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Rupert Lowe isn’t very good at expectations management – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,169
edited May 30 in General
Rupert Lowe isn’t very good at expectations management – politicalbetting.com

I have always been told to underpromise and overdeliver because success equals performance minus anticipation, these are lessons Rupert Lowe appears to not fo follow.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    edited May 30
    Anyone genuinely believing in a Restore win should be on the 40%+ band, which is even better value on Betfair.

    Oh, and first...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,564
    Foxy said:

    Anyone genuinely believing in a Restore win should be on the 40%+ band, which is even better value on Betfair.

    Oh, and first...

    Ta, added the Betfair market to the header.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Rupert lacks legendary modesty.
    Sad.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,442
    edited May 30
    Edit because I quoted the header by mistake.

    I'm struggling to know what to make of Mr Lowe and his party, period.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    Well you can't say the racists aren't spoilt for choice
  • I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828

    I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.

    It is Musk that is hyping Restore.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,372
    I'm not so sure it's a stupid tactic. If you're a small amd relatively new party you need to convince people that it's worth voting for you and build a bit of momentum. If Restore do well then that will be the story and if they don't then no-one will remember what Lowe said.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    edited May 30
    Foxy said:

    I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.

    It is Musk that is hyping Restore.
    Along with Rupe.

    Has Burnham even commented on Restore ?

    My top search result to that question was "Burnham hits out at Reform".
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 916
    Foxy said:

    Anyone genuinely believing in a Restore win should be on the 40%+ band, which is even better value on Betfair.

    With the vote split at least three ways, they could win with well below that. If indeed they can win.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 3,131
    AnneJGP said:

    Edit because I quoted the header by mistake.

    I'm struggling to know what to make of Mr Lowe and his party, period.

    A profit, as he or his backers back them on the betting exchanges
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    This from Bloomberg is interesting and worth a read on Makerfield

    https://x.com/i/status/2060632390758744356
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,594
    Foxy said:

    I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.

    It is Musk that is hyping Restore.
    Lowe himself is very active on Facebook which I suspect is more relevant to his target audience.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858
    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Perhaps not so shocking, given the Lib Dems' "fight to win in 100 seats, ignore the other 550" strategy and Kemi's being Kemi and not understanding that church roofs and being nice to people aren't incompatible with conservatism.

    If you're a Macmillan/Major one nation type who doesn't live in the Waitrose belt, Starmer's Labour is the least bad realistic fit. Not a good fit, but... (dragged off stage for repetition over many years)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    edited May 30
    Gaussian said:

    Foxy said:

    Anyone genuinely believing in a Restore win should be on the 40%+ band, which is even better value on Betfair.

    With the vote split at least three ways, they could win with well below that. If indeed they can win.
    It would have to be almost perfectly split for that to happen, but 35% band might also want covering. The Con/Green/LD/Binface etc will get 10% between them.

    My hunch is Restore lost deposit, and that is where my money is. Also on the Lab over 43.5% band at Ladbrokes.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    edited May 30
    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Are any of our parties particularly liberal? I don't think so, and further, experience informs us that all will be less liberal in power than they claim to be in opposition.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    edited May 30

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Perhaps not so shocking, given the Lib Dems' "fight to win in 100 seats, ignore the other 550" strategy and Kemi's being Kemi and not understanding that church roofs and being nice to people aren't incompatible with conservatism.

    If you're a Macmillan/Major one nation type who doesn't live in the Waitrose belt, Starmer's Labour is the least bad realistic fit. Not a good fit, but... (dragged off stage for repetition over many years)
    Except that the category now divides equally between Labour and Conservative, and 13% now apparently intend to vote Reform.

    Anyway, your nomenclature makes more sense than "Liberal"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    edited May 30
    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    Its easy to see why they keep Kenyon away from the interviewers. This is quite the car crash.

    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRWGV52M/

    Imagine 300 Kenyon's as MPs in 2029. It will be the British Idiocracy*.

    *Idiocracy (2006 film) now seems extraordinarily prescient of Trumps Presidency: https://www.adamkinzinger.com/p/were-living-in-idiocracy-and-the?r=kjv0f&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    HYUFD said:

    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line

    I am not sure that Con on 2% at yet another mid term byelection will be a triumph for Badenoch!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    The most interesting fact from that is the Conservatives now tie Labour for the lead with Established Liberals with the LDs third and Reform only 4th amongst this elite group.

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116?s=20
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Perhaps not so shocking, given the Lib Dems' "fight to win in 100 seats, ignore the other 550" strategy and Kemi's being Kemi and not understanding that church roofs and being nice to people aren't incompatible with conservatism.

    If you're a Macmillan/Major one nation type who doesn't live in the Waitrose belt, Starmer's Labour is the least bad realistic fit. Not a good fit, but... (dragged off stage for repetition over many years)
    Yet the Tories still lead with this group despite Kemi's culture wars rhetoric and the fact they probably look more like Jeremy Hunt than her
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line

    I am not sure that Con on 2% at yet another mid term byelection will be a triumph for Badenoch!
    Makerfield has never had a Conservative MP, even Boris and Thatcher didn't win it, if it sees a Restore surge that starts to split the Reform vote that would be very good news for Tory incumbent MPs and councillors. A low Tory voteshare matters little in an area the Tories never win anyway
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    The most interesting fact from that is the Conservatives now tie Labour for the lead with Established Liberals with the LDs third and Reform only 4th amongst this elite group.

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116?s=20
    In a segment the Conservatives won overwhelmingly in 2019, and narrowly in 2024.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Are any of our parties particularly liberal? I don't think so, and further, experience informs us that all will be less liberal in power than they claim to be in opposition.
    I would also add, I am instinctively liberal and would identify as such but not convinced liberalism can create a policy framework that deals well with the global threats around AI, climate, broligarchs and nationalism. So whilst liberalism still has its place in some policy areas, it is not surprising that parties are not building around it as they might do in more stable and less threatening times.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428
    edited May 30
    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    'Liberal' is one of those terms that can't be usefully used unless you know which of its many meanings is meant.

    I think the clue here is 'Established'. It refers to a group who are mostly older and therefore have an interesting past to remember, have a stake in civil society because they are fairly comfortably off, believe in liberalism not a political label but as a procedure for how society recognises and legislates for rights, duties, freedoms and obligations. They are probably Burkeans in believing that society is organic, not an artifice, and that the present has debts and obligations to the future especially, and also the past. They will mostly vote LD in LD strongholds but not mostly otherwise.

    I should think they make up the entire audience of most literary festivals and Radio 4.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    'Liberal' is one of those terms that can't be usefully used unless you know which of its many meanings is meant.

    I think the clue here is 'Established'. It refers to a group who are mostly older and therefore have an interesting past to remember, have a stake in civil society because they are fairly comfortably off, believe in liberalism not a political label but as a procedure for how society recognises and legislates for rights, duties, freedoms and obligations. They are probably Burkeans in believing that society is organic, not an artifice, and that the present has debts and obligations to the future especially, and also the past. They will mostly vote LD in LD strongholds but not mostly otherwise.

    I should think they make up the entire audience of most literary festivals and Radio 4.

    Can't believe you missed out Gail's but otherwise yes, spot on.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858
    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    'Liberal' is one of those terms that can't be usefully used unless you know which of its many meanings is meant.

    I think the clue here is 'Established'. It refers to a group who are mostly older and therefore have an interesting past to remember, have a stake in civil society because they are fairly comfortably off, believe in liberalism not a political label but as a procedure for how society recognises and legislates for rights, duties, freedoms and obligations. They are probably Burkeans in believing that society is organic, not an artifice, and that the present has debts and obligations to the future especially, and also the past. They will mostly vote LD in LD strongholds but not mostly otherwise.

    I should think they make up the entire audience of most literary festivals and Radio 4.

    "Do what you like as long as it doesn't scare the horses. Because they're my horses."

    Not comfortable with some of the social outpourings of the youth, though their niece (can I still call them that?) with a nosering seems pleasant enough. But probably more uncomfortable with enforcement of traditional norms.

    Just don't ram it down my throat.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,193

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    They are in a mess, and also need a standard recovery from mid term of 6% or so to be the biggest party at the next election. It is a funny old time.
    Yes, the combination of five-party politics (in England), but with politics still in the public and media consciousness as simply a Government v Opposition dichotomy is having some mind-bending consequences.

    The exit poll at 10pm on the day of the next general election is going to do most people's heads in, one way or another.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323
    Driver said:

    Foxy said:

    I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.

    It is Musk that is hyping Restore.
    Lowe himself is very active on Facebook which I suspect is more relevant to his target audience.
    Their comments show the extent to which Restore has managed to capitalise on social media to build up its profile in Britain’s increasingly fragmented political landscape.

    By far its biggest asset is Facebook, where Lowe broadcasts messages to more than 1.2 million followers, the majority of whom are based in Britain. By contrast, Sir Keir Starmer has 651,000 Facebook followers and Kemi Badenoch has 503,000. Farage, benefiting from a sustained public profile since becoming an MEP in 1999, has 2.1 million followers on Facebook.

    On X, Lowe has almost 775,000 followers compared with Farage’s 2.2 million, but an analysis this week showed that the Restore leader appeared to be reaching more people with his posts. Since February, 10 of Lowe’s posts have reached at least 10 million views – a feat not achieved by any of Farage’s posts in that time. Content uploaded to Restore’s YouTube account, which has more than 120,000 subscribers, is also raised by voters in Makerfield.

    “There’s a reluctance in the media to talk about how many people we’ve been reaching,” claims the Restore spokesman. “Everyone says ‘it’s just Musk on Twitter’. It’s not.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/dbf5cf2c9d033b0a

    Gift link (so no paywall) as there are betting implications.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Are any of our parties particularly liberal? I don't think so, and further, experience informs us that all will be less liberal in power than they claim to be in opposition.
    That is all going to depend on your meaning of 'liberal'. And one needs to draw a distinction between the variabilities both of philosophical and political liberalism, and also bear in mind its uses, especially in American culture, as a blanket criticism of almost everyone you oppose.

    IMHO UK and European political culture generally is more social democrat than liberal, that mainstream parties in the UK are in internal fights between philosophical liberals and authoritarians, and both liberals and social democrats (ie most normal people) are troubled that the day of our sort of centrism may be past the best times.

    Full disclosure: I am a political social democrat, my natural home is One Nation Tory, and a philosophical and religious liberal.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke

    I didn’t vote for either of the winners of the last two General Elections but “traitors” for whom a “reckoning is coming”? Really? This very excitable, angry & hyperbolic man should be nowhere near a position of responsibility in a political party that aspires to power.

    Quote
    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK

    Recent events demonstrate why I view the Tory and Labour politicians who created the burning injustice of modern Britain as traitors to their country.

    A reckoning is coming.



    https://x.com/DavidGauke/status/2060479604481986575
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    Foxy said:

    Its easy to see why they keep Kenyon away from the interviewers. This is quite the car crash.

    https://vm.tiktok.com/ZNRWGV52M/

    Imagine 300 Kenyon's as MPs in 2029. It will be the British Idiocracy*.

    *Idiocracy (2006 film) now seems extraordinarily prescient of Trumps Presidency: https://www.adamkinzinger.com/p/were-living-in-idiocracy-and-the?r=kjv0f&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

    What slander!

    The idiots in Idiocracy were well meaning and quite kind. Their big fuckup was trying to help and getting it wrong.

    The malevolence of MAGA was entirely absent.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323
    Scott Adams on why billionaires can't say why they are billionaires (in a 1-minute clip):-
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkvsrQXx6x0
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    algarkirk said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    'Liberal' is one of those terms that can't be usefully used unless you know which of its many meanings is meant.

    I think the clue here is 'Established'. It refers to a group who are mostly older and therefore have an interesting past to remember, have a stake in civil society because they are fairly comfortably off, believe in liberalism not a political label but as a procedure for how society recognises and legislates for rights, duties, freedoms and obligations. They are probably Burkeans in believing that society is organic, not an artifice, and that the present has debts and obligations to the future especially, and also the past. They will mostly vote LD in LD strongholds but not mostly otherwise.

    I should think they make up the entire audience of most literary festivals and Radio 4.

    "Do what you like as long as it doesn't scare the horses. Because they're my horses."

    Not comfortable with some of the social outpourings of the youth, though their niece (can I still call them that?) with a nosering seems pleasant enough. But probably more uncomfortable with enforcement of traditional norms.

    Just don't ram it down my throat.
    And of course, established norms have their uses.

    “Some men just want to watch the world burn” sounds edgy. But, generally, what you get is the Sycamore Gap tree being chopped down. Or people driving at 136 in a 30 while high on drugs.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,550
    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    edited May 30
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line

    I am not sure that Con on 2% at yet another mid term byelection will be a triumph for Badenoch!
    Makerfield has never had a Conservative MP, even Boris and Thatcher didn't win it, if it sees a Restore surge that starts to split the Reform vote that would be very good news for Tory incumbent MPs and councillors. A low Tory voteshare matters little in an area the Tories never win anyway
    The 2 Scottish byelections maybe more interesting. I think both are SNP holds, but the Scot Cons were a close third in July 2024. With the wind in their sails they should keep their deposits there, but can they improve upon third?

    Would second place for the Official Opposition be a triumph for Badenoch? Or will SLab hold on to the Unionist vote?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.

    More that Californian post-punk is intrinsically more upbeat than British post-punk, reflecting the optomism of Reaganite America vs the mass unemployment of early eighties Britain.

    The Go-go's are a seriously under-rated band.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323
    edited May 30
    SNP Murrell question.

    What happens now to all the noomless tat Murrell bought. Does it belong to the SNP or do the police keep it then auction it off after the trial? There must be a few rich Nats who'd pay for Nicola's second-hand pens and pepper pots.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,550
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.

    More that Californian post-punk is intrinsically more upbeat than British post-punk, reflecting the optomism of Reaganite America vs the mass unemployment of early eighties Britain.

    The Go-go's are a seriously under-rated band.
    They could not, however, punctuate.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,755
    Cookie said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.

    More that Californian post-punk is intrinsically more upbeat than British post-punk, reflecting the optomism of Reaganite America vs the mass unemployment of early eighties Britain.

    The Go-go's are a seriously under-rated band.
    They could not, however, punctuate.
    It had went-went.
  • StarryStarry Posts: 198
    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.

    More that Californian post-punk is intrinsically more upbeat than British post-punk, reflecting the optomism of Reaganite America vs the mass unemployment of early eighties Britain.
    Can't agree with that. California was producing bands like X, Black Flag, the Germs, the Dead Kennedys etc. The sunny smile of Californian surf rock before that can't be attributed to the Republicans either. They were the enemy to the Man stopping the Kids.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    edited May 30

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line

    I am not sure that Con on 2% at yet another mid term byelection will be a triumph for Badenoch!
    Makerfield has never had a Conservative MP, even Boris and Thatcher didn't win it, if it sees a Restore surge that starts to split the Reform vote that would be very good news for Tory incumbent MPs and councillors. A low Tory voteshare matters little in an area the Tories never win anyway
    The 2 Scottish byelections maybe more interesting. I think both are SNP holds, but the Scot Cons were a close third in July 2024. With the wind in their sails they should keep their deposits there, but can they improve upon third?

    Would second place for the Official Opposition be a triumph for Badenoch? Or will SLab hold on to the Unionist vote?
    The SCons will certainly be hoping to win Aberdeen South
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735
    AnneJGP said:

    Edit because I quoted the header by mistake.

    I'm struggling to know what to make of Mr Lowe and his party, period.

    His geography isn't great mind.

    This is confirmed after he called the authorities after he believed he saw Asylum Seekers from Calais rowing past Great Yarmouth Pier.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828
    Starry said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.

    More that Californian post-punk is intrinsically more upbeat than British post-punk, reflecting the optomism of Reaganite America vs the mass unemployment of early eighties Britain.
    Can't agree with that. California was producing bands like X, Black Flag, the Germs, the Dead Kennedys etc. The sunny smile of Californian surf rock before that can't be attributed to the Republicans either. They were the enemy to the Man stopping the Kids.
    Yes, but those are Punk, rather than Post-Punk bands. (The Go-go's also were quite punk before their breakthrough)

    There was some fairly upbeat UK Post-Punk too, such as Altered Images, Bananarama, Dolly Mixture, Shop Assistants etc.

    Maybe it was just a girl thing to be a bit more upbeat.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917
    G Newsom tweets:

    This week alone:

    DOJ opens an investigation into the woman Trump raped.

    The White House is caught steering a $620 million contract to Don Jr.’s firm.

    The Pentagon hands out a $10 billion contract after Trump buys stock in the company.

    Foreign governments are caught funneling hundreds of millions into a random JPMorgan account tied to Trump’s “Board of Peace” with no oversight.

    It’s just Thursday.

    The corruption isn’t hidden anymore. It’s happening out in the open.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    They are in a mess, but they are in Government. Your lot are in a mess and not in Government.

    Being in possession of the ball can be a great advantage if it is played reasonably well even under sub optimal Trump-World circumstances.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,475

    SNP Murrell question.

    What happens now to all the noomless tat Murrell bought. Does it belong to the SNP or do the police keep it then auction it off after the trial? There must be a few rich Nats who'd pay for Nicola's second-hand pens and pepper pots.

    I think the legal claims by the Court (and the Tax Man?) take precedence.

    But I have not followed the egg cups and overh-yped brand pens.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917

    I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.

    Labour are not hyping Restore.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,475
    edited May 30
    Cookie said:

    Anyway, pb, I have just got back from two days campervanning with some of my daughters in the North West of Scotland during which I have been completely cut off from the news. It has been lovely. We swam in the sea just North of Arisaig (the sea! In Scotland! In May!) with views over to Skye and Rum. It was just astonishingly beautiful.


    (That's not my family in shot, btw - just random bystanders)

    That sounds great. How long was the overall trip, since it would take quite a long time to get there from Manc?\ Fly-drive?

    I once did a rail from Kings Cross to Inverness, which was ... lengthy.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    edited May 30

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    Are any of our parties particularly liberal? I don't think so, and further, experience informs us that all will be less liberal in power than they claim to be in opposition.
    I would also add, I am instinctively liberal and would identify as such but not convinced liberalism can create a policy framework that deals well with the global threats around AI, climate, broligarchs and nationalism. So whilst liberalism still has its place in some policy areas, it is not surprising that parties are not building around it as they might do in more stable and less threatening times.
    Liberalism is sceptical of the accumulation of power, which seems a great starting point for a policy framework in response to AI, broligarchs and nationalism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    edited May 30

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    The most interesting fact from that is the Conservatives now tie Labour for the lead with Established Liberals with the LDs third and Reform only 4th amongst this elite group.

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116?s=20
    In a segment the Conservatives won overwhelmingly in 2019, and narrowly in 2024.
    Established Liberals are the only group the Tories now lead with, albeit tied with Starmer Labour, of the other groups they won in 2024, Rooted Patriots now have a big Reform lead and Traditional Conservatives now narrowly prefer Reform over the Tories too.

    Boris won Dissenting Disruptors in 2019 but that group narrowly went Labour in 2024 and is now majority Reform. Sceptical Scrollers also went for Boris in 2019, strongly for Labour in 2024 and now Reform has a clear lead with that group as well.

    Of the 2 traditionally left leaning groups Corbyn won in 2019 and Starmer in 2024, Labour still lead clearly with the Incrementalist Left but Labour only narrowly lead the Greens with Progressive Activists


    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124
    MattW said:

    SNP Murrell question.

    What happens now to all the noomless tat Murrell bought. Does it belong to the SNP or do the police keep it then auction it off after the trial? There must be a few rich Nats who'd pay for Nicola's second-hand pens and pepper pots.

    I think the legal claims by the Court (and the Tax Man?) take precedence.

    But I have not followed the egg cups and overh-yped brand pens.
    I imagine they'll be in hot demand. I sense she's enjoying herself which I'm pleased about. After reading her book I have to admit to liking her. Maybe a signed bread bin?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    Any thoughts on the 2 Scottish byelections on the 18th?

    SNP strong favourites in the betting for each, I see.

    Any feeling how the Unionist vote will split? I would anticipate SLab falling back a bit, but they seemed to hold on better against the Reform surge than the SCon in the Holyrood elections.

    If SCon only manage 3rd or 4th place it does look pretty dismal for them.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917

    Driver said:

    Foxy said:

    I assumed it was Labour itself that was hyping Restore. Clearly there is no rational reason for the money being spent except to break up the right of centre vote

    But this fight will be between the Randy Scouse Git (Monkees reference there) and the plumber. My guess is the plumber will win because I don't think the people of Makerfield will be so easily bought. Nor does Burnham if he is hyping Restore as much as it appears.

    It is Musk that is hyping Restore.
    Lowe himself is very active on Facebook which I suspect is more relevant to his target audience.
    Their comments show the extent to which Restore has managed to capitalise on social media to build up its profile in Britain’s increasingly fragmented political landscape.

    By far its biggest asset is Facebook, where Lowe broadcasts messages to more than 1.2 million followers, the majority of whom are based in Britain. By contrast, Sir Keir Starmer has 651,000 Facebook followers and Kemi Badenoch has 503,000. Farage, benefiting from a sustained public profile since becoming an MEP in 1999, has 2.1 million followers on Facebook.

    On X, Lowe has almost 775,000 followers compared with Farage’s 2.2 million, but an analysis this week showed that the Restore leader appeared to be reaching more people with his posts. Since February, 10 of Lowe’s posts have reached at least 10 million views – a feat not achieved by any of Farage’s posts in that time. Content uploaded to Restore’s YouTube account, which has more than 120,000 subscribers, is also raised by voters in Makerfield.

    “There’s a reluctance in the media to talk about how many people we’ve been reaching,” claims the Restore spokesman. “Everyone says ‘it’s just Musk on Twitter’. It’s not.”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/dbf5cf2c9d033b0a

    Gift link (so no paywall) as there are betting implications.
    Clearly, some of that is just Musk. Musk is pushing Lowe’s posts on X. This should be considered an illegal foreign campaign contribution!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    3 years to the next GE and with a leader improving,labour all over the place, and the ludicrous Surgeon Murrell scandal at the heart of the SNP, anything can happen
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735

    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke

    I didn’t vote for either of the winners of the last two General Elections but “traitors” for whom a “reckoning is coming”? Really? This very excitable, angry & hyperbolic man should be nowhere near a position of responsibility in a political party that aspires to power.

    Quote
    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK

    Recent events demonstrate why I view the Tory and Labour politicians who created the burning injustice of modern Britain as traitors to their country.

    A reckoning is coming.



    https://x.com/DavidGauke/status/2060479604481986575

    Is this a Trumpian- style reckoning where opponents of the Reform Party and Reform personnel are hounded by the stolen levers of power and phenomenal amounts of dodgy cash find their way into the bank accounts of friends and family of the great and the good of Reform? Although it is happening already I can't wait until it shifts into overdrive!
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line

    I am not sure that Con on 2% at yet another mid term byelection will be a triumph for Badenoch!
    Makerfield has never had a Conservative MP, even Boris and Thatcher didn't win it, if it sees a Restore surge that starts to split the Reform vote that would be very good news for Tory incumbent MPs and councillors. A low Tory voteshare matters little in an area the Tories never win anyway
    The 2 Scottish byelections maybe more interesting. I think both are SNP holds, but the Scot Cons were a close third in July 2024. With the wind in their sails they should keep their deposits there, but can they improve upon third?

    Would second place for the Official Opposition be a triumph for Badenoch? Or will SLab hold on to the Unionist vote?
    What Badenoch needs is some sort of scandal to hit the SNP. A big, juicy one. Then surely the Tories would be a shoo in.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    3 years to the next GE and with a leader improving,labour all over the place, and the ludicrous Surgeon Murrell scandal at the heart of the SNP, anything can happen
    Murrell was pretending to be a surgeon as well as everything else?!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    3 years to the next GE and with a leader improving,labour all over the place, and the ludicrous Surgeon Murrell scandal at the heart of the SNP, anything can happen
    Murrell was pretending to be a surgeon as well as everything else?!
    My mistake but who knows with Murrell ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,126
    Roger said:

    MattW said:

    SNP Murrell question.

    What happens now to all the noomless tat Murrell bought. Does it belong to the SNP or do the police keep it then auction it off after the trial? There must be a few rich Nats who'd pay for Nicola's second-hand pens and pepper pots.

    I think the legal claims by the Court (and the Tax Man?) take precedence.

    But I have not followed the egg cups and overh-yped brand pens.
    I imagine they'll be in hot demand. I sense she's enjoying herself which I'm pleased about. After reading her book I have to admit to liking her. Maybe a signed bread bin?
    Enjoying herself ?

    Sturgeon just admitted it has been the worse week in her life and made out she didn't know who her husband really was

    She is followed by the media and looks broken

    You really are out of touch at times
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,493
    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,828

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lowe may be right but not in the way he expects. The polls we have had from Makerfield suggest Restore could get up to 10%+ and that would be enough to let Burnham through the back door and scrape a win despite the Reform and Restore combined votes being bigger than the Labour vote in Makerfield.

    The by election may therefore single the start of a split on the nationalist right more than a thumping win for Burnham as Labour's new Messiah. The biggest winners from such a result may ironically be Kemi if Reform's vote starts splitting and even Sir Keir if Labour win but Burnham only scrapes over the line

    I am not sure that Con on 2% at yet another mid term byelection will be a triumph for Badenoch!
    Makerfield has never had a Conservative MP, even Boris and Thatcher didn't win it, if it sees a Restore surge that starts to split the Reform vote that would be very good news for Tory incumbent MPs and councillors. A low Tory voteshare matters little in an area the Tories never win anyway
    The 2 Scottish byelections maybe more interesting. I think both are SNP holds, but the Scot Cons were a close third in July 2024. With the wind in their sails they should keep their deposits there, but can they improve upon third?

    Would second place for the Official Opposition be a triumph for Badenoch? Or will SLab hold on to the Unionist vote?
    What Badenoch needs is some sort of scandal to hit the SNP. A big, juicy one. Then surely the Tories would be a shoo in.
    Can't see that happening!

    But seriously, if Badenoch cannot make progress in current circumstances then surely she is toast?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    edited May 30
    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader.

    If Burnham wins in Makerfield as I said it will be helped by Restore splitting the Reform vote
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,646
    Rupert Lowe is a genuine Nazi promoting racial purity, and should be dealt with as such.

    A Restore spokesperson has said that people without “indigenous British ancestry and Christian faith” cannot be considered British.

    Presumably King Charles will be banished to Greece, Germany or somewhere.

    https://bsky.app/profile/katie0martin.ft.com/post/3mmyog7n5rz2a
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,493
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    FF43 said:

    Rupert Lowe is a genuine Nazi promoting racial purity, and should be dealt with as such.

    A Restore spokesperson has said that people without “indigenous British ancestry and Christian faith” cannot be considered British.

    Presumably King Charles will be banished to Greece, Germany or somewhere.

    https://bsky.app/profile/katie0martin.ft.com/post/3mmyog7n5rz2a

    King Charles also has Scottish ancestry
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    edited May 30
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    Any thoughts on the 2 Scottish byelections on the 18th?

    SNP strong favourites in the betting for each, I see.

    Any feeling how the Unionist vote will split? I would anticipate SLab falling back a bit, but they seemed to hold on better against the Reform surge than the SCon in the Holyrood elections.

    If SCon only manage 3rd or 4th place it does look pretty dismal for them.
    I'd say the betting isn't far off, mainly because SLab and SCons have held on to the two sub-branch leaders who oversaw both parties' worst ever Scottish results. They seem to be pinning their hopes on the Murrell scandal shifting the narrative, I guess we'll need to see some Scotland only polling for evidence of that.

    The latest bit of hilarity is the Sun running a story about a wee nitwit seeing Sturgeon buying frozen pizza and garlic bread in Asda in the vicinity of Murrell's mother's home. Adding to the idiocy is that said nitwit is a SLab activist.

    https://x.com/ScottishSun/status/2060109402510680157?s=20
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    Any thoughts on the 2 Scottish byelections on the 18th?

    SNP strong favourites in the betting for each, I see.

    Any feeling how the Unionist vote will split? I would anticipate SLab falling back a bit, but they seemed to hold on better against the Reform surge than the SCon in the Holyrood elections.

    If SCon only manage 3rd or 4th place it does look pretty dismal for them.
    I'd say the betting isn't far off, mainly because SLab and SCons have held on to the two sub-branch leaders who oversaw both parties' worst ever Scottish results. They seem to be pinning their hopes on the Murrell scandal shifting the narrative, I guess we'll need to see some Scotland only polling for evidence of that.

    The lates bit of hilarity is the Sun running a story about a wee nitwit seeing Sturgeon buying frozen pizza and garlic bread in Asda in the vicinity of Murrell's mother's home. Adding to the idiocy is that said nitwit is a SLab activist.

    https://x.com/ScottishSun/status/2060109402510680157?s=20
    With tactical Reform votes the Tories would easily win Aberdeen South
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735
    Starry said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if any of the commenters on the last thread are still around, but I see we were discussing "Our Lips are Sealed". This happened to come on my daughter's playlist yesterday (the Fun Boy Three version) and I was telling her the story discussed - i.e. it was co-written by Hall and Weidlin about their affair. The thing which has always intrigued me about this was the difference between the two versions: the Go-Gos version is sunny and Californian and optimistic; the Fun Boy Three version resigned and gloomy. Both make total sense, but are very different. The videos of the two songs compound this. I often wonder if Jane Weidlin looked at the Fun Boy Three version and reevaluated a little what the relationship had meant.

    More that Californian post-punk is intrinsically more upbeat than British post-punk, reflecting the optomism of Reaganite America vs the mass unemployment of early eighties Britain.
    Can't agree with that. California was producing bands like X, Black Flag, the Germs, the Dead Kennedys etc. The sunny smile of Californian surf rock before that can't be attributed to the Republicans either. They were the enemy to the Man stopping the Kids.
    A young Belinda Carlisle looks awesome in the Our Lips are Sealed video (as does the elfin faced Jane). Belinda, of course is married to Morgan Mason (son of silken- voiced James) and a key Reagan Government operative.

    The FBT and Gogos versions might as well be different songs. Both are great by the way. But the girls singing whilst driving around LA in a drop top Buick and splashing around in a municipal fountain is a lot more cheerful than a dour looking Terry Hall.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,842
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    'Allies of Andy Burnham will form a new "council" of cross-party figures to discuss working together to stop a Reform UK government.

    The "council for the progressive majority" is being instigated by Compass, a centre-left thinktank whose founder Neal Lawson is an influential supporter of the Greater Manchester mayor.

    The council will be comprised of two leading figures from each of the progressive parties in the UK - Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

    Voters from these parties make up what Compass calls the "progressive majority" over the Conservatives and Reform and its previous incarnations.'

    https://news.sky.com/story/burnham-allies-plan-cross-party-council-to-stop-a-reform-uk-government-13549122
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    3 years to the next GE and with a leader improving,labour all over the place, and the ludicrous Surgeon Murrell scandal at the heart of the SNP, anything can happen
    Kemi is the great MacGuffin though so far one who only exists on here
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    Try keeping the 300 x Rob the Plumber coalition together for longer than 5 minutes.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,185
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    What's the odds on both Starmer and Burnham losing

    Indeed it is not beyond possibility Starmer could survive as PM

    Labour are in a mess

    Why do you bother to write this bullshit? Or if if you feel compelled at least put forward an argument
    I think you are rhe expert on writing 'b......t' and not engaging

    I raise an uncomfortable question and in typical fashion of the left you go off on one

    Read Bloomberg I posted earlier, look at the polls, and expect the unexpected
    Your filly is currently 500-1. If you are confident of Labour being 'in a mess' I can only think you are suggesting it's between Restore and Reform.

    One at 11-1 the other 4-1.

    As Labour are so clearly out of it which of 'Restore' or 'Reform' are you recommending we go for?

    Or are you thinking Kemi could still pull it off?
    Filly sums you up

    I have no idea about the result but the conservatives, lib dems, and greens are unlikely to gain 10% between them

    There is some reason to doubt Burnham will win but I hope he does as he has to beat Farage

    It is undeniable labour are in a mess

    This is getting circular. Why are labour in a mess?

    I have no particular preference. As I see it Burnham will probably win and I have no idea what happens next. That's why I come on here. A greater array of election and betting specialists will be hard to find so your synchronised cheering for Kemi under all circumstances is unhelpful.


    (Though it's Saturday and I have Arsenal losing to look forward to so don't take it personally)
    How is wanting Burnham to win cheering for Kemi ?

    There are a growing number of voters warming to Kemi as you can see in the polling and even on here

    The nightmare for the UK is either Farage or Polanski having any influence on the next government

    They are both extreme and dangerous
    Afaics the growing number of voters warming to Kemi are not so heated up as to give her their vote, or have I missed some polling?
    3 years to the next GE and with a leader improving,labour all over the place, and the ludicrous Surgeon Murrell scandal at the heart of the SNP, anything can happen
    Kemi is the great MacGuffin though so far one who only exists on here
    I've predicted before.

    Kemi will flee Essex, become an MP in Aberdeen, become the Tories most southerly MP but it will be utterly fantastic because Kemi says so.

    She might even go full on Stone Cold Steve Austin and open tins of Irn Bru between her butt cheeks
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917
    The Internet Has Become Too American to Trust
    https://thewalrus.ca/the-internet-has-become-too-american-to-trust/

    … is worth a read.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 579

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    Try keeping the 300 x Rob the Plumber coalition together for longer than 5 minutes.
    Or the current "Labour" government with a 'super majority'!
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,185

    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke

    I didn’t vote for either of the winners of the last two General Elections but “traitors” for whom a “reckoning is coming”? Really? This very excitable, angry & hyperbolic man should be nowhere near a position of responsibility in a political party that aspires to power.

    Quote
    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK

    Recent events demonstrate why I view the Tory and Labour politicians who created the burning injustice of modern Britain as traitors to their country.

    A reckoning is coming.



    https://x.com/DavidGauke/status/2060479604481986575

    Is this a Trumpian- style reckoning where opponents of the Reform Party and Reform personnel are hounded by the stolen levers of power and phenomenal amounts of dodgy cash find their way into the bank accounts of friends and family of the great and the good of Reform? Although it is happening already I can't wait until it shifts into overdrive!
    Yusuf

    An odious little shit never elected by anyone to anything
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    Brixian59 said:

    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke

    I didn’t vote for either of the winners of the last two General Elections but “traitors” for whom a “reckoning is coming”? Really? This very excitable, angry & hyperbolic man should be nowhere near a position of responsibility in a political party that aspires to power.

    Quote
    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK

    Recent events demonstrate why I view the Tory and Labour politicians who created the burning injustice of modern Britain as traitors to their country.

    A reckoning is coming.



    https://x.com/DavidGauke/status/2060479604481986575

    Is this a Trumpian- style reckoning where opponents of the Reform Party and Reform personnel are hounded by the stolen levers of power and phenomenal amounts of dodgy cash find their way into the bank accounts of friends and family of the great and the good of Reform? Although it is happening already I can't wait until it shifts into overdrive!
    Yusuf

    An odious little shit never elected by anyone to anything
    Lord Adonis ?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    'Allies of Andy Burnham will form a new "council" of cross-party figures to discuss working together to stop a Reform UK government.

    The "council for the progressive majority" is being instigated by Compass, a centre-left thinktank whose founder Neal Lawson is an influential supporter of the Greater Manchester mayor.

    The council will be comprised of two leading figures from each of the progressive parties in the UK - Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

    Voters from these parties make up what Compass calls the "progressive majority" over the Conservatives and Reform and its previous incarnations.'

    https://news.sky.com/story/burnham-allies-plan-cross-party-council-to-stop-a-reform-uk-government-13549122
    The idea the hard left, Corbynite, Greens are progressive is an interesting one.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,493
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    'Allies of Andy Burnham will form a new "council" of cross-party figures to discuss working together to stop a Reform UK government.

    The "council for the progressive majority" is being instigated by Compass, a centre-left thinktank whose founder Neal Lawson is an influential supporter of the Greater Manchester mayor.

    The council will be comprised of two leading figures from each of the progressive parties in the UK - Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

    Voters from these parties make up what Compass calls the "progressive majority" over the Conservatives and Reform and its previous incarnations.'

    https://news.sky.com/story/burnham-allies-plan-cross-party-council-to-stop-a-reform-uk-government-13549122
    Allies of Andy Burnham are getting ahead of themselves somewhat aren't they.....

    I'd love to see the tactical voting, and the right wing coalition, that this would lead to.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    'Allies of Andy Burnham will form a new "council" of cross-party figures to discuss working together to stop a Reform UK government.

    The "council for the progressive majority" is being instigated by Compass, a centre-left thinktank whose founder Neal Lawson is an influential supporter of the Greater Manchester mayor.

    The council will be comprised of two leading figures from each of the progressive parties in the UK - Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

    Voters from these parties make up what Compass calls the "progressive majority" over the Conservatives and Reform and its previous incarnations.'

    https://news.sky.com/story/burnham-allies-plan-cross-party-council-to-stop-a-reform-uk-government-13549122
    Allies of Andy Burnham are getting ahead of themselves somewhat aren't they.....

    I'd love to see the tactical voting, and the right wing coalition, that this would lead to.
    There was a lot of tactical voting at the last election and it didn’t lead to a right wing coalition. There was a lot of tactical voting in Gorton & Denton and it didn’t lead to a right wing coalition.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,672
    Afternoon all :)

    When I see all this over-hyping, I'm reminded of Brian Rose's 2021 and 2024 London Mayoral runs.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    edited May 30
    If Restore can establish themselves (and they have the money and Online reach), then we are talking 6 party politics. 7 in Scotland and Wales.
    Cross party cooperation then becomes inevitable if you want to win. So you need to do it before the other side does.
    Party x or y sticking their fingers in their ears and saying they are aiming for a majority government is a sure fire way to lose.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,735
    edited May 30
    Brixian59 said:

    David Gauke
    @DavidGauke

    I didn’t vote for either of the winners of the last two General Elections but “traitors” for whom a “reckoning is coming”? Really? This very excitable, angry & hyperbolic man should be nowhere near a position of responsibility in a political party that aspires to power.

    Quote
    Zia Yusuf

    @ZiaYusufUK

    Recent events demonstrate why I view the Tory and Labour politicians who created the burning injustice of modern Britain as traitors to their country.

    A reckoning is coming.



    https://x.com/DavidGauke/status/2060479604481986575

    Is this a Trumpian- style reckoning where opponents of the Reform Party and Reform personnel are hounded by the stolen levers of power and phenomenal amounts of dodgy cash find their way into the bank accounts of friends and family of the great and the good of Reform? Although it is happening already I can't wait until it shifts into overdrive!
    Yusuf

    An odious little shit never elected by anyone to anything
    I preferred him when he was plain old Cat Stevens🤣
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,447
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    I see the BMG polling suggests my gut instinct on Burnham not being able to save the tarnished Labour brand...

    That said, interesting to hear from someone on the spot that Burnham being a 'carpetbagger' might not help.....

    On the BMG poll Reform would win most seats but Burnham could be PM with LD, SNP, PC and Green and MIN support and the BMG poll is the worst hypthetical poll for him,MiC and Deltapoll both have Labour winning most seats with Burnham their leader
    Lol, try keeping that coalition together.
    'Allies of Andy Burnham will form a new "council" of cross-party figures to discuss working together to stop a Reform UK government.

    The "council for the progressive majority" is being instigated by Compass, a centre-left thinktank whose founder Neal Lawson is an influential supporter of the Greater Manchester mayor.

    The council will be comprised of two leading figures from each of the progressive parties in the UK - Labour, the Liberal Democrats, the Greens, the SNP and Plaid Cymru.

    Voters from these parties make up what Compass calls the "progressive majority" over the Conservatives and Reform and its previous incarnations.'

    https://news.sky.com/story/burnham-allies-plan-cross-party-council-to-stop-a-reform-uk-government-13549122
    The fecking Greens?

    Might as well invite the SWP.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428
    edited May 30
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    I wasn't really aware of More in Common's polling segments.
    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/

    "Established Liberals" seems a slightly misleading name for a group only one in five of whom vote LibDem.
    But it clearly captures something:

    This doesn't surprise me, while Labour's vote is down across 6 of our 7 segments, Established Liberals - the most comfortable, optimistic, internationalist group - are an exception. Among ELs Labour's vote hasn't dropped at all and they likely dominate audiences places like Hay
    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116

    The most interesting fact from that is the Conservatives now tie Labour for the lead with Established Liberals with the LDs third and Reform only 4th amongst this elite group.

    https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/2060414799675003116?s=20
    In a segment the Conservatives won overwhelmingly in 2019, and narrowly in 2024.
    Established Liberals are the only group the Tories now lead with, albeit tied with Starmer Labour, of the other groups they won in 2024, Rooted Patriots now have a big Reform lead and Traditional Conservatives now narrowly prefer Reform over the Tories too.

    Boris won Dissenting Disruptors in 2019 but that group narrowly went Labour in 2024 and is now majority Reform. Sceptical Scrollers also went for Boris in 2019, strongly for Labour in 2024 and now Reform has a clear lead with that group as well.

    Of the 2 traditionally left leaning groups Corbyn won in 2019 and Starmer in 2024, Labour still lead clearly with the Incrementalist Left but Labour only narrowly lead the Greens with Progressive Activists


    https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/seven-segments/
    WRT the seven segments, two large groups are overlooked.

    The group of people who can feel something of the sentiments, and share elements of all or nearly all the seven identities is missing.

    And the group of people who don't really think about the civil or political order at all, who don't vote, participate in what is around them, only pick up news in tiny bites, couldn't locate France or Edinburgh on a map and never read a book. Their representatives are a large chunk of the the 13 million registered voters who didn't vote in the 2016 referendum, the 19 million who didn't vote in 2024, and the 8 million or so who are not registered to vote in the first place.

    In small town WWC communities there are loads of these, I know lots and I am very fond of them.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,559
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    When I see all this over-hyping, I'm reminded of Brian Rose's 2021 and 2024 London Mayoral runs.

    Except there are two vital differences.
    Restore have an established local Party, therefore a ground game.
    And pollsters and canvassers are picking up a level of support. The size of it is in question, but it isn't negligible.
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