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What will Count Binface’s vote share in Clacton be? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,246
edited 6:33AM in General
What will Count Binface’s vote share in Clacton be? – politicalbetting.com

Whilst I find Count Binface amusing and interesting I think some political punters and analysts have been out in the sun too much which explains the prices in this market from Ladbrokes.

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Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390
    First
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    On topic:

    I think he will save his deposit, but if he does much more than that, Farage should take that as a massive slap in the face. Anything over 10% would probably be fatal for Farage's career.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486
    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,594
    edited 6:50AM
    Yep. Reform’s excellent polling numbers have been as much a function of differential turnout predictions as anything else. As the Conservatives and Labour have become a bit more attractive again among their own supporters, Reform’s share has naturally declined.

    Binface is great fun but I can’t see him (them?) driving the turnout required to bin Farage, even if you tot the other shares up from the last election. Not convinced that the demographic that resides in Clacton has the same impish sense of humour that exists elsewhere.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,672
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    So very funny? 😁
    I love suggestively shaped vegetables and fruit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,512
    Farage will likely win but Binface could get less than 20%. The interesting thing will be if he beats Lawrence Fox or not
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,659
    ydoethur said:

    On topic:

    I think he will save his deposit, but if he does much more than that, Farage should take that as a massive slap in the face. Anything over 10% would probably be fatal for Farage's career.

    If so, a totally unforeseen consequence of a totally unnecessary by-election, and perhaps a very good outcome for the country.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,512
    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390
    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    So very funny? 😁
    It’s a Blackadder line !!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,659
    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    So very funny? 😁
    I love suggestively shaped vegetables and fruit.
    That's rather a rude way to the current Mrs Eagles equivalent.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,414
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    Yes. I was thinking low thirties to Farage's mid 50s, but actually with the numbers saying neither to who would you want to win Clacton, I don't think he'll drive turnout quite that much.

    So, high 20s is a number I can agree with now, but let's have the full candidate list before finalising that one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    So very funny? 😁
    It’s a Blackadder line !!
    Yes, I know.

    It was a cunning plan to try and subvert the conversation.

    Clearly you found it about as funny as getting an arrow through the neck and then finding there's a gas bill tied to it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,753
    Taz said:

    ydoethur said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    So very funny? 😁
    It’s a Blackadder line !!
    Quoting Blackadder, also .. mildly amusing ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    Yes. I was thinking low thirties to Farage's mid 50s, but actually with the numbers saying neither to who would you want to win Clacton, I don't think he'll drive turnout quite that much.

    So, high 20s is a number I can agree with now, but let's have the full candidate list before finalising that one.
    Turnout is another number to watch. If it's 15% or below, that's also very damaging to Farage.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    Is anyone here saying that Binface himself is funny?

    As opposed to Farage engineering a situation where he's going to have to spend a month arguing with a bloke with a bin on his head for zero benefit?

    Comedy is largely about context.
    Timing

    The gag doesn’t work here !!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486
    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    Yes. I was thinking low thirties to Farage's mid 50s, but actually with the numbers saying neither to who would you want to win Clacton, I don't think he'll drive turnout quite that much.

    So, high 20s is a number I can agree with now, but let's have the full candidate list before finalising that one.
    Turnout is another number to watch. If it's 15% or below, that's also very damaging to Farage.
    Even 25-30% turnout with him winning half of that is hardly a ringing endorsement. He's really dug a hole for himself.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,654
    Eabhal said:

    Yep. Reform’s excellent polling numbers have been as much a function of differential turnout predictions as anything else. As the Conservatives and Labour have become a bit more attractive again among their own supporters, Reform’s share has naturally declined.

    Binface is great fun but I can’t see him (them?) driving the turnout required to bin Farage, even if you tot the other shares up from the last election. Not convinced that the demographic that resides in Clacton has the same impish sense of humour that exists elsewhere.

    Perhaps they don't want to be represented in parliament by a meme. Maybe Farage isn't such a total deadloss as an MP. Who knows?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,593
    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,453
    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    edited 7:12AM
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    Yes. I was thinking low thirties to Farage's mid 50s, but actually with the numbers saying neither to who would you want to win Clacton, I don't think he'll drive turnout quite that much.

    So, high 20s is a number I can agree with now, but let's have the full candidate list before finalising that one.
    Turnout is another number to watch. If it's 15% or below, that's also very damaging to Farage.
    Even 25-30% turnout with him winning half of that is hardly a ringing endorsement. He's really dug a hole for himself.
    But if it's the lowest turnout since WW2, then he can't claim the electors of Clacton have given him a mandate so the enquiry can be stopped. Which is clearly his plan.

    He obviously also hoped that if he held the by-election and won, it would neuter a recall petition, and even if it were successful he could campaign on 'which part of "we've just re-elected him did you not get"?'

    Unfortunately for him, it appears to be backfiring already, but turnout at a record low would make everything much worse. For a start, it would call into question his ability to engage with voters who have lost trust in politics.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,594
    edited 7:12AM

    Eabhal said:

    Yep. Reform’s excellent polling numbers have been as much a function of differential turnout predictions as anything else. As the Conservatives and Labour have become a bit more attractive again among their own supporters, Reform’s share has naturally declined.

    Binface is great fun but I can’t see him (them?) driving the turnout required to bin Farage, even if you tot the other shares up from the last election. Not convinced that the demographic that resides in Clacton has the same impish sense of humour that exists elsewhere.

    Perhaps they don't want to be represented in parliament by a meme. Maybe Farage isn't such a total deadloss as an MP. Who knows?
    Or maybe they’re waiting for the outcome of the investigation and will make an informed decision at the possible second by-election?

    If someone does know, please speak up because we have bets to place.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,092
    Incidentally, there's a Pathfinder 2 Humble Bundle up at the moment. Weighing up whether to get it. Probably value, but between current and next campaigns it'd likely be years before I used it (and the excellent Archives of Nethys has all the rules for free).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058

    Eabhal said:

    Yep. Reform’s excellent polling numbers have been as much a function of differential turnout predictions as anything else. As the Conservatives and Labour have become a bit more attractive again among their own supporters, Reform’s share has naturally declined.

    Binface is great fun but I can’t see him (them?) driving the turnout required to bin Farage, even if you tot the other shares up from the last election. Not convinced that the demographic that resides in Clacton has the same impish sense of humour that exists elsewhere.

    Perhaps they don't want to be represented in parliament by a meme. Maybe Farage isn't such a total deadloss as an MP. Who knows?
    If he weren't a total dead loss as an MP, he'd spend more time in his constituency.

    The greatest irony of this by-election is it means he'll have to spend most of the summer there rather than lecturing in America to make money.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,453
    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    The Grim Reaper is sadly having a busy week.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486
    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    Does that apply in Scotland too?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,092
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    Yep. Reform’s excellent polling numbers have been as much a function of differential turnout predictions as anything else. As the Conservatives and Labour have become a bit more attractive again among their own supporters, Reform’s share has naturally declined.

    Binface is great fun but I can’t see him (them?) driving the turnout required to bin Farage, even if you tot the other shares up from the last election. Not convinced that the demographic that resides in Clacton has the same impish sense of humour that exists elsewhere.

    Perhaps they don't want to be represented in parliament by a meme. Maybe Farage isn't such a total deadloss as an MP. Who knows?
    If he weren't a total dead loss as an MP, he'd spend more time in his constituency.

    The greatest irony of this by-election is it means he'll have to spend most of the summer there rather than lecturing in America to make money.
    At least he's fighting heroically for democracy against the Establishment/arguing in an election he voluntarily created against a man with a bin on his head.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,204
    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    I’m sure you can think of colleagues whose obituaries you would read with great pleasure.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,594
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    Yes. I was thinking low thirties to Farage's mid 50s, but actually with the numbers saying neither to who would you want to win Clacton, I don't think he'll drive turnout quite that much.

    So, high 20s is a number I can agree with now, but let's have the full candidate list before finalising that one.
    Turnout is another number to watch. If it's 15% or below, that's also very damaging to Farage.
    Even 25-30% turnout with him winning half of that is hardly a ringing endorsement. He's really dug a hole for himself.
    But if it's the lowest turnout since WW2, then he can't claim the electors of Clacton have given him a mandate so the enquiry can be stopped. Which is clearly his plan.

    He obviously also hoped that if he held the by-election and won, it would neuter a recall petition, and even if it were successful he could campaign on 'which part of "we've just re-elected him did you not get"?'

    Unfortunately for him, it appears to be backfiring already, but turnout at a record low would make everything much worse. For a start, it would call into question his ability to engage with voters who have lost trust in politics.
    A second by-election must be highly likely, assuming the investigation concludes a section 10 breach. Only need 8,000 signatures.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    Indeed, and the image of Farage on a stage with a fox, a fishfinger and a bin is worth looking forward to but if those opposed to Farage want real impact they need to choose one from this myriad of relative stars and it appears that in this case that is going to be the bin.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,672
    edited 7:21AM
    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    You really should call it a cape because that would mean you're just like Batman, you both wear capes and fight for justice.

    But drink lots of water today.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,798

    Incidentally, there's a Pathfinder 2 Humble Bundle up at the moment. Weighing up whether to get it. Probably value, but between current and next campaigns it'd likely be years before I used it (and the excellent Archives of Nethys has all the rules for free).

    I'm happy to say that I have no idea what you are talking about.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,314
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    Yes. I was thinking low thirties to Farage's mid 50s, but actually with the numbers saying neither to who would you want to win Clacton, I don't think he'll drive turnout quite that much.

    So, high 20s is a number I can agree with now, but let's have the full candidate list before finalising that one.
    Turnout is another number to watch. If it's 15% or below, that's also very damaging to Farage.
    Even 25-30% turnout with him winning half of that is hardly a ringing endorsement. He's really dug a hole for himself.
    But if it's the lowest turnout since WW2, then he can't claim the electors of Clacton have given him a mandate so the enquiry can be stopped. Which is clearly his plan.

    He obviously also hoped that if he held the by-election and won, it would neuter a recall petition, and even if it were successful he could campaign on 'which part of "we've just re-elected him did you not get"?'

    Unfortunately for him, it appears to be backfiring already, but turnout at a record low would make everything much worse. For a start, it would call into question his ability to engage with voters who have lost trust in politics.
    He can, and he will, and those who want to believe him will believe him.

    (And yes, the converse is true for implacable opponents of Farage.)
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390
    edited 7:23AM

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    You really should call it a cape because that would mean you're just like Batman, you both wear capes and fight for justice.

    But drink lots of water today.
    As did the third Dr Who
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    You really should call it a cape because that would mean you're just like Batman, you both wear capes and fight for justice.

    But drink lots of water today.
    There was a fabulous email from a grateful complainer to one of my colleagues earlier this summer which said "not all heroes wear capes. Some wear gowns." Made us all feel good about ourselves for at least 10 minutes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,512
    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    The Grim Reaper is sadly having a busy week.
    Sadly most of them under 80 in their 60s or 70s too
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,753
    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,876
    1,600 Russians not reporting for duty in Ukraine today (a very high number) and likewise 58 artillery pieces.

    Also of note, 4 bits of anti-aircraft kit no longer stopping drones/missiles slamming into refineries....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    I’m sure you can think of colleagues whose obituaries you would read with great pleasure.
    No, I am far too nice to think thoughts like that :wink:
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390

    Bloke dressed as a bin, not funny.

    Farage contesting an election against a bloke dressed as a bin, funny.

    Reform damaging their chances in Greater Manchester due to Farage triggering a by-election, hilarious.

    It just shows they’re amateurs failing to focus on what’s important

    Farage is such a narcissistic fool
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 2,115
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    Is anyone here saying that Binface himself is funny?

    As opposed to Farage engineering a situation where he's going to have to spend a month arguing with a bloke with a bin on his head for zero benefit?

    Comedy is largely about context.
    Timing

    The gag doesn’t work here !!
    I reckon it would have done had you stored this post on your clipboard somewhere then posted it three threads later.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,593
    edited 7:25AM
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    Indeed, and the image of Farage on a stage with a fox, a fishfinger and a bin is worth looking forward to but if those opposed to Farage want real impact they need to choose one from this myriad of relative stars and it appears that in this case that is going to be the bin.
    As per the header, I am sceptical about Binface’s prospects. A more serious politician who has some actual GOTV activities on the day would be a better bet.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,798
    With all of these heat related excess deaths, time to scrap the winter fuel allowance and use the money to install A/C in residential care homes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,486
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    Does that apply in Scotland too?
    Not as bad as south of the border but it is going to get pretty warm (by Scottish standards) this week. I'm in Edinburgh today and its warm already, if more than a bit overcast.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,753
    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    That's not likely to be a factor in NZ at the moment, though ?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    And lots of other people too. I have been mildly shocked by the additional mortality caused by the heat. We may well have another couple of thousand excess deaths this week (hopefully not including any of those who have to wear horse hair on their heads, waistcoat, tails and a court gown in this heat).
    Does that apply in Scotland too?
    Not as bad as south of the border but it is going to get pretty warm (by Scottish standards) this week. I'm in Edinburgh today and its warm already, if more than a bit overcast.
    I meant the dress style!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,659

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    The NOTA vote split to allow Mr Farage to sneak through the middle.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390
    maxh said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    Is anyone here saying that Binface himself is funny?

    As opposed to Farage engineering a situation where he's going to have to spend a month arguing with a bloke with a bin on his head for zero benefit?

    Comedy is largely about context.
    Timing

    The gag doesn’t work here !!
    I reckon it would have done had you stored this post on your clipboard somewhere then posted it three threads later.
    Superb

    Chefs kiss there !!!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,876
    If at one of these by-elections, Farage were to fail to get elected, would he take his Reform ball home in a huff?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,987
    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,453
    edited 7:34AM

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    Indeed, and the image of Farage on a stage with a fox, a fishfinger and a bin is worth looking forward to but if those opposed to Farage want real impact they need to choose one from this myriad of relative stars and it appears that in this case that is going to be the bin.
    As per the header, I am sceptical about Binface’s prospects. A more serious politician who has some actual GOTV activities on the day would be a better bet.
    Is he actually going to Clacton to campaign, rather than doing a load of interviews on TV in London?

    It’s 86 minutes from Liverpool St to Clacton on the train.

    Will activists from other parties turn up to help Binface, or will that be frowned upon?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,730
    The funniest result of this by-election would be Farage losing.

    The second funniest would be him winning with 90% on something close to normal by-election turnout.

    I think the former is marginally more likely than the latter.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,314
    Taz said:

    Bloke dressed as a bin, not funny.

    Farage contesting an election against a bloke dressed as a bin, funny.

    Reform damaging their chances in Greater Manchester due to Farage triggering a by-election, hilarious.

    It just shows they’re amateurs failing to focus on what’s important

    Farage is such a narcissistic fool
    Hardly a fool. From a purely personal point of view, he's made it to Westminster, flattered his ego far more than he would have as an edgy Conservative backbencher and made a humongous pile of money.

    But he is a narcissist. I doubt that he gives much more of a stuff for ex-industrial townspeople then he does for fishermen.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,943
    edited 7:37AM
    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    Agreed about Binface. The wild card for me is how well Restore will do. They appeal to same set of voters as Farage, are actual fascists rather than adjacent ones, have a very well organised and motivated base as shown in Makerfield, and are untroubled by bribery and money laundering issues. The conditions are there to do very well in Clacton. But will they?
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,730
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
    They didn't have any real chance in the GM Mayoral election anyway because it's SV and everyone knows Labour will be in the top 2.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    Driver said:

    The funniest result of this by-election would be Farage losing.

    The second funniest would be him winning with 90% on something close to normal by-election turnout.

    I think the former is marginally more likely than the latter.

    Normal by-election turnout in August? That seems a bit improbable on its own.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,659

    With all of these heat related excess deaths, time to scrap the winter fuel allowance and use the money to install A/C in residential care homes.

    We hear many complaints about us oldies hogging too much of the national resources, but every time there's a natural event that sees off oldies more than others, there are suggestions as to how nature can be thwarted.

    Gives one hope for human nature.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    Agreed about Binface. The wild card for me is how well Restore will do. They appeal to same set of voters as Farage, are actual fascists rather than adjacent ones, have a very well organised and motivated base as shown in Makerfield, and are untroubled by bribery and money laundering issues. In theory they should do very well in Clacton. But will they?
    No, because they're not standing.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjdg4y3g0z7o
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,730
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    Agreed about Binface. The wild card for me is how well Restore will do. They appeal to same set of voters as Farage, are actual fascists rather than adjacent ones, have a very well organised and motivated base as shown in Makerfield, and are untroubled by bribery and money laundering issues. In theory they should do very well in Clacton. But will they?
    They aren't standing, so no.

    IIRC they were the first to say they wouldn't stand.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,314
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    Indeed, and the image of Farage on a stage with a fox, a fishfinger and a bin is worth looking forward to but if those opposed to Farage want real impact they need to choose one from this myriad of relative stars and it appears that in this case that is going to be the bin.
    As per the header, I am sceptical about Binface’s prospects. A more serious politician who has some actual GOTV activities on the day would be a better bet.
    Is he actually going to Clacton to campaign, rather than doing a load of interviews on TV in London?

    It’s 86 minutes from Liverpool St to Clacton on the train.
    Binface or Farage or both?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,441
    edited 7:36AM
    Why 23.5%?
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,675
    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sam Neil of Jurassic Park fame has died aged 78

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/crl1gk55rzet

    Lots of well-known people passing away lately.
    The Grim Reaper is sadly having a busy week.
    Probably no busier than usual, but he (she/it?) seems to be favouring those with high social media profiles.

    Time to close down that Facebook account?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,058
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    Indeed, and the image of Farage on a stage with a fox, a fishfinger and a bin is worth looking forward to but if those opposed to Farage want real impact they need to choose one from this myriad of relative stars and it appears that in this case that is going to be the bin.
    As per the header, I am sceptical about Binface’s prospects. A more serious politician who has some actual GOTV activities on the day would be a better bet.
    Is he actually going to Clacton to campaign, rather than doing a load of interviews on TV in London?

    It’s 86 minutes from Liverpool St to Clacton on the train.

    Will activists from other parties turn up to help Binface, or will that be frowned upon?
    Paradoxically, even if they do, that would not be good news for him because it would feed into Farage's narrative that Harvey is an establishment stooge.

    I mean,he's no more (and in some quite crucial respects, rather less) of an establishment stooge than Farage, but it's not about the truth. If truth mattered, Farage would be a fat pub bore somewhere in Esher just about to start another day as a mid-ranking and not very successful stockbroker. It's about the narrative, and one thing Farage is very good at is constructing narratives.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,987
    edited 7:41AM
    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Yep. Reform’s excellent polling numbers have been as much a function of differential turnout predictions as anything else. As the Conservatives and Labour have become a bit more attractive again among their own supporters, Reform’s share has naturally declined.

    Binface is great fun but I can’t see him (them?) driving the turnout required to bin Farage, even if you tot the other shares up from the last election. Not convinced that the demographic that resides in Clacton has the same impish sense of humour that exists elsewhere.

    Perhaps they don't want to be represented in parliament by a meme. Maybe Farage isn't such a total deadloss as an MP. Who knows?
    Or maybe they’re waiting for the outcome of the investigation and will make an informed decision at the possible second by-election?

    If someone does know, please speak up because we have bets to place.
    I think that Binface is about media narratives, and Farage potentially losing his camouflage - to which so far they have pandered.

    Farage has jumped into a swamp of his own volition, and he has not yet found a way out.

    If media seriously start digging into the Man of the People (all that time spent in London clubs, and servicing people oligarchs around the world rather than his constituents). Strangely, the character with a mismatched narrative it reminds me of is perhaps Chukka Umunna - who had some coverage of his social life in clubs around self-regarding people with money in London.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,753

    Why 23.5%?

    It's approximately half the combined percentage of the vote that Lab/Con/Lib/Green got at the last election.
    Other than that, I've no idea.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,204
    Driver said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
    They didn't have any real chance in the GM Mayoral election anyway because it's SV and everyone knows Labour will be in the top 2.
    Though I had read on here that Burnham swapping horses had scuppered Labour chances in the GM mayoral election. Funny old game..
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,593
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
    Norfolk PCC by-election IIRC.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,802
    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    My guess is this:

    For most people in Clacton to vote for Binface involves a multi stage argument, obvious to anoraks and irony fans but not to most people. These are the hurdles to Binface getting a large vote:

    1) Farage is going to win so there is no point in voting in a pointless election
    2) The other parties have said in effect this is a non event; voters believe it
    3) Binface is an idiot, which is fine but not worth getting out of bed for
    4) There is no candidate, if you oppose Farage, ordinary people actually want to see as their MP, especially Binface. Voting for an idiot to oppose an idiot is not politics
    5) Most people don't do irony. This might work in Cambridge or Hampstead. A white knight may have worked in Clacton but I doubt it.

    Conclusion: low turnout, big % win on small vote. Farage win. Binface 10-15%.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,314

    Driver said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
    They didn't have any real chance in the GM Mayoral election anyway because it's SV and everyone knows Labour will be in the top 2.
    Though I had read on here that Burnham swapping horses had scuppered Labour chances in the GM mayoral election. Funny old game..
    Could have been a problem had he stood in G+D; then the system for the by-election would still have been FPTP. And whilst the change of system was already in the pipeline, the optics of the system changing after the vacancy would have been terrible.

    Which is why Burnham was a selfish idiot for making such a fuss about wanting to stand in G+D.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,730
    ydoethur said:

    Driver said:

    The funniest result of this by-election would be Farage losing.

    The second funniest would be him winning with 90% on something close to normal by-election turnout.

    I think the former is marginally more likely than the latter.

    Normal by-election turnout in August? That seems a bit improbable on its own.
    Exactly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,753
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    My guess is this:

    For most people in Clacton to vote for Binface involves a multi stage argument, obvious to anoraks and irony fans but not to most people. These are the hurdles to Binface getting a large vote:

    1) Farage is going to win so there is no point in voting in a pointless election
    2) The other parties have said in effect this is a non event; voters believe it
    3) Binface is an idiot, which is fine but not worth getting out of bed for
    4) There is no candidate, if you oppose Farage, ordinary people actually want to see as their MP, especially Binface. Voting for an idiot to oppose an idiot is not politics
    5) Most people don't do irony. This might work in Cambridge or Hampstead. A white knight may have worked in Clacton but I doubt it.

    Conclusion: low turnout, big % win on small vote. Farage win. Binface 10-15%.
    I'd guess it depends how many locals dislike Farage enough to make the effort to register a vote against him.
    A low turnout is likely; if (for example) Farage backers are twice as likely to vote as Farage haters, then the 23.5% is bang on the money.

    It's guesswork based on not a lot of data, though.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,943
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Taz said:

    Count Binface certainly appeals to the sort of people who still think Have I Got News for You is cutting edge.

    Personally I think he’s as funny as a vegetable that’s grown into a rude and amusing shape

    My sides are usually intact when I hear him speak but that is really not the point. The point is he is not Nigel Farage and therefore a relative good. I would certainly vote for him in this constituency at this time but it doesn't have much to do with any personal merits he may have. I think a fair percentage of the electorate who can be bothered to vote will feel the same but not enough to win. I am guessing he ends up in the high twenties as a percentage.
    They could vote for Rejoin EU, or the Climate Party, or Reclaim, or the guy dressed as a fox, or the guy dressed as a fish finger, or the former reality TV star, etc. There’s gonna be a lot of candidates.
    Indeed, and the image of Farage on a stage with a fox, a fishfinger and a bin is worth looking forward to but if those opposed to Farage want real impact they need to choose one from this myriad of relative stars and it appears that in this case that is going to be the bin.
    As per the header, I am sceptical about Binface’s prospects. A more serious politician who has some actual GOTV activities on the day would be a better bet.
    Is he actually going to Clacton to campaign, rather than doing a load of interviews on TV in London?

    It’s 86 minutes from Liverpool St to Clacton on the train.

    Will activists from other parties turn up to help Binface, or will that be frowned upon?
    Paradoxically, even if they do, that would not be good news for him because it would feed into Farage's narrative that Harvey is an establishment stooge.

    I mean,he's no more (and in some quite crucial respects, rather less) of an establishment stooge than Farage, but it's not about the truth. If truth mattered, Farage would be a fat pub bore somewhere in Esher just about to start another day as a mid-ranking and not very successful stockbroker. It's about the narrative, and one thing Farage is very good at is constructing narratives.
    Narratives is where Farage has met his match I think, and why on this particular point it doesn't matter that Binface isn't funny. Farage can claim to be the serious candidate against Binface and have his claim accepted by the kind of people who vote for him (of which there are many in Clacton).

    He can't simultaneously claim to be the anti-establishment candidate when he's up against someone with a bin on his head without looking ridiculous. Yet the narrative he chose to fight this unnecessary election on its that the establishment is out to get him on his generous gifts.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,730

    Driver said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
    They didn't have any real chance in the GM Mayoral election anyway because it's SV and everyone knows Labour will be in the top 2.
    Though I had read on here that Burnham swapping horses had scuppered Labour chances in the GM mayoral election. Funny old game..
    All sorts of things are said on here. Some of them even have some relationship to reality.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,109
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    My guess is this:

    For most people in Clacton to vote for Binface involves a multi stage argument, obvious to anoraks and irony fans but not to most people. These are the hurdles to Binface getting a large vote:

    1) Farage is going to win so there is no point in voting in a pointless election
    2) The other parties have said in effect this is a non event; voters believe it
    3) Binface is an idiot, which is fine but not worth getting out of bed for
    4) There is no candidate, if you oppose Farage, ordinary people actually want to see as their MP, especially Binface. Voting for an idiot to oppose an idiot is not politics
    5) Most people don't do irony. This might work in Cambridge or Hampstead. A white knight may have worked in Clacton but I doubt it.

    Conclusion: low turnout, big % win on small vote. Farage win. Binface 10-15%.
    Personally I'm questioning how British the people of Clacton are if most don't understand irony.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390
    Ratters said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    My guess is this:

    For most people in Clacton to vote for Binface involves a multi stage argument, obvious to anoraks and irony fans but not to most people. These are the hurdles to Binface getting a large vote:

    1) Farage is going to win so there is no point in voting in a pointless election
    2) The other parties have said in effect this is a non event; voters believe it
    3) Binface is an idiot, which is fine but not worth getting out of bed for
    4) There is no candidate, if you oppose Farage, ordinary people actually want to see as their MP, especially Binface. Voting for an idiot to oppose an idiot is not politics
    5) Most people don't do irony. This might work in Cambridge or Hampstead. A white knight may have worked in Clacton but I doubt it.

    Conclusion: low turnout, big % win on small vote. Farage win. Binface 10-15%.
    Personally I'm questioning how British the people of Clacton are if most don't understand irony.
    It’s something like Bronzey and Tinny.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,802
    Ratters said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    My guess is this:

    For most people in Clacton to vote for Binface involves a multi stage argument, obvious to anoraks and irony fans but not to most people. These are the hurdles to Binface getting a large vote:

    1) Farage is going to win so there is no point in voting in a pointless election
    2) The other parties have said in effect this is a non event; voters believe it
    3) Binface is an idiot, which is fine but not worth getting out of bed for
    4) There is no candidate, if you oppose Farage, ordinary people actually want to see as their MP, especially Binface. Voting for an idiot to oppose an idiot is not politics
    5) Most people don't do irony. This might work in Cambridge or Hampstead. A white knight may have worked in Clacton but I doubt it.

    Conclusion: low turnout, big % win on small vote. Farage win. Binface 10-15%.
    Personally I'm questioning how British the people of Clacton are if most don't understand irony.
    Movers, shakers and talking heads do irony. The majority British quality is different. Self deprecation, which is different.

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,594

    Driver said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    I reckon about 50% Farage, 35% Binface, and 15% others, on a small turnout.

    Which is a really terrible look for the winner, having spent the summer arguing with a man with a bin on his head.

    I'm wondering if Farage might be largely absent, but I think he has no option - the potential downside is too great for him to leave it alone.

    Do we have any other Mayoral or other elections due, as afaics Ref UK are redirecting their Manchester Mayoral activists - 'now is the time for all good men to come the aid of their party."? What will the impact be?
    They didn't have any real chance in the GM Mayoral election anyway because it's SV and everyone knows Labour will be in the top 2.
    Though I had read on here that Burnham swapping horses had scuppered Labour chances in the GM mayoral election. Funny old game..
    The “Buy-to-let Empress” was going to sweep to victory on the back of immense business acumen.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,453
    edited 8:00AM

    1,600 Russians not reporting for duty in Ukraine today (a very high number) and likewise 58 artillery pieces.

    Also of note, 4 bits of anti-aircraft kit no longer stopping drones/missiles slamming into refineries....

    Also 90 vessels removed from the Sea of Azov in the past week.

    https://x.com/jalle51/status/2076287160341213508

    The Sea is now almost totally empty of ships, although as with the Straight of Hormuz there might be a few out there with transponders off.

    Rumours around that “that” bridge might be about to become a target, as there’s now no air defences left around it.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2076271000019226945
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,802
    Nigelb said:

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    My guess is this:

    For most people in Clacton to vote for Binface involves a multi stage argument, obvious to anoraks and irony fans but not to most people. These are the hurdles to Binface getting a large vote:

    1) Farage is going to win so there is no point in voting in a pointless election
    2) The other parties have said in effect this is a non event; voters believe it
    3) Binface is an idiot, which is fine but not worth getting out of bed for
    4) There is no candidate, if you oppose Farage, ordinary people actually want to see as their MP, especially Binface. Voting for an idiot to oppose an idiot is not politics
    5) Most people don't do irony. This might work in Cambridge or Hampstead. A white knight may have worked in Clacton but I doubt it.

    Conclusion: low turnout, big % win on small vote. Farage win. Binface 10-15%.
    I'd guess it depends how many locals dislike Farage enough to make the effort to register a vote against him.
    A low turnout is likely; if (for example) Farage backers are twice as likely to vote as Farage haters, then the 23.5% is bang on the money.

    It's guesswork based on not a lot of data, though.
    Because there is no serious opposition my own view is that turnout will be low, but the Farage % will be very high, which will give him a figure to publicise. Possible: Turnout 40%. Farage 75-80%. This is not a prediction! DYOR.

    I would be delighted to be wrong. It's not a market I am entering.

  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,894
    edited 8:01AM
    ydoethur said:

    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    It's a genuinely difficult one to predict.
    While joke candidates very rarely indeed get a significant vote, they aren\t usually the main challenger and getting national publicity.
    It's not as though every one in Clacton loves Farage; only around half of those who turned out last time voted for him.

    How many of those who wouldn't vote for his this tome either will bother to vote ?

    I think the odds in the header might be around the mark. It seems a coin toss - or at least enough of one for me not to be tempted by TSE's tip.

    Agreed about Binface. The wild card for me is how well Restore will do. They appeal to same set of voters as Farage, are actual fascists rather than adjacent ones, have a very well organised and motivated base as shown in Makerfield, and are untroubled by bribery and money laundering issues. In theory they should do very well in Clacton. But will they?
    No, because they're not standing.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjdg4y3g0z7o
    The only wild-card factor I can think of is adjacent to this point. What about the "Restore-most" cohort of Farage voters? (I choose not to say "right-most" as I think that's the wrong axis, and right-wing views don't *have* to coincide with Faragiste populism, whatever the current useless right-of-centre positioning may be). Could they be sufficiently furious with Farage to stay at home? That could be a significant chunk of voters.

    I fully expect Farage to get north of 70% of the vote in this non-election; but that 23.5% is not totally unassailable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,288
    Am I alone in finding Farage a total arse *and* Binface a bit of thin joke?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,987
    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Is Farage suggesting MPs now need 24 hour protection ?

    It comes as no surprise that he would use Widdecombes murder to try and deflect from his grifting .

    If he loses, will he change his tune to ex-MPs need 24 hour protection?
    There clearly is some risk to ex-MPs, but what about prominent political spokespeople who are not MP's like Polanski or Goodwin? Or even celebrities who have made controversial statements like Lineker?

    Maybe we need to tone down the vitriol on Social Media, and for the police to take threats on it seriously.
    I certainly agree that as a country we need to greatly tone down the way we speak to each other online. Even PB is not completely immune. The usual social norms are much reduced online with anonymity and remoteness and it coarsens the conversation. It is one of the reasons that I personally chose a fairly readily identifiable name on here. It makes me pause when I am tempted to publish something offensive (most of the time).

    Whether the police should be taking this vitriol more seriously I am less sure about. It seems to me that we already have quite a lot of prosecutions for racist, sexist and abusive comments online and we sometimes seem to take this more seriously than actual violence. We need to be careful about protecting freedom of speech which includes the right (but not the obligation) to be obnoxious.
    I think the core point here is for a sea change in our contemporary politics such that driving division is no longer a fruitful strategy for significant parties.

    I'd agree that the nature and unrestraint of social media are factors, but that is amongst many others.

    One I think we have not picked up is that we are at a potential era-defining point - as 1945 or 1979, and that we are due an updated answer to more philosophical questions such as "What is the raison d'etre of our society?"
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,894

    Am I alone in finding Farage a total arse *and* Binface a bit of thin joke?

    No, you are not alone. Binface is a bit of a thin joke, marginally enlivening by-elections. Much the same proposition as Lord Sutch (without His Heavy Friends) but with a *slightly* more satirical edge. The character occupies much the same comedy space as any "topical news quiz".
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,894
    MattW said:

    DavidL said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Is Farage suggesting MPs now need 24 hour protection ?

    It comes as no surprise that he would use Widdecombes murder to try and deflect from his grifting .

    If he loses, will he change his tune to ex-MPs need 24 hour protection?
    There clearly is some risk to ex-MPs, but what about prominent political spokespeople who are not MP's like Polanski or Goodwin? Or even celebrities who have made controversial statements like Lineker?

    Maybe we need to tone down the vitriol on Social Media, and for the police to take threats on it seriously.
    I certainly agree that as a country we need to greatly tone down the way we speak to each other online. Even PB is not completely immune. The usual social norms are much reduced online with anonymity and remoteness and it coarsens the conversation. It is one of the reasons that I personally chose a fairly readily identifiable name on here. It makes me pause when I am tempted to publish something offensive (most of the time).

    Whether the police should be taking this vitriol more seriously I am less sure about. It seems to me that we already have quite a lot of prosecutions for racist, sexist and abusive comments online and we sometimes seem to take this more seriously than actual violence. We need to be careful about protecting freedom of speech which includes the right (but not the obligation) to be obnoxious.
    I think the core point here is for a sea change in our contemporary politics such that driving division is no longer a fruitful strategy for significant parties.

    I'd agree that the nature and unrestraint of social media are factors, but that is amongst many others.

    One I think we have not picked up is that we are at a potential era-defining point - as 1945 or 1979, and that we are due an updated answer to more philosophical questions such as "What is the raison d'etre of our society?"
    Which requires the media, and the politicians, to get off their lazy backsides and start thinking. Because you can think as much as you like in an academic post, or in a forum, and it will have damn all impact on the public at large. Politicians can only answer the questions they are asked, and a soundbite from a speech cannot communicate a sophisticated idea (alone).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,719
    edited 8:11AM
    I expect Farage to win comfortably, but both the size of his vote and his majority are hard to predict because of the circumstances of the by-election. Of course the Farage/Reform devotees will turn out. But a lot of more casual Farage voters may think: hang on a minute, we elected you just two years ago to serve a full parliamentary term, so why are you making us do it again?
    Farage's answer to that is not very convincing.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,288
    mwadams said:

    Am I alone in finding Farage a total arse *and* Binface a bit of thin joke?

    No, you are not alone. Binface is a bit of a thin joke, marginally enlivening by-elections. Much the same proposition as Lord Sutch (without His Heavy Friends) but with a *slightly* more satirical edge. The character occupies much the same comedy space as any "topical news quiz".
    It seems rather light political satire. Lord Sutch was better at the comic aspects.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,453
    mwadams said:

    Am I alone in finding Farage a total arse *and* Binface a bit of thin joke?

    No, you are not alone. Binface is a bit of a thin joke, marginally enlivening by-elections. Much the same proposition as Lord Sutch (without His Heavy Friends) but with a *slightly* more satirical edge. The character occupies much the same comedy space as any "topical news quiz".
    The really funny bit, as others have said, is that Farage is now stuck with having to run a by-election against only the bin and no serious candidates, which to a great extent brings Farage down to that level.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 15,675
    mwadams said:

    Am I alone in finding Farage a total arse *and* Binface a bit of thin joke?

    No, you are not alone. Binface is a bit of a thin joke, marginally enlivening by-elections. Much the same proposition as Lord Sutch (without His Heavy Friends) but with a *slightly* more satirical edge. The character occupies much the same comedy space as any "topical news quiz".
    Yes, if he were funnier or had a shred of political sense he'd be in with a shout, but he seems to be nothing more than an attention-seeker with a sub-Beano comedy act. He'll struggle to make 20%, even against Farage.
  • TazTaz Posts: 29,390

    Am I alone in finding Farage a total arse *and* Binface a bit of thin joke?

    No

    I find them both insufferable fuckwits
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,903
    I think Count Binface will do well to save his deposit.

    As I understand it, no joke candidate has ever saved their deposit in a Westminster Parliamentary election.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,987
    edited 8:20AM
    Sandpit said:

    1,600 Russians not reporting for duty in Ukraine today (a very high number) and likewise 58 artillery pieces.

    Also of note, 4 bits of anti-aircraft kit no longer stopping drones/missiles slamming into refineries....

    Also 90 vessels removed from the Sea of Azov in the past week.

    https://x.com/jalle51/status/2076287160341213508

    The Sea is now almost totally empty of ships, although as with the Straight of Hormuz there might be a few out there with transponders off.

    Rumours around that “that” bridge might be about to become a target, as there’s now no air defences left around it.

    https://x.com/warmonitor3/status/2076271000019226945
    As I see it, and need to remind myself, the strategy here is to interrupt the use of rivers for ships internal to Russia - something that does not happen in the UK as we do not really have serious rivers. European mainlanders will have a natural appreciation for this.

    Ships of around 5000-6000 tons can reach Moscow from the Sea of Azov, via the Don, then eventually via the "Moscow Canal". And the Don carries about 25 million barrels of oil going the other way for export each year - which is small but not negligible in the scheme of things..
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