Skip to content

The Abusive State – politicalbetting.com

245

Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    Cabinet ministers attempted to conceal their messages with Lord Mandelson from Parliament, The Telegraph can reveal.

    Government officials dealing with the Mandelson files were forced to ask ministers to hand over their messages more than once, after initial reluctance. Under the terms of a “humble address” motion drafted by the Conservatives in February, ministers, officials and special advisers were required to submit all WhatsApp and email messages exchanged with Lord Mandelson.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2026/05/28/ministers-tried-hide-mandelson-messages/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Another good header from Cyclefree, which along with the majority of PBers (and probably the rest of the public, too) I'm in sympathy with.

    Two comments here - while she is right to condemn the "cheeseparing' when it comes to compensation, the figures government pays out in compensation every year are quite significant. It's difficult to get a total figure, as government doesn't publish one, but it's likely well over £5bn excluding exceptional cases like the blood, and Post Office scandals.
    I'm not sure what conclusion to draw from that, other than just doing stuff better would save us an awful lot of money.

    Secondly, it seems to me that there's little reason we shouldn't pick out the most senior figures in the PO scandal who are most clearly likely to have been in breach of the law, and save years of investigation by concentrating on investigating and prosecuting them first.
    That ought to be doable with existing resources.

    When government fucks up, the money should be there to right that (invariably) egregious wrong.

    No ifs, no buts. Imagine you or a loved one on the end of that "cheeseparing". Yep, we'd both be incandescent.
    Worth remembering that in 2003 Alan Bates wrote a letter to the then Chief Executive, Allan Leighton, which set out concisely the 2 key problems with Horizon which it later took a judge over 500 pages to explain in 2019. Had his complaints - and he was in effect a whistleblower - been looked into properly, had they had a Cyclefree Investigations Team, much agony and eye watering cost would have been avoided. The PO's investigations team was nothing of the kind. A decade was lost because so-called managers did not know how to deal with a complaint. This is - to me - a level of incompetence which should never be tolerated, let alone rewarded in the way that it has been. Leighton should be in the stocks quite as much as Vennells.

    A decade was lost in the case of Malkinson too.

    The blood contamination case is even worse. I've read the report. It makes you weep. I and my brother have a rare blood condition and we were treated for it at the Royal Free's haemophilia unit run by Dr Kernoff. He was one of the doctors who warned government about the problem with infected blood products. It was our sheer good fortune that we did not get treated with any of the infected blood. I have lost all trust in the authorities to behave with any sense of decency towards me should something dreadful be done to me by those authorities. Such good behaviour as there is comes from individuals trying to behave professionally within a system which either makes this harder than it need be or does not reward or value it. And it is incidentally one reason why I am against AD - give the state the power to suggest suicide to those people who will cost it a lot to treat or help (like me, now) and that power will, without question, be abused - no matter what any procedure says.
    I think you’re mixing up the two versions of Horizon there. The earlier EPOSS version - generally called legacy horizon, would be the version that was being written about in 2003. Everybody in the business knew back then that it didn’t work; I remember sitting down to lunch in the canteen with people working on it, who were in despair at all its bugs. So if Bates wrote about it, he wasn’t telling the business anything it didn’t already know. The later Fujitsu Horizon was a different beast entirely.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    Like socialism, it will always be different the next time.
    Lol! ...unlike Neoliberalism which is always the same old failure.
    True. We need socialism. Let’s make everyone poorer. That’s just the ticket.

    Finish your new build and it can be turned over to a hippy commune 👍
    It's all done Taz. We moved in in February. Nine months to build from digging the first sod to moving in. We're now working on the garden which is very fulfilling.

    No hippies on site or in sight.
    Nice one

    I did look at the webpage a couple of times after you mentioned it it.

    I couldn’t do it, wouldn’t gave the patience.

    I thought you’d planted some apple trees.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,139
    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,757
    Cyclefree said:

    viewcode said:

    Cyclefree said:



    viewcode said:

    Good article @Cyclefree . It is good to see you still writing articles. How are you feeling?

    It's been a tough few months this year, frankly. Hip and leg pain which has made mobility difficult and which no-one seems to know the cause of. Going for a walk is slower and more painful than I would like and that, coupled with learning for the first time that the cancer is in my lungs as well has rather depressed me. And I have had two bad falls - which is also a pain.

    OTOH it has accelerated my garden creation with some mesmeringly beautiful and high stone raised beds near completion, the Gertrude Jekyll roses are doing brilliantly, the garden room - designed by me (afternoon tea below plus roses) - is finished, my book proposal is coming along well, am doing lots of other writing and my humour has become blacker than ever. Also reading lots of great books. Plus today I bought two rather nice paintings by a local and very good artist, Jim Billsborough. There is an exhibition this weekend of his work at the local church which was sketched by Turner.

    Oh - and I have still written vastly more headers than you! 295 in fact.

    PS Thames Water are utter scumbags.
    Do you have carers coming round to check on you? I know benefits vary between areas but you may be entitled to more than you are currently claiming.
    Goodness I'm not at that stage yet. I don't claim any benefits, other than free parking at the hospital. Hadn't even occurred to me. I have my 24 hour cancer hotline number. And I have a husband. I am determined to live as active and independent life as I can until the end. Hence the raised beds are 600 mm high so that there is limited bending. I am hoping to get it to such a stage that next year I can open it for viewing and plant sales/teas to raise money for our local hospice.
    Fair enough, but it's there if you need it and don't be too proud to claim: it's what it's there for.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/POLITICOEurope/status/2060027801344889106

    Spain is withdrawing its support from a French-led initiative to boost the EU’s trade defenses against China, its economy and trade minister has said.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,139
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    I'll try and work it out for my employer but it shows (I think) people either work for teeny tiny companies or megacorps that both (In different ways) don't particularly raise much corp tax. A big old hollowing of the middle
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,755

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    viewcode said:

    I don't know if anybody read the Unherd article about bring back Blair, but here it is

    https://unherd.com/2026/05/its-time-to-bring-back-blair/

    I'm still a fan of 90s and 00s Blair and think he remains impressive. However he is now a political version of the typical aging bloke who thinks the only good music was from their own era. Blair thinks the answers are just to repeat what worked back then, but the challenges and opportunities are quite different today and over the next couple of decades. He is still worth listening to but he will often be wrong nowadays.
    If Blair was still PM today, having served continuously since 1997, we'd probably all be better off for it, not so much because he's so amazing, but because everyone else has been so disappointing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 28
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    And people wonder why we have so many young people not in work, its bloody expensive to employ people.

    The core issue is that really businesses should be mainly taxed on profits with some contributions towards workers benefits. However, mega corps have taken the piss over taxes on profits, so governments have focused more and more on turn over taxes. This does help extract more money from your serial offenders Amazon's and Starbucks, but absolutely kills small business and particularly small business trying to become a medium business. Its really bad in sectors like hospitality where you need high staffing, there is the VAT issue, etc.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,610
    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    It's a really informative way of displaying tax distribution.
    Most people don't have a good sense of the relative magnitudes of the major (and minor) taxes - in the same way we're often very bad at estimating how our taxes are spent.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,424
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    I don't know if anybody read the Unherd article about bring back Blair, but here it is

    https://unherd.com/2026/05/its-time-to-bring-back-blair/

    I'm still a fan of 90s and 00s Blair and think he remains impressive. However he is now a political version of the typical aging bloke who thinks the only good music was from their own era. Blair thinks the answers are just to repeat what worked back then, but the challenges and opportunities are quite different today and over the next couple of decades. He is still worth listening to but he will often be wrong nowadays.
    If Blair was still PM today, having served continuously since 1997, we'd probably all be better off for it, not so much because he's so amazing, but because everyone else has been so disappointing.
    There are only so many US military misadventures that we could have participated in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,610
    Is Korea starting to pull out of the demographic nosedive ?
    Or is this just a blip ?

    S.Korea 03.2026
    births 25,200 (+19.4%)!!!!!!
    deaths 31,423 (+1.3%)
    TFR 0.93

    https://x.com/andyd10/status/2059531979167568028
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,177

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    Germany '45.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 28
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    It's a really informative way of displaying tax distribution.
    Most people don't have a good sense of the relative magnitudes of the major (and minor) taxes - in the same way we're often very bad at estimating how our taxes are spent.
    They really don't when it comes to other people and businesses. Hence the easy slogan of tax the rich...as if they aren't being taxed a lot already and make up a huge proportion of particularly all of income tax revenue. Mr Haaland is paying more tax in a year than 100s of people will ever pay in income tax combined.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    I think he might qualify for ILR, though perhaps not with Restore. Mother - Princess Royal; grandfather - King of England; great grandfather - king of England; two uncles - kings of England. Bits of Scottish and Welsh blood creep in via Mary Queen of Scots and Henry VII. Arrest. Deport. Do not pass go.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,610
    Looks as though we'll be providing some of the electronic guts for Ukraine's Gripens

    Major new Swedish fighter jet deal to strengthen Ukraine and boost British jobs
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/major-new-swedish-fighter-jet-deal-to-strengthen-ukraine-and-boost-british-jobs

    If they get the Meteor too, it will compound Russia's problems in the air.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 81,139
    Nigelb said:

    Is Korea starting to pull out of the demographic nosedive ?
    Or is this just a blip ?

    S.Korea 03.2026
    births 25,200 (+19.4%)!!!!!!
    deaths 31,423 (+1.3%)
    TFR 0.93

    https://x.com/andyd10/status/2059531979167568028

    Natural variation ?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    Whether he was victim or the assailant in the events leading to the assault is irrelevant. He needed urgent medical attention. That is all the Police needed to do at that moment in time.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224
    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    It's complicated. Per BBC:

    "Temporary deputy chief constable France told the BBC: "This was an extremely complex investigation and actually the scene itself was extremely complex when officers arrived.

    "They were lied to in the 999 call by Henry's killer, they were lied to as they arrived at the scene and we know that as a result they didn't understand what had happened for several minutes and that is an absolute tragedy."

    He said the force had referred itself to the IOPC.

    "It is a tragedy that officers did not immediately understand what had happened to Henry," he said. "I'm sorry that he had been handcuffed and arrested as he lost consciousness. I don't want to hide the facts. I want people to understand the full facts."

    Cat nip for culture wars though.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,242

    Andy has written a response to Mr Blair's piece.

    Burnham says we need a stronger response on small boats and implies Mahmood is making good progress. I suspect she stays in place.

    Implicit assumption that he'll be able to progress over all the hoops. Makerfield may end up being Break-er-field if the win (assuming there is one) is not convincing. The whole AB thing is a Westminster bubble,
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    Nigelb said:

    Is Korea starting to pull out of the demographic nosedive ?
    Or is this just a blip ?

    S.Korea 03.2026
    births 25,200 (+19.4%)!!!!!!
    deaths 31,423 (+1.3%)
    TFR 0.93

    https://x.com/andyd10/status/2059531979167568028

    So, was last summer their summer of love?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,755

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    Iran is three times the size of France.

    Clueless on how many Belgiums that is.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,242

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    What about William 1. Does he not get a mention?
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,093

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    Iran is three times the size of France.

    Clueless on how many Belgiums that is.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran
    But we don’t have to take all of Iran. Just a little bit and the rest will fall into line.

    The PB armchair general brigade plan is on a par with the plans prior to the 28th Feb attack by Israel and US on Iran.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,755
    Battlebus said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    What about William 1. Does he not get a mention?
    He was the first of them!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    Like socialism, it will always be different the next time.
    Lol! ...unlike Neoliberalism which is always the same old failure.
    True. We need socialism. Let’s make everyone poorer. That’s just the ticket.

    Finish your new build and it can be turned over to a hippy commune 👍
    It's all done Taz. We moved in in February. Nine months to build from digging the first sod to moving in. We're now working on the garden which is very fulfilling.

    No hippies on site or in sight.
    Nice one

    I did look at the webpage a couple of times after you mentioned it it.

    I couldn’t do it, wouldn’t gave the patience.

    I thought you’d planted some apple trees.
    No apple trees but about a dozen non-fruit trees: birch, maple, willow, that type of thing. Mrs P. is manically watering to get them through their first summer.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909
    edited May 28
    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    It's disturbing but what exactly else could the police do at that moment in time - when all the facts available to you are a pack of lies...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    Battlebus said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    What about William 1. Does he not get a mention?
    He was a fucking disaster as King. Ask any Yorkshireman.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,177
    I'd say the Roman conquest of Britain (well the important bits at least) counts.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,909

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    And people wonder why we have so many young people not in work, its bloody expensive to employ people.

    The core issue is that really businesses should be mainly taxed on profits with some contributions towards workers benefits. However, mega corps have taken the piss over taxes on profits, so governments have focused more and more on turn over taxes. This does help extract more money from your serial offenders Amazon's and Starbucks, but absolutely kills small business and particularly small business trying to become a medium business. Its really bad in sectors like hospitality where you need high staffing, there is the VAT issue, etc.
    If you think employer NI rates are high here you should see what they look like elsewhere in europe. 15.5% is low compared to many countries.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    Battlebus said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    What about William 1. Does he not get a mention?
    In true PB fashion we have strayed somewhat from the original "where regime change imposed by the West has worked out well" question.

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    Bad news for @kinabalu. There’s no sign of Wes’s chiselled new look in the latest video.

    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/2060028769956429862
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011

    I'd say the Roman conquest of Britain (well the important bits at least) counts.

    Counts as "regime change imposed by the West" ?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/2060043702035218903

    Tony Blair might not like my plan, but he's wrong: it's changing Britain for the better.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 61,131
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    It's disturbing but what exactly else could the police do at that moment in time - when all the facts available to you are a pack of lies...
    Had a modicum of common sense?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,011
    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    I think he might qualify for ILR, though perhaps not with Restore. Mother - Princess Royal; grandfather - King of England; great grandfather - king of England; two uncles - kings of England. Bits of Scottish and Welsh blood creep in via Mary Queen of Scots and Henry VII. Arrest. Deport. Do not pass go.

    George I would have failed the Secure English Language Test.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    I'd say the Roman conquest of Britain (well the important bits at least) counts.

    Counts as "regime change imposed by the West" ?
    Well, the first effort post Caesar was imposed via client kings and so more or less by occident.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,755

    Battlebus said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    England 1688.
    Regime change imposed by the West?

    1688 was regime change driven from within, which is a completely different beast.
    It was an invasion to support one domestic faction against another. Much like backing the northern alliance in Afghanistan.
    William III was a Johnny Foreigner usurper. Discuss.
    What about William 1. Does he not get a mention?
    In true PB fashion we have strayed somewhat from the original "where regime change imposed by the West has worked out well" question.

    Normandy was in the West.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,566
    edited May 28
    Sir Keir Starmer has been following my examples of humblebrags/legendary modesty.

    With characteristic lucidity, Tony Blair has set out his own contribution to the debate about the future of our country and the Labour Party. This is welcome, not least because I respect his opinion. He is one of few people in this country who knows what it is like to serve as Prime Minister and the only other living person to have secured a Labour majority. When he speaks on politics, I find it usually pays to listen.

    https://keirstarmer.substack.com/p/tony-blair-might-not-like-my-plan
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834

    Sir Keir Starmer has been following my examples of humblebrags/legendary modesty.

    With characteristic lucidity, Tony Blair has set out his own contribution to the debate about the future of our country and the Labour Party. This is welcome, not least because I respect his opinion. He is one of few people in this country who knows what it is like to serve as Prime Minister and the only other living person to have secured a Labour majority. When he speaks on politics, I find it usually pays to listen.

    https://keirstarmer.substack.com/p/tony-blair-might-not-like-my-plan

    "Unlike the loser I recently gave an advisory role to..."
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2059979930620870827

    A Restore Britain Government will ban the Kirpan in public spaces.

    One rule for all.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224

    Sir Keir Starmer has been following my examples of humblebrags/legendary modesty.

    With characteristic lucidity, Tony Blair has set out his own contribution to the debate about the future of our country and the Labour Party. This is welcome, not least because I respect his opinion. He is one of few people in this country who knows what it is like to serve as Prime Minister and the only other living person to have secured a Labour majority. When he speaks on politics, I find it usually pays to listen.

    https://keirstarmer.substack.com/p/tony-blair-might-not-like-my-plan

    He thinks he might survive this!

    "The Quiet Man is turning up the volume!"
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,872
    Decades ago, I read Carl Zimmer's Parasite Rex, and have found that it explains much, even in politics. (For example, the Loser's relationship with the Republican Party.) As I recall, Zimmer noted that about 60 percent of known species are parasites.

    So, we should not be surprised when individuals, and even whole departments and agencies became parasitical -- and that, the more successful a nation, the more parasites it will have. Which means, to extend the analogy one more step, the more successful a nation becomes, the more it will need to strengthen its "immune system", the more it will need people like Cyclefree.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,610
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Korea starting to pull out of the demographic nosedive ?
    Or is this just a blip ?

    S.Korea 03.2026
    births 25,200 (+19.4%)!!!!!!
    deaths 31,423 (+1.3%)
    TFR 0.93

    https://x.com/andyd10/status/2059531979167568028

    So, was last summer their summer of love?
    A New Hope,
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2025_South_Korean_presidential_election
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    edited May 28
    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,949
    Portugal has set a new hottest day in May with 40.3C recorded in the central town of Mora, as countries in western Europe grapple with sweltering-hot weather.

    Toasty
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    Germany, Japan, Iraq.
    The first two were not originally about regime change as much as survival and defence against evil agression.

    Iraq? Oh my, definitely not.
    Is Iraq better today than it was under Saddam?

    A simple yes or no will suffice.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 39,752
    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    I don't know if anybody read the Unherd article about bring back Blair, but here it is

    https://unherd.com/2026/05/its-time-to-bring-back-blair/

    I'm still a fan of 90s and 00s Blair and think he remains impressive. However he is now a political version of the typical aging bloke who thinks the only good music was from their own era. Blair thinks the answers are just to repeat what worked back then, but the challenges and opportunities are quite different today and over the next couple of decades. He is still worth listening to but he will often be wrong nowadays.
    I agree

    Blairism was essentially buying of key swing voter groups with public money from a flourishing economy delivered by the Thatcher and Major governments. Other components, like flooding the country with immigrants, worship of "spin", i.e. lies, bungled wars and constitutional vandalism were peripheral.

    As the Heir-to-Blair Conservative government didn't deliver a flourishing economy, Blairism now would be impossible.

    So Blair should slither somewhere far away.
    I can't dispute the bungled wars with Iraq and Afghanistan. Most of the rest of your narrative isn't true, certainly for non Conservatives.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    Sir Keir Starmer has been following my examples of humblebrags/legendary modesty.

    With characteristic lucidity, Tony Blair has set out his own contribution to the debate about the future of our country and the Labour Party. This is welcome, not least because I respect his opinion. He is one of few people in this country who knows what it is like to serve as Prime Minister and the only other living person to have secured a Labour majority. When he speaks on politics, I find it usually pays to listen.

    https://keirstarmer.substack.com/p/tony-blair-might-not-like-my-plan

    That got me thinking, and it occurred to me that from 1995 to 1997 there was no living Labour leader to have won a majority. The only time that had happened since 1967.

    But it also occurred to me that with that in mind there has never been more than one living Labour leader other than an incumbent PM to have won a majority. So if Starmer is turfed out that will set a new record.

    Curiously the Tories despite their reputation for sacking leader every five minutes have few equivalent periods. In fact I think 1955-57 and 2013-15 would be the only ones since the war. There have been times when there were no living former election winners - 1947-51, 1923-24 and 1902-1922 - but then generally they have been more electorally successful than Labour.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,936
    Met a new friend at lunch today


  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,781
    edited May 28
    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    And people wonder why we have so many young people not in work, its bloody expensive to employ people.

    The core issue is that really businesses should be mainly taxed on profits with some contributions towards workers benefits. However, mega corps have taken the piss over taxes on profits, so governments have focused more and more on turn over taxes. This does help extract more money from your serial offenders Amazon's and Starbucks, but absolutely kills small business and particularly small business trying to become a medium business. Its really bad in sectors like hospitality where you need high staffing, there is the VAT issue, etc.
    If you think employer NI rates are high here you should see what they look like elsewhere in europe. 15.5% is low compared to many countries.
    And (youth) unemployment is even worse in many of those countries.

    Two wrongs do not make a right.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    Met a new friend at lunch today


    Were they at the rave, or keeping the music down to be good neigh-bours?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?

    It will be a very short book given how prone she is to forgetting things.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    edited May 28
    ydoethur said:

    Met a new friend at lunch today


    Were they at the rave, or keeping the music down to be good neigh-bours?
    I think its too loud for them to be conversing. The one on the right is a little hoarse.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,335
    eek said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    It's disturbing but what exactly else could the police do at that moment in time - when all the facts available to you are a pack of lies...
    The police should have treated his stab wounds (and called for help) rather than handcuffing him.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Met a new friend at lunch today


    Were they at the rave, or keeping the music down to be good neigh-bours?
    I think it's too loud for them to be conversing. The one on the right is a little hoarse.
    I cry foal sir.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,677

    Bad news for @kinabalu. There’s no sign of Wes’s chiselled new look in the latest video.

    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/2060028769956429862

    It must have been AI. I did suspect it was tbf.
  • ManchesterKurtManchesterKurt Posts: 1,003

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    And people wonder why we have so many young people not in work, its bloody expensive to employ people.

    The core issue is that really businesses should be mainly taxed on profits with some contributions towards workers benefits. However, mega corps have taken the piss over taxes on profits, so governments have focused more and more on turn over taxes. This does help extract more money from your serial offenders Amazon's and Starbucks, but absolutely kills small business and particularly small business trying to become a medium business. Its really bad in sectors like hospitality where you need high staffing, there is the VAT issue, etc.
    If you think employer NI rates are high here you should see what they look like elsewhere in europe. 15.5% is low compared to many countries.
    And (youth) unemployment is even worse in many of those countries.

    Two wrongs do not make a right.
    Factually incorrect.

    The only EU country with higher NEETS age 16-24 is Romania.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    Knew it would be a cyclefree article from the title. Much to infuriate.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    edited May 28
    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    Hello. Does anyone do better? What and where does good look like, or is this kind of after the fact ill treatment rife in democracies everywhere (and just more widespread in the places we expect to be abusive to their peoples)?

    I wanted to ask this too. Not that it makes the shocking examples @Cyclefree has highlighted any less shocking if every other state is just as bad or worse.

    My other question is what needs to change? Attitudes, clearly, but would further legislation help, or only make things worse?
    I fear such scandals can arise everywhere, across different countries, in the private sector as well as the public sector. That is not to say that we shouldn't or can't do something to minimise them occurring!

    In Ireland, there were the Magdalene laundries for "fallen women", the last of which only closed in 1996. Sexual, psychological and physical abuse was all too common. The Irish government acknowledged the problem in 2001, but resisted calls to do anything until 2011. You could look at the actions of the tobacco industry to deliberately conspire and lie about the dangers of tobacco for decades, or of the fossil fuel industry to do the same around climate change. Or how Volkswagen tried to cover up its emissions scandal.
    The Irish - and Irish men, in particular - are such hypocrites about the Magdalene laundries. Those girls did not make themselves pregnant. All the Irish men who got them pregnant were more than content to let those girls be hidden away in those laundries and their babies abandoned, allowed to die or sold for adoption. They walked away without taking any responsibility at all for their own behaviour.

    Then when the stories came out of the cruelty and abuse the nuns rightly got blamed. But Irish men were perfectly content for the nuns to take on the burden. They did not give a toss about what the nuns were doing when it happened. They did nothing to help those girls or their own children. And then they turned round and blamed the women for dealing with the consequences of the men's own behaviour. And congratulated themselves on uncovering abuse they'd happily participated in and turned a blind eye to for decades.

    Utter bastards, the lot of them.
    True.

    I would add that one of the most nauseating forms of official hypocrisy in the modern era is to give eloquent apologies for the actions of people long dead, while evading responsibility for far more recent misdeeds.
    Allows them to posture as good people with minimal effort.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,220
    Apparently it has been revealed that The Plumber called Brexit 'Nationalist pish that will ruin the economy' - unsurprising that someone so sordid would turn out to be a remainer.

    So we now have a byelection between an embarassed rejoiner and an embarassed former remainer.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    ydoethur said:

    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?

    It will be a very short book given how prone she is to forgetting things.
    Is it true she referred to him as her former husband in a statement but they are just separated? If so she is not one for detail.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,677
    kle4 said:

    Knew it would be a cyclefree article from the title. Much to infuriate.

    Bit harsh.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,220

    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?

    Didn't come across her desk?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794

    eek said:

    eek said:

    My main concern - alarm bells are ringing - is that we’re hearing the same things from Burnham’s team that we heard from Starmer’s in 2024.

    “The plan will come”.

    I won’t be lied to twice.

    Are you not including Corbyn too? Or did you not regard him as lying. more deluded?
    Corbyn lied about anti-Semitism. But that wasn’t not having a plan per se.
    I think his lies were more about the extent of the things he was going to provide - free wifi for all etc.
    I didn't doubt there was a plan to do those things, though. It wouldn’t have been delivered but I think they did have a plan.

    Burnham doesn’t seem to have a plan. Better comms will start him off well but it will only take him so far. Get Blair back in.
    If Blair was PM we would have troops in Iran and be in Trump’s pocket. Is that what you want?
    Yes, and hell no.
    You want our troops in Iran - what would they be doing
    Regime change.

    Support a new leader, eg Pahlavi, to take over the powers of the state and get their own army running things in Tehran and the oil fields etc (to control money) not the entire mountainous country, then let that leader take it from there.
    Um you clearly haven’t the first clue as how big and geographically awkward Iran is.
    I do, which is why I literally said do not take the entire country.

    Try reading what you respond to next time.
    Can you highlight an example where regime changew imposed by the West has worked out well in the long term? I don't say there won't be an example, I just can't think of any, whereas I can think of lots where it's gone badly.
    Germany, Japan, Iraq.
    The first two were not originally about regime change as much as survival and defence against evil agression.

    Iraq? Oh my, definitely not.
    Is Iraq better today than it was under Saddam?

    A simple yes or no will suffice.
    I have no idea. Probably?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794

    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2059979930620870827

    A Restore Britain Government will ban the Kirpan in public spaces.

    One rule for all.
    The British do love to ban things in general, tapping in to that is wise.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,876
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Met a new friend at lunch today


    Were they at the rave, or keeping the music down to be good neigh-bours?
    I think its too loud for them to be conversing. The one on the right is a little hoarse.
    Are you sure he’s not just further away?
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,791
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?

    It will be a very short book given how prone she is to forgetting things.
    Is it true she referred to him as her former husband in a statement but they are just separated? If so she is not one for detail.
    Her ploy has been to present herself as 'the victim in all this'. Nauseating - frankly Nicola I couldn't give a sh*t whether you're Ok or not.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,610
    John Williams is still scoring Spielberg movies at 94 .
    https://x.com/CinemaTweets1/status/2060003563598995945

    Is this the future of work for the rest of us ?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2059979930620870827

    A Restore Britain Government will ban the Kirpan in public spaces.

    One rule for all.
    The British do love to ban things in general, tapping in to that is wise.
    He's right that the same laws and rules should apply to everyone, without exceptions. Anything else is discriminatory.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,335

    Apparently it has been revealed that The Plumber called Brexit 'Nationalist pish that will ruin the economy' - unsurprising that someone so sordid would turn out to be a remainer.

    So we now have a byelection between an embarassed rejoiner and an embarassed former remainer.

    I remain tied to my Brexit theory that Theresa May was a Leaver pretending to be a Remainer, and Boris a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,610
    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2059979930620870827

    A Restore Britain Government will ban the Kirpan in public spaces.

    One rule for all.
    The British do love to ban things in general, tapping in to that is wise.
    He's right that the same laws and rules should apply to everyone, without exceptions. Anything else is discriminatory.
    Exceptions are built into laws all the time, the question is what is reasonable not never have them at all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    Nigelb said:

    John Williams is still scoring Spielberg movies at 94 .
    https://x.com/CinemaTweets1/status/2060003563598995945

    Is this the future of work for the rest of us ?

    If the future is more music by John Williams, sign me up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488

    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?

    Didn't come across her desk?
    That sounds more like the sort of thing Lloyd George would do.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,878
    Re header: @Cyclefree, it seems that many of your concerns are how the rest of us victimise others. How society is unfair. We do, and it is. We try not to and want to avoid such a thing.

    Reality needs to give you a gentle knock on the door, and when you open it you'll find many thousands of innocents enquiring what you're on about.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 79,488
    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,794
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
    He loves that mugshot though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
    Wait until you see how Donald has debased the White House with his Tennessee trailer park makeover:



  • RandallFlaggRandallFlagg Posts: 1,493

    Apparently it has been revealed that The Plumber called Brexit 'Nationalist pish that will ruin the economy' - unsurprising that someone so sordid would turn out to be a remainer.

    So we now have a byelection between an embarassed rejoiner and an embarassed former remainer.

    I'm sure if you forgave Liz Truss for voting remain you can forgive the a***hole obsessed plumber.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892

    eek said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "90 UK taxes. On one chart.

    By Dan Neidle"

    https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2026/05/28/90-uk-taxes/

    Never realised employer NIC was higher than corporation tax take. That to my mind is very very worrying
    And people wonder why we have so many young people not in work, its bloody expensive to employ people.

    The core issue is that really businesses should be mainly taxed on profits with some contributions towards workers benefits. However, mega corps have taken the piss over taxes on profits, so governments have focused more and more on turn over taxes. This does help extract more money from your serial offenders Amazon's and Starbucks, but absolutely kills small business and particularly small business trying to become a medium business. Its really bad in sectors like hospitality where you need high staffing, there is the VAT issue, etc.
    If you think employer NI rates are high here you should see what they look like elsewhere in europe. 15.5% is low compared to many countries.
    And (youth) unemployment is even worse in many of those countries.

    Two wrongs do not make a right.
    Factually incorrect.

    The only EU country with higher NEETS age 16-24 is Romania.
    I suspect the relentless pointing out of how much worse youth unemployment was in other European countries by the usual suspects over the years is part of the reason for much taking of eyes off balls. Quite remarkable how this situation seems to have taken people unawares.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,878
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
    Wait until you see how Donald has debased the White House with his Tennessee trailer park makeover:



    They'll sell more tickets that the White House ever did before.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,892
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nicola Sturgeon has said she was "deceived, betrayed and lied to" by her estranged husband Peter Murrell as he embezzled hundreds of thousands of pounds from the SNP.

    Sturgeon appeared at a writers' event in Listowel, County Kerry, in conversation with author Andrew O'Hagan to promote her memoir, Frankly.

    BBC News - Sturgeon says she was deceived and betrayed over Murrell embezzlement
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpdp3d8792no

    Will the paperaback be called "Frankly...I didnt have a clue" ?

    It will be a very short book given how prone she is to forgetting things.
    Is it true she referred to him as her former husband in a statement but they are just separated? If so she is not one for detail.
    Pete’s hopes of them getting back together cruelly dashed.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352

    Apparently it has been revealed that The Plumber called Brexit 'Nationalist pish that will ruin the economy' - unsurprising that someone so sordid would turn out to be a remainer.

    So we now have a byelection between an embarassed rejoiner and an embarassed former remainer.

    I remain tied to my Brexit theory that Theresa May was a Leaver pretending to be a Remainer, and Boris a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver.
    The latter is certainly true.

    He even wrote two essays.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,677
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
    He loves that mugshot though.
    He does. Thinks it shows the toughest handsomest son of a gun there's ever been.
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 998

    Sir Keir Starmer has been following my examples of humblebrags/legendary modesty.

    With characteristic lucidity, Tony Blair has set out his own contribution to the debate about the future of our country and the Labour Party. This is welcome, not least because I respect his opinion. He is one of few people in this country who knows what it is like to serve as Prime Minister and the only other living person to have secured a Labour majority. When he speaks on politics, I find it usually pays to listen.

    https://keirstarmer.substack.com/p/tony-blair-might-not-like-my-plan

    It's actually not a bad article, but it's a bit lengthy.

    On the substance, Wes Streeting himself gave a good explanation about why it's so hard for the Government to communicate it's record positively. Essentially, the baseline is so bad, even substantial improvement in whatever metric is not felt by the population at large. Streeting gave the example of waiting lists. They might be down by X% but the average person waiting for an operation would scoff at the boast.

    Those who think that all Burnham need do is communicate success better should probably take note.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    Apparently it has been revealed that The Plumber called Brexit 'Nationalist pish that will ruin the economy' - unsurprising that someone so sordid would turn out to be a remainer.

    So we now have a byelection between an embarassed rejoiner and an embarassed former remainer.

    I remain tied to my Brexit theory that Theresa May was a Leaver pretending to be a Remainer, and Boris a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver.
    Did Boris really make it to number 10? Maybe I just imagined it.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,878
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
    He loves that mugshot though.
    He does. Thinks it shows the toughest handsomest son of a gun there's ever been.
    I see the odd floater in his countenace.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    Extreme Temperatures Around The World
    @extremetemps
    ·
    19m

    ‼️EXTRAORDINARY 39 DEGREES IN FRANCE
    🌡️FRENCH HOTTEST SPRING DAY IN HISTORY

    39.0C Fitou

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/2060061861899350468


  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,220

    Apparently it has been revealed that The Plumber called Brexit 'Nationalist pish that will ruin the economy' - unsurprising that someone so sordid would turn out to be a remainer.

    So we now have a byelection between an embarassed rejoiner and an embarassed former remainer.

    I remain tied to my Brexit theory that Theresa May was a Leaver pretending to be a Remainer, and Boris a Remainer pretending to be a Leaver.
    An interesting theory - I can't really see the justification for it in May's case. She was a funny one. She made a right wing speech once to the NUT, but after that, for whatever reason, she became wholly committed to your common or garden globalist statism - and she still intervenes on behalf of 'woke' (her words not mine) positions even now.

    I don't know whether she believes in this credo - I don't really know whether any of world leaders who subscribe to it believe in it. I think they see it as expedient.

    Boris I agree with. I think bottom line he wanted an easy life, and having the EU to be appalled by was a good living. He wasn't a conviction Brexit supporter - or he'd never have written those two essays. But I do think once we were out he would have liked to make a decent fist of it. But easily knocked off course by Covid, fiancee etc. etc. etc.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    The bring back Blair campaign has reached the Spectator

    https://x.com/spectator/status/2060018263581487111
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,832
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    The ultimate debasement of a currency.
    https://x.com/washingtonpost/status/2059957879180824873

    That's his mugshot. How seriously do we take this story?
    He loves that mugshot though.
    He does. Thinks it shows the toughest handsomest son of a gun there's ever been.
    I have used my photo of the day, so you will need to click the link to see the albino buffalo spared slaughter in Bangladesh because it looks like Trump:

    https://bsky.app/profile/reuters.com/post/3mmty7egg4s22
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,878

    The bring back Blair campaign has reached the Spectator

    https://x.com/spectator/status/2060018263581487111

    So dead then, and so soon!?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,352
    Oh dear god - has prostrate cancer become another f*cking cultural war issue?

    First do no harm.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428
    Andy_JS said:

    kle4 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    This is very disturbing.

    "Police treated stab victim as a racist while he lay dying
    Officers handcuffed teenager as he bled to death after they fell for attacker’s ‘wicked’ lies" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/05/28/sorry-treating-dying-stab-victim-racist-hampshire-police/

    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2059979930620870827

    A Restore Britain Government will ban the Kirpan in public spaces.

    One rule for all.
    The British do love to ban things in general, tapping in to that is wise.
    He's right that the same laws and rules should apply to everyone, without exceptions. Anything else is discriminatory.
    That is trickier than it sounds in two ways.

    Firstly, a law which carves out exemptions is still the same single legal system for everyone. Rules + exceptions are a completely normal way of going about things.

    Basically being a Sikh carves out an exception about some knives, in the same way that having a shotgun licence carves out an exception for a shotgun.

    Secondly, if you apply laws without exceptions you end up with this, for example: Either you abolish all laws on gender equality in the workplace OR you compel Roman Catholics to have women priests.

Sign In or Register to comment.