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Are John Rentoul and Dan Hodges right? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,225
edited 3:41AM in General
Are John Rentoul and Dan Hodges right? – politicalbetting.com

There was the Makerfield by-election which the national polls indicated should be an easy Reform gain yet there’s not a Labour poilitician that appears to blunt Reform.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,830
    Did John Rentoul and Dan Hodges say it would go to penalties? If so, they were right. If not, thread timing is poor.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,241
    This penalty shootout is one for the ages.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,241
    Morocco!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,830
    European teams are not doing as well as one might have expected. Too hot in America? It is due to get worse next week.

    We must hope for a Brexit benefit.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,241

    Did John Rentoul and Dan Hodges say it would go to penalties? If so, they were right. If not, thread timing is poor.

    I had to publish it now as I've been up all day and I have to go to bed.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,830
    I had the last three winners in a yankee. Unfortunately, being greedy, I took the better odds in the 90-minute market where penalty wins are draws.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,830
    Betfair has £5 at 25+ available on the header tip Lee Anderson to be next Reform leader, though it might be a bet on whoever Nigel Farage recommends to the membership.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,659
    Sandpit said:

    So who had Paraguay and Morocco knocking out Germany and the Netherlands?

    That side of the draw now looks much more open.

    Earlier today, I found myself dancing with a Panamanian American insurance agent (it was work), who was supporting Paraguay, on the basis that Paraguay and Panama sound kinda similar, and they're both vaguely Central American.

    I explained that I would simply support whoever was playing Germany. Unless it was Argentina.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,659
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who had Paraguay and Morocco knocking out Germany and the Netherlands?

    That side of the draw now looks much more open.

    Earlier today, I found myself dancing with a Panamanian American insurance agent (it was work), who was supporting Paraguay, on the basis that Paraguay and Panama sound kinda similar, and they're both vaguely Central American.

    I explained that I would simply support whoever was playing Germany. Unless it was Argentina.
    Hmmm... I see on reflection that Paraguay is very definitely South America.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,830
    From a Telegraph interview with Jon Culshaw:-

    Worst part of being an impressionist?

    People in interviews asking, “Is there anybody you can’t do?” You get it every single time. It’s always asked as if it’s never been asked before. The answer is David Cameron, because there’s a generic poshness to him, he’s a little entitled, and feels like someone who doesn’t want to be there.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comedy/what-to-see/best-and-worst-jon-culshaw/ (£££)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820
    edited 5:21AM
    Agent Anderson is an interesting idea, though I am not sure how well it would hold together if he won, as it would change it from "minigarchs, munchkins, and manipulators" to something else - and I'm not sure what it would be.

    I can't see Tice being happy in such circumstances.

    Anderson is in to about 9s on BFX.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,984

    From a Telegraph interview with Jon Culshaw:-

    Worst part of being an impressionist?

    People in interviews asking, “Is there anybody you can’t do?” You get it every single time. It’s always asked as if it’s never been asked before. The answer is David Cameron, because there’s a generic poshness to him, he’s a little entitled, and feels like someone who doesn’t want to be there.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/comedy/what-to-see/best-and-worst-jon-culshaw/ (£££)

    Not ‘Do your Frank Spencer’

    Being asked to perform on command.
  • Now this has appeared I feel I can comment. I have heard it said the significant figures in the Tory Party would prefer the GE to be delayed until May 2027 when they expect Reform to be led by Lee Anderson not Nigel Farage. Having said that they do not expect Farage to survive an election campaign even in October but fear that such an onslaught as will happen if he is still Reform leader at the GE would deflect scrutiny away from the Labour Party whoever is leading it.

    With Labour we have a different issue, AB's election expenses haven't even been filed yet. When they are they are bound to be front page news and there are six months from election day to file a complaint. I find it hard to believe there won't be an application for a writ of undue election, probably emanating from Lancashire rather than Greater Manchester. Lancashire Police have an honorable track record of taking complaints seriously unlike many other forces.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 8,011
    I’ve only just heard about No Job For A Lady (early 90s sitcom starring Penelope Keith as a Labour MP)

    I m definitely going to watch it
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,777
    'Are John Rentoul and Dan Hodges right?' - Yes.

    'I have often wondered if deep down Nigel Farage really wants to be Prime Minister, it would feel like too much hard work and he prefers to carp from the sidelines yet becoming Prime Minister would allow him to reshape the country in his own image.'

    I have been absolutely sure for a wee while now that Nigel Farage does not want to be Prime Minister and simple because it would feel like too much hard work to have to become a full time 24/7 politician leading a party and the country with all the responsibility that comes with that position with and for what I now suspect for him would be a very underwhelming annual salary that would dwarf what he is now earning outside politics as an MP and party Leader at Westminster.

    Farage is far more comfortable being an Opposition politician and leader carping from the sidelines part time at Reform rallies addressing the party faithful or on his GB News show unapposed by awkward scrutiny and questioning. Trying to reshape the country in his own image would take too much hard work and more importantly serious detailed policy which on the evidence of the last couple of years is not where he or his party shines.

    I have never seen Farage outside his own various opposition party vehicles/fiefdoms being someone who would then settle down to the hard daily grind and graft of detailed governing of a country when he cannot even now devote himself to the full time job of being a party leader and MP at Westminster. The very fact he is now under incredible media scrutiny due to the £5M gift he accepted back in early 2024 and still arrogantly refusing to accept why it should be of such media/public interest or worthy of some tough questioning from the media suggests this is a hypocritical politician who would not thrive in No 10 being under constant scrutiny and tough questioning on his delivery rather than his comfort zone of using protesting tough single issue soundbite rehetoric from the sidelines.

    The interesting question is what would happen to Reform in a post Farage era in Opposition in the longer term if Andy Burnham decides to play it long and does not go for an early snap GE with a resurgent Conservative party under Kemi Badenoch and with Rupert Lowe's Restore party mopping up disaffected Reform members as others head back to the Conservatives?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820
    edited 6:05AM
    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,284

    I’ve only just heard about No Job For A Lady (early 90s sitcom starring Penelope Keith as a Labour MP)

    I m definitely going to watch it

    I vaguely remember it. It was no Yes Minister or The thick of it. My recollection is that the writing rather let it down. But I’d be interested to know if you thought differently.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,949
    He doesn't.

    If you remember, he pretty much did all he could to stop Vote Leave winning too during the referendum.

    Being in charge or responsible terrifies him.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,242
    Backing Ivory Coast and laying Norway this evening, I think they should be closer in the betting than they are.

    Ivory Coast
    £39.50
    Draw
    £2.00
    Norway
    -£24.64


    Draw onside because well can quite possibly see it going to ET.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,228
    Ukraine now has an interceptor drone with a range of at least 84.7km.

    https://x.com/letsarmukr/status/2071605588635590999

    This is a quadcopter that looks like a hobby drone, with upgraded radio and battery, flown by a pilot 55 miles away!
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,560
    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    The EqA was passed under Brown and then implemented after the election under Cameron. I remember at the time talk of whether they would implement it or just leave it on the statute book like the Easter Act.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,316

    Now this has appeared I feel I can comment. I have heard it said the significant figures in the Tory Party would prefer the GE to be delayed until May 2027 when they expect Reform to be led by Lee Anderson not Nigel Farage. Having said that they do not expect Farage to survive an election campaign even in October but fear that such an onslaught as will happen if he is still Reform leader at the GE would deflect scrutiny away from the Labour Party whoever is leading it.

    With Labour we have a different issue, AB's election expenses haven't even been filed yet. When they are they are bound to be front page news and there are six months from election day to file a complaint. I find it hard to believe there won't be an application for a writ of undue election, probably emanating from Lancashire rather than Greater Manchester. Lancashire Police have an honorable track record of taking complaints seriously unlike many other forces.

    The odds of Andy Burnham overspending money is zero.

    I suspect you are looking at people and thinking they cost money, volunteers know they won’t get expenses and pay their own money to be there
  • eekeek Posts: 34,316

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.
    The reason why HS2 started in London is because the biggest issues are in the London to Birmingham bit - capacity is required between Euston and Milton Keynes / Hemel..
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 29,069
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.
    The reason why HS2 started in London is because the biggest issues are in the London to Birmingham bit - capacity is required between Euston and Milton Keynes / Hemel..
    So nothing to do with the North then.

    Got it.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,550
    I think the most likely scenario for Farage, he's actually VERY consistent...will be that he will "step back" in 2027, and when a GE is called he will return and messiah Version 4 or is it 5. That's his DNA .

    The Right are hopelessly fracturing at the moment and for all what Burnham isn't what he IS , is an incredibly shrewd "politicial" and "tactician!.

    Farage is losi interest, Lowe is gaining traction and then there is Kemi, god i almost feel sorry for her, the classic rabbit in the headlights.

    She will work with NO-ONE , not Farage not Lowe. No one will work with her, not Farage, Jenrick, Lowe.

    She drifts right right right in to a political cul de sac with narrowing bandwith.

    She attacks Burnhams speech, before he speaks, and simply looks desperately LOST.

    The biggest problem she has is this.

    IF she canot quickly realise the fact that the Right Wing Pool is full .

    There will be millions of centre ground voters, many Tories in the Midlands / North / Scotland and Wales who cannot stand Farage, aren;t in the same parish as Lowe, hated Starmer, who suddently have someone they can vote for with the sole aim of stopping Farage and Lowe.

    That ain;t Kemi.....it;s BURNHAM!
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,984
    fitalass said:

    'Are John Rentoul and Dan Hodges right?' - Yes.

    'I have often wondered if deep down Nigel Farage really wants to be Prime Minister, it would feel like too much hard work and he prefers to carp from the sidelines yet becoming Prime Minister would allow him to reshape the country in his own image.'

    I have been absolutely sure for a wee while now that Nigel Farage does not want to be Prime Minister and simple because it would feel like too much hard work to have to become a full time 24/7 politician leading a party and the country with all the responsibility that comes with that position with and for what I now suspect for him would be a very underwhelming annual salary that would dwarf what he is now earning outside politics as an MP and party Leader at Westminster.

    Farage is far more comfortable being an Opposition politician and leader carping from the sidelines part time at Reform rallies addressing the party faithful or on his GB News show unapposed by awkward scrutiny and questioning. Trying to reshape the country in his own image would take too much hard work and more importantly serious detailed policy which on the evidence of the last couple of years is not where he or his party shines.

    I have never seen Farage outside his own various opposition party vehicles/fiefdoms being someone who would then settle down to the hard daily grind and graft of detailed governing of a country when he cannot even now devote himself to the full time job of being a party leader and MP at Westminster. The very fact he is now under incredible media scrutiny due to the £5M gift he accepted back in early 2024 and still arrogantly refusing to accept why it should be of such media/public interest or worthy of some tough questioning from the media suggests this is a hypocritical politician who would not thrive in No 10 being under constant scrutiny and tough questioning on his delivery rather than his comfort zone of using protesting tough single issue soundbite rehetoric from the sidelines.

    The interesting question is what would happen to Reform in a post Farage era in Opposition in the longer term if Andy Burnham decides to play it long and does not go for an early snap GE with a resurgent Conservative party under Kemi Badenoch and with Rupert Lowe's Restore party mopping up disaffected Reform members as others head back to the Conservatives?

    Although I’m no Cassandra I have said the same about Farage

    He’s a disruptor. He snipes from the sidelines. Has he ever had any real,responsibility.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,228
    edited 6:34AM

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.

    Only a Southerner could think that what the North is desperately crying out for is another line in London.
    The root of the problem is congestion south of Birmingham on the WCML, which was the reasoning for doing the London to Birmingham section first.

    But yes the whole project has been a mess from start to, well clearly not finish, and the Northern routes now need to be prioritised, alongside upgrades of the E-W lines from Liverpool through Manchester to Sheffield and Leeds. Train travel in the North of England is a disjointed mess.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,984
    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,692

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.

    Only a Southerner could think that what the North is desperately crying out for is another line in London.
    Off his trolley for sure , total nutter.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,772
    Morning all :)

    Out then go Germany and the Netherlands and this tournament starts to bubble along nicely. I'm on France to prevail - yes, I know, remember Agincourt, Crecy, Waterloo, Euston etc, etc.

    On topic, Reform is and has never been just about Farage - all he has done is successfully articulate the often incoherent anger and frustrations of those who feel "the system" has failed them and the country. Now, whether that's because of perceptions about immigration, the economy, the British identity, our place in the world or a whole range of other gripes and whinges, I'm not sure but as long as the causes of the anger remain, that anger will find expression somewhere by someone somehow and that could be Anderson or Lowe or A.N Other.

    What I found interesting about yesterday is both Burnham and Badenoch spoke and while the policies were very different as you might expect, the target audience was much the same - those who had formerly backed Labour or the Conservatives and were now with Reform. Faragists will claim it'stwo bald men fighting over a comb but I look at the Amber Valley question and I come back to it.

    What will be the more important thing for the Amber Valley voter in 2029 - stopping a Labour Government or stopping a Reform Government?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,161
    Taz said:

    fitalass said:

    'Are John Rentoul and Dan Hodges right?' - Yes.

    'I have often wondered if deep down Nigel Farage really wants to be Prime Minister, it would feel like too much hard work and he prefers to carp from the sidelines yet becoming Prime Minister would allow him to reshape the country in his own image.'

    I have been absolutely sure for a wee while now that Nigel Farage does not want to be Prime Minister and simple because it would feel like too much hard work to have to become a full time 24/7 politician leading a party and the country with all the responsibility that comes with that position with and for what I now suspect for him would be a very underwhelming annual salary that would dwarf what he is now earning outside politics as an MP and party Leader at Westminster.

    Farage is far more comfortable being an Opposition politician and leader carping from the sidelines part time at Reform rallies addressing the party faithful or on his GB News show unapposed by awkward scrutiny and questioning. Trying to reshape the country in his own image would take too much hard work and more importantly serious detailed policy which on the evidence of the last couple of years is not where he or his party shines.

    I have never seen Farage outside his own various opposition party vehicles/fiefdoms being someone who would then settle down to the hard daily grind and graft of detailed governing of a country when he cannot even now devote himself to the full time job of being a party leader and MP at Westminster. The very fact he is now under incredible media scrutiny due to the £5M gift he accepted back in early 2024 and still arrogantly refusing to accept why it should be of such media/public interest or worthy of some tough questioning from the media suggests this is a hypocritical politician who would not thrive in No 10 being under constant scrutiny and tough questioning on his delivery rather than his comfort zone of using protesting tough single issue soundbite rehetoric from the sidelines.

    The interesting question is what would happen to Reform in a post Farage era in Opposition in the longer term if Andy Burnham decides to play it long and does not go for an early snap GE with a resurgent Conservative party under Kemi Badenoch and with Rupert Lowe's Restore party mopping up disaffected Reform members as others head back to the Conservatives?

    Although I’m no Cassandra I have said the same about Farage

    He’s a disruptor. He snipes from the sidelines. Has he ever had any real,responsibility.
    Stanley Baldwin had something to say about people who wanted power with responsibility, and he was right.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,588
    Rupert Lowe seems to be a natural leader. From that point of view, he's head & shoulders above anyone else on our political scene at the moment. That was a problem for Mr Farage and it'll be a problem for all the other parties. It's no wonder if he's gaining support from Reform voters. The issue will be, as the policies announced by Restore get wider, will they gain support from other parties' voters. They might well.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,374
    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,374

    Taz said:

    fitalass said:

    'Are John Rentoul and Dan Hodges right?' - Yes.

    'I have often wondered if deep down Nigel Farage really wants to be Prime Minister, it would feel like too much hard work and he prefers to carp from the sidelines yet becoming Prime Minister would allow him to reshape the country in his own image.'

    I have been absolutely sure for a wee while now that Nigel Farage does not want to be Prime Minister and simple because it would feel like too much hard work to have to become a full time 24/7 politician leading a party and the country with all the responsibility that comes with that position with and for what I now suspect for him would be a very underwhelming annual salary that would dwarf what he is now earning outside politics as an MP and party Leader at Westminster.

    Farage is far more comfortable being an Opposition politician and leader carping from the sidelines part time at Reform rallies addressing the party faithful or on his GB News show unapposed by awkward scrutiny and questioning. Trying to reshape the country in his own image would take too much hard work and more importantly serious detailed policy which on the evidence of the last couple of years is not where he or his party shines.

    I have never seen Farage outside his own various opposition party vehicles/fiefdoms being someone who would then settle down to the hard daily grind and graft of detailed governing of a country when he cannot even now devote himself to the full time job of being a party leader and MP at Westminster. The very fact he is now under incredible media scrutiny due to the £5M gift he accepted back in early 2024 and still arrogantly refusing to accept why it should be of such media/public interest or worthy of some tough questioning from the media suggests this is a hypocritical politician who would not thrive in No 10 being under constant scrutiny and tough questioning on his delivery rather than his comfort zone of using protesting tough single issue soundbite rehetoric from the sidelines.

    The interesting question is what would happen to Reform in a post Farage era in Opposition in the longer term if Andy Burnham decides to play it long and does not go for an early snap GE with a resurgent Conservative party under Kemi Badenoch and with Rupert Lowe's Restore party mopping up disaffected Reform members as others head back to the Conservatives?

    Although I’m no Cassandra I have said the same about Farage

    He’s a disruptor. He snipes from the sidelines. Has he ever had any real,responsibility.
    Stanley Baldwin had something to say about people who wanted power with responsibility, and he was right.
    Haven't we stopped denigrating sex workers these days ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,542
    Good morning

    Burnham certainly has charisma and is collegiate but doesn't seem to understand that being PM is far more complex than being a mayor

    He is not coming under any scrutiny, apparently avoiding any press questions until he is appointed and then what happens when his responsibilities tie him to London and Parliament

    He should get a honeymoon but he is not the Messiah as some seem to think

    The Andy v Kemi show will be very interesting as she continues to take labour full on much to the angst of labour supporters and as to Reform our son surprised us yesterday when he said he has been very impressed with Kemi and has become disenchanted with Reform and will vote conservative now

    Lots of debate ahead but it cannot be good for democracy that Burnham will not actually appear at the dispatch box until September and then after a couple of weeks Parliament closes for conference season

    Todays you gov

    https://x.com/i/status/2071839346873774497


  • TazTaz Posts: 28,984
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,863
    AnneJGP said:

    Rupert Lowe seems to be a natural leader. From that point of view, he's head & shoulders above anyone else on our political scene at the moment. That was a problem for Mr Farage and it'll be a problem for all the other parties. It's no wonder if he's gaining support from Reform voters. The issue will be, as the policies announced by Restore get wider, will they gain support from other parties' voters. They might well.

    I really don't think so. 7% in a constituency with a history of sizable BNP votes, where they had thrown all the resources they could possibly muster does not suggest they're going to be troubling the scorers when it comes to a general election.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,949
    Well, that's all the Axis powers out of the World Cup now then.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820
    edited 7:01AM
    A very interesting 10 minute video ("Letters from an American") by Heather Cox-Richardson how political language is changing. She does one of these most days, and is a specialist in the historical periods that Trump's movement idolises.

    She's reflecting on the language being used by Talarico in Texas - "A New Language of Politics" - around asserting the inclusive and multicultural nature of Texan society and culture.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO75H_sSnO4

    I think - if Andy B has a decent comms adviser - we will something similar here. I've already been calling the current far right "Traitors to British values" for some time in different fora, and there are plenty of points to apply pressure .
  • boulayboulay Posts: 9,124
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    I see that Dale Vince has come out strongly against Miliband’s policies, I was actually surprised as I thought they would be his cup of tea but interesting to see criticism from someone who is a big environment/green business man who has been a Labour donor.

    https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-15939083/Ed-Miliband-accused-wasting-colossal-money-eco-tycoon-says-Energy-Secretarys-department-broken-term-net-zero-scrapped.html
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,588
    edited 7:01AM

    AnneJGP said:

    Rupert Lowe seems to be a natural leader. From that point of view, he's head & shoulders above anyone else on our political scene at the moment. That was a problem for Mr Farage and it'll be a problem for all the other parties. It's no wonder if he's gaining support from Reform voters. The issue will be, as the policies announced by Restore get wider, will they gain support from other parties' voters. They might well.

    I really don't think so. 7% in a constituency with a history of sizable BNP votes, where they had thrown all the resources they could possibly muster does not suggest they're going to be troubling the scorers when it comes to a general election.
    I'm not so sure. I saw a piece about Restore's economic policies a few days ago. It talks about overspending by my generation leaving following generations with an immense burden and how that can be redressed. How practical it is I've no idea, but it needs to be said and so far no other party is saying it.

    Edit typo.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,863
    edited 7:03AM
    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Rupert Lowe seems to be a natural leader. From that point of view, he's head & shoulders above anyone else on our political scene at the moment. That was a problem for Mr Farage and it'll be a problem for all the other parties. It's no wonder if he's gaining support from Reform voters. The issue will be, as the policies announced by Restore get wider, will they gain support from other parties' voters. They might well.

    I really don't think so. 7% in a constituency with a history of sizable BNP votes, where they had thrown all the resources they could possibly muster does not suggest they're going to be troubling the scorers when it comes to a general election.
    I'm not so sure. I saw a piece about Restore's economic policies a few days ago. It talks about overspending by my generation leaving following generations with an immense burden and how that can be redressed. How practical it is I've no idea, but it needs to be said an so far no other party is saying it.
    That's certainly a programme with potential cut through. The problem is that as far as Restore are concerned it would be drowned out by their voter repellent repatriation policies.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,692

    Well, that's all the Axis powers out of the World Cup now then.

    Colonial powers next
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,337

    AnneJGP said:

    Rupert Lowe seems to be a natural leader. From that point of view, he's head & shoulders above anyone else on our political scene at the moment. That was a problem for Mr Farage and it'll be a problem for all the other parties. It's no wonder if he's gaining support from Reform voters. The issue will be, as the policies announced by Restore get wider, will they gain support from other parties' voters. They might well.

    I really don't think so. 7% in a constituency with a history of sizable BNP votes, where they had thrown all the resources they could possibly muster does not suggest they're going to be troubling the scorers when it comes to a general election.
    Rupert Lowe does well on X, but in real life he seems rather stupid (as with the rower misidentification incident) and he’s under investigation by a Parliamentary watchdog.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,949
    malcolmg said:

    Well, that's all the Axis powers out of the World Cup now then.

    Colonial powers next
    Both Panama and the failed colonial power, Scotland, are now out of the World Cup.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 64,039
    malcolmg said:

    Well, that's all the Axis powers out of the World Cup now then.

    Colonial powers next
    is it confirmed Scotland are out?

    Good morning, my fellow patriotic Britons. Silverstone could be toasty.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,949

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.

    Only a Southerner could think that what the North is desperately crying out for is another line in London.
    It was originally for the North, that's why it was planned to go to Manchester and Leeds. The fact it's been cut back is a travesty, but you can't just represent it as a London thing. It was intended to provide a fast spine right up the whole country to deliver better economic integration for the Midlands and the North.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,295
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    Estimates suggest that renewables are roughly at parity with oil and gas for jobs, ~ 150000 each. Though some classifications of "green jobs" put them much higher.
    It's only going one way, Graham is backing the wrong horse.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820
    edited 7:12AM
    DougSeal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    The EqA was passed under Brown and then implemented after the election under Cameron. I remember at the time talk of whether they would implement it or just leave it on the statute book like the Easter Act.
    Cameron did something of a bodge - aiui there were certain things that were restricted, and at least one thing left unimplemented that was implemented in Scotland and Wales, which some on PB will agree with and some disagree so I won't rabbit-hole it here. The decline of Legal Aid has been a real problem in this arena - it is unusual for someone to be able to take legal action themselves, but a University Professor is confident and can afford it.

    The inability for a third party to take legal action makes it difficult as a) Disabled people tend to be poorer and £500 is a lot, plus there are many extra expenses, b) Imagine someone with a mental disability having to go through the Court process, c) Councils are often happier spending more money on lawyers and straight bats than it would cost to fix a problem.

    If i needed to take legal action, i would need to find a disabled person who was blocked to deal with a barrier, then mentor them through the legal process, and enforcement once the Council caved - which they tend to do at the door of the Court.

    To my eye, we need some approaches like consumer law, such as the RNIB being able to make a "super complaint", rather than purely case-by-case.

    * "rabbit-hole" is now a verb, too.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,374
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    As I said, a challenge from the left.
    I hope she wins.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,068
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    I've just noticed Miliband down at 1.62 to be Chancellor.

    I don't think it should be understated that Miliband is the same generation as Burnham. They were in government together at a similar time, and were in shadow government together too.

    Given how important the Chancellor role is and how they become tied to the PM in a way other cabinet jobs don't, that personal connection may sway things.

    The same could apply to Cooper, who seems a more cautious choice. I don't get the impression Burnham wants to go for caution.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,337
    https://www.wuky.org/wuky-news/2026-06-29/lexington-church-going-viral-for-mock-execution-of-the-devil-in-childrens-skit

    Video of a Vacation Bible School dramatization in Lexington's Mt. Olivet Baptist Church has gone viral, drawing objections over its violent imagery.

    In the video, children in the pews watch and cheer as mock commandos take aim at a figure at front of the church — a representation of the devil, according to church leaders — and open fire, all while Pastor Dewayne Walker leads a chant of "take him out, blow him up."
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,588

    AnneJGP said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Rupert Lowe seems to be a natural leader. From that point of view, he's head & shoulders above anyone else on our political scene at the moment. That was a problem for Mr Farage and it'll be a problem for all the other parties. It's no wonder if he's gaining support from Reform voters. The issue will be, as the policies announced by Restore get wider, will they gain support from other parties' voters. They might well.

    I really don't think so. 7% in a constituency with a history of sizable BNP votes, where they had thrown all the resources they could possibly muster does not suggest they're going to be troubling the scorers when it comes to a general election.
    I'm not so sure. I saw a piece about Restore's economic policies a few days ago. It talks about overspending by my generation leaving following generations with an immense burden and how that can be redressed. How practical it is I've no idea, but it needs to be said an so far no other party is saying it.
    That's certainly a programme with potential cut through. The problem is that as far as Restore are concerned it would be drowned out by their voter repellent repatriation policies.
    Not sure whether that's a comforting thought or a blindfold.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,023
    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,287
    MattW said:

    A very interesting 10 minute video ("Letters from an American") by Heather Cox-Richardson how political language is changing. She does one of these most days, and is a specialist in the historical periods that Trump's movement idolises.

    She's reflecting on the language being used by Talarico in Texas - "A New Language of Politics" - around asserting the inclusive and multicultural nature of Texan society and culture.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO75H_sSnO4

    I think - if Andy B has a decent comms adviser - we will something similar here. I've already been calling the current far right "Traitors to British values" for some time in different fora, and there are plenty of points to apply pressure .

    I would have thought a decent comms adviser would tell him to steer clear of divisive rhetoric like that. His speech yesterday was notably free of partisan attacks.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    Estimates suggest that renewables are roughly at parity with oil and gas for jobs, ~ 150000 each. Though some classifications of "green jobs" put them much higher.
    It's only going one way, Graham is backing the wrong horse.
    I used to see that around nuclear when I was a member of MSF whilst working in Telecomms.

    The Union is there to protect its members, so I would expect Graham to defend oil/gas, whilst also promoting Green alternatives.

    Personally, my basic view is eking out what remains of existing NS oil/gas fields , whilst not actively drilling for new ones, as I think renewables will probably cover that first. I think Miliband should concede that due to chaged geopolitics and cutting off the opposition on this question.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,772
    edited 7:18AM
    The other thing we are now learning is Labour and Conservatives have finally stopped feeling sorry for themselves and are starting to do some thinking.

    Badenoch's play seems to be "common sense" - now, I commented on this yesterday and it will sell well until people ask where that common sense was when there was a Government of which she was a senior member. The second problem will be when the detailed Conservative policies come out and all the intended welfare cuts stop looking like common sense.

    Burnham has retailiated with what some are calling "Manchesterism" (I don't know either). As a firm believer in devolution and decentralisation, there's a lot to like about the rhetoric but people will soon ask about the costs of having two No.10 operations and all the other aspects of twin centre Government paraphenalia including the environmental impact of travelling from Manchester to London to attend the Commons.

    Indeed, both "plans" seem to have some pretty huge flaws but at least there's some thinking going on and that should rattle Reform and Restore a little.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 48,138
    malcolmg said:

    Well, that's all the Axis powers out of the World Cup now then.

    Colonial powers next
    Aka slaver nations.
    Though if the gammons are to be believed they're all African.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,491

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,161

    https://www.wuky.org/wuky-news/2026-06-29/lexington-church-going-viral-for-mock-execution-of-the-devil-in-childrens-skit

    Video of a Vacation Bible School dramatization in Lexington's Mt. Olivet Baptist Church has gone viral, drawing objections over its violent imagery.

    In the video, children in the pews watch and cheer as mock commandos take aim at a figure at front of the church — a representation of the devil, according to church leaders — and open fire, all while Pastor Dewayne Walker leads a chant of "take him out, blow him up."

    There's a very similar crowd scene in most Passion plays, except it's not the devil who gets taken out.

    Whatever one thinks of what the Bible tells us about God, what it says about Man is very on-the-nail.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,374
    edited 7:24AM
    Ratters said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    I've just noticed Miliband down at 1.62 to be Chancellor.

    I don't think it should be understated that Miliband is the same generation as Burnham. They were in government together at a similar time, and were in shadow government together too..
    The Chancellor decision will be his first test.
    I'd be inclined to regard choosing Miliband as a fail.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,358
    Without Farage the Reform vote would likely collapse. Zia Yusuf as leader would likely see Restore squeeze their vote heavily and Lee Anderson as leader would likely leak significantly to the Tories. However even against Burnham Labour Farage's Reform are still relatively resilient, only squeezed a little and still only a point or two behind
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,290

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.

    Only a Southerner could think that what the North is desperately crying out for is another line in London.
    It was originally for the North, that's why it was planned to go to Manchester and Leeds. The fact it's been cut back is a travesty, but you can't just represent it as a London thing. It was intended to provide a fast spine right up the whole country to deliver better economic integration for the Midlands and the North.
    How much would HS2 have to cost before you conceded that cutting it back was not a "travesty"? From the tone of your comment it would be a lot more than the £100bn just for Euston (possibly) to East Birmingham alone, that is about £1 billion per mile.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,358
    YouGov / Sky / Times voting intention

    RefUK 24%(-1),
    CON 20%(nc),
    LAB 20%(+2),
    LDEM 13%(-1),
    GRN 13%(-2)

    https://x.com/SamCoatesSky/status/2071824454154424752?s=20
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,491
    edited 7:31AM
    I’ll be very impressed if Burnham achieves even 20% of what he has set out so far. The reaction from the Establishment has been predictably histrionic - must be quite a shock coming from Starmer’s implicit attitude to the North.

    Just imagine if we get equal investment across the country. Council housing. Move No 10 to Manchester. Nodal energy pricing. A flat property tax. Even a reform to Barnett would be welcome, given its bizarre incentives (eg a falling population is a good thing for per capita spending).
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,772
    HYUFD said:

    Without Farage the Reform vote would likely collapse. Zia Yusuf as leader would likely see Restore squeeze their vote heavily and Lee Anderson as leader would likely leak significantly to the Tories. However even against Burnham Labour Farage's Reform are still relatively resilient, only squeezed a little and still only a point or two behind

    I presume you have some evidence for the first part of this or is it just some hopecasting from the Conservative side?

    Since Reform is made up of both ex-Conservative and ex-Labour voters (as well as those who had previously not voted), it seems reasonable to suppose were their vote to fragment, it would go several ways including to Labour, Restore and Will Not Vote rather than going en bloc to the Conservatives.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,786
    Couple of comments to correct errors on the previous thread, having done a rapid catchup:

    1) To amend the US constitution you need 38 states not 34. Or, you need a constitutional convention called by 34 states (which I think is where the confusion arose). I'll file both under 'not happening.'

    2) If the Prime Minister chooses not to live in Chequers, that does not mean it can be randomly palmed off to somebody else. Under the terms of the bequest, the next in line would be the Chancellor, then the Foreign Secretary, then the Colonial Secretary (defunct) then the US Ambassador, then the Minister for Agriculture - only then to 'a Secretary of State'.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/7-8/55/schedule/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.

    Only a Southerner could think that what the North is desperately crying out for is another line in London.
    It was originally for the North, that's why it was planned to go to Manchester and Leeds. The fact it's been cut back is a travesty, but you can't just represent it as a London thing. It was intended to provide a fast spine right up the whole country to deliver better economic integration for the Midlands and the North.
    And we know how that turned out. Sunak ran away from the project when it was convenient, then travelled to Manchester and solemnly stabbed most of the country in the front.

    More interestingly, I think what Andy B needs to establish is something which means that Civil Service culture be established across the country (especially England). My modus operandi would be to look at establishing significant setups in clusters of cities (eg Nottm / Derby / Leicester, Liverpool / Manc, Leeds / Bradford), such that long-term stays for parts of careers are possible in those places.

    I think the risk is making it resilient to Captain Cavemen Conservative doing their "blindly cut everything in sight" thing. We need the Conservatives to get over their USA-obsession, and realise that European-style society is a better and more efficient option. It remains to be seen whether the USA having become a banana republic will cure them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,228
    edited 7:31AM
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    I think at this point it would have been cheaper and faster to have bored a tunnel from London to Birmingham!
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 5,290
    HYUFD said:

    Without Farage the Reform vote would likely collapse. Zia Yusuf as leader would likely see Restore squeeze their vote heavily and Lee Anderson as leader would likely leak significantly to the Tories. However even against Burnham Labour Farage's Reform are still relatively resilient, only squeezed a little and still only a point or two behind

    What these commentators are missing is that Reform's constitution remains opaque enough for everything to point to the organisation remaining de facto in Farage's pocket, just as it was when he set the party up and effectively owned it. So Farage is never going to be forced out against his will in the manner of Starmer. If he goes it will be at his choosing and no-one elses.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,236
    ydoethur said:

    Couple of comments to correct errors on the previous thread, having done a rapid catchup:

    1) To amend the US constitution you need 38 states not 34. Or, you need a constitutional convention called by 34 states (which I think is where the confusion arose). I'll file both under 'not happening.'

    2) If the Prime Minister chooses not to live in Chequers, that does not mean it can be randomly palmed off to somebody else. Under the terms of the bequest, the next in line would be the Chancellor, then the Foreign Secretary, then the Colonial Secretary (defunct) then the US Ambassador, then the Minister for Agriculture - only then to 'a Secretary of State'.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/7-8/55/schedule/data.xht?view=snippet&wrap=true

    Thanks for the fact-cheque.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,984
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    Estimates suggest that renewables are roughly at parity with oil and gas for jobs, ~ 150000 each. Though some classifications of "green jobs" put them much higher.
    It's only going one way, Graham is backing the wrong horse.
    It’s not a binary choice. We need oil and gas for the foreseeable. She’s not anti renewable
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,170
    Header title elicits a strong reflexive NO. Rentoul and Hodges are the chuckle bros of political punditry. But in this case maybe yes. Reform could be on the slide. I'm not writing Farage off though. He's not fit to be PM but I don't buy the idea he doesn't want to be. I think he really does.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,786
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    I think at this point it would have been cheaper and faster to have bored a tunnel from London to Birmingham!
    We should just have asked Starmer to do it. He can bore like nobody else
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,381
    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    I've just noticed Miliband down at 1.62 to be Chancellor.

    I don't think it should be understated that Miliband is the same generation as Burnham. They were in government together at a similar time, and were in shadow government together too..
    The Chancellor decision will be his first test.
    I'd be inclined to regard choosing Miliband as a fail.
    Perhaps we should wait to see whatever the new chancellor does before deciding they are a failure?

    Ed M is the obvious choice, alongside Yvette Cooper. He's got an economics background and Treasury experience.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,589
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who had Paraguay and Morocco knocking out Germany and the Netherlands?

    That side of the draw now looks much more open.

    Earlier today, I found myself dancing with a Panamanian American insurance agent (it was work), who was supporting Paraguay, on the basis that Paraguay and Panama sound kinda similar, and they're both vaguely Central American.

    I explained that I would simply support whoever was playing Germany. Unless it was Argentina.
    Even France?
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,869
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    I think at this point it would have been cheaper and faster to have bored a tunnel from London to Birmingham!
    The user experience will mostly consist of tunnels and deep cuttings anyway. Once in a while the hapless passenger will emerge into bright sunlight (the upper Leam Valley viaduct, for example) only to be plunged back into the gloom of a cutting 10 seconds later, followed by a tunnel, followed by another cutting. One of the reasons for the outrageous cost is the need to lower the track due to Home Counties nimbyism.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,287
    edited 7:41AM
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/29/asylum-seekers-pay-towards-living-costs-new-uk-law

    Asylum seekers will be ordered to pay about £10,000 to cover their state-funded living costs or be denied settled status in the UK under a new law to be considered by MPs on Tuesday.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,589
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who had Paraguay and Morocco knocking out Germany and the Netherlands?

    That side of the draw now looks much more open.

    Earlier today, I found myself dancing with a Panamanian American insurance agent (it was work), who was supporting Paraguay, on the basis that Paraguay and Panama sound kinda similar, and they're both vaguely Central American.

    I explained that I would simply support whoever was playing Germany. Unless it was Argentina.
    Hmmm... I see on reflection that Paraguay is very definitely South America.
    If you cut off the Anglosphere and put the centre of gravity (sic) of Latin America through the middle of Brazil then both Panama and Paraguay are about equidistant from the centre

    (If you turn your head on one side and squint a bit)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,542

    HYUFD said:

    Without Farage the Reform vote would likely collapse. Zia Yusuf as leader would likely see Restore squeeze their vote heavily and Lee Anderson as leader would likely leak significantly to the Tories. However even against Burnham Labour Farage's Reform are still relatively resilient, only squeezed a little and still only a point or two behind

    What these commentators are missing is that Reform's constitution remains opaque enough for everything to point to the organisation remaining de facto in Farage's pocket, just as it was when he set the party up and effectively owned it. So Farage is never going to be forced out against his will in the manner of Starmer. If he goes it will be at his choosing and no-one elses.
    The report by the Parliamentary Standards Commissioner into Farage could have quite some effect on his position as an MP
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,820
    edited 7:45AM

    MattW said:

    A very interesting 10 minute video ("Letters from an American") by Heather Cox-Richardson how political language is changing. She does one of these most days, and is a specialist in the historical periods that Trump's movement idolises.

    She's reflecting on the language being used by Talarico in Texas - "A New Language of Politics" - around asserting the inclusive and multicultural nature of Texan society and culture.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO75H_sSnO4

    I think - if Andy B has a decent comms adviser - we will something similar here. I've already been calling the current far right "Traitors to British values" for some time in different fora, and there are plenty of points to apply pressure .

    I would have thought a decent comms adviser would tell him to steer clear of divisive rhetoric like that. His speech yesterday was notably free of partisan attacks.
    Talarico is turning the "patriotic vs unAmerican" rhetoric of the Trumpist-right on its head by drawing on Texan history in the competition for the Texas Senate seat. It's a little easier because his opponent is Ken Paxton.

    There's plenty to criticise in that reading of Texan history, but it's his a decent tactic for a Texas election, and he comes from the other tradition of US Christianity - call it William Penn vs "Reformed" (theologically) Puritan.

    I'll be interested to see how Burnham handles Farage, Anderson and Lowe in the Commons.

    Pointing out Yaxley-Lennon being a Putin poodle who just appeared in Moscow as Putin's useful idiot, or Farage's party having received 60% of it's entire stock of donations from one individual on the other side of the world who left the UK decades ago makes the disloyalty to the UK fairly obvious, I would say. As do the very public events around Farage.

    Quite a section of the fair-weather far-right supporters who are out and about online, who are not bots, are not true believers in the politics of their leaders and are open to a nudge or two.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,023
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    What happens is that managers with no domain knowledge each add a “policy initiative” that has their personal chop on it.

    These policies may be ludicrous and/or impossibly expensive.

    See the social engineering requirements for SMRs are a good example.

    I’ve had projects at the requirements stage, where when I tried to cut out ridiculous and harmful idiocy, the push back was “but that’s X’s idea - would be rude to him to drop it”

    It’s about proving they exist and have power.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,589
    Brixian59 said:

    I think the most likely scenario for Farage, he's actually VERY consistent...will be that he will "step back" in 2027, and when a GE is called he will return and messiah Version 4 or is it 5. That's his DNA .

    The Right are hopelessly fracturing at the moment and for all what Burnham isn't what he IS , is an incredibly shrewd "politicial" and "tactician!.

    Farage is losi interest, Lowe is gaining traction and then there is Kemi, god i almost feel sorry for her, the classic rabbit in the headlights.

    She will work with NO-ONE , not Farage not Lowe. No one will work with her, not Farage, Jenrick, Lowe.

    She drifts right right right in to a political cul de sac with narrowing bandwith.

    She attacks Burnhams speech, before he speaks, and simply looks desperately LOST.

    The biggest problem she has is this.

    IF she canot quickly realise the fact that the Right Wing Pool is full .

    There will be millions of centre ground voters, many Tories in the Midlands / North / Scotland and Wales who cannot stand Farage, aren;t in the same parish as Lowe, hated Starmer, who suddently have someone they can vote for with the sole aim of stopping Farage and Lowe.

    That ain;t Kemi.....it;s BURNHAM!

    You’re beginning to sound a bit plaintive there.

    ”It’s all going work out, Miss, isn’t it? Please tell me it’s going to be ok!”
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,236

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    So who had Paraguay and Morocco knocking out Germany and the Netherlands?

    That side of the draw now looks much more open.

    Earlier today, I found myself dancing with a Panamanian American insurance agent (it was work), who was supporting Paraguay, on the basis that Paraguay and Panama sound kinda similar, and they're both vaguely Central American.

    I explained that I would simply support whoever was playing Germany. Unless it was Argentina.
    Hmmm... I see on reflection that Paraguay is very definitely South America.
    If you cut off the Anglosphere and put the centre of gravity (sic) of Latin America through the middle of Brazil then both Panama and Paraguay are about equidistant from the centre

    (If you turn your head on one side and squint a bit)
    A surprising (to me at least) stat I heard at the World Cup was that the distance from Buenos Aires to Mexico City is bigger than the distance from London to Mumbai. I'd just mentally bundled them all together as South and Central America.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,589
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Out then go Germany and the Netherlands and this tournament starts to bubble along nicely. I'm on France to prevail - yes, I know, remember Agincourt, Crecy, Waterloo, Euston etc, etc.

    On topic, Reform is and has never been just about Farage - all he has done is successfully articulate the often incoherent anger and frustrations of those who feel "the system" has failed them and the country. Now, whether that's because of perceptions about immigration, the economy, the British identity, our place in the world or a whole range of other gripes and whinges, I'm not sure but as long as the causes of the anger remain, that anger will find expression somewhere by someone somehow and that could be Anderson or Lowe or A.N Other.

    What I found interesting about yesterday is both Burnham and Badenoch spoke and while the policies were very different as you might expect, the target audience was much the same - those who had formerly backed Labour or the Conservatives and were now with Reform. Faragists will claim it'stwo bald men fighting over a comb but I look at the Amber Valley question and I come back to it.

    What will be the more important thing for the Amber Valley voter in 2029 - stopping a Labour Government or stopping a Reform Government?

    By that logic shouldn’t everyone vote conservative?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,772

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/29/asylum-seekers-pay-towards-living-costs-new-uk-law

    Asylum seekers will be ordered to pay about £10,000 to cover their state-funded living costs or be denied settled status in the UK under a new law to be considered by MPs on Tuesday.

    Once again, there's the headline with which the average Reform voter will read and agree and the context which is much less clear.

    87% of those seeking refugee status were still not earning the national minimum wage five years later.

    That in itself begs all sorts of difficult questions about the "underclass" in society - how many end up working in the black economy and how many end up effectively in indentured servitude and in truth do many people care?

    I cannot imagine the trauma of rebuilding a life thousands of miles from a home to which I can never return but for many every migrant is simply another scrounger, another rapist, another child molester for whom deportation cannot come quickly enough.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,374
    .
    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    I've just noticed Miliband down at 1.62 to be Chancellor.

    I don't think it should be understated that Miliband is the same generation as Burnham. They were in government together at a similar time, and were in shadow government together too..
    The Chancellor decision will be his first test.
    I'd be inclined to regard choosing Miliband as a fail.
    Perhaps we should wait to see whatever the new chancellor does before deciding they are a failure?

    Ed M is the obvious choice, alongside Yvette Cooper. He's got an economics background and Treasury experience.
    I don't disagree on the point that we then have to judge him on what he does. It's only a first test.

    But the choice itself is likely to significantly influence policy, and I am not at all convinced by Milliband's record at Energy, where his economic background doesn't seem to have led to any useful insights.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,284
    Nigelb said:

    .

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ratters said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Sharon Graham, left wing leader of Unite and strong advocate of workers rights now faces a challenge

    Her crime. Criticising Ed Miliband and his net zero politics and undermining his bid to be Chancellor. As well as ‘not doing enough to beat Reform’ even though many of its members are supporters?

    So she now faces a challenge due to her wrongthink.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2026/jun/30/unite-union-sharon-graham-leadership-challenge-reform-uk

    She faces a challenge because it's an elected position, and a section of the membership don't like her.
    I don't see where "crime" comes in; it's just how the union system works.

    It would have been simpler to say that she faces a challenge from the left.
    And far less interesting. The article makes it clear the reasons for the challenge.

    I felt it worth pointing out. There is a clear campaign to bolster Ed Miliband and his bid for the chancellorship. As we saw with Newsnight last night with Mazzucato out batting for him.

    She faces a challenge due to her positioning and views.

    She’s a strong advocate of members rights. She’s even been on picket lines up here.
    I've just noticed Miliband down at 1.62 to be Chancellor.

    I don't think it should be understated that Miliband is the same generation as Burnham. They were in government together at a similar time, and were in shadow government together too..
    The Chancellor decision will be his first test.
    I'd be inclined to regard choosing Miliband as a fail.
    Perhaps we should wait to see whatever the new chancellor does before deciding they are a failure?

    Ed M is the obvious choice, alongside Yvette Cooper. He's got an economics background and Treasury experience.
    I don't disagree on the point that we then have to judge him on what he does. It's only a first test.

    But the choice itself is likely to significantly influence policy, and I am not at all convinced by Milliband's record at Energy, where his economic background doesn't seem to have led to any useful insights.
    Masterful understatement.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,589
    stodge said:

    The other thing we are now learning is Labour and Conservatives have finally stopped feeling sorry for themselves and are starting to do some thinking.

    Badenoch's play seems to be "common sense" - now, I commented on this yesterday and it will sell well until people ask where that common sense was when there was a Government of which she was a senior member. The second problem will be when the detailed Conservative policies come out and all the intended welfare cuts stop looking like common sense.

    Burnham has retailiated with what some are calling "Manchesterism" (I don't know either). As a firm believer in devolution and decentralisation, there's a lot to like about the rhetoric but people will soon ask about the costs of having two No.10 operations and all the other aspects of twin centre Government paraphenalia including the environmental impact of travelling from Manchester to London to attend the Commons.

    Indeed, both "plans" seem to have some pretty huge flaws but at least there's some thinking going on and that should rattle Reform and Restore a little.

    I’ve never been convinced that the “but you were in the last government you were” has any resonance outside of Westminster (and barely any there). It’s a cheap line for PMQ when you haven’t got anything better to say
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 28,236

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Out then go Germany and the Netherlands and this tournament starts to bubble along nicely. I'm on France to prevail - yes, I know, remember Agincourt, Crecy, Waterloo, Euston etc, etc.

    On topic, Reform is and has never been just about Farage - all he has done is successfully articulate the often incoherent anger and frustrations of those who feel "the system" has failed them and the country. Now, whether that's because of perceptions about immigration, the economy, the British identity, our place in the world or a whole range of other gripes and whinges, I'm not sure but as long as the causes of the anger remain, that anger will find expression somewhere by someone somehow and that could be Anderson or Lowe or A.N Other.

    What I found interesting about yesterday is both Burnham and Badenoch spoke and while the policies were very different as you might expect, the target audience was much the same - those who had formerly backed Labour or the Conservatives and were now with Reform. Faragists will claim it'stwo bald men fighting over a comb but I look at the Amber Valley question and I come back to it.

    What will be the more important thing for the Amber Valley voter in 2029 - stopping a Labour Government or stopping a Reform Government?

    By that logic shouldn’t everyone vote conservative?
    Count Binface for me as I prefer a credible policy platform.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,495
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    I think at this point it would have been cheaper and faster to have bored a tunnel from London to Birmingham!
    I've witnessed an interesting case study in getting infrastructure done these last 2 weeks in Turkey, particularly on the most recent stretch in the Erdogan heartland of the Black Sea region.

    They are building roads, railways and airports at a breakneck pace. All through the Pontic mountains are new tunnels, vast arrays of diggers and construction equipment. It's impressive. But look closer and you realise why this couldn't be a recipe for Britain without cultural and regulatory changes that I'm not sure we're up for.

    They don't close the road during construction, or notably cone off the works. You drive among it. That means:

    1. For large stretches you're driving on unmade rough surfaces, kicking up dust (or mud in winter). I expect there are several dents and tyre blowouts from this daily. Can't imagine the British road user tolerating this. But it means they can work at great speed.
    2. The health and safety implications don't bear thinking about. The whole set up looks like multiple accidents waiting to happen. But of course that will make things cheaper

    Planning and property rights? Erdogan decrees, it gets built

    Biodiversity and conservation? Not really something Turkey goes in for. No bat tunnels here.

    And of course a low wage workforce with very few protections.

    If we were a middle income country like Turkey then we could absolutely build HS2, NPR, a few new motorways and several new cities for a fraction of the cost and rapidly. The trouble is, we are not. So we need to work within What's culturally and socially acceptable.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,228
    edited 7:58AM

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    I think at this point it would have been cheaper and faster to have bored a tunnel from London to Birmingham!
    The user experience will mostly consist of tunnels and deep cuttings anyway. Once in a while the hapless passenger will emerge into bright sunlight (the upper Leam Valley viaduct, for example) only to be plunged back into the gloom of a cutting 10 seconds later, followed by a tunnel, followed by another cutting. One of the reasons for the outrageous cost is the need to lower the track due to Home Counties nimbyism.
    Indeed, for all the messing about it would have been simpler to get rid of most of the objections by using a tunnel for most of the journey.

    A high speed line is a pain to design at surface level, because it has to be very flat and with long corner radii, much easier to put the whole lot underground, with little evidence on the surface bar some air vents and emergency exits.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,203
    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    Yeah, near York. The university (may be council land) have some cycle path barriers that gave me the heebie jeebies as an able-bodied cyclist. Tuck everything in, try to stay dead straight and hope to not clip the barriers! Completely unsuitable for anything wider etc.

    There's also a cycleway on the way to York (old rail line) where the approach path is ridiculously narrow and with a non-dropped kerb to negotiate at the start, even though the track itself is good
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,633
    I have thought (and said here) that Reform can't win the next election. This is becoming more true all the time. Moving on to what happens next is interesting.

    Farage is on the downhill, but the reasons for the far right surge have not gone away. Farage not being centre stage leaves a horrible gap for some equally horrible people to fill, even though winning is out of the question.

    As things stand only Labour can lead the next government, not because Labour are great but because the Tories are not close to being good enough. The moderate Tory middle class backbone of the country has dissolved, both in party terms and demographically.

    Returning politics to sanity requires a Tory leader who, first of all, can set out an affirmative Burkean liberal and democratic vision as well as Burnham can set out his.

    Central to this is, because of the far right, affirming the difference between controlling our borders (fine) and demonising millions of people who are already lawfully here (the roots of fascism). The centre right and the far right are not the same but the Tories have no really clarified the difference. I don't think Kemi is the person to do it. It needs a visionary communicator.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,612

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Tres said:

    Jeez. Already the media hyena pack are now off on one wondering out loud how many nights Burnham will sleep at No 10 and how many at home in the North and so on.

    FFS.

    Focus on something important for a change.

    quite astute from burnham, get the meeja interested in frivolous stuff and not policy
    It's one thing wanting this to happen, but realistically is there long enough left of this term to put it into practice? It's surely quite a big project, duplicating No 10? Suitable property to buy or build, for one thing.
    House of Commons is falling apart anyway and needs a big refurb. Other countries manage having power spread out across different locations. Plus it will be a hugely visible change. It really is quite amusing watching all London elite getting vapours at the idea we might try something different
    Closing Westminstrr for 5-10 years and moving Parliament to Manchester for the duration is an excellent idea.
    Closing Westminster and moving Parliament elsewhere is a brilliant idea fullstop.

    But unless you move Westminster to the NEC it's got to be a permanent move..
    A permanent move is a truly stupid idea. It will cost vast billions and achieve nothing
    Unless you really wanted to break the Westminster stranglehold on all things in this country.
    Still a stupid idea. All you do is cause chaos in Government

    The only first world country that has their seat of Government elsewhere than their capital is the Netherlands. And the distance from The Hague to Amsterdam? 37 miles. Almost exactly the same distance as from one side of Greater London to the other.
    Only because you are defining it based on the capital and not based on their primary city.

    Washington DC is a tertiary city compared to New York, Los Angeles etc
    Canberra is a tertiary city compared to Sydney and Melbourne.
    Ottowa is a tertiary city compared to Toronto, Vancouver etc

    Actually separating the capital/seat of government from the primary cities which can concentrate on finance and other issues without government being there is quite common across the first world. Move government wholesale out of London.
    Like I said an idiotic idea that will set back both governance and the economy in this country for decades. Don't get me wrong, I detest London and do everything I can to avoid going anywhere near it. But tghis is a truly stupid and self harming idea.
    Tell me what infrastructure we have had approved by London up here in the past couple of decades?

    London keeps getting new train lines. Crossrail, HS2 etc

    Have we had any new train lines? Any new motorways? Anything?

    The Civil Servants who make the decisions don't give a shit beyond London. Kick them out of the city and see how soon they wake up.

    You call that setting things back? I can live with that.

    Developed countries with successful cities and separate capitals tend to work very well, not badly.
    This isn't true. HS2 was for the North, and there's the Transpennine Upgrade Programme and before that the West Coast Mainline Upgrade.

    Northern Rail does get the shitty stick, and that needs to change, but let's not pretend that no-one cares.
    PMSL!

    Tell me how the absolute hell is a train line in the South of England that goes to London and terminates up in the Midlands in Birmingham is "for the North"?

    If HS2 were actually for the North then it would have made sense to start construction with the Northern legs of it and deal with the Chilterns and South of England later on, and scrap that if anything were to be scrapped. But no, it was never for us.

    Only a Southerner could think that what the North is desperately crying out for is another line in London.
    It was originally for the North, that's why it was planned to go to Manchester and Leeds. The fact it's been cut back is a travesty, but you can't just represent it as a London thing. It was intended to provide a fast spine right up the whole country to deliver better economic integration for the Midlands and the North.
    HS2 is a very good idea very badly executed. It remains a good idea though, and it needs to continue to Manchester and Leeds. Ideally it should continue to Edinburgh and Glasgow at some point. And another high speed line should be built to Bristol, South Wales and Plymouth. The UK is a relatively compact country whose economic geography would be utterly transformed by improved transport links. If we can't find a way to do it at a reasonable budget then get the Spanish or the Chinese in to do it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,228

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Out then go Germany and the Netherlands and this tournament starts to bubble along nicely. I'm on France to prevail - yes, I know, remember Agincourt, Crecy, Waterloo, Euston etc, etc.

    On topic, Reform is and has never been just about Farage - all he has done is successfully articulate the often incoherent anger and frustrations of those who feel "the system" has failed them and the country. Now, whether that's because of perceptions about immigration, the economy, the British identity, our place in the world or a whole range of other gripes and whinges, I'm not sure but as long as the causes of the anger remain, that anger will find expression somewhere by someone somehow and that could be Anderson or Lowe or A.N Other.

    What I found interesting about yesterday is both Burnham and Badenoch spoke and while the policies were very different as you might expect, the target audience was much the same - those who had formerly backed Labour or the Conservatives and were now with Reform. Faragists will claim it'stwo bald men fighting over a comb but I look at the Amber Valley question and I come back to it.

    What will be the more important thing for the Amber Valley voter in 2029 - stopping a Labour Government or stopping a Reform Government?

    By that logic shouldn’t everyone vote conservative?
    Of course, absolutely. Vote Conservative #TeamKemi 💙
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,689
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    OT:

    Do we have any Yorkies here?

    I am told that there is (finally) a "Barrier Removal Programme" starting to move - the Council "put aside a fund"! in 2021.

    I'd be interested to hear If anyone notices.

    This after a friend who is a Professor at York University who has multiple sclerosis, and now uses a 3-wheeled mobility aid (having gone from cycle to stabilised cycle over the years). sued the Council under the Equality Act 2020 after they blocked the entrance to a green space (Hob Moor) with the following custom-made anti-wheelchair obstruction, which was uniquely abusive of them. They spent taxpayers' money installing barriers quite widely, at several thousand a pop to implement law breaking.

    Before that he attempted to engage the Council for 3 years. They did the usual things - ignore him, ask for more time, dissemble, then cave at a cost of several thousand.

    This is his own account from 2021. Only a disabled victim personally can take legal action, and in 2021 it cost £600 to get to Court. Thank-you David Cameron (mainly):
    https://yorkcyclecampaign.bike/2021/03/20/taking-legal-action-on-barriers/

    The problems with facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it, are covered in his article.

    There is a deeper issue, here. A structural one.

    The “facilities designed by people who do not understand disability, or without thinking about it”

    This pattern repeats - something designed and created at great expense, that is rubbish. And often breaks the rules it is supposed to enforce.

    The famous Bat Tunnel was founded on a stupid idea - perfect safety for bats rather than an assessed risk. Nothing can be perfectly safe - even at infinite cost. The specification was created by someone without even a passing interest in reading about engineering and managing physical projects.

    It is this deep, ingrained, lack of knowledge that causes much damage in our society.
    Yet a number of ancient woodlands have been bulldozed to make way for HS2. The inconsistency is what is so baffling - the idea is that you do a CBA that values all this stuff and therefore you reach an efficient outcome - but HS2 decisions seem to made at random.
    I think at this point it would have been cheaper and faster to have bored a tunnel from London to Birmingham!
    The user experience will mostly consist of tunnels and deep cuttings anyway. Once in a while the hapless passenger will emerge into bright sunlight (the upper Leam Valley viaduct, for example) only to be plunged back into the gloom of a cutting 10 seconds later, followed by a tunnel, followed by another cutting. One of the reasons for the outrageous cost is the need to lower the track due to Home Counties nimbyism.
    Indeed, for all the messing about it would have been simpler to get rid of most of the objections by using a tunnel for most of the journey.

    A high speed line is a pain to design at surface level, because it has to be very flat and with long corner radii, much easier to put the whole lot underground, with little evidence on the surface bar some air vents and emergency exits.
    For me, the main joy of travelling by train is looking out of the window to watch the changing landscape. both rural and urban, unfurl as you speed by. I find the idea of travelling by tunnel, with the occasional cutting, pretty depressing and unappealing.
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