The latest Makerfield betting – politicalbetting.com

System · 10:57AM

The latest Makerfield betting – politicalbetting.com

Unsurprisingly the latest Makerfield poll has had an effect on the betting. The key takeaway for me is that the Reform + Restore score is less than the Labour score.

Read the full story here

dixiedean · 10:59AM

First.

viewcode · 11:00AM

Second. The first after First. It's a more considered, thoughtful First than First's rushed first draft of firstness. It is, in some ways, a better First than the actual First, who was only the first First due to an accident of chronology

SandyRentool · 11:01AM

Well outside the top two, like the party of opposition.

SandyRentool · 11:05AM

It is looking more likely that the person who believes he should have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate will indeed have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate. And then he can totally ignore the flooding in Makerfield.

At least we'll have a by-election for Mayor of Greater Manchester to look forward to.

Mexicanpete · 11:06AM

kinabalu said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?

That's often advanced as being the perfect pop song. For which 'short' is a key metric. The perfect pop song can't be more than 2 mins 30 secs.

John Peel's favourite. It is a timeless classic. There is something ethereal about Shelley's delivery of Ever Fallen in Love.

kinabalu · 11:08AM

Not to tempt fate but my initial gut feeling about this byelection (Burnham will walk it) might well turn out to be correct. I didn't, sadly, back it up with much £££ at the 1.7 at which he opened. Some others (Dixie?) did iirc.

Cookie · 11:08AM

FPT:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent

I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.

SandyRentool · 11:09AM

FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

kinabalu · 11:11AM

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

They should have kept that - more realistic,

Malmesbury · 11:11AM

SandyRentool said:
It is looking more likely that the person who believes he should have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate will indeed have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate. And then he can totally ignore the flooding in Makerfield.

At least we'll have a by-election for Mayor of Greater Manchester to look forward to.

To be fair, he seems to think he should get elected to Parliament, then selected by the Parliamentary Labour party as a candidate, then get elected as leader of the party.

That sounds like fair amount of "getting elected" vs "having the job handed to him"

kinabalu · 11:12AM

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.

My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.

Jonathan · 11:14AM

It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.

WhisperingOracle · 11:14AM

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.
My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.

Yes, my sister was also besotted with Roland Gift. He was a major heartthrob for teens and twentysomethings at the time.

Also Simon Le Bon.

OnlyLivingBoy · 11:14AM

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

Wait till people find out what Golden Brown is about!

OnlyLivingBoy · 11:16AM

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.

Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.

Jonathan · 11:16AM

FWIW I have revised my opinion on Badenoch this week. It was good to see her take a distinct position. I hope it continues. The nation needs a viable centre right Reform alternative.

Mexicanpete · 11:18AM

kinabalu said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".
They should have kept that - more realistic,

Different song but Sharkey created one of the greatest lines in Rock and Roll history. "He always beat me at Subbuteo, 'Cause he 'flicked to kick' And I didn't know".

Jonathan · 11:20AM

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.

They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.

Cookie · 11:24AM

On thread: Once again, I marvel at the missed opportunity of Reform.

There was a big unserved area in British Politics: vaguely left on economic issues, right on cultural issues. Not necessarily totally to my taste, but tailor-made for places like Makerfield.
Reform toyed with this bit f the political map - then turned a good thirty degrees rightwards on both economics and culture. It's no wonder they're not really hitting the back of the net. It's no wonder also that they appear to be recruiting a lot of characters who have rather dubious histories.
It should be possible to articulate a position rather firmer on illegal immigration without going full on expel-anyone-whose-great-grandparents-weren't-born-here. It should be possible to articulate a party sceptical of the excesses of identity politics without going full-on Trump. It should be possible to leave those areas of the American culture wars which we've happily managed to avoid - like abortion - well alone.

But perhaps it's not possible to start a new party from scratch. Perhaps everyone who is a) keen on politics and b) keen on balanced and sane solutions is already in other parties so if you're trying to garner thousands of new members and potential politicians from scratch you are effectively left with the angry outsiders, which then skews your party wildly away from the bits of the electorate you thought you might serve.

OnlyLivingBoy · 11:24AM

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.
My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.

My wife had a thing for Damon Albarn, who I looked a lot more like when we started going out than I do now...

Northern_Al · 11:25AM

WhisperingOracle said:

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.
My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.
Yes, my sister was also besotted with Roland Gift. He was a major heartthrob for teens and twentysomethings at the time.

Also Simon Le Bon.

My female peers' (and the odd male) favourite heartthrob was Kevin Rowland of Dexy's.
I bought some dungarees to try to replicate the image. It didn't work.

Cookie · 11:26AM

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".
They should have kept that - more realistic,
Different song but Sharkey created one of the greatest lines in Rock and Roll history. "He always beat me at Subbuteo, 'Cause he 'flicked to kick' And I didn't know".

"His mother bought him a synthesiser,
Got the Human League into advise 'er."

bondegezou · 11:27AM

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

Other songs on the topic include t.A.T.u.’s “Робот” (“Robot”), https://youtu.be/KP1GcK2-TK0 , which is probably why it was omitted from the English-language version of their debut album.

Nigelb · 11:28AM

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?

That's often advanced as being the perfect pop song. For which 'short' is a key metric. The perfect pop song can't be more than 2 mins 30 secs.
John Peel's favourite. It is a timeless classic. There is something ethereal about Shelley's delivery...

The fountains mingle with the river
And the rivers with the ocean,
The winds of heaven mix for ever
With a sweet emotion;
Nothing in the world is single;
All things by a law divine
In one spirit meet and mingle.
Why not I with thine...

?

PeterCairns · 11:29AM

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".
They should have kept that - more realistic,
Different song but Sharkey created one of the greatest lines in Rock and Roll history. "He always beat me at Subbuteo, 'Cause he 'flicked to kick' And I didn't know".

My Sharkey favourite is "Never Never!" by the Assembly...Vince Clarke before Erasure.

Peter.

Cookie · 11:29AM

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?

Malmesbury · 11:31AM

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.

Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.

Jonathan · 11:31AM

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.
My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.

Saw Roland Gift as Romeo at a memorable schools Shakespeare production at the Shaw theatre.

Despite the commitment of the the cast, the kids were not into it. They had to stop the performance to tell everyone to shut up. I’m not sure R&J is necessarily the play to engage teenagers.

Must have driven Roland crazy.

Mexicanpete · 11:31AM

Cookie said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".
They should have kept that - more realistic,
Different song but Sharkey created one of the greatest lines in Rock and Roll history. "He always beat me at Subbuteo, 'Cause he 'flicked to kick' And I didn't know".
"His mother bought him a synthesiser,
Got the Human League into advise 'er."

Back in the mid eighties I once saw Sharkey being dropped off at the top of Regent Street by a blond girl driving a silver Mazda RX7. I wonder what he does now?

Jonathan · 11:33AM

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.

Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.

Mexicanpete · 11:33AM

Nigelb said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?

That's often advanced as being the perfect pop song. For which 'short' is a key metric. The perfect pop song can't be more than 2 mins 30 secs.
John Peel's favourite. It is a timeless classic. There is something ethereal about Shelley's delivery...
The fountains mingle with the river
And the rivers with the ocean,
The winds of heaven mix for ever
With a sweet emotion;
Nothing in the world is single;
All things by a law divine
In one spirit meet and mingle.
Why not I with thine...

?

A different Shelley. Not the one who wrote "Love me, Love my Dog" either.

DecrepiterJohnL · 11:35AM

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?

The Winker's Song (Misprint) · Ivor Biggun (northern bloke off That's Life). Sorry to lower the tone. (nsfw)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02QdeWnfn9s

Malmesbury · 11:36AM

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.

It's an old problem, that has got worse.

Think of all the people on the Left who get a rage on when they discover politicians on the Left talk to Tories, and even socialise with them. Like they are real people or something.

PeterCairns · 11:37AM

Maybe it's me and Covers but I also prefer FYC's version of "Suspicious Minds" to Elvis! and talking of Covers, here's Max Rabb doing Queen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O-PLopk5g

Peter.

Theuniondivvie · 11:38AM

The greatest punk single is of course the first one, New Rose by The Damned.

Possibly my favourite single of all infused with bittersweet nostalgia is Another Girl. Another Planet by The Only Ones who were difficult to categorise.

Roger · 11:39AM

Wasn't it interesting to see in close up the standard of candidate put up by Reform? We don't often get to see that sort of backstage. You look at Rees Mogg or Priti Patel and marvel at what their selection committees must have seen that is completely invisible to the rest of us.

But last night there it was in glorious technicolour. A Reform candidate unvarnished and chosen by we know not who-presumably Farage?

So what's Farage's process? This guy's a plumber and a plumber won last month.....Or this guy is as rough as sand paper and thinks all women are slags! We've cracked it!

Eabhal · 11:39AM

Reform and Conservatives together got 16% of the under 35 vote in Scotland. And only 22% of those with a degree, and 23% among those aged 35-50.

As in England, Reform’s best cohort by miles is those living in council housing. And Labour’s weakest - their best group was those with household income more than £70k.

The Amerification of Scottish/UK politics is near complete.

https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54908-how-scotland-voted-in-the-2026-holyrood-election

Mexicanpete · 11:40AM

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.

That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.

kinabalu · 11:42AM

Northern_Al said:

WhisperingOracle said:

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.
My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.
Yes, my sister was also besotted with Roland Gift. He was a major heartthrob for teens and twentysomethings at the time.

Also Simon Le Bon.
My female peers' (and the odd male) favourite heartthrob was Kevin Rowland of Dexy's.
I bought some dungarees to try to replicate the image. It didn't work.

Did not do it for my mum. She used to say he looked like he needed a good wash.

Theuniondivvie · 11:42AM

PeterCairns said:
Maybe it's me and Covers but I also prefer FYC's version of "Suspicious Minds" to Elvis! and talking of Covers, here's Max Rabb doing Queen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O-PLopk5g

Peter.

Another Max Rabb fan!
I have a definite weakness for covers in the style of the Jazz/big band age. Bryan Ferry is of course the master of this.

Taz · 11:43AM

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

As was Angel Fingers by Wizzard

rcs1000 · 11:44AM

OnlyLivingBoy said:

kinabalu said:

Cookie said:
FPT:
Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Dopermean said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Taz said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2026/jun/05/i-knew-it-was-over-for-us-the-bands-who-got-left-behind-when-punk-exploded

A fascinating article about the lost world of rock that got blown away by punk.
I can't stand punk music personally, except for the more new wave stuff that is sometimes bundled up with it, like the Stranglers or Blondie. Call me old fashioned, but I like songs with a tune. I don't really like the gobby attitude associated with it either. I turned 1 in 1976 so I was a bit young for it all anyway.
People also conveniently forget Punk rocks flirtation with the Far rights and Nazi symbolism.

A very seedy underbelly to punk.

Although, nice tunes.
Yeah I was trying to keep this politics free but very much agree on the far right aspect, another reason why I don't care for punk much, apart from the paucity of tunes and the spitting.
I didn’t care for the spitting either. Vile habit.

Music wise I quite liked some of the stuff, probably more new wave. I like guitar based music.
I could listen to the Stranglers all day.
Gordon Brown texture like sun
Never a frown with Gordon Brown
Was going to take up OLB's suggestion but was then reminded about the cricket.
Maybe after lunch when the cricket's over...
I like punk. I like guitar music, I like fast guitar music. I value energy over finesse. I reckon if you lined up all the members of this board in order of how much they like punk, I would be in the top handful. I also quite like punk's less talented offshoot, Oi.
And yet, I will admit that 90% of punk isn't very good. You don't need to be the best musician in the world to produce something interesting, but you do need a spark of creativity.
If you have 1000 albums in your collection, one of them really needs to be Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols. It is genuinely one of the best albums of all time. That was basically all they did though. London Calling by the Clash is a fine album, but is it punk? Probably not, by that stage. And also you need something by the Buzzcocks. Beyond that I'd say it all gets a bit optional.
But it was a very brief movement. 1976-1978 at the longest. Almost everything after mid-1978 was either New Wave or Oi.

(Mind you, New Wave could keep you going for a lifetime.)
Ever Fallen in Love (With Someone You Shouldn't've) is quite possibly one of the finest "pop" songs ever written.

I remember Peter Shelley at Malvern Winter Gardens pleading with the punks to "stop spitting".
The Fine Young Cannibals version is excellent
I quite liked the FYCs when they were around - when I was about 10-12 - without really knowing why. It turns out - I only recently discovered this - most of the FYCs were in The Beat. Suddenly everything falls into place.
My first wife had a mega thing for Roland Gift. Who I didn't resemble in any way shape or form.
My wife had a thing for Damon Albarn, who I looked a lot more like when we started going out than I do now...

He's aged rather poorly, hasn't he?

Big_G_NorthWales · 11:44AM

Roger said:
Wasn't it interesting to see in close up the standard of candidate put up by Reform? We don't often get to see that sort of backstage. You look at Rees Mogg or Priti Patel and marvel at what their selection committees must have seen that is completely invisible to the rest of us.

But last night there it was in glorious technicolour. A Reform candidate unvarnished and chosen by we know not who-presumably Farage?

So what's Farage's process? This guy's a plumber and a plumber won last month.....Or this guy is as rough as sand paper and thinks all women are slags! We've cracked it!

As bad as he was the Green candidate was simply a joke [bad one]

Taz · 11:44AM

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?

The Wankers Song by Ivor Biggun

Mexicanpete · 11:46AM

Taz said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
The Wankers Song by Ivor Biggun

"Winkers Song"

Jonathan · 11:46AM

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.
That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.

Thatcher , Major, Cameron and Johnson all actively reached beyond the tribe.

In the old world it was THE only winning strategy. Unfortunately social media and fragmentation has changed that equation slightly where you can go far with a highly motivated core, but it’s still the best approach for centre left and right IMO. At least that’s my hope.

Taz · 11:49AM

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.

That won’t happen here. The Greens have picked an utter imbecile as a candidate. Deliberately so I’d wager to give Burnham a free run

DougSeal · 11:50AM

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?

Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission

Mexicanpete · 11:52AM

Jonathan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.
That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.
Thatcher , Major, Cameron and Johnson all actively reached beyond the tribe.

In the old world it was THE only winning strategy. Unfortunately social media and fragmentation has changed that equation slightly where you can go far with a highly motivated core, but it’s still the best approach for centre left and right IMO. At least that’s my hope.

I believe Blair, particularly as a Labour politician, eclipsed the skill of reaching outside the base moreso than even Thatcher. I think in Johnson's case that success came off the back of a disingenuous Brexit narrative by a Remainer.

It is a shame Blair turned into what he turned into.

Barnesian · 11:53AM

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.
That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.

Genius to Bananas is a well trodden path, including on here.

Cookie · 11:56AM

Theuniondivvie said:

PeterCairns said:
Maybe it's me and Covers but I also prefer FYC's version of "Suspicious Minds" to Elvis! and talking of Covers, here's Max Rabb doing Queen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O-PLopk5g

Peter.
Another Max Rabb fan!
I have a definite weakness for covers in the style of the Jazz/big band age. Bryan Ferry is of course the master of this.

I take it you're aware of the work of Scott Bradlee's Postmodern Jukebox?

I have a weakness for pretty much any well known song in the style of another genre.

PeterCairns · 11:57AM

Theuniondivvie said:

PeterCairns said:
Maybe it's me and Covers but I also prefer FYC's version of "Suspicious Minds" to Elvis! and talking of Covers, here's Max Rabb doing Queen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O-PLopk5g

Peter.
Another Max Rabb fan!
I have a definite weakness for covers in the style of the Jazz/big band age. Bryan Ferry is of course the master of this.

I think he also did a "We are the Champions!" cover...but a bit to third Reich to be posting!

It's up there with "Springtime for Hitler!"

Peter.

WhisperingOracle · 11:58AM

Barnesian said:

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.
That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.
Genius to Bananas is a well trodden path, including on here.

I always think goimg bananas never sounded bettet thsn on here.

https://youtu.be/l7gRi2dn74s?si=P8CJcUYw4vvx-0-4

bondegezou · 11:58AM

DougSeal said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission

Cyndi Lauper’s “She Bop”, as well as t.A.T.u.’s “Robot”, as I mentioned upthread.

And should we mention Radiohead’s “Thinking About You”?

Malmesbury · 11:58AM

Barnesian said:

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.
That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.
Genius to Bananas is a well trodden path, including on here.

"NO! Poor people are crazy, Jack. I'm eccentric."

Nigelb · 11:59AM

bondegezou said:

DougSeal said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission
Cyndi Lauper’s “She Bop”, as well as t.A.T.u.’s “Robot”, as I mentioned upthread.

And should we mention Radiohead’s “Thinking About You”?

No.

Cookie · 12:01PM

On Makerfield: seemingly Reform have used the stylised images of Andy Burnham of a well-known local graphic designer in their election literature without permission, and said graphic designer is most unhappy and planning legal action.

BatteryCorrectHorse · 12:01PM

https://x.com/lordashcroft/status/2062867029900636380

The Makerfield dilemma: change now with Burnham (maybe) or bigger change later (maybe) with Reform?

As I’ve said many times, people still want Labour to deliver change. All to play for.

DavidL · 12:07PM

Duckett rather throws it away just as England were getting properly on top. Hey ho.

Wulfrun_Phil · 12:08PM

I spent half a day doorknocking in Makerfield last Sunday, in two different locations. There were some favourable responses for Burnham who had good name recognition and was personally known to a couple of people I met, but there were quite a few Reform and hostile against responses too. We did quite a bit of driving across about 5 miles of the constituency and in that time and during doorknocking I spotted about 20 homes with Reform stakes/posters compared with about 10 for Labour and 1 Restore, although I don't think you can take too much heed of the relative numbers for Reform v Labour (based on an appreciation that if willingness to display a poster was a reliable indicator of relative support, the Conservatives wouldn't have won a general election in my lifetime.) What was striking was just how many people were not aware of the national implications if Burnham won and the Labour campaign approach was not to mention that. That approach might change a bit now that Burnham has made clear his intentions. A couple of Reform supporters appeared to genuinely equivocate once I went off script and pointed out that if Burnham wins Starmer would probably be out of the door in months.

The overall impression was that it certainly wasn't in the bag for Burnham so I would counsel against going all in on Burnham based on the latest Survation polling. With a lot still in play I don't find odds of 2/9 on attractive although Burnham should still be favourite.

PeterCairns · 12:08PM

Nigelb said:

bondegezou said:

DougSeal said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission
Cyndi Lauper’s “She Bop”, as well as t.A.T.u.’s “Robot”, as I mentioned upthread.

And should we mention Radiohead’s “Thinking About You”?
No.

What about London Beat then?

Peter.

MattW · 12:09PM

Cookie said:
On thread: Once again, I marvel at the missed opportunity of Reform.

There was a big unserved area in British Politics: vaguely left on economic issues, right on cultural issues. Not necessarily totally to my taste, but tailor-made for places like Makerfield.
Reform toyed with this bit f the political map - then turned a good thirty degrees rightwards on both economics and culture. It's no wonder they're not really hitting the back of the net. It's no wonder also that they appear to be recruiting a lot of characters who have rather dubious histories.
It should be possible to articulate a position rather firmer on illegal immigration without going full on expel-anyone-whose-great-grandparents-weren't-born-here. It should be possible to articulate a party sceptical of the excesses of identity politics without going full-on Trump. It should be possible to leave those areas of the American culture wars which we've happily managed to avoid - like abortion - well alone.

AIUI right wing politics (on immigration / race) that is essentially Oswald Mosley early 1950s version, which is where Rupert has pitched his tent.

I don't know the BUF positions in detail.

But the left wing parts of Mosley's journey are worth noting, too.

The position you describe could also be done from the left, as istm that the positions on both wings are identity politics - ethno-nationalism as much as the latest elaboration of PQRSTUVXYZ when taken too far.

Mexicanpete · 12:09PM

Nigelb said:

bondegezou said:

DougSeal said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission
Cyndi Lauper’s “She Bop”, as well as t.A.T.u.’s “Robot”, as I mentioned upthread.

And should we mention Radiohead’s “Thinking About You”?
No.

⚒️

PeterCairns · 12:11PM

Mexicanpete said:

Nigelb said:

bondegezou said:

DougSeal said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission
Cyndi Lauper’s “She Bop”, as well as t.A.T.u.’s “Robot”, as I mentioned upthread.

And should we mention Radiohead’s “Thinking About You”?
No.
⚒️

Are those Pink Floyd Hammers?

Peter.

Mexicanpete · 12:11PM

US delegation at the Russian Davos includes Steven Segal and Candace Owens.

Mexicanpete · 12:12PM

PeterCairns said:

Mexicanpete said:

Nigelb said:

bondegezou said:

DougSeal said:

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?
Orgasm Addict by the Buzzcocks is the obvious omission
Cyndi Lauper’s “She Bop”, as well as t.A.T.u.’s “Robot”, as I mentioned upthread.

And should we mention Radiohead’s “Thinking About You”?
No.
⚒️
Are those Pink Floyd Hammers?

Peter.

Ban hammers.

Mexicanpete · 12:14PM

Interesting on Jonny Dimond WATO. Without the war in Iran Putin would be in greater economic jeopardy. He has been saved by Trump's oil price spike.

#putinslittlehelper

Theuniondivvie · 12:14PM

Cookie said:

Theuniondivvie said:

PeterCairns said:
Maybe it's me and Covers but I also prefer FYC's version of "Suspicious Minds" to Elvis! and talking of Covers, here's Max Rabb doing Queen!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3O-PLopk5g

Peter.
Another Max Rabb fan!
I have a definite weakness for covers in the style of the Jazz/big band age. Bryan Ferry is of course the master of this.
I take it you're aware of the work of Scott Bradlee's Postmodern Jukebox?

I have a weakness for pretty much any well known song in the style of another genre.

I was not, thanks for the heads up.

Wulfrun_Phil · 12:15PM

BatteryCorrectHorse said:
https://x.com/lordashcroft/status/2062867029900636380

The Makerfield dilemma: change now with Burnham (maybe) or bigger change later (maybe) with Reform?

It is not an either or option, effectively if you want change it's a shot to nothing to vote for Burnham now, because you will still have an opportunity to stick or twist at the next GE.

MarqueeMark · 12:17PM

Theuniondivvie said:
The greatest punk single is of course the first one, New Rose by The Damned.

Possibly my favourite single of all infused with bittersweet nostalgia is Another Girl. Another Planet by The Only Ones who were difficult to categorise.

Saw The Damned several times. Always fun.

They once appeared and took over a show by said The Only Ones.

(Years later, saw Rat Scabies drumming for Donovan. Which was weird!)

Punk band worthy of an honourable mention were Stiff Little Fingers. The mosh pit for "Alternative Ulster" was legendary.

And I cannot leave this subject without reference to the best punk crowd of all time. Adam and the Ants. They made vertical moshpits - anthills - which eventually got too high to be stable, They inevitably collapsed - then everyone helped everyone get up and it all started again.

There were 1,000 fans locked outside without tickets. Messy.

Theuniondivvie · 12:18PM

Elon’s thick as shit isn’t he?

https://x.com/allyfogg/status/2062827068539199800?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

Simon_Peach · 12:21PM

As a naive 16 year old in 1976 I got the job of students union vice president at Hull College of Further Education (stood as FCS candidate for those with a long memory). We booked the Stranglers to appear on May 6 1977 but they pulled out due to a TV appearance in Hamburg. Agent sent along Jonny Thunders Heartbreakers instead - New York punk band, sort of New York Dolls without the softer edges. Total riot ensued, crowd trashed the place, door money stolen and cleaners nearly went on strike on the Monday due to the number of used “prophylactics” in the bands changing room. Simpler times.

IanB2 · 12:23PM

Malmesbury said:

SandyRentool said:
It is looking more likely that the person who believes he should have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate will indeed have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate. And then he can totally ignore the flooding in Makerfield.

At least we'll have a by-election for Mayor of Greater Manchester to look forward to.
To be fair, he seems to think he should get elected to Parliament, then selected by the Parliamentary Labour party as a candidate, then get elected as leader of the party.

That sounds like fair amount of "getting elected" vs "having the job handed to him"

Despite Streeting’s bullish talk, he’d be a fool to force a contest against Burnham assuming the latter lands a convincing by-election win. He’d kill his future prospects à la Liz Kendall, whereas he’s young enough to bide his time and hope a better chance comes along.

Mexicanpete · 12:24PM

Theuniondivvie said:
Elon’s thick as shit isn’t he?

https://x.com/allyfogg/status/2062827068539199800?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

The comments are interesting. "I'll just put Franco in the good guy column".

Theuniondivvie · 12:24PM

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:
The greatest punk single is of course the first one, New Rose by The Damned.

Possibly my favourite single of all infused with bittersweet nostalgia is Another Girl. Another Planet by The Only Ones who were difficult to categorise.

Saw The Damned several times. Always fun.

They once appeared and took over a show by said The Only Ones.

(Years later, saw Rat Scabies drumming for Donovan. Which was weird!)

Punk band worthy of an honourable mention were Stiff Little Fingers. The mosh pit for "Alternative Ulster" was legendary.

And I cannot leave this subject without reference to the best punk crowd of all time. Adam and the Ants. They made vertical moshpits - anthills - which eventually got too high to be stable, They inevitably collapsed - then everyone helped everyone get up and it all started again.

There were 1,000 fans locked outside without tickets. Messy.

SLF’s St Paddy’s Day gigs at Glasgow Barrowlands have become legendary, almost on a par with The Pogues. They’ve become rather portly so hopefully there’s no leaping into the mosh pit.

BartholomewRoberts · 12:29PM

Who could have forecast at Tea yesterday that England would go into Lunch today at effectively 99/1 for the second innings?

Remarkable.

MarqueeMark · 12:29PM

Mexicanpete said:
Interesting on Jonny Dimond WATO. Without the war in Iran Putin would be in greater economic jeopardy. He has been saved by Trump's oil price spike.

#putinslittlehelper

But equally, that has been a spur to Ukraine trashing Russia's export capacity - notwithstanding pressure from Washington not to.

Casino_Royale · 12:32PM

Jonathan said:

Mexicanpete said:

Jonathan said:

Malmesbury said:

Jonathan said:

OnlyLivingBoy said:

Jonathan said:
It’s worth remembering that Reform lost their last must win by election to the greens.

They have vastly increased support, but perhaps right now still not enough despite dominating the conversation on social media.
Reform are first and foremost a content creation outfit for social media.
They need to be taken seriously as a result. He seeks attention and largely this week got it. Trump playbook 101. By condemning him, he was given energy.

I wouldn’t use Badenochs words, but her diagnosis that we’re living in dangerous times is correct. One side simply cannot understand the other.
Several of the sides in modern politics see not understanding their opponents as a virtue.
Which is a real problem. You end up with political mistakes like “the deplorables”. The more successful politicians have always looked beyond the tribe. Unfortunately social media rewards bubbles. So we end up polarised.
That was Blair's genius, before he went bananas.
Thatcher , Major, Cameron and Johnson all actively reached beyond the tribe.

In the old world it was THE only winning strategy. Unfortunately social media and fragmentation has changed that equation slightly where you can go far with a highly motivated core, but it’s still the best approach for centre left and right IMO. At least that’s my hope.

Hear hear.

Mexicanpete · 12:33PM

Jonny Dimond on BBC WATO crushing this Government for losing control of the asylum and immigration system. A report by a very nasal Conservative Committee Chair (Sir Geoffrey Clifton Brown) is being discussed.

WhisperingOracle · 12:35PM

Simon_Peach said:
As a naive 16 year old in 1976 I got the job of students union vice president at Hull College of Further Education (stood as FCS candidate for those with a long memory). We booked the Stranglers to appear on May 6 1977 but they pulled out due to a TV appearance in Hamburg. Agent sent along Jonny Thunders Heartbreakers instead - New York punk band, sort of New York Dolls without the softer edges. Total riot ensued, crowd trashed the place, door money stolen and cleaners nearly went on strike on the Monday due to the number of used “prophylactics” in the bands changing room. Simpler times.

Sounds similar to Suzanne Moore's memories of the time. Endless threats of random violence in the crowd hanging over the atmosphere of many punk gigs.

Luckyguy1983 · 12:40PM

Cookie said:
On thread: Once again, I marvel at the missed opportunity of Reform.

There was a big unserved area in British Politics: vaguely left on economic issues, right on cultural issues. Not necessarily totally to my taste, but tailor-made for places like Makerfield.
Reform toyed with this bit f the political map - then turned a good thirty degrees rightwards on both economics and culture. It's no wonder they're not really hitting the back of the net. It's no wonder also that they appear to be recruiting a lot of characters who have rather dubious histories.
It should be possible to articulate a position rather firmer on illegal immigration without going full on expel-anyone-whose-great-grandparents-weren't-born-here. It should be possible to articulate a party sceptical of the excesses of identity politics without going full-on Trump. It should be possible to leave those areas of the American culture wars which we've happily managed to avoid - like abortion - well alone.

But perhaps it's not possible to start a new party from scratch. Perhaps everyone who is a) keen on politics and b) keen on balanced and sane solutions is already in other parties so if you're trying to garner thousands of new members and potential politicians from scratch you are effectively left with the angry outsiders, which then skews your party wildly away from the bits of the electorate you thought you might serve.

I think we should remember Reform's age. It's like comparing adults with a 12 year old who happens to be 6ft following a massive growth spurt.

Starry · 12:40PM

MarqueeMark said:

Theuniondivvie said:
The greatest punk single is of course the first one, New Rose by The Damned.

Possibly my favourite single of all infused with bittersweet nostalgia is Another Girl. Another Planet by The Only Ones who were difficult to categorise.

Saw The Damned several times. Always fun.

They once appeared and took over a show by said The Only Ones.

(Years later, saw Rat Scabies drumming for Donovan. Which was weird!)

Punk band worthy of an honourable mention were Stiff Little Fingers. The mosh pit for "Alternative Ulster" was legendary.

And I cannot leave this subject without reference to the best punk crowd of all time. Adam and the Ants. They made vertical moshpits - anthills - which eventually got too high to be stable, They inevitably collapsed - then everyone helped everyone get up and it all started again.

There were 1,000 fans locked outside without tickets. Messy.

Love the Only Ones, but they were just around punk rather than punk. More a mix of glam and post-punk before it was post (mind you, the ultimate post-punkers, Joy Division, thought they were absolutely punk).

Taz · 12:58PM

Mexicanpete said:
Interesting on Jonny Dimond WATO. Without the war in Iran Putin would be in greater economic jeopardy. He has been saved by Trump's oil price spike.

#putinslittlehelper

The war was at Bibi and Mossads behest.

Taz · 12:59PM

WhisperingOracle said:

Simon_Peach said:
As a naive 16 year old in 1976 I got the job of students union vice president at Hull College of Further Education (stood as FCS candidate for those with a long memory). We booked the Stranglers to appear on May 6 1977 but they pulled out due to a TV appearance in Hamburg. Agent sent along Jonny Thunders Heartbreakers instead - New York punk band, sort of New York Dolls without the softer edges. Total riot ensued, crowd trashed the place, door money stolen and cleaners nearly went on strike on the Monday due to the number of used “prophylactics” in the bands changing room. Simpler times.
Sounds similar to Suzanne Moore's memories of the time. Endless threats of random violence in the crowd hanging over the atmosphere of many punk gigs.

Bit like soccer matches at time

‘Where the English go to hate’

Andy_JS · 1:01PM

New Zealand should have had an LBW just now but didn't review it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/live/cwyw7kw2g02t

Battlebus · 1:06PM

Theuniondivvie said:
Elon’s thick as shit isn’t he?

https://x.com/allyfogg/status/2062827068539199800?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

Orwell's own words about the Spanish Civil War - which you never mention when in Spain.

https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/looking-back-on-the-spanish-war/

SandyRentool · 1:08PM

Malmesbury said:

SandyRentool said:
It is looking more likely that the person who believes he should have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate will indeed have the office of Prime Minister handed to him on a plate. And then he can totally ignore the flooding in Makerfield.

At least we'll have a by-election for Mayor of Greater Manchester to look forward to.
To be fair, he seems to think he should get elected to Parliament, then selected by the Parliamentary Labour party as a candidate, then get elected as leader of the party.

That sounds like fair amount of "getting elected" vs "having the job handed to him"

Having the leadership contest put on hold until he is eligible.

Getting a mate to resign a "safe" seat right next door to the constituency he used to represent.

Having everyone else on the soft-left of the party give him a free ride in the forthcoming leadership contest.

Having the job handed to him.

OnlyLivingBoy · 1:10PM

Luckyguy1983 said:

Cookie said:
On thread: Once again, I marvel at the missed opportunity of Reform.

There was a big unserved area in British Politics: vaguely left on economic issues, right on cultural issues. Not necessarily totally to my taste, but tailor-made for places like Makerfield.
Reform toyed with this bit f the political map - then turned a good thirty degrees rightwards on both economics and culture. It's no wonder they're not really hitting the back of the net. It's no wonder also that they appear to be recruiting a lot of characters who have rather dubious histories.
It should be possible to articulate a position rather firmer on illegal immigration without going full on expel-anyone-whose-great-grandparents-weren't-born-here. It should be possible to articulate a party sceptical of the excesses of identity politics without going full-on Trump. It should be possible to leave those areas of the American culture wars which we've happily managed to avoid - like abortion - well alone.

But perhaps it's not possible to start a new party from scratch. Perhaps everyone who is a) keen on politics and b) keen on balanced and sane solutions is already in other parties so if you're trying to garner thousands of new members and potential politicians from scratch you are effectively left with the angry outsiders, which then skews your party wildly away from the bits of the electorate you thought you might serve.
I think we should remember Reform's age. It's like comparing adults with a 12 year old who happens to be 6ft following a massive growth spurt.

We should also remember that Reform is led by unreconstructed Thatcherites and funded by various dodgy billionaires so the idea that it will ever be a credible vehicle for left of centre economic policies is frankly laughable.

Dura_Ace · 1:11PM

Cookie said:
On Makerfield: seemingly Reform have used the stylised images of Andy Burnham of a well-known local graphic designer in their election literature without permission, and said graphic designer is most unhappy and planning legal action.

They won't give a fuck. They aren't short of a Baht/₿ or two.

Nigelb · 1:11PM

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:
Interesting on Jonny Dimond WATO. Without the war in Iran Putin would be in greater economic jeopardy. He has been saved by Trump's oil price spike.

#putinslittlehelper
The war was at Bibi and Mossads behest.

The Jerusalem Post has a story which has Mossad planning for the war to last a year in order to topple the regime...

Nigelb · 1:12PM

Luckyguy1983 said:

Cookie said:
On thread: Once again, I marvel at the missed opportunity of Reform.

There was a big unserved area in British Politics: vaguely left on economic issues, right on cultural issues. Not necessarily totally to my taste, but tailor-made for places like Makerfield.
Reform toyed with this bit f the political map - then turned a good thirty degrees rightwards on both economics and culture. It's no wonder they're not really hitting the back of the net. It's no wonder also that they appear to be recruiting a lot of characters who have rather dubious histories.
It should be possible to articulate a position rather firmer on illegal immigration without going full on expel-anyone-whose-great-grandparents-weren't-born-here. It should be possible to articulate a party sceptical of the excesses of identity politics without going full-on Trump. It should be possible to leave those areas of the American culture wars which we've happily managed to avoid - like abortion - well alone.

But perhaps it's not possible to start a new party from scratch. Perhaps everyone who is a) keen on politics and b) keen on balanced and sane solutions is already in other parties so if you're trying to garner thousands of new members and potential politicians from scratch you are effectively left with the angry outsiders, which then skews your party wildly away from the bits of the electorate you thought you might serve.
I think we should remember Reform's age. It's like comparing adults with a 12 year old who happens to be 6ft following a massive growth spurt.

Nigel Farage is 62.
The precedent is not promising.

SandyRentool · 1:13PM

Cookie said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".

I did not know that.

Other songs about masturbation:

Blister in the Sun - Violent Femmes
Turning Japanese - the Vapors
I Touch Myself - the Divinyls
Longview - Greenday

Any others?

Captain Jack by Billy Joel includes the lines:

Your sister's gone out, she's on a date
You just sit at home and masturbate

Nigelb · 1:13PM

Trump officials planned to mark 2.7 million living people as dead, whistleblower says
https://x.com/bresreports/status/2062852436239294643

Taz · 1:14PM

Nigelb said:

Taz said:

Mexicanpete said:
Interesting on Jonny Dimond WATO. Without the war in Iran Putin would be in greater economic jeopardy. He has been saved by Trump's oil price spike.

#putinslittlehelper
The war was at Bibi and Mossads behest.
The Jerusalem Post has a story which has Mossad planning for the war to last a year in order to topple the regime...

They’re clueless.

Dura_Ace · 1:19PM

Theuniondivvie said:
Elon’s thick as shit isn’t he?

https://x.com/allyfogg/status/2062827068539199800?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

No. He's not stupid in any conventional sense of the term. He's just not particularly well educated or informed outside of a few narrow technical fields. He's also surrounded by lackeys meatriding him 25/8 and is more or less fucked on drugs. All of that leads to shallow and misinformed shitposting coloured by his long-standing obsession with the racial and religious demographics of some Western countries.

malcolmg · 1:22PM

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".
They should have kept that - more realistic,
Different song but Sharkey created one of the greatest lines in Rock and Roll history. "He always beat me at Subbuteo, 'Cause he 'flicked to kick' And I didn't know".
"His mother bought him a synthesiser,
Got the Human League into advise 'er."
Back in the mid eighties I once saw Sharkey being dropped off at the top of Regent Street by a blond girl driving a silver Mazda RX7. I wonder what he does now?

he tests rivers for crap and campaigns against water boards

Battlebus · 1:27PM

Another reason to avoid using AI. Apparently it's woke after being taken over by liberals and the radical left.

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/5909906-ai-bias-american-narrative/

Dura_Ace · 1:27PM

Mexicanpete said:

Cookie said:

Mexicanpete said:

kinabalu said:

SandyRentool said:
FPT: "What about Teenage Kicks by the Undertones?"

A song originally about masturbation, until they changed the word "it" to "her".
They should have kept that - more realistic,
Different song but Sharkey created one of the greatest lines in Rock and Roll history. "He always beat me at Subbuteo, 'Cause he 'flicked to kick' And I didn't know".
"His mother bought him a synthesiser,
Got the Human League into advise 'er."
Back in the mid eighties I once saw Sharkey being dropped off at the top of Regent Street by a blond girl driving a silver Mazda RX7. I wonder what he does now?

This is a shit anecdote unless we know whether it was an FB or FC.

SandyRentool · 1:36PM

"Man admits sending death threat to councillor"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgjpjd5595po

Councillor for where I live.

Fairliered · 1:38PM

Dura_Ace said:

Theuniondivvie said:
Elon’s thick as shit isn’t he?

https://x.com/allyfogg/status/2062827068539199800?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
No. He's not stupid in any conventional sense of the term. He's just not particularly well educated or informed outside of a few narrow technical fields. He's also surrounded by lackeys meatriding him 25/8 and is more or less fucked on drugs. All of that leads to shallow and misinformed shitposting coloured by his long-standing obsession with the racial and religious demographics of some Western countries.

I thought you were talking about Leon, not Musk.

The latest Makerfield betting – politicalbetting.com

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