politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Ashcroft polling on the leaders
politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Ashcroft polling on the leaders
Overall, views of the three leaders have changed remarkably little over time. Asked to choose from a selection of words and phrases that might describe them, participants continue to choose “out of touch” for Cameron, with “stands up for Britain” as a positive counterbalance. Miliband remains predominantly “weak” and “out of his depth”, with no very prominent positives.
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First!0
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Both Nigel Farage and Alex Salmond must be pleased with these findings. Maybe it's only a matter of time before they're able to meet up with each other at an international summit.0
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Why does Ashcroft have Cameron's most-identified characteristic ("out of touch") in very pale lettering, while Miliband's ("out of his depth") is in bold?0
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Party Leaders?
Jawaharlal Nehru was a Congress party leader and prime minister for a number of years.
My MP, Gavin Barwell, might be party leader in 10 or 15 years' time if all goes well.
I discovered yesterday that they have something in common, apart from being politicians.0 -
PBers' thanks are again due to TSE for so competently holding the fort in OGH's absence.0
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I second that: TSE you've been outstanding.
Politicians? Assholes by and large.0 -
Mike Smithson returns from holiday today.
That sounds almost plaintive...
But thank you, and congratulations on keeping this fissaporous bunch more or less in check0 -
"That sounds almost plantive.."
As in putting down roots do you mean?0 -
In my defence, I've been up for the last 3 hours with a toddler who shows no interest in sleeping...peter_from_putney said:"That sounds almost plantive.."
As in putting down roots do you mean?0 -
Thanks TSE for some intersting threaders.
I just got around to watching Alex Jones's explosion on Sunday Politics. Quite amazing. I guess some in the US must quite like this sort of performance (and a performance it is), but I'm not so sure it works here in the UK.
For those who have not seen it: http://order-order.com/2013/06/09/watch-alex-jones-meltdown-on-daily-politics/0 -
"I just got around to watching Alex Jones's explosion on Sunday Politics."
Andrew Neil showed himself to be the consummate professional in the way he handled this. Many so-called presenters would have simply panicked.0 -
ED Balls sparked uproar yesterday when he signalled Labour was ready to cut pensions if their bill gets too high.
Handouts to the elderly WILL be included in the party’s new welfare spending cap, he revealed, insisting: “That’s our plan.”
This was because the soaring cost of pensions makes up the “large bulk” of the total £210billion social security tab, the Shadow Chancellor argued.
The explosive declaration is Labour’s biggest bid yet to win back shattered credibility on controlling the nation’s purse strings.
Mr Balls said: “It may be the Chancellor when it comes to his cap in a few weeks’ time will look at this and say he wants to exclude pensions spending.
“Personally, I think it’s important to look across the whole welfare state.”
The Tories leapt on the pledge, insisting Labour was planning to cut the new £144-a-week Basic State Pension.
Less than three hours later, Mr Balls sparked confusion when — despite his earlier bold declaration — he took to Twitter to insist Labour was committed to keeping the new pension rate after all.
According to aides, what he meant to cap was “overall spending on pensioners”, not pensions specifically.
But Mr Balls insisted it was still right to “monitor long-term pension spend”.
Tory Treasury Minister Sajid Javid said: “Now we know when Labour say they want to cut welfare, what they mean is cut the basic state pension.” A Tory spokesman added: “It’s about choices. We’ve cut billions from the welfare bill, all opposed by Labour, so that we can protect pensions.
“Balls is all over the place. No wonder he screwed up the economy so spectacularly in the first place.”
Mr Balls also insisted he was ready to stick to the Tories’ Government spending total if Labour wins in 2015.
He added: “I’ll have to be a Chancellor who says no.”
Meanwhile, Shadow Work and Pensions Secretary Liam Byrne said he and other Labour ministers should have cracked down on the soaring £12billion Incapacity Benefit bill when they had the chance.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4962158/Labour-Wed-cut-pensions.html#ixzz2VmurlTWO
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FAILURES by officials are still leaving vulnerable children at risk of being groomed for sex “in every part of the country”, a shock MPs’ report reveals today.
The response by councils, police and prosecutors can be dramatically different depending on where victims live.
Some authorities, such as Rochdale, Gtr Manchester, and Rotherham, South Yorks, have been “inexcusably slow” to realise the threat, the Commons Home Affairs Select Committee report found.
It also said there IS a trend of abuse by gangs of men of Pakistani heritage. Last month seven men from Oxford — mainly of Pakistani heritage — were convicted of child sexual exploitation offences.
Investigators must be able to raise concerns freely without fear of being labelled racist, the MPs say.
Committee chairman Keith Vaz — blasting “catastrophic failures” by protection agencies — said: “We were shocked to learn it is still happening, in every part of the country.”
Mr Vaz also calls for specialist child sexual exploitation courts and a ban on big pay-offs and pensions for bungling officials.
Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4962332/Sex-gangs-still-free-to-groom.html#ixzz2Vmvhl9Il
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He did a similar thing on a US show and was widely mocked for it there too. Meanwhile I assume Brits like Tapestry liked his performance. There's an awful lot of patronising about Americans on here sometimes.JosiasJessop said:Thanks TSE for some intersting threaders.
I just got around to watching Alex Jones's explosion on Sunday Politics. Quite amazing. I guess some in the US must quite like this sort of performance (and a performance it is), but I'm not so sure it works here in the UK.
For those who have not seen it: http://order-order.com/2013/06/09/watch-alex-jones-meltdown-on-daily-politics/0 -
I agree; he handled it very well. He also was not afraid to show exactly what he thought about the ridiculous and impolite guest. But enough about Aaronovitch. :-)peter_from_putney said:"I just got around to watching Alex Jones's explosion on Sunday Politics."
Andrew Neil showed himself to be the consummate professional in the way he handled this. Many so-called presenters would have simply panicked.
On other news: the young driver who I tipped in Ginetta Juniors at the end of last year has just made it eight wins out of eight races, on top of his comprehensive victory in the winter series.
The Ginetta Junior series is a same-make competition, which means driver skill and setup levels the playing field considerably and makes such dominance noteworthy. Watch out for him at Le Mans or in F1 in the future.0 -
I agree this wordcloud business is wide open for manipulation to the point of view of the presenter. basically a waste of time ( but keeps people who call themselves "creative" on account of owning a mac busy, no doubt )JamesKelly said:Why does Ashcroft have Cameron's most-identified characteristic ("out of touch") in very pale lettering, while Miliband's ("out of his depth") is in bold?
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One of Alex's best ever in today's Daily Telegraph:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/alex/0 -
he didn't panic, but I wouldn't say making insulting hand gestures to camera is particularly professional.peter_from_putney said:"I just got around to watching Alex Jones's explosion on Sunday Politics."
Andrew Neil showed himself to be the consummate professional in the way he handled this. Many so-called presenters would have simply panicked.
I do like this "euro-nazi plot" idea. they play a long game, these nazis.0 -
Most amusing. You think Andrew Neil didn't know exactly who this swivel-eyed loon was and precisely how he would behave? It's called theatrics. It was as much a performance from Neil as it was from Jones and both got just what they wanted out of the 'interview'. Publicity.peter_from_putney said:"I just got around to watching Alex Jones's explosion on Sunday Politics."
Andrew Neil showed himself to be the consummate professional in the way he handled this. Many so-called presenters would have simply panicked.
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" but I wouldn't say making insulting hand gestures to camera is particularly professional."
I would say he had to use hand gestures to make himself understood over that loud mouth.0 -
I suspect that being in office gives Cameron the appearance of "standing up for Britain", since when something significant happens, he is the one who gets to give the country's view on TV and radio.0
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" You think Andrew Neil didn't know exactly who this swivel-eyed loon was and precisely how he would behave? It's called theatrics. It was as much a performance from Neil as it was from Jones and both got just what they wanted out of the 'interview'. Publicity."
Possibly, but Neil still handled it excellently don't you think?0 -
Mr Eagles, well done on keeping PB rolling over the last few weeks.
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I've been watching The Newsroom S1 again - and by golly its worse than the first time. It's like Guardian TV on steroids claiming to be balanced whilst spending 95% of the time rubbishing the GOP/Tea Party/with a RINO anchorman who makes Cameron look like a righty.
And its back for another series in July - crikey. Aaron Sorkin really has lost the plot with this compared to WWing - at least that wasn't meant to be unbiased.0 -
The Express have managed to create a very imaginative royal story:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/406390/Canadian-bid-to-block-Kate-Middleton-s-daughter-becoming-Queen
This is billed on the front page as "NEW BID TO STOP KATE'S BABY GIRL BEING QUEEN". I suppose the clue that all might not be as it seems was in the fact that they preferred to lead with a story about pensions.0 -
Isn't it obvious that Alex Jones is a distractor employed by Bilderberg to stop us from taking it seriously? That is why he is still alive and behaves like a total loon.
(Identifies today's tinfoil hat).0 -
Alex Jones' ability to rant is legendary - he can be very entertaining on his radio talkshow. And he has made some very good points under the conspiracy theory guise on other subjects.DavidL said:Isn't it obvious that Alex Jones is a distractor employed by Bilderberg to stop us from taking it seriously? That is why he is still alive and behaves like a total loon.
(Identifies today's tinfoil hat).
I think we just aren't generally used to this sort of stuff over here so find it very difficult to understand the style. A much more acceptable version is Jesse Ventura - he sounds really very sensible most of the time. That he was a Governor just shows how different things are over there.0 -
Scarcely any different to Piers Morgan which is hardly that high praise.peter_from_putney said:" You think Andrew Neil didn't know exactly who this swivel-eyed loon was and precisely how he would behave? It's called theatrics. It was as much a performance from Neil as it was from Jones and both got just what they wanted out of the 'interview'. Publicity."
Possibly, but Neil still handled it excellently don't you think?
Get the fruitcake on, wind him up, watch him go and then act exasperated and look reassuringly reasonable when he does precisely what you wanted. Though Neil's rather manic hand gesturing and repeated "shut up"s sort of spoiled that effect just a touch. Next to a babbling swivel-eyed loon like Jones it should be a piece of cake to look good. You let him hang himself as he needs no help or encouraging. If the likes of Piers Morgan can do it, anyone can.
Anyone dumb enough to take Alex Jones remotely seriously probably believes that Bliderberg group is run by sinister immigrant cats. ;^ )0 -
Many thanks to TSE for running PB0
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The 'Diana to raise Houseprices' writer must be on holiday ...antifrank said:The Express have managed to create a very imaginative royal story:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/406390/Canadian-bid-to-block-Kate-Middleton-s-daughter-becoming-Queen
This is billed on the front page as "NEW BID TO STOP KATE'S BABY GIRL BEING QUEEN". I suppose the clue that all might not be as it seems was in the fact that they preferred to lead with a story about pensions.
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TSE has done a fantastic job.0
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p.s Who's Alex Jones? Never heard of him, and sounds like I don't want to.0
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I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.0 -
Lord! I agree with something BenM said!
TSE has been a shining star while OGH has been on his hols. Eagles he owes you a crate of beer.0 -
@Richardohos
"The 'Diana to raise Houseprices' writer must be on holiday "
Thank you for brightening my day with a very amusing comment.0 -
As a newcomer, adding my vote of thanks to TSE.
Meanwhile if anyone's up for overthrowing the State -
https://network23.org/stopg8/files/2013/05/citymap_g8_webposter.jpg
some bolted on classics in there - I am struggling to believe it's not a parody.0 -
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
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Looks like the lib dems are still struggling with the notion that you get what you pay for.
If you pay nothing then don't act surprised if comical incompetence soon follows.Unpaid internships: Tim Farron replies
http://www.libdemvoice.org/unpaid-internships-tim-farron-replies-34838.html0 -
I think Godwins law has been reached early.MonikerDiCanio said:
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
The purpose of our GCHQ and other spooks is surely to monitor communications and thereby threats to our country and way of life.
I expect them to monitor internet communications and also to penetrate suspicious organisations covertly, at home or abroad. It is what we pay them for! Admissability in court is a different matter.
James Bond would be a very dull series if the character was prevented from entering premeses without a warrent, listening covertly to communications and occassionally getting rough with people.0 -
This whole state surveillance thing is very interesting. I have always rather thought of lefties as being in love with the state - they want to spend more and have more government and just more of anything to do with the state. BenM is relaxed about the state spying on us because - well - it's the state. Not Big Brother to him but a warm cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit.
Me, I think the state is a very mixed bag and deserves huge scrutiny and frankly outright suspicion. I demand value for money and I do not defer to or give unblinking respect to those in positions of state authority.
We must not let the state fall easily into a position of too much security / too much control / too much access to our lives all in the cause of 'security'. Sod 'em. If the price of liberty is a casualty rate from failed intelligence that is a tiny percentage of our road deaths then I'm OK with that.
Remember - THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.0 -
Whatever one thinks of Mr Snowden - he's certainly made a splash and puts Assange in the shade somewhat.
I'm only across bits of the story - some of it seems to be 'well they would, wouldn't they' and the rest is rather disturbing re its scale/reach and the deliberate side-stepping of supposed laws to protect individuals.
That its sucked in so many big names must be causing a headache - particularly for those who see *trust* as an important brand value. Google lost theirs a long time ago - Apple and Verizon must be squirming.0 -
I wonder how this will play out with Google Glass. The privacy concerns are just going to get worsePlato said:That its sucked in so many big names must be causing a headache - particularly for those who see *trust* as an important brand value. Google lost theirs a long time ago - Apple and Verizon must be squirming.
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It's a fine line between wholesale State spying on its own citizens, and checking out what baddies are doing.foxinsoxuk said:
I think Godwins law has been reached early.MonikerDiCanio said:
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
The purpose of our GCHQ and other spooks is surely to monitor communications and thereby threats to our country and way of life.
I expect them to monitor internet communications and also to penetrate suspicious organisations covertly, at home or abroad. It is what we pay them for! Admissability in court is a different matter.
James Bond would be a very dull series if the character was prevented from entering premeses without a warrent, listening covertly to communications and occassionally getting rough with people.
I recall several years ago, reports of a building in NI that had no windows and was an intercept station re domestic terrorism. I've no idea if it was true but seemed plausible. BBC Monitoring at Caversham does more than most people realise - though the day they caught Asprilla saying he wasn't returning to NUFC, on a local radio station in the backend of nowhere was rather amusing.0 -
Aren't you some type of doctor ? So much for patient confidentiality and the Hippocratic Oath.foxinsoxuk said:
I think Godwins law has been reached early.MonikerDiCanio said:
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
The purpose of our GCHQ and other spooks is surely to monitor communications and thereby threats to our country and way of life.
I expect them to monitor internet communications and also to penetrate suspicious organisations covertly, at home or abroad. It is what we pay them for! Admissability in court is a different matter.
James Bond would be a very dull series if the character was prevented from entering premeses without a warrent, listening covertly to communications and occassionally getting rough with people.
" What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about. "0 -
To be fair (and I think the headline is "Canadian" rather than "new"), it is probably more accurate vs the contents of the article (although it implies the sex of Catherine's child is known) than many Daily Mail headlinesantifrank said:The Express have managed to create a very imaginative royal story:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/406390/Canadian-bid-to-block-Kate-Middleton-s-daughter-becoming-Queen
This is billed on the front page as "NEW BID TO STOP KATE'S BABY GIRL BEING QUEEN". I suppose the clue that all might not be as it seems was in the fact that they preferred to lead with a story about pensions.0 -
Google Glass is a good example - I suspect it will become popular because its appeal will trump the privacy aspect. Most won't care - there have been so many privacy *shock* stories over the years, yet people tend to say 'so what'.RobD said:
I wonder how this will play out with Google Glass. The privacy concerns are just going to get worsePlato said:That its sucked in so many big names must be causing a headache - particularly for those who see *trust* as an important brand value. Google lost theirs a long time ago - Apple and Verizon must be squirming.
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Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitherPatrick said:This whole state surveillance thing is very interesting. I have always rather thought of lefties as being in love with the state - they want to spend more and have more government and just more of anything to do with the state. BenM is relaxed about the state spying on us because - well - it's the state. Not Big Brother to him but a warm cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit.
Me, I think the state is a very mixed bag and deserves huge scrutiny and frankly outright suspicion. I demand value for money and I do not defer to or give unblinking respect to those in positions of state authority.
We must not let the state fall easily into a position of too much security / too much control / too much access to our lives all in the cause of 'security'. Sod 'em. If the price of liberty is a casualty rate from failed intelligence that is a tiny percentage of our road deaths then I'm OK with that.
Remember - THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
(I wish that was an original comment, but BenF got there before me)0 -
Nice one dugarbandier - lol! And like others I'd say three cheers for TSE keeping us entertained every day.dugarbandier said:
I do like this "euro-nazi plot" idea. they play a long game, these nazis.
On topic, I do think that the general contempt for politicians is partly media-driven and doesn't generally survive direct contact with the public: every MP is familiar with numerous constituents who tell them that they do a good job and it must be awful to work with all those other sleazebags.
Obviously politicians who fiddle expenses and the like are to blame as well, but the effect of the relentless hostility of most of the media is to breed politicians who remain robotically self-controlled and never say anything interesting, express doubt, admit error or change their minds. Our press is very good at exposing wrong-doing, but also very bad at giving a fair hearing to anything except their own agendas.
It's specific to Britain. I'm familiar with the press across Western Europe and the US, and while every country has its Daily Mail/Sun equivalents, they aren't dominant, and a serious argument gets a hearing.
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It's a no-brainer to assume that this sort of thing goes on.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
However, that is not the problem. Whilst good cases can be made for gathering such information, the use of that information needs to be carefully controlled.
The potential for misuse is massive. Heck, we jail people for misuse of the DVLA database, and yet a massively more intrusive database does not seem to have oversight.
And such information, if it exists, will get misused. And that is where my concerns lie.0 -
I think this is the problem with the Right. It's child-like emotional reliance on the idea of the state as some distant unaccountable beast that - gasp - might just tell them what to do.Patrick said:This whole state surveillance thing is very interesting. I have always rather thought of lefties as being in love with the state - they want to spend more and have more government and just more of anything to do with the state. BenM is relaxed about the state spying on us because - well - it's the state. Not Big Brother to him but a warm cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit.
Me, I think the state is a very mixed bag and deserves huge scrutiny and frankly outright suspicion. I demand value for money and I do not defer to or give unblinking respect to those in positions of state authority.
We must not let the state fall easily into a position of too much security / too much control / too much access to our lives all in the cause of 'security'. Sod 'em. If the price of liberty is a casualty rate from failed intelligence that is a tiny percentage of our road deaths then I'm OK with that.
Remember - THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
The Right is a bit like the dislikeable snotty kid on the school playground that whines that they won't be told what to do until they eventually end up eating the dog poo on a stick despite all the warnings and end up vomiting everywhere, usually over everyone else.
I view the state rather like a chisel or a hammer. A functional tool that is very useful to call upon when the job requires (like state kicking off spending in a slump, or providing universal services like policing, fire and rescue, health coverage or education). Most of the time it sits in the box and I don't care for it. But I'm glad its there when its needed.
No fluffy bunnies here.0 -
Where is BenF these days; he hardly ever posts anymore.Charles said:
Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitherPatrick said:This whole state surveillance thing is very interesting. I have always rather thought of lefties as being in love with the state - they want to spend more and have more government and just more of anything to do with the state. BenM is relaxed about the state spying on us because - well - it's the state. Not Big Brother to him but a warm cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit.
Me, I think the state is a very mixed bag and deserves huge scrutiny and frankly outright suspicion. I demand value for money and I do not defer to or give unblinking respect to those in positions of state authority.
We must not let the state fall easily into a position of too much security / too much control / too much access to our lives all in the cause of 'security'. Sod 'em. If the price of liberty is a casualty rate from failed intelligence that is a tiny percentage of our road deaths then I'm OK with that.
Remember - THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
(I wish that was an original comment, but BenF got there before me)
My view remains that far more people have been killed, tortured or imprisoned by their own government, than by foreign governments. And, statistically, terrorism rates barely a blip, compared to the ability of your own government to inconvenience you.
My opposition to ID cards stems from my belief that it is the government's job to identify itself to the citizenry, rather than the other way around.0 -
And the reason we are usually chary about such data collection is that it relies on a benign State to not misuse it. If the State or one of its parts decides to misuse data, then its an entirely different kettle of fish.JosiasJessop said:
It's a no-brainer to assume that this sort of thing goes on.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
However, that is not the problem. Whilst good cases can be made for gathering such information, the use of that information needs to be carefully controlled.
The potential for misuse is massive. Heck, we jail people for misuse of the DVLA database, and yet a massively more intrusive database does not seem to have oversight.
And such information, if it exists, will get misused. And that is where my concerns lie.
Assuming that your friends will be in power is remarkably naive in my view - hence the fuss about the likes of Levenson restricting press freedoms. There are lots of things I don't like about press conduct, but I'd rather keeps the flaws with the freedoms than lose both.0 -
Speaking of the DVLA
Joe Armitage @Joe_Armitage
DVLA banned 294 local authorities from their database for abuse: m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi…. Yet we're meant to trust the state with our emails.0 -
I think he's taking an air bath somewherercs1000 said:
Where is BenF these days; he hardly ever posts anymore.Charles said:
Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitherPatrick said:This whole state surveillance thing is very interesting. I have always rather thought of lefties as being in love with the state - they want to spend more and have more government and just more of anything to do with the state. BenM is relaxed about the state spying on us because - well - it's the state. Not Big Brother to him but a warm cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit.
Me, I think the state is a very mixed bag and deserves huge scrutiny and frankly outright suspicion. I demand value for money and I do not defer to or give unblinking respect to those in positions of state authority.
We must not let the state fall easily into a position of too much security / too much control / too much access to our lives all in the cause of 'security'. Sod 'em. If the price of liberty is a casualty rate from failed intelligence that is a tiny percentage of our road deaths then I'm OK with that.
Remember - THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
(I wish that was an original comment, but BenF got there before me)
My view remains that far more people have been killed, tortured or imprisoned by their own government, than by foreign governments. And, statistically, terrorism rates barely a blip, compared to the ability of your own government to inconvenience you.
My opposition to ID cards stems from my belief that it is the government's job to identify itself to the citizenry, rather than the other way around.0 -
If the political class cared about terrorism they'd control the border and deport radical preachers. The stasi state they're building isn't for terrorists it's for the public.0
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As a thank you to TSE for holding the fort, a bit of Star Trek-Shatner-Pulp to start your week:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI3UfxyIdgs
Superb editing by someone who knows their early Star Trek just a little too well....0 -
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I agree with BenM that it's naive to assume that your internet use isn't being monitored in some way. But I'm very interested in who watches the watchmen.
Governments start taking monitoring powers to supervise terrorists and within a decade use them brazenly for local authorities to investigate the selling of alcohol and tobacco to minors (to give just one example).0 -
Plato, no not seen it yet, although The Good Lady Wife was at their party at Cannes. Michael Douglas is supposed to be very very good - but having a bunch of straight guys playing gay guys does suggest it might be like watching a 3D movie without the glasses... Or like listening to Hawkwind not off your face on mind-altering substances. An essential component isn't quite right...0
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I must admit I haven't been following the story too closely, mainly because it seems very confused at the moment, especially since the conspiracy weirdos have jumped on it.Plato said:Speaking of the DVLA
Joe Armitage @Joe_Armitage
DVLA banned 294 local authorities from their database for abuse: m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politi…. Yet we're meant to trust the state with our emails.
But I thought the data that was being collected was not the contents of emails, but subsidiary information, for instance the sender/recipient info and websites visited?
Dangerous, but not quite as dangerous as the contents.
(If they are collecting the data, we ought to overwhelm them by piping the data from the Square Kiloemetre Array telescope into their system when it gets up and running.The SKA’s more than 500,000 antennas scattered across southern Africa and Australia will produce a torrent of data that’s equivalent to 10 times the daily global Internet traffic.
http://asmarterplanet.com/blog/2013/03/the-square-kilometer-array-the-world’s-ultimate-big-data-challenge.html0 -
Interesting factoid from Nick Shaxson: 40% of the world's banks are publicly owned.
We don't need Lloyds or RBS to be hived off to the self same private sector that broke them just to please the Tory election timetable. They're both not ready (and RBS should be nationalised full stop) so give it up Osborne.0 -
Are you suggesting Liberace was gay?! I hope his lawyers arent reading this...MarqueeMark said:having a bunch of straight guys playing gay guys does suggest it might be like watching a 3D movie without the glasses...
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@JosiasJessop
I've just picked up the cliff-notes and it seems to be the same story that blew up about 5yrs ago and didn't really get anywhere. TBH, if I was a whistleblower - I'd really wonder how to best avoid being snooped on given the prevalence of CCTV, ANPR et al.
Perhaps the only thing that saves most of us - even with evil intents - is the vastness of the data, the degree of difficulty in trying to piece actions together in advance and the limited resources on hand to do the job.
Being a smart lone-wolf would be very hard to intercept in advance.0 -
I add my thanks to TSE for keeping the ship afloat and in good order.0
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Wasn't it Liberace's will that spawned the term Palimony?Neil said:
Are you suggesting Liberace was gay?! I hope his lawyers arent reading this...MarqueeMark said:having a bunch of straight guys playing gay guys does suggest it might be like watching a 3D movie without the glasses...
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rcs1000 said:
Where is BenF these days; he hardly ever posts anymore.Charles said:
Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neitherPatrick said:This whole state surveillance thing is very interesting. I have always rather thought of lefties as being in love with the state - they want to spend more and have more government and just more of anything to do with the state. BenM is relaxed about the state spying on us because - well - it's the state. Not Big Brother to him but a warm cuddly fluffy bunny rabbit.
Me, I think the state is a very mixed bag and deserves huge scrutiny and frankly outright suspicion. I demand value for money and I do not defer to or give unblinking respect to those in positions of state authority.
We must not let the state fall easily into a position of too much security / too much control / too much access to our lives all in the cause of 'security'. Sod 'em. If the price of liberty is a casualty rate from failed intelligence that is a tiny percentage of our road deaths then I'm OK with that.
Remember - THE STATE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND.
(I wish that was an original comment, but BenF got there before me)
My view remains that far more people have been killed, tortured or imprisoned by their own government, than by foreign governments. And, statistically, terrorism rates barely a blip, compared to the ability of your own government to inconvenience you.
My opposition to ID cards stems from my belief that it is the government's job to identify itself to the citizenry, rather than the other way around.MonikerDiCanio said:
Aren't you some type of doctor ? So much for patient confidentiality and the Hippocratic Oath.foxinsoxuk said:
I think Godwins law has been reached early.MonikerDiCanio said:
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
The purpose of our GCHQ and other spooks is surely to monitor communications and thereby threats to our country and way of life.
I expect them to monitor internet communications and also to penetrate suspicious organisations covertly, at home or abroad. It is what we pay them for! Admissability in court is a different matter.
James Bond would be a very dull series if the character was prevented from entering premeses without a warrent, listening covertly to communications and occassionally getting rough with people.
" What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about. "
Sure; i respect patient confidelity; though this is not absolute. If example a patient admitted to me an intention to carry out a serious crime then this is potentially over ridden by duty to society.
It is beside the point though. GCHQ does not provide medical services. It is for spying.
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Thank you all for your kind words.
I feel that I've let you all down by not doing a single thread about electoral reform or electoral voting systems during this stint as editor.
But the good news, Mike's asked me to do my night hawks on a regular basis going forward.
So that means you're going to get your fix of very subtle pop music references in night hawks on a regular basis starting next month.0 -
Bennie boy, you need to revise your history. England (and her colonies) do not employ state-militias for a reason. Man, in the past, those things caused bad vibes!BenM said:I think this is the problem with the Right. It's child-like emotional reliance on the idea of the state as some distant unaccountable beast that - gasp - might just tell them what to do....
The state is not your friend: It exists to purpetuate it's own existence. I'd rather a hundred terrorists were free to roam my country then to be held as a potential criminal myself (as Sven would love to do)....0 -
Re Prism, I don't understand all the controversy.
During his election campaign in 2008 Barack Obama promised to listen to all Americans when he became President.
He's living up to his promise.0 -
@Neil
The BOS Labour selection result by AV...
Round 1: Goyal 84 Coyle 60 Livingstone 38 Edwards 29 Cryan 11
Round 2: Goyal 85 Coyle 65 Livingstone 42 Edwards 29
Round 3: Goyal 86 Coyle 75 Livingstone 58
Round 4: Coyle 104 Goyal 103
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Yes, that's quite a black mark against your name.TheScreamingEagles said:
I feel that I've let you all down by not doing a single thread about electoral reform or electoral voting systems during this stint as editor.
.
Must do better next time...!
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Likewise, thanks to TSE for thought provoking, interesting and Ed is crap threads.
Do we now assume that TSE will be experiencing the early symptoms of alopecia that are known to be associated with those who run PB.com?0 -
Interesting factiod: The IMF is - in effect - a state-owned bank. Shame that Gormless and his crew ignored their advice....BenM said:Interesting factoid from Nick Shaxson: 40% of the world's banks are publicly owned.
:facepalm:0 -
I started going bald in 2007.philiph said:Likewise, thanks to TSE for thought provoking, interesting and Ed is crap threads.
Do we now assume that TSE will be experiencing the early symptoms of alopecia that are known to be associated with those who run PB.com?
Back to the advanced hair studio for me soon.0 -
For conspiracy theorists everywhere today, watch Person of Interest :-)0
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There was a tower near Liverpool iirc that BT sold off post privitisation that sat with line with a micrwave link from NI that had been used to hoover up every phone call into and out of the entire island.Plato said:
It's a fine line between wholesale State spying on its own citizens, and checking out what baddies are doing.foxinsoxuk said:
I think Godwins law has been reached early.MonikerDiCanio said:
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
The purpose of our GCHQ and other spooks is surely to monitor communications and thereby threats to our country and way of life.
I expect them to monitor internet communications and also to penetrate suspicious organisations covertly, at home or abroad. It is what we pay them for! Admissability in court is a different matter.
James Bond would be a very dull series if the character was prevented from entering premeses without a warrent, listening covertly to communications and occassionally getting rough with people.
I recall several years ago, reports of a building in NI that had no windows and was an intercept station re domestic terrorism. I've no idea if it was true but seemed plausible. BBC Monitoring at Caversham does more than most people realise - though the day they caught Asprilla saying he wasn't returning to NUFC, on a local radio station in the backend of nowhere was rather amusing.0 -
Very courageous by Dave to do this, I'd expect some on the right to be very unhappy
David Cameron to reinforce importance of Britain's EU membership
PM to join forces with Kenneth Clarke prior to G8 summit to argue EU membership guarantees Britain a seat at the 'top table'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/10/david-cameron-ken-clarke-eu-membership0 -
Can we mock the Daily Mail instead?
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2013/06/08/is-this-proof-the-virgin-queen-was-an-imposter-in-drag/0 -
I see the All Party Parliamentary Group on immigration is now wanting the new rules on family migration reversed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22833136
A quick look at the group's membership shows it's overwhelmingly lefty:
http://www.appgmigration.org.uk/members
Seriously, is there no restriction on immigration that lefties won't oppose? The primary purpose rule is "racist". Removing sponsorship rights from universities abusing the rules "causes uncertainty". Clamping down on dodgy Further Education colleges "removes a source of revenue". And now, making sure that people who come to the UK won't end up on the public teat is "anti-family". It's almost like they just instinctively want to bring in as many people as possible. I'm sure that's entirely unrelated to the fact immigrants tend to vote for left-wing parties.
I find it particularly distasteful they use individual cases as if they're generic to pull on the heart strings. I'm sorry, but if you have a child with someone before you've sorted out their immigration status, it's pretty irresponsible, and it's not the government's duty to make it ok. Let's also be honest that many of the non-EEA spouses of low earners will be arranged marriages. I don't see such people particularly losing out if they have to find a wife from the UK.0 -
Surely the point is that terrorism is about spreading fear using uncertainty as a weapon to extract demands - dying in car accident is almost never the object of the activity - its just a way of getting from Point A to Point B.FluffyThoughts said:
And dying in a wood and the details being suppressed for many decades just makes most of us wonder why.0 -
Actually if one reads the story it's more about internal Canadian politics and the need to consult the provinces about constitutional changes.antifrank said:The Express have managed to create a very imaginative royal story:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/406390/Canadian-bid-to-block-Kate-Middleton-s-daughter-becoming-Queen
This is billed on the front page as "NEW BID TO STOP KATE'S BABY GIRL BEING QUEEN". I suppose the clue that all might not be as it seems was in the fact that they preferred to lead with a story about pensions.
It would never have been published under Beaverbrook!
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'Brave' indeed.TheScreamingEagles said:Very courageous by Dave to do this, I'd expect some on the right to be very unhappy
David Cameron to reinforce importance of Britain's EU membership
PM to join forces with Kenneth Clarke prior to G8 summit to argue EU membership guarantees Britain a seat at the 'top table'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/10/david-cameron-ken-clarke-eu-membership0 -
TSE - Thank you for the refreshing way that you have taken in looking at current topics.TheScreamingEagles said:Thank you all for your kind words.
I feel that I've let you all down by not doing a single thread about electoral reform or electoral voting systems during this stint as editor.
But the good news, Mike's asked me to do my night hawks on a regular basis going forward.
So that means you're going to get your fix of very subtle pop music references in night hawks on a regular basis starting next month.
Your nighthawks is especially appreciated (with its links) for those of us who are office bound but do not have enough time in the day to follow PB and the rest of the political news.0 -
Would you rather the PM was "out of touch" or "out of his depth"
in a crisis the former.
any other time:
the former.
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I rather like PoI - its got the tiddliest cast, most implausible plots but great viewing. The final episodes in the current series are a bit arse about face - I had to watch them twice to make sure I got all the references as it jumped forward and back through time.Blue_rog said:For conspiracy theorists everywhere today, watch Person of Interest :-)
EDIT for anyone interested - The Killing is back on.0 -
I pity the poor sod who had to listen in to the telephone calls between my granny and my mother.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:There was a tower near Liverpool iirc that BT sold off post privitisation that sat with line with a micrwave link from NI that had been used to hoover up every phone call into and out of the entire island.
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I've also just noted that the All Party Parliamentary Group on immigration has the left-wing Migrant Rights' Network as it's secretariat! These are the people who have a formal aim to "ensure recognition of immigration in the creation of culturally rich and diverse societies".
What a massive conflict of interest... it's becoming clear just how biased the whole report is. Yet the BBC treat it like some neutral body, when they clearly have an agenda.0 -
That's it!Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:There was a tower near Liverpool iirc that BT sold off post privitisation that sat with line with a micrwave link from NI that had been used to hoover up every phone call into and out of the entire island.
Plato said:
It's a fine line between wholesale State spying on its own citizens, and checking out what baddies are doing.foxinsoxuk said:
I think Godwins law has been reached early.MonikerDiCanio said:
Presumably BenM would have been similarly relaxed about the activities of the Stasi and Gestapo.BenM said:I don't care about the NSA or PRISM. Sorry Guardian.
Does anyone else?
Anyone out there who thinks their internet activity isn't being monitored in some way is naive.
Who cared ?
The purpose of our GCHQ and other spooks is surely to monitor communications and thereby threats to our country and way of life.
I expect them to monitor internet communications and also to penetrate suspicious organisations covertly, at home or abroad. It is what we pay them for! Admissability in court is a different matter.
James Bond would be a very dull series if the character was prevented from entering premeses without a warrent, listening covertly to communications and occassionally getting rough with people.
I recall several years ago, reports of a building in NI that had no windows and was an intercept station re domestic terrorism. I've no idea if it was true but seemed plausible. BBC Monitoring at Caversham does more than most people realise - though the day they caught Asprilla saying he wasn't returning to NUFC, on a local radio station in the backend of nowhere was rather amusing.0 -
For me, the freakiest bit was right at the end of the last episode of series 2. No more details as I don't want to spoil it for anyone.Plato said:
I rather like PoI - its got the tiddliest cast, most implausible plots but great viewing. The final episodes in the current series are a bit arse about face - I had to watch them twice to make sure I got all the references as it jumped forward and back through time.Blue_rog said:For conspiracy theorists everywhere today, watch Person of Interest :-)
EDIT for anyone interested - The Killing is back on.0 -
My bog-trotting cousins [sic] almost blew me up in South Quays. My mum spoke to her nephew in some very harsh terms. What's to fear: The Oirish are a shadow of the dreams now.Plato said:Surely the point is that terrorism is about spreading fear using uncertainty as a weapon to extract demands - dying in car accident is almost never the object of the activity - its just a way of getting from Point A to Point B.
And dying in a wood and the details being suppressed for many decades just makes most of us wonder why.
Same with the Cultists: Don't fear them. I will continue to drink the finest alcohol (Domelsch and - alternatively - Scrumpy-Jack), cook some wonderful pork meals and, even, talk to those who are 'out and proud'. Deranged folk screaming "Jihad" and such-like deserve our sympathy (and a cut in benefits): Internment is not the answer to such nonsense....0 -
It's almost like we're not one of the top seven economies, have a permanent seat at the UN security council, are one of the few nuclear powers, have an incredibly close intelligence sharing relationship with the world's super power and are one of the few nuclear powers.TheScreamingEagles said:Very courageous by Dave to do this, I'd expect some on the right to be very unhappy
David Cameron to reinforce importance of Britain's EU membership
PM to join forces with Kenneth Clarke prior to G8 summit to argue EU membership guarantees Britain a seat at the 'top table'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/10/david-cameron-ken-clarke-eu-membership0 -
Have you tried Haven, Eureka, Supernatural or Warehouse 13? They have their ups and downs - IIRC you liked Fringe. I can't get into Continuum yet.Blue_rog said:
For me, the freakiest bit was right at the end of the last episode of series 2. No more details as I don't want to spoil it for anyone.Plato said:
I rather like PoI - its got the tiddliest cast, most implausible plots but great viewing. The final episodes in the current series are a bit arse about face - I had to watch them twice to make sure I got all the references as it jumped forward and back through time.Blue_rog said:For conspiracy theorists everywhere today, watch Person of Interest :-)
EDIT for anyone interested - The Killing is back on.0 -
Before I disappear, we should be getting the Guardian/ICM poll today.0
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Sounds like France.Socrates said:
It's almost like we're not one of the top seven economies, have a permanent seat at the UN security council, are one of the few nuclear powers, have an incredibly close intelligence sharing relationship with the world's super power and are one of the few nuclear powers.TheScreamingEagles said:Very courageous by Dave to do this, I'd expect some on the right to be very unhappy
David Cameron to reinforce importance of Britain's EU membership
PM to join forces with Kenneth Clarke prior to G8 summit to argue EU membership guarantees Britain a seat at the 'top table'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/10/david-cameron-ken-clarke-eu-membership
France is in the EU last time I looked.
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Haven - NoPlato said:
Have you tried Haven, Eureka, Supernatural or Warehouse 13? They have their ups and downs - IIRC you liked Fringe. I can't get into Continuum yet.Blue_rog said:
For me, the freakiest bit was right at the end of the last episode of series 2. No more details as I don't want to spoil it for anyone.Plato said:
I rather like PoI - its got the tiddliest cast, most implausible plots but great viewing. The final episodes in the current series are a bit arse about face - I had to watch them twice to make sure I got all the references as it jumped forward and back through time.Blue_rog said:For conspiracy theorists everywhere today, watch Person of Interest :-)
EDIT for anyone interested - The Killing is back on.
Eureka - yes for the first few series then it got silly
Supernatural - yes for about 4 series then I lost the plot :-)
Warehouse 13 - yes but like you I felt it was rubbish after the first couple of series.
Fringe - no, what's it about?
Continuum - is that a Stargate spin off?
How about Alphas, not a bad retake on X men, Heroes mutant X etc.
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