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  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Maguire better at head ball, as he has a bonce "the size of a small country".
    Like an Aquaphibian from Stingray or Ant McPartlin.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    From the Burnham Labour pov any win is fine, it does the job, but the stronger scenario would be if they beat the combined hard right 'Re' total.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,672
    edited May 26
    Andy_JS said:

    According to Accuweather, the whole of June is going to be relatively cool. No really hot days like now.

    You cannot take seriously monthly forecasts - nowadays accuracy up to 120 hours is reasonable but beyond that it's all just spculation.

    It's likely the current extreme heat will moderate later in the week but to assume it'll be a wet Royal Ascot, no, just wrong.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,008
    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
    Many staff in the private sector work overtime and expectation is it is unpaid just to get the job done.

    This wheeze of Reforms reminds me of Blair’s ‘Fallacy of Popular Policies’. It would be a perfect fit for it.
    My experience (admittedly a bit dated now) is that it depends on the job level: professional/exec/managerial jobs - unpaid overtime; lower paid jobs - generally paid overtime, though many will go the extra mile unpaid on occasion if the culture and environment is good.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    edited May 26
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    "Why a brave choice"? A ridiculous choice i'd say if he really was party to what was said yesterday. Even fascist morons have daughters wives and girlfriends and what the plumber said/endorsed was pretty shocking
    Yes I think he meant in the Yes Minister 'courageous' sense.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,492

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Guehi by a mile. Dan Burn is the dubious selection.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,858
    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
    Many staff in the private sector work overtime and expectation is it is unpaid just to get the job done.

    This wheeze of Reforms reminds me of Blair’s ‘Fallacy of Popular Policies’. It would be a perfect fit for it.
    So do an awful lot of the despised public sector lanyard class. Because that's the way that work is for a lot of people these days. It's just that neither side of the Reform coalition knows that, because they don't experience that.

    Remeber the Johnny Cash song 'No charge'? It was played a lot on Radio 2 when it was Radio Snoozy. If overtime is really going to make a financial difference, it's going to be like that.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,945

    theProle said:

    EDF tells Telegraph there is an “emerging culture of non-payment” amongst energy customers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/05/26/energy-bills-to-rise-by-75-to-cover-debts/

    This is why the pb consensus has got it wrong in moaning about the Truss energy subsidies.

    If the bills were uncapped and rose to £4-5k averages*, millions would be unable to pay. Seeing that millions werent paying, another couple of million more would then refuse to pay. The suppliers can't cut them off, there isn't enough court time to deal with the cases even where people could pay. The suppliers still have to supply and pay for energy themselves and would go bankrupt creating chaos that would bring down a government faster than we already do.

    * Would have been the case during the initial Ukraine crisis, not the case today.
    The problem with the Truss energy subsidies (as noted on here many times) wasn't primarily that she doled out loads of government cash to pay the bills. It was that she did so in such a dumb way as to completely destroy the price signal.

    If she'd paid every household a lump sum equal to their previous year's electricity bill, in cash terms it would have resulted in a very similar distribution of cash, but households could have opted to reduce consumption and save money as well, thus reducing system demand.

    Alternatively, they could have given every household in the country £2k cash, then let the electricity price float free. That would benefit the poor more, most of them don't pay that much for electricity all year round, whilst the owners of heated outdoor swimming pools and the like would have been left to fend for themselves.

    Both of these options would have been vast improvements on the stupidity they actually deployed of straight up government price fixing.
    Unfortunately if they gave every household in the country £2k on cash, in several million households it would be spent on other things, and energy bills would still go unpaid and suppliers would go bust.

    An energy voucher might have worked.
    They could have rolled it out as a monthly credit paid directly to your energy supplier if they'd wanted. There were literally 101 better ways of solving the problem than what they actually did.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    France tried exempting overtime from tax, as Reform now propose. It didn't work: https://www.ipp.eu/en/news/exempting-overtime-from-taxation-an-assessment-of-the-french-experiment/

    What is there to stop people working 42 hours on a normal full time contract changing to working 42 hours based on a 32 hour week and 10 hours overtime? I don't really understand how it even can work.
    Indeed.

    To be fair, how many times have we seen policies, from all parties, where the obvious reaction is “won’t people just… “

    A symptom of announcement politics?
    Maybe that's why they do it - crowd-source the impact analysis.
    More that the announcement is the important bit. The implementation can be purely theoretical.
    The rationale is simple. Some of our voters work overtime. Here's a simple policy which sounds great, especially as they don't understand that we're actually grifting taxpayer cash for us not for them.

    Kirklees is the warning. £462m budget, a majority Reform group elected off the street literally too thick to understand the basics of what the council is and how it works, but still demanding the keys to the services and the budgets.

    Voters want things to change for the better. Grifters, chancers and idiots do not help the cause. Nor does I'm a gas fitter look at my brand new van and never used tools and half an hour old company and women are slags who shouldn't be allowed to drive but must vote for me unless they love muslims.

    Its all falling apart for Farage and his £5m.
    Some work overtime, more remember when they worked overtime.

    As for Farage, he's £5 million up and less likely to have the ballsache of being Prime Minister. The important bit of any grift is the exit strategy.
    Many staff in the private sector work overtime and expectation is it is unpaid just to get the job done.

    This wheeze of Reforms reminds me of Blair’s ‘Fallacy of Popular Policies’. It would be a perfect fit for it.
    My experience (admittedly a bit dated now) is that it depends on the job level: professional/exec/managerial jobs - unpaid overtime; lower paid jobs - generally paid overtime, though many will go the extra mile unpaid on occasion if the culture and environment is good.
    Yes, I think that certainly was the case and probably still is in some places.

    You’re right about culture and environment. In my last job when inflation was 11% all staff got 4%, the shop floor got 13%.

    After that I quite quit and never went the extra mile working over. I did what I was paid and when it was needed and that was it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    "Why a brave choice"? A ridiculous choice i'd say if he really was party to what was said yesterday. Even fascist morons have daughters wives and girlfriends and what the plumber said/endorsed was pretty shocking
    I think he meant in the Yes Minister 'courageous' sense.
    Exactly. From day 2 of the guy being made public we had the unveil of his deleted social profiles retweeting actual nazis. And since then a second deleted one where he appears to think like a Saudi man.

    Then we have the I'm a Gas Fitter me. In his brand new van unburdoned with any decals advertising his trade. Or his brand new business. And then the parade of his brand new never used tools in every shot.

    Something is *very very* wrong here but Reform seem to think their voters will literally not care.

    Its anti-politics. People get told they need to support wife-beaters who staple Bangladesh-made Chinese bought flags to lamp-posts to "defend women". The same women who apparently are "slags" who shouldn't be allowed to drive. Reform think all this is absolutely fine and people will vote for them anyway. The tirade against Restore seems to be the realisation that they are wrong and people won't.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @bloomberg.com‬

    Ferrari shares fell almost 8% in Milan after the Italian super-car maker unveiled the Luce, its first fully electric vehicle, marking a sharp setback for one of the industry’s most closely watched EV debuts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    From the Burnham Labour pov any win is fine, it does the job, but the stronger scenario would be if they beat the combined hard right 'Re' total.
    A win is a win. Be it a scrappy 1-0 win with a goal in the last minute or a 6-0 thrashing. No one will care after the event.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Scott_xP said:

    @bloomberg.com‬

    Ferrari shares fell almost 8% in Milan after the Italian super-car maker unveiled the Luce, its first fully electric vehicle, marking a sharp setback for one of the industry’s most closely watched EV debuts.

    As I said, ugly doesn't sell Ferraris.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,130
    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    "On average, at least one of every six sentences either flattered Mr. Trump, gave him credit or criticized his political opponents."
    https://x.com/RichardHanania/status/2059044048493842727
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2059208427679670314

    🚨 NEW: Reform UK's Makerfield candidate Robert Kenyon said in 2019 that he did not vote for Brexit

    "Anyone who thinks I love Trump, voted Brexit... is wrong... I woke up the day after Brexit shitting myself to what was voted for"

    Kenyon added that the EU's treatment of Britain had since made him “glad we voted out"
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,323
    edited May 26
    AnneJGP said:

    FT this morning...

    At age 16, the rate of education participation in the UK is similar to low-Neet countries, but rapidly falls behind by age 18. Just 66 per cent of British 18-year-olds are in education compared with almost 84 per cent across Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands [...]

    The issue is not because too few in the UK go to university. Rather, it is because the UK has a much weaker vocational education system compared with the low-Neet countries, hollowed out in part by Britain’s spending cuts to further education over the past two decades. And teachers in FE colleges are typically paid less than teachers in schools.

    It saddens me immensely that young children can be removed from school, supposedly for home schooling, and just left to fall through the cracks. Personally I only know of one family where this is happening, but it makes me wonder how many families like this there are throughout the UK.
    Bridgit Phillipson has your back! Her Children’s Wellbeing and Schools Act 2026 (a rag-bag of vaguely related good intentions) passed last month.
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2026/21/enacted

    HMG will track home-schooled children by giving each child a unique number, presumably in a shiny new central database supplied at enormous cost by whichever American tech billionaire had most recently spoken to the Blair Institute. These children will be monitored by local authority social work departments.

    Turns out there are up to 176,000 home-schooled children so it is indeed fortunate social workers are over-funded and under-worked.

    Home-schooled children to be tracked to target welfare ‘blind spots’
    New powers and IDs ensure councils can maintain lists to safeguard pupils who are not in school and monitor their health, education and social care records.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/home-schooled-children-to-be-tracked-to-target-welfare-blind-spots-nvgpqdvt7 (£££)
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    The other obvious point about Burnham winning: Reform lost. Why would Burnham need to throw away the forthcoming 3 years and hold an early election having just dealt the killer blow to Reform?|

    People wanted change and faced with a choice of Farage or Burnham chose Burnham.

    Farage is a world-class agitator who has somehow ended up being touted as the next PM - something I have little doubt he has no interest in. But he's been put up as the man to win. So when he loses the big test, that really is him on the slide.

    So no need for a Burnham cut and run. Get on with the job, and Reform will have melted away by the next election, to be led by Jenrick and outclassed by Real reform led by Tice and by Restore led by Lowe and Repel led by Goodwin.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,224

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2059208427679670314

    🚨 NEW: Reform UK's Makerfield candidate Robert Kenyon said in 2019 that he did not vote for Brexit

    "Anyone who thinks I love Trump, voted Brexit... is wrong... I woke up the day after Brexit shitting myself to what was voted for"

    Kenyon added that the EU's treatment of Britain had since made him “glad we voted out"

    One for the "Not all leavers are racist, but all racists voted Leave" crowd.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    "Why a brave choice"? A ridiculous choice i'd say if he really was party to what was said yesterday. Even fascist morons have daughters wives and girlfriends and what the plumber said/endorsed was pretty shocking
    I think he meant in the Yes Minister 'courageous' sense.
    Exactly. From day 2 of the guy being made public we had the unveil of his deleted social profiles retweeting actual nazis. And since then a second deleted one where he appears to think like a Saudi man.

    Then we have the I'm a Gas Fitter me. In his brand new van unburdoned with any decals advertising his trade. Or his brand new business. And then the parade of his brand new never used tools in every shot.

    Something is *very very* wrong here but Reform seem to think their voters will literally not care.

    Its anti-politics. People get told they need to support wife-beaters who staple Bangladesh-made Chinese bought flags to lamp-posts to "defend women". The same women who apparently are "slags" who shouldn't be allowed to drive. Reform think all this is absolutely fine and people will vote for them anyway. The tirade against Restore seems to be the realisation that they are wrong and people won't.
    Although if they decline due to the rise of a yet more extreme option that wouldn't be my ideal way for it to happen. It's going to be a very interesting couple of years. I don't think they will win a general election but the possibility of replacing the Cons as the biggest party of the right looks eminently doable.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    That is the interesting bit. Vance now has little to lose from a 25th amendment attempt. Not likely to get the rest of the Cabinet to agree, but could save his reputation in the longer term.
    It will never happen, we should stop pretending it is a viable prediction.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    Is it more times than the SNP are finished?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    "Why a brave choice"? A ridiculous choice i'd say if he really was party to what was said yesterday. Even fascist morons have daughters wives and girlfriends and what the plumber said/endorsed was pretty shocking
    I think he meant in the Yes Minister 'courageous' sense.
    Exactly. From day 2 of the guy being made public we had the unveil of his deleted social profiles retweeting actual nazis. And since then a second deleted one where he appears to think like a Saudi man.

    Then we have the I'm a Gas Fitter me. In his brand new van unburdoned with any decals advertising his trade. Or his brand new business. And then the parade of his brand new never used tools in every shot.

    Something is *very very* wrong here but Reform seem to think their voters will literally not care.

    Its anti-politics. People get told they need to support wife-beaters who staple Bangladesh-made Chinese bought flags to lamp-posts to "defend women". The same women who apparently are "slags" who shouldn't be allowed to drive. Reform think all this is absolutely fine and people will vote for them anyway. The tirade against Restore seems to be the realisation that they are wrong and people won't.
    Although if they decline due to the rise of a yet more extreme option that wouldn't be my ideal way for it to happen. It's going to be a very interesting couple of years. I don't think they will win a general election but the possibility of replacing the Cons as the biggest party of the right looks eminently doable.
    The turning point was Badenoch binning culture wars and turning on the Reform defectors as being utter wazzocks. She has been on point ever since chasing down Starmer on policy and not endlessly talking bollocks to try and outflank Farage as she had done previously.

    Reform are already on the slide - have been all year - and will break apart into further internecine battles. Already fractured into three there will be more fractures. And so we get to the denouement we always get with crankies - hurling abuse at each other, the biggest traitors of them all for splitting the movement.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,475

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    FPT

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "On one level it’s not exactly surprising. The idea that large parts of the civil service would treat a Farage government with horror and seek to frustrate it is what many of Reform UK’s supporters have long suspected. But the sheer brazenness with which the Blob has now declared its hand is shocking and appalling in equal measure.

    Civil servants’ largest trade union, PCS, has been debating a motion to ‘’ counter a hostile Reform government with ‘sustained industrial action’. If the motion is approved, the union’s ruling NEC would draw up a resistance strategy by the end of the year. In other words, they are considering going on strike if Farage wins the next election."

    https://spectator.com/article/the-blob-is-already-getting-ready-to-take-down-reform/

    If they do this, it's a gift to Farage.

    It will confirms what most of his supporters have long suspected, that the civil service is institutionally soft left, and has worked to frustrate that aims of right leaning governments for many years.

    The massive opportunity it gives him is that it provides cover to bring forward a very short bill allowing the government to sack striking employees, and then sack them all (CF Regan and the air traffic controllers).

    They will need sacking as anyone contemplating this sort of action is by very definition not suitable to be an impartial civil servant. It will also rid out almost all his civil service opponents in one go, which will make getting the remaining civil service to do his bidding much easier. And as a final bonus, the civil service needs halving in size anyway, and this will save the government a fortune in redundancy payments.

    It might also have a salutory effect to "pour encourager les autres" with regard to any other statutory bodies or the like who fancy trying to put a spanner in his works.
    Well that's straight up nonsense.
    Are you saying civil servants have no right to take industrial action in the face of their employer seeking mass redundancies ?

    While you might be right that such action turns out to be counterproductive, I don't see how it can fairly be described as a breach of impartiality.

    But in this case it’s strike action simply because they don’t like the govt that has been elected.

    They don’t even know what the policy platform is at the moment.
    It's a straight reaction to a declared policy; those condemning the motion fully acknowledge that Reform plan to slash civil service numbers.
    It's pretty silly to argue that no one knows about the policy just because there isn't a manifesto yet.

    https://news.sky.com/story/civil-service-union-votes-to-double-strike-fund-to-prepare-for-reform-government-13546558
    ..It (the motion) refers to the Reform leader's plans to cut 70,000 civil service jobs, saying that like Donald Trump, who has slashed thousands of federal jobs, "one of the first acts of a Farage Government is likely to be an attack on civil servants and their unions"..

    ..The union has rejected accusations from Reform UK that this breaches civil service impartiality, saying this is about protecting members against threats to jobs, pay, pensions, and terms and conditions...


    You can't fairly argue that a union preparing to fight redundancies for its members is breaching impartiality.

    The test of that would come when civil servants are ordered to make the cuts.
    Yes, so a legitimate industrial dispute.

    Worth noting that these civil servants are not the "Whitehall Mandarins" who are in the FDA. They are the rank and file in agencies across the land, indeed particularly in economically deprived regions as a long standing government policy.



    Also worth noting the other quote in the Sky report:
    ..Dave Penman, who heads the FDA Union that also represents civil servants, told Sky News that any government with an electoral mandate can make changes to the size of the civil service and staff "must serve the government of the day or leave - it's simple"....

    In other words, the Spectator story about "the blob" resistance is sheer bollocks.
    I do not think "The Blob" exists other than as an excuse used by politicians to cover their own incompetence and inability.

    I think it fair to assume that Robert Kenyon will be a fairly typical example in terms of intellect and ability for the 350 odd MPs forming a Reform government. Knuckle dragging stupidity seasoned with racism and misogyny will be the rule rather than the exception.

    It can't happen here? Just look across the pond to show that it can.
    Over the pond is not knuckle dragging stupidity, to make the changes Trump has done requires a number of intelligent people thinking about how they achieve those aims.
    Or...a bunch of very rich malevolent ones.
    Trump's changes have always been about self-enrichment, self-protection, and revenge.

    He did 3711 market trades in 2026 Q1 alone.

    One thing I wonder is whether as such these are subject to New York State law (I don't know), where they have a strong framework.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    First, and briefly, as someone who worked in local Government for a time, you can't actively oppose a policy directive from the ruling administration but it doesn't work like that.

    If the ruling group puts forward a policy, it's not your job to oppose it but it is your job to point out the "unintended consequences" of the policy which has often not been thought to a logical conclusion. The argument in a paper or report if you do A, it will lead to B and C is not discrediting the policy per se but pointing out the implications in other areas.

    If the ruling group decides it wants to pursue the policy even in the light of these implications, then it's the job of Officers to see the policy implemented but Members can't then argue they weren't told or didn't know if they pursued A, B or C would happen.

    It doesn't work like that either - usually, when the unintended consequences are spelt out, the policy is modified.

    The one thing as an Officer you must never do is criticise the ruling group and its policy publicly - that's a hanging offence. Point out the imperfections privately, either in meeting or by report or paper. Very often, there are legal considerations which undermine some of the policy thinking and make it difficult if not impossible to implement.

    On to other things and you can tell summer is coming when I start sneezing (not yet), my Derby hope is still rounding Tattenham Corner as the winner crosses the line (to come) and we start getting reports of large numbers of migrants crossing the Channel on small boats. Oddly enough, for what I thought would have been perfect conditions to make a Channel crossing, I've seen no mention of numbers. I'd have thought there would easily have been 1,000 crossing yesterday or, whisper it quietly, perhaps the Starmer Government'spolicy is working.

    On all the bodies I was involved with there was No Overall Control, in theory. In practice the officers were in control. When the officers lost control, as Yorkshire Dales 1998 to 2003 it was a different world
    My experience was very different - I worked in authorities where there was a clear majority.

    I imagine in an NOC environment it can be very different though NOC shouldn't mean anarchy - it simply means no one party has a majority. That doesn't stop an administration existing whether a minority or a coalition and it certainly shouldn't mean the Officers run the show.

    I did see instances of Officers wanting to be Members and set the strategic political direction and Members wanting to be Officers and getting involved in the minutiae of implementation and that's not how it should be. A clear Member-Officer protocol should exist defining everyone's rolesand responsibilties. Problems start when Officers and Members blur the lines, set up informal groups and try to take decisions outside the usual channels.
    Officers dislike lack of direction. If members won't cooperate in an NOC to provide direction then it puts an unfair burden on officers to do so. Which some might enjoy, but shouldn't.

    As you say it's about being clear about roles on both sides. NOC can and does work fine most of the time, but where the area is not used to it it can take time for everyone to figure out their role - eg opposition refusing to engage, or administrations refusing to take decisions.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917
    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?
    I've occasionally wondered that. Not unknown in UK, of course.
    Yesterday, Thomas Massie filed to run for his Kentucky House seat in the midterms after losing his primary to Trump backed Gallrein. It sets a precedent.
    It depends on the state - but many have "sore loser" rules which prevent primary losers running.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sore_loser_law

    But even in those circumstances, you can still run a write in campaign...

    Alaskan voters spell Murkowski W-I-N-N-E-R
    https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/alaskan-voters-spell-murkowski-w-i-n-n-e-r/
    I am surprised that such laws are constitutional, but apparently they are accepted as such.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,624
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bloomberg.com‬

    Ferrari shares fell almost 8% in Milan after the Italian super-car maker unveiled the Luce, its first fully electric vehicle, marking a sharp setback for one of the industry’s most closely watched EV debuts.

    As I said, ugly doesn't sell Ferraris.
    'Ugly' is completely subjective. What is really hard for manufacturers is 'different'. However, Ferrari are a very well managed company who don't let their engineers run riot (eg Lamborghini with the ridiculous 10,000rpm redline on the Temerario that cost a fortune to achieve and won't sell one more car) so if anybody can make this work, they can.

    I quite like it, but I'm not the market for it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    Is it more times than the SNP are finished?
    There is a lot of wishcasting about both predictions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790
    edited May 26
    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has been sustained quite some time now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bloomberg.com‬

    Ferrari shares fell almost 8% in Milan after the Italian super-car maker unveiled the Luce, its first fully electric vehicle, marking a sharp setback for one of the industry’s most closely watched EV debuts.

    As I said, ugly doesn't sell Ferraris.
    'Ugly' is completely subjective...

    I quite like it, but I'm not the market for it.
    It is subjective, but I can't see this being much in keeping with the Ferrari aesthetic, FWIW.

    Quite nice interior though.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790

    Nigelb said:

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    HYUFD said:

    Yet Vance was in Iowa only this month.

    "What Our Reporter Saw in Iowa During Vance’s Splashy, 2028-Coded Trip - The New York Times" https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/08/us/politics/jd-vance-iowa-2028.html

    Given he leads all Republican primary polls hard not to see him running. As stated in the header not impossible he could have replaced Trump as president by then anyway

    Which might suggest a bitter battle between one of Trump's 'children' and Vance and/or Rubio in the spring of 2028. Perhaps even leading to two candidates in October of that year. Plus of course a very satisfied Democrat!

    And Good Morning everyone. Still blue skies and a cooling, gentle breeze here, I'm pleased to report.
    I wonder if any of the primaried Republican Senators (Cassidy in Louisiana, Cornyn in Texas) will be tempted to run as "Real Republicans" and split the GOP vote?
    I've occasionally wondered that. Not unknown in UK, of course.
    Yesterday, Thomas Massie filed to run for his Kentucky House seat in the midterms after losing his primary to Trump backed Gallrein. It sets a precedent.
    It depends on the state - but many have "sore loser" rules which prevent primary losers running.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sore_loser_law

    But even in those circumstances, you can still run a write in campaign...

    Alaskan voters spell Murkowski W-I-N-N-E-R
    https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/alaskan-voters-spell-murkowski-w-i-n-n-e-r/
    I am surprised that such laws are constitutional, but apparently they are accepted as such.
    Yes, feels very restrictive.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has bern sustained quite some time now.
    The thing is, it is a trend that exists in almost all Western democracies now, for insurgent right wing parties to replace the traditional right,.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Guehi by a mile. Dan Burn is the dubious selection.
    Thanks. I know nothing of football.

    In rowing, at the top level, they monitor performance to an insane degree. Every stroke. If you are a fraction of a percent off the pace, you’re out the boat.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,790

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    Is it more times than the SNP are finished?
    So long as Indy support remains so high they will never be finished as a top force. Really 2024 being so punishing was FPTP working it's magic more than anything else.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,925
    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has bern sustained quite some time now.
    The thing is, it is a trend that exists in almost all Western democracies now, for insurgent right wing parties to replace the traditional right,.
    Bit like the trend for norms then laws of the late Republic being whittled away in Rome...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    Taz said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Does anyone think the SNP could lose both by-elections in Scotland on 18th June?

    Tories certainly could win Aberdeen South.
    I think Labour could win Arbroath and Broughty Ferry even as they might possibly lose Makerfield. Their share will be down but the SNP share might go down more and their majority is only 1.9%.
    Burnham has been nailed on for Makerfield since the incumbent announced his resignation. I called it then, I'm sticking with it, and the longer this goes on the clearer it is.

    There is a civil war raging in the hard right. And with the Reform candidate increasingly exposed as an brave choice it only pushes Burnham's majority up.

    If Farage can't win this - a constituency his lot swept in the locals - then what's the point in him? This is where Restore are really stepping up, and good for them.

    Reform were clearly palatable for a chunk of voters, but open fascists won't be.
    From the Burnham Labour pov any win is fine, it does the job, but the stronger scenario would be if they beat the combined hard right 'Re' total.
    A win is a win. Be it a scrappy 1-0 win with a goal in the last minute or a 6-0 thrashing. No one will care after the event.
    Definitely the main thing here, yes. The difference between winning by a whisker after multiple recounts and losing by same is immeasurably greater (although smaller in votes) than the difference between a big win and a close one. Still, the big win would serve to amplify. Same applies to a (yes I think I can type it if I psyche up) a Refor ... no, sorry, I can't.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,624
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bloomberg.com‬

    Ferrari shares fell almost 8% in Milan after the Italian super-car maker unveiled the Luce, its first fully electric vehicle, marking a sharp setback for one of the industry’s most closely watched EV debuts.

    As I said, ugly doesn't sell Ferraris.
    'Ugly' is completely subjective...

    I quite like it, but I'm not the market for it.
    It is subjective, but I can't see this being much in keeping with the Ferrari aesthetic, FWIW.

    The design language has evolved recently with the 849 adopting the Cyberpunk 2077 look. The Luce fits with that theme.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Guehi by a mile. Dan Burn is the dubious selection.
    Thanks. I know nothing of football.

    In rowing, at the top level, they monitor performance to an insane degree. Every stroke. If you are a fraction of a percent off the pace, you’re out the boat.
    Not mid race, I hope?
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,130

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Is it because there's a big overlap between wanting indy and holding leftish political views?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,466

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has bern sustained quite some time now.
    The thing is, it is a trend that exists in almost all Western democracies now, for insurgent right wing parties to replace the traditional right,.
    Bit like the trend for norms then laws of the late Republic being whittled away in Rome...
    Cicero - the last defender of the Roman Republic. It's not an accident I use the name.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,447

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2059208427679670314

    🚨 NEW: Reform UK's Makerfield candidate Robert Kenyon said in 2019 that he did not vote for Brexit

    "Anyone who thinks I love Trump, voted Brexit... is wrong... I woke up the day after Brexit shitting myself to what was voted for"

    Kenyon added that the EU's treatment of Britain had since made him “glad we voted out"

    So it's fair to say that he does not wish to become acquainted with any part of Ursula von der Leyen's anatomy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26
    Interesting useless fact:

    After watching the 1983 film War Games, Ronald Reagan ordered a full national security review based on fears of whether what happened in the film could be possible in real life. (The answer was yes).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WarGames#Influence
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428
    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    I have no idea how true this is; I don't quantify. However what is the case is that a reasoned argument can be made for them doing less well than they did, for them having only a slim chance of forming a government, and even slimmer chance of a majority, that their membership and candidates are an embarrassment, that Farage is a chancer and grifter (£5 million anyone?), that their policies are a mishmash of contradictions and that they are about to lose a 'must win' by election; not least because their candidate is a disgusting and shameful disgrace and they are fighting like rats in a sack with other far right splinters.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Is it because there's a big overlap between wanting indy and holding leftish political views?
    Partly, and Alba were certainly the landing place for many of the angry old man indy support (I'm a quite pissed off old man so was largely immune). Of course Salmond was considered to be on the left of the SNP for a while, but people change.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,447

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
    For example, if a member of the Conservative and Unionist Party voted for a candidate standing for a separatist party, such as Plaid Cymru?

    Not that this would ever happen, of course.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,925
    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has bern sustained quite some time now.
    The thing is, it is a trend that exists in almost all Western democracies now, for insurgent right wing parties to replace the traditional right,.
    Bit like the trend for norms then laws of the late Republic being whittled away in Rome...
    Cicero - the last defender of the Roman Republic. It's not an accident I use the name.
    I used to play a MUD with a guy called Cicero irl.

    Anyway, I'm melting, so I'm off. Stay cool, kids.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,008

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2059208427679670314

    🚨 NEW: Reform UK's Makerfield candidate Robert Kenyon said in 2019 that he did not vote for Brexit

    "Anyone who thinks I love Trump, voted Brexit... is wrong... I woke up the day after Brexit shitting myself to what was voted for"

    Kenyon added that the EU's treatment of Britain had since made him “glad we voted out"

    So it's fair to say that he does not wish to become acquainted with any part of Ursula von der Leyen's anatomy.
    Er... ???
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748
    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has bern sustained quite some time now.
    The thing is, it is a trend that exists in almost all Western democracies now, for insurgent right wing parties to replace the traditional right,.
    Bit like the trend for norms then laws of the late Republic being whittled away in Rome...
    Cicero - the last defender of the Roman Republic. It's not an accident I use the name.
    I thought he was Russel Crowe's man-servant in Gladiator!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 23,124

    Roger said:

    Though most of the arab countries currently involved in wars of Trump's making cannot be described as democracies the one thing their rulers take notice of is what they call 'The Arab Street'.

    Trump decided as part of his latest peace plan to try to get Israrel's neighbours to sign a friendship accord with them! None of the commentators in the US nor the UK seem very attuned to what's going on. They see it a bit like our ex-pat in Dubai. That is to say blindfolded.

    Anyway amidst the fog this guy is about as accurate as it gets and he reckons the Trump plan is going nowhere.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqWs6JjRVB8

    If Trump wants his Middle East peace plan to work he needs to ask Israel very politely to stop flattening Lebanon. Otherwise it is trapped in the doom loop of extremists on either side provoking each other to retaliate and escalate.
    Indeed and it isn't helped by Lebanon being uniqely popular in the region by nearly all the countries that surround it. Almost everyone in the region will tell you the same
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,008
    edited May 26
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bloomberg.com‬

    Ferrari shares fell almost 8% in Milan after the Italian super-car maker unveiled the Luce, its first fully electric vehicle, marking a sharp setback for one of the industry’s most closely watched EV debuts.

    As I said, ugly doesn't sell Ferraris.
    'Ugly' is completely subjective...

    I quite like it, but I'm not the market for it.
    It is subjective, but I can't see this being much in keeping with the Ferrari aesthetic, FWIW.

    The design language has evolved recently with the 849 adopting the Cyberpunk 2077 look. The Luce fits with that theme.
    "The design language has evolved recently..." ?!

    FFS Dura what has happened to you?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 59,748
    stodge said:

    Andy_JS said:

    According to Accuweather, the whole of June is going to be relatively cool. No really hot days like now.

    You cannot take seriously monthly forecasts - nowadays accuracy up to 120 hours is reasonable but beyond that it's all just spculation.

    It's likely the current extreme heat will moderate later in the week but to assume it'll be a wet Royal Ascot, no, just wrong.
    The Heat Is On!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZD8HKVKneI
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,498
    kinabalu said:

    a

    Crikey, from somebody who used to frequent GB News a lot.


    Which one is actually better at kick ball?
    Guehi by a mile. Dan Burn is the dubious selection.
    Thanks. I know nothing of football.

    In rowing, at the top level, they monitor performance to an insane degree. Every stroke. If you are a fraction of a percent off the pace, you’re out the boat.
    Not mid race, I hope?
    Ha.

    People are still arguing about the case where the stroke (guy at the back) broke his blade in a race. So he jumped. And they got a 3rd place, I think.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035
    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    I have no idea how true this is; I don't quantify. However what is the case is that a reasoned argument can be made for them doing less well than they did, for them having only a slim chance of forming a government, and even slimmer chance of a majority, that their membership and candidates are an embarrassment, that Farage is a chancer and grifter (£5 million anyone?), that their policies are a mishmash of contradictions and that they are about to lose a 'must win' by election; not least because their candidate is a disgusting and shameful disgrace and they are fighting like rats in a sack with other far right splinters.

    They have just gained 1,451 seats in the last set of local elections, they have led the polls for over a year, their membership and candidates plainly do not bother a very substantial part of the electorate, and the only piece of hard evidence we have for the by-election implies a very close contest.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
    In the LibDems, you can be expelled for voting against the party's candidate. If the party isn't standing, there's no problem
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,917

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
    In the LibDems, you can be expelled for voting against the party's candidate. If the party isn't standing, there's no problem
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Is it because there's a big overlap between wanting indy and holding leftish political views?
    Partly, and Alba were certainly the landing place for many of the angry old man indy support (I'm a quite pissed off old man so was largely immune). Of course Salmond was considered to be on the left of the SNP for a while, but people change.
    I also got a sense the split was as much personal as political. Yes, Alex Salmond (rip) was less 'woke' than Nicola Sturgeon and for lower taxes on business etc, and his 'how to achieve indy' rhetoric was more direct and combative, but the actions of the two of them post fallout seemed to be driven largely by an intense and mutual dislike. Factors such as mentor eclipsed by protegee, all the difficult emotions that can flow from that. I'd be up for a documentary on it.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
    Not an issue in the ScotLibDems...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,331

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
    In the LibDems, you can be expelled for voting against the party's candidate. If the party isn't standing, there's no problem
    On paper? Perhaps. In practice? No.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,411

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Well, when Alex Salmond, leader of the party was forced to vote for the SNP because his own party wasn't standing a candidate in the seat, it's not a good look!

    Genuine question - I know you can be expelled for admitting you voted for another party in Labour (Alaister Campbell) - is the same true of other parties? Is an exception allowed if you can't vote for your party because of no candidate?
    For example, if a member of the Conservative and Unionist Party voted for a candidate standing for a separatist party, such as Plaid Cymru?

    Not that this would ever happen, of course.
    He'll never be allowed to forget that!

    Many years ago, when a local officer of the old Liberal Party I gave 'comfort and aid' to the Labour candidate in a seat which we weren't fighting. Wouldn't really call him a friend, but he was a 'close acquaintance'. Delivered some leaflets, that sort of thing.
    The local Press got hold of it, a few eyebrows were raised locally but that was about it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,511
    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428
    Sean_F said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    I have no idea how true this is; I don't quantify. However what is the case is that a reasoned argument can be made for them doing less well than they did, for them having only a slim chance of forming a government, and even slimmer chance of a majority, that their membership and candidates are an embarrassment, that Farage is a chancer and grifter (£5 million anyone?), that their policies are a mishmash of contradictions and that they are about to lose a 'must win' by election; not least because their candidate is a disgusting and shameful disgrace and they are fighting like rats in a sack with other far right splinters.

    They have just gained 1,451 seats in the last set of local elections, they have led the polls for over a year, their membership and candidates plainly do not bother a very substantial part of the electorate, and the only piece of hard evidence we have for the by-election implies a very close contest.
    All good points. But there is a devilish detail about the direction of travel. Farage has his 25-30% of the voters who warm to him. But in the current fragmented party state the number of people who, when push comes to shove, certainly oppose Reform and would do what it takes to make sure he is not PM is the more important figure. Indications are that is over half the voting population.

    How that plays out in a GE? We are too far off. But from late 2027 onwards there will be increasingly fevered discussion about the meaning of tactical voting, and how to vote for an anti-Reform outcome.

    Reform have only one route to power: getting close to 325 seats. There is a multiplicity of routes to preventing this. We might even see some old leftish lags talking up the merits of the Tories in seats where only they or Reform can win.

    Finally, Burnham as PM, which I think will happen, must be a better electoral prospect than Starmer.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26
    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    People love talking about the fact that their share of the vote in the polls has dipped a bit, but most of that is because Restore have gone from nothing to 3% or 4%.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,351
    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    9m
    Just to add to the chaos I'm now being told by multiple sources from different parties that canvass returns for Makerfield show Restore significantly outperforming the 7% revealed in the Times poll. I suspect that's what's underpinning the current Reform meltdown.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    I think I have lost count of the number of times we have been assured on this site, that everything is going tits up for Reform.

    It isn't and it might not. The current position might dip, but has bern sustained quite some time now.
    The thing is, it is a trend that exists in almost all Western democracies now, for insurgent right wing parties to replace the traditional right,.
    Bit like the trend for norms then laws of the late Republic being whittled away in Rome...
    Cicero - the last defender of the Roman Republic. It's not an accident I use the name.
    I used to play a MUD with a guy called Cicero irl.

    Anyway, I'm melting, so I'm off. Stay cool, kids.
    I’ve been gardening, primarily weeding, digging the weeds out of the patio and drive, and trimming an overgrowing bush.

    It was more exhausting than a 25 mile cycle ride to the in-laws.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    https://x.com/FRElects/status/2059146878483075380

    Poll for the second round of the presidential election :

    J. Bardella (RN) : 52% ✅
    É. Philippe (HOR) : 48%
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    9m
    Just to add to the chaos I'm now being told by multiple sources from different parties that canvass returns for Makerfield show Restore significantly outperforming the 7% revealed in the Times poll. I suspect that's what's underpinning the current Reform meltdown.

    Maybe if the Greens can get a bit of momentum and split the left vote, Restore could end up winning.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 66,562
    It's a shame Reclaim can't play in Makerfield as well, with Laurence Fox performing his stuff.

    Then, we'd have the three Rs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148

    It's a shame Reclaim can't play in Makerfield as well, with Laurence Fox performing his stuff.

    Then, we'd have the three Rs.

    Funny if Labour come third in Makerfield behind both Reform and Restore.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 41,035

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    9m
    Just to add to the chaos I'm now being told by multiple sources from different parties that canvass returns for Makerfield show Restore significantly outperforming the 7% revealed in the Times poll. I suspect that's what's underpinning the current Reform meltdown.

    it is Dan Hodges.

    The current burst of enthusiasm for Rupert Lowe and Restore amongst "progressives" resembles the way that Tucker Carlson is currently being lionised. The fact that the latter is anti-Israel makes him one of the good guys, in spite of being a believer in the Great Replacement Theory, a white nationalist, and a supporter of Vladimir Putin.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,834
    The Manchester Evening News report posted last night suggests that it's still a two-horse race between Reform and Labour:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwTjPhZAeIU
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934

    It's a shame Reclaim can't play in Makerfield as well, with Laurence Fox performing his stuff.

    Then, we'd have the three Rs.

    If they could agree a joint candidate to represent them would that be three R soles?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    A pitched and bloody battle over who will deport the most people. Call me a reactionary but I think I prefer the old days when it would be about tax cuts.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
    Exactly. Just strikes me as performative.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @paulhutcheon

    Monday: Former SNP chief executive Peter Murrell jailed after stealing indyref2 donations.

    Tuesday: SNP Government launches fresh push for indyref2.

    I meant to ask last night what had happened to the other Independence party, Alba, but I see they died a death when Alex Salmond passed. Got dissolved in March this year after declaring they wouldn't be standing candidates at elections......(!)

    Alba might have been able to make hay with this, but they're now long gone.
    Alba never really started, even I was mildly surprised at their total ineffectuality. Not even a councillor elected during their lifetime.
    Is it because there's a big overlap between wanting indy and holding leftish political views?
    Partly, and Alba were certainly the landing place for many of the angry old man indy support (I'm a quite pissed off old man so was largely immune). Of course Salmond was considered to be on the left of the SNP for a while, but people change.
    I also got a sense the split was as much personal as political. Yes, Alex Salmond (rip) was less 'woke' than Nicola Sturgeon and for lower taxes on business etc, and his 'how to achieve indy' rhetoric was more direct and combative, but the actions of the two of them post fallout seemed to be driven largely by an intense and mutual dislike. Factors such as mentor eclipsed by protegee, all the difficult emotions that can flow from that. I'd be up for a documentary on it.
    Dfeinitely lots of the personal in it. I think the huge factor for Salmond was his protégé Sturgeon not making the sexual shenanigans accusations go away, and he pretty much dedicated the remainder of his life in getting revenge for that. Difficult to remember now in our Trumpian times but the MeToo and BLM movements were big and I dare say the former influenced Sturgeon's pov at the time.

    There was a 2 part BBC documentary on it, Salmond and Sturgeon: A Troubled Union, unfortunately not available on iplayer any more. From memory it tended to the banal and melodramatic (qualities never far from BBC Scotland's output) but it certainly gave an overview of salient facts.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0022yff
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,755
    edited May 26
    The Daily Mail article referred to in the latest article by our noble purveyor of fine articles from many sources (ONPOFAFMS) is below

    https://www.dailymail.com/tvshowbiz/article-15847665/Doctor-Christmas-special-AXED-actor-poisoned-chalice.html
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
    Exactly. Just strikes me as performative.
    Why not take them at their word? They plan to scrap ILR and then deport a big section of the people who had it. Seems very much in plain sight to me.

    https://www.reformparty.uk/policies#policies-section
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,671
    Sean_F said:

    ((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    9m
    Just to add to the chaos I'm now being told by multiple sources from different parties that canvass returns for Makerfield show Restore significantly outperforming the 7% revealed in the Times poll. I suspect that's what's underpinning the current Reform meltdown.

    it is Dan Hodges.

    The current burst of enthusiasm for Rupert Lowe and Restore amongst "progressives" resembles the way that Tucker Carlson is currently being lionised. The fact that the latter is anti-Israel makes him one of the good guys, in spite of being a believer in the Great Replacement Theory, a white nationalist, and a supporter of Vladimir Putin.
    Not me guv. You will not find a single positive mention of Restore in my body of work. Not even of the 'lol look at the ghastlies fighting in a sack' variety.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
    Exactly. Just strikes me as performative.
    Why not take them at their word? They plan to scrap ILR and then deport a big section of the people who had it. Seems very much in plain sight to me.

    https://www.reformparty.uk/policies#policies-section
    The one issue I’d really have with that is rescinding existing awards.
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080
    This is an odd story. From Robert Fripp.

    ‘ Robert Fripp still confused about why hospital “shaved my balls” after heart attack

    "The man shaving my balls didn’t tell me," he said, while sharing an update on his health’


    https://x.com/nme/status/2058855199750619170?s=61
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,887

    It's a shame Reclaim can't play in Makerfield as well, with Laurence Fox performing his stuff.

    Then, we'd have the three Rs.

    Removing the darkies, revanchism against woke and rimming.
    A winning combo!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,755
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    The NYT ran a story over the weekend analysing the sycophancy levels of Trump's administration in their public statements.

    Rubio came out top, by some distance. Vance was rock bottom - though topped the ratings for attacks on political opponents. He is a singularly unappealing character even to his own side.

    Unless Trump karks it, or is 25th-ed aside, Vance will never be nominee or president.

    That is the interesting bit. Vance now has little to lose from a 25th amendment attempt. Not likely to get the rest of the Cabinet to agree, but could save his reputation in the longer term.
    It will never happen, we should stop pretending it is a viable prediction.
    See also "if Sinn Fein take their seats"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,934
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
    Exactly. Just strikes me as performative.
    Why not take them at their word? They plan to scrap ILR and then deport a big section of the people who had it. Seems very much in plain sight to me.

    https://www.reformparty.uk/policies#policies-section
    The one issue I’d really have with that is rescinding existing awards.
    That is pretty much the dividing line between the establishment parties and Reform/Restore.

    The establishment parties will/are reducing further immigration and tightening future restrictions.
    Reform and Restore are reneging on current status and deporting

    No-one (maybe Greens?) is arguing for a continuation of the Boris wave.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26
    Taz said:

    This is an odd story. From Robert Fripp.

    ‘ Robert Fripp still confused about why hospital “shaved my balls” after heart attack

    "The man shaving my balls didn’t tell me," he said, while sharing an update on his health’


    https://x.com/nme/status/2058855199750619170?s=61

    That is very strange. Hope he gets to the bottom of it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,428

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
    Exactly. Just strikes me as performative.
    Why not take them at their word? They plan to scrap ILR and then deport a big section of the people who had it. Seems very much in plain sight to me.

    https://www.reformparty.uk/policies#policies-section
    Reform policy says this:

    Reform will abolish ILR and rescind existing awards.


    As to abolishing future ILR, there is no problem. It's the other bit. There are two difficulties at least.

    Firstly the policy has no quantifier. The number rescinded might be one, some or all ILR awards. So the policy is meaningless. (It's a common way popular headlines and news stories work.)

    Let us assume it is some. Every rescinding and every deportation will require individually a process under the authority of government, and the opportunity of challenge in the courts under the rule of law. It would also require a willing receiving country. Which will not be a problem in respect of German bankers and French lawyers, or even my Sri Lankan eye specialist, but may be trickier for Somalis, Algerians, Afghans and a few others.

    So I think we should wait and see. Except we won't because this shower of chancers will never form a government.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,371
    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    This is an odd story. From Robert Fripp.

    ‘ Robert Fripp still confused about why hospital “shaved my balls” after heart attack

    "The man shaving my balls didn’t tell me," he said, while sharing an update on his health’


    https://x.com/nme/status/2058855199750619170?s=61

    That is very strange. Hope he gets to the bottom of it.
    Or cracks it, even.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26

    It's a shame Reclaim can't play in Makerfield as well, with Laurence Fox performing his stuff.

    Then, we'd have the three Rs.

    Not forgetting his mate Calvin Robinson.

    Denominations he's been in recently:

    "Church of England (until 2022)
    Free Church of England (2022–2023)
    Nordic Catholic Church (2023–2024)
    Anglican Catholic Church (2024–2025)
    Reformed Episcopal Church in the ACNA (5–14 May 2025)
    English Catholic Church (since 2025)"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Robinson
  • TazTaz Posts: 28,080

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Wow!

    Reform having a bit of a meltdown right now.

    @BasilTheGreat

    May 24
    Robert Jenrick admits Reform UK will NOT deport foreign nationals living in social housing

    Trevor Phillips showed him Restore Britain's deportation plans and was clear "YOU DON'T AGREE WITH RESTORE'S POLICIES"

    @ZiaYusufUK
    Robert’s answer is not Reform policy.

    As the person responsible for our deportation plan I want ensure people know where we stand:

    If a foreign national lives in social housing at taxpayer expense, they automatically fail our economic test and will be deported.

    Ireland better start building some more houses.
    Presumably this would not apply to people with ILR.
    Then its not really much of a change. Those seeking asylum (not granted), student visas, work visas, undocumented usually aren't eligible currently.
    Exactly. Just strikes me as performative.
    Why not take them at their word? They plan to scrap ILR and then deport a big section of the people who had it. Seems very much in plain sight to me.

    https://www.reformparty.uk/policies#policies-section
    The one issue I’d really have with that is rescinding existing awards.
    That is pretty much the dividing line between the establishment parties and Reform/Restore.

    The establishment parties will/are reducing further immigration and tightening future restrictions.
    Reform and Restore are reneging on current status and deporting

    No-one (maybe Greens?) is arguing for a continuation of the Boris wave.
    It’s stupid stuff like this that puts me off Reform. I could conceivably vote for them but won’t.

    I just don’t like the idea of making the change retrospective. Extending ILR going forward is fine.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,168
    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    This is an odd story. From Robert Fripp.

    ‘ Robert Fripp still confused about why hospital “shaved my balls” after heart attack

    "The man shaving my balls didn’t tell me," he said, while sharing an update on his health’


    https://x.com/nme/status/2058855199750619170?s=61

    That is very strange. Hope he gets to the bottom of it.
    The nuts and bolts of the tale will be interesting. Hopefully no-one gets the sack as a result.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589

    It's a shame Reclaim can't play in Makerfield as well, with Laurence Fox performing his stuff.

    Then, we'd have the three Rs.

    Risible, Ridiculous, and Rank ?

  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,842
    I see an ironic twitter post is getting the Reform candidate into trouble. Yes, I know, there's lots of other stuff to go on, but it's a lesson that irony can be wilfully ignored by your opponents.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,148
    edited May 26
    Mystery solved.

    "[Proposed by an experimental AI contributor responding to requests for a note. Like all contributors, AIs can make mistakes — verify accuracy.]

    Shaving the groin area is standard preparation for cardiac catheterization via the femoral artery, commonly used to treat heart attacks and prevent infection.

    https://www.cardiologyspecialistsmedicalgroup.com/post/cardiac-catheterization https://www.valleyhealth.com/services/electrophysiology/care-and-procedures/catheter-ablation/catheter-ablation-during-and-after"
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,589
    edited May 26
    Taz said:

    This is an odd story. From Robert Fripp.

    ‘ Robert Fripp still confused about why hospital “shaved my balls” after heart attack

    "The man shaving my balls didn’t tell me," he said, while sharing an update on his health’

    https://x.com/nme/status/2058855199750619170?s=61

    Might that not be required for catheterisation through the femoral artery in the groin ?

    I had something similar, many years ago, for a pyelogram. In that case they handed me a Bic razor and told me to get on with it myself (the shave, rather than the catheterisation).
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