One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet
Probably going to watch Millwall and West Ham, among other teams.
The real cultural change came in the early nineties when everyone, of that generation, became loved up on drugs and acid house crap/raves.
Yep, I remember the police at the time only ever talking about drugs, drugs, drugs.
What they mostly didn’t talk about, is how several thousand people could be at a rave for 12 hours and there to be almost no disturbances, just people having a good time.
As The Shamen once sang, E’s are good.
So the fact it was against the law, for more than one reason, didn't matter. People could just decide to do what they wanted.
It mattered very much that drugs were illegal.
My point was that there was a significant drop in public order issues in the early ‘90s, as a culture that led to a lot of young men socialising around football and drinking, was replaced with a culture of young men going to raves and taking pills. The pill-poppers didn’t get in fights with each other, unlike the football fans for whom it was often the highlight of their Saturday afternoon.
Still don't stop the government at the time getting whipped up in such a state of moral indignation it introduced the 1994 Criminal Justice Act specifically to target ravers
I was at a dance music festival in Peckham a couple of weeks ago and the huge crowd of ravers leaving the event at 10.30pm was intensely happy, peaceful and relaxed, everyone floating home on a little loved up cloud of joy.
Well I'm pleased you had a nice time, but it's not for me. I went to a dance music club once. It was utterly shit. People were having a good time but they were all on drugs and you can have a good time staring at a wall listening to a metronome if you're on drugs. If the music you're playing me doesn't engender a mosh pit, I'm not really interested.
Just a question about the millions of drug users, many of them FWIW middle class, quite a lot in positions of responsibility, what are their feelings about the wholesale importers of their product serving 25 year terms in prison? It seems to me they lack friends in important places.
The fundamental thing I learned from this case is that the Police involved lack.
1) Observation skills. 2) Empathy/compassion. 3) Critical thinking skills. 4) Common sense. 5) Judgement. 6) Ability to assess a situation before acting.
All of which should be essential requirements on the person spec. How did they get employed?
Stephen Lawrence assault, lessons haven't been learnt, initial attending officers failed to administer first aid.
There needs to be strong resistance to those who want the wrong conclusions from this tragic event, this was a failure by the attending officers to correctly assess the situation, attending officers make those mistakes regardless of ethnicities.
The fundamental thing I learned from this case is that the Police involved lack.
1) Observation skills. 2) Empathy/compassion. 3) Critical thinking skills. 4) Common sense. 5) Judgement. 6) Ability to assess a situation before acting.
All of which should be essential requirements on the person spec. How did they get employed?
Stephen Lawrence assault, lessons haven't been learnt, initial attending officers failed to administer first aid.
There needs to be strong resistance to those who want the wrong conclusions from this tragic event, this was a failure by the attending officers to correctly assess the situation, attending officers make those mistakes regardless of ethnicities.
We know full well the left would not be saying that had Henry been black.
The latest ElectionMaps Nowcast shows Labour winning 80 seats, which would be a loss of 331. A bit of a no-brainer that they won't want to have an early election.
I think that if you look carefully at that map you might be able to do something Tories could do after elections like 1983. You can drive from the south coast to the Scottish border without leaving Reform seats.
My feeling is that this is a good, if cynical play, by Reform. All the other politicians appear to be showing more outrage about the outrage rather than the disgraceful policing.
Oh, I'm sure it is great for his core vote strategy. And shoring themselves up against Restore seems to be the No. 1 Reform priority this week.
But if he wants to PM (and there is some debate about whether he really actually does) then he has to win over significant numbers of normies as the american would say.
Yesterday's behaviour wont do that.
I agree with Starmer at PMQs. Farage has shown who he is:
"The grieving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leader of Reform has responded. They’ve asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstance. They make a simple plea of us as human beings to please not exploit that. That is their plea to us. We all need to reflect on those words of Henry’s father. My response – and the response of others, to be fair – has [been focused] on the lessons to be learned so we can deliver justice. His response has been to appeal for rage. That’s his response to a father who’s lost his son and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division would be wrong in any circumstances, but to do it when the family are expressly saying please don’t is unforgivable. It shows who he is."
Sadly, Starmer used the phrase “Lessons to be learned”
Which always means “Will not include Lessons. Will not include Learning.”
FFS
FFS what on earth are you on about?
As @Cyclefree will attest, the phrase Lessons Will Be Learned appears frequently in the kind of inquiries that happen years after the event, take years to conclude.
The phrase always means that it will all be swept under the carpet, no real change is needed and everyone should stop talking about it
Although it's not as if avoiding saying 'lessons will be learnt' means lessons will be learnt either. They either will or they won't, regardless of what is said or how it is said.
One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet
Probably going to watch Millwall and West Ham, among other teams.
The real cultural change came in the early nineties when everyone, of that generation, became loved up on drugs and acid house crap/raves.
Yep, I remember the police at the time only ever talking about drugs, drugs, drugs.
What they mostly didn’t talk about, is how several thousand people could be at a rave for 12 hours and there to be almost no disturbances, just people having a good time.
As The Shamen once sang, E’s are good.
So the fact it was against the law, for more than one reason, didn't matter. People could just decide to do what they wanted.
It mattered very much that drugs were illegal.
My point was that there was a significant drop in public order issues in the early ‘90s, as a culture that led to a lot of young men socialising around football and drinking, was replaced with a culture of young men going to raves and taking pills. The pill-poppers didn’t get in fights with each other, unlike the football fans for whom it was often the highlight of their Saturday afternoon.
Still don't stop the government at the time getting whipped up in such a state of moral indignation it introduced the 1994 Criminal Justice Act specifically to target ravers
I don't think it was the music or even the drugs which was the target so much as the arrival of massive parties in small rural villages. The impression was that it was an a) trespass and b) nuisance neighbour issue, though I don't know the extent to which a) was true in practice.
Oh, is this the way they say the future's meant to feel? Or just twenty thousand people standing in a field? And I don't quite understand just what this feeling is But that's okay 'cause we're all sorted out for E's and wizz
A song, I'd note, written and performed by a proper band with guitars.
Was it you who recommended Jarvis's book? If so, thank you, I loved it.
The latest ElectionMaps Nowcast shows Labour winning 80 seats, which would be a loss of 331. A bit of a no-brainer that they won't want to have an early election.
Incidentally, if someone wants to do some actual good…
Over the years, there has been a problem with deaths in police custody. This has been reduced by more attention to people appearing ill and getting them medical help faster.
The case we are discussing fits the pattern. Someone complains of being ill/injured and dies.
What can be done to improve of the work that has been done so far, to further reduce such deaths?
Think of it as really Learning Lessons.
Oh, and completely unsurprisingly, deaths in police custody are disproportionately minorities.
Until Farage started up with his rabble-rousing it never occurred to me this was a case of police bias towards ethnic minorities. It still doesn't.
But it sounds very much like a case of police jumping to a conclusion that someone was a criminal and then treating him worse than most people would treat an animal.
It’s the same pattern - person in police custody is mentally categorised as “One Of Them”, problems ignored. Cue inquest.
All lives in police custody matter?
It's still the "He's a villain, Sir" of Constable Savage, some 46 years on.
How are the BBC able to do a Makerfield Question Time without having all the candidates there? Surely that's against the law?
All 14 of them?
Liberal Democrats - Jake Austin Count Binface Party - Count Binface Labour Co-op - Andy Burnham Libertarian - Dan Clarke Independent - John Dyer Climate - Ed Gemmell Independent - Paul Gould Monster Raving Loony - Howling Laud Hope Reform - Robert Kenyon Independent - Robert Pownall Restore Britain - Rebecca Shepherd Green - Sarah Wakefield Rejoin EU - Peter Ward Conservative - Michael Winstanley
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Are there any betting odds on the results? I bet puffins do well.
Getting the public to pick them is a terrible idea.
Sticking random animals on banknotes is a terrible idea. Keep people or at least things that are specifically British. It's not like France doesn't have bees.
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Are there any betting odds on the results? I bet puffins do well.
Getting the public to pick them is a terrible idea.
Sticking random animals on banknotes is a terrible idea. Keep people or at least things that are specifically British. It's not like France doesn't have bees.
My feeling is that this is a good, if cynical play, by Reform. All the other politicians appear to be showing more outrage about the outrage rather than the disgraceful policing.
Oh, I'm sure it is great for his core vote strategy. And shoring themselves up against Restore seems to be the No. 1 Reform priority this week.
But if he wants to PM (and there is some debate about whether he really actually does) then he has to win over significant numbers of normies as the american would say.
Yesterday's behaviour wont do that.
I agree with Starmer at PMQs. Farage has shown who he is:
"The grieving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leader of Reform has responded. They’ve asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstance. They make a simple plea of us as human beings to please not exploit that. That is their plea to us. We all need to reflect on those words of Henry’s father. My response – and the response of others, to be fair – has [been focused] on the lessons to be learned so we can deliver justice. His response has been to appeal for rage. That’s his response to a father who’s lost his son and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division would be wrong in any circumstances, but to do it when the family are expressly saying please don’t is unforgivable. It shows who he is."
Sadly, Starmer used the phrase “Lessons to be learned”
Which always means “Will not include Lessons. Will not include Learning.”
FFS
FFS what on earth are you on about?
As @Cyclefree will attest, the phrase Lessons Will Be Learned appears frequently in the kind of inquiries that happen years after the event, take years to conclude.
The phrase always means that it will all be swept under the carpet, no real change is needed and everyone should stop talking about it
Although it's not as if avoiding saying 'lessons will be learnt' means lessons will be learnt either. They either will or they won't, regardless of what is said or how it is said.
It’s a Batsignal for wankerdom.
If you fired anyone who used it from public office, the.n public office would be better off.
Incidentally, if someone wants to do some actual good…
Over the years, there has been a problem with deaths in police custody. This has been reduced by more attention to people appearing ill and getting them medical help faster.
The case we are discussing fits the pattern. Someone complains of being ill/injured and dies.
What can be done to improve of the work that has been done so far, to further reduce such deaths?
Think of it as really Learning Lessons.
Oh, and completely unsurprisingly, deaths in police custody are disproportionately minorities.
Until Farage started up with his rabble-rousing it never occurred to me this was a case of police bias towards ethnic minorities. It still doesn't.
But it sounds very much like a case of police jumping to a conclusion that someone was a criminal and then treating him worse than most people would treat an animal.
It’s the same pattern - person in police custody is mentally categorised as “One Of Them”, problems ignored. Cue inquest.
All lives in police custody matter?
It's still the "He's a villain, Sir" of Constable Savage, some 46 years on.
Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area….
And that’s Chief Constable Sir Ronald Savage, OBE, DIpShit to the likes of you….
My feeling is that this is a good, if cynical play, by Reform. All the other politicians appear to be showing more outrage about the outrage rather than the disgraceful policing.
Oh, I'm sure it is great for his core vote strategy. And shoring themselves up against Restore seems to be the No. 1 Reform priority this week.
But if he wants to PM (and there is some debate about whether he really actually does) then he has to win over significant numbers of normies as the american would say.
Yesterday's behaviour wont do that.
I agree with Starmer at PMQs. Farage has shown who he is:
"The grieving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leader of Reform has responded. They’ve asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstance. They make a simple plea of us as human beings to please not exploit that. That is their plea to us. We all need to reflect on those words of Henry’s father. My response – and the response of others, to be fair – has [been focused] on the lessons to be learned so we can deliver justice. His response has been to appeal for rage. That’s his response to a father who’s lost his son and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division would be wrong in any circumstances, but to do it when the family are expressly saying please don’t is unforgivable. It shows who he is."
Sadly, Starmer used the phrase “Lessons to be learned”
Which always means “Will not include Lessons. Will not include Learning.”
FFS
FFS what on earth are you on about?
As @Cyclefree will attest, the phrase Lessons Will Be Learned appears frequently in the kind of inquiries that happen years after the event, take years to conclude.
The phrase always means that it will all be swept under the carpet, no real change is needed and everyone should stop talking about it
Ah so that's what you were on about, opining that nothing would happen for years.
But the reality is surely quite the opposite, given that the NPCC Chair has announced a review of the guidance in question and that in the wake of ministerial criticism there is pressure to change it with some haste:
From this morning on the BBC
"A police anti-racism commitment "gives the wrong impression", Police Minister Sarah Jones has said as forces' chiefs pledge to review the guidance in the wake of the murder of Henry Nowak...."
How are the BBC able to do a Makerfield Question Time without having all the candidates there? Surely that's against the law?
All 14 of them?
Liberal Democrats - Jake Austin Count Binface Party - Count Binface Labour Co-op - Andy Burnham Libertarian - Dan Clarke Independent - John Dyer Climate - Ed Gemmell Independent - Paul Gould Monster Raving Loony - Howling Laud Hope Reform - Robert Kenyon Independent - Robert Pownall Restore Britain - Rebecca Shepherd Green - Sarah Wakefield Rejoin EU - Peter Ward Conservative - Michael Winstanley
Right, but they just shouldn't be doing it. There is such strict rules about talking about specific seats that it seems bonkers that the BBC can do this (not saying it helps either side, by the way, though I see Lowe is furious).
Are there any betting odds on the results? I bet puffins do well.
Getting the public to pick them is a terrible idea.
Sticking random animals on banknotes is a terrible idea. Keep people or at least things that are specifically British. It's not like France doesn't have bees.
Incidentally, if someone wants to do some actual good…
Over the years, there has been a problem with deaths in police custody. This has been reduced by more attention to people appearing ill and getting them medical help faster.
The case we are discussing fits the pattern. Someone complains of being ill/injured and dies.
What can be done to improve of the work that has been done so far, to further reduce such deaths?
Think of it as really Learning Lessons.
Oh, and completely unsurprisingly, deaths in police custody are disproportionately minorities.
Until Farage started up with his rabble-rousing it never occurred to me this was a case of police bias towards ethnic minorities. It still doesn't.
But it sounds very much like a case of police jumping to a conclusion that someone was a criminal and then treating him worse than most people would treat an animal.
It’s the same pattern - person in police custody is mentally categorised as “One Of Them”, problems ignored. Cue inquest.
All lives in police custody matter?
It's still the "He's a villain, Sir" of Constable Savage, some 46 years on.
Wearing a loud shirt in a built up area….
And that’s Chief Constable Sir Ronald Savage, OBE, DIpShit to the likes of you….
My feeling is that this is a good, if cynical play, by Reform. All the other politicians appear to be showing more outrage about the outrage rather than the disgraceful policing.
Oh, I'm sure it is great for his core vote strategy. And shoring themselves up against Restore seems to be the No. 1 Reform priority this week.
But if he wants to PM (and there is some debate about whether he really actually does) then he has to win over significant numbers of normies as the american would say.
Yesterday's behaviour wont do that.
I agree with Starmer at PMQs. Farage has shown who he is:
"The grieving family have asked us not to respond in the way that the leader of Reform has responded. They’ve asked us not to. They have lost their son in the most appalling circumstance. They make a simple plea of us as human beings to please not exploit that. That is their plea to us. We all need to reflect on those words of Henry’s father. My response – and the response of others, to be fair – has [been focused] on the lessons to be learned so we can deliver justice. His response has been to appeal for rage. That’s his response to a father who’s lost his son and asked for that not to happen. Exploiting this tragedy to create grievance and division would be wrong in any circumstances, but to do it when the family are expressly saying please don’t is unforgivable. It shows who he is."
Sadly, Starmer used the phrase “Lessons to be learned”
Which always means “Will not include Lessons. Will not include Learning.”
FFS
FFS what on earth are you on about?
As @Cyclefree will attest, the phrase Lessons Will Be Learned appears frequently in the kind of inquiries that happen years after the event, take years to conclude.
The phrase always means that it will all be swept under the carpet, no real change is needed and everyone should stop talking about it
Ah so that's what you were on about, opining that nothing would happen for years.
But the reality is surely quite the opposite, given that the NPCC Chair has announced a review of the guidance in question and that in the wake of ministerial criticism there is pressure to change it with some haste:
From this morning on the BBC
"A police anti-racism commitment "gives the wrong impression", Police Minister Sarah Jones has said as forces' chiefs pledge to review the guidance in the wake of the murder of Henry Nowak...."
The fundamental thing I learned from this case is that the Police involved lack.
1) Observation skills. 2) Empathy/compassion. 3) Critical thinking skills. 4) Common sense. 5) Judgement. 6) Ability to assess a situation before acting.
All of which should be essential requirements on the person spec. How did they get employed?
The police specifically train to follow a process, rather than the skills you list.
Discretion is a dirty word. Like crevice.
You can hear in the police video of the arrest of Nowak the female police officer saying that she has to inspect Nowak’s torso for signs of injury “because of procedure”, despite her partners vocal skepticism that Nowak had any injuries at all.
Had Nowak been less seriously injured, that inspection which resulted from that officer following her training regardless of whether she thought it was necessary or not might have saved his life.
Well designed procedures & the expectation that people follow them can be good things - they set expectations for the minimum level of care and quality of service, over which the six points you mention can then be layered. Poorly thought out, rigidly defined procedures result in services that fail to meet the needs of those they serve.
One wonders what these men would have been doing before social media ruined the planet
Probably going to watch Millwall and West Ham, among other teams.
The real cultural change came in the early nineties when everyone, of that generation, became loved up on drugs and acid house crap/raves.
Yep, I remember the police at the time only ever talking about drugs, drugs, drugs.
What they mostly didn’t talk about, is how several thousand people could be at a rave for 12 hours and there to be almost no disturbances, just people having a good time.
As The Shamen once sang, E’s are good.
So the fact it was against the law, for more than one reason, didn't matter. People could just decide to do what they wanted.
It mattered very much that drugs were illegal.
My point was that there was a significant drop in public order issues in the early ‘90s, as a culture that led to a lot of young men socialising around football and drinking, was replaced with a culture of young men going to raves and taking pills. The pill-poppers didn’t get in fights with each other, unlike the football fans for whom it was often the highlight of their Saturday afternoon.
Still don't stop the government at the time getting whipped up in such a state of moral indignation it introduced the 1994 Criminal Justice Act specifically to target ravers
I was at a dance music festival in Peckham a couple of weeks ago and the huge crowd of ravers leaving the event at 10.30pm was intensely happy, peaceful and relaxed, everyone floating home on a little loved up cloud of joy.
Well I'm pleased you had a nice time, but it's not for me. I went to a dance music club once. It was utterly shit. People were having a good time but they were all on drugs and you can have a good time staring at a wall listening to a metronome if you're on drugs. If the music you're playing me doesn't engender a mosh pit, I'm not really interested.
Just a question about the millions of drug users, many of them FWIW middle class, quite a lot in positions of responsibility, what are their feelings about the wholesale importers of their product serving 25 year terms in prison? It seems to me they lack friends in important places.
Not opining as a drugs user or person in a position of authority although I will own up to being middle class... personally I think humans have always sought out mind altering substances, a prohibition approach is costly and ultimately unworkable, and I am therefore opposed to pushing the supply of these substances into the hands of criminals.
How are the BBC able to do a Makerfield Question Time without having all the candidates there? Surely that's against the law?
All 14 of them?
Liberal Democrats - Jake Austin Count Binface Party - Count Binface Labour Co-op - Andy Burnham Libertarian - Dan Clarke Independent - John Dyer Climate - Ed Gemmell Independent - Paul Gould Monster Raving Loony - Howling Laud Hope Reform - Robert Kenyon Independent - Robert Pownall Restore Britain - Rebecca Shepherd Green - Sarah Wakefield Rejoin EU - Peter Ward Conservative - Michael Winstanley
Right, but they just shouldn't be doing it. There is such strict rules about talking about specific seats that it seems bonkers that the BBC can do this (not saying it helps either side, by the way, though I see Lowe is furious).
It used to be that if they have one candidate on then they have to have them all so in effect they can have none. If they did have a candidate then that is an expense for that candidate, or dividable between the candidates so favoured. But the cost would be the cost of equivalent air time paid for such as on ITV. Clearly it would be so vast as to eliminate that candidate.
But, I know there are "special rules" now which basically say its OK if Labour do it.
Incidentally, if someone wants to do some actual good…
Over the years, there has been a problem with deaths in police custody. This has been reduced by more attention to people appearing ill and getting them medical help faster.
The case we are discussing fits the pattern. Someone complains of being ill/injured and dies.
What can be done to improve of the work that has been done so far, to further reduce such deaths?
Police can follow protocols which already exist, and are a fundamental part of their training.
As I pointed out earlier, even if the victim had been a racist who started the confrontation, and had not been stabbed, there was little or no justification in the circumstance for his being handcuffed. That the attending police dismissed his request for help without any apparent effort to check his state just compounds that.
In that sense, whatever their motivation might have been is close to irrelevant. They ignored what they are (or should have been) trained to do.
And hence why it seems one has already fallen on his sword.*
* Probably shouldn't use that phrase in this context.
The latest ElectionMaps Nowcast shows Labour winning 80 seats, which would be a loss of 331. A bit of a no-brainer that they won't want to have an early election.
This is not the first time Starmer has shamelessly used a young person's murder to fend off legitimate Qs from opponents. Recall his opportunism in the Chamber, when he told off Sunak for an accurate observation about Labour's muddled position on gender, because Brianna Ghey's mother was watching
Starmer wasn't fending off "legitimate" questions. He was calling out Farage for consciously blowing a dog whistle to release the thugs we saw threatening communities in Southampton yesterday.
Credit Badenoch, Davey and others for adopting the right tone.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
Are there any betting odds on the results? I bet puffins do well.
Getting the public to pick them is a terrible idea.
Sticking random animals on banknotes is a terrible idea. Keep people or at least things that are specifically British. It's not like France doesn't have bees.
Are there any betting odds on the results? I bet puffins do well.
Getting the public to pick them is a terrible idea.
Sticking random animals on banknotes is a terrible idea. Keep people or at least things that are specifically British. It's not like France doesn't have bees.
Doesn't France have people?
I'm not sure the French count as 'people' though. Not really British, you see. Like the Welsh.
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
Frankly, a comment like this should get this vile poundshop citizen smith contrarian banned from this site forever. Astonished only a handful of people have the guts to mention it. Had Leon said something similar, you would be talking about this for years.
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Not a surprise
Given Reform are having a public nervous breakdown it could be higher.
The fundamental thing I learned from this case is that the Police involved lack.
1) Observation skills. 2) Empathy/compassion. 3) Critical thinking skills. 4) Common sense. 5) Judgement. 6) Ability to assess a situation before acting.
All of which should be essential requirements on the person spec. How did they get employed?
The police specifically train to follow a process, rather than the skills you list.
Discretion is a dirty word. Like crevice.
You can hear in the police video of the arrest of Nowak the female police officer saying that she has to inspect Nowak’s torso for signs of injury “because of procedure”, despite her partners vocal skepticism that Nowak had any injuries at all.
Had Nowak been less seriously injured, that inspection which resulted from that officer following her training regardless of whether she thought it was necessary or not might have saved his life.
Well designed procedures & the expectation that people follow them can be good things - they set expectations for the minimum level of care and quality of service, over which the six points you mention can then be layered. Poorly thought out, rigidly defined procedures result in services that fail to meet the needs of those they serve.
Wise words from Korky Kendall on Yorkshire Dales National Park about 20 years ago, RIP, "Rules are for the guidance of wise men, not the instruction of fools".
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
Frankly, a comment like this should get this vile poundshop citizen smith contrarian banned from this site forever. Astonished only a handful of people have the guts to mention it. Had Leon said something similar, you would be talking about this for years.
I don't agree with banning either.
If DA had missed out the middle bit and said 'The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace but because he's so effective as a politician.' I may have given it a 'like'.
This is not the first time Starmer has shamelessly used a young person's murder to fend off legitimate Qs from opponents. Recall his opportunism in the Chamber, when he told off Sunak for an accurate observation about Labour's muddled position on gender, because Brianna Ghey's mother was watching
Starmer wasn't fending off "legitimate" questions. He was calling out Farage for consciously blowing a dog whistle to release the thugs we saw threatening communities in Southampton yesterday.
Credit Badenoch, Davey and others for adopting the right tone.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
I had to read that twice and at last something we agree on
Farage is the most divisive and nasty politician along with Yusaf and they need to be found out and kicked out
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Not a surprise
Given Reform are having a public nervous breakdown it could be higher.
Incidentally, if someone wants to do some actual good…
Over the years, there has been a problem with deaths in police custody. This has been reduced by more attention to people appearing ill and getting them medical help faster.
The case we are discussing fits the pattern. Someone complains of being ill/injured and dies.
What can be done to improve of the work that has been done so far, to further reduce such deaths?
Think of it as really Learning Lessons.
Oh, and completely unsurprisingly, deaths in police custody are disproportionately minorities.
Until Farage started up with his rabble-rousing it never occurred to me this was a case of police bias towards ethnic minorities. It still doesn't.
But it sounds very much like a case of police jumping to a conclusion that someone was a criminal and then treating him worse than most people would treat an animal.
If you think the police would have behaved in the same way to a gang of white youths accusing an injured sikh lying on the ground of racial abuse, I'll have some of what you're on.
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Are the Greens putting up much of a campaign there?
This is not the first time Starmer has shamelessly used a young person's murder to fend off legitimate Qs from opponents. Recall his opportunism in the Chamber, when he told off Sunak for an accurate observation about Labour's muddled position on gender, because Brianna Ghey's mother was watching
Starmer wasn't fending off "legitimate" questions. He was calling out Farage for consciously blowing a dog whistle to release the thugs we saw threatening communities in Southampton yesterday.
Credit Badenoch, Davey and others for adopting the right tone.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
I had to read that twice and at last something we agree on
Farage is the most divisive and nasty politician along with Yusaf and they need to be found out and kicked out
Both Jenrick and Braverman endorsed the sickening Reform social media ad attack on Kemi.
They really are going full Trump. Outrageous lying designed to attract those trapped in the bubble, and drown out other more moderate voices.
This does feel a bit like that moment when the scales have been removed.
What would a 5000 majority represent in terms of swing?
Depends on the turnout of course. The poster mentioned a high turnout for a by election.
For comparison, 2024 result was majority of 5,399 - 13.4% - on a turnout of 52.5%.
An electorate of 76,641, having a vote count of 40,263.
So. Not much of a swing at all. I find 5k to be a little unbelievable. Will be a stunning victory if it were to happen. Virtually no swing from a landslide after two years of execrable government?
This is not the first time Starmer has shamelessly used a young person's murder to fend off legitimate Qs from opponents. Recall his opportunism in the Chamber, when he told off Sunak for an accurate observation about Labour's muddled position on gender, because Brianna Ghey's mother was watching
Starmer wasn't fending off "legitimate" questions. He was calling out Farage for consciously blowing a dog whistle to release the thugs we saw threatening communities in Southampton yesterday.
Credit Badenoch, Davey and others for adopting the right tone.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
Didn't think I'd ever like a @Brixian59 post. Strange days we live in.
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Are the Greens putting up much of a campaign there?
No. And this really isn't fertile Green territory to start with. 4.4% and a long way fifth in 2024. Barely any students or Moslems. The Green voters of 2024 are almost exclusively of the "Labour too right wing" type. Which happens to be what Andy Burnham thinks, too.
What would a 5000 majority represent in terms of swing?
If Kenyon exceeds expectations on Question Time tomorrow then he could run away with it.
Right...
If he was running away with it then they wouldn't let him go on the show. Refuk ban their people from doing any media that isn't sycophantic. What media he has done has dropped him and them in endless trouble, and now he'll be on parade for an hour with no back up.
When you say exceed expectations are we thinking "In The Loop"? "Well done, you're a star. And you didn't wet yourself, did you? You're in the right city. You didn't say anything overtly racist. You didn't pull your dick out and start plucking it and shouting "Willy Banjo" "
Oh yeah, not accurate because he absolutely will say something overtly racist.
As an ex Makerfield resident still with contacts in the seat I am told that their expectations are a Labour majority of circa 5000 on a high turnout for a by election.
Are the Greens putting up much of a campaign there?
They selected a candidate but she is named after a White Rose city.
What would a 5000 majority represent in terms of swing?
Depends on the turnout of course. The poster mentioned a high turnout for a by election.
For comparison, 2024 result was majority of 5,399 - 13.4% - on a turnout of 52.5%.
An electorate of 76,641, having a vote count of 40,263.
So. Not much of a swing at all. I find 5k to be a little unbelievable. Will be a stunning victory if it were to happen. Virtually no swing from a landslide after two years of execrable government?
But Burnham isn't standing for the governing party!
This is not the first time Starmer has shamelessly used a young person's murder to fend off legitimate Qs from opponents. Recall his opportunism in the Chamber, when he told off Sunak for an accurate observation about Labour's muddled position on gender, because Brianna Ghey's mother was watching
Starmer wasn't fending off "legitimate" questions. He was calling out Farage for consciously blowing a dog whistle to release the thugs we saw threatening communities in Southampton yesterday.
Credit Badenoch, Davey and others for adopting the right tone.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
I had to read that twice and at last something we agree on
Farage is the most divisive and nasty politician along with Yusaf and they need to be found out and kicked out
Both Jenrick and Braverman endorsed the sickening Reform social media ad attack on Kemi.
They really are going full Trump. Outrageous lying designed to attract those trapped in the bubble, and drown out other more moderate voices.
This does feel a bit like that moment when the scales have been removed.
Even Streeting attacked them over that dreadful advert and it does feel as if this could be a big moment in the finding out of the toxic Farage and Yusaf.
Maybe some conservative defectors are having concerns over their decision
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
I think you'll find it's the Asian bloke with the knife who was the racist in this case.
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
Frankly, a comment like this should get this vile poundshop citizen smith contrarian banned from this site forever. Astonished only a handful of people have the guts to mention it. Had Leon said something similar, you would be talking about this for years.
What would a 5000 majority represent in terms of swing?
If Kenyon exceeds expectations on Question Time tomorrow then he could run away with it.
Perhaps his best hope is for the presenting journalist to faint and for him to look all shocked and sympathetic. We all know the wonders that did for Liz Truss's national standing.
What would a 5000 majority represent in terms of swing?
Depends on the turnout of course. The poster mentioned a high turnout for a by election.
For comparison, 2024 result was majority of 5,399 - 13.4% - on a turnout of 52.5%.
An electorate of 76,641, having a vote count of 40,263.
So. Not much of a swing at all. I find 5k to be a little unbelievable. Will be a stunning victory if it were to happen. Virtually no swing from a landslide after two years of execrable government?
But Burnham isn't standing for the governing party!
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
Frankly, a comment like this should get this vile poundshop citizen smith contrarian banned from this site forever. Astonished only a handful of people have the guts to mention it. Had Leon said something similar, you would be talking about this for years.
I've just seen it, and flagged it, FWIW.
Some people are being edgy for attention.
While promoting bollocks like that is being Tommy Lots of Names Little Helper, don’t give them the notice they crave.
This is not the first time Starmer has shamelessly used a young person's murder to fend off legitimate Qs from opponents. Recall his opportunism in the Chamber, when he told off Sunak for an accurate observation about Labour's muddled position on gender, because Brianna Ghey's mother was watching
Starmer wasn't fending off "legitimate" questions. He was calling out Farage for consciously blowing a dog whistle to release the thugs we saw threatening communities in Southampton yesterday.
Credit Badenoch, Davey and others for adopting the right tone.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
I had to read that twice and at last something we agree on
Farage is the most divisive and nasty politician along with Yusaf and they need to be found out and kicked out
Both Jenrick and Braverman endorsed the sickening Reform social media ad attack on Kemi.
They really are going full Trump. Outrageous lying designed to attract those trapped in the bubble, and drown out other more moderate voices.
This does feel a bit like that moment when the scales have been removed.
Even Streeting attacked them over that dreadful advert and it does feel as if this could be a big moment in the finding out of the toxic Farage and Yusaf.
Maybe some conservative defectors are having concerns over their decision
We do not want Jenrick or Braverman back
Jenrick and Braverman are both Cambridge-educated lawyers. Is there a higher accolade?
What would a 5000 majority represent in terms of swing?
Depends on the turnout of course. The poster mentioned a high turnout for a by election.
For comparison, 2024 result was majority of 5,399 - 13.4% - on a turnout of 52.5%.
An electorate of 76,641, having a vote count of 40,263.
So. Not much of a swing at all. I find 5k to be a little unbelievable. Will be a stunning victory if it were to happen. Virtually no swing from a landslide after two years of execrable government?
But Burnham isn't standing for the governing party!
This. Can't people understand this simple basic proposition? Burnham is *running against the government*.
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
Frankly, a comment like this should get this vile poundshop citizen smith contrarian banned from this site forever. Astonished only a handful of people have the guts to mention it. Had Leon said something similar, you would be talking about this for years.
I've just seen it, and flagged it, FWIW.
Some people are being edgy for attention.
While promoting bollocks like that is being Tommy Lots of Names Little Helper, don’t give them the notice they crave.
Given all the sanctimony and clypey whining, mission accomplished I’d say.
How are the BBC able to do a Makerfield Question Time without having all the candidates there? Surely that's against the law?
All 14 of them?
Liberal Democrats - Jake Austin Count Binface Party - Count Binface Labour Co-op - Andy Burnham Libertarian - Dan Clarke Independent - John Dyer Climate - Ed Gemmell Independent - Paul Gould Monster Raving Loony - Howling Laud Hope Reform - Robert Kenyon Independent - Robert Pownall Restore Britain - Rebecca Shepherd Green - Sarah Wakefield Rejoin EU - Peter Ward Conservative - Michael Winstanley
Right, but they just shouldn't be doing it. There is such strict rules about talking about specific seats that it seems bonkers that the BBC can do this (not saying it helps either side, by the way, though I see Lowe is furious).
When the Lib Dems, Greens and Conservatives are all 1000/1 in a by election they are ignoring and yet Restore are at 11/1 and making a significant effort, Lowe has a point.
I can see why Burnham should be furious too, since the BBC have effectively organised hustings giving paper candidates from the Lib Dems and Greens an equal platform which undermines Burnham's play for tactical votes, yet at the same time they are ignoring a candidate likely to take significant votes away from Reform and who polling suggests will come third.
The alternative to not giving Restore a platform would have been not to hold a question time hustings programme at all. The latter is the course of action that the BBC should have followed.
The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace over the racist with the Hitler haircut getting knifed but because he's so effective as a politician.
Frankly, a comment like this should get this vile poundshop citizen smith contrarian banned from this site forever. Astonished only a handful of people have the guts to mention it. Had Leon said something similar, you would be talking about this for years.
I've just seen it, and flagged it, FWIW.
Some people are being edgy for attention.
While promoting bollocks like that is being Tommy Lots of Names Little Helper, don’t give them the notice they crave.
Given all the sanctimony and clypey whining, mission accomplished I’d say.
Let's remember this next time you ride your pompous high horse in front of everyone.
Comments
Discretion is a dirty word. Like crevice.
There needs to be strong resistance to those who want the wrong conclusions from this tragic event, this was a failure by the attending officers to correctly assess the situation, attending officers make those mistakes regardless of ethnicities.
Liberal Democrats - Jake Austin
Count Binface Party - Count Binface
Labour Co-op - Andy Burnham
Libertarian - Dan Clarke
Independent - John Dyer
Climate - Ed Gemmell
Independent - Paul Gould
Monster Raving Loony - Howling Laud Hope
Reform - Robert Kenyon
Independent - Robert Pownall
Restore Britain - Rebecca Shepherd
Green - Sarah Wakefield
Rejoin EU - Peter Ward
Conservative - Michael Winstanley
If you fired anyone who used it from public office, the.n public office would be better off.
And that’s Chief Constable Sir Ronald Savage, OBE, DIpShit to the likes of you….
But the reality is surely quite the opposite, given that the NPCC Chair has announced a review of the guidance in question and that in the wake of ministerial criticism there is pressure to change it with some haste:
From this morning on the BBC
"A police anti-racism commitment "gives the wrong impression", Police Minister Sarah Jones has said as forces' chiefs pledge to review the guidance in the wake of the murder of Henry Nowak...."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c392gj41pgpo
(Not surprising...)
That’s exactly how the performative dance starts.
The victim’s family will be appealing to the next-but-two PM for a full public enquiry.
Had Nowak been less seriously injured, that inspection which resulted from that officer following her training regardless of whether she thought it was necessary or not might have saved his life.
Well designed procedures & the expectation that people follow them can be good things - they set expectations for the minimum level of care and quality of service, over which the six points you mention can then be layered. Poorly thought out, rigidly defined procedures result in services that fail to meet the needs of those they serve.
It's a silver birch and the stem is beautiful. And there is rather a lot of it.
But there again, with times winged chariot at my back that's probably a very good thing.
It's a silver birch and the stem is beautiful. And there is rather a lot of it.
But there again, with times winged chariot at my back that's probably a very good thing.
But, I know there are "special rules" now which basically say its OK if Labour do it.
By Anyone Who Needs to Learn Them.
Until It Is Far Too Late.
This is a summary of every inquiry report which is about to be written or will ever be written in future on scandals yet to be imagined.
By Anyone Who Needs to Learn Them.
Until It Is Far Too Late.
This is a summary of every inquiry report which is about to be written or will ever be written in future on scandals yet to be imagined.
Was on it at 33-1 in 2007 when it won the National.
* Probably shouldn't use that phrase in this context.
As for Farage there are no words for the utterly contemptuous piece of shit he is.
If DA had missed out the middle bit and said 'The real source of the animus directed at Big Nige is not because he's toking the outrage furnace but because he's so effective as a politician.' I may have given it a 'like'.
Farage is the most divisive and nasty politician along with Yusaf and they need to be found out and kicked out
Reform need to lose in Makerfield
@siennamarla
Lambeth, Southwark, Lewisham and Haringey all now led by Greens who were on the Labour left until very recently
https://x.com/siennamarla/status/2061825268512088462
@SpencerHakimian
·
11h
Trump’s schedule for tomorrow was just released.
He will not be seen in public for an 8th straight day.
They really are going full Trump. Outrageous lying designed to attract those trapped in the bubble, and drown out other more moderate voices.
This does feel a bit like that moment when the scales have been removed.
For comparison, 2024 result was majority of 5,399 - 13.4% - on a turnout of 52.5%.
An electorate of 76,641, having a vote count of 40,263.
So. Not much of a swing at all.
I find 5k to be a little unbelievable.
Will be a stunning victory if it were to happen. Virtually no swing from a landslide after two years of execrable government?
And this really isn't fertile Green territory to start with. 4.4% and a long way fifth in 2024.
Barely any students or Moslems. The Green voters of 2024 are almost exclusively of the "Labour too right wing" type.
Which happens to be what Andy Burnham thinks, too.
If he was running away with it then they wouldn't let him go on the show. Refuk ban their people from doing any media that isn't sycophantic. What media he has done has dropped him and them in endless trouble, and now he'll be on parade for an hour with no back up.
When you say exceed expectations are we thinking "In The Loop"? "Well done, you're a star. And you didn't wet yourself, did you? You're in the right city. You didn't say anything overtly racist. You didn't pull your dick out and start plucking it and shouting "Willy Banjo" "
Oh yeah, not accurate because he absolutely will say something overtly racist.
So, I'd say no.
Maybe some conservative defectors are having concerns over their decision
We do not want Jenrick or Braverman back
Your tree may be a bit young for that though.
While promoting bollocks like that is being Tommy Lots of Names Little Helper, don’t give them the notice they crave.
NEW THREAD
I can see why Burnham should be furious too, since the BBC have effectively organised hustings giving paper candidates from the Lib Dems and Greens an equal platform which undermines Burnham's play for tactical votes, yet at the same time they are ignoring a candidate likely to take significant votes away from Reform and who polling suggests will come third.
The alternative to not giving Restore a platform would have been not to hold a question time hustings programme at all. The latter is the course of action that the BBC should have followed.