Skip to content

Did Peter Murrell’s embezzling cost Yes the 2014 independence referendum? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,256
edited May 25 in General
Did Peter Murrell’s embezzling cost Yes the 2014 independence referendum? – politicalbetting.com

Peter Murrell was once at the heart of power in Scotland. He was SNP chief exec; his wife, Nicola Sturgeon, SNP leader & First Minister.Today, we watched Peter Murrell being handcuffed in court. Then we saw him taken away in a prison van, guilty of embezzling more than £400k. https://t.co/yYbqjtlEzw pic.twitter.com/j63HnvM9cE

Read the full story here

«13

Comments

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,699
    I had the same thought, but the first major act of embezzlement wasn't until 2016, unless there was more than the police didn't find out about.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    I am sure it will be blamed for it whether it was or not.

    After all, easier to blame the failings of a criminal than to admit they put forward something people looked at and rejected due to its contradictions and confusions.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,608
    Never thought he'd go down for it. A lot of incompetent people in his orbit to not find out, it would seem.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    edited May 25
    No won by a clear 55% margin, a mere £400k spent by the Yes campaign certainly wasn't going to change anything.

    One could say spending £160 on a Folio Society history book and £200 on Fortnum and Mason advent calendars and over £2k on Lallique salt and pepper grinders and £57k on a Jaguar I Pace shows rather better taste from Murrell than the latest Nat whinge and propaganda. So some unionists may have some sympathy with his predicament. I couldn't possibly comment. Even though he of course has to face the consequences of his crime
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780
    edited May 25
    Something a lurker has pointed out to me.

    Nobody at the SNP raised this to the police, it took a member of the public to make a complaint to the police.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,616
    edited May 25
    Whatever you say about Peter Murrell he knew a good coffee machine when he saw one. For £5,700 it must have made damn fine coffee.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780
    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439

    HYUFD said:

    OT - The Greens and Lib Dems can certainly be squeezed to 2%, 1% or even less in exceptional circumstances. These may well be just those circumstances. Of course if that poll is right (a huge if) then Reform could probably squeeze Restore GB to even better results.

    Oh - to get the Burnham for PM bandwagon rolling he needs to win by one vote. Any more is just a bonus.

    Though Restore supporters on X are firmly of the view Reform is just now a part for British Asians and ex Tories and only Lowe offers true British nationalism
    Could it be the far right have the same in-built tendency to factionalism as the far left?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
    All political religions love to define heretics and excommunicate them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780
    edited May 25

    Whatever you say about Peter Murrells he knew a good coffee machine when he saw one. For £5,700 it must have been damn fine coffee.

    We have a similarly expensive machine at work.

    The biggest employee unhappiness issue was when I hired a milk in firster.

    People who drink tea/coffee are not to be riled, something as a non tea/coffee drinker boss I have learned to my cost.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439

    Whatever you say about Peter Murrell he knew a good coffee machine when he saw one. For £5,700 it must have been damn fine coffee.

    It is probably crap. The expensive machines are generally worse than a stove top moka pot
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780
    ydoethur said:

    I am sure it will be blamed for it whether it was or not.

    After all, easier to blame the failings of a criminal than to admit they put forward something people looked at and rejected due to its contradictions and confusions.

    Yup, as I note, the currency and lender of last resort was key.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 32,422
    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 37,213

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    Your fellow Cambridge alumnus Guy Burgess had F&M hampers sent regularly to Russia.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,351
    edited May 25
    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632

    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?

    Given Burnham would likely need the LDs that is unlikely to lead to hard left government
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,616
    edited May 25

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    I don't think Fortnums too flash at all, particularly for high days and holidays.

    I once saw Bill Nighy doing his weekly grocery shopping in the basement. We Champagne socialists know how to live, I thought.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    edited May 25

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    You really shouldn't but... oh, go on then.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    Your fellow Cambridge alumnus Guy Burgess had F&M hampers sent regularly to Russia.
    I absolutely love the fact they have a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras station.

    Makes my trips from Sheffield to London all the better
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    It's funny how listing the all the goods resonates more than just a monetary figure.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    £127 on Amazon
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,570
    Phew it’s a scorcher out there. Hotter than the Costas as they used to say.

    And there’s nothing like a statistically remarkable hot day in Britain to bring out the hordes on Twitter. Read any post by a meteorologist and there’s a deluge of commenters seemingly deeply upset that a weather professional is tweeting about the weather. And these days sprinkled lightly with stuff about chemtrails too.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,616

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    Your fellow Cambridge alumnus Guy Burgess had F&M hampers sent regularly to Russia.
    I absolutely love the fact they have a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras station.

    Makes my trips from Sheffield to London all the better
    The only place to breakfast if one is unlucky to fly BA and need to use Heathrow T5.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 67,195
    This is strangely much more common than people might think it should be, although not everyone does it.

    I can think of 3-4 names of people who've been closely involved with my charitable Trust in the past who've done this, one who paid it back just before he was found out and would have been done for embezzlement.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,722
    Good afternoon

    On topic I doubt it, but what a sorry mess Murrell has landed his ex wife Sturgeon in and the wider SNP movement

    Swinney has just been asked if the SNP will repay the money and he fudged the answer

    I expect if I had arrived on the drive with a £100,000+ campervan my good lady would have wanted to know how it was funded, and also the appearance of luxury items in their home

    No matter, it will be something she will be forever associated with fairly or not

    I have noticed an uptick in the polls for labour but a corresponding one, if not greater, for reform so I would caution that Burnham may not the shoe in some may expect but I hope I am wrong
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    Whatever you say about Peter Murrells he knew a good coffee machine when he saw one. For £5,700 it must have been damn fine coffee.

    We have a similarly expensive machine at work.

    The biggest employee unhappiness issue was when I hired a milk in firster.

    People who drink tea/coffee are not to be riled, something as a non tea/coffee drinker boss I have learned to my cost.
    I seem to remember milk in first was only because it killed some of the bacteria and protected the porcelain china..

    It's also wrong as how can you get the colour right if the milk is there...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    Your fellow Cambridge alumnus Guy Burgess had F&M hampers sent regularly to Russia.
    I absolutely love the fact they have a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras station.

    Makes my trips from Sheffield to London all the better
    When heading North my journey from Kings Cross underground is via St Pancras, Fortnums -> Hatchards -> Kings Cross -> Train..
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    You don't have to actually use any pencils. It's just an expensive desk ornament.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,351

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    I am sure it was a lovely paper weight. I am a bit nostalgic seeing it, as I say, we definitely had ones very very similar to those at school.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 92,351
    edited May 25

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    It's funny how listing the all the goods resonates more than just a monetary figure.
    Its one thing getting yourself a nice sport car, perhaps some nice holidays and trips to fancy restaurants, even the £5k coffee machine. But a manual pencil sharpner....
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445

    Good afternoon

    On topic I doubt it, but what a sorry mess Murrell has landed his ex wife Sturgeon in and the wider SNP movement

    Swinney has just been asked if the SNP will repay the money and he fudged the answer

    I expect if I had arrived on the drive with a £100,000+ campervan my good lady would have wanted to know how it was funded, and also the appearance of luxury items in their home

    No matter, it will be something she will be forever associated with fairly or not

    I have noticed an uptick in the polls for labour but a corresponding one, if not greater, for reform so I would caution that Burnham may not the shoe in some may expect but I hope I am wrong

    He may not be a shoe in but something's definitely afoot.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    It's funny how listing the all the goods resonates more than just a monetary figure.
    Its one thing getting yourself a nice sport car, perhaps some nice holidays and trips to fancy restaurants, even the £5k coffee machine. But a manual pencil sharpner....
    For me it's the Lalique salt and pepper grinders...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,699

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,399
    HYUFD said:

    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?

    Given Burnham would likely need the LDs that is unlikely to lead to hard left government
    If your perspective is rooted in Reformspace, Badenoch is hard left.

    As for the Reform-Restore rumble, it's Chesterton's guradrail in action. A guardrail is a type of fence, isn't it? Remove the taboo against right wing national populism and there's very little to stop you decending into actual hell. There will always be someone willing to outflank you.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,722

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Carpenters, tradespeople, architects, illustrators and artists to name a few ?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 3,604
    Message to SNP members is 'Nothing to see here. Independence will solve all problems'


    Peter Murrell’s guilty plea today confirms that the Scottish National Party has been the victim of embezzlement of hundreds of thousands of pounds of funds provided by SNP members.

    This is an admission of a terrible breach of trust and an overwhelming betrayal by the man entrusted to be the Party’s Chief Executive.

    Today, I share the overwhelming anger felt by all SNP members.

    I joined this party almost fifty years ago.

    In that time, I’ve campaigned alongside thousands of dedicated SNP activists.

    They worked hard to raise funds for this party, they campaigned tirelessly to deliver electoral success, and they have helped us become the party of government.

    Those are the people in my thoughts when I talk about betrayal.

    By embezzling from the SNP, Peter Murrell was stealing the hopes, the dreams and the aspirations of thousands of people all over Scotland

    People who gave what they could, over many years, in the hope that it would help contribute to a better country.

    So today, I am horrified. I am betrayed.

    But I am also resolute about the future.

    I returned to the SNP Leadership a couple of years ago because I could see that the party that I loved was not in the best place.

    I promised that we would get back on track.

    A key part of that has been the process to strengthen our governance structures and party finances.

    That has been an ongoing process over a number of years.

    The party now has a modernised backroom operation which, as we saw in the election result, is highly effective at supporting campaigning around the country.

    The SNP is resolutely focused on the priorities of the people of Scotland, and our new government is hitting the ground running.

    We are the party on Scotland’s side. We are taking action on the cost of living, improving our NHS and we are determined – more than ever – to lead Scotland to a brighter, independent future.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 129,780

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Carpenters, tradespeople, architects, illustrators and artists to name a few ?
    My tradesman/carpenters/architect all use iPads.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,830

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    Your fellow Cambridge alumnus Guy Burgess had F&M hampers sent regularly to Russia.
    I absolutely love the fact they have a Fortnum & Mason in St Pancras station.

    Makes my trips from Sheffield to London all the better
    Better still, they have a Greggs.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,695

    As somebody who regularly uses Fortnum & Mason I can say the advent calendars (and hampers) make excellent gifts.

    I like Fortnums a lot. It's a genuinely classy establishment, unlike the ghastly Harrods. I was searching for a bottle of Benedictine high and low across London a couple of years ago, in order to make a Bobby Burns cocktail on 25th January, and Fortnums had it in their excellent bottle shop. There was no massive markup on it either, comparing it to prices I had seen online. And everyone in the shop was lovely. I also love their biscuits.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    Battlebus said:

    Message to SNP members is 'Nothing to see here. Independence will solve all problems'


    Peter Murrell’s guilty plea today confirms that the Scottish National Party has been the victim of embezzlement of hundreds of thousands of pounds of funds provided by SNP members.

    This is an admission of a terrible breach of trust and an overwhelming betrayal by the man entrusted to be the Party’s Chief Executive.

    Today, I share the overwhelming anger felt by all SNP members.

    I joined this party almost fifty years ago.

    In that time, I’ve campaigned alongside thousands of dedicated SNP activists.

    They worked hard to raise funds for this party, they campaigned tirelessly to deliver electoral success, and they have helped us become the party of government.

    Those are the people in my thoughts when I talk about betrayal.

    By embezzling from the SNP, Peter Murrell was stealing the hopes, the dreams and the aspirations of thousands of people all over Scotland

    People who gave what they could, over many years, in the hope that it would help contribute to a better country.

    So today, I am horrified. I am betrayed.

    But I am also resolute about the future.

    I returned to the SNP Leadership a couple of years ago because I could see that the party that I loved was not in the best place.

    I promised that we would get back on track.

    A key part of that has been the process to strengthen our governance structures and party finances.

    That has been an ongoing process over a number of years.

    The party now has a modernised backroom operation which, as we saw in the election result, is highly effective at supporting campaigning around the country.

    The SNP is resolutely focused on the priorities of the people of Scotland, and our new government is hitting the ground running.

    We are the party on Scotland’s side. We are taking action on the cost of living, improving our NHS and we are determined – more than ever – to lead Scotland to a brighter, independent future.
    There are five fingers.
  • The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    Don't be silly, how can you deface archive documents with a camera?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,608

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Polling stations.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Carpenters, tradespeople, architects, illustrators and artists to name a few ?
    My tradesman/carpenters/architect all use iPads.
    Which app do they use to mark up timber for cutting?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 104,608
    edited May 25
    ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    Usually that is at a cost I believe, though not a high one, when allowed (I assume some things it is not permitted for)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,830

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    According to the old joke, mathematicians with constipation.


    (He worked it out with a pencil.)
  • eek said:

    Whatever you say about Peter Murrells he knew a good coffee machine when he saw one. For £5,700 it must have been damn fine coffee.

    We have a similarly expensive machine at work.

    The biggest employee unhappiness issue was when I hired a milk in firster.

    People who drink tea/coffee are not to be riled, something as a non tea/coffee drinker boss I have learned to my cost.
    I seem to remember milk in first was only because it killed some of the bacteria and protected the porcelain china..

    It's also wrong as how can you get the colour right if the milk is there...
    Actually the rule was you should always put the tea in first. That way you would know if the kitchen maids were washing the porcelain china properly.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,695

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Carpenters, tradespeople, architects, illustrators and artists to name a few ?
    My tradesman/carpenters/architect all use iPads.
    Which app do they use to mark up timber for cutting?
    X?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    Usually that is at a cost I believe, though not a high one, when allowed (I assume some things it is not permitted for)
    Nobody's ever tried to stop me using a camera, but then I suppose I do mostly use national rather than local archives.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,256
    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    Message to SNP members is 'Nothing to see here. Independence will solve all problems'


    Peter Murrell’s guilty plea today confirms that the Scottish National Party has been the victim of embezzlement of hundreds of thousands of pounds of funds provided by SNP members.

    This is an admission of a terrible breach of trust and an overwhelming betrayal by the man entrusted to be the Party’s Chief Executive.

    Today, I share the overwhelming anger felt by all SNP members.

    I joined this party almost fifty years ago.

    In that time, I’ve campaigned alongside thousands of dedicated SNP activists.

    They worked hard to raise funds for this party, they campaigned tirelessly to deliver electoral success, and they have helped us become the party of government.

    Those are the people in my thoughts when I talk about betrayal.

    By embezzling from the SNP, Peter Murrell was stealing the hopes, the dreams and the aspirations of thousands of people all over Scotland

    People who gave what they could, over many years, in the hope that it would help contribute to a better country.

    So today, I am horrified. I am betrayed.

    But I am also resolute about the future.

    I returned to the SNP Leadership a couple of years ago because I could see that the party that I loved was not in the best place.

    I promised that we would get back on track.

    A key part of that has been the process to strengthen our governance structures and party finances.

    That has been an ongoing process over a number of years.

    The party now has a modernised backroom operation which, as we saw in the election result, is highly effective at supporting campaigning around the country.

    The SNP is resolutely focused on the priorities of the people of Scotland, and our new government is hitting the ground running.

    We are the party on Scotland’s side. We are taking action on the cost of living, improving our NHS and we are determined – more than ever – to lead Scotland to a brighter, independent future.
    There are five fingers...
    ...but only four lights.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,877

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Faber-Castell make about 2 billion pencils per year. I use pencils all the time. They are used by people who know how to write. Someone needs to tell Mr Murrell that sharpeners can be had on the open market for about £1.

    Pencils are essentially free. Like coat hangers they breed. I never buy them and have hundreds. I am waiting for the fraud squad to demand an explanation.

    (Pencil drawing must be one of the most under rated art forms of all. Wonderful. Sadly I am no good.)
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 23,399

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    People who need to rub out answers.

    This is usually for innocent reasons- like tired physics teachers who need a couple of goes at a problem to iron out all the mistakes.

    I'm sure that there's an innocent reason in this case as well. Must be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,616

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Sharpened pencils for use at the bookies? Imagine double parking the badboy Winnebago outside a branch of Ladbrokes. You'd be ticketed in a moment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 80,205
    edited May 25
    algarkirk said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Faber-Castell make about 2 billion pencils per year. I use pencils all the time. They are used by people who know how to write. Someone needs to tell Mr Murrell that sharpeners can be had on the open market for about £1.

    Pencils are essentially free. Like coat hangers they breed. I never buy them and have hundreds. I am waiting for the fraud squad to demand an explanation.

    (Pencil drawing must be one of the most under rated art forms of all. Wonderful. Sadly I am no good.)
    Your anecdote about pencils breeding is interesting, but I'd say the detail is a bit sketchy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,709
    FPT

    On EU law, Spain have built railways since the supposed EU environmental laws came in.

    Just legislate that we approve a railway and it can’t be challenged. It gets built and job done.

    Here is the supposed EU environental laws for you - happy reading.

    https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/nature-and-biodiversity/habitats-directive_en

    It also makes me laugh how the people here who are most critical of Faragist charlatanry and ill-preparedness for government are the most gung ho about 'Just ignore the damn regulations!!' - I mean really guys, pick a lane.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,256
    ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    Archivists/researchers authorised to view documentation above a certain security/confidentiality level are stripped of all such devices before entering the room. They are given the pencil and sheets of paper, and they are counted when you come out.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,877
    kle4 said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Polling stations.
    The stubby pencil on a piece of string is the sacrament and symbol of democracy, as the dogs waiting outside the polling station are its guardians.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 29,256

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 17,877
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Faber-Castell make about 2 billion pencils per year. I use pencils all the time. They are used by people who know how to write. Someone needs to tell Mr Murrell that sharpeners can be had on the open market for about £1.

    Pencils are essentially free. Like coat hangers they breed. I never buy them and have hundreds. I am waiting for the fraud squad to demand an explanation.

    (Pencil drawing must be one of the most under rated art forms of all. Wonderful. Sadly I am no good.)
    Your anecdote about pencils breeding is interesting, but I'd say the detail is a bit sketchy.
    It's a mystery. BTW, another use for pencils is for annotating books. Only a barbarian does this with ink.

    (TSE will now ask: What is a book?)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,928

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Only utter pencil cases.
  • ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    When they are allowed, I do. But you still have to make lists of things seen etc etc, write up the call cards and write out the copyright declarations. IN practice the pencils offered at Record Offices are too soft and always blunt so I use cheap plastic propelling pencils which have much finer points. If as I do you take 300 or 400 photos in a day you absolutely need to keep a detailed record of what the photos are of.

    Shoutout to the staff at Wakefield History Centre who are fantastic. Call down to the Archives in Kendal where the remaining staff do their best but the service has been destroyed firstly by Cumbria and then by Westmorland and Furness
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 20,005

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Carpenters, tradespeople, architects, illustrators and artists to name a few ?
    My tradesman/carpenters/architect all use iPads.
    None of them of them Leonardo obviously.

    I just went to an interesting talk on this. The suggestion is that Leonardo was only able to develop his ideas thanks to the recent invention of cheap paper. He produced at least 5000 pages of doodles. No-one was able to ideate in this way before due to the expense of parchment and you also wouldn't work this way now.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,928

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Indeed. Who uses a pencil in this day and age when you can use one of these?:


    Both legitimate murder weapons in the right hands.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 8,537
    Didn’t Nicola Sturgeon wonder how her husband could afford so many luxury items ?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,938

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    £127 on Amazon
    They won't have saved much rainforest for £127.

    Still, it's the thought, eh?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 40,616
    400 grand over 12 years is only 3 or 4 grand extra every month, so a couple extra nights out at Frankie and Benny's or a Winnebago parked on the drive aren't easily noticed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,938
    algarkirk said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Faber-Castell make about 2 billion pencils per year. I use pencils all the time. They are used by people who know how to write. Someone needs to tell Mr Murrell that sharpeners can be had on the open market for about £1.

    Pencils are essentially free. Like coat hangers they breed. I never buy them and have hundreds. I am waiting for the fraud squad to demand an explanation.

    (Pencil drawing must be one of the most under rated art forms of all. Wonderful. Sadly I am no good.)
    Your anecdote about pencils breeding is interesting, but I'd say the detail is a bit sketchy.
    It's a mystery. BTW, another use for pencils is for annotating books. Only a barbarian does this with ink.

    (TSE will now ask: What is a book?)
    (It's a thing you buy from a car boot sale.

    Using coins.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,928

    FPT

    On EU law, Spain have built railways since the supposed EU environmental laws came in.

    Just legislate that we approve a railway and it can’t be challenged. It gets built and job done.

    Here is the supposed EU environental laws for you - happy reading.

    https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/nature-and-biodiversity/habitats-directive_en

    It also makes me laugh how the people here who are most critical of Faragist charlatanry and ill-preparedness for government are the most gung ho about 'Just ignore the damn regulations!!' - I mean really guys, pick a lane.
    Strawmanning again. Lucky.
    The thing about both the bat tunnel and £70m nuclear power plant fish disco is that neither are required under EU regs; they represent a disproportionate response to achieving species protection.

    The emotive arguments on both sides are no doubt a lot of fun, but a very large proportion of them could be avoided by a more pragmatic approach.

    The UK is particularly bad at that, for some reason.

    (Note btw that the link you paste includes detail on the EU having a look at the regs to see if they can make them more pragmatic.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 34,045
    edited May 25
    kle4 said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Polling stations.
    I thought there was an issue around indelible pencil lack-of-supplies for polling stations, and the Electoral Commission not being up to speed and forgetting they exist?

    I have no idea where I saw the report.

    (Edit: Yes I do. Mark Pack blogged about it in 2016:
    https://www.markpack.org.uk/143476/indelible-pencils/ )
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 64,439

    eek said:

    Whatever you say about Peter Murrells he knew a good coffee machine when he saw one. For £5,700 it must have been damn fine coffee.

    We have a similarly expensive machine at work.

    The biggest employee unhappiness issue was when I hired a milk in firster.

    People who drink tea/coffee are not to be riled, something as a non tea/coffee drinker boss I have learned to my cost.
    I seem to remember milk in first was only because it killed some of the bacteria and protected the porcelain china..

    It's also wrong as how can you get the colour right if the milk is there...
    Actually the rule was you should always put the tea in first. That way you would know if the kitchen maids were washing the porcelain china properly.
    Boiling water - to warm and clean the china.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 90,928
    What are the odds on this ?

    It’s incredible that we’ve never had a Gen X president and if we play our cards right we can skip the paint chip generation entirely
    https://x.com/growing_daniel/status/2058469815950671899
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 21,699
    viewcode said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
    "Pencil" in Russian is "карандаш", or "karandash". Caran d'Ache were the first to get pencils to Russia, so that became the name, like a hoover, aspirin or escalator.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,681

    Good afternoon

    On topic I doubt it, but what a sorry mess Murrell has landed his ex wife Sturgeon in and the wider SNP movement

    Swinney has just been asked if the SNP will repay the money and he fudged the answer

    I expect if I had arrived on the drive with a £100,000+ campervan my good lady would have wanted to know how it was funded, and also the appearance of luxury items in their home

    No matter, it will be something she will be forever associated with fairly or not

    I have noticed an uptick in the polls for labour but a corresponding one, if not greater, for reform so I would caution that Burnham may not the shoe in some may expect but I hope I am wrong

    In my (admittedly limited) experience I've noticed two types of people who don't see what's under their noses, so to speak. One is the driven, utterly-focussed-on-their-objectives person; and the other is the the person who is so innocent/ignorant of the world that misconduct never occurs to them.
  • ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    Usually that is at a cost I believe, though not a high one, when allowed (I assume some things it is not permitted for)
    Nobody's ever tried to stop me using a camera, but then I suppose I do mostly use national rather than local archives.
    The costs have been more or less removed for some documents but not all. It used to cost about £2 a sheet to have it photocopied about 20 years ago so manual use of the Deeds Registry was the only way. But since Wakefield has allowed cameras, only four or five years ago I feel guilty that I can take 500 photos and only pay £10 for the day. Ironically at Wakefield usage is going up and so is income.

    Most of their customers apart from us researchers are trainee solicitors who pay a surcharge for having the copy authenticated. I did point out to one that it made more sense NOT to have them authenticated, calendar the images properly when at home, send the results to the other side and ask if there was anything they disputed. If there was then go back and get an authenticated copy and send the other side the bill.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,938
    I might be wrong. But I get the impression that once the penny dropped that the SNP had hasd (and lost) their one shot at independence for a generation - and that penny did indeed drop and a generation was twenty plus years - it was just a case of grift as much as you can, lads.The sheer scale at the top was probably not generally known, but nobody as going to rock the boat if they could grab a few hundred here and a grand there.

    The dream was gone. Their careers were now stuck in a system with Westminster as the top tier.

    There was no prospect of the huge scope for grift on a new national scale. So a whole lot of "fuck it" set in.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,858

    ydoethur said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Anyone who visits Archives and Record Offices on a regular basis such as myself. Taking a pen into the secure area is the wrongest of wrongs and would not be treated as casually as Mr Morrell's activities seem to have been
    Why don't you just take a camera?
    When they are allowed, I do. But you still have to make lists of things seen etc etc, write up the call cards and write out the copyright declarations. IN practice the pencils offered at Record Offices are too soft and always blunt so I use cheap plastic propelling pencils which have much finer points. If as I do you take 300 or 400 photos in a day you absolutely need to keep a detailed record of what the photos are of.

    Shoutout to the staff at Wakefield History Centre who are fantastic. Call down to the Archives in Kendal where the remaining staff do their best but the service has been destroyed firstly by Cumbria and then by Westmorland and Furness
    Just a minute - you have the National Pencil Museum in Keswick - why not ask them for some pencils - they give them away at the door.

    What do you call a man with a pencil on his head? "H.B"

    By the way, said museum suggests the humble British pencil won both world wars and the Cold War - apparently the British pencil has always been superior to the German pencil.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,858
    HYUFD said:

    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?

    Given Burnham would likely need the LDs that is unlikely to lead to hard left government
    I see you're still playing the old Tory game of claiming the LDs will always support Labour (2010-15 does suggest a different view).

    Well, let's play - I mean if he doesn't get a majority Farage can always on the Conservatives to prop up his Government, can't he?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,681

    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?

    What have I missed? It's the first suggestion I've seen that Mr Burnham would hold a GE if he became PM.
  • FPT

    On EU law, Spain have built railways since the supposed EU environmental laws came in.

    Just legislate that we approve a railway and it can’t be challenged. It gets built and job done.

    Here is the supposed EU environental laws for you - happy reading.

    https://environment.ec.europa.eu/topics/nature-and-biodiversity/habitats-directive_en

    It also makes me laugh how the people here who are most critical of Faragist charlatanry and ill-preparedness for government are the most gung ho about 'Just ignore the damn regulations!!' - I mean really guys, pick a lane.
    The point being made wasn’t to ignore any legislations but to make our own.

    Anyway, answer the point: how have Spain built a lot of high speed rail since this came in if it’s such a problem?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,073

    viewcode said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
    "Pencil" in Russian is "карандаш", or "karandash". Caran d'Ache were the first to get pencils to Russia, so that became the name, like a hoover, aspirin or escalator.
    What's the Russian for catastrophic defeat and the surrender of Moscow to a drone?
  • Sweeney74Sweeney74 Posts: 798

    Heh, Nicola Sturgeon dealing with her husband's finances.


    yes indeed, she was never short of a Montblanc pen to wave around in Holyrood.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    Nigelb said:

    What are the odds on this ?

    It’s incredible that we’ve never had a Gen X president and if we play our cards right we can skip the paint chip generation entirely
    https://x.com/growing_daniel/status/2058469815950671899

    High
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 60,314
    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
    "Pencil" in Russian is "карандаш", or "karandash". Caran d'Ache were the first to get pencils to Russia, so that became the name, like a hoover, aspirin or escalator.
    What's the Russian for catastrophic defeat and the surrender of Moscow to a drone?
    A smo.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,681

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Indeed. Who uses a pencil in this day and age when you can use one of these?:


    Beautiful sweet peas, too.
  • MattW said:

    kle4 said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Polling stations.
    I thought there was an issue around indelible pencil lack-of-supplies for polling stations, and the Electoral Commission not being up to speed and forgetting they exist?

    I have no idea where I saw the report.

    (Edit: Yes I do. Mark Pack blogged about it in 2016:
    https://www.markpack.org.uk/143476/indelible-pencils/ )
    One perversity of using pencils at polling stations is that you can immediately identify whether a vote was cast in person or by post. When people vote by post they write out the forms at home in pen.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    edited May 25
    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
    "Pencil" in Russian is "карандаш", or "karandash". Caran d'Ache were the first to get pencils to Russia, so that became the name, like a hoover, aspirin or escalator.
    What's the Russian for catastrophic defeat and the surrender of Moscow to a drone?
    Spetsoperatsiya

    Edit: beaten by @williamglenn
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,681

    My hatred of Rail Replacement Bus services is indescribable. It's like a personal insult.

    Like booking at the Premier Inn and being told, sorry, due to refurbishment works you actually have to spend the night in a cardboard box under the footbridge instead.

    For the same price.

    Those who run them always seem outraged that passengers have - you know - luggage.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 137,632
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?

    Given Burnham would likely need the LDs that is unlikely to lead to hard left government
    I see you're still playing the old Tory game of claiming the LDs will always support Labour (2010-15 does suggest a different view).

    Well, let's play - I mean if he doesn't get a majority Farage can always on the Conservatives to prop up his Government, can't he?
    The LDs will certainly support Labour over Reform, Farage is a totally different prospect to Cameron.

    The Conservatives certainly won't support Labour, they might support Reform but more likely would vote bill by bill
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,445
    AnneJGP said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    I am absolutely outraged, who the feck uses pencils in the 21st century?
    Indeed. Who uses a pencil in this day and age when you can use one of these?:


    Beautiful sweet peas, too.
    Thank you - the first ones from our new garden!
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,858
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Restore vs Reform war on Twitter suggests many possibilities:
    1) Restore talking absolute gash about their prospects to try and harm Reform as much as possible
    2) Restore actually harming Reform in Yarmouth-level numbers

    Either way us good news for Burnham.

    That tweet from Matt Badloser was prescient. If you vote Restore then Reform will lose and that means Burnham will win and then hold a GE and then Reform will lose and we're locked into "hard left" government until 2031.

    Reform chief thinker saying they would lose to Burnham. Which in itself feeds back into the "what's the point in compromising to voting Reform when you could have the Real Thing instead" piece. If Reform will lose, why waste your time with them?

    Given Burnham would likely need the LDs that is unlikely to lead to hard left government
    I see you're still playing the old Tory game of claiming the LDs will always support Labour (2010-15 does suggest a different view).

    Well, let's play - I mean if he doesn't get a majority Farage can always on the Conservatives to prop up his Government, can't he?
    The LDs will certainly support Labour over Reform, Farage is a totally different prospect to Cameron.

    The Conservatives certainly won't support Labour, they might support Reform but more likely would vote bill by bill
    The key, as you well know, is Confidence & Supply.

    Is it as likely the Conservatives would offer C&S to a minority Reform Government as it would for the LDs to offer C&S to a minority Labour Government?

    I think to assume that is to think simplisticly and what will happen after the votes have been counted could be very different.
  • eekeek Posts: 34,568

    My hatred of Rail Replacement Bus services is indescribable. It's like a personal insult.

    Like booking at the Premier Inn and being told, sorry, due to refurbishment works you actually have to spend the night in a cardboard box under the footbridge instead.

    For the same price.

    I'm in Liverpool weekend after next. To avoid a bus from Manchester to Leeds, I was offered a route via Doncaster that when I click purchase they refused to sell me. So I just bought separate tickets..
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 13,073

    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
    "Pencil" in Russian is "карандаш", or "karandash". Caran d'Ache were the first to get pencils to Russia, so that became the name, like a hoover, aspirin or escalator.
    What's the Russian for catastrophic defeat and the surrender of Moscow to a drone?
    Spetsoperatsiya

    Edit: beaten by @williamglenn
    Well, we now have both of the men who have their fingers on the destructive power to end us all lying their socks off, and hoping we won't notice. Could this end badly?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,693

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    It's funny how listing the all the goods resonates more than just a monetary figure.
    Its one thing getting yourself a nice sport car, perhaps some nice holidays and trips to fancy restaurants, even the £5k coffee machine. But a manual pencil sharpner....
    For me it's the Lalique salt and pepper grinders...
    I'd be worried about ground glass.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 60,545
    edited May 25
    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    The list showed he also paid £110 for a MANUAL pencil sharpener from the brand Caran d'Ache. Seems like he got a bargin they are now £200.

    They actually remind me of the ones we had a school.

    Do you know what the Russian for “pencil” is?
    Tank?
    "Pencil" in Russian is "карандаш", or "karandash". Caran d'Ache were the first to get pencils to Russia, so that became the name, like a hoover, aspirin or escalator.
    What's the Russian for catastrophic defeat and the surrender of Moscow to a drone?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Klushino
This discussion has been closed.