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Who will be the next Foreign Secretary? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,216
edited 1:54PM in General
Who will be the next Foreign Secretary? – politicalbetting.com

Amusingly Wes Streeting is the favourite to be the next Foreign Secretary as well as the favourite to be the next Chancellor in the markets from Ladbrokes which says a lot about the way his star is in the ascendancy.

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    Primo?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 10,174
    It would make sense for the country, for Burnham and for Starmer himself for Starmer to accept the post of Foreign Secretary. It's a perfect fit.

    But I think Starmer is just too hurt to accept it. And Vic wants him home.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,658
    I agree

    Wes as next FS is just absurd - its a shame there is no money to lay on BF
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,649
    Wot - no Mandy?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,223
    Ed Miliband might be an interesting choice (assuming Burnham wants to give him a big job). A stint as foreign secretary might knock the idea that the rest of the world is desperate to follow Britain's example out of him.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,229
    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,215
    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,649
    edited 2:18PM
    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    Slowly - then all at once.

    The oligarchs are going to be selling the Big Issue at this rate.

    I am waiting for China to make a move - buying its old far-Russian territories at a few kopecks on the rouble.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 59,229

    Ed Miliband might be an interesting choice (assuming Burnham wants to give him a big job). A stint as foreign secretary might knock the idea that the rest of the world is desperate to follow Britain's example out of him.

    Can you imagine what kind of a deal he might negotiate with the EU? I wouldn't be surprised if he volunteered to reinstate our contributions to their budget as a starter for £40bn.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,097
    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,223
    DavidL said:

    Ed Miliband might be an interesting choice (assuming Burnham wants to give him a big job). A stint as foreign secretary might knock the idea that the rest of the world is desperate to follow Britain's example out of him.

    Can you imagine what kind of a deal he might negotiate with the EU? I wouldn't be surprised if he volunteered to reinstate our contributions to their budget as a starter for £40bn.
    He might be their worst nightmare and refuse to do a deal unless they sign up for some crippling reciprocal obligation to dismantle all their industry.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,228
    Streeting would be a more natural fit as Foreign Secretary than Cooper and Cooper better at the Treasury. Outside chance Starmer could be given the Foreign Office role too as former PMs Cameron and Home were
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    edited 2:25PM

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    Slowly - then all at once.

    The oligarchs are going to be selling the Big Issue at this rate.

    I am waiting for China to make a move - buying its old far-Russian territories at a few kopecks on the rouble.
    It wouldn’t be much of a surprise to see the Chinese invade the mountains towards Vladivostok and Irkutsk at this point, there’s no way Russia has anything resembling an army or air defences in the Far East.

    What would be the price to Xi of feeding Moscow this winter?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,540

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    Cairns is lucky to be a junior minister.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,200
    edited 2:25PM
    Duplicate and in using vf
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,878
    edited 2:26PM
    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,540
    John Healey would be an excellent Foreign Secretary.

    Dan Jarvis would be excellent at Defence
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,931
    edited 2:27PM
    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Hot take that no-one else on the planet will agree with, the best GTA is GTA2.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,185

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,644
    Brixian59 said:

    John Healey would be an excellent Foreign Secretary.

    Dan Jarvis would be excellent at Defence

    I agree on Healey at FO.

    Not so sure about Jarvis at Defence. It concerns me he was willing to take the job on the basis of the settlement that clearly is not good enough to prevent the serious deterioration of our Armed Forces.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,549
    I'd think SKS would want to withdraw for a while to lick his wounds and recover. It isn't as though he willingly made way for a successor. Expecting him to turn up at Cabinet like a former owner become a guest seems a bit of a stretch.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075

    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Hot take that no-one else on the planet will agree with, the best GTA is GTA2.
    GTA2 was very good, and the interface change from the overhead original GTA made the game what it is now.

    Let’s hope they actually stick to the GTA6 release date this time. Some of us have already booked the week off work in November!
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,781
    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Gotta kill that CEX resale market!

    Unless they've really made a mistake that's going to be the best selling entertainment product of the year.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Hot take that no-one else on the planet will agree with, the best GTA is GTA2.
    GTA2 was very good, and the interface change from the overhead original GTA made the game what it is now.

    Let’s hope they actually stick to the GTA6 release date this time. Some of us have already booked the week off work in November!
    Gta3 was the interface change, no?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,771

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    Slowly - then all at once.

    The oligarchs are going to be selling the Big Issue at this rate.

    I am waiting for China to make a move - buying its old far-Russian territories at a few kopecks on the rouble.
    Own assets.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,931
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Hot take that no-one else on the planet will agree with, the best GTA is GTA2.
    GTA2 was very good, and the interface change from the overhead original GTA made the game what it is now.

    Let’s hope they actually stick to the GTA6 release date this time. Some of us have already booked the week off work in November!
    Gta3 was the interface change, no?
    Yes.

    I like GTA2 the best because they'd perfected the top-down version with that one. The move to 3D is nice and impressive and all that, and they are technically stunning games (especially stuff like Liberty City), but the sheer playability of GTA2 is the one I'd go for first.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,097
    AnneJGP said:

    I'd think SKS would want to withdraw for a while to lick his wounds and recover. It isn't as though he willingly made way for a successor. Expecting him to turn up at Cabinet like a former owner become a guest seems a bit of a stretch.

    I did note that Burnham could keep Cooper at the Foreign Office for a bit then Starmer takes over, so it doesn't have to be immediate.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    Foss said:

    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Gotta kill that CEX resale market!

    Unless they've really made a mistake that's going to be the best selling entertainment product of the year.
    It’s going to be the best selling entertainment product of all time within the first week! Will be $billions.

    At $80, they only need to sell 12.5m copies worldwide for a billion dollars. Could be an order of magnitude more than that, just on release day.

    I’m not the only fortysomething in my office buying a PS5 this summer in anticipation of it!!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,097
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Bring back Disqus!
  • eekeek Posts: 34,200
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Hot take that no-one else on the planet will agree with, the best GTA is GTA2.
    GTA2 was very good, and the interface change from the overhead original GTA made the game what it is now.

    Let’s hope they actually stick to the GTA6 release date this time. Some of us have already booked the week off work in November!
    Gta3 was the interface change, no?
    Yes yes, realised that about a minute too late!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,201
    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    I really want this to be true @Sandpit but the Ruble USD rate is barely moving and a Ruble is still worth more than it was a year ago.

    Am I missing something?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,781
    Sandpit said:

    Foss said:

    CatMan said:

    GTA6 prices out. Gonna be $80 for the "Standard Edition", so presumably £80 here. Won't get a disk either. Lovely 😒

    https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1ue9yht/megathread_grand_theft_auto_vi_prices_announced/

    Gotta kill that CEX resale market!

    Unless they've really made a mistake that's going to be the best selling entertainment product of the year.
    It’s going to be the best selling entertainment product of all time within the first week! Will be $billions.

    At $80, they only need to sell 12.5m copies worldwide for a billion dollars. Could be an order of magnitude more than that, just on release day.

    I’m not the only fortysomething in my office buying a PS5 this summer in anticipation of it!!
    TBH, I'm thinking about waiting for the PC release and using it as an excuse to build a new box. I probably won't have much time to play it for a couple of year anyway.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    edited 2:42PM

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    I really want this to be true @Sandpit but the Ruble USD rate is barely moving and a Ruble is still worth more than it was a year ago.

    Am I missing something?
    Yes, there’s nobody buying Rubles outside Russia, and inside Russia it’s impossible in practice to buy dollars at anything like the official rate. As with China, pure currency manipulation.

    When I was in Istanbul a couple of years ago, there was a 50% spread between the buy and sell price on Rubles.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,038
    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,200
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    I really want this to be true @Sandpit but the Ruble USD rate is barely moving and a Ruble is still worth more than it was a year ago.

    Am I missing something?
    Yes, there’s nobody buying Rubles outside Russia, and inside Russia it’s impossible in practice to buy dollars at anything like the official rate. As with China, pure currency manipulation.

    When I was in Istanbul a couple of years ago, there was a 50% spread between the buy and sell price on Rubles.
    When I was in Antalya last month I don't think selling Rubles was an option..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    Not sure I’d want to host a realtime and scaleable forum these days without a couple of full-time staff.

    Vanilla, Disqus etc are crappy products but possibly still better than the alternatives.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,818
    I don't think Burnham needs to accommodate Starmer or wants to, nor do I think Starmer will want to hang on. The circumstances are different from Cameron who recognised he screwed up on the Brexit referendum, and even he waited several years before coming back.

    Less than 1 in 16 I think.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,223
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    Trump would sense it immediately and head off that strategy by talking about how Burnham has beautiful eyes and great hair.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    I really want this to be true @Sandpit but the Ruble USD rate is barely moving and a Ruble is still worth more than it was a year ago.

    Am I missing something?
    Yes, there’s nobody buying Rubles outside Russia, and inside Russia it’s impossible in practice to buy dollars at anything like the official rate. As with China, pure currency manipulation.

    When I was in Istanbul a couple of years ago, there was a 50% spread between the buy and sell price on Rubles.
    When I was in Antalya last month I don't think selling Rubles was an option..
    LOL because who would want them, they’re about to become as valuable as Monopoly money or the old Zimbabwean dollars from a few years ago.

    Perhaps find some new ones and put them in a frame, graded like baseball cards.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,200
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    I really want this to be true @Sandpit but the Ruble USD rate is barely moving and a Ruble is still worth more than it was a year ago.

    Am I missing something?
    Yes, there’s nobody buying Rubles outside Russia, and inside Russia it’s impossible in practice to buy dollars at anything like the official rate. As with China, pure currency manipulation.

    When I was in Istanbul a couple of years ago, there was a 50% spread between the buy and sell price on Rubles.
    When I was in Antalya last month I don't think selling Rubles was an option..
    LOL because who would want them, they’re about to become as valuable as Monopoly money or the old Zimbabwean dollars from a few years ago.

    Perhaps find some new ones and put them in a frame, graded like baseball cards.
    I was having a discussion with the hotel management who were saying that June / July is usually Russians before the European school holidays kick off. My thoughts at the time were that I think you will see fewer people than last year.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    That you hate his guts, doesn’t make him go away. Trump is still the 800lb gorilla in the room.

    “He doesn’t even want to meet me, so if he doesn’t drop his country’s gratuitous attacks on American tech companies he can expect tariffs on British imports to rise from 5% to 50% next month. Sorry about all of those fancy cars and the Scotch whisky industry, where the US is the largest export market by far.”
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,818
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    I think the same words could have been said about Starmer focusing on domestic policy when he came in. Unfortunately foreign policy calls for you and not the other way round. So if say the US president does a mad invasion of Iran you have to deal with it straight away - you can't let it drift like you can domestic policy. Firstly there is more of the bad foreign policy stuff around than there used to be. Secondly, and paradoxically, the more the UK becomes irrelevant on the world stage the harder we have to work at it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    I really want this to be true @Sandpit but the Ruble USD rate is barely moving and a Ruble is still worth more than it was a year ago.

    Am I missing something?
    Yes, there’s nobody buying Rubles outside Russia, and inside Russia it’s impossible in practice to buy dollars at anything like the official rate. As with China, pure currency manipulation.

    When I was in Istanbul a couple of years ago, there was a 50% spread between the buy and sell price on Rubles.
    When I was in Antalya last month I don't think selling Rubles was an option..
    LOL because who would want them, they’re about to become as valuable as Monopoly money or the old Zimbabwean dollars from a few years ago.

    Perhaps find some new ones and put them in a frame, graded like baseball cards.
    I was having a discussion with the hotel management who were saying that June / July is usually Russians before the European school holidays kick off. My thoughts at the time were that I think you will see fewer people than last year.
    Given that all of the airports in Moscow have been closed for most of the last few weeks…
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,038

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    Trump would sense it immediately and head off that strategy by talking about how Burnham has beautiful eyes and great hair.
    Yes, Trump will no doubt fancy the pants of Andy. But he'll soon get the message when his crush doesn't respond.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,038
    FF43 said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    I think the same words could have been said about Starmer focusing on domestic policy when he came in. Unfortunately foreign policy calls for you and not the other way round. So if say the US president does a mad invasion of Iran you have to deal with it straight away - you can't let it drift like you can domestic policy. Firstly there is more of the bad foreign policy stuff around than there used to be. Secondly, and paradoxically, the more the UK becomes irrelevant on the world stage the harder we have to work at it.
    Yes, but there's no need to pander to Donald Trump. It's a bad call. You get less than nothing from it. Keep it ice-cool and detached.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,818
    edited 3:03PM
    Wes Streeting is the favourite to be the next Foreign Secretary as well as the favourite to be the next Chancellor

    I think Streeting is the only current/recent cabinet member that Burnham does need to offer a senior job to. I would actually make him Home Sec (although I have no particular expectations Burnham will do that). Streeting has a moral compass, which is useful in that job. Not exactly my moral compass, but he does have one and Burnham doesn't, so it's complementary. A Theresa May figure if you will.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,760
    35.7°. New June record.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 51,038
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    That you hate his guts, doesn’t make him go away. Trump is still the 800lb gorilla in the room.

    “He doesn’t even want to meet me, so if he doesn’t drop his country’s gratuitous attacks on American tech companies he can expect tariffs on British imports to rise from 5% to 50% next month. Sorry about all of those fancy cars and the Scotch whisky industry, where the US is the largest export market by far.”
    Trying to curry favour with Trump doesn't work, or if it does it's for 48 hours max. It's demeaning and counter-productive. Let's have an end to it. Arms length professional relationship between our two nations until there's somebody in the oval office worthy of trust and respect.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,097
    dixiedean said:

    35.7°. New June record.

    Sorchio.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,651
    I don't have a view on how likely TSE's tip is, but I don't think it's a daft idea. I'd be the first to say that SKS has been amusingly and frustratingly terrible, but in foreign policy terms he's been largely pretty good. Black marks for Chagos and for the various stuff-for-vague-promises deals with the EU, but top marks for Ukraine and for Trump-management. He still suffers from the tendency to think people are mainly good chaps rather than ruthless weasels furiously trying to chisel out any advantage they can for their own country at the expense of everyone else, but he wouldn't be too different from most FSs in that respect.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,164
    Brixian59 said:

    John Healey would be an excellent Foreign Secretary.

    Dan Jarvis would be excellent at Defence

    I think you have to first decide who you might want to bomb and why. I wouldn't have either of those two anywhere near bombs and planes and drones. I'd give the job to a pacifist. An old hippy who doesn't want to bomb anyone. Maybe Corbyn. It might even leave enough money to do something useful with what is saved.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,271
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,933
    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/heat-mortality-monitoring-report-england-2025/heat-mortality-monitoring-report-england-2025

    Note that they are talking about episodes where the mean temperature hit… 22 and a bit degrees

    And they were noticing deaths in the statistics.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,185
    Sandpit said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    That you hate his guts, doesn’t make him go away. Trump is still the 800lb gorilla in the room.

    “He doesn’t even want to meet me, so if he doesn’t drop his country’s gratuitous attacks on American tech companies he can expect tariffs on British imports to rise from 5% to 50% next month. Sorry about all of those fancy cars and the Scotch whisky industry, where the US is the largest export market by far.”
    Large export markets? Trade barriers?

    Nah, I say we Take Back Control :lol:
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 10,185

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    Of course, if the models ever get trained on US high level foreign policy discussions from recent years, the the answer to any question will, I guess, be bomb Iran!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,271
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    Of course, if the models ever get trained on US high level foreign policy discussions from recent years, the the answer to any question will, I guess, be bomb Iran!
    We could use DeepSeek instead? Then the answer will always be to support the reunification of Taiwan with China.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,201
    edited 3:20PM
    dixiedean said:

    35.7°. New June record.

    I reckon that will be beaten again today - we've got 35.3 on our Davis weatherstation and the temperature is still creeping up.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    Sigh: duplicated comments, again.

    Time to make the switch.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,818
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
    Thanks very much @rcs1000 for hosting and managing everything. In addition to your points I would add Vanilla is not great on mobile devices, which is pretty much everyone.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,651
    Vaguely on-topic - I have just seen the following on fb from Alistair Carmichael (I've no idea why the algorithm thought I should follow him, but I'm interested nonetheless) - it may be relevant to @IanB2 :

    I have written to Europcar this week on behalf of constituents who were barred from renting a car in Glasgow without a passport, being told that this was because they were from a “British island”.
    They were later told that this is defined as “one who, at the time of rental, is not resident in the United Kingdom or Northern Ireland. Included in this definition are residents of the Shetland, Orkneys, Hebrides, Isle of Man, Isle of Scilly, Channel Islands and the Isle of Wight.”
    This is an utterly bizarre policy on the part of Europcar. At best it is a mistake, but one which demonstrates woeful ignorance on the part of the company or their staff about the basic composition of the United Kingdom. At worst it is intentional and wholly unjustified discrimination against people from island communities.
    Shetland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as anywhere else. It is unclear why residents of any UK island community – whether Shetland, Orkney or indeed the Isle of Wight – should be treated differently from residents of mainland communities when hiring a vehicle within the UK.
    There is no justification for islanders to be treated less favourably or subjected to unclear and unjustified requirements when accessing services on the mainland. I shall expect a clear explanation from Europcar on these points – and an apology to my constituents – in the coming days.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,217

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/heat-mortality-monitoring-report-england-2025/heat-mortality-monitoring-report-england-2025

    Note that they are talking about episodes where the mean temperature hit… 22 and a bit degrees

    And they were noticing deaths in the statistics.

    The conclusion that care homes should have air-con is astonishingly obvious
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    It is worth noting that Burnham considers London to be abroad.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,649
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:


    Oh it keeps getting better. Russian central bank admits to printing 5trn roubles (£25bn or so, c.2.5% of GDP) and says more is coming. Stock market falling.

    https://x.com/realjakebroe/status/2069595528351092773

    That might explain the queues at the banks we saw earlier.

    Add the Moscow refinery being totally shut down at least into 2027, and they’re not having the best of weeks!

    Sevastopol and Kerch are on fire as well.

    Never mind.

    Slowly - then all at once.

    The oligarchs are going to be selling the Big Issue at this rate.

    I am waiting for China to make a move - buying its old far-Russian territories at a few kopecks on the rouble.
    It wouldn’t be much of a surprise to see the Chinese invade the mountains towards Vladivostok and Irkutsk at this point, there’s no way Russia has anything resembling an army or air defences in the Far East.

    What would be the price to Xi of feeding Moscow this winter?
    Chinese vessels delivering food are unlikely to be targeted by Ukraine. Although as long as it is not to Crimea...

    Xi has no need to go to war with Russia. It could all go horribly nuclear, and frankly the Chinese have no need to take any risks. The coffers in Beijing are full with money doing nothing. The Chinese might as well put it use it to secure historic lands around Vladivostok. That could be Xi's legacy, rather than the trauma of untold millions of dead taking Taiwan by force in the age of the sea drones.


  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,201
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
    What duplicates?

    Seriously, your efforts are much appreciated - if you need a call for funds just let us know*

    (*Malc's minted, I believe ;-) )
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
    And that post, posted twice!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    Cookie said:

    Vaguely on-topic - I have just seen the following on fb from Alistair Carmichael (I've no idea why the algorithm thought I should follow him, but I'm interested nonetheless) - it may be relevant to @IanB2 :

    I have written to Europcar this week on behalf of constituents who were barred from renting a car in Glasgow without a passport, being told that this was because they were from a “British island”.
    They were later told that this is defined as “one who, at the time of rental, is not resident in the United Kingdom or Northern Ireland. Included in this definition are residents of the Shetland, Orkneys, Hebrides, Isle of Man, Isle of Scilly, Channel Islands and the Isle of Wight.”
    This is an utterly bizarre policy on the part of Europcar. At best it is a mistake, but one which demonstrates woeful ignorance on the part of the company or their staff about the basic composition of the United Kingdom. At worst it is intentional and wholly unjustified discrimination against people from island communities.
    Shetland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as anywhere else. It is unclear why residents of any UK island community – whether Shetland, Orkney or indeed the Isle of Wight – should be treated differently from residents of mainland communities when hiring a vehicle within the UK.
    There is no justification for islanders to be treated less favourably or subjected to unclear and unjustified requirements when accessing services on the mainland. I shall expect a clear explanation from Europcar on these points – and an apology to my constituents – in the coming days.

    It is -I'm sure- simply a Europcar agent being confused between the Shetland Isles and the Faroe Isles.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,201
    Omnium said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    I think the site should be hosted in Madagascar, then the Vanilla would be better.
    Yes I scream
    It's rather rum, raisin' that again.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,540
    dixiedean said:

    35.7°. New June record.

    It was 35.6° in Camden Square on 29th June 1957.

    https://www.trevorharley.com/hottest-day-of-each-year-from-1900.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    This gives me the perfect excuse to share this song:

    https://youtu.be/C9RJQPZsj8E?si=5g3zpZfs3fwGOryt

    Probably the most played song containing the word "Chişinău" in the history of the world.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,760
    Cookie said:

    Vaguely on-topic - I have just seen the following on fb from Alistair Carmichael (I've no idea why the algorithm thought I should follow him, but I'm interested nonetheless) - it may be relevant to @IanB2 :

    I have written to Europcar this week on behalf of constituents who were barred from renting a car in Glasgow without a passport, being told that this was because they were from a “British island”.
    They were later told that this is defined as “one who, at the time of rental, is not resident in the United Kingdom or Northern Ireland. Included in this definition are residents of the Shetland, Orkneys, Hebrides, Isle of Man, Isle of Scilly, Channel Islands and the Isle of Wight.”
    This is an utterly bizarre policy on the part of Europcar. At best it is a mistake, but one which demonstrates woeful ignorance on the part of the company or their staff about the basic composition of the United Kingdom. At worst it is intentional and wholly unjustified discrimination against people from island communities.
    Shetland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as anywhere else. It is unclear why residents of any UK island community – whether Shetland, Orkney or indeed the Isle of Wight – should be treated differently from residents of mainland communities when hiring a vehicle within the UK.
    There is no justification for islanders to be treated less favourably or subjected to unclear and unjustified requirements when accessing services on the mainland. I shall expect a clear explanation from Europcar on these points – and an apology to my constituents – in the coming days.

    Why not Portsea and Canvey?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,608
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    eek said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Duplicate and in using vf

    Yeah it’s still doing that. Says error but posts anyway, often 404s when refreshing on vf.pb.com.

    Looks like the Vanilla/Cloudflare interface is screwed, perhaps a failed server in the pool that doesn’t show as actually failed.
    I'm thinking about dumping Vanilla, and just going full self hosted.
    Brave but it shouldn't be that difficult nowadays..
    When PB was first started, we used standard Wordpress comments.

    As the site got more popular, though, it became unusable. In particular, it was very slow, and the site was absolutely spammed with adverts for certain pharmaceuticals that I know no PBer would ever need.

    So, we changed first to Disqus (until the great threading disaster of 2011), and then Vanilla.

    Candidly, Vanilla is expensive, and fragile. It does not work well with Cloudflare, and we've been getting duplicated posts.

    And PB is now on a fairly high performance server in Finland. I suspect that it would be easily capable of handling comments on Wordpress. And I'm equally sure that spam management, etc is all much better.

    So... when I next get a day off, I will almost certainly transition us over.
    And that post, posted twice!
    I know, that made me laugh too.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,051
    Cookie said:

    Vaguely on-topic - I have just seen the following on fb from Alistair Carmichael (I've no idea why the algorithm thought I should follow him, but I'm interested nonetheless) - it may be relevant to @IanB2 :

    I have written to Europcar this week on behalf of constituents who were barred from renting a car in Glasgow without a passport, being told that this was because they were from a “British island”.
    They were later told that this is defined as “one who, at the time of rental, is not resident in the United Kingdom or Northern Ireland. Included in this definition are residents of the Shetland, Orkneys, Hebrides, Isle of Man, Isle of Scilly, Channel Islands and the Isle of Wight.”
    This is an utterly bizarre policy on the part of Europcar. At best it is a mistake, but one which demonstrates woeful ignorance on the part of the company or their staff about the basic composition of the United Kingdom. At worst it is intentional and wholly unjustified discrimination against people from island communities.
    Shetland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as anywhere else. It is unclear why residents of any UK island community – whether Shetland, Orkney or indeed the Isle of Wight – should be treated differently from residents of mainland communities when hiring a vehicle within the UK.
    There is no justification for islanders to be treated less favourably or subjected to unclear and unjustified requirements when accessing services on the mainland. I shall expect a clear explanation from Europcar on these points – and an apology to my constituents – in the coming days.

    Um, hold on. Does this help?

    "British Islands" (not "British Isles") isn't a term of art, it has a defined legal meaning

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Islands

    From memory, it's coterminous with the "British Realm": all those parts which have King Charles as King by virtue of his office as British King.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,649
    when the switch was made in 2013 it was clear as day that Vanilla was superior to Disqus. No doubt things have changed since, but is it that broke that it needs fixing?
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,540
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    I can see Starmer coming back into government to be FS at some point but I agree with @Barnesian that he's just going to be too hurt to do that right now. Plus he will have a biography to write.

    My guess is that a Burnham government, events allowing, will be much more domestically focused than Starmer proved to be. I can see him leaving the position alone.

    I too expect Burnham to be less focused on 'abroad' than Starmer was.

    My most fervent hope is that he gets it right with the US president. By which I mean he makes no effort with him whatsoever. Ignores him to the greatest extent possible. If he calls, ok take it, but pretty much nothing else. No response (positive or negative) to tweets or media comments. No squirmy fake 'chemistry'. No outgoing calls. No trip to Washington. No PM/Prez meetings at all other than what can't be avoided at summits. No entreaties on trade. No attempts to pander or to 'manage' on foreign or defence matters. Just put that 100% monstrosity of an individual in the fridge and close the door.

    I'll be judging our new Labour PM on this more than anything. If he does it as above I'll be impressed and delighted. If he doesn't, if it's the same old same old, I'll be sad and disappointed.
    Spot in

    Focus on Europe

  • eekeek Posts: 34,200
    geoffw said:

    when the switch was made in 2013 it was clear as day that Vanilla was superior to Disqus. No doubt things have changed since, but is it that broke that it needs fixing?

    It's stupidly expensive...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 62,075
    edited 3:36PM
    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    This gives me the perfect excuse to share this song:

    https://youtu.be/C9RJQPZsj8E?si=5g3zpZfs3fwGOryt

    Probably the most played song containing the word "Chişinău" in the history of the world.
    Don’t laugh but I’m about to book a holiday there.

    With the tensions between Poland and Ukraine in the past couple of weeks, Mrs Sandpit has found a daily sleeper train from Chişinău to Kyiv. Moldova is cheaper to fly to and stay in for 24 hours, than going through Krakow which is the alternative.

    A quick Google says there’s not an awful lot to do there, but some nice parks and old Soviet monuments. Their local wine is apparently quite good too.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,540

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd think SKS would want to withdraw for a while to lick his wounds and recover. It isn't as though he willingly made way for a successor. Expecting him to turn up at Cabinet like a former owner become a guest seems a bit of a stretch.

    I did note that Burnham could keep Cooper at the Foreign Office for a bit then Starmer takes over, so it doesn't have to be immediate.
    Starmer is far more likely to end up at NATO in my opinion
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,818
    .
    Cookie said:

    Vaguely on-topic - I have just seen the following on fb from Alistair Carmichael (I've no idea why the algorithm thought I should follow him, but I'm interested nonetheless) - it may be relevant to @IanB2 :

    I have written to Europcar this week on behalf of constituents who were barred from renting a car in Glasgow without a passport, being told that this was because they were from a “British island”.
    They were later told that this is defined as “one who, at the time of rental, is not resident in the United Kingdom or Northern Ireland. Included in this definition are residents of the Shetland, Orkneys, Hebrides, Isle of Man, Isle of Scilly, Channel Islands and the Isle of Wight.”
    This is an utterly bizarre policy on the part of Europcar. At best it is a mistake, but one which demonstrates woeful ignorance on the part of the company or their staff about the basic composition of the United Kingdom. At worst it is intentional and wholly unjustified discrimination against people from island communities.
    Shetland is as much a part of the United Kingdom as anywhere else. It is unclear why residents of any UK island community – whether Shetland, Orkney or indeed the Isle of Wight – should be treated differently from residents of mainland communities when hiring a vehicle within the UK.
    There is no justification for islanders to be treated less favourably or subjected to unclear and unjustified requirements when accessing services on the mainland. I shall expect a clear explanation from Europcar on these points – and an apology to my constituents – in the coming days.

    Isle of Man and the Channel Islands have a different financial services regime from the UK, with consequent credit risk implications. Shetland and Orkney are in the UK regime, at least for now
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,051
    Brixian59 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd think SKS would want to withdraw for a while to lick his wounds and recover. It isn't as though he willingly made way for a successor. Expecting him to turn up at Cabinet like a former owner become a guest seems a bit of a stretch.

    I did note that Burnham could keep Cooper at the Foreign Office for a bit then Starmer takes over, so it doesn't have to be immediate.
    Starmer is far more likely to end up at NATO in my opinion
    Dear God, no, he'd be awful. He should never be in an important job that involves people's lives. He's a lawyer. Let him go back to that. He can charge a lot of money for doing things that are checked by others, constrained by the law, overseen by a judge, and assessed by a jury. That way he will cause minimum damage.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,217
    I note the wholesale price of electricity went up to 56p/kwh yesterday at 8:30 PM.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,933
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    Of course, if the models ever get trained on US high level foreign policy discussions from recent years, the the answer to any question will, I guess, be bomb Iran!
    What utter nonsense.

    Such a model would obviously answer that the only solution is to buy billions in a meme coin owned by an orange guy.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,271
    rcs1000 said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    This gives me the perfect excuse to share this song:

    https://youtu.be/C9RJQPZsj8E?si=5g3zpZfs3fwGOryt

    Probably the most played song containing the word "Chişinău" in the history of the world.
    I prefer their 2026 entry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SViojHjNSzc
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,243
    Brixian59 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd think SKS would want to withdraw for a while to lick his wounds and recover. It isn't as though he willingly made way for a successor. Expecting him to turn up at Cabinet like a former owner become a guest seems a bit of a stretch.

    I did note that Burnham could keep Cooper at the Foreign Office for a bit then Starmer takes over, so it doesn't have to be immediate.
    Starmer is far more likely to end up at NATO in my opinion
    Trump hates him. Not going to happen.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,217

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    Of course, if the models ever get trained on US high level foreign policy discussions from recent years, the the answer to any question will, I guess, be bomb Iran!
    What utter nonsense.

    Such a model would obviously answer that the only solution is to buy billions in a meme coin owned by an orange guy.
    The US has seemed to be fixated on bombing Iran for years, particularly the republicans - even the anti-Trumpers (Bolton, Haley) had it as a hobby horse for years.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,217

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    Of course, if the models ever get trained on US high level foreign policy discussions from recent years, the the answer to any question will, I guess, be bomb Iran!
    What utter nonsense.

    Such a model would obviously answer that the only solution is to buy billions in a meme coin owned by an orange guy.
    The US has seemed to be fixated on bombing Iran for years, particularly the republicans - even the anti-Trumpers (Bolton, Haley) had it as a hobby horse for years.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,451
    viewcode said:

    Brixian59 said:

    AnneJGP said:

    I'd think SKS would want to withdraw for a while to lick his wounds and recover. It isn't as though he willingly made way for a successor. Expecting him to turn up at Cabinet like a former owner become a guest seems a bit of a stretch.

    I did note that Burnham could keep Cooper at the Foreign Office for a bit then Starmer takes over, so it doesn't have to be immediate.
    Starmer is far more likely to end up at NATO in my opinion
    Dear God, no, he'd be awful. He should never be in an important job that involves people's lives. He's a lawyer. Let him go back to that. He can charge a lot of money for doing things that are checked by others, constrained by the law, overseen by a judge, and assessed by a jury. That way he will cause minimum damage.
    Someone who underfunded defence by 14 billion on his own review ends up in NATO

    Not going to happen

    Macron might in a few years
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,771
    Pulpstar said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Chancellor and Foreign Sec is a little beyond even his talents.

    Give FS to Carns, with the sole brief of shaking Trump extremely firmly by the hand until he surrenders.

    He can multitask, just like I can.
    The cabinet* should lead on Britain's productivity crisis by taking on multiple roles. With AI assistance. What could go wrong?

    *Might be able to slim it down enough to make it a drawer!
    I tested this plan by asking Copilot, "What should the UK Government's response be to the constitutional crisis around delayed elections in Gagauzia?" It recommended:

    The UK should treat Gagauzia’s crisis as a rule‑of‑law and security issue in Moldova’s neighbourhood: back Chişinău’s constitutional framework, push hard (but quietly) for rapid, credible elections under national law, and work with EU/US/OSCE to deter spoilers—especially those linked to Russian influence—while visibly engaging Gagauz society so this doesn’t look like “London vs Gagauzia” but “London for free elections in Gagauzia”.

    I think that's probably a better answer than 87% of MPs could come up with unaided. It then offered to sketch a short ministerial statement that looked good. I hereby approve Selebian's plan.
    Of course, if the models ever get trained on US high level foreign policy discussions from recent years, the the answer to any question will, I guess, be bomb Iran!
    What utter nonsense.

    Such a model would obviously answer that the only solution is to buy billions in a meme coin owned by an orange guy.
    The US has seemed to be fixated on bombing Iran for years, particularly the republicans - even the anti-Trumpers (Bolton, Haley) had it as a hobby horse for years.
    Well, as Hillary Clinton was discussing recently it was something Israel had been lobbying for going back years, especially when Bibi was in charge

    This gung ho, bombs for all approach, would resonate with nutters like Bolton.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,051
    Viewcode said:

    Bar.

    Viewcode said:

    Bar.

    Viewcode said:

    Bar.

    Viewcode said:

    Bar.

    Barbara-Ann

  • CharlieSharkCharlieShark Posts: 476
    Laughable that anyone thinks that a new PM would appoint the most disliked person in politics into any role. (Only Starmer would be crazy enough to do that - see Mandelson.) He is utterly unsuited to anything in politics. Into NATO, are you losing your mind.

    Let him retire, quietly, only to be seen in November placing a wreath. In a couple of decades he may have recovered a few percentage points as memories fade.
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