for all purposes" - the gender in which they present?
    A trans man does not have a penis and you are deluded if you think shaping some arm flash onto a tube makes one.

    I simply do not accept the concept of gender being different from chromosomal biology.

    Which will no doubt lead on to the rare people who do not match the xx or xy reality, but that's just a distraction.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,423
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    I thought it was, that, before Widdecombe died, some posts were made that were direct incitement (or viewable as such) ?
    If that's the case she should be considered for prosecution.
    For those who take a sarcastic view of history, it seems that the arrest was under the laws championed by Humza Yousaf - the bit about inciting hatred, it seems. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-68624949
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,680
    FF43 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Although I don't think Heather Herbert should be prosecuted, and likely won't be I suspect, Herbert's offence isn't speaking ill of the dead. It's that she celebrated the violent and painful death of Ann Widdecombe
    The mouth speaks what the heart is full of (Matthew 12:34)
  • TresTres Posts: 3,788

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    The point about Johnson and Farage is they were hiding the gifts.

    But Starmer is bad bad hypocrite for declaring gifts that were a fraction of Johnsons and Starmer. Never change PB.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,999
    Thatcher the great enemy. If that's all he's got....
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,136

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    You are allowed to believe that men can be women, but I can also believe that they cannot. I think science is on my side of the argument but I also think we will never agree.
    Fair enough.

    So using your logic, let's say - purely hypothetically - you were caught in flagrante sucking the post-op penis of a hairy, muscly, bearded trans man. But it's not gay, because "she" was technically a woman?

    Or can we agree that a threshold is reached where a person is functionally and practically - one might say "for all purposes" - the gender in which they present?
    A trans man does not have a penis and you are deluded if you think shaping some arm flash onto a tube makes one.

    I simply do not accept the concept of gender being different from chromosomal biology.

    Which will no doubt lead on to the rare people who do not match the xx or xy reality, but that's just a distraction.
    I will simply note you didn't answer the question :)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,423
    Tres said:

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    The point about Johnson and Farage is they were hiding the gifts.

    But Starmer is bad bad hypocrite for declaring gifts that were a fraction of Johnsons and Starmer. Never change PB.
    Take the money and fill out all the paperwork, is just the same as taking the money and not filling in the forms. At least to many people.

    Which why I agree with AOC - claiming you are morally pure because you got gifted stock options at a strike if 1% of market, is bollocks.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,852

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
    Are you still complaining about the PPE even though the inquiry found no evidence of personal gain or malfeasance among ministers. No doubt we wasted billions but I suspect that was the system, not the Tory government per se.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,069

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
    I’ve only said that Starmer was guilty of hypocrisy. You’ve inferred “more guilty” all on your own

    Boris, I believe, did pay for all the work himself in the end

    Did Saint Keir stump up for his Lady’s knickers?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602
    Taz said:

    Leading South West Liberal Democrat councillor and former Mayor finally resigns as councillor following anti semitic comments

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdm14jyl3ro

    Handy timing now a Corbynite is running Labour.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799
    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    I think the problem with the Amnesty comments is that they risked actual financial and reputational damage to the organisations involved based on a series of lies. If Rowling had tried to have Amnesty prosecuted in some way then that would have been overreach but suing to correct false statements seems reasonable to me. That said, since Amnesty have now apologised and withdrawn the comments ( and reported themselves to the Charities Commission) I don't think suing is the correct course.
    I don't think they lied at all.

    That there is a debate between those who think trans rights and the rights of women are in competition, and those who believe they are not mutually exclusive, is evident. However it is also true that the organisations listed are "anti rights", specificially anti trans rights, treating those rights as subordinate or lesser than those of cis people.

    The problem is Amnesty didn't retract their report because of any admission of inaccuracy, but rather because the cost of defending those views against a litigious billionaire is too great.

    The law is open to all, like the Ritz hotel...
    And reporting themselves to the Charity Commission. I presume if they decide Amnesty broke the rules you will add them to the anti-rights list as well.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602

    Thatcher the great enemy. If that's all he's got....

    From my side of the divide I believe Mrs Thatcher has a lot to answer for. However she remains a seminal figure, probably the seminal figure of post war British politics.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
    Are you still complaining about the PPE even though the inquiry found no evidence of personal gain or malfeasance among ministers. No doubt we wasted billions but I suspect that was the system, not the Tory government per se.
    I think your reading of the £10b spaffed up the wall on dodgy PPE is not entirely the conclusion reached. You would be quite rightly outraged if a Labour figure had overseen such absolute corruption. In fact three or four times each year someone hijacks a thread with Brown selling all the gold.

    Anyway, back to business. I have a £63m invisible garden bridge I believe I can sell you.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
    I’ve only said that Starmer was guilty of hypocrisy. You’ve inferred “more guilty” all on your own

    Boris, I believe, did pay for all the work himself in the end

    Did Saint Keir stump up for his Lady’s knickers?
    I thought the wallpaper stopped with Lord Brownlow. I don't know if Starmer paid for his spectacles. If I were him I would have.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,069

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
    I’ve only said that Starmer was guilty of hypocrisy. You’ve inferred “more guilty” all on your own

    Boris, I believe, did pay for all the work himself in the end

    Did Saint Keir stump up for his Lady’s knickers?
    I thought the wallpaper stopped with Lord Brownlow. I don't know if Starmer paid for his spectacles. If I were him I would have.
    Did Boris ever promise not to do resignation honours?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,153

    Thatcher the great enemy. If that's all he's got....

    If he has a plan, this is step one: Hillsborough, Palestine, Fatch..

    He wants to tickle the erogenous zones of the Labour base first.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Taz said:

    Leading South West Liberal Democrat councillor and former Mayor finally resigns as councillor following anti semitic comments

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdm14jyl3ro

    Handy timing now a Corbynite is running Labour.
    Burnham 😀😀
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,269
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    16m
    Six months ago Reform were claiming they were on the cusp of winning an outright majority and forming the next government. Now they're reduced to frantically hyping the Norfolk PCC result.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2078180534434365783
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,269
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    16m
    Six months ago Reform were claiming they were on the cusp of winning an outright majority and forming the next government. Now they're reduced to frantically hyping the Norfolk PCC result.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/2078180534434365783
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,136

    kyf_100 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    I think the problem with the Amnesty comments is that they risked actual financial and reputational damage to the organisations involved based on a series of lies. If Rowling had tried to have Amnesty prosecuted in some way then that would have been overreach but suing to correct false statements seems reasonable to me. That said, since Amnesty have now apologised and withdrawn the comments ( and reported themselves to the Charities Commission) I don't think suing is the correct course.
    I don't think they lied at all.

    That there is a debate between those who think trans rights and the rights of women are in competition, and those who believe they are not mutually exclusive, is evident. However it is also true that the organisations listed are "anti rights", specificially anti trans rights, treating those rights as subordinate or lesser than those of cis people.

    The problem is Amnesty didn't retract their report because of any admission of inaccuracy, but rather because the cost of defending those views against a litigious billionaire is too great.

    The law is open to all, like the Ritz hotel...
    And reporting themselves to the Charity Commission. I presume if they decide Amnesty broke the rules you will add them to the anti-rights list as well.
    The self-reporting thing is a necessary mechanism for retaining charitable status, it is not an admission of guilt. It is also notable that Amnesty have withdrawn the report but not apologised or said they were wrong, merely that "their internal standards were not upheld", i.e. we put something out that is going to get us sued by a vindictive, monomaniacal billionaire, and our fiduciary duty is to minimise that risk. But this is by the by.

    What is interesting for me is that you are not a free speech absolutist at all, only when it suits you.

    I'm quite consistent. Linehan shouldn't have been arrested, as noted above. The woman who tweeted mean things about Anne Widdecombe should not have been arrested.

    And Amnesty should not be sued into the ground by a mad, genital-obsessed billionaire for daring to suggest that the organizations listed in their report are campaigning against a marginalised group's human rights.

    I also point out I happen to disagree with the Amnesty report and think it's overreach. But the correct response is rebuttal, not legal action.

    Thank you for pointing out your hypocrisy in this matter and demonstrating your limited commitment to freedom of speech.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,525
    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,222

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,069
    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    One of the reasons PB Tories called on Starmer to resign was that he kept U turning. Bloody hypocrite.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 4,193
    kinabalu said:

    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.

    This is pretty much where I am.

    Also 'Supermanc' is tremendous.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,881

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    That is illegal speech, which they don't defend. And PA has lost its appeal against proscription.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    kinabalu said:

    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.

    This is pretty much where I am.

    Also 'Supermanc' is tremendous.
    Yes, it’s top drawer stuff. 👍
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,069

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    One of the reasons PB Tories called on Starmer to resign was that he kept U turning. Bloody hypocrite.
    I’m not sure at all what you’re trying to say..

    But it did make me think that hypocrisy is a moral U turn
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,852

    I couldn’t post on the last thread as I’ve been at work

    The first thing that Starmer did as LOTO was a field trip to John Lewis to get photographed pointing at wallpaper

    He did this to show what a bad man Johnson was for accepting a gift from a rich supporter

    The first thing he did as PM was to accept gifts from a rich supporter

    But, but, but.. FARAGE TOOK MILLIONS

    Doesn’t make me think “Oh, Starmer isn’t a hypocrite after all”

    You believe Starmer is more guilty than Johnson and Farage because you despise the man. Nevertheless the statistics don't back up your analysis.

    The Lord Ali business is not dissimilar to Daylesfordgate and the curtains. PB Tories were quite comfortable with both of those issues. Other than the Lulu Lytle comedy value that didn't particularly worry me in the way PPE and Farage's millions do.

    If you want hypocrisy look no further than Johnson's two EU letters.
    Are you still complaining about the PPE even though the inquiry found no evidence of personal gain or malfeasance among ministers. No doubt we wasted billions but I suspect that was the system, not the Tory government per se.
    I think your reading of the £10b spaffed up the wall on dodgy PPE is not entirely the conclusion reached. You would be quite rightly outraged if a Labour figure had overseen such absolute corruption. In fact three or four times each year someone hijacks a thread with Brown selling all the gold.

    Anyway, back to business. I have a £63m invisible garden bridge I believe I can sell you.
    If you have evidence of corruption why have you not reported to the police? The inquiry did not find corruption among ministers. It did criticise the fast track VIP lane, which was something Starmerv was rying to indulge in to with his list he produced in the house.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,788

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    One of the reasons PB Tories called on Starmer to resign was that he kept U turning. Bloody hypocrite.
    I’m not sure at all what you’re trying to say..

    But it did make me think that hypocrisy is a moral U turn
    is only condemning hypocrisy when it's by politicians you dislike a form of hypocrisy? *strokes beard*
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,852
    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,222
    edited 6:48PM

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    That is illegal speech, which they don't defend. And PA has lost its appeal against proscription.
    So they only take on risk free cases, and if the people involved are willing to pay the grift, sorry, FSU membership fees.

    Principled indeed.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    And their online supporters, especially the ones with red roses in their bio, are very much ‘my side right or wrong’ which just misses the bigger picture.

    In opposition they were very holier than thou and rightly criticised some poor behaviour.

    They get into power and some of them are exposed as being freeloaders as well.

    The scale doesn’t matter, it’s the conduct that’s the problem.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,788
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    And their online supporters, especially the ones with red roses in their bio, are very much ‘my side right or wrong’ which just misses the bigger picture.

    In opposition they were very holier than thou and rightly criticised some poor behaviour.

    They get into power and some of them are exposed as being freeloaders as well.

    The scale doesn’t matter, it’s the conduct that’s the problem.
    and i'm sure you'll be consistent on this line in the future the next time there is a tory scandal
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,069
    Tres said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    One of the reasons PB Tories called on Starmer to resign was that he kept U turning. Bloody hypocrite.
    I’m not sure at all what you’re trying to say..

    But it did make me think that hypocrisy is a moral U turn
    is only condemning hypocrisy when it's by politicians you dislike a form of hypocrisy? *strokes beard*
    As I’ve already stated, I’m replying to the last thread which I missed: why does everyone hate Starmer?

    I despise him because he’s a self-righteous hypocrite

    I dislike Farage, but if a defence of Starmer starts with wotaboutim, I’ll switch off
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    That is illegal speech, which they don't defend. And PA has lost its appeal against proscription.
    So they only take on risk free cases, and if the people involved are willing to pay the grift, sorry, FSU membership fees.

    Principled indeed.
    They have succesfully supported Palestine Action supporters previously.

    WTF is the point in taking on cases they are certain to lose they’re not the Good Law Project. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    I could list a great many very corrupt Labour politicians from John Stonehouse through T. Dan Smith to the Prince of Darkness himself.

    Starmer who is a useless Prime Minister has demonstrated no such corruption.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Tres said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    One of the reasons PB Tories called on Starmer to resign was that he kept U turning. Bloody hypocrite.
    I’m not sure at all what you’re trying to say..

    But it did make me think that hypocrisy is a moral U turn
    is only condemning hypocrisy when it's by politicians you dislike a form of hypocrisy? *strokes beard*
    As I’ve already stated, I’m replying to the last thread which I missed: why does everyone hate Starmer?

    I despise him because he’s a self-righteous hypocrite

    I dislike Farage, but if a defence of Starmer starts with wotaboutim, I’ll switch off
    Ironic you’re responding to someone whose response to any scandal is ‘But Farage’ 😂
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    And their online supporters, especially the ones with red roses in their bio, are very much ‘my side right or wrong’ which just misses the bigger picture.

    In opposition they were very holier than thou and rightly criticised some poor behaviour.

    They get into power and some of them are exposed as being freeloaders as well.

    The scale doesn’t matter, it’s the conduct that’s the problem.
    Of course scale matters. Following reporting rules also matter. Now I don't particularly want to bat on behalf of Starmer, but some of the people on your preferred current teams are absolute rascals.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    I could list a great many very corrupt Labour politicians from John Stonehouse through T. Dan Smith to the Prince of Darkness himself.

    Starmer who is a useless Prime Minister has demonstrated no such corruption.
    You’re deliberately conflating being a freeloader with being corrupt.

    I’ve not seen anyone say SKS or any of the the Labour snouts in the trough were corrupt.

    I’ve seen people claiming Tory ministers were corrupt over PPE even though the recent report found no such evidence.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    That is illegal speech, which they don't defend. And PA has lost its appeal against proscription.
    So they only take on risk free cases, and if the people involved are willing to pay the grift, sorry, FSU membership fees.

    Principled indeed.
    Membership is £60 a year. How much legal advice/support is that going to buy you anywhere else?
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    And their online supporters, especially the ones with red roses in their bio, are very much ‘my side right or wrong’ which just misses the bigger picture.

    In opposition they were very holier than thou and rightly criticised some poor behaviour.

    They get into power and some of them are exposed as being freeloaders as well.

    The scale doesn’t matter, it’s the conduct that’s the problem.
    Of course scale matters. Following reporting rules also matter. Now I don't particularly want to bat on behalf of Starmer, but some of the people on your preferred current teams are absolute rascals.
    Who are my supposed ‘current team’

    I’m firmly in the ‘will not vote’ camp 😂
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799
    Tres said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    One of the reasons PB Tories called on Starmer to resign was that he kept U turning. Bloody hypocrite.
    I’m not sure at all what you’re trying to say..

    But it did make me think that hypocrisy is a moral U turn
    is only condemning hypocrisy when it's by politicians you dislike a form of hypocrisy? *strokes beard*
    I hate all politicians. Does that save me from the charge of hypocrisy?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,680

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    That is illegal speech, which they don't defend. And PA has lost its appeal against proscription.
    So they only take on risk free cases, and if the people involved are willing to pay the grift, sorry, FSU membership fees.

    Principled indeed.
    If the law needs to be changed, it's better to start with parliament.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    That is illegal speech, which they don't defend. And PA has lost its appeal against proscription.
    So they only take on risk free cases, and if the people involved are willing to pay the grift, sorry, FSU membership fees.

    Principled indeed.
    Membership is £60 a year. How much legal advice/support is that going to buy you anywhere else?
    Some ‘grift’ that.

    An annual membership that’s just over a quid a week.

    They’ll be rolling in it.
  • StarryStarry Posts: 234

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    You are allowed to believe that men can be women, but I can also believe that they cannot. I think science is on my side of the argument but I also think we will never agree.
    Men and women are not scientific terms. Male and female are. Many species can switch gender. Many are hemaphrodites, and others asexual. Science does not back you up.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623
    edited 7:04PM
    Rayner to Health, apparently

    https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/2078184939409838311?s=61

    Does she know what a woman is ? Has she had a damascene conversion like James Murray ?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,799

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    Supporting their right to free speech. Along with that of their supporters. But not illegal action.

    As you would know if you actually bothered to try and read up on them rather than just making snide remarks.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623
    Starry said:

    kyf_100 said:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    Indeed. Preston Byrne (pro bono counsel to the FSU) is particularlly good on this point.

    Linehan shouldn't have been arrested for his "kick 'em in the balls" tweet (unless someone did, in fact, commit an s20 assault, in which case he is fair game as an accessory should there be a proven causal link between his tweet and the attacker).

    Speaking ill of the dead shouldn't be an offence either. It should also be remembered that Anne Widdecombe believed that trans women (at least those who have had "the op") are women, which is more than can be said for many regulars here.

    Since we're on #pbfreespeech, how do we feel about JK Rowling suing amnesty international for calling the 51 gender critical organisations listed in their recent report "anti rights" (Including an org that PB's resident terf is a member of)?

    I happen to disagree with the amnesty report and think it's massive overreach, but the correct response is rebuttal rather than trying to silence one's critics with lawfare.

    IMHO the UK needs to introduce US-style anti SLAPP legislation to prevent the super-rich from silencing their critics.
    You are allowed to believe that men can be women, but I can also believe that they cannot. I think science is on my side of the argument but I also think we will never agree.
    Men and women are not scientific terms. Male and female are. Many species can switch gender. Many are hemaphrodites, and others asexual. Science does not back you up.
    How do they switch gender ? Do they physically change through a natural biological process or do they, one morning, wake up and decide their in the wrong body and can impose their demands accordingly ?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,269
    edited 7:08PM
    Politics UK
    @PolitlcsUK
    🚨 NEW: Angela Rayner is set to become Andy Burnham’s Health Secretary

    [@Telegraph]

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2078184939409838311
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,924
    edited 7:09PM
    Wonder what the Venn Diagram is between posters certain Burnham will be an utter flop, and those who told us he couldn't find a seat, and if he did he couldn't win and that he wasn't really popular in the NW anyway?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,269
    Angela Rayner is being lined up as Andy Burnham’s health secretary to push through radical social care reforms, The Telegraph understands.

    Ms Rayner is believed to be a front-runner for the role, in what would be her political comeback.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/17/rayner-lined-up-as-burnhams-health-secretary/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 73,269
    Angela Rayner is being lined up as Andy Burnham’s health secretary to push through radical social care reforms, The Telegraph understands.

    Ms Rayner is believed to be a front-runner for the role, in what would be her political comeback.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/17/rayner-lined-up-as-burnhams-health-secretary/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,623

    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but credit to the Free Speech Union for standing by their principles

    'The Free Speech Union has said that, should Heather Herbert join the Free Speech Union, we would do our best to help him.

    Heather Herbert posted a vile and deeply offensive statement on the social media platform BlueSky about the tragic murder of Ann Widdecombe.

    The University of Aberdeen employee has now been arrested and charged over his offensive comments.

    While the Free Speech Union does not support Heather’s offensive comments about Ann — a dear late friend of the FSU — it is not an offence, no matter how offensive, to speak ill of the dead.

    Ann was a staunch defender of our fundamental right to free speech, and we very much doubt she would have supported Police Scotland’s actions.'

    And yet the arseholes couldn’t resist a snidey wee gender dig.

    What are principled Toby & co doing about supporting the ‘I support Palestine Action’ people?
    Don't think they need much support tbh - over 3,000 arrests, only about 200 charges, and zero convictions.

    The only legal representation they will need is rinsing the police/CPS for compensation - which will be extremely difficult, even though the police are arresting people knowing full well they will never get a conviction.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,611
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.

    This is pretty much where I am.

    Also 'Supermanc' is tremendous.
    Yes, it’s top drawer stuff. 👍
    Supermanc? Not a patch in WOTN.

    My take from listening to him is how actually dangerous Burnham as PM is going to be. It’s a sort of sinister moment - something feels very wrong, if this was the opening of a play you’d sense something very bad to come from a party and a country sleepwalking into this with such hubris and pseudo politics. They were actually crowing at today’s announcement how unanimous the election was. Actually crowing at the sort of anti debate anti democracy election outcome Stalin would have been proud of. Actually crowing whilst they copied the same idiotic mistake the US Democrats made, to gift the world Trump 2.0.

    Considering how incredibly weird and scary Burnamism is, what’s baffling is how there wasn’t a contest. Why didn’t the more intelligent wing of Labour put up a candidate against this? Even if Darren Jones lost - by no means certain on today’s performance from Burnham - the simple headed Union backed faction might at least had to share power with the more intelligent faction, by making Jones Chancellor?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,069
    Burnham will rule entirely in slogans
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,611
    edited 7:12PM
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.

    This is pretty much where I am.

    Also 'Supermanc' is tremendous.
    Yes, it’s top drawer stuff. 👍
    Supermanc? Not a patch on WOTN.

    My take from listening to him is how actually dangerous Burnham as PM is going to be. It’s a sort of sinister moment - something feels very wrong, if this was the opening of a play you’d sense something very bad to come from a party and a country sleepwalking into this with such hubris and pseudo politics. They were actually crowing at today’s announcement how unanimous the election was. Actually crowing at the sort of anti debate anti democracy election outcome Stalin would have been proud of. Actually crowing whilst they copied the same idiotic mistake the US Democrats made, to gift the world Trump 2.0.

    Considering how incredibly weird and scary Burnamism is, what’s baffling is how there wasn’t a contest. Why didn’t the more intelligent wing of Labour put up a candidate against this? Even if Darren Jones lost - by no means certain on today’s performance from Burnham - the simple headed Union backed faction might at least had to share power with the more intelligent faction, by making Jones Chancellor?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,153

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    FIFA President Gianni Infantino:

    “We are aware of the political message display from Argentina. We understand it’s against the rules but we also know it’s a matter of their nationality and we respect it.

    We will make a decision after the final.”

    https://x.com/FabrizioRomaxno/status/2078006000699740325?s=20

    Wut ?
    Remember how the dirty rotten cheating Argies got away with loads of stuff in the match on Wednesday?
    They are bent as hell
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,390

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    And their online supporters, especially the ones with red roses in their bio, are very much ‘my side right or wrong’ which just misses the bigger picture.

    In opposition they were very holier than thou and rightly criticised some poor behaviour.

    They get into power and some of them are exposed as being freeloaders as well.

    The scale doesn’t matter, it’s the conduct that’s the problem.
    Of course scale matters. Following reporting rules also matter. Now I don't particularly want to bat on behalf of Starmer, but some of the people on your preferred current teams are absolute rascals.
    Judge not, lest ye be judged is an excellent moral principle to hold onself to (though you will always fail- everyone does)... but like a lot of what He said, it doesn't work if you try to apply it to others in society.

    The danger is that it becomes a get-out for those caught in flagrante (delicto or not)... "You can't judge me because you're not perfect... are you a hypocrite or something?" In the practical world, scale matters, and so does attempting (or not) to follow the rules.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602
    edited 7:12PM

    Burnham will rule entirely in slogans

    Is he copying Johnson?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,611

    Burnham will rule entirely in slogans

    Is he copying Johnson?
    This is Labours Boris Johnson moment.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,924

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.

    This is pretty much where I am.

    Also 'Supermanc' is tremendous.
    Yes, it’s top drawer stuff. 👍
    Supermanc? Not a patch in WOTN.

    My take from listening to him is how actually dangerous Burnham as PM is going to be. It’s a sort of sinister moment - something feels very wrong, if this was the opening of a play you’d sense something very bad to come from a party and a country sleepwalking into this with such hubris and pseudo politics. They were actually crowing at today’s announcement how unanimous the election was. Actually crowing at the sort of anti debate anti democracy election outcome Stalin would have been proud of. Actually crowing whilst they copied the same idiotic mistake the US Democrats made, to gift the world Trump 2.0.

    Considering how incredibly weird and scary Burnamism is, what’s baffling is how there wasn’t a contest. Why didn’t the more intelligent wing of Labour put up a candidate against this? Even if Darren Jones lost - by no means certain on today’s performance from Burnham - the simple headed Union backed faction might at least had to share power with the more intelligent faction, by making Jones Chancellor?
    Outline precisely what is weird and scary?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602
    I am watching Inspector Ricciardi on Walter Presents. It is set in the 1930s and the sub stories relate to loyalty to Partito Nazionale Fascista.

    What they do and how they operate is uncannily similar to Trump's Whitehouse. They even have a secret police force which rounds up people they don't like.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 15,611

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    FIFA President Gianni Infantino:

    “We are aware of the political message display from Argentina. We understand it’s against the rules but we also know it’s a matter of their nationality and we respect it.

    We will make a decision after the final.”

    https://x.com/FabrizioRomaxno/status/2078006000699740325?s=20

    Wut ?
    Remember how the dirty rotten cheating Argies got away with loads of stuff in the match on Wednesday?
    They are bent as hell
    Wearing Poppies as remembrance for dead fallen in war is a matter of our nationality - Infantino has banned it and fines us for just one poppy.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 618

    Angela Rayner is being lined up as Andy Burnham’s health secretary to push through radical social care reforms, The Telegraph understands.

    Ms Rayner is believed to be a front-runner for the role, in what would be her political comeback.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/17/rayner-lined-up-as-burnhams-health-secretary/

    Because she solved the housing crisis so effectively.....as housing minister.....
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623

    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    My thoughts on the coming of Supermanc:

    He has been chosen for persona/electoral not policy reasons. People with their own agendas will say he has to go this way or that way but he doesn't. He simply (although it's no simple matter) has to generate/sustain a clear poll lead for Labour. If he does this he will have delivered his side of the bargain.

    But I hope he is more than this. Specifically that in addition to waxing lyrical about improving the morale/prospects of struggling working class communities (ten a penny talk from all sides of politics) he actually does (big) things in that vein. Levelling up in other words. For real not as a platitude (tory) or tied up with white identity politics (reform).

    A more accurate description for levelling up, if it's going to be for real, is a significant reduction in inequalities of wealth, income and opportunity. Savvy pols on the left (which AB is) avoid that phrasing because it acknowledges there are losers and thus invites a load of superficially appealing 'rising tide lifts all boats' waffle in response.

    I'm not blindly optimistic (money is tight and powerful forces will oppose him if he's serious) but I do feel energised and positive. Let's see how it pans out.

    This is pretty much where I am.

    Also 'Supermanc' is tremendous.
    Yes, it’s top drawer stuff. 👍
    Supermanc? Not a patch on WOTN.

    My take from listening to him is how actually dangerous Burnham as PM is going to be. It’s a sort of sinister moment - something feels very wrong, if this was the opening of a play you’d sense something very bad to come from a party and a country sleepwalking into this with such hubris and pseudo politics. They were actually crowing at today’s announcement how unanimous the election was. Actually crowing at the sort of anti debate anti democracy election outcome Stalin would have been proud of. Actually crowing whilst they copied the same idiotic mistake the US Democrats made, to gift the world Trump 2.0.

    Considering how incredibly weird and scary Burnamism is, what’s baffling is how there wasn’t a contest. Why didn’t the more intelligent wing of Labour put up a candidate against this? Even if Darren Jones lost - by no means certain on today’s performance from Burnham - the simple headed Union backed faction might at least had to share power with the more intelligent faction, by making Jones Chancellor?
    Eh, I just liked the appellation ‘Supermanc’

    A derivation of Supermac.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,623
    scampi25 said:

    Angela Rayner is being lined up as Andy Burnham’s health secretary to push through radical social care reforms, The Telegraph understands.

    Ms Rayner is believed to be a front-runner for the role, in what would be her political comeback.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/07/17/rayner-lined-up-as-burnhams-health-secretary/

    Because she solved the housing crisis so effectively.....as housing minister.....
    Falling upwards
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,400
    dixiedean said:

    Wonder what the Venn Diagram is between posters certain Burnham will be an utter flop, and those who told us he couldn't find a seat, and if he did he couldn't win and that he wasn't really popular in the NW anyway?

    Just number 2 for me. And hands up i was totally wrong. I do wonder how close a run thing it was for Josh Simons making the decision.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,602
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    People hate a hypocrite

    People really fucking despise a moralising, holier-than-thou hypocrite

    SKS and Angela Rayner to name two.
    I always tend to believe that Labour politicians assume they are the good guys, on the right side of history etc and that when they take a freebie it's ok because they are the good guys. But woe betide a story for taking a freebie.
    And their online supporters, especially the ones with red roses in their bio, are very much ‘my side right or wrong’ which just misses the bigger picture.

    In opposition they were very holier than thou and rightly criticised some poor behaviour.

    They get into power and some of them are exposed as being freeloaders as well.

    The scale doesn’t matter, it’s the conduct that’s the problem.
    Of course scale matters. Following reporting rules also matter. Now I don't particularly want to bat on behalf of Starmer, but some of the people on your preferred current teams are absolute rascals.
    Who are my supposed ‘current team’

    I’m firmly in the ‘will not vote’ camp 😂
    I don't know, but I know who it isn't. I am pleased you are so cool about the £10b on PPE. To me, cock up or conspiracy it's a f*****' disgrace. That's my money they pissed up a rope.
Sign In or Register to comment.